Wow, that's strong. If you're looking for a powerhouse allied color uncommon, that's definitely it.
I have to do my pushing somewhere, right?
BR represent the most antagonistic pair in the world of Serenta and it certainly shows here. I'm making a point of having the BR removal suite be the strongest overall, distinctly so over white for once. It stands out already somewhat since this set includes Morbid and white traditional exiles things, making it less useful for triggering it and in pairing with other colors that use Morbid more.
That and Bituminous Blast was a point of reference for powerlevel. I wanted it to be somewhat comparable.
Note that Pyrotechnics is one of the top uncommons in FRF. I'm not saying the current cost is wrong but maybe make it sorcery speed.
Is it one of the top uncommons in limited or constructed? If we're talking constructed, then you're probably right, this would need to be changed. If we're talking limited, the Khans/Fate's environment is a very different one with it's heavy multi/tri colored support for the mana base where Serenta limited will only have minimal allied color support. Pyrotechnics could fit into many different limited decks while Everscar would require more commitment. That and I am looking to make B/R removal stronger then the average set here, as Serenta is not looking to be battlecruiser magic like Theros or ROE.
I guess I'm trying to say I'm ok with this being a limited bomb so long as it isn't the only one. I do want to encourage people to stretch to allied colors, a power uncommons like this help. That's not to say it still may not need change, but if your concern is for the limited environment, I'd want to playtest it first.
There is some interesting things here, but to be honest, it seems like the set's basic idea is not really going to work out. You have the design goal of 'a set that inspires vindictive and hateful feeling towards other players strategies and colors' which seems like a mistake right from the start. Vindictive and hateful are not nice words and a set that is based around it seems like it a breeding ground for unfun cards and mechanics. If the design goal is done well, I feel like the set would be very broken. If not, it may just end up as a hodgepodge of design that doesn't really justify itself. I don't see the selling point of 'set of hate'. Is it top down or bottom up? Is it based around interesting gameplay or experience? What is the set supposed to be and is it really something that should be done? I'm not confident that is, even though it is a unique and intriguing idea.
While I've had my concerns on that very point from the start, I keep coming around to this: Genuine vindictiveness and hatred to your opponent isn't probably what's being talked about. It feels more like the thrill of playing the evil villain from what I've seen. In a project I freelanced for recently, one of the factions had a similarly vicious design goal (though one worded a bit differently) and it ended up being tremendously popular.
I'd like to hear what the designer thinks of this point though.
There is some interesting things here, but to be honest, it seems like the set's basic idea is not really going to work out. You have the design goal of 'a set that inspires vindictive and hateful feeling towards other players strategies and colors' which seems like a mistake right from the start. Vindictive and hateful are not nice words and a set that is based around it seems like it a breeding ground for unfun cards and mechanics. If the design goal is done well, I feel like the set would be very broken. If not, it may just end up as a hodgepodge of design that doesn't really justify itself. I don't see the selling point of 'set of hate'. Is it top down or bottom up? Is it based around interesting gameplay or experience? What is the set supposed to be and is it really something that should be done? I'm not confident that is, even though it is a unique and intriguing idea.
While I've had my concerns on that very point from the start, I keep coming around to this: Genuine vindictiveness and hatred to your opponent isn't probably what's being talked about. It feels more like the thrill of playing the evil villain from what I've seen. In a project I freelanced for recently, one of the factions had a similarly vicious design goal (though one worded a bit differently) and it ended up being tremendously popular.
I'd like to hear what the designer thinks of this point though.
Stairc is more in line with the direction I've been going.
When I talk about vindictive and hate filled magic, I'm talking about being a threat to your opponent that constantly gets in their way and plays as a more direct villain then the typical magic sets. The "selling" point would be a set that provides cards that must be answered, and inflicting hurt and bonus damage when you do villainous things. The play experience is aimed to be more tit for tat then typical Magic and to up the ante as things die and as your opponent resists.
Nemesis was the core mechanic the inspired the set as a creature that was an antagonist to your opponent's creatures directly. That's an aspect of magic that has always been one of the games (relative) weak points and I like to encourage creature on creature interactions. But I wanted to make it painful.
I first started with Spite, a mechanic that cared about life loss. It fit the idea well of encouraging antagonizing your opponent meaningfully every turn as opposed to alpha striking/battlecruiser setups. The problem arose when I started to consider Wither. Stairc and others we very insistent that if I wanted a set based on hate, Wither would inspire that as it did in the past. When I did make the decision that added it, Morbid was brought to the table as I had already been using it as a reference to design Spite. Since Wither encourage a lot more dying, morbid made more sense in the main set.
From there things evolved. The set's core is really about being a much more confrontational antagonist then normal magic allows. Almost all of the "hate" spells are regulated to effects that would be universally useful against decks, but would be much better against certain colors. Ser Fire Lord is an example of this since it punishes red's direct damage stratagem and their are a many cards like it across the colors.
Further, Serenta is a bottom up design, focusing on the experience of being a direct antagonist by rewarding inflicting pain and death to your opponents forces and punishing key elements of your enemies colors plan (Red punishes Blue Card Draw, White punishes direct damage, etc...). This does not mean I plan on printing cards like Zur's Weirding, Plow Under, Stasis, or Smokestack that are oppressive and prevent people from playing. On the contrary, I want you to make your opponent HURT for what they are doing by having strong answers that reward you as you make things die.
The area where I and others have had some contention are the cards that focus on doing what your color is good at. White gains a fair amount of life in this set (as does green) and rewards doing so. But those elements are their and are strong so red and black cards can punish what your white opponent is really good at. Further, some self focus strategies (Like life gain, counters, etc...) are hated ideas among players and should be elements represented.
The Flavor of Serenta is an expansion of the idea of the set I first started 9 years ago and never quite completed, but many elements of it are subject to change to serve the design goal. Many of them already have.
There are many games and experiences out their that encourage players to take on the role of the attagonist, both against AI's and among friends. It's an aspect of life many don't get to explore (morality issues and all) and enjoy doing so in a fantastical setting. That's what Serenta is to magic. Not a casual "Duel" but a lesson in inflicting harm.
Eulogy Enforcer1W
Creature - Human Cleric (R)
Morbid - Spells cost 3 more to cast if a creature died this turn We shall take a moment of silence to remember those lost.
1/3
Respect for the dead is something that is forced, not earned.
Now, I realize I'm posting this card after my long explanation that included saying I was not planning on cards "that are oppressive and prevent people from playing." This is perhaps the one card that is in that direction in the entire set and breaks that train of thought. However, I feel it is the right effect to have for a morbid white card and to push something potentially interesting and powerful in formats outside of standard. I like the design, but the numbers may need work as I feel this is probably really powerful, if not overpowered.
Keeper of Alacrity4UU
Creature - Sphinx (R)
Temptation (You may have this enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Flying
As long as Keeper of Alacrity has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has “You may cast nonland, noncreature cards as though they had flash. They can’t be countered.”
5/6
Sphinxes are often guardians of great magical secrets and power. However, even the most stalwart can be driven to temptations, leaving their hidden knowledge free for the taking.
Eulogy Enforcer doesn't do anything outside of some sort of token generation and sacrifice combo. You have to be able to consistently kill creatures during the opponents' upkeeps and so on in order to prevent them from playing cards.
Eulogy Enforcer doesn't do anything outside of some sort of token generation and sacrifice combo. You have to be able to consistently kill creatures during the opponents' upkeeps and so on in order to prevent them from playing cards.
Is that your way of saying "Don't worry, it's safe" or more "It's really not a good card." Or both?
More, "It's not going to be good or fun". It won't do anything to your opponent in most situations (especially since it's in white which doesn't have much removal that triggers morbid), unless you're building a combo around it - and even then it won't be good. It's not much fun when your cards don't do things. If it somehow is good, it'll be miserable to play against.
More, "It's not going to be good or fun". It won't do anything to your opponent in most situations (especially since it's in white which doesn't have much removal that triggers morbid), unless you're building a combo around it - and even then it won't be good. It's not much fun when your cards don't do things. If it somehow is good, it'll be miserable to play against.
I'm not a fan of the card.
That's fine, I appreciate the sincerity. I'll bear that in mind going forward.
Preview Card of the Day!
Ranks of the Night3B
Sorcery (U)
Return target creature from your graveyard to the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it. So long as it has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s black and has wither.
Rise from the dead with a gift from the void, a touch that will forever scar.
Ranks of the Night has a potential memory issue, but I *love* the core idea. Very flavorful and very interesting.
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Preview Card of the Day!
Stalking Informant1UU
Creature - Human Rogue (R)
Nemesis (You may pair this with a creature an opponent controls when this enters the battlefield or when the paired creature dies. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis)
Stalking Informant can’t be blocked.
Whenever Stalking Informant’s nemesis attacks, blocks, or activates an ability, draw a card.
2/3
Every move you make, every oath you break, every stride you take, he'll be watching.
Stalking Informant1UU
Creature - Human Rogue (R)
Nemesis (You may pair this with a creature an opponent controls when this enters the battlefield or when the paired creature dies. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis)
Stalking Informant can’t be blocked.
Whenever Stalking Informant’s nemesis attacks, blocks, or activates an ability, draw a card.
2/3
Every move you make, every oath you break, every stride you take, he'll be watching.
This seems really pushed given that 1UU is the standard cost for a 2/2 Unblockable. I'd say make him a 2/2 or 2/1 and only unblockable if paired.
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This seems really pushed given that 1UU is the standard cost for a 2/2 Unblockable. I'd say make him a 2/2 or 2/1 and only unblockable if paired.
1UU is the standard cost for a 2/2 unblockable. At uncommon, if that anymore. Cards like Deathcult Rogue and Latch Seeker don't make the idea of a rare 2/3 can't be blocked seem far fetched. In fact, Jeskai Infiltrator is a 2/3 rare creature with conditional can't be blocked, but the manifest ability on hit. This doesn't have the conditional clause, but is heavier on blue and it's draw a card is something your opponent must choose to grant you. I think they are similar power levels, though I'd say this is better then the infiltrator overall. However, I don't think the infiltrator is a strong card to begin with...
Also, Nemesis doesn't grant abilities when paired, it does things to counter/penalize the creature it's paired with. It's evil soulbound.
1UU is the standard cost for a 2/2 unblockable. At uncommon, if that anymore. Cards like Deathcult Rogue and Latch Seeker don't make the idea of a rare 2/3 can't be blocked seem far fetched. In fact, Jeskai Infiltrator is a 2/3 rare creature with conditional can't be blocked, but the manifest ability on hit. This doesn't have the conditional clause, but is heavier on blue and it's draw a card is something your opponent must choose to grant you. I think they are similar power levels, though I'd say this is better then the infiltrator overall. However, I don't think the infiltrator is a strong card to begin with...
Also, Nemesis doesn't grant abilities when paired, it does things to counter/penalize the creature it's paired with. It's evil soulbound.
If you're set on having it be 2/3 unconditional-unblockable at 1UU, I'd recommend toning down the trigger to be only when the creature attacks
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If you're set on having it be 2/3 unconditional-unblockable at 1UU, I'd recommend toning down the trigger to be only when the creature attacks
I'd rather take away a point of toughness. I'm really looking to make Nemesis creatures as a whole really impactful and antagonizing, so just an attack trigger feels underwhelming. Regardless, I'll have to see who else chimes in the subject. I do appreciate the feedback!
Flame Eradication2RR
Sorcery (U)
Choose one —
* Destroy target land.
* Flame Eradication deals 4 damage to target creature. Morbid — Choose both if a creature died this turn.
The wrath of a Dragon is fierce an totalitarian. Those who would stand against Garandeev don't fair any better than against the void.
I can just fix it with a "You may choose both" clause. Also, yeah, I was lazy with the bullets today. It'll be fixed if the card makes the cut in the end.
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Preview Cards of the Day!
Jeering Airknight3W
Creature - Human Knight (R)
Temptation (You may have this enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Flying
As long as Jeering Airknight has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has “When this attacks, creatures without flying can’t block this turn.”
4/4
Tidal Lord4UU
Creature - Leviathan (U)
Nemesis (You may pair this with a creature an opponent controls when this enters the battlefield or when the paired creature dies. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis)
Tidal Lord’s nemesis doesn’t untap during its controllers untap step.
4/6
Vogorn, Void Touched2BR
Legendary Creature - Horror (R)
When Vogorn, Void Touched attacks, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature defending player controls.
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, Vogorn, Void Touched deals X damage to that creatures controller, where X is the number of -1/-1 counters on that creature.
4/4
Perhaps the deadliest creation of Renedrix. Where it goes, nothing is left but a soil so spoiled with everscar flame and ichor that nothing shall grow there for the age.
All three are fine cards. I could imagine both modes of Jeering Skyknight leading to very quick games, so perhaps it ought to be a little more color-heavy.
Vogorn's suggested wording:
Whenever Vogorn, Void Touched attacks, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature defending player controls.
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, Vogorn deals damage equal to the number of -1/-1 counters on that creature to that creature's controller.
Also I find "Voidtouched" to be a little catchier when it's one single word, or "the Voidtouched".
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I have to do my pushing somewhere, right?
BR represent the most antagonistic pair in the world of Serenta and it certainly shows here. I'm making a point of having the BR removal suite be the strongest overall, distinctly so over white for once. It stands out already somewhat since this set includes Morbid and white traditional exiles things, making it less useful for triggering it and in pairing with other colors that use Morbid more.
That and Bituminous Blast was a point of reference for powerlevel. I wanted it to be somewhat comparable.
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Is it one of the top uncommons in limited or constructed? If we're talking constructed, then you're probably right, this would need to be changed. If we're talking limited, the Khans/Fate's environment is a very different one with it's heavy multi/tri colored support for the mana base where Serenta limited will only have minimal allied color support. Pyrotechnics could fit into many different limited decks while Everscar would require more commitment. That and I am looking to make B/R removal stronger then the average set here, as Serenta is not looking to be battlecruiser magic like Theros or ROE.
I guess I'm trying to say I'm ok with this being a limited bomb so long as it isn't the only one. I do want to encourage people to stretch to allied colors, a power uncommons like this help. That's not to say it still may not need change, but if your concern is for the limited environment, I'd want to playtest it first.
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I'd like to hear what the designer thinks of this point though.
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Stairc is more in line with the direction I've been going.
When I talk about vindictive and hate filled magic, I'm talking about being a threat to your opponent that constantly gets in their way and plays as a more direct villain then the typical magic sets. The "selling" point would be a set that provides cards that must be answered, and inflicting hurt and bonus damage when you do villainous things. The play experience is aimed to be more tit for tat then typical Magic and to up the ante as things die and as your opponent resists.
Nemesis was the core mechanic the inspired the set as a creature that was an antagonist to your opponent's creatures directly. That's an aspect of magic that has always been one of the games (relative) weak points and I like to encourage creature on creature interactions. But I wanted to make it painful.
I first started with Spite, a mechanic that cared about life loss. It fit the idea well of encouraging antagonizing your opponent meaningfully every turn as opposed to alpha striking/battlecruiser setups. The problem arose when I started to consider Wither. Stairc and others we very insistent that if I wanted a set based on hate, Wither would inspire that as it did in the past. When I did make the decision that added it, Morbid was brought to the table as I had already been using it as a reference to design Spite. Since Wither encourage a lot more dying, morbid made more sense in the main set.
From there things evolved. The set's core is really about being a much more confrontational antagonist then normal magic allows. Almost all of the "hate" spells are regulated to effects that would be universally useful against decks, but would be much better against certain colors. Ser Fire Lord is an example of this since it punishes red's direct damage stratagem and their are a many cards like it across the colors.
Further, Serenta is a bottom up design, focusing on the experience of being a direct antagonist by rewarding inflicting pain and death to your opponents forces and punishing key elements of your enemies colors plan (Red punishes Blue Card Draw, White punishes direct damage, etc...). This does not mean I plan on printing cards like Zur's Weirding, Plow Under, Stasis, or Smokestack that are oppressive and prevent people from playing. On the contrary, I want you to make your opponent HURT for what they are doing by having strong answers that reward you as you make things die.
The area where I and others have had some contention are the cards that focus on doing what your color is good at. White gains a fair amount of life in this set (as does green) and rewards doing so. But those elements are their and are strong so red and black cards can punish what your white opponent is really good at. Further, some self focus strategies (Like life gain, counters, etc...) are hated ideas among players and should be elements represented.
The Flavor of Serenta is an expansion of the idea of the set I first started 9 years ago and never quite completed, but many elements of it are subject to change to serve the design goal. Many of them already have.
There are many games and experiences out their that encourage players to take on the role of the attagonist, both against AI's and among friends. It's an aspect of life many don't get to explore (morality issues and all) and enjoy doing so in a fantastical setting. That's what Serenta is to magic. Not a casual "Duel" but a lesson in inflicting harm.
Eulogy Enforcer 1W
Creature - Human Cleric (R)
Morbid - Spells cost 3 more to cast if a creature died this turn
We shall take a moment of silence to remember those lost.
1/3
Respect for the dead is something that is forced, not earned.
Now, I realize I'm posting this card after my long explanation that included saying I was not planning on cards "that are oppressive and prevent people from playing." This is perhaps the one card that is in that direction in the entire set and breaks that train of thought. However, I feel it is the right effect to have for a morbid white card and to push something potentially interesting and powerful in formats outside of standard. I like the design, but the numbers may need work as I feel this is probably really powerful, if not overpowered.
Thoughts?
Keeper of Alacrity 4UU
Creature - Sphinx (R)
Temptation (You may have this enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Flying
As long as Keeper of Alacrity has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has “You may cast nonland, noncreature cards as though they had flash. They can’t be countered.”
5/6
Sphinxes are often guardians of great magical secrets and power. However, even the most stalwart can be driven to temptations, leaving their hidden knowledge free for the taking.
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Is that your way of saying "Don't worry, it's safe" or more "It's really not a good card." Or both?
I'm not a fan of the card.
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That's fine, I appreciate the sincerity. I'll bear that in mind going forward.
Preview Card of the Day!
Ranks of the Night 3B
Sorcery (U)
Return target creature from your graveyard to the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it. So long as it has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s black and has wither.
Rise from the dead with a gift from the void, a touch that will forever scar.
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Thanks!
Preview Card of the Day!
Stalking Informant 1UU
Creature - Human Rogue (R)
Nemesis (You may pair this with a creature an opponent controls when this enters the battlefield or when the paired creature dies. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis)
Stalking Informant can’t be blocked.
Whenever Stalking Informant’s nemesis attacks, blocks, or activates an ability, draw a card.
2/3
Every move you make, every oath you break, every stride you take, he'll be watching.
This seems really pushed given that 1UU is the standard cost for a 2/2 Unblockable. I'd say make him a 2/2 or 2/1 and only unblockable if paired.
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1UU is the standard cost for a 2/2 unblockable. At uncommon, if that anymore. Cards like Deathcult Rogue and Latch Seeker don't make the idea of a rare 2/3 can't be blocked seem far fetched. In fact, Jeskai Infiltrator is a 2/3 rare creature with conditional can't be blocked, but the manifest ability on hit. This doesn't have the conditional clause, but is heavier on blue and it's draw a card is something your opponent must choose to grant you. I think they are similar power levels, though I'd say this is better then the infiltrator overall. However, I don't think the infiltrator is a strong card to begin with...
Also, Nemesis doesn't grant abilities when paired, it does things to counter/penalize the creature it's paired with. It's evil soulbound.
If you're set on having it be 2/3 unconditional-unblockable at 1UU, I'd recommend toning down the trigger to be only when the creature attacks
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I'd rather take away a point of toughness. I'm really looking to make Nemesis creatures as a whole really impactful and antagonizing, so just an attack trigger feels underwhelming. Regardless, I'll have to see who else chimes in the subject. I do appreciate the feedback!
Flame Eradication 2RR
Sorcery (U)
Choose one —
* Destroy target land.
* Flame Eradication deals 4 damage to target creature.
Morbid — Choose both if a creature died this turn.
The wrath of a Dragon is fierce an totalitarian. Those who would stand against Garandeev don't fair any better than against the void.
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Preview Cards of the Day!
Jeering Airknight 3W
Creature - Human Knight (R)
Temptation (You may have this enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Flying
As long as Jeering Airknight has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has “When this attacks, creatures without flying can’t block this turn.”
4/4
Tidal Lord 4UU
Creature - Leviathan (U)
Nemesis (You may pair this with a creature an opponent controls when this enters the battlefield or when the paired creature dies. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis)
Tidal Lord’s nemesis doesn’t untap during its controllers untap step.
4/6
Vogorn, Void Touched 2BR
Legendary Creature - Horror (R)
When Vogorn, Void Touched attacks, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature defending player controls.
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, Vogorn, Void Touched deals X damage to that creatures controller, where X is the number of -1/-1 counters on that creature.
4/4
Perhaps the deadliest creation of Renedrix. Where it goes, nothing is left but a soil so spoiled with everscar flame and ichor that nothing shall grow there for the age.
Vogorn's suggested wording:
Whenever Vogorn, Void Touched attacks, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature defending player controls.
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, Vogorn deals damage equal to the number of -1/-1 counters on that creature to that creature's controller.
Also I find "Voidtouched" to be a little catchier when it's one single word, or "the Voidtouched".
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