I have a friend, who recently turned 59, who invested in Magic as soon as unlimited came out. All his cards are his "retirement fund" and I was wondering. If you just take Power, what kind of interest has it been earning for the past 10 years? Is it better than a savings account? Is it better than mutual funds? I was just wondering what you guys have to say.
To some people who have enough money that they feel they don't need to save more, or people who are really into the game, would rather have P9. Note that P9 is always resellable, so it's more like an investment.
Hey, I'd have a set if I win the lottery..
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Last year at this time a Good condition Beta Black Lotus was selling for around $700-800 on Ebay.
Last month the average Ebay price for a non-graded Beta Black Lotus went over $1000. This includes cards that were so beat they HAD to be played in sleeves.
Given 25% appreciation per year, this is quite an investment. Consider that putting the same $800 in a regular savings account might net you a whopping $1.20 in interest.
When I bought my Unlimited Lotus around two years ago, I paid $315 for it and now ones in similar condition are going for $600 to $700. That's not to say that they'll keep doubling in price every two years but until they stop printing Magic and everyone in the world loses interest, they're a pretty sound investment.
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"...because without beer, things do not seem to go as well."
That's Right. A guy here was selling a PLAYSET (4 cards of each.... 36 total) of the P9 so high that the store owner asked him if he was joking. Also, the card condition is what I call "poorest of the poor".
P9 has consistently gone up in value over time. Few investments have such a proven track record. There's a high cost associated with buying in now, and no ones knows when, where, and if the market will ceiling. I know my P9 has more than doubled in value in the about 2+1/2 years I've had it, and that's a better rate of return than any other investment I have.
Interesting story related to this: a friend of mine worked for MicroProse when they made the original Magic computer game. As a thank-you to the folks who worked on the game, WOTC gave them unopened boxes of Beta, Arabian Nights, and Antiquities. My friend sat on them for a few years, then sold off his haul to put a down payment on a house and buy two cars. He'd get even more today if he still had them, of course...
Well, if like me you started at the beginning and could buy mint Beta moxes/lotuses for 5$ then yes it's a wonderful investment
Now though I would say a High yield ISA would beat it, .... just
This is one of the things about being a collector. How much value will they gain over time. In a bank you are promised a certain amount with little change and little risk. Collecting cards has more risk so more return. Not saying the P9 will be reprinted but with other cards that face that risk a reprint will hurt value. Also you face the problem what if no one plays mtg in 10 years what you pay $300 today will sell for $50. Broken cards get fixed, banned, and restricted which changes value. The biggest factor is not how much your guides tell you how much a card is worth but how much a person will pay for it. At some point the P9 will top off and not increase in value because it would cost too much and its value will drop after awhile it will pick up again but it would make a comeback and maybe become more valuable than before and then peak again. Also don't forget a card in say New York will sell for more than in Kentucky because of the price of living is different.
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first turn
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
At this point in time, I'd say the Unlimited P9 cards are worth more than earning interest at a bank or other investment place. Still though, we're talking only around $4,000 if it is a near mint set of ungraded P9. That really isn't much money as far as retirement goes. I'm guessing he has 5-plus sets of P9 cards though? Then we're talking some serious dough.
I forsee graded Unlimited Black Lotuses going up around $80-$100 a year at this point. Ancestral, Sapphire and Jet going up $55-$65 a year. And the rest going up $35-50 a year.
The market is finicky though as others have said. I'm a bit pessimistic on collectible values, especially after the comic book market crashed. It is very possible Magic will continue for another 10-plus years and keep climbing in value. Of course with all of the new Magic sets being 99% garbage, it is no surprise that Power 9 cards keep climbing in value.
well, old magic cards are worth collecting, and it's really a good investment. I mean why would u open a saving account and only get so little interest rate. Also, u have to report that to the IRS. So not much gain from saving account.
This is really not a sound investment. It is comparable to the comic book boom of the ninties. People thought that buying comic books had a guarnteed return. But the reason that these things are so valuable was because of the number of them printed. Now that the prices of old comics has capped off, magic invertors should look at this as a comparison.
So unless wizards decides to make a vintage ptq season, don't look for these to keep growing in price.
This is really not a sound investment. It is comparable to the comic book boom of the ninties. People thought that buying comic books had a guarnteed return. But the reason that these things are so valuable was because of the number of them printed. Now that the prices of old comics has capped off, magic invertors should look at this as a comparison.
So unless wizards decides to make a vintage ptq season, don't look for these to keep growing in price.
actually with the popularity of t1 tournements right now i would have to say that they are indeed a great investment as if u invest now and sell later you will make a good chunk of change
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Spread the word.
Let's assume that your 59-year-old friend thinks that pieces of cardboard are really going to fund his retirement. Presuming that he retires at 65, and lives to be 80 (the average life expectancy in 2002 was 77), he'll need a good 15 years to fund in order to avoid living in a cardboard box.
Assuming he paid $5 a piece for each card (from Belgareth's example), that's a $45 investment. Now, going by the first source I could find that prices the Power Nine (I Googled it -- http://www.trollandtoad.com/Magic-The-Gathering-Cards/1454-1041p1n10.html), they're charging a whopping $8,460 for a single set of one card each. That's a difference of $8,415. Since I'm as skilled with math as I am at quantum physics, we'll just divide that by 10, and say that the set, rounded up evenly, gained a grand total of $841.50 a year, over the last ten years. Keep in mind that the website I referenced was only the first I could find, is a store that sells cards rather than an impartial pricing source, that I have no way of knowing how many cards your friend has, if he even has a full Power Nine set, or if he has multiples of different cards.
Now, let's say that instead of making one $45 dollar purchase, he put that $45 into a healthy growth-stock mutual fund, which earned him an average of 12% annually. Are the numbers as equally impressive? Unfortunately not -- over 10 years, that fund will earn him a total of $139.75, rounded to the nearest decimal point. That's only after a single $45 investment, without adding to the fund whatsoever, and it still earned him nearly three times his first, single payment.
But, let's say that your friend took retirement seriously, and invested $45 each month, for a whole year, and then stopped investing money. That's $1,677.18 after ten years. $45 every month for ten years straight? Up to $10,613.52.
People plan for retirement over decades, not years. Those amounts were just after ten years of investment, rather than twenty, or thirty, or fifty. And that's in cold hard cash, too. One freak fire, and your friend's $8,000 cards might as well be fertilizer. Plus, I don't think that the Realtor in sunny South Florida is going to be too keen on getting that crisp, right-out-of-the-wrapper Mox Sapphire for that beachfront vacation home.
LSK, you can't make the argument over magic card prices dropping so drastically by comparing it to Pokemon or even Yu gi Oh. The reason is that those two TCGs were fads(pokemon more than yu gi oh) and the demand for the cards was mainlky just for sheer fanaticism. The difference w/ those TCG's and Magic is that magic runs FAR many more tournaments where players can win money and prizes. Magic card prices will never drop as much as Pokemon or other TCG's because it is not a fad, it is a hobby that has been able to hold itself up for over ten years.
Just a comment, a bank account only needs the account number and you're good to go. Your investment is already protected even if the bank is robbed.
Now with P9, it's a risky and dangerous investment.
If other people know that you have such expensive cards, you're bound to be on the edge protecting your investments.
Unless you have the cards insured, you don't get anything back if they get stolen.
I would suggest that investing on P9 would be worth it IF it's not where ALL your money goes.
And another thing, these cards should be graded!
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Cards are only worth what people will pay for them.
With the recent move to 10 proxies, and the DCI's support of Legacy, it's clear that Vintage's fate is left to that of only the Vintage communtiy to keep alive.
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Hey, I'd have a set if I win the lottery..
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Last month the average Ebay price for a non-graded Beta Black Lotus went over $1000. This includes cards that were so beat they HAD to be played in sleeves.
Given 25% appreciation per year, this is quite an investment. Consider that putting the same $800 in a regular savings account might net you a whopping $1.20 in interest.
Interesting story related to this: a friend of mine worked for MicroProse when they made the original Magic computer game. As a thank-you to the folks who worked on the game, WOTC gave them unopened boxes of Beta, Arabian Nights, and Antiquities. My friend sat on them for a few years, then sold off his haul to put a down payment on a house and buy two cars. He'd get even more today if he still had them, of course...
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I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
You officially suck.
Can I have one?
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
I forsee graded Unlimited Black Lotuses going up around $80-$100 a year at this point. Ancestral, Sapphire and Jet going up $55-$65 a year. And the rest going up $35-50 a year.
The market is finicky though as others have said. I'm a bit pessimistic on collectible values, especially after the comic book market crashed. It is very possible Magic will continue for another 10-plus years and keep climbing in value. Of course with all of the new Magic sets being 99% garbage, it is no surprise that Power 9 cards keep climbing in value.
So unless wizards decides to make a vintage ptq season, don't look for these to keep growing in price.
actually with the popularity of t1 tournements right now i would have to say that they are indeed a great investment as if u invest now and sell later you will make a good chunk of change
Spread the word.
Assuming he paid $5 a piece for each card (from Belgareth's example), that's a $45 investment. Now, going by the first source I could find that prices the Power Nine (I Googled it -- http://www.trollandtoad.com/Magic-The-Gathering-Cards/1454-1041p1n10.html), they're charging a whopping $8,460 for a single set of one card each. That's a difference of $8,415. Since I'm as skilled with math as I am at quantum physics, we'll just divide that by 10, and say that the set, rounded up evenly, gained a grand total of $841.50 a year, over the last ten years. Keep in mind that the website I referenced was only the first I could find, is a store that sells cards rather than an impartial pricing source, that I have no way of knowing how many cards your friend has, if he even has a full Power Nine set, or if he has multiples of different cards.
Now, let's say that instead of making one $45 dollar purchase, he put that $45 into a healthy growth-stock mutual fund, which earned him an average of 12% annually. Are the numbers as equally impressive? Unfortunately not -- over 10 years, that fund will earn him a total of $139.75, rounded to the nearest decimal point. That's only after a single $45 investment, without adding to the fund whatsoever, and it still earned him nearly three times his first, single payment.
But, let's say that your friend took retirement seriously, and invested $45 each month, for a whole year, and then stopped investing money. That's $1,677.18 after ten years. $45 every month for ten years straight? Up to $10,613.52.
People plan for retirement over decades, not years. Those amounts were just after ten years of investment, rather than twenty, or thirty, or fifty. And that's in cold hard cash, too. One freak fire, and your friend's $8,000 cards might as well be fertilizer. Plus, I don't think that the Realtor in sunny South Florida is going to be too keen on getting that crisp, right-out-of-the-wrapper Mox Sapphire for that beachfront vacation home.
Gotta stop now... My head hurts...
Now with P9, it's a risky and dangerous investment.
If other people know that you have such expensive cards, you're bound to be on the edge protecting your investments.
Unless you have the cards insured, you don't get anything back if they get stolen.
I would suggest that investing on P9 would be worth it IF it's not where ALL your money goes.
And another thing, these cards should be graded!
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
otan: Agreed to. Grade 'em. I once saw a graded FOIL Gerrard Capashen though.
With the recent move to 10 proxies, and the DCI's support of Legacy, it's clear that Vintage's fate is left to that of only the Vintage communtiy to keep alive.
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