R = Row, C = Column
Italics means the ability is not evergreen
R1C1: Protection from White
R1C2: Protection from Blue
R1C3: Protection from Black
R1C4: Protection from Red
R1C5: Protection from Green
R1C6: Reach
R1C7: Hexproof
R2C1: ?
R2C2: Vigilance
R2C3: Trample
R2C4: Deathtouch
R2C5: Indestructible
R2C6: Totem Armor
R2C7: Lifelink
R3C1: Can't Untap
R3C2: Legendary
R3C3: Intimidate
R3C4: First Strike
R3C5: Double Strike
R3C6: Haste
R3C7: Fear
R4C1: Annihilator
R4C2: Prevent Damage
R4C3: Defender
R4C4: Infect
R4C5: Flying
R4C6: Battle Cry
R4C7: Copy
R5C1: Regeneration
R5C2: Shroud
R5C3: Plainswalk
R5C4: Islandwalk
R5C5: Swampwalk
R5C6: Mountainwalk
R5C7: Forestwalk
Missing evergreen keywords:
Enchant
Equip
Flash
Other icons exist for: (see Lighthammer's #11 post in this thread)
Changeling
Exalted
Flanking
Must be blocked
Unblockable
Wither
These ability icons each represent a keyworded ability, such as Flying, or Haste. They were created by Pamela Ansman-Wolfe for the Duels of the Planeswalkers game. Having never played the game, I'm wondering what everyone's experience with them is. Do they help you more easily recognize abilities? It seems that the keywords are still textually represented, so what do these visual representations add? Could these icons be used in-lieu of their textual representations, perhaps on full-art cards? While some seem quite intuitive to myself, I have no ideas what others are.
Is this question in reference to Duels, or are you asking if they could be used in the MTGO client?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Is this question in reference to Duels, or are you asking if they could be used in the MTGO client?
I was mostly concerned with hearing what DotP users thought of them, but would also like to discuss their potential use outside of DotP. It looks like I misinterpreted this forum's title, thinking it was akin to the Magic General forum, but for any online types of Magic. If you or another moderator could move it to the Duels of the Planeswalkers sub-forum, I'd appreciate it. It's probably more relevant there.
P.S. The Digital Magic and MTG Software forum's description reads "For all your non-Magic Online needs", which it seems I also misunderstood. I think using the term MTGO rather than Magic Online could have prevented this confusion.
I was mostly concerned with hearing what DotP users thought of them, but would also like to discuss their potential use outside of DotP. It looks like I misinterpreted this forum's title, thinking it was akin to the Magic General forum, but for any online types of Magic. If you or another moderator could move it to the Duels of the Planeswalkers sub-forum, I'd appreciate it. It's probably more relevant there.
P.S. The Digital Magic and MTG Software forum's description reads "For all your non-Magic Online needs", which it seems I also misunderstood. I think using the term MTGO rather than Magic Online could have prevented this confusion.
I'll have them look into that.
Moved
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Do you have a source for the non-asterisk ones? I'm quite sure a few of those are wrong, (Deathtouch, Unblockable, & Vigilance at least) based on the images found on Pamela's site. One shows a Vampire Nighthawk fighting a Terra Stomper, presumably with a Sword of Vengeance in play, so I was able to determine which icons represented Flying, Deathtouch, Lifelink, First Strike, Vigilance, Trample, and Haste. Another image shows a Wall of Vines, although Defender and Reach were a bit easier to guess at.
I'm quite sure you're right. I did a quick run on memory and played a few rounds on DoTP before going to sleep (and actually answering this post before doing so too!).
Its on dropbox so my updates are live. The ones that are live and accurate from in game observations are colored now.
I'm kind of determined to get a correct list myself because I am using the list of icons for something myself so I'll probably play through DoTP a few rounds myself tomorrow strategically looking for ones I am missing.
Since I stumbled upon this thread looking for the images, I figured I'd share my research and knowledge since the thread itself was helpful to me =).
If I get determined enough I might go digging in the data files, but those icons I already know aren't easily visible in the DOTP data files. I'm sure you can find them, but they're by no means as readily accessible as the card data is and I find myself feeling like its going to be more of an ordeal looking through the file then just playing the game and checking things off >.<
On a random note, I did some quick research and I actually found out its not too terribly expensive to get 6 side dice milled with these symbols for game play. $30 seems like it would get you a 36 dice set with the option to vary sets of dice. Since DoTP seems to color coded based seemingly on evasion, combat abilities and defensive abilities. If thats true, I'm almost hoping I'll cleanly see a pattern where 3 different die can cleanly cover 6 abilities in that "spectrum". If it looks nice and clean, I might actually go that route. Dice like this would be awesome for my play group. We tend to play bigger games and being able to see a creature has life link from a dice like this at a glace would be great.
(I hope this forum doesn't have double post rules, especially since this post is several hours apart and being posted as a new post to alert those who are following the thread!)
I'll toss this out because this is going to be annoying =(.
There apparently more in game icons that don't show up on the above panel. IE The unblockable icon isn't there and sadly, you don't seem to be able to screen shot these icons in game (the function isn't there).
I'm looking for a decent program to grab the icons.
I quite like the icons in DotP. Although the abilities are still written on the cards the icons allow you to see the abilities without zooming. They're a helpful aide memoir, as far as I'm concerned.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Honestly, I'm wishy washy on some of them, some are quite good.
What I do find them extremely useful in is in design though. My play group dabbles a lot of custom card design or custom format design. I find the icons extremely useful because sometimes it would be much more practical to use the icons on the cards instead of writing out the abilities, its much easier at a glance for me (especially since I am a visual learner).
I don't think its practical to suggest Wizards converts to using the symbols on the cards themselves because I feel novice and intermediate players would find the game to be far too knowledge based instead of having explanations right in front of you. For advanced and expert level players who play weekly or more, I think the icons great, they cut down on explanations, cut down on card text and using dice or tokens to place on the cards to represent common abilities like evergreens is awesome for larger format games such as 6 players to see what creatures are doing from across the table at a glance. The color coding makes it even easier so you know if the ability is buffing its offense, defense or ability to be hit (though I would honestly argue this system could be vastly improved).
2v2 isn't difficult to keep track of things, but 1v1v1v1 is too and its also a benefit for that sort of format.
I accurately got all but two symbols locked down now:
I know I've seen the first one before but I can't find any abilities that seem to reflect it.
The second I almost suspect is an unused graphic for illusions. I know I've never seen that one before (or at least REALLY don't recall!).
I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what these last two are. If anyone wants to help ID these, I do have EVERY card programmed into DoTP from the 2010 edition to the 2013 edition listed here: http://deckbox.org/sets/280967
Something else of interest is the current icon for Regeneration was actually used as the icon for "Protection from..." (IE Baneslayer Angel's protection from Demons and Dragons). It was only after Hexproof was introduced did they move the icons around, but for some reason, they made "Protection from..." into Regeneration which already had its own icon. My work uses the current Regeneration icon as Hexproof and the original Regeneration Icon because, rankly, I think its a goof up >.<
The icons that were NOT in the original image shared by BetweenWalls / Pamela Ansman-Wolfe are:
Annihilator
Changeling
Exalted
Flanking
Must be blocked
Unblockable
Wither
These are graphics I created myself. I'll admit I am not the best Photoshop guy around so I'd actually appreciate it if anyone interested in the ends of getting get reproductions of these icons who does have some skills in that department offering to clean them up! I'll probably get someone in my own line of contacts to do it eventually regardless, but that's later.
For those who want the nice and neat cut out versions of these graphics, I was nice enough to create a zip of both the colored ones I made, the mono ones from the original graphic and the ones I created from the game that are listed above. You can find those here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5lzgrfhvssogar/dotp_icons.zip
I have to admit, those last two are going to drive me insane but I think I'm done with this unless anyone has any really good guesses what the remaining two are or can point out other abilities in game that are in use that aren't on my chart.
The final thing I'd like to have some discussion on for anyone willing; I ended up pulling between all four releases of DoTP to get the symbols I did and the thing I did notice is between each one, there is little to no consistency how these graphics are color coded. I used DoTP 2014's color coding system and all of these graphics are accurate to that, but what is obvious Stainless Games didn't put as much thought into the color coding as Wizards typically does with their products.
I'll end up doing this on my own regardless, but what I'd like to hear from everyone is: how do you think these things should be properly color coded?
I actually think the first one is "Protection from..."
I actually haven't seen a Baneslayer in game since I started hacking away at this and trying to get one to show up :-|
The other one I am actually wondering if it's Haunt, though I thought there was an Orzhov themed deck of sorts but I seem to be mistaken. I'm still thinking the second icon never actually showed up in the game.
Ah! That sounds logical. I can pretty easily check that! Thanks
/edit
I'm still trying to find a good way to test fogs / prevent damage but I did confirm that the below is NOT "Protection from..."
/edit
Safe Passage and creatures that prevent damage they take DO NOT have this icon =(. Fogs are surprisingly scarce, no decks I have installed on my DotP 2013 edition have Fog. I have DoTP 2010/2011 as well, but they use different icons and all of them are low quality.
Nice try - it sounded highly plausible!
For ease of coordination, I made an image out of my table, hope that helps / is useful!
Ah! That sounds logical. I can pretty easily check that! Thanks
/edit
I'm still trying to find a good way to test fogs / prevent damage but I did confirm that the below is NOT "Protection from..."
/edit
Safe Passage and creatures that prevent damage they take DO NOT have this icon =(. Fogs are surprisingly scarce, no decks I have installed on my DotP 2013 edition have Fog. I have DoTP 2010/2011 as well, but they use different icons and all of them are low quality.
Nice try - it sounded highly plausible!
For ease of coordination, I made an image out of my table, hope that helps / is useful!
In DOTP 2013, if you roll Chaos with Mount Keralia, you get that icon next to your picture to represent the 'prevent all damage that planes named Mount Keralia would deal to permanents you control' effect.
Odric, Master Tactician (Peacekeepers D13)
Effect: Whenever Odric, Master Tactician and at least three other creatures attack, you choose which creatures block this combat and how those creatures block. (Pretty sure there's no icon on this)
[X] Captivating Vampire (Blood Hunger D12) <NO ICON>
Effect: Tap five untapped Vampires you control: Gain control of target creature. It becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types.
[X] Bloodghast (Blood Hunger D12) <NO ICON>
Effect: Bloodghast can't block.
Bloodghast has haste as long as an opponent has 10 or less life.
Only white and black creature cards stood out to me just now because I was looking for haunt. I thought FOR SURE there was a haunt card(s) but I seem to be mistaken.
If anyone else has other suggestions of cards they think have icons that are not listed yet, throw them out pls!
/edit
I confirmed the below IS Damage Prevented, however, it seems to only be used in Planechase. Thanks for the heads up on that Tearlach.
I also found another new one in Planechase, it's Reverse Turn Order:
Ok, I would like some feedback --- minus the mystery ghost / specter image I got my little reference guide graphically done and started working out a better premise for coloration (since its not even consistent between games!).
I divided the abilities into:
- Combat: Things that happen during combat damage step
- Defensive / Protection: Things that affect survivability
- Evasion / Movement / Landwalk: Things that generally make it easier to deal damage (IE Flying)
- Attacking (as in "When attacking"): Triggers that occur when attacking, such as Battlecry
- Activated: Self explantory, though I do have Flash in here and there's really no reason for it >.<
- Special: Statuses such as Legendary or champions that give +1/+1 tribally.
- Statuses: Anything that removes or adds a function of a card (IE Can't block, can't attack (yes thats defender)).
- Attached: Probably no need for it, but I have it her for now. Things like equipment and enchants.
My goal is kind of to attempt to have 6 'functions' per category. As I said, I think I am ultimately going to get a custom chessex set made, though I am trying to keep things accurate. I don't want to squeeze things into categories they don't belong and heck, if it makes sense consolidating categorizes, I'm all for that too, though I think they are pretty logical right now.
I want to let you know that while I don't have DotP to help you, I really appreciate what you're doing here.
I think I'm going to make these into an enhanced symbol font for MSE as part of a new project I'm going to start on, making them available as symbols on custom cards.
Thats actually really awesome to hear, MSE is a great tool.
Maybe we should do some side bar collaboration on the topic. I know we've talked infrequently on the MSE forums. I have some interesting thoughts for template designs, but in all honesty, I've never figured out exactly how templates work (I'm more of a designer then a developer)
Thats actually really awesome to hear, MSE is a great tool.
Maybe we should do some side bar collaboration on the topic. I know we've talked infrequently on the MSE forums. I have some interesting thoughts for template designs, but in all honesty, I've never figured out exactly how templates work (I'm more of a designer then a developer)
I'd love to hear what you have to say, about template ideas in general, not just necessarily these icons.
If you PM me anywhere or start a thread on the matter on either forum, you'll catch my attention.
Italics means the ability is not evergreen
R1C1: Protection from White
R1C2: Protection from Blue
R1C3: Protection from Black
R1C4: Protection from Red
R1C5: Protection from Green
R1C6: Reach
R1C7: Hexproof
R2C1: ?
R2C2: Vigilance
R2C3: Trample
R2C4: Deathtouch
R2C5: Indestructible
R2C6: Totem Armor
R2C7: Lifelink
R3C1: Can't Untap
R3C2: Legendary
R3C3: Intimidate
R3C4: First Strike
R3C5: Double Strike
R3C6: Haste
R3C7: Fear
R4C1: Annihilator
R4C2: Prevent Damage
R4C3: Defender
R4C4: Infect
R4C5: Flying
R4C6: Battle Cry
R4C7: Copy
R5C1: Regeneration
R5C2: Shroud
R5C3: Plainswalk
R5C4: Islandwalk
R5C5: Swampwalk
R5C6: Mountainwalk
R5C7: Forestwalk
Missing evergreen keywords:
Enchant
Equip
Flash
Other icons exist for: (see Lighthammer's #11 post in this thread)
Changeling
Exalted
Flanking
Must be blocked
Unblockable
Wither
I was mostly concerned with hearing what DotP users thought of them, but would also like to discuss their potential use outside of DotP. It looks like I misinterpreted this forum's title, thinking it was akin to the Magic General forum, but for any online types of Magic. If you or another moderator could move it to the Duels of the Planeswalkers sub-forum, I'd appreciate it. It's probably more relevant there.
P.S. The Digital Magic and MTG Software forum's description reads "For all your non-Magic Online needs", which it seems I also misunderstood. I think using the term MTGO rather than Magic Online could have prevented this confusion.
I'll have them look into that.
Moved
I'm not positive on some of them, but I filled out a great deal of your chart for you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqz0qmjn19m6djx/Evergreen%20Abilities.docx
Do you have a source for the non-asterisk ones? I'm quite sure a few of those are wrong, (Deathtouch, Unblockable, & Vigilance at least) based on the images found on Pamela's site. One shows a Vampire Nighthawk fighting a Terra Stomper, presumably with a Sword of Vengeance in play, so I was able to determine which icons represented Flying, Deathtouch, Lifelink, First Strike, Vigilance, Trample, and Haste. Another image shows a Wall of Vines, although Defender and Reach were a bit easier to guess at.
Its on dropbox so my updates are live. The ones that are live and accurate from in game observations are colored now.
I'm kind of determined to get a correct list myself because I am using the list of icons for something myself so I'll probably play through DoTP a few rounds myself tomorrow strategically looking for ones I am missing.
Since I stumbled upon this thread looking for the images, I figured I'd share my research and knowledge since the thread itself was helpful to me =).
If I get determined enough I might go digging in the data files, but those icons I already know aren't easily visible in the DOTP data files. I'm sure you can find them, but they're by no means as readily accessible as the card data is and I find myself feeling like its going to be more of an ordeal looking through the file then just playing the game and checking things off >.<
On a random note, I did some quick research and I actually found out its not too terribly expensive to get 6 side dice milled with these symbols for game play. $30 seems like it would get you a 36 dice set with the option to vary sets of dice. Since DoTP seems to color coded based seemingly on evasion, combat abilities and defensive abilities. If thats true, I'm almost hoping I'll cleanly see a pattern where 3 different die can cleanly cover 6 abilities in that "spectrum". If it looks nice and clean, I might actually go that route. Dice like this would be awesome for my play group. We tend to play bigger games and being able to see a creature has life link from a dice like this at a glace would be great.
I'll toss this out because this is going to be annoying =(.
There apparently more in game icons that don't show up on the above panel. IE The unblockable icon isn't there and sadly, you don't seem to be able to screen shot these icons in game (the function isn't there).
I'm looking for a decent program to grab the icons.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
What I do find them extremely useful in is in design though. My play group dabbles a lot of custom card design or custom format design. I find the icons extremely useful because sometimes it would be much more practical to use the icons on the cards instead of writing out the abilities, its much easier at a glance for me (especially since I am a visual learner).
I don't think its practical to suggest Wizards converts to using the symbols on the cards themselves because I feel novice and intermediate players would find the game to be far too knowledge based instead of having explanations right in front of you. For advanced and expert level players who play weekly or more, I think the icons great, they cut down on explanations, cut down on card text and using dice or tokens to place on the cards to represent common abilities like evergreens is awesome for larger format games such as 6 players to see what creatures are doing from across the table at a glance. The color coding makes it even easier so you know if the ability is buffing its offense, defense or ability to be hit (though I would honestly argue this system could be vastly improved).
2v2 isn't difficult to keep track of things, but 1v1v1v1 is too and its also a benefit for that sort of format.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqz0qmjn19m6djx/Evergreen%20Abilities.docx
I accurately got all but two symbols locked down now:
I know I've seen the first one before but I can't find any abilities that seem to reflect it.
The second I almost suspect is an unused graphic for illusions. I know I've never seen that one before (or at least REALLY don't recall!).
I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what these last two are. If anyone wants to help ID these, I do have EVERY card programmed into DoTP from the 2010 edition to the 2013 edition listed here:
http://deckbox.org/sets/280967
Something else of interest is the current icon for Regeneration was actually used as the icon for "Protection from..." (IE Baneslayer Angel's protection from Demons and Dragons). It was only after Hexproof was introduced did they move the icons around, but for some reason, they made "Protection from..." into Regeneration which already had its own icon. My work uses the current Regeneration icon as Hexproof and the original Regeneration Icon because, rankly, I think its a goof up >.<
The icons that were NOT in the original image shared by BetweenWalls / Pamela Ansman-Wolfe are:
These are graphics I created myself. I'll admit I am not the best Photoshop guy around so I'd actually appreciate it if anyone interested in the ends of getting get reproductions of these icons who does have some skills in that department offering to clean them up! I'll probably get someone in my own line of contacts to do it eventually regardless, but that's later.
For those who want the nice and neat cut out versions of these graphics, I was nice enough to create a zip of both the colored ones I made, the mono ones from the original graphic and the ones I created from the game that are listed above. You can find those here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5lzgrfhvssogar/dotp_icons.zip
I have to admit, those last two are going to drive me insane but I think I'm done with this unless anyone has any really good guesses what the remaining two are or can point out other abilities in game that are in use that aren't on my chart.
The final thing I'd like to have some discussion on for anyone willing; I ended up pulling between all four releases of DoTP to get the symbols I did and the thing I did notice is between each one, there is little to no consistency how these graphics are color coded. I used DoTP 2014's color coding system and all of these graphics are accurate to that, but what is obvious Stainless Games didn't put as much thought into the color coding as Wizards typically does with their products.
I'll end up doing this on my own regardless, but what I'd like to hear from everyone is: how do you think these things should be properly color coded?
R4C2: maybe some damage prevention? reminds me of Combat Medic in Fallen Empires (135)
I actually haven't seen a Baneslayer in game since I started hacking away at this and trying to get one to show up :-|
The other one I am actually wondering if it's Haunt, though I thought there was an Orzhov themed deck of sorts but I seem to be mistaken. I'm still thinking the second icon never actually showed up in the game.
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
/edit
I'm still trying to find a good way to test fogs / prevent damage but I did confirm that the below is NOT "Protection from..."
/edit
Safe Passage and creatures that prevent damage they take DO NOT have this icon =(. Fogs are surprisingly scarce, no decks I have installed on my DotP 2013 edition have Fog. I have DoTP 2010/2011 as well, but they use different icons and all of them are low quality.
Nice try - it sounded highly plausible!
For ease of coordination, I made an image out of my table, hope that helps / is useful!
In DOTP 2013, if you roll Chaos with Mount Keralia, you get that icon next to your picture to represent the 'prevent all damage that planes named Mount Keralia would deal to permanents you control' effect.
Yea, that makes sense. You don't happen to have a screen shot so I can see how to interrupt / use it graphically ?
On that note, in looking for what the two mystery symbols are I've compiled a list of cards I want to look at:
=========================================================
Odric, Master Tactician (Peacekeepers D13)
Effect: Whenever Odric, Master Tactician and at least three other creatures attack, you choose which creatures block this combat and how those creatures block. (Pretty sure there's no icon on this)
=========================================================
Benalish Knight (Beknighted D12)
Effect: Flash (Pretty sure there's no icon)
=========================================================
[X] Captivating Vampire (Blood Hunger D12) <NO ICON>
Effect: Tap five untapped Vampires you control: Gain control of target creature. It becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types.
[X] Bloodghast (Blood Hunger D12) <NO ICON>
Effect: Bloodghast can't block.
Bloodghast has haste as long as an opponent has 10 or less life.
=========================================================
[X] Daggerclaw Imp (Exalted Darkness D13) <NO ICON>
Effect: Daggerclaw Imp can't block.
=========================================================
Phage the Untouchable (Ghoulkeeper D12)
Effect: Whenever Phage deals combat damage to a player, that player loses the game.
Blazing Archon (Grim Procession D13)
Effect: Creatures can't attack you.
=========================================================
Only white and black creature cards stood out to me just now because I was looking for haunt. I thought FOR SURE there was a haunt card(s) but I seem to be mistaken.
If anyone else has other suggestions of cards they think have icons that are not listed yet, throw them out pls!
/edit
I confirmed the below IS Damage Prevented, however, it seems to only be used in Planechase. Thanks for the heads up on that Tearlach.
I also found another new one in Planechase, it's Reverse Turn Order:
Still need to figure out what this is:
Here's what I have:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xewa9ezrqpra7rk/DotP%20Abilities.docx
I divided the abilities into:
- Combat: Things that happen during combat damage step
- Defensive / Protection: Things that affect survivability
- Evasion / Movement / Landwalk: Things that generally make it easier to deal damage (IE Flying)
- Attacking (as in "When attacking"): Triggers that occur when attacking, such as Battlecry
- Activated: Self explantory, though I do have Flash in here and there's really no reason for it >.<
- Special: Statuses such as Legendary or champions that give +1/+1 tribally.
- Statuses: Anything that removes or adds a function of a card (IE Can't block, can't attack (yes thats defender)).
- Attached: Probably no need for it, but I have it her for now. Things like equipment and enchants.
My goal is kind of to attempt to have 6 'functions' per category. As I said, I think I am ultimately going to get a custom chessex set made, though I am trying to keep things accurate. I don't want to squeeze things into categories they don't belong and heck, if it makes sense consolidating categorizes, I'm all for that too, though I think they are pretty logical right now.
Thoughts ?
I think I'm going to make these into an enhanced symbol font for MSE as part of a new project I'm going to start on, making them available as symbols on custom cards.
My Moderator Helpdesk| My Custom Set List | My MSE Template HostingBeers Tasted: 113 | Last Beer Sampled: Flying Dog Horn Dog Barley Wine Ale
Maybe we should do some side bar collaboration on the topic. I know we've talked infrequently on the MSE forums. I have some interesting thoughts for template designs, but in all honesty, I've never figured out exactly how templates work (I'm more of a designer then a developer)
I'd love to hear what you have to say, about template ideas in general, not just necessarily these icons.
If you PM me anywhere or start a thread on the matter on either forum, you'll catch my attention.
My Moderator Helpdesk| My Custom Set List | My MSE Template HostingBeers Tasted: 113 | Last Beer Sampled: Flying Dog Horn Dog Barley Wine Ale