If you want to play what if games there's a much greater chance your paper cards will get stolen, damaged or lost than there is of anything happening to MTGO.
This makes me think you haven't really experienced or payed attention to the loads of services just like MTGO that have shut down and left everyone that used it high and dry.
This makes me think you haven't really experienced or payed attention to the loads of services just like MTGO that have shut down and left everyone that used it high and dry.
Well I can't speak for "loads of services" but Ive never had any problems with MTGO and I do not worry even a little bit about it's future. Lawsuits like this one are only going to make MTGO stronger.
Do what ever you want, but just understand there is a legit option available to you. I recommend dumping your paper cards sooner rather than later.
Think about it which is more likely:
Hasbro, a huge profitable company, with a profitable online gaming system called MTGO shutting everything down for some (unspecified) reason.
-or-
Some guy with a collection of playing cards loses them.
To those who care about this and everything they're doing to **** up this even further. i urge you to write them a letter, via their knowledge base (Here)
Done.
Again, apologies for the ridiculously long first post, but it was in the hopes of offering a constructive viewpoint to anyone listening (ahem). I'd be paying attention if I was a part of the Hasbro or WoTC strategy team; if they have no proactive feedback loop (like following the main discussion thread about their action) to measure the effect of their important business decisions, MtG is a lost cause anyway.
Some folks like MTGO as it stands, others don't. Dead horse is dead. You can't make everyone happy, but you can make a dollar.
But this effectively turns me away from competitive play, which I was looking forward to. I have no problem paying for things I like, but it's asinine to invest huge sums without clearly seeing the benefit--that's how I view MTGO.
Everyone will weigh in, ultimately with their wallet. Until they make MTGO more like Cockatrice, I know how I will weigh in.
@Memory Lapse
Suppose that MTGO get shut down because of any reason, you lost both your money and your virtual cards. Money is already hard to get now, so I doubt the easiest way would be to migrate to the digital format, unless Hasbro send you a specific data back-up of everything you bought (and I doubt they will do that).
So, cards in real life will never die since there is both a demand and the necessity of having them. Yes, they can be stolen, lost or damaged. Same with data. A hacker could try breaking in the MTGO servers, stole everything from you, erase everything or do more horrible things. There is no real fail safe to stealing or losing things.
And here's something to push deeper that virtual cards is not the solution. Corrupted Data. The most feared thing by programmers. Happens all the time and everyday. Have you ever lost everything on your computer just because of a corrupted file? A virus can easily corrupt data and wipe out your a hard drive.
And a hard drive is physical. It will eventually break, even if it's a Solid State with no moving parts.
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Casual crazy magic player, otaku maniac, unrully cosplayer, what did you expect me to be?
@Memory Lapse
Suppose that MTGO get shut down because of any reason, you lost both your money and your virtual cards.
See this is the problem with people like you. You refuse to see the obvious fact that there is much LESS chance of you losing even one basic land in your digital collection than there is of you losing your entire physical collection.
Is your MTGO digital collection 100% safe and guaranteed for life? Nope. Is you paper collection? Nope. Anything COULD happen, but which scenario is more likely?
You are just using that as an excuse to avoid admitting to yourself that your paper cards have much less utility than an official digital collection of the same cards would.
Paper is old n busted, digital is the new hotness.
Paper is old n busted, digital is the new hotness.
Not really. I have a ton more fun with paper than I ever would online, and it's much easier to do big games with paper than it would be online. There's also just something more satisfying about actually having the cards in your hands, in my opinion.
If I want to play 15-25 player games with my cousins, why should we all have to bring laptops, instead of just grabbing our cards and having fun? Heck, that would be assuming all the people in my family who like playing even have a laptop, or the money to buy one. Hint: They don't.
Carrying a deck around is much more convenient than carrying a computer around.
They both have their advantages, and they both have their disadvantages. Neither form of playing is one size fits all.
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Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
Not accepting the profiteering bull**** of a corporation is "entitlement" now
top lel
Hasbro is a business.
They have a product.
They expect to be paid for their product.
People want it play their product for free. And why wouldn't they?
But unfortunately, that product legally cannot be replicated without Hasbro permission.
If you made up your own cards and put them on cockatrice, that would be fine. But you are using a copyrighted product, which you are expected to pay for.
Hasbro has surely done research and determined that they are losing money because people are playing their product for free.
It's business. You can refuse to accept it about it all you want, but it doesn't make you correct.
You may feel like you deserve to play magic online for free, but unfortunately, there's a good chance the legal system will disagree.
See this is the problem with people like you. You refuse to see the obvious fact that there is much LESS chance of you losing even one basic land in your digital collection than there is of you losing your entire physical collection.
Is your MTGO digital collection 100% safe and guaranteed for life? Nope. Is you paper collection? Nope. Anything COULD happen, but which scenario is more likely?
You are just using that as an excuse to avoid admitting to yourself that your paper cards have much less utility than an official digital collection of the same cards would.
Paper is old n busted, digital is the new hotness.
A bump to provide the link to the petition in my signature.
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
See this is the problem with people like you. You refuse to see the obvious fact that there is much LESS chance of you losing even one basic land in your digital collection than there is of you losing your entire physical collection.
Is your MTGO digital collection 100% safe and guaranteed for life? Nope. Is you paper collection? Nope. Anything COULD happen, but which scenario is more likely?
You are just using that as an excuse to avoid admitting to yourself that your paper cards have much less utility than an official digital collection of the same cards would.
Paper is old n busted, digital is the new hotness.
I'll ignore the ad hominem, and the fact that we are going somewhat OT, and address your good point that digital cards have great utility.
In a world where there was no paper MtG, where players never experienced the thrill of unwrapping the first booster in a fresh box, the smell of new card, you would be right.
But that's not the world we are in.
Digital cards will be compared to physical. Too most of us, they are viewed as inferior. This is true for several reasons. They are never possessed. They remain in custody of the vendor, who is willing to provide access so long as cashflow is in the black. People have an intuitive grasp of ownership, and digital ownership is inferior to physical ownership. And, of course, digital cards only appeal to one sense, and are not part of an organic, satisfying play experience that involves all the senses. After all, when we watch pro tour, we watch people playing live.
Had there never been the physical game, the digital version would be fine. I'm sure the bean counters at Hasbro rue this fact, since the margins for digital product must be superior. Even with all the money that must be poured into the platform, the lacking platform.
See this is the problem with people like you. You refuse to see the obvious fact that there is much LESS chance of you losing even one basic land in your digital collection than there is of you losing your entire physical collection.
Is your MTGO digital collection 100% safe and guaranteed for life? Nope. Is you paper collection? Nope. Anything COULD happen, but which scenario is more likely?
You are just using that as an excuse to avoid admitting to yourself that your paper cards have much less utility than an official digital collection of the same cards would.
Paper is old n busted, digital is the new hotness.
I'm finding it really hard to believe that someone is so adamant about digital only. Do you not enjoy the social aspect of Magic? I think it's honestly one of the most amazing things about the game. Inviting a bunch of people over on a Friday night for Cube/EDH and other formats is just great. I hate feeling like I'm playing against a robot the whole time.
Yes there is a danger to having your collection stolen or destroyed in some manner, but having cards you don't own online really isn't any safer. There IS a chance that somewhere down the road, Magic online might shut down. Magic: The Gathering may not be around for the rest of my lifetime. I'm happy to know that when I'm 70 (here's hoping) and I feel like teaching my great grandchildren how to play the game, I'll have that option.
Digital and paper both have their advantages, but it is absolutely ridiculous to favor Digital over paper.
If digital does become the only option, I better start practicing my communications.
"gg"
"Good luck, Have fun"
"Waiting for SgtMcQuacks"
"SgtMcQuacks has conceded"
"SgtMcQuacks has left the game"
Damn that feels good. It's like I just had an hour long debate with some friends.
5. Redemption is a thing, even if no one ever does it.
I'm pretty sure redemption is a huge thing, you can usually get sets online a lot cheaper than RL.
A physical card has intrinsic value, if only that of the cardboard and ink it's made of (and also the fact that Wizards can't shut it down and make your card cease to exist in any meaningful fashion).
The cardboard and ink your card is printed with are worthless. MTG cards are only ever worth what a player will pay for them, in either real or digital form.
A bump to provide the link to the petition in my signature.
Not for nothing, but have online petitions ever accomplished anything?
I certainly understand people getting upset over something getting taken away, but you can't with a straight face say that anyone "deserves" to be able to play Magic Online for free.
As for people saying they will quit playing, if 1/10th of the people who said they were going to quit due to some perceived slight by Hasbro actually did so, MTG would have folded years ago. It certainly would not be breaking sales and attendance records with nearly every release.
Hasbro is a business.
They have a product.
They expect to be paid for their product.
People want it play their product for free. And why wouldn't they?
But unfortunately, that product legally cannot be replicated without Hasbro permission.
If you made up your own cards and put them on cockatrice, that would be fine. But you are using a copyrighted product, which you are expected to pay for.
Hasbro has surely done research and determined that they are losing money because people are playing their product for free.
It's business. You can refuse to accept it about it all you want, but it doesn't make you correct.
You may feel like you deserve to play magic online for free, but unfortunately, there's a good chance the legal system will disagree.
The game is never replicated in Cockatrice, the game rules are never shown and only a life counter, some zones and some counters are implemented. Everything needed for any kind of card game that needs life. I'm sure it would be easy to play Pokemon or Yugi-Oh! on Cockatrice.
Cockatrice is a card game emulator and the card images aren't even in Cockatrice. The only thing they give us is something with the name of the sets released by Wizard if the Coast, not the cards. We provide the card database by running the Oracle Reader, which gives us the card names, effect, cost and everything else needed. We go search them directly on Gatherer, which is the open source database for Magic cards.
It's true that said Oracle Reader semi-automate the process and speed things up for everyone, but who in their right mind would really go check each cards one by one, write in that cards.xml file everything needed and implement it into Cockatrice manually. Guess what, this is faster and free. No one was bothered before, so why are they bothered now? Those are proxy games, no money is involved for tournaments held by particulars (compared to MWS) and everyone was happy.
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Casual crazy magic player, otaku maniac, unrully cosplayer, what did you expect me to be?
Hasbro is a business.
They have a product.
They expect to be paid for their product.
People want it play their product for free. And why wouldn't they?
But unfortunately, that product legally cannot be replicated without Hasbro permission.
If you made up your own cards and put them on cockatrice, that would be fine. But you are using a copyrighted product, which you are expected to pay for.
Hasbro has surely done research and determined that they are losing money because people are playing their product for free.
It's business. You can refuse to accept it about it all you want, but it doesn't make you correct.
You may feel like you deserve to play magic online for free, but unfortunately, there's a good chance the legal system will disagree.
Cockatrice doesn't infringe copyright, they don't host anything copyrighted by themselves, if they were, they would have been shut down long ago, and rightfully so.
Sending a C&D to cockatrice is not different to sending it to a playgroup that uses proxys to play.
The only reason Hasbro can do this is because they have corporation money, and small developers like brukie cant be expected to pay legal fees protecting something they don't see a single dime for, and instead choose to shut down. It's not because they are right, its only because they have more money. THAT's the way "legality" works in our time.
Also the "they're losing money" argument is total bs, if you haven't realized by now. Hasbro ain't gonna be seeing a single extra buck from cockatrice being shut down. The ppl who want to play MTG without paying will just resort to proxys, or any of the other countless programs you can play online with without paying.
You can't argue with a traditional hard-headed corporation the size of Hasbro, but they should just acknowledge that the world is a different place now that internet runs rampant, and they should realize that moves likes this is just bad PR that they don't actually profit from in any way, it just alienates them from potential customers.
I certainly understand people getting upset over something getting taken away, but you can't with a straight face say that anyone "deserves" to be able to play Magic Online for free.
I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be able to play for free online
I can only speak for myself but I have a hard time seeing how Hasbro can hope to shut down cockatrice considering cockatrice seems to conform to WotC terms of service. (EDIT: other than by massive financial threats of course)
Now I'm no expert so I could be way out to lunch on this but I think most people who have laid out fleshed out arguments as to why cockatrice getting shut down on the grounds that it is using images from The Gatherer database are right: if cockatrice gets shut down for using images that are available to all then we are going to have a serious problem internet wide.
I'll ignore the ad hominem, and the fact that we are going somewhat OT, and address your good point that digital cards have great utility.
In a world where there was no paper MtG, where players never experienced the thrill of unwrapping the first booster in a fresh box, the smell of new card, you would be right.
But that's not the world we are in.
Digital cards will be compared to physical. Too most of us, they are viewed as inferior. This is true for several reasons. They are never possessed. They remain in custody of the vendor, who is willing to provide access so long as cashflow is in the black. People have an intuitive grasp of ownership, and digital ownership is inferior to physical ownership. And, of course, digital cards only appeal to one sense, and are not part of an organic, satisfying play experience that involves all the senses. After all, when we watch pro tour, we watch people playing live.
Had there never been the physical game, the digital version would be fine. I'm sure the bean counters at Hasbro rue this fact, since the margins for digital product must be superior. Even with all the money that must be poured into the platform, the lacking platform.
I hear you, and Im sorry if my posts come across as cutting. I have been playing MTG since the very beginning, and while I understand your resistance to change regarding digital cards I implore you to give it a chance.
I ahd the exact same feeling about the digital cards in the beginning. But that was years ago, and many companies now offer digital goods for sale. At first I would only buy cards that were redeemable, figuring that if I ever really wanted to physical cards I would at least have an avenue. Now I could care less. I would never redeem my cards even if someone offered me a box of mint cards today.
Why not? Because I have almost no use for paper cards, mint condition or otherwise. I do not have time or desire to hunt down people to play magic with, and it would be impossible to play 10+ matches in a day even if I did. With MTGO I can play as much as I want whenever I want right from my desk. The digital game takes care of all of the rules, shuffling and record keeping so all I need to do is focus on playing the game.
I never lose a card, and I can use the same card in multiple decks something that is very difficult to do with paper. Eventually there will be an iPhone app that will let me play MTGO on the go. No need to cart around boxes of cards. Looking forward to that!
People seem to always hate change. Nostalgia is a powerful emotion. The good old days of cracking packs and holding cards from a new set were great. Hang on to those fond memories, I have plenty of them myself. But there is no need to ignore something better that is available just so you can keep trying to recreate those feelings.
Life goes on as they say. Cherish the good old days til your heart's content, but embrace the new ways. You can do so much more with the new ways, and that's a good thing.
This is very important. Hasbro is not getting my money online ever until they solve this. And yet, I dont think I would be paying 10 bucks a draft for virtual cards
IM pretty sure there is a way to play mtgo with a mac. It might require some effort on your part, but thats what you get for using fringe hardware. WOTC cant be expected to write software for every platform.
If I follow your train of thoughts correctly, you are clearly saying that we should trow everything made with paper and migrate to digital. Sorry to tell you this, but some of us are getting headaches just reading a virtual book.
Paper will always be needed. It's the oldest physical media in our history and has proven many times that it can stand the centuries in the right conditions. If we compare new tech to old tech, new tech is going to lose. A hard drive with mobile pieces is made of magnets, data encoding disks and reading needles while SSD is the same thing as a USB memory key.
They will eventually fail where paper will stay.
Now, on another note. Hasbro is sending C&D to any fanbase materials. Even the artist from a web comic was asked to shut down! Where's the right to express yourself here!
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Casual crazy magic player, otaku maniac, unrully cosplayer, what did you expect me to be?
IM pretty sure there is a way to play mtgo with a mac. It might require some effort on your part, but thats what you get for using fringe hardware. WOTC cant be expected to write software for every platform.
Macs qualify as fringe hardware? If you'd said that about Linux, I could see it, but I think calling Macs fringe hardware is going a little far. Heck, you said you wanted there to be an Iphone app so you can do it on the go. Iphones and macs are made by the exact same company. I would think if you were going to release an app for the Iphone, you would also make your program available to Macs.
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Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
I have been playing MTG since the very beginning, and while I understand your resistance to change regarding digital cards I implore you to give it a chance.
Great points, and I'm not saying I'll never make the switch. Hey, I did buy the platform and spent a few hours knocking around before giving up. Maybe when the MTGO platform is somewhat improved, and the barriers to making the jump are not so intimidating. Maybe I'm the only fuddyduddy like this, maybe I'm alone in this.
But the issue remains: a high number "legacy" physical players seem unready to make the jump. In this moment, there is a huge need for a digital "sandbox" for physical players to further their pursuit of this outstanding game. Maybe it's my ignorance of MTGO that keeps me from seeing that the answer is already here.
Or, maybe Hasbro is just going to take the hard line approach of "take it or leave it." Sadly, as things stand, for many the answer will be leave it. And I don't mean leave MtG altogether in a hissy fit, what I mean their total experience with the game will be limited, and the overall participation in the brand more confined. Personally, I'm not ready to make the tremendous investment when I don't know if it's worth it, because the MTGO platform doesn't let me make that determination without pouring in substantial money. Maybe that's all good with TPTB, and that's a legit decision, even if some will be left in the cold.
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This makes me think you haven't really experienced or payed attention to the loads of services just like MTGO that have shut down and left everyone that used it high and dry.
Well I can't speak for "loads of services" but Ive never had any problems with MTGO and I do not worry even a little bit about it's future. Lawsuits like this one are only going to make MTGO stronger.
Do what ever you want, but just understand there is a legit option available to you. I recommend dumping your paper cards sooner rather than later.
Think about it which is more likely:
Hasbro, a huge profitable company, with a profitable online gaming system called MTGO shutting everything down for some (unspecified) reason.
-or-
Some guy with a collection of playing cards loses them.
Done.
Again, apologies for the ridiculously long first post, but it was in the hopes of offering a constructive viewpoint to anyone listening (ahem). I'd be paying attention if I was a part of the Hasbro or WoTC strategy team; if they have no proactive feedback loop (like following the main discussion thread about their action) to measure the effect of their important business decisions, MtG is a lost cause anyway.
Some folks like MTGO as it stands, others don't. Dead horse is dead. You can't make everyone happy, but you can make a dollar.
But this effectively turns me away from competitive play, which I was looking forward to. I have no problem paying for things I like, but it's asinine to invest huge sums without clearly seeing the benefit--that's how I view MTGO.
Everyone will weigh in, ultimately with their wallet. Until they make MTGO more like Cockatrice, I know how I will weigh in.
Suppose that MTGO get shut down because of any reason, you lost both your money and your virtual cards. Money is already hard to get now, so I doubt the easiest way would be to migrate to the digital format, unless Hasbro send you a specific data back-up of everything you bought (and I doubt they will do that).
So, cards in real life will never die since there is both a demand and the necessity of having them. Yes, they can be stolen, lost or damaged. Same with data. A hacker could try breaking in the MTGO servers, stole everything from you, erase everything or do more horrible things. There is no real fail safe to stealing or losing things.
And here's something to push deeper that virtual cards is not the solution. Corrupted Data. The most feared thing by programmers. Happens all the time and everyday. Have you ever lost everything on your computer just because of a corrupted file? A virus can easily corrupt data and wipe out your a hard drive.
And a hard drive is physical. It will eventually break, even if it's a Solid State with no moving parts.
BTW, anyone have a repo of cockatrice anywhere?
See this is the problem with people like you. You refuse to see the obvious fact that there is much LESS chance of you losing even one basic land in your digital collection than there is of you losing your entire physical collection.
Is your MTGO digital collection 100% safe and guaranteed for life? Nope. Is you paper collection? Nope. Anything COULD happen, but which scenario is more likely?
You are just using that as an excuse to avoid admitting to yourself that your paper cards have much less utility than an official digital collection of the same cards would.
Paper is old n busted, digital is the new hotness.
Not really. I have a ton more fun with paper than I ever would online, and it's much easier to do big games with paper than it would be online. There's also just something more satisfying about actually having the cards in your hands, in my opinion.
If I want to play 15-25 player games with my cousins, why should we all have to bring laptops, instead of just grabbing our cards and having fun? Heck, that would be assuming all the people in my family who like playing even have a laptop, or the money to buy one. Hint: They don't.
Carrying a deck around is much more convenient than carrying a computer around.
They both have their advantages, and they both have their disadvantages. Neither form of playing is one size fits all.
Hasbro is a business.
They have a product.
They expect to be paid for their product.
People want it play their product for free. And why wouldn't they?
But unfortunately, that product legally cannot be replicated without Hasbro permission.
If you made up your own cards and put them on cockatrice, that would be fine. But you are using a copyrighted product, which you are expected to pay for.
Hasbro has surely done research and determined that they are losing money because people are playing their product for free.
It's business. You can refuse to accept it about it all you want, but it doesn't make you correct.
You may feel like you deserve to play magic online for free, but unfortunately, there's a good chance the legal system will disagree.
Can you at least argue without attacking others?
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
I'll ignore the ad hominem, and the fact that we are going somewhat OT, and address your good point that digital cards have great utility.
In a world where there was no paper MtG, where players never experienced the thrill of unwrapping the first booster in a fresh box, the smell of new card, you would be right.
But that's not the world we are in.
Digital cards will be compared to physical. Too most of us, they are viewed as inferior. This is true for several reasons. They are never possessed. They remain in custody of the vendor, who is willing to provide access so long as cashflow is in the black. People have an intuitive grasp of ownership, and digital ownership is inferior to physical ownership. And, of course, digital cards only appeal to one sense, and are not part of an organic, satisfying play experience that involves all the senses. After all, when we watch pro tour, we watch people playing live.
Had there never been the physical game, the digital version would be fine. I'm sure the bean counters at Hasbro rue this fact, since the margins for digital product must be superior. Even with all the money that must be poured into the platform, the lacking platform.
I'm finding it really hard to believe that someone is so adamant about digital only. Do you not enjoy the social aspect of Magic? I think it's honestly one of the most amazing things about the game. Inviting a bunch of people over on a Friday night for Cube/EDH and other formats is just great. I hate feeling like I'm playing against a robot the whole time.
Yes there is a danger to having your collection stolen or destroyed in some manner, but having cards you don't own online really isn't any safer. There IS a chance that somewhere down the road, Magic online might shut down. Magic: The Gathering may not be around for the rest of my lifetime. I'm happy to know that when I'm 70 (here's hoping) and I feel like teaching my great grandchildren how to play the game, I'll have that option.
Digital and paper both have their advantages, but it is absolutely ridiculous to favor Digital over paper.
If digital does become the only option, I better start practicing my communications.
"gg"
"Good luck, Have fun"
"Waiting for SgtMcQuacks"
"SgtMcQuacks has conceded"
"SgtMcQuacks has left the game"
Damn that feels good. It's like I just had an hour long debate with some friends.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10507340#post10507340
Youtube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/MtgMcQuacks
I'm pretty sure redemption is a huge thing, you can usually get sets online a lot cheaper than RL.
The cardboard and ink your card is printed with are worthless. MTG cards are only ever worth what a player will pay for them, in either real or digital form.
Not for nothing, but have online petitions ever accomplished anything?
I certainly understand people getting upset over something getting taken away, but you can't with a straight face say that anyone "deserves" to be able to play Magic Online for free.
As for people saying they will quit playing, if 1/10th of the people who said they were going to quit due to some perceived slight by Hasbro actually did so, MTG would have folded years ago. It certainly would not be breaking sales and attendance records with nearly every release.
The game is never replicated in Cockatrice, the game rules are never shown and only a life counter, some zones and some counters are implemented. Everything needed for any kind of card game that needs life. I'm sure it would be easy to play Pokemon or Yugi-Oh! on Cockatrice.
Cockatrice is a card game emulator and the card images aren't even in Cockatrice. The only thing they give us is something with the name of the sets released by Wizard if the Coast, not the cards. We provide the card database by running the Oracle Reader, which gives us the card names, effect, cost and everything else needed. We go search them directly on Gatherer, which is the open source database for Magic cards.
It's true that said Oracle Reader semi-automate the process and speed things up for everyone, but who in their right mind would really go check each cards one by one, write in that cards.xml file everything needed and implement it into Cockatrice manually. Guess what, this is faster and free. No one was bothered before, so why are they bothered now? Those are proxy games, no money is involved for tournaments held by particulars (compared to MWS) and everyone was happy.
Cockatrice doesn't infringe copyright, they don't host anything copyrighted by themselves, if they were, they would have been shut down long ago, and rightfully so.
Sending a C&D to cockatrice is not different to sending it to a playgroup that uses proxys to play.
The only reason Hasbro can do this is because they have corporation money, and small developers like brukie cant be expected to pay legal fees protecting something they don't see a single dime for, and instead choose to shut down. It's not because they are right, its only because they have more money. THAT's the way "legality" works in our time.
Also the "they're losing money" argument is total bs, if you haven't realized by now. Hasbro ain't gonna be seeing a single extra buck from cockatrice being shut down. The ppl who want to play MTG without paying will just resort to proxys, or any of the other countless programs you can play online with without paying.
You can't argue with a traditional hard-headed corporation the size of Hasbro, but they should just acknowledge that the world is a different place now that internet runs rampant, and they should realize that moves likes this is just bad PR that they don't actually profit from in any way, it just alienates them from potential customers.
I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be able to play for free online
I can only speak for myself but I have a hard time seeing how Hasbro can hope to shut down cockatrice considering cockatrice seems to conform to WotC terms of service. (EDIT: other than by massive financial threats of course)
Now I'm no expert so I could be way out to lunch on this but I think most people who have laid out fleshed out arguments as to why cockatrice getting shut down on the grounds that it is using images from The Gatherer database are right: if cockatrice gets shut down for using images that are available to all then we are going to have a serious problem internet wide.
I hear you, and Im sorry if my posts come across as cutting. I have been playing MTG since the very beginning, and while I understand your resistance to change regarding digital cards I implore you to give it a chance.
I ahd the exact same feeling about the digital cards in the beginning. But that was years ago, and many companies now offer digital goods for sale. At first I would only buy cards that were redeemable, figuring that if I ever really wanted to physical cards I would at least have an avenue. Now I could care less. I would never redeem my cards even if someone offered me a box of mint cards today.
Why not? Because I have almost no use for paper cards, mint condition or otherwise. I do not have time or desire to hunt down people to play magic with, and it would be impossible to play 10+ matches in a day even if I did. With MTGO I can play as much as I want whenever I want right from my desk. The digital game takes care of all of the rules, shuffling and record keeping so all I need to do is focus on playing the game.
I never lose a card, and I can use the same card in multiple decks something that is very difficult to do with paper. Eventually there will be an iPhone app that will let me play MTGO on the go. No need to cart around boxes of cards. Looking forward to that!
People seem to always hate change. Nostalgia is a powerful emotion. The good old days of cracking packs and holding cards from a new set were great. Hang on to those fond memories, I have plenty of them myself. But there is no need to ignore something better that is available just so you can keep trying to recreate those feelings.
Life goes on as they say. Cherish the good old days til your heart's content, but embrace the new ways. You can do so much more with the new ways, and that's a good thing.
IM pretty sure there is a way to play mtgo with a mac. It might require some effort on your part, but thats what you get for using fringe hardware. WOTC cant be expected to write software for every platform.
If I follow your train of thoughts correctly, you are clearly saying that we should trow everything made with paper and migrate to digital. Sorry to tell you this, but some of us are getting headaches just reading a virtual book.
Paper will always be needed. It's the oldest physical media in our history and has proven many times that it can stand the centuries in the right conditions. If we compare new tech to old tech, new tech is going to lose. A hard drive with mobile pieces is made of magnets, data encoding disks and reading needles while SSD is the same thing as a USB memory key.
They will eventually fail where paper will stay.
Now, on another note. Hasbro is sending C&D to any fanbase materials. Even the artist from a web comic was asked to shut down! Where's the right to express yourself here!
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act
So Cockatrice is legal and can't be objected.
Macs qualify as fringe hardware? If you'd said that about Linux, I could see it, but I think calling Macs fringe hardware is going a little far. Heck, you said you wanted there to be an Iphone app so you can do it on the go. Iphones and macs are made by the exact same company. I would think if you were going to release an app for the Iphone, you would also make your program available to Macs.
Great points, and I'm not saying I'll never make the switch. Hey, I did buy the platform and spent a few hours knocking around before giving up. Maybe when the MTGO platform is somewhat improved, and the barriers to making the jump are not so intimidating. Maybe I'm the only fuddyduddy like this, maybe I'm alone in this.
But the issue remains: a high number "legacy" physical players seem unready to make the jump. In this moment, there is a huge need for a digital "sandbox" for physical players to further their pursuit of this outstanding game. Maybe it's my ignorance of MTGO that keeps me from seeing that the answer is already here.
Or, maybe Hasbro is just going to take the hard line approach of "take it or leave it." Sadly, as things stand, for many the answer will be leave it. And I don't mean leave MtG altogether in a hissy fit, what I mean their total experience with the game will be limited, and the overall participation in the brand more confined. Personally, I'm not ready to make the tremendous investment when I don't know if it's worth it, because the MTGO platform doesn't let me make that determination without pouring in substantial money. Maybe that's all good with TPTB, and that's a legit decision, even if some will be left in the cold.