I've included my response within lion's quote. I don't know how to break it up like lion does. My responses are in bold, and they are not actually part of lion's original quote. Sorry if this makes things more confusing.
I do it by closing and reopening quote tags manually. As far as I know, there is no automated way to do it. If you want to see it, look no further than this very post's source code! You can see it hitting quote without then actually posting it.
I am very happy you like my changes. I was kind of nervous to bring them up since you did so much work on the story already. And yes, I like the vast majority of what you've laid out already. I eagerly anticipate your revision, and can't thank you enough for all your hard work here.
Admittedly, the first half almost changes completely, but I feel it's changing to be better, so I don't complain about that. At least the second half will still work with just a few adjustments, and I'm working on them as I write this. Just allow me a little more time to complete it and I'll post the revision.
So you like the Rattillion name? I was little worried that it sounds too much like reptilian. Everything else here is settled as far as I'm concerned.
I actually feel it's just fine, I can accept it but I don't love it. If we come up with something better we can change it, but as of now I don't have any better proposal to make here.
Yes, I can think of nothing better. Tilwin's clergy idea might be ok too, but I think ministry is the best option.
It definitely is. Let's just call them such.
It doesn't have to be, but I feel like the first block kind of focuses more on the Brotherhood, whereas the second block focuses more on the rebels. I wouldn't mind seeing them get equal time.
I wouldn't mind that too either, but I wonder if it's enough, especially given that I too was already thinking that:
This might be wrong though, since its not like the rebels aren't in the first block.
This is another reason for the double large in my mind. It seems difficult to jam another 'walker into the first set with the way it's setup. Especially if we aren't including Tezzeret.
This is THE MAIN reason to me. The problem of Tezzeret is that he just overlaps too much with Dahl, both in colors and in being an artificer.
I agree, and I love Tamiyo. She's actually my favorite planswalker for some reason. If we can work her in, I'm all for it. It would definitely be harder to justify why one of the major walkers would be there.
My favorite planeswalker is Ajani (who would have guessed?), but not because he's a lion, because of his backstory and philosophy. As a person, I'm heavily primary white, so I just naturally relate to him. Gideon and Elspeth too, but Ajani is my favorite of the three. I like very much Tamiyo too though. I'll think if there is a way to involve her in the second set. I'd like some of the minor planeswalker to be included there, but please leave Tibalt for that future block of mine (I've already thought of how to involve him there).
They can both end up at the same Correction Camp then
In fact this is exactly what I'm doing in my revision. (Spoilers!)
with Freigh awaiting "final enlightenment" (execution) for attempting to destroy the Isolation Network, which is a major infraction. 137-F is just there for a "re-education retreat" (or something like that, I think all Brotherhood related things should have positive names, even if they are quite negative, even Ministry of Guilt seems a bit harsh to me).
I agree with the positive name thing, and I'll try to work those names into my revision. I also agree about the word "Guilt" being too negative, but when thinking about the Ministries all the words I had for the black one were even more negative.
Yes, I still think the chips work. The Brotherhood wants people to see that people can be reformed, even the ones that actually can't. With so many people disappearing to the camps (or final enlightenment), the Brotherhood wants people to hold out hope that their loved ones may yet be "saved" (or at least rendered harmless) and then return to them. BTW ,the Brotherhood tries to never takes people away in broad daylight, and they never inform any of their survivors as to where they've gone, people are just left wondering.
Ok, very good. I'll also put that bit about the Brotherhood somewhere in my revision.
As long as everyone else is cool with it. I'm actually fine they're still located in the camps (your logic is sound), but I like the idea of Freigh and 137-F ending up in the same correction camp and breaking out together. I'm not sure the two ideas jive, but they could be made to if you feel strongly about it.
No, they don't really and don't have to. Beside that, I've already written that in my revision and I don't want to rewrite it a third time! Let's just not care where they are and say that they are sparse throughout Ormos with guards watching over them.
So your ok with leaving Tezzeret out? As I said, at this point, I think he's an unnecessary complication.
I've already touched on this above. In the end, I agree, and yes, I'm ok with leaving him out. It makes the story clearer and helps with the "Tezzeret overlapping Dahl" issue.
Are you also ok with Dahl taking over an already existing religion, then slowly making himself the god of it, as opposed to him making his own religion that he is already the god of? I definitely think him taking over an already existing religion is the way to go.
I am ok with the substance of it. I'd ask you and everybody else to pay attention to a seemingly small detail but that really hurts me: Dahl is a god (NOT capitalized). In fact I just corrected it in the quote. If you capitalize that word, that's where you're stepping onto real world religion and I don't really like it as you know. There is a BIG difference talking about a god and talking about God. I'm ok with the former (and in fact I'm ok with Theros gods for example), but NOT with the latter.
So you like the five philosophies idea over the five nations one? This would allow you to use the five nations one as you intended in a later block.
I'm ok with either one. Don't worry about my world, I have already adopted a different approach that I like much more, and we'll get to it eventually (I say we because I hope you'll be part of that team too when the time comes).
Story revision incoming.
EDIT: and here it is. Enjoy!
DETAILED PLOT
---INTRODUCTION TO THE FIRST SET---
Dahl is a human artificer planeswalker from an unknown plane. When he was still a young man on his homeplane, he served in the government, when he was caught developing a device that he planned to use to take the plane from the ruling party. For this, he is sentenced to death. During his execution, his spark ignites and he escapes with his life. The government of his homeplane sends out a few planeswalkers to find him and bring him back so that justice can be served. Among those planerwalkers who are chasing Dahl through the planes on behalf of the government, there is a female mad-looking and very young woman called Freigh. She is a red/green character mechanically focused on artifact destruction. Knowing her passion for smashing things just for the fun of it, the government hired her thinking "who best to send after an artificer?".
After a bit of time on the run, Dahl eventually finds Ormos. Ormos is a young and fairly undeveloped plane on the outskirts of the multiverse, remote and somewhat inconsequential, therefore it is not visited by planeswalkers very much. The citizens of Ormos are somewhat primitive when compared to citizens from other planes, and have been locked in a planewide holy war for times untold. The sides of this holy war are divided as such:
W - Clerics, who believe in a single god that is the absolute ruler of all things. Main race: Humans. U - Atheists, who believe in no "superstitions". They consider themselves to be scientific people, and would prefer the "religious zealots" not stand in the way of progress. Main race: Vedalken. B - Worshippers of death. They believe that only in death can one be set free, and that the body is just a vessel to be used. Main race: Ratillions (new Rat-folk race). R - Shamans believing in a mysticism that is dependent upon personal growth through individual experience. Main races: Viashino and Goblins (I see no reason to not include both here). G - Druids that believe in the ultimate power of nature. Main race: Elves.
Each of these sects believes that their philosophy is the only correct philosophy, which causes the five sects to be at constant war. Each sect has a main race, which is the race of the majority of its members, but there is not a biunique correspondence between sects and races. Each sect includes some members of other races as well. The plane is divided along philosophical lines more so than racial ones.
Upon coming to Ormos, Dahl soon comes to believe it to be the best place to hide from the planeswalkers seeking him. He also immediately realizes the opportunity such a plane gives him to gain power for himself, so he sets about exploiting the religious chaos that is the plane of Ormos. He aligns himself with the Cleric faction of the war, and claims to be a messenger from their god. The Clerics don’t have a hard time buying that because of Dahl's charisma and power, as they haven’t seen a lot of planeswalkers. Also, they clearly see that the powerful Dahl may be just the advantage they need to win the war. With Dahl on their side, the Clerics quickly gain an advantage over the rest of the factions on the plane, and eventually establish their own religion as the one true religion, with Dahl as its leader.
Once this happens, Dahl begins to preach unity and brotherhood for all of the Ormosian citizens, up to calling the religion itself "the Brotherhood". His preachings are imposed as a law, and soon Dahl builds structures to punish those that he calls the "guilty", meaning everyone who committed even a slight infraction, despite how little it may be. After all, the law is useless if you don't enforce it. He builds two types of camps, sparse throughout Ormos with guards watching over them. Those are:
• The Workcamps, where prisoners are forced to work too many hours a day as a punishment for what they did.
• The Correction Camps, where the most difficult prisoners are punished. Correction Camps execute all kinds of sentences and punishments, always involving a heavy prison regime, often involving torture and brainwashing, and including death sentences in the worst cases.
Normally, the first infraction brings you to a Workcamp, while the second one, or another infraction while you're in a Workcamp, gets you to a Correction Camp. But if you commit a particular serious crime, you may also be sent directly to a Correction Camp. Obviously all camps have a lot of guards keeping things under control.
Anyway, the Brotherhood wants people to see that people can be reformed, even the ones that actually can't. With so many people disappearing to the camps or "reaching final enlightenment" (aka "being sentenced to death"), the Brotherhood wants people to hold out hope that their loved ones may yet be "saved" (aka "rendered harmless", sometimes including chip implants) and then return to them. The Brotherhood tries to never take people away in broad daylight, and they never inform any of their survivors as to where they've gone, people are just left wondering.
In order to appease the remaining factions, Dahl appoints each faction its own division within the governing body. Such divisions are called "Ministries". The previous sects end up being transformed into the various Ministries that have been set up by the Brotherhood, although any adherence to their old teachings is strictly forbidden as blasphemy. The Brotherhood also makes it difficult to adhere to the old ways by erasing all history of them from media and textbooks. The Ministries are as follows:
W - Ministry of Order: it deals with making laws, maintaining public order, managing all the camps except for Correction Camps, and propaganda. U - Ministry of Truth: it deals with information and education, constantly making sure that all the schools and the analogue of the media spread the "right" information. B - Ministry of Guilt: it deals with torture and brainwashing, using them to punish the "guilty" (where the name comes from), which actually are anyone who committed even a slight infraction, no matter how small it can be. It manages the Correction Camps, using those means at full extent to "re-educate" the prisoners. R - Ministry of Industry: it deals with actually producing the devices Dahl designs, like chips (represented by the new Implant subtype), drones, and such. It's actually made up by Viashino and Goblin slaves working in factory assembly lines. G - Ministry of Agriculture: it deals with managing the food and waste systems for camps, schools, public offices and all population really.
Although Dahl has built a system of strict laws, surveillance and punishment, he still mostly controls his people through religion and re-education. When someone is caught doing wrong on Ormos, most of the citizens think this person should be punished. This often includes the person being punished. People are generally afraid to express their feelings of discontent because they are never sure if the person they are talking to will blow them in for what they are saying, whether the person is a Brotherhood agent or just an average citizen. It takes a long time to trust anybody on Ormos under Dahl's regime, even your own family might turn you in to the authorities in order to "save" you.
After Dahl is firmly entrenched as the ruler of Ormos, he quickly puts the Ministry of Truth to work, rewriting history and "teaching" (aka brainwashing) the population the orthodoxy of the newfound Brotherhood. While doing so, he eventually transforms himself from a disciple of the Cleric's god, to a god himself, acquiring the name of "Father Dahl".
He soon creates a network of devices called the "Isolating Network" to isolate Ormos from the rest of the Multiverse, allowing no other planeswalker to enter or leave the plane, reinforcing his power as self-imposed god. This traps Freigh, who had finally tracked Dahl to Ormos in the meantime. Realizing she can’t defeat Dahl herself, as he now has the entire plane under his command, she sets about recruiting help. This is the beginning of the Rebellion, which begins quite slowly at first due to Dahl’s complete influence over the minds of the Ormosians. In fact, it takes a few years for the Rebellion to start gaining enough momentum.
---END OF INTRODUCTION---
---FIRST SET STARTS HERE---
The first set starts here, with the Brotherhood already firmly entrenched, the Isolation Network already in place, and the Rebellion starting to enter its middle stages.
After some years, in addition to keeping on looking for help, Freigh is finding and destroying the devices making up the Isolation Network. While attempting to destroy the last one, she is caught and sent directly to a Correction Camp, waiting for a sentence. Her case is of unprecedented gravity, so it will take a long time to judge.
In the meantime, in Workcamp 78 an unfortunate event happens: a woman prisoner gets pregnant. As usual in these cases (a few other ones have happened before), the father is immediately sent to a Correction Camp, while the mother stays in the Workcamp until the end of her pregnancy. When the baby is born, she is sent to a Correction Camp too (a different one of course), and the baby is given a number and stays in the Workcamp, passing there all their life. This baby is a female and has been assigned the number 137-F, where the F stands for "female". She grows in Workcamp 78 while being exposed to different prisoners that come and go from the camp. Some of those prisoners tell her of the starting Rebellion against the Brotherhood, and as she always wondered how it was like to live on the outside with freedom in your hands, she becomes fascinated by those tales and starts developing a desire to possibly join the Rebellion one day.
When she comes of age, 137-F finally decides to attempt to escape Workcamp 78 but she's caught and sent to a Correction Camp for a "re-education retreat" (aka "brainwashing"). That Correction Camp happens to be the same one where Freigh has been imprisoned all this time. Freigh has been sentenced to "find final enlightenment" (aka "be executed") in the meantime. They meet in this camp, quickly becoming friends and deciding to try to escape. Freigh has never felt like trying that alone, and 137-F has the experience of her previous failed attempt. Together, they start planning an escape, and eventually their plan works.
Together they also decide to attempt again to destroy the final device of the Isolation Network. Freigh knows where it is located, so she takes 137-F there with her. Freigh takes her sword, empowered with Rebel magic, and hits the Network device, destroying it. It was the last one: it had within itself all the magical energy of the whole Network. That energy bursts out in a huge explosion that kills Freigh and blinds 137-F, almost killing her too. She just has the time to take Freigh's magical sword in her hand before feeling like passing out.
---FIRST SET ENDS HERE---
---BRIDGE STARTS HERE---
She finds herself somewhere unknown. This is her first planeswalk, and her spark just ignited with no Isolating Network anymore to keep her on Ormos, but she doesn't know all of that yet. She looks around herself and finds some people. She tries to tell them what just happened to her, but they seem to not understand. One of them proposes to bring her to one of their mages, maybe he would understand her. They bring her to her village, where she's brought to XYZ (insert male returning planeswalker here, possibly white). She explains to him what happened and he immediately understands. He tells her about the spark, the Multiverse, and introduces her to what planeswalking means. Her mind is blown away by all of this, she wanted to experience what freedom was like, but this was even more than all she could ever have hoped for! XYZ invites her to stay with him at least for a few days, as long as she needed to recover. She agrees. In those days, she tells him all about Ormos, the Brotherhood, the camps, the Rebellion, and asks him for his help. He gladly agrees. During those days, they also start feeling something for each other. One day, she tells him that she has no name except for a number. XYZ is horrified at the thought of people being just numbers and offers to give her himself a name. She loves the idea, and actually loves him too. He names her Ziarn, which means "seed", as in both this being just the "seed" of her journey as a planeswalker, and her being hopefully the "seed" of the Rebellion on Ormos. As soon as she recovers her strength, she asks him to come with her back to Ormos and help the Rebellion. He agrees, and they both planeswalk to Ormos.
---END OF BRIDGE---
---SECOND SET STARTS HERE---
As they arrive on Ormos, Ziarn's attention is caught by a small group of Rebels talking to each other and wondering what happened to Freigh, who has disappeared since a few days ago. She walks to them and explains them what happened and that Freigh is dead and she was there. They immediately bring her in a hideout, where all the highest ranked Rebels were meeting to decide what to do after Freigh's sudden disappearance. They stop the meeting, asking them to listen to what this woman has to say. She tells everything to them too, bringing Freigh's sword, which she still has with herself, as proof. They believe her and they tell her that Freigh was actually their leader, and as she helped her and was there during the heroic (from their point of view) act that caused Freigh's death, they ask her to become the new leader of the Rebellion. She enthusiastically accepts and leads the Rebellion to victory. How that victory is exactly achieved will be the focus of the second set.
(Insert story of how the Rebellion wins here. We'll make it when we arrive to the second set.)
In the end, the Rebellion is victorious, the Brotherhood falls, and Dahl planeswalks away choosing that over certain death by Rebel hands. Freigh, who was the one looking after Dahl on Ormos on behalf of Dahl's homeplane government, is dead without having captured him, so one thing is for sure: Dahl is still free and still chased by other planeswalkers sent by the government throughout the planes. This leaves us the possibility to make another block with Dahl in the future.
---END OF SECOND SET---
---END OF THE BLOCK---
TIMELINE SUMMARY
(Time zero is the start of the first set.)
---INTRODUCTION STARTS HERE---
- 32 years: A young Dahl is sentenced to death on his unknown homeplane when his spark ignites. The government sends various planeswalkers, among which a very young Freigh, looking after him through the planes in a multi-planar chase.
- 30 years: Dahl comes to Ormos, where the "holy" war between the sects is going on.
- 28/29 years: Dahl becomes the leader of the Cleric's religion. Under his lead, they quickly win the war.
- 26/27 years: Dahl builds the camps and creates the Ministries out of the former sects.
- 25 years: The Ministry of Truth starts rewriting history. Dahl establishes himself as a god under the name of "Father Dahl".
- 22/23 years: Dahl creates the Isolating Network, trapping Freigh on Ormos. Freigh starts recruiting help. This is the start of the Rebellion.
- 10 years: Freigh discovers about the Isolating Network and starts breaking its devices throughout the plane of Ormos.
---INTRODUCTION ENDS HERE---
---FIRST SET STARTS HERE---
At time zero:
• The Brotherhood is already firmly entrenched, the Isolation Network is already in place, and the Rebellion is starting to enter its middle stages.
• Freigh is caught while trying to break the last device of the Isolating Network and sent to the Correction Camp, waiting for a sentence. Her case is of unprecedented gravity, so it will take a long time to judge.
• In Workcamp 78, 137-F is born.
+ 16/17 years: Freigh is sentenced to "find final enlightenment" (aka "be executed").
+ 18/19 years: 137-F tries to escape Workcamp 78 but is caught and sent to the same Correction Camp as Freigh for a "re-education retreat" (aka "brainwashing"). They meet there, become friends, and plan their escape.
+ 20 years: Their plan works and they escape the Correction Camp. They reach the last device of the Isolating Network and destroy it. The explosion kills Freigh and ignites 137-F's spark.
---FIRST SET ENDS HERE---
137-F meets XYZ on her first planeswalk plane. XYZ names her Ziarn. After a few days, they come back to Ormos.
---SECOND SET STARTS HERE---
Ziarn is anointed leader of the Rebellion.
+ 22/23 years: Ziarn thinks their time has come, and leads the Rebellion's revolt against the Brotherhood (details to be established later when we come to designing the second set).
+ 25 years: The Rebellion wins. The Brotherhood falls, and Dahl planeswalks away, still free but chased by other planeswalkers sent by his homeplane's government.
---SECOND SET ENDS HERE---
---BLOCK ENDS HERE---
PLANESWALKER BREAKDOWN
First set (Brotherhood of Ormos):
• Father Dahl (WUB, focusing on law and artifice)
• Freigh (RG, focusing on artifact destruction)
• 137-F, Camp Worker as a monowhite mythic rare Human Rebel legendary creature.
Second set:
• Ziarn (ex 137-F) (RW, focusing on building an army of small creatures and then pumping them, which I envision being her leading the Rebels to battle)
• XYZ (at least W, maybe mono W, as we've not yet included a monocolored planeswalker. Again, Gideon would probably fit perfectly, but we'll have to see BFZ's storyline)
• A returning "minor" planeswalker (possibly not white) who happens to be on Ormos. He/she doesn't have to tie into the main storyline, he/she can just have his/her own side storyline here. Me and Flatline would like this to be Tamiyo, if we're able to fit her in.
Features/notes:
• Two males (Dahl and XYZ), two females (Freigh and 137-F/Ziarn), and one unknown. Whichever gender the returning minor planeswalker is, we have the best balance (a 2/3 split).
• A double large block with a 2/3 planeswalker split, that is actually more of a 2.5/3 split because of 137-F's legendary creature card in the first set.
• The two main characters of the Rebellion (Freigh and Ziarn) are female, which feels appropriate and ironic for the Brotherhood treating them as second class citizens. Even those who might feel bad at first about that representation should like the fact that in the end it's exactly a female who leads the Rebellion to victory. There is a nice kind of redemption story hidden there.
• The second set doesn't only have planeswalkers on the Rebellion side, but also the minor returning one who should not care about the Brotherhood/Rebellion fight.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Everything you're writing sounds great, and again I can't thank you enough for the work you're doing. You are much better at organizing all the thoughts in a coherent way than I am. I just want to make sure you know how appreciative I am of that.
The reason I keep capitalizing god when I talk about Dahl is because his religion has only one god, which I think warrants the capitalization, but I'm fine not doing so if you feel uncomfortable with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Everything you're writing sounds great, and again I can't thank you enough for the work you're doing. You are much better at organizing all the thoughts in a coherent way than I am. I just want to make sure you know how appreciative I am of that.
I mostly do it to not lose track myself of where we are, but knowing others appreciate what you do feels great! Thanks!
The reason I keep capitalizing god when I talk about Dahl is because his religion has only one god, which I think warrants the capitalization, but I'm fine not doing so if you feel uncomfortable with it.
Yes, I really do. I'm sorry, but I've told you before that is a sensitive point to me. I'd really appreciate you and others paying attention to that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Everything you're writing sounds great, and again I can't thank you enough for the work you're doing. You are much better at organizing all the thoughts in a coherent way than I am. I just want to make sure you know how appreciative I am of that.
I mostly do it to not lose track myself of where we are, but knowing others appreciate what you do feels great! Thanks!
The reason I keep capitalizing god when I talk about Dahl is because his religion has only one god, which I think warrants the capitalization, but I'm fine not doing so if you feel uncomfortable with it.
Yes, I really do. I'm sorry, but I've told you before that is a sensitive point to me. I'd really appreciate you and others paying attention to that.
I know that is a sensitive point for you, and the last thing I would ever want to do is offend anyone (especially you), I just wasn’t looking at the capitalization of god as being particular to any one religion. I am certainly always trying to be cognizant of your feelings on the matter, and I assure you that I would never step over the line intentionally. If I have already done so, please accept my sincerest apology.
Edit: BTW, I'm fine not capitalizing it, and will stop doing so moving forward.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I just found this thread and like the idea a lot! One thing that I don't like as much is the presence of elves. They just don't seem to fit the plane. Maybe you could try a green race of Mutants created as law enforcement thugs by Dahl's regime?
Then the races would look like this: W:
Primary: Humans
Secondary: Archons? (This was mentioned a little bit ago)
U:
Primary: Vedalken
Secondary: Not discussed yet, maybe drakes? Illusions?
B:
Primary: Rat-Folk
Secondary: Not discussed yet, maybe thrulls? They fit the idea of the Brotherhood very well.
R:
Primary: Goblins
Secondary: Viashino
G:
Primary: Mutants
Secondary: Not discussed yet, no ideas here.
I just found this thread and like the idea a lot! One thing that I don't like as much is the presence of elves. They just don't seem to fit the plane. Maybe you could try a green race of Mutants created as law enforcement thugs by Dahl's regime?
Then the races would look like this: W:
Primary: Humans
Secondary: Archons? (This was mentioned a little bit ago)
U:
Primary: Vedalken
Secondary: Not discussed yet, maybe drakes? Illusions?
B:
Primary: Rat-Folk
Secondary: Not discussed yet, maybe thrulls? They fit the idea of the Brotherhood very well.
R:
Primary: Goblins
Secondary: Viashino
G:
Primary: Mutants
Secondary: Not discussed yet, no ideas here.
Colorless:
Maybe thopters?
Hi sperlman, glad to hear you like the idea. I too am not sure about Elves as the green race (this was actually discussed a while ago in the thread), but I'm not sure I want to see the Brotherhood delve into genetic engineering. Since we are already kind of creating a new race with Ratillions, I'd really like green to be an already existing race, but agree that Elves is might not be the right one. I'd like whatever race it is to make sense for green's Druidic philosophies as I've laid them out above (which Elves very much are). Treefolk would work, but I see them as having the same problem as Elves for the block, but even more so. Would snake people work? That would be stealing yet another Kamigawa idea for a pseudo-new race. I'm not sure I see them as worshippers of nature though. What other previously existing green races are there that would make sense here?
Edit: What about Ape-Folk, a la Planet of the Apes. They could be called Siminians or something like that. Still we may be better off not creating another new race (although Ratillions are new only in name.)
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
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I personally still don't see the reason why (a possibly twisted kind of) Elves wouldn't work. Anyway, I like the proposal of using Apes, which, by the way, happen to be an already supported and existing race. I also like the idea of using two races per color, and I already came to a similar conclusion thinking about Viashino and Goblins in red. Instead, I don't like the idea of the primitive humans because I feel it clashes with how much the Brotherhood is supposed to have conditioned the minds of Ormosians.
EDIT: As I often say, I draw at MaRo level, so I went to search deviantart for images of the kind of elves I have in mind: something like this, this, or this. I can totally see such kind of dark elves in a dystopian environment. A little less dark maybe to avoid them looking more black than green, but the concept I have in mind is similar to this.
EDIT 2: If we use the double race model, we might use such Elves as primary and Apes as secondary for green.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Before sperlman raised the Elf issue again, I had resigned myself to the fact that we would use Elves, and I'm still fine with that (the main problem I have with them is that I can't see them succumbing to Dahl). I'm not sure they have to be dark(er) Elves though. I picture the vast majority of citizens on Ormos actually believing that what they are doing is the right (moral) thing to do. Even when they are fulfilling Dal's evil wishes, they are convinced that they are doing "god's" work. Before Dahl came, the plane was locked into a long running war that was divided along philosophical lines. Since Dahl took over as the leader of the plane, there has been peace and unity. Sure your brother or sister might just disappear out of the blue one night never to be seen again, but that was the price that had to be paid for peace and order. Anyway, sinners get what sinners deserve, and if your brother or sister is taken away by the Brotherhood, they must have done something wrong. Also, more often than not, your lost loved one would return to you a new and better person anyways, thanks to Father Dahl.
Do Ape-Folk already exist in magic? I know there are Apes (Kird Ape), but I can't think of any that have human level intelligence. Am I just forgetting something?
As far as other creature types are concerned, I would love to have Aven, Leonin or both in the block. To be honest, if I thought I could get away with it, I would have the primary green race be Leonin, but I know they're primarily white. I'm also wondering if it might not be a bad idea to have some races such as Zombies, Specters, and maybe even a few Vampires. This would give Dahl something he could be protecting his citizens from beyond just each other. I think it might work to make these creatures more of a perceived threat perpetuated by the Brotherhood than a real one, if you catch my drift. IT would seem we have red covered. I'm not sure about blue beyond Vedalken. I don't think I want Merfolk. I love Faeries, but can't see them here. I'm not sure where to go with blue. I definitely see there being Humans in all colors, but centered in white, kinda like Innistrad.
I would love to start brainstorming some mechanics soon. I still haven't thought of anything I am in love with.
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So, just to clarify, are we willing to go with two main races per color?
I'll do some research on those creature types you mentioned. (*) I'd obviously love to have Leonin too, and I have no problem with Avens. I was thinking about Vampires too. I think I understand your intention: using such (not necessarily real) threats to instill fear in people to better control them. Thinking of humanoid races, Ainok just came to my mind. Could they be one of the green races?
About Elves, those were what I had in mind to adapt them to a dystopian world, but if we can just use normal Elves that's even better! As I said, I see no problems with them living on Ormos.
As soon as we have a story nobody objects to at least (or that everyone likes at best), we can start thinking about mechanics. Don't forget we already have detain and Implants.
EDIT
(*) There have been some sentient Apes on Dominaria according to the wiki:
Quote from wiki »
Yavimaya Gorillas
The gorillas of Yavimaya, at some point during or before the Flood Ages, became a sentient, tribal culture, led by Gorilla Chieftains. They fought against the vines and plant-life that attacked them.
A Gorilla Chieftain had Laina and Kaysa brought to him by his magic-wielding gorilla shamans and warriors; he allied his people with the elves, and aided in the attack against the Heart of Yavimaya, which cleansed the forest. The Yavimayan Gorillas were later seen fighting during the Phyrexian Invasion in the battles for Yavimaya and Urborg.
Other Apes, including Sultai ones on Tarkir's Khans timeline, don't seem to be sentient or intelligent, but Dominaria ones constitute a valid precedent in my opinion if we want to go that way. I still think Elves are better though, with Ainok if we want two races.
A new thought I just had: maybe Elves not being easily subjugated by Dahl can be a good thing. Could they be the first to join the Rebellion and give it some momentum in its earliest stages?
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Ah Ainok yes! I actually meant to include them in my previous post and forgot. They are definitely a good candidate for green. I was thinking about them on my car ride to work this morning.
As far as two races per color...I don't think we have to hold to this strictly, but I have no problem with having two main races for each color. Although I can see some creatures appearing in other colors a bit (such as white Ainok), and I said I said before, I see Humans in all colors, but centered in white.
I'm glad you parenthetically added the "or everyone likes best", because I didn't mean to object to the story as it was (it was quite good), it's just that I have certain vision in my head, and I just want to get it out there, even if we decide to go a different way.
I agree that we need to tackle things one at a time, and we need a more solid grasp on the story and creature types before moving forward, I'm just excited to think up some mechanics. I feel like we're going to hit on something great, even if I don't know what that is yet.
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First, I'm not sure you saw the edit to my previous post, where I said: maybe Elves not being easily subjugated by Dahl can be a good thing. Could they be the first to join the Rebellion and give it some momentum in its earliest stages?
I like the last version of the story I put together from our ideas (what I called "Leo's story 2.0"), and I think and assume you like it too. I'd really like to hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion on that story. If they like it too, or at least are ok with it, we lock it. That would be a major advancement, and the first we need to do right now, but until they don't tell us about that we can't know.
Then we will lock the main creature types. I thought of Ainok because I love them by the way! They and Leonin are two races I'd really like to work with here.
My proposal about creature types. This doesn't exclude a few cards with different creature types, but these are the major ones. W - primary: Humans - secondary: Leonin, Aven U - primary: Vedalken - secondary: unknown B - primary: Ratillions (creature type Rat) - secondary: Vampires, Zombies R - primary: Viashino - secondary: Goblins G - primary: Elves - secondary: Ainok (creature type Hound)
Again, I suppose you like this as well as I do and I'd like to hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion. Maybe they can also have an idea for a secondary blue race. If they like this, it's a lock too.
Then we can finally start thinking about mechanics. Do you remember my earlier suggestion to have a 3/2 Brotherhood/Rebels split in mechanics that reverts to 2/3 in the Rebel's favor in the second set (dropping Implants and creating a new additional Rebel mechanic for the second set)? Well, it's still valid. I'd still like to do that. To make a point of where we were, we missed a "caste" mechanic as the third one for the Brotherhood, a "breaking the law" mechanic for the Rebels, and an additional one capturing a different aspect of the Rebels. Once that is done, we design cards (finally!) starting with the commons and going up in rarity.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I totally missed lion's story v 2.0 until a few minutes ago! I just read it, and I think it's great! There a few minor things I'll bring up (probably tomorrow), but they are very minor, and mostly (maybe entirely) involve the timeline (the reason I don't want to post them yet is because I need more time to think about it before I post. It might actually be perfect as is). Anyway excellent job yet again bravelion83. I'm glad I have you on my side.
While reading the story I thought of the name "Ministry of Redemption" for the black ministry. I like it a lot better than "Ministry of Guilt". What do you think? I also wouldn't mind renaming the green one, but I'm less sure about that. I was think something like "Ministry of Blessings" since it's the one that provides the food. As I said though, I'm not sure about the green one, I just thought I'd throw it out there. The black one I definitely like.
Here's my response to lion's last post. As usual, my comments are bold.....
I like the last version of the story I put together from our ideas (what I called "Leo's story 2.0"), and I think and assume you like it too. I'd really like to hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion on that story. If they like it too, or at least are ok with it, we lock it. That would be a major advancement, and the first we need to do right now, but until they don't tell us about that we can't know.
I like it too (a lot). See above. I am also curious to hear from Indighost and Tilwin. What do you guys think? Lion and I have gone pretty deep now, do you guys like where we are?
Then we will lock the main creature types. I thought of Ainok because I love them by the way! Them and Leonin are two races I'd really like to work with here.
My proposal about creature types. This doesn't exclude a few cards with different creature types, but these are the major ones. W - primary: Humans - secondary: Leonin, Aven U - primary: Vedalken - secondary: unknown B - primary: Ratillions (creature type Rat) - secondary: Vampires, Zombies R - primary: Viashino - secondary: Goblins G - primary: Elves - secondary: Ainok (creature type Hound)
Again, I suppose you like this as well as I do and I'd like to hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion. Maybe they can also have an idea for a secondary blue race. If they like this, it's a lock too.
Yes, I'm good with this. Even Elves. The only one I need to think about further is Vampires.
Then we can finally start thinking about mechanics. Do you remember my earlier suggestion to have a 3/2 Brotherhood/Rebels split in mechanics that reverts to 2/3 in the Rebel's favor in the second set (dropping Implants and creating a new additional Rebel mechanic for the second set)? Well, it's still valid. I'd still like to do that. To make a point of where we were, we missed a "caste" mechanic as the third one for the Brotherhood, a "breaking the law" mechanic for the Rebels, and an additional one capturing a different aspect of the Rebels. Once that is done, we design cards (finally!) starting with the commons and going up in rarity.
I think the 3/2 - 2/3 mechanic split (dropping Chips) makes perfect sense. We should also come up with some geography and town names, etc before making cards too. We still haven't fleshed out the environment (including non-sentient creatures) very much yet.
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i read bravelion's blog post a few hours ago and if you still have a problem with rebels breaking the law, i have an idea or two.
if you make those laws into enchantments with the subtype law, you could give rebels a triggered ability that exiles law enchantments(maybe some rebel exile all, maybe some only one or two) until end of turn.
or a mad idea: a return of phasing!
the triggered rebel ability gives all law enchantments phasing until your next turn and phase them out.
gameplaywise it would mean the law is "ignored(the card is still on the battlefield,just not active)" and returns when the brotherhood begins it's turn.
EDIT:
extra idea for the implants:
Thoughtreader?
artifact - equiment implant?
implant(can equip only creatures your opponents control)
equipped creature has "this creature cant attack unless you reveal X random cards from your hand.(maybe some effect here depending on revealed colors?)"
or
equipped creature has"at the beginning of your upkeep reveal X random cards from your hand.(again maybe some colorhate?)"
I actually thought of the same exact idea as the law one you are suggesting, including having the Rebels break them. As a matter of fact, I believe one of the example cards from OP still has the law subtype on it. The problem with this is, outside of the block it would mean nothing unless the laws themselves did something new. The Rebels interacting with them wouldn't make sense outside of the block. The Thoughreader idea is an interesting one. I'll keep it in mind when we get to card development. Thanks for the suggestions.
What if in the first set, the brotherhood (Which, at that time, controls the plane) is centered in WUB and the upstart rebellion is centered in RG (which can help reinforce the "white gone bad" theme), and in the second set, with the victory of the rebels, they "conquer" a color (most likely black) from the brotherhood, as they are now the dominant faction and have a higher percentage of cards?
The problem, of course, is that 137 is white, and wants to be in a central color of the rebellion, but again, this is just a cool idea I thought of.
This is also a good idea, but I think I like where we are at as far as color distribution is concerned at this point. Thanks for the input though, it is much appreciated.
Edit: BTW, I wouldn't touch phasing with a 10 ft. pole. And honestly, banding would make more sense for the block.
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We could have more "monstrous" vampires (Like Kheru Bloodsucker or Skeletal Vampire) instead of the normal, sentient, aristocratic vampires as a fictitious threat that the brotherhood created. Ainok make perfect sense for green. Maybe they should even be the primary color in the first set and work as, well, guard dogs. I could also see faeries as the secondary blue race, working as spies and secret agents for the brotherhood.
I totally missed lion's story v 2.0 until a few minutes ago! I just read it, and I think it's great! There a few minor things I'll bring up (probably tomorrow), but they are very minor, and mostly (maybe entirely) involve the timeline (the reason I don't want to post them yet is because I need more time to think about it before I post. It might actually be perfect as is). Anyway excellent job yet again bravelion83. I'm glad I have you on my side.
I also have my own small uncertainties about the timeline, and I admit a few numbers are almost random, but I'd like to see yours before saying mine.
While reading the story I thought of the name "Ministry of Redemption" for the black ministry. I like it a lot better than "Ministry of Guilt". What do you think?
In-story it fits perfectly, but in the color pie redemption is not exactly a black concept, even if I still can't find positive sounding words there. We can just say it's due to the Brotherhood's naming system.
I also wouldn't mind renaming the green one, but I'm less sure about that. I was think something like "Ministry of Blessings" since it's the one that provides the food.
Same as before. Fits perfectly in-story, not so much in the color pie.
Yes, I'm good with this. Even Elves. The only one I need to think about further is Vampires.
I think we just have to find the right role for them, even though at the moment I don't have any precise idea.
We should also come up with some geography and town names, etc before making cards too. We still haven't fleshed out the environment (including non-sentient creatures) very much yet.
True, add that too to the list. But now I'd like to pause again for a moment until we hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion on the story and creature types.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I just realized I never answered a question lion posed to me a few posts back....Yes, I can envision a scenario where the Elves are some of the first to join the rebellion. That is a good way to take advantage of the fact that Elves would have a hard time with Dahl's rule. Also, I see Dahl as having a few members from each race/sect as his top advisors. These advisors would be the ones to keep their people in line directly, and only they would actually be in on the fact that Dahl's religion is just a sham. Even Elves get power hungry sometimes.
As far as Ministry of Redemption is concerned, I know redemption isn't part of black's pie, but that is kind of the point. In 1984, all the ministries have names that are basically the opposite of their real goal (the Ministry of Plenty made sure that people barely had enough to survive, etc.). I'm certainly not suggesting that the black ministry would break the color pie in any way.
I'll take a better look at the timeline later tonight. I didn't have a lot of time to actually think about it last night, so I'm not even positive I would want to change anything. I'll post my thoughts on that later, but I'll try not to make any further suggestions so that Tilwin and Indighost have time to give their input.
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We could have more "monstrous" vampires (Like Kheru Bloodsucker or Skeletal Vampire) instead of the normal, sentient, aristocratic vampires as a fictitious threat that the brotherhood created. Ainok make perfect sense for green. Maybe they should even be the primary color in the first set and work as, well, guard dogs. I could also see faeries as the secondary blue race, working as spies and secret agents for the brotherhood.
Having more animalistic Vampires could potentially solve the problem I have with Vampires in the set, but at that point you almost have Zombies, so why not just have Zombies? I'm still not sure I like Vampires in this setting. Faeries are one of my favorite creature types, and I would love to work them into the set, but I feel like they are a bit too magical for the Brotherhood to "tame". I have an even bigger problem seeing them following Dahl than I do Elves. I guess I could be wrong here though.
Edit: BTW, I see Zombies on Ormos (if we have them) as being more the shambling mindless type than the sentient, wizard/warrior type.
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I'm not sure necromancy should be common in Ormos. It dosen't fit the whole "perfect" dogma of the brotherhood, and zombies are not particularly good soldiers unless they come in a huge horde. I'm not saying we shouldn't have undead, but maybe we should have less than normal.
I'm not sure necromancy should be common in Ormos. It dosen't fit the whole "perfect" dogma of the brotherhood, and zombies are not particularly good soldiers unless they come in a huge horde. I'm not saying we shouldn't have undead, but maybe we should have less than normal.
I don't think necromancy should be very common either, but it would be something the Ratillions were familiar with prior to Dahl's rise. I can envision a scenario where Dahl has a super-secret camp of Ratillions slaving away a making Zombies, not to use as an army in any way, but just for something he can use to help keep people on their toes. The Zombie threat wouldn't be great, but Dahl could still use it. What if Dahl told people that they would turn into Zombies if they weren't faithful to him? As a punishment they would forever roam the land as a mindless flesh starved Zombie. A kind of hell on earth. This is just thinking aloud though. Other than the not having armies of Zombies part, that I know I don't want. Dahl is an artificer, not a necromancer.
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Between yesterday and today, I've been having a pm conversation with Flatline, in which, among other things, he proposed the following mechanic as the third mechanic for the Brotherhood:
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn't brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.)
This mechanic exploits monstrosity/renown technology, but kind of reverses it. In my opinion, it's very flavorful for the Brotherhood. Obviously, there would be cards referencing brainwashed creatures and triggers like "Whenever a creature an opponent controls becomes brainwashed" and such.
I just have two remarks:
• First, it forces us to only use -1/-1 counters throughout the block. That's not necessarily a problem, just a thing we must be aware of as it heavily shapes the mechanical design. It's such a great fit for the Brotherhood though that I personally would have no problem with this.
• Second, I'd say that it also forces us to use -1/-1 counters ONLY or MOSTLY as brainwash markers. If there are too many other ways to put -1/-1 counters, it becomes difficult to recognize a brainwashed creature by the counter. I don't know how many +1/+1 counter-creating cards there were in Origins except for renown or in Theros block except for monstrosity. I'll have to check, but I think this is an aspect that we would totally have to consider too.
Flatline replied with the following:
Quote from Flatline »
Honestly, the idea of -1/-1 counters never occurred to me for the block before, so I have no problem limiting it to just brainwash. We could still make cards that interact with -1/-1 counters (ie remove them, or add them), but it's not like I can see anything like wither in the block. The biggest problem I see with the -1/-1 counter thing is that it prevents us from using +1/+1 counters, but I think I can live with that. Would it be totally out of the question to have -1/-1 counters in the first block, but +1/+1 counters in the second? It seems like it could work if the block was large-large, and the two sets were drafted separately, but maybe not. I do like it as a representation of the change that occurs on Ormos from the beginning of the block to the end. When the Brotherhood is in charge, the plane is all negativity, but when the rebellion starts to rise, people begin to get their positivity back.
Quote from bravelion83 »
Would it be totally out of the question to have -1/-1 counters in the first block, but +1/+1 counters in the second?
By R&D's standards yes, by mine no. I'd be very open to do that, I agree it could show in a really nice way the shift from the Brotherhood prevailing to the Rebels. If we also say the sets are drafted separately, one more reason to do that.
Flatline posted two cards in the DCC with this mechanic:
Mollification Mage
Creature - Vedalken Wizard (R)
Vigilance
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn’t brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.)
Brainwashed creatures your opponents control can’t attack or block.
3/4
Shock Therapy
Instant (C)
Shock Therapy deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn’t brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.) "Don't worry, you'll feel better soon."
And this was my reply:
Quote from bravelion83 »
I really like Shock Therapy but I think it should deal 2 damage and not 3, both because of the connection to Shock in the name and to not be strictly better than Lightning Strike (not a big problem and there are already precedents, but still...).
EDIT: While watching Worlds coverage and seeing Fleecemane Lion played multiple times, a really important thought came to me. Multiple instances of brainwash on the same creature as it's worded above put multiple -1/-1 on the creature. Is this intentional, or is that meant to be the following, putting the counter only if the creature isn't already brainwashed?
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, if that creature isn't brainwashed, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature and it becomes brainwashed.)
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
First off, I love the brainwash mechanic (no pressure ), and yes, it was intentional to allow multiple -1/-1 counters on a creature. I think that's is the better way to go for 2 reasons. 1- Without the -1/-1 counter, brainwash does nothing on its own. With your alternate wording suggestion (which occurred to me when I thought of the idea), a card like Shock Therapy basically isn't any different than a Lightning Strike if it's targeting an already brainwashed creature. 2- The Brotherhood is constantly brainwashing people, the -1/-1 counters are a good representation of the Brotherhood slowly draining the life from the Ormosian citizens. I think this works very well from a flavor standpoint. It shows how the Brotherhood wears people down over time. There is a recurring quote in A Handmaid's Tale, "Illegitimi non carborundum", which is Latin for, "Don't let the bastards grind you down". I think the -1/-1 counters being repeatable are a perfect representation of this quote/idea, which I love.
I think I really like the idea of switching from -1/-1 counters in the first set to +1/+1 counters in the second set. I'm little surprised lion actually is willing to support this, but if he's game, I'm game. I see no problem with it as long as the sets are drafted separately. I can even see Wizards breaking this rule in the same way (and for similar reasons), if they felt it was justified, which I think it is on Ormos.
As far as Shock Therapy is concerned...Lightning Bolt. I would prefer to make it a sorcery, bump it up to uncommon for limited purposes, or even cost over making it deal 2 damage for . I don't think Shock Therapy would see any play outside of standard the way I have it currently. Maybe modern burn might use it, but I doubt it. If it ends up too strong when we playtest (if we actually end up going with brainwash), we could adjust from there, but I think the only reason this gets changed is because it ends up being too strong for standard/limited. Which I doubt, but it's hard to say without the set made and play-tested. BTW, I think Shock Therapy may be my favorite card I've ever made from a strictly flavor stand point, even without the flavor text, which I could see changing.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
First off, I love the brainwash mechanic (no pressure ), and yes, it was intentional to allow multiple -1/-1 counters on a creature.
Ok, no problem! I was just making sure it was intentional and not just an oversight. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense to me.
I think I really like the idea of switching from -1/-1 counters in the first set to +1/+1 counters in the second set. I'm little surprised lion actually is willing to support this, but if he's game, I'm game.
I definitely am. It really makes sense here, and it's a design rule I understand but I never really agreed with it at a deep level. I mean: just use two different things to represent +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters and you've solved the problem! Experienced players often have different colored dices (I have them myself) or such, and less experienced players will certainly find different things to use. In the worst case, they can just make up paper pieces with + and - written onto them. I actually think DFCs are more difficult logistically than allowing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters to coexist would be.
As far as Shock Therapy is concerned...Lightning Bolt...
Yes, that's exactly why I wrote "but still", but the real problem is one you don't mention. MaRo calls it "piggybacking" if I recall correctly, and Reuben (Doombringer) and Dan (Stairc) talked about it in one episode of their Remaking Magic podcast calling it with a different term I don't remember right now and even making a design challenge out of it, in which I participated. The concept is designing a card that's somehow connected to an earlier famous card. In this case, the problem is the word "Shock" in the name. That has a very definite meaning in Magic, one that players would expect to see reflected in the mechanics. They would expect this to be a Shock variant and not a Lightning Bolt one. It's not a matter of power, rarity, or such, it's one of expectations. To solve it, we'd either need to change the name or have it deal 2 damage like the card Shock. Of course, there is still "option C" aka "the third way" (or "deathwish", this is a joke that only who played GTAV will understand), that in our case is just to accept it anyway, but we must be aware that we're fighting expectations here, and there should be a really good reason for doing that.
EDIT - Oops, I just saw the discussion about this card in the DCC discussion thread, and I missed this wonderful gem (in my opinion):
I see your point RukiMotomiya, and am starting to come around to your way of thinking. Honestly, maybe it should just cost , and only deal 1 damage. I feel like this is infinitely less powerful though, although I think you're probably right about the flavor at this point. Maybe I could change it to this also...
Shock Therapy
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
When ~ enters the battlefield, and at the beginning of your upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to enchanted creature.
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn't brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.)
This would represent the fact that the shock therapy is recurring, and after too much of it, the creature just can't handle anymore. I'm not sure the wording on the enchantment version is correct though. BTW, thanks for the input Ruki, it's much appreciated.
This versione solves all problems both I here and Ruki there talked about. The wording is almost correct, the only mistake is that the "and" should be "or", like this:
Shock Therapy
Enchantment - Aura (probably U)
Enchant creature
When Shock Therapy enters the battlefield or at the beginning of your upkeep, Shock Therapy deals 1 damage to enchanted creature.
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn't brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.)
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Just wanted to post here to say I agree, I like that version of Shock Therapy. (Tho it may need testing to see if it needs to be 1R, but that's no knock against it)
I also like the enchantment version better, and am very thankful to Rukimotomiya for the incite. I like that it represents the creature going in for repeat treatments. We should continue to take Ruki's incite into consideration when designing cards with brainwash. I agree that it makes more sense if the brainwashed creature has a better chance of sticking around for a bit. As a matter of, the I'm now thinking my 3/4 vigilant dude from the other day should probably be a 2/4. Again, thanks for speaking up Ruki, it is much apprecitated. BTW, the name Shock Therapy is the reason I like the spell so much, I would adjust the card any way needed to keep it. I never really thought about Shock when I was making the card, but it makes sense to reference that card in some way. You're right lion (or MaRo), it does make it even cooler.
Ministry Mindflayer
Creature - Ratillion Wizard? (U)
Brainwash
When ~ dies, each opponent that controls one or more brainwashed creatures discards a card at random.
1/1
Mind Puppeteer
Creature - Vedalken Wizard (R)
Brainwash
When ~ enters the battlefield, gain control of target creature with one or more -1/-1 counters on it until ~ leaves the battlefield.
1/4
Snap Out of It
Instant (C)
Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control. Then, if that creature had one or more -1/-1 counters on it, you may pay . If you do, it gets +3/+0 and gains haste and trample until end of turn.
Lastly, I'd like to propose Inaction Injunction as our first reprint. The flavor text already works perfectly. All you'd have to do is change it to be attributed to Father Dahl. (BTW, I know we're still not ready to design cards, but as I said, I have a problem. Please don't bother to respond to my cards, as I said, they're just for fun.)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
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I do it by closing and reopening quote tags manually. As far as I know, there is no automated way to do it. If you want to see it, look no further than this very post's source code! You can see it hitting quote without then actually posting it.
Admittedly, the first half almost changes completely, but I feel it's changing to be better, so I don't complain about that. At least the second half will still work with just a few adjustments, and I'm working on them as I write this. Just allow me a little more time to complete it and I'll post the revision.
I actually feel it's just fine, I can accept it but I don't love it. If we come up with something better we can change it, but as of now I don't have any better proposal to make here.
It definitely is. Let's just call them such.
I wouldn't mind that too either, but I wonder if it's enough, especially given that I too was already thinking that:
This is THE MAIN reason to me. The problem of Tezzeret is that he just overlaps too much with Dahl, both in colors and in being an artificer.
My favorite planeswalker is Ajani (who would have guessed?), but not because he's a lion, because of his backstory and philosophy. As a person, I'm heavily primary white, so I just naturally relate to him. Gideon and Elspeth too, but Ajani is my favorite of the three. I like very much Tamiyo too though. I'll think if there is a way to involve her in the second set. I'd like some of the minor planeswalker to be included there, but please leave Tibalt for that future block of mine (I've already thought of how to involve him there).
In fact this is exactly what I'm doing in my revision. (Spoilers!)
I agree with the positive name thing, and I'll try to work those names into my revision. I also agree about the word "Guilt" being too negative, but when thinking about the Ministries all the words I had for the black one were even more negative.
Ok, very good. I'll also put that bit about the Brotherhood somewhere in my revision.
No, they don't really and don't have to. Beside that, I've already written that in my revision and I don't want to rewrite it a third time! Let's just not care where they are and say that they are sparse throughout Ormos with guards watching over them.
I've already touched on this above. In the end, I agree, and yes, I'm ok with leaving him out. It makes the story clearer and helps with the "Tezzeret overlapping Dahl" issue.
I am ok with the substance of it. I'd ask you and everybody else to pay attention to a seemingly small detail but that really hurts me: Dahl is a god (NOT capitalized). In fact I just corrected it in the quote. If you capitalize that word, that's where you're stepping onto real world religion and I don't really like it as you know. There is a BIG difference talking about a god and talking about God. I'm ok with the former (and in fact I'm ok with Theros gods for example), but NOT with the latter.
I'm ok with either one. Don't worry about my world, I have already adopted a different approach that I like much more, and we'll get to it eventually (I say we because I hope you'll be part of that team too when the time comes).
Story revision incoming.
EDIT: and here it is. Enjoy!
DETAILED PLOT
---INTRODUCTION TO THE FIRST SET---
Dahl is a human artificer planeswalker from an unknown plane. When he was still a young man on his homeplane, he served in the government, when he was caught developing a device that he planned to use to take the plane from the ruling party. For this, he is sentenced to death. During his execution, his spark ignites and he escapes with his life. The government of his homeplane sends out a few planeswalkers to find him and bring him back so that justice can be served. Among those planerwalkers who are chasing Dahl through the planes on behalf of the government, there is a female mad-looking and very young woman called Freigh. She is a red/green character mechanically focused on artifact destruction. Knowing her passion for smashing things just for the fun of it, the government hired her thinking "who best to send after an artificer?".
After a bit of time on the run, Dahl eventually finds Ormos. Ormos is a young and fairly undeveloped plane on the outskirts of the multiverse, remote and somewhat inconsequential, therefore it is not visited by planeswalkers very much. The citizens of Ormos are somewhat primitive when compared to citizens from other planes, and have been locked in a planewide holy war for times untold. The sides of this holy war are divided as such:
W - Clerics, who believe in a single god that is the absolute ruler of all things. Main race: Humans.
U - Atheists, who believe in no "superstitions". They consider themselves to be scientific people, and would prefer the "religious zealots" not stand in the way of progress. Main race: Vedalken.
B - Worshippers of death. They believe that only in death can one be set free, and that the body is just a vessel to be used. Main race: Ratillions (new Rat-folk race).
R - Shamans believing in a mysticism that is dependent upon personal growth through individual experience. Main races: Viashino and Goblins (I see no reason to not include both here).
G - Druids that believe in the ultimate power of nature. Main race: Elves.
Each of these sects believes that their philosophy is the only correct philosophy, which causes the five sects to be at constant war. Each sect has a main race, which is the race of the majority of its members, but there is not a biunique correspondence between sects and races. Each sect includes some members of other races as well. The plane is divided along philosophical lines more so than racial ones.
Upon coming to Ormos, Dahl soon comes to believe it to be the best place to hide from the planeswalkers seeking him. He also immediately realizes the opportunity such a plane gives him to gain power for himself, so he sets about exploiting the religious chaos that is the plane of Ormos. He aligns himself with the Cleric faction of the war, and claims to be a messenger from their god. The Clerics don’t have a hard time buying that because of Dahl's charisma and power, as they haven’t seen a lot of planeswalkers. Also, they clearly see that the powerful Dahl may be just the advantage they need to win the war. With Dahl on their side, the Clerics quickly gain an advantage over the rest of the factions on the plane, and eventually establish their own religion as the one true religion, with Dahl as its leader.
Once this happens, Dahl begins to preach unity and brotherhood for all of the Ormosian citizens, up to calling the religion itself "the Brotherhood". His preachings are imposed as a law, and soon Dahl builds structures to punish those that he calls the "guilty", meaning everyone who committed even a slight infraction, despite how little it may be. After all, the law is useless if you don't enforce it. He builds two types of camps, sparse throughout Ormos with guards watching over them. Those are:
• The Workcamps, where prisoners are forced to work too many hours a day as a punishment for what they did.
• The Correction Camps, where the most difficult prisoners are punished. Correction Camps execute all kinds of sentences and punishments, always involving a heavy prison regime, often involving torture and brainwashing, and including death sentences in the worst cases.
Normally, the first infraction brings you to a Workcamp, while the second one, or another infraction while you're in a Workcamp, gets you to a Correction Camp. But if you commit a particular serious crime, you may also be sent directly to a Correction Camp. Obviously all camps have a lot of guards keeping things under control.
Anyway, the Brotherhood wants people to see that people can be reformed, even the ones that actually can't. With so many people disappearing to the camps or "reaching final enlightenment" (aka "being sentenced to death"), the Brotherhood wants people to hold out hope that their loved ones may yet be "saved" (aka "rendered harmless", sometimes including chip implants) and then return to them. The Brotherhood tries to never take people away in broad daylight, and they never inform any of their survivors as to where they've gone, people are just left wondering.
In order to appease the remaining factions, Dahl appoints each faction its own division within the governing body. Such divisions are called "Ministries". The previous sects end up being transformed into the various Ministries that have been set up by the Brotherhood, although any adherence to their old teachings is strictly forbidden as blasphemy. The Brotherhood also makes it difficult to adhere to the old ways by erasing all history of them from media and textbooks. The Ministries are as follows:
W - Ministry of Order: it deals with making laws, maintaining public order, managing all the camps except for Correction Camps, and propaganda.
U - Ministry of Truth: it deals with information and education, constantly making sure that all the schools and the analogue of the media spread the "right" information.
B - Ministry of Guilt: it deals with torture and brainwashing, using them to punish the "guilty" (where the name comes from), which actually are anyone who committed even a slight infraction, no matter how small it can be. It manages the Correction Camps, using those means at full extent to "re-educate" the prisoners.
R - Ministry of Industry: it deals with actually producing the devices Dahl designs, like chips (represented by the new Implant subtype), drones, and such. It's actually made up by Viashino and Goblin slaves working in factory assembly lines.
G - Ministry of Agriculture: it deals with managing the food and waste systems for camps, schools, public offices and all population really.
Although Dahl has built a system of strict laws, surveillance and punishment, he still mostly controls his people through religion and re-education. When someone is caught doing wrong on Ormos, most of the citizens think this person should be punished. This often includes the person being punished. People are generally afraid to express their feelings of discontent because they are never sure if the person they are talking to will blow them in for what they are saying, whether the person is a Brotherhood agent or just an average citizen. It takes a long time to trust anybody on Ormos under Dahl's regime, even your own family might turn you in to the authorities in order to "save" you.
After Dahl is firmly entrenched as the ruler of Ormos, he quickly puts the Ministry of Truth to work, rewriting history and "teaching" (aka brainwashing) the population the orthodoxy of the newfound Brotherhood. While doing so, he eventually transforms himself from a disciple of the Cleric's god, to a god himself, acquiring the name of "Father Dahl".
He soon creates a network of devices called the "Isolating Network" to isolate Ormos from the rest of the Multiverse, allowing no other planeswalker to enter or leave the plane, reinforcing his power as self-imposed god. This traps Freigh, who had finally tracked Dahl to Ormos in the meantime. Realizing she can’t defeat Dahl herself, as he now has the entire plane under his command, she sets about recruiting help. This is the beginning of the Rebellion, which begins quite slowly at first due to Dahl’s complete influence over the minds of the Ormosians. In fact, it takes a few years for the Rebellion to start gaining enough momentum.
---END OF INTRODUCTION---
---FIRST SET STARTS HERE---
The first set starts here, with the Brotherhood already firmly entrenched, the Isolation Network already in place, and the Rebellion starting to enter its middle stages.
After some years, in addition to keeping on looking for help, Freigh is finding and destroying the devices making up the Isolation Network. While attempting to destroy the last one, she is caught and sent directly to a Correction Camp, waiting for a sentence. Her case is of unprecedented gravity, so it will take a long time to judge.
In the meantime, in Workcamp 78 an unfortunate event happens: a woman prisoner gets pregnant. As usual in these cases (a few other ones have happened before), the father is immediately sent to a Correction Camp, while the mother stays in the Workcamp until the end of her pregnancy. When the baby is born, she is sent to a Correction Camp too (a different one of course), and the baby is given a number and stays in the Workcamp, passing there all their life. This baby is a female and has been assigned the number 137-F, where the F stands for "female". She grows in Workcamp 78 while being exposed to different prisoners that come and go from the camp. Some of those prisoners tell her of the starting Rebellion against the Brotherhood, and as she always wondered how it was like to live on the outside with freedom in your hands, she becomes fascinated by those tales and starts developing a desire to possibly join the Rebellion one day.
When she comes of age, 137-F finally decides to attempt to escape Workcamp 78 but she's caught and sent to a Correction Camp for a "re-education retreat" (aka "brainwashing"). That Correction Camp happens to be the same one where Freigh has been imprisoned all this time. Freigh has been sentenced to "find final enlightenment" (aka "be executed") in the meantime. They meet in this camp, quickly becoming friends and deciding to try to escape. Freigh has never felt like trying that alone, and 137-F has the experience of her previous failed attempt. Together, they start planning an escape, and eventually their plan works.
Together they also decide to attempt again to destroy the final device of the Isolation Network. Freigh knows where it is located, so she takes 137-F there with her. Freigh takes her sword, empowered with Rebel magic, and hits the Network device, destroying it. It was the last one: it had within itself all the magical energy of the whole Network. That energy bursts out in a huge explosion that kills Freigh and blinds 137-F, almost killing her too. She just has the time to take Freigh's magical sword in her hand before feeling like passing out.
---FIRST SET ENDS HERE---
---BRIDGE STARTS HERE---
She finds herself somewhere unknown. This is her first planeswalk, and her spark just ignited with no Isolating Network anymore to keep her on Ormos, but she doesn't know all of that yet. She looks around herself and finds some people. She tries to tell them what just happened to her, but they seem to not understand. One of them proposes to bring her to one of their mages, maybe he would understand her. They bring her to her village, where she's brought to XYZ (insert male returning planeswalker here, possibly white). She explains to him what happened and he immediately understands. He tells her about the spark, the Multiverse, and introduces her to what planeswalking means. Her mind is blown away by all of this, she wanted to experience what freedom was like, but this was even more than all she could ever have hoped for! XYZ invites her to stay with him at least for a few days, as long as she needed to recover. She agrees. In those days, she tells him all about Ormos, the Brotherhood, the camps, the Rebellion, and asks him for his help. He gladly agrees. During those days, they also start feeling something for each other. One day, she tells him that she has no name except for a number. XYZ is horrified at the thought of people being just numbers and offers to give her himself a name. She loves the idea, and actually loves him too. He names her Ziarn, which means "seed", as in both this being just the "seed" of her journey as a planeswalker, and her being hopefully the "seed" of the Rebellion on Ormos. As soon as she recovers her strength, she asks him to come with her back to Ormos and help the Rebellion. He agrees, and they both planeswalk to Ormos.
---END OF BRIDGE---
---SECOND SET STARTS HERE---
As they arrive on Ormos, Ziarn's attention is caught by a small group of Rebels talking to each other and wondering what happened to Freigh, who has disappeared since a few days ago. She walks to them and explains them what happened and that Freigh is dead and she was there. They immediately bring her in a hideout, where all the highest ranked Rebels were meeting to decide what to do after Freigh's sudden disappearance. They stop the meeting, asking them to listen to what this woman has to say. She tells everything to them too, bringing Freigh's sword, which she still has with herself, as proof. They believe her and they tell her that Freigh was actually their leader, and as she helped her and was there during the heroic (from their point of view) act that caused Freigh's death, they ask her to become the new leader of the Rebellion. She enthusiastically accepts and leads the Rebellion to victory. How that victory is exactly achieved will be the focus of the second set.
(Insert story of how the Rebellion wins here. We'll make it when we arrive to the second set.)
In the end, the Rebellion is victorious, the Brotherhood falls, and Dahl planeswalks away choosing that over certain death by Rebel hands. Freigh, who was the one looking after Dahl on Ormos on behalf of Dahl's homeplane government, is dead without having captured him, so one thing is for sure: Dahl is still free and still chased by other planeswalkers sent by the government throughout the planes. This leaves us the possibility to make another block with Dahl in the future.
---END OF SECOND SET---
---END OF THE BLOCK---
TIMELINE SUMMARY
(Time zero is the start of the first set.)
---INTRODUCTION STARTS HERE---
- 32 years: A young Dahl is sentenced to death on his unknown homeplane when his spark ignites. The government sends various planeswalkers, among which a very young Freigh, looking after him through the planes in a multi-planar chase.
- 30 years: Dahl comes to Ormos, where the "holy" war between the sects is going on.
- 28/29 years: Dahl becomes the leader of the Cleric's religion. Under his lead, they quickly win the war.
- 26/27 years: Dahl builds the camps and creates the Ministries out of the former sects.
- 25 years: The Ministry of Truth starts rewriting history. Dahl establishes himself as a god under the name of "Father Dahl".
- 22/23 years: Dahl creates the Isolating Network, trapping Freigh on Ormos. Freigh starts recruiting help. This is the start of the Rebellion.
- 10 years: Freigh discovers about the Isolating Network and starts breaking its devices throughout the plane of Ormos.
---INTRODUCTION ENDS HERE---
---FIRST SET STARTS HERE---
At time zero:
• The Brotherhood is already firmly entrenched, the Isolation Network is already in place, and the Rebellion is starting to enter its middle stages.
• Freigh is caught while trying to break the last device of the Isolating Network and sent to the Correction Camp, waiting for a sentence. Her case is of unprecedented gravity, so it will take a long time to judge.
• In Workcamp 78, 137-F is born.
+ 16/17 years: Freigh is sentenced to "find final enlightenment" (aka "be executed").
+ 18/19 years: 137-F tries to escape Workcamp 78 but is caught and sent to the same Correction Camp as Freigh for a "re-education retreat" (aka "brainwashing"). They meet there, become friends, and plan their escape.
+ 20 years: Their plan works and they escape the Correction Camp. They reach the last device of the Isolating Network and destroy it. The explosion kills Freigh and ignites 137-F's spark.
---FIRST SET ENDS HERE---
137-F meets XYZ on her first planeswalk plane. XYZ names her Ziarn. After a few days, they come back to Ormos.
---SECOND SET STARTS HERE---
Ziarn is anointed leader of the Rebellion.
+ 22/23 years: Ziarn thinks their time has come, and leads the Rebellion's revolt against the Brotherhood (details to be established later when we come to designing the second set).
+ 25 years: The Rebellion wins. The Brotherhood falls, and Dahl planeswalks away, still free but chased by other planeswalkers sent by his homeplane's government.
---SECOND SET ENDS HERE---
---BLOCK ENDS HERE---
PLANESWALKER BREAKDOWN
First set (Brotherhood of Ormos):
• Father Dahl (WUB, focusing on law and artifice)
• Freigh (RG, focusing on artifact destruction)
• 137-F, Camp Worker as a monowhite mythic rare Human Rebel legendary creature.
Second set:
• Ziarn (ex 137-F) (RW, focusing on building an army of small creatures and then pumping them, which I envision being her leading the Rebels to battle)
• XYZ (at least W, maybe mono W, as we've not yet included a monocolored planeswalker. Again, Gideon would probably fit perfectly, but we'll have to see BFZ's storyline)
• A returning "minor" planeswalker (possibly not white) who happens to be on Ormos. He/she doesn't have to tie into the main storyline, he/she can just have his/her own side storyline here. Me and Flatline would like this to be Tamiyo, if we're able to fit her in.
Features/notes:
• Two males (Dahl and XYZ), two females (Freigh and 137-F/Ziarn), and one unknown. Whichever gender the returning minor planeswalker is, we have the best balance (a 2/3 split).
• A double large block with a 2/3 planeswalker split, that is actually more of a 2.5/3 split because of 137-F's legendary creature card in the first set.
• The two main characters of the Rebellion (Freigh and Ziarn) are female, which feels appropriate and ironic for the Brotherhood treating them as second class citizens. Even those who might feel bad at first about that representation should like the fact that in the end it's exactly a female who leads the Rebellion to victory. There is a nice kind of redemption story hidden there.
• The second set doesn't only have planeswalkers on the Rebellion side, but also the minor returning one who should not care about the Brotherhood/Rebellion fight.
Is this a version everybody can agree on?
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
The reason I keep capitalizing god when I talk about Dahl is because his religion has only one god, which I think warrants the capitalization, but I'm fine not doing so if you feel uncomfortable with it.
I mostly do it to not lose track myself of where we are, but knowing others appreciate what you do feels great! Thanks!
Yes, I really do. I'm sorry, but I've told you before that is a sensitive point to me. I'd really appreciate you and others paying attention to that.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I know that is a sensitive point for you, and the last thing I would ever want to do is offend anyone (especially you), I just wasn’t looking at the capitalization of god as being particular to any one religion. I am certainly always trying to be cognizant of your feelings on the matter, and I assure you that I would never step over the line intentionally. If I have already done so, please accept my sincerest apology.
Edit: BTW, I'm fine not capitalizing it, and will stop doing so moving forward.
Then the races would look like this:
W:
Primary: Humans
Secondary: Archons? (This was mentioned a little bit ago)
U:
Primary: Vedalken
Secondary: Not discussed yet, maybe drakes? Illusions?
B:
Primary: Rat-Folk
Secondary: Not discussed yet, maybe thrulls? They fit the idea of the Brotherhood very well.
R:
Primary: Goblins
Secondary: Viashino
G:
Primary: Mutants
Secondary: Not discussed yet, no ideas here.
Colorless:
Maybe thopters?
Hi sperlman, glad to hear you like the idea. I too am not sure about Elves as the green race (this was actually discussed a while ago in the thread), but I'm not sure I want to see the Brotherhood delve into genetic engineering. Since we are already kind of creating a new race with Ratillions, I'd really like green to be an already existing race, but agree that Elves is might not be the right one. I'd like whatever race it is to make sense for green's Druidic philosophies as I've laid them out above (which Elves very much are). Treefolk would work, but I see them as having the same problem as Elves for the block, but even more so. Would snake people work? That would be stealing yet another Kamigawa idea for a pseudo-new race. I'm not sure I see them as worshippers of nature though. What other previously existing green races are there that would make sense here?
Edit: What about Ape-Folk, a la Planet of the Apes. They could be called Siminians or something like that. Still we may be better off not creating another new race (although Ratillions are new only in name.)
EDIT: As I often say, I draw at MaRo level, so I went to search deviantart for images of the kind of elves I have in mind: something like this, this, or this. I can totally see such kind of dark elves in a dystopian environment. A little less dark maybe to avoid them looking more black than green, but the concept I have in mind is similar to this.
EDIT 2: If we use the double race model, we might use such Elves as primary and Apes as secondary for green.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Do Ape-Folk already exist in magic? I know there are Apes (Kird Ape), but I can't think of any that have human level intelligence. Am I just forgetting something?
As far as other creature types are concerned, I would love to have Aven, Leonin or both in the block. To be honest, if I thought I could get away with it, I would have the primary green race be Leonin, but I know they're primarily white. I'm also wondering if it might not be a bad idea to have some races such as Zombies, Specters, and maybe even a few Vampires. This would give Dahl something he could be protecting his citizens from beyond just each other. I think it might work to make these creatures more of a perceived threat perpetuated by the Brotherhood than a real one, if you catch my drift. IT would seem we have red covered. I'm not sure about blue beyond Vedalken. I don't think I want Merfolk. I love Faeries, but can't see them here. I'm not sure where to go with blue. I definitely see there being Humans in all colors, but centered in white, kinda like Innistrad.
I would love to start brainstorming some mechanics soon. I still haven't thought of anything I am in love with.
I'll do some research on those creature types you mentioned. (*) I'd obviously love to have Leonin too, and I have no problem with Avens. I was thinking about Vampires too. I think I understand your intention: using such (not necessarily real) threats to instill fear in people to better control them. Thinking of humanoid races, Ainok just came to my mind. Could they be one of the green races?
About Elves, those were what I had in mind to adapt them to a dystopian world, but if we can just use normal Elves that's even better! As I said, I see no problems with them living on Ormos.
As soon as we have a story nobody objects to at least (or that everyone likes at best), we can start thinking about mechanics. Don't forget we already have detain and Implants.
EDIT
(*) There have been some sentient Apes on Dominaria according to the wiki:
Other Apes, including Sultai ones on Tarkir's Khans timeline, don't seem to be sentient or intelligent, but Dominaria ones constitute a valid precedent in my opinion if we want to go that way. I still think Elves are better though, with Ainok if we want two races.
A new thought I just had: maybe Elves not being easily subjugated by Dahl can be a good thing. Could they be the first to join the Rebellion and give it some momentum in its earliest stages?
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
As far as two races per color...I don't think we have to hold to this strictly, but I have no problem with having two main races for each color. Although I can see some creatures appearing in other colors a bit (such as white Ainok), and I said I said before, I see Humans in all colors, but centered in white.
I'm glad you parenthetically added the "or everyone likes best", because I didn't mean to object to the story as it was (it was quite good), it's just that I have certain vision in my head, and I just want to get it out there, even if we decide to go a different way.
I agree that we need to tackle things one at a time, and we need a more solid grasp on the story and creature types before moving forward, I'm just excited to think up some mechanics. I feel like we're going to hit on something great, even if I don't know what that is yet.
I like the last version of the story I put together from our ideas (what I called "Leo's story 2.0"), and I think and assume you like it too. I'd really like to hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion on that story. If they like it too, or at least are ok with it, we lock it. That would be a major advancement, and the first we need to do right now, but until they don't tell us about that we can't know.
Then we will lock the main creature types. I thought of Ainok because I love them by the way! They and Leonin are two races I'd really like to work with here.
My proposal about creature types. This doesn't exclude a few cards with different creature types, but these are the major ones.
W - primary: Humans - secondary: Leonin, Aven
U - primary: Vedalken - secondary: unknown
B - primary: Ratillions (creature type Rat) - secondary: Vampires, Zombies
R - primary: Viashino - secondary: Goblins
G - primary: Elves - secondary: Ainok (creature type Hound)
Again, I suppose you like this as well as I do and I'd like to hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion. Maybe they can also have an idea for a secondary blue race. If they like this, it's a lock too.
Then we can finally start thinking about mechanics. Do you remember my earlier suggestion to have a 3/2 Brotherhood/Rebels split in mechanics that reverts to 2/3 in the Rebel's favor in the second set (dropping Implants and creating a new additional Rebel mechanic for the second set)? Well, it's still valid. I'd still like to do that. To make a point of where we were, we missed a "caste" mechanic as the third one for the Brotherhood, a "breaking the law" mechanic for the Rebels, and an additional one capturing a different aspect of the Rebels. Once that is done, we design cards (finally!) starting with the commons and going up in rarity.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
While reading the story I thought of the name "Ministry of Redemption" for the black ministry. I like it a lot better than "Ministry of Guilt". What do you think? I also wouldn't mind renaming the green one, but I'm less sure about that. I was think something like "Ministry of Blessings" since it's the one that provides the food. As I said though, I'm not sure about the green one, I just thought I'd throw it out there. The black one I definitely like.
Here's my response to lion's last post. As usual, my comments are bold.....
I actually thought of the same exact idea as the law one you are suggesting, including having the Rebels break them. As a matter of fact, I believe one of the example cards from OP still has the law subtype on it. The problem with this is, outside of the block it would mean nothing unless the laws themselves did something new. The Rebels interacting with them wouldn't make sense outside of the block. The Thoughreader idea is an interesting one. I'll keep it in mind when we get to card development. Thanks for the suggestions.
This is also a good idea, but I think I like where we are at as far as color distribution is concerned at this point. Thanks for the input though, it is much appreciated.
Edit: BTW, I wouldn't touch phasing with a 10 ft. pole. And honestly, banding would make more sense for the block.
I also have my own small uncertainties about the timeline, and I admit a few numbers are almost random, but I'd like to see yours before saying mine.
In-story it fits perfectly, but in the color pie redemption is not exactly a black concept, even if I still can't find positive sounding words there. We can just say it's due to the Brotherhood's naming system.
Same as before. Fits perfectly in-story, not so much in the color pie.
I think we just have to find the right role for them, even though at the moment I don't have any precise idea.
True, add that too to the list. But now I'd like to pause again for a moment until we hear Indighost and Tilwin's opinion on the story and creature types.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
As far as Ministry of Redemption is concerned, I know redemption isn't part of black's pie, but that is kind of the point. In 1984, all the ministries have names that are basically the opposite of their real goal (the Ministry of Plenty made sure that people barely had enough to survive, etc.). I'm certainly not suggesting that the black ministry would break the color pie in any way.
I'll take a better look at the timeline later tonight. I didn't have a lot of time to actually think about it last night, so I'm not even positive I would want to change anything. I'll post my thoughts on that later, but I'll try not to make any further suggestions so that Tilwin and Indighost have time to give their input.
Having more animalistic Vampires could potentially solve the problem I have with Vampires in the set, but at that point you almost have Zombies, so why not just have Zombies? I'm still not sure I like Vampires in this setting. Faeries are one of my favorite creature types, and I would love to work them into the set, but I feel like they are a bit too magical for the Brotherhood to "tame". I have an even bigger problem seeing them following Dahl than I do Elves. I guess I could be wrong here though.
Edit: BTW, I see Zombies on Ormos (if we have them) as being more the shambling mindless type than the sentient, wizard/warrior type.
I don't think necromancy should be very common either, but it would be something the Ratillions were familiar with prior to Dahl's rise. I can envision a scenario where Dahl has a super-secret camp of Ratillions slaving away a making Zombies, not to use as an army in any way, but just for something he can use to help keep people on their toes. The Zombie threat wouldn't be great, but Dahl could still use it. What if Dahl told people that they would turn into Zombies if they weren't faithful to him? As a punishment they would forever roam the land as a mindless flesh starved Zombie. A kind of hell on earth. This is just thinking aloud though. Other than the not having armies of Zombies part, that I know I don't want. Dahl is an artificer, not a necromancer.
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn't brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.)
This mechanic exploits monstrosity/renown technology, but kind of reverses it. In my opinion, it's very flavorful for the Brotherhood. Obviously, there would be cards referencing brainwashed creatures and triggers like "Whenever a creature an opponent controls becomes brainwashed" and such.
I just have two remarks:
• First, it forces us to only use -1/-1 counters throughout the block. That's not necessarily a problem, just a thing we must be aware of as it heavily shapes the mechanical design. It's such a great fit for the Brotherhood though that I personally would have no problem with this.
• Second, I'd say that it also forces us to use -1/-1 counters ONLY or MOSTLY as brainwash markers. If there are too many other ways to put -1/-1 counters, it becomes difficult to recognize a brainwashed creature by the counter. I don't know how many +1/+1 counter-creating cards there were in Origins except for renown or in Theros block except for monstrosity. I'll have to check, but I think this is an aspect that we would totally have to consider too.
Flatline replied with the following:
Flatline posted two cards in the DCC with this mechanic:
And this was my reply:
EDIT: While watching Worlds coverage and seeing Fleecemane Lion played multiple times, a really important thought came to me. Multiple instances of brainwash on the same creature as it's worded above put multiple -1/-1 on the creature. Is this intentional, or is that meant to be the following, putting the counter only if the creature isn't already brainwashed?
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, if that creature isn't brainwashed, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature and it becomes brainwashed.)
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I think I really like the idea of switching from -1/-1 counters in the first set to +1/+1 counters in the second set. I'm little surprised lion actually is willing to support this, but if he's game, I'm game. I see no problem with it as long as the sets are drafted separately. I can even see Wizards breaking this rule in the same way (and for similar reasons), if they felt it was justified, which I think it is on Ormos.
As far as Shock Therapy is concerned...Lightning Bolt. I would prefer to make it a sorcery, bump it up to uncommon for limited purposes, or even cost over making it deal 2 damage for . I don't think Shock Therapy would see any play outside of standard the way I have it currently. Maybe modern burn might use it, but I doubt it. If it ends up too strong when we playtest (if we actually end up going with brainwash), we could adjust from there, but I think the only reason this gets changed is because it ends up being too strong for standard/limited. Which I doubt, but it's hard to say without the set made and play-tested. BTW, I think Shock Therapy may be my favorite card I've ever made from a strictly flavor stand point, even without the flavor text, which I could see changing.
Ok, no problem! I was just making sure it was intentional and not just an oversight. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense to me.
I definitely am. It really makes sense here, and it's a design rule I understand but I never really agreed with it at a deep level. I mean: just use two different things to represent +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters and you've solved the problem! Experienced players often have different colored dices (I have them myself) or such, and less experienced players will certainly find different things to use. In the worst case, they can just make up paper pieces with + and - written onto them. I actually think DFCs are more difficult logistically than allowing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters to coexist would be.
Yes, that's exactly why I wrote "but still", but the real problem is one you don't mention. MaRo calls it "piggybacking" if I recall correctly, and Reuben (Doombringer) and Dan (Stairc) talked about it in one episode of their Remaking Magic podcast calling it with a different term I don't remember right now and even making a design challenge out of it, in which I participated. The concept is designing a card that's somehow connected to an earlier famous card. In this case, the problem is the word "Shock" in the name. That has a very definite meaning in Magic, one that players would expect to see reflected in the mechanics. They would expect this to be a Shock variant and not a Lightning Bolt one. It's not a matter of power, rarity, or such, it's one of expectations. To solve it, we'd either need to change the name or have it deal 2 damage like the card Shock. Of course, there is still "option C" aka "the third way" (or "deathwish", this is a joke that only who played GTAV will understand), that in our case is just to accept it anyway, but we must be aware that we're fighting expectations here, and there should be a really good reason for doing that.
EDIT - Oops, I just saw the discussion about this card in the DCC discussion thread, and I missed this wonderful gem (in my opinion):
This versione solves all problems both I here and Ruki there talked about. The wording is almost correct, the only mistake is that the "and" should be "or", like this:
Shock Therapy
Enchantment - Aura (probably U)
Enchant creature
When Shock Therapy enters the battlefield or at the beginning of your upkeep, Shock Therapy deals 1 damage to enchanted creature.
Brainwash (Whenever this deals damage to a creature, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If it isn't brainwashed, it becomes brainwashed.)
I think we should really just adopt this version.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Creature - Ratillion Wizard? (U)
Brainwash
When ~ dies, each opponent that controls one or more brainwashed creatures discards a card at random.
1/1
Mind Puppeteer
Creature - Vedalken Wizard (R)
Brainwash
When ~ enters the battlefield, gain control of target creature with one or more -1/-1 counters on it until ~ leaves the battlefield.
1/4
Snap Out of It
Instant (C)
Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control. Then, if that creature had one or more -1/-1 counters on it, you may pay . If you do, it gets +3/+0 and gains haste and trample until end of turn.
Lastly, I'd like to propose Inaction Injunction as our first reprint. The flavor text already works perfectly. All you'd have to do is change it to be attributed to Father Dahl. (BTW, I know we're still not ready to design cards, but as I said, I have a problem. Please don't bother to respond to my cards, as I said, they're just for fun.)