I can name 13 constructed playable cards right off the top of my head from that set, and many more that I'm not sure will be good. To compare: Legions had maybe 3, Scourge had about the same number... What is wrong with you people?
The fact that of your 13 playable Constructed cards, 2-3 will be the only ones to see play outside of Block Constructed. And of those 2-3, maybe 1 will be in a Tier 1 deck.
The fact that of your 13 playable Constructed cards, 2-3 will be the only ones to see play outside of Block Constructed. And of those 2-3, maybe 1 will be in a Tier 1 deck.
I call bull****. Frostling, the white and black shoals, the red and green Genjus are almost guaranteed to see play outside of block. And have you seen Hokori in the new White Weenie builds? And what about Horobi's Whisper?
I like BoK and the whole ChK block so far... no need to be agressive like this... eventualy people will wise up to it... like they did the new card face...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I call bull****. Frostling, the white and black shoals, the red and green Genjus are almost guaranteed to see play outside of block. And have you seen Hokori in the new White Weenie builds? And what about Horobi's Whisper?
1. Frostling - Strictly inferior to Mogg Fanatic. Type 2 Red Decks won't use it, as frankly, Type 2 Red Decks are not playable.
2. Shining Shoal - It's a crapped up Kor Chant. There's no use for damage redirects in Standard at the moment, really.
4. Genju of the Spires - Type 2 Red Decks won't use it, as frankly, Type 2 Red Decks are not playable.
5. Genju of the (Green thing) - A 4/4 just doesn't cut it in Type 2 unless it's called Myr Enforcer.
6. Hokori, Dust Drinker - Too slow to work. Affinity beats the snot out of it (Afterall, it can play around Energy Flux) and Tooth and Nail'll win before the card gets cast. UG Counters it, and BG kills it.
Of course, most of this is Type 2... Once Mirrodin block leaves, expect a number of the above to see play.
Edit - I don't mind the set, especially the flavor. He just wanted to know why we think it sucks.. I'm a major Type 2 player, and BoK offers nothing to me...
I play fristling... see my R/G build in Casual T2... :/ (I play type to decks... but I usuly keep my fav deck around of the time when I played it as a keep sake...) and miro just needs to die... the only thing about it that I like was cloud... I like killing things...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I think its a great set personally. I'll tell you what's happening: The people will whine and ***** until the pros break the set and then they'll realize how much potential it has. It never fails. You've probably been around the online Magic community long enough to see that people ***** about every new set that comes out. It's basically because of what I said. The average magic player, it seems, is too lazy to find out what's really good or really not, they wait until someone else does it for them unless is extremely obvious (like Affinity), and then that way they can copy off of it. The power level and playability level of Betrayers is the same level as every other set that's come out since Apocalypse. Most of the arguments against it come from people who probably netdeck the most. I bet if you ask them what they play they'll say T&N or Affinity I personally am using Genju of the Falls, Disrupting Shoal, and Quash in my counter-control deck and it works better than it ever has. I have about 20 or so cards on my list, but I decided I'm going to collect a playset of Betrayers, or a foil set, whichever comes first Just ignore people *****ing, ignorance is something we can't help Besides, Mirrodin rolls out in October, and with the ****heads at R&D doing nothing about Affinity no one can say Betrayers is bad until Affinity rolls out and cards that normally wouldn't see use with Mirrodin in T2 will get to shine.
At least from a Standard viewpoint, I think Kamigawa block in general only looks worse than it is because of the power level disparity caused by Mirrodin block. I bet that Kamigawa cards will see a lot more play come next rotation.
4. Genju of the Spires - Type 2 Red Decks won't use it, as frankly, Type 2 Red Decks are not playable.
5. Genju of the (Green thing) - A 4/4 just doesn't cut it in Type 2 unless it's called Myr Enforcer.
6. Hokori, Dust Drinker - Too slow to work. Affinity beats the snot out of it (Afterall, it can play around Energy Flux) and Tooth and Nail'll win before the card gets cast. UG Counters it, and BG kills it.
Of course, most of this is Type 2... Once Mirrodin block leaves, expect a number of the above to see play.
Edit - I don't mind the set, especially the flavor. He just wanted to know why we think it sucks.. I'm a major Type 2 player, and BoK offers nothing to me...
1) Yes, it's strictly inferior to Fanatic. Derf derf. Do you refuse to play card draw because it's inferior to Ancestral? For the limited time before 1x rotates, RDW will play BOTH. Think about it: how useful is its ability to hit players vs. its ability to kill things? Oh, and Type 2 red decks aren't playable? Have you NEVER heard of Big Red? Or Ponza?
3) Again, let's compare. Terror: 2 mana. Rend X: 3 mana. Shoal: 0 mana. Terror: kills 1/2 of creatures in the environment. Rend X: ditto. Shoal: kills everything. Yup, they sure are superior!
4) Derf derf what's sligh derf derf. This thing is equal to or superior to Ball Lightning in manymanymany situations.
5) That statement should have "...for 9 months" at the end of it. Oh, and didn't it ever occur to you that this is a recuring answer to Enforcer?
6) Tooth and Nail wins turn 3 or 4 every game? Damn. What build of Tooth are you using? Come on, give up your tech!
Edit: read Xen's post. What he said. Yeah, it offers "nothing" to t2 because the pros haven't used it yet.
If a deck can't prevent T&N from winning on 3 or 4 everygame it should be burned, pissed on, and fed to a rabid porcupine, especially with the new addition of Sowing Salts to the format.
If a deck can't prevent T&N from winning on 3 or 4 everygame it should be burned, pissed on, and fed to a rabid porcupine, especially with the new addition of Sowing Salts to the format.
I'm clueless as to how Tooth wins turn 3 in the first place.
I tihnk the Genjus have something coming for them. Maybe even the Shoals could be good if they were used well. The reprinted quash cycle is decent enough. I also think that both Tendo Ice Bridge and God's Eye, Gate to Reikai could have some potential. Heck, who knows, a Ninja deck could become quite effective in a few months.
5. Genju of the (Green thing) - A 4/4 just doesn't cut it in Type 2 unless it's called Myr Enforcer.
What about kumano and mephidross vampire?
Also, affinity is not all that good. Tooth and blue decks are harder to deal with. I'm about to get burned at the stake for saying that.
Anyways, i see the following playable cards, but i have not taken a very good look at the set yet.
I tihnk the Genjus have something coming for them. Maybe even the Shoals could be good if they were used well. The reprinted quash cycle is decent enough. I also think that both Tendo Ice Bridge and God's Eye, Gate to Reikai could have some potential. Heck, who knows, a Ninja deck could become quite effective in a few months.
I effectively use Mistblade Shinobi in my Counter-Control deck as one of the only two creatures in it, with Ninja of the Deep Hours on sideboard.
As for T&N, there must be some Super Secret Tech because as kingcobweb said I don't see how it wins on turn 3 or 4 either. At this point the deck should move about the speed of a sloth. Black can eliminate every one of it's forests with Erradicate and any land animator, red can take out it's Cloudposts or Urzatron, blue can Quash the T&N and bounce the creatures back or counter the spells. Seriously, T&N sucks. Actually....never use it to try and make a point again or be burned at the stake.
[edit] Funnily enough I was typing this at the same time NotALlama was. *fabricates a can of gasoline and a match* here's Xenny!!! :imp:
Frankly, I tend to agree with the pessimistic half about BoK, but that doesn't mean that there aren't unseen gems people have passed up. Shining Shoal is a monocolor Capt.'s Maneuver that's pitchable. Blazing Shoal and Frosty the Burnman could push those "Unplayable" red decks over the edge. As somebody above said, Gods' Eye screams "broken combo." I do, however, firmly feel the WW gains nothing at all from this set; 4 mana for a bad Winter Orb isn't my idea of a good WW card. Sickening Shoal isn't great(2 for 1 kill is bad, usually), but Eradicate and the "control a swamp" killspell can be interesting. Ninja of Deep hours seems like the best card in the set at this point, perhaps in some kind of T2 tempo deck. And Shuriken = The COOLEST equipment ever, if not the best.
I'll forgive that offense this time, and this time only...
I've done extensive playtesting with the red Genju, and it seems to be a pretty viable card, decent against everything but Ravager.
Duh Sowing Salts is going into the sideboard for Tooth, but that's the only thing it's good for. Still better than Blood Moon though because Salts actually has sortof a use against Ravager as well.
Basically though, it's been my experience that against most tier 1 matchups, ponza pwns. The only thing i've had a problem with is b/g cloud.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-banner by Dementia Blader, avatar by Zoobamaphooza
Just remember everyone, all the not-efficient-enough cards and the ones that are just below the standard for... uh... Standard, there's a good chance that they'll still get used in Limited.
Hmm... yeah, all you people are only talking about Constructed! Talk about Limited too! Limited is more fun anyway.
i loved darksteel...but i love betrayers even more. seriously i havnt been this excited for a set since like...ever. many many moon ago.
i also would have to say that i dont agree with most of butte blues analizations of the cards listed. also what i dont get is how you defend the fact that betrayers isnt a good set, yet its your favorite set in your profile? then you say you are heavy type 2, so u shoudl like sets with type 2 playable cards shoudlnt you? and you say there is maybe ONE constructed type 2 playable card in the set? thats odd. maybe im just dumb, but im pretty sure BoK will have a bigger impact on standard then you think. no offense but just a question, how many set realeases have you been around for butteblues??
Everybody is tired of playing or playing against Ravager. They want it to be overtaken. It is not fun to play or play against, they had hopes for that blue hoser and Imi Statue but they ultimately been crushed by the brute power we know as Ravager.
As for Decay and Cloud, I heard that Tier 2 decks are svg tech.
Oh wait. I mean unplayable crap. Sorry.
And Trini is, as you said, only good out of Standard, and the Tangle pule and Pristine angel are really bad, sry. Also, we're not in Block anymore, Furnace Dragon is not just bad, it's horrendous againt anything but affinity, and welcome to "The metagme is not affinity"land.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Oxidize. Yeah, that's a good card. The other cards? their only true use is being contorted into such a shape as to prevent my valuable cards from being damaged in shipping.
As for Decay and Cloud, I heard that Tier 2 decks are svg tech.
Oh wait. I mean unplayable crap. Sorry.
And Trini is, as you said, only good out of Standard, and the Tangle pule and Pristine angel are really bad, sry. Also, we're not in Block anymore, Furnace Dragon is not just bad, it's horrendous againt anything but affinity, and welcome to "The metagme is not affinity"land.
But you hit 5. Props to that, I guess.
I still say BoK has more potential.
EDIT:
Oh yeah, I forgot about Oxidize. Yeah, that's a good card. The other cards? their only true use is being contorted into such a shape as to prevent my valuable cards from being damaged in shipping.
cloud and decay are unhplayable crap eh??? tangle and angel arn't bad either. many control decks with white run pristine....
however, that being said, i 100% agree wioth you plastik, that BoK DOES have more potential than darksteel.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Banner by Alex.
MEGAMATT
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
What is wrong with you people?
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
1. Frostling - Strictly inferior to Mogg Fanatic. Type 2 Red Decks won't use it, as frankly, Type 2 Red Decks are not playable.
2. Shining Shoal - It's a crapped up Kor Chant. There's no use for damage redirects in Standard at the moment, really.
3. Sickening Shoal - Terror... Rend Flesh... Both are superior.
4. Genju of the Spires - Type 2 Red Decks won't use it, as frankly, Type 2 Red Decks are not playable.
5. Genju of the (Green thing) - A 4/4 just doesn't cut it in Type 2 unless it's called Myr Enforcer.
6. Hokori, Dust Drinker - Too slow to work. Affinity beats the snot out of it (Afterall, it can play around Energy Flux) and Tooth and Nail'll win before the card gets cast. UG Counters it, and BG kills it.
Of course, most of this is Type 2... Once Mirrodin block leaves, expect a number of the above to see play.
Edit - I don't mind the set, especially the flavor. He just wanted to know why we think it sucks.. I'm a major Type 2 player, and BoK offers nothing to me...
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
-Xen.
(Also known as Xenphire)
1) Yes, it's strictly inferior to Fanatic. Derf derf. Do you refuse to play card draw because it's inferior to Ancestral? For the limited time before 1x rotates, RDW will play BOTH. Think about it: how useful is its ability to hit players vs. its ability to kill things? Oh, and Type 2 red decks aren't playable? Have you NEVER heard of Big Red? Or Ponza?
2) "Crapped up." Crapped? Let's compare, shall we? Kor Chant: 3 mana. Shoal: 0. Chant: redirects creature-creature. Shoal: redirects creature-creature, creature-player, player-creature or player-player. Hmmm. Really crapped up, isn't it?
3) Again, let's compare. Terror: 2 mana. Rend X: 3 mana. Shoal: 0 mana. Terror: kills 1/2 of creatures in the environment. Rend X: ditto. Shoal: kills everything. Yup, they sure are superior!
4) Derf derf what's sligh derf derf. This thing is equal to or superior to Ball Lightning in manymanymany situations.
5) That statement should have "...for 9 months" at the end of it. Oh, and didn't it ever occur to you that this is a recuring answer to Enforcer?
6) Tooth and Nail wins turn 3 or 4 every game? Damn. What build of Tooth are you using? Come on, give up your tech!
Edit: read Xen's post. What he said. Yeah, it offers "nothing" to t2 because the pros haven't used it yet.
(Also known as Xenphire)
I'm clueless as to how Tooth wins turn 3 in the first place.
What about kumano and mephidross vampire?
Also, affinity is not all that good. Tooth and blue decks are harder to deal with. I'm about to get burned at the stake for saying that.
Anyways, i see the following playable cards, but i have not taken a very good look at the set yet.
eradicate gives B/G cloud a new toy.
sowing salt (maby sideboard, not too sure on this one)
terashi`s grasp if any white decks show up.
The 5/5 that ***s you when it leaves play
The wumpus
black and blue genjus are good.
dark banishing that splices for free.
Land that makes a 1/1 on death.
tendo ice bridge.
Terror for legendary creatures.
patron of the akki.
patron of the kitsune
Maby patron of the moon.
I effectively use Mistblade Shinobi in my Counter-Control deck as one of the only two creatures in it, with Ninja of the Deep Hours on sideboard.
As for T&N, there must be some Super Secret Tech because as kingcobweb said I don't see how it wins on turn 3 or 4 either. At this point the deck should move about the speed of a sloth. Black can eliminate every one of it's forests with Erradicate and any land animator, red can take out it's Cloudposts or Urzatron, blue can Quash the T&N and bounce the creatures back or counter the spells. Seriously, T&N sucks. Actually....never use it to try and make a point again or be burned at the stake.
[edit] Funnily enough I was typing this at the same time NotALlama was. *fabricates a can of gasoline and a match* here's Xenny!!! :imp:
(Also known as Xenphire)
I've done extensive playtesting with the red Genju, and it seems to be a pretty viable card, decent against everything but Ravager.
Duh Sowing Salts is going into the sideboard for Tooth, but that's the only thing it's good for. Still better than Blood Moon though because Salts actually has sortof a use against Ravager as well.
Basically though, it's been my experience that against most tier 1 matchups, ponza pwns. The only thing i've had a problem with is b/g cloud.
-banner by Dementia Blader, avatar by Zoobamaphooza
Hmm... yeah, all you people are only talking about Constructed! Talk about Limited too! Limited is more fun anyway.
Can I become a member of the Lampoon Kewl Krew?
Yours truly,
Chilly
I'll oblige to burning you at the stake. Affinity is that good.
Betrayers isn't too bad actually as there a some cards that have potential in Type 2. Of all cards, I think I have to fear Orb of Dreams the most.
Do you like Darksteel? Really? Name 5 playables (not tooth-targets. Playables. Without Tooth the Golem is nothing, as is Colossus.)
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
i also would have to say that i dont agree with most of butte blues analizations of the cards listed. also what i dont get is how you defend the fact that betrayers isnt a good set, yet its your favorite set in your profile? then you say you are heavy type 2, so u shoudl like sets with type 2 playable cards shoudlnt you? and you say there is maybe ONE constructed type 2 playable card in the set? thats odd. maybe im just dumb, but im pretty sure BoK will have a bigger impact on standard then you think. no offense but just a question, how many set realeases have you been around for butteblues??
Banner by Alex.
MEGAMATT
Echoing Truth, Echoing Decay, Death Cloud, Aether Vial, Arcbound Ravager. And incase Affinity stuff doesn't count, Pulse of the Forge, and Trinisphere (maybe not in T2 but it's playable in T1)
[edit]
Blinkmoth Nexus, Furnace Dragon, Pristine Angel, Pulse of the Tangle.
(Also known as Xenphire)
heres some more:
Auriok Glaivemaster, Chittering Rats, Death Cloud, Last Word, Mirrodin’s Core, Oxidize, Pulse of the Fields,
Banner by Alex.
MEGAMATT
As for Decay and Cloud, I heard that Tier 2 decks are svg tech.
Oh wait. I mean unplayable crap. Sorry.
And Trini is, as you said, only good out of Standard, and the Tangle pule and Pristine angel are really bad, sry. Also, we're not in Block anymore, Furnace Dragon is not just bad, it's horrendous againt anything but affinity, and welcome to "The metagme is not affinity"land.
But you hit 5. Props to that, I guess.
I still say BoK has more potential.
EDIT:
Oh yeah, I forgot about Oxidize. Yeah, that's a good card. The other cards? their only true use is being contorted into such a shape as to prevent my valuable cards from being damaged in shipping.
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
cloud and decay are unhplayable crap eh??? tangle and angel arn't bad either. many control decks with white run pristine....
however, that being said, i 100% agree wioth you plastik, that BoK DOES have more potential than darksteel.
Banner by Alex.
MEGAMATT