It's like reverse devour. I'm not sure how I like it though, it feels kinda weird to have the creatures with the keyword being the ones being eaten.
Another thing I noticed; our artifacts are too colorless. Pretty much all of our artifacts can be played in any deck, which means deck building gets really confusing, especially since a large number of the colored cards can also be played in any deck.
For example, Scars of Mirrodin had three cycles of color-based artifacts, (Spellbombs, Replicas, and another, not to mention the Myrs). These cards are still artifacts and can still technically be played in any deck, but they obviously wanted to be in a deck of a certain color. I feel like giving more of our artifacts color-ties will help clean up limited a lot.
I think this can be done pretty easily simply by altering a couple of our existing artifacts. Or maybe I'm seeing a problem where there isn't one, but from the sealed pools i've done, things get pretty messy when almost every card is a consideration.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Given the world we are in, I think a switch to Modular would be a good idea. If the world were more dystopian, I think Clockwork would be a great mechanic, as a symbol of things eventually breaking down and constantly trying to fight that with a collapsed civilization.
Archester doesn't really have that though, so there's no reason to force the negatives.
I will try to think up some other mechanical-y, artifact-y type mechanics too. And if possible, it should be somewhat simple... Components already add a layer of slight complexity to the board state with artifacts on it.
It's like reverse devour. I'm not sure how I like it though, it feels kinda weird to have the creatures with the keyword being the ones being eaten.
It can also affect non-creature artifacts, or even equipment and components. Why is the Wurm wearing Lightning Greaves? Answer: It isn't, it ate them. It a flavourful mechanic, I think.
Modular... How are our steampunk creatures modular? Can we take one creature apart and put the parts onto another creature? That's what the original Modular mechanic represented. If we can't do that with our creatures, why put Modular here?
Modular... How are our steampunk creatures modular? Can we take one creature apart and put the parts onto another creature? That's what the original Modular mechanic represented. If we can't do that with our creatures, why put Modular here?
Well that could easily become the flavor; the elves recycle parts of the dead animals to rebuild nature. Modular actually fits pretty well into the three colors clockwork used to be: In white, it represents the sacrifice of one for the good of others, and also white's ability to reuse and re-purpose technology. In green, it represents the cycle of life, transferring strength from one organism to another. In black, it represents using the dead as a resource.
The reason I suggested modular was that it was a simple, easy to grok artifact mechanic that used +1/+1 counters. The simplicity was really the important part, since many of our other mechanics (spellslingers especially) are rather complex. Modular is really intuitive, fits with the counter theme left over by clockwork, and I feel still has the potential for design space.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Okay, since we're going with Modular, here's a new name for all the 'Clockwork X' creatures: Createch (Kree-tek). We already have necrotech and pyrotech, so createch is the form of magic that makes the mechanical animals work.
Okay, since we're going with Modular, here's a new name for all the 'Clockwork X' creatures: Createch (Kree-tek). We already have necrotech and pyrotech, so createch is the form of magic that makes the mechanical animals work.
Alternative names: elftech, animech...?
Why do we has to strech that far? We could just call them "biotech". While it's not the modern traditional difinition of the word biotech, all the "bio" prefix means is associated with life. That would make it a nice parallel to the "Necro" and "Pyro" prefixes in the other colors.
Edit: Alternatively, "Fauna" is the Latin prefix for something dealing with animals. So "Faunatech" would work as well.
Blah, Fauantech sounds way too forced. "Necro" and "Pyro" are both of Greek origin, suggest we look at other Greek prefixes that might fit.
After looking through a few, the best I can think of is "Demetech", which is roughly "peopletech". "Endotech", in which endo means "inside" might be ok too.
Then again, I don't think we need to force these different kinds of "techs". I'd be fine with just necro and pyro.
I'm pretty sure it's Biomancy becuase the prefixes in magic are generally Latin/Greek based. For example Necro in Latin/Greek means relating to death where as pyro means relating to fire/flame. Bio is the prefix for life in Latin/Greek. Biotech actually is what would fit in with the cycle.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I'm pretty sure it's Biomancy becuase the prefixes in magic are generally Latin/Greek based. For example Necro in Latin/Greek means relating to death where as pyro means relating to fire/flame. Bio is the prefix for life in Latin/Greek. Biotech actually is what would fit in with the cycle.
But Biotech is the exact opposite of what we're trying to describe. Biotech is life being used as technology. This is technology being used as life. What we're looking at here is more accurately called biomimetics in our parlance. So, "Mimec X" (Mimec Raptor, Mimec Devourer, etc.) perhaps?
I think getting into that is getting a little too bogged down in the weeds. I think we're fine with just necrotech/pyrotech. (Too bad we don't have a plant based one, phytotech sounds awesome.)
There's also the fact that the word "clockwork" is incredibly evocative of steampunk, so it's possible we should be trying to rework it instead of scrapping it. (Modular is still a good idea but let's survey our options first.)
There are a couple of ways to "fix" clockwork. One would be to move the removal of the counter until end of turn. This solves the weird timing and also the combat-math problems, but doesn't fix the fact that this is still a pure downside ability.
What if, however, we just flipped the mechanic on it's head? What if being clockwork meant you wound up instead of down. My imediate thoughts go to the card Chronomaton, which perfectly captures this feel.
Chronomaton's ability is probably too good for common, so we can riff on it. I think having it be instant speed is a bit too much, let's keep it sorcery speed like level up. Let's also increase the cost to be more realistic for common:
Clockwork Bear2(2/G)
Artifact Creature - Bear
Wind Up 1G(1G,T:Put a +1/+1 counter on this. Wind Up only as a sorcery.)
2/2
Might be a bit too cute with the name, but you get the idea. (Note that I made the clockwork cost green specifically so that this feels more like a green card, as I mentioned before.)
The only downside I see with this is that unlike level up this can potentially go on forever, which may or may not be a problem for common. So, what if instead we made the mechanic have a cap like level up?
Clockwork Bear2(2/G)
Artifact Creature - Bear
Clockwork 2 (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this has less than two +1/+1 counters on it, put one on it.)
1/1
This one is kinda like reverse vanishing; your creatures start overcosted but eventually reach their final state over time. Advantages are that this one is free which means you don't have to invest mana and also don't bog the board state down with activated abilities. The downsides are that it's far less engaging (there aren't a lot of decisions to be made).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
The upkeep trigger doesn't feel NWO-ish. I think the activated ability version might be a better way to go, although you're right it could be dangerous at common.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Clockwork Bear2(2/G)
Artifact Creature - Bear Torsion 2 (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this has less than two +1/+1 counters on it, put one on it.)
1/1
That suggestion for a mechanic name comes from torsion springs, the most common type of mainspring in clockwork technology. Flavour it like having a second spring winding the mainspring if effort is expended.
That suggestion for a mechanic name comes from torsion springs, the most common type of mainspring in clockwork technology. Flavour it like having a second spring winding the mainspring if effort is expended.
The fact you have to explain to me what it is means it's probably not a good name for a keyword. Keywords should be easy and grokable, even if they sound kinda dumb sometimes (I'm looking at you, metalcraft...)
We've got three options on the table, which do people like best or does anyone have a tweak they want to propose?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Growing is a cool mechanic but doesn't feel very "techie" to me. I think Modular fits much more, as you can move pieces from your "old" tech to your "new" tech.
A better argument against the name clockwork would be that it already has an established mechanical identity, but as they did with slivers I wouldn't really mind changing that identity if it meant improving the mechanic.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
A better argument against the name clockwork would be that it already has an established mechanical identity, but as they did with slivers I wouldn't really mind changing that identity if it meant improving the mechanic.
Another thing I noticed; our artifacts are too colorless. Pretty much all of our artifacts can be played in any deck, which means deck building gets really confusing, especially since a large number of the colored cards can also be played in any deck.
For example, Scars of Mirrodin had three cycles of color-based artifacts, (Spellbombs, Replicas, and another, not to mention the Myrs). These cards are still artifacts and can still technically be played in any deck, but they obviously wanted to be in a deck of a certain color. I feel like giving more of our artifacts color-ties will help clean up limited a lot.
I think this can be done pretty easily simply by altering a couple of our existing artifacts. Or maybe I'm seeing a problem where there isn't one, but from the sealed pools i've done, things get pretty messy when almost every card is a consideration.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Archester doesn't really have that though, so there's no reason to force the negatives.
I will try to think up some other mechanical-y, artifact-y type mechanics too. And if possible, it should be somewhat simple... Components already add a layer of slight complexity to the board state with artifacts on it.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It can also affect non-creature artifacts, or even equipment and components. Why is the Wurm wearing Lightning Greaves? Answer: It isn't, it ate them. It a flavourful mechanic, I think.
Modular... How are our steampunk creatures modular? Can we take one creature apart and put the parts onto another creature? That's what the original Modular mechanic represented. If we can't do that with our creatures, why put Modular here?
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Well that could easily become the flavor; the elves recycle parts of the dead animals to rebuild nature. Modular actually fits pretty well into the three colors clockwork used to be: In white, it represents the sacrifice of one for the good of others, and also white's ability to reuse and re-purpose technology. In green, it represents the cycle of life, transferring strength from one organism to another. In black, it represents using the dead as a resource.
The reason I suggested modular was that it was a simple, easy to grok artifact mechanic that used +1/+1 counters. The simplicity was really the important part, since many of our other mechanics (spellslingers especially) are rather complex. Modular is really intuitive, fits with the counter theme left over by clockwork, and I feel still has the potential for design space.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Alternative names: elftech, animech...?
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Why do we has to strech that far? We could just call them "biotech". While it's not the modern traditional difinition of the word biotech, all the "bio" prefix means is associated with life. That would make it a nice parallel to the "Necro" and "Pyro" prefixes in the other colors.
Edit: Alternatively, "Fauna" is the Latin prefix for something dealing with animals. So "Faunatech" would work as well.
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
After looking through a few, the best I can think of is "Demetech", which is roughly "peopletech". "Endotech", in which endo means "inside" might be ok too.
Then again, I don't think we need to force these different kinds of "techs". I'd be fine with just necro and pyro.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
But Biotech is the exact opposite of what we're trying to describe. Biotech is life being used as technology. This is technology being used as life. What we're looking at here is more accurately called biomimetics in our parlance. So, "Mimec X" (Mimec Raptor, Mimec Devourer, etc.) perhaps?
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
There are a couple of ways to "fix" clockwork. One would be to move the removal of the counter until end of turn. This solves the weird timing and also the combat-math problems, but doesn't fix the fact that this is still a pure downside ability.
What if, however, we just flipped the mechanic on it's head? What if being clockwork meant you wound up instead of down. My imediate thoughts go to the card Chronomaton, which perfectly captures this feel.
Chronomaton's ability is probably too good for common, so we can riff on it. I think having it be instant speed is a bit too much, let's keep it sorcery speed like level up. Let's also increase the cost to be more realistic for common:
Clockwork Bear 2(2/G)
Artifact Creature - Bear
Wind Up 1G (1G,T:Put a +1/+1 counter on this. Wind Up only as a sorcery.)
2/2
Might be a bit too cute with the name, but you get the idea. (Note that I made the clockwork cost green specifically so that this feels more like a green card, as I mentioned before.)
The only downside I see with this is that unlike level up this can potentially go on forever, which may or may not be a problem for common. So, what if instead we made the mechanic have a cap like level up?
Clockwork Bear 2(2/G)
Artifact Creature - Bear
Clockwork 2 (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this has less than two +1/+1 counters on it, put one on it.)
1/1
This one is kinda like reverse vanishing; your creatures start overcosted but eventually reach their final state over time. Advantages are that this one is free which means you don't have to invest mana and also don't bog the board state down with activated abilities. The downsides are that it's far less engaging (there aren't a lot of decisions to be made).
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
Which part? Nothing in it seems against NWO as far as I can tell.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I was referring to the "if" trigger. IDK it's probably fine and I'm just being overly cautious.
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
That suggestion for a mechanic name comes from torsion springs, the most common type of mainspring in clockwork technology. Flavour it like having a second spring winding the mainspring if effort is expended.
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
The fact you have to explain to me what it is means it's probably not a good name for a keyword. Keywords should be easy and grokable, even if they sound kinda dumb sometimes (I'm looking at you, metalcraft...)
We've got three options on the table, which do people like best or does anyone have a tweak they want to propose?
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
Wind Up (:?mana:,T: Put a +1/+1 counter on this. Wind up only as a sorcery)
Growing N (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this has less than N +1/+1 counters on it, put one on it.)
Modular N (This enters the battlefield with three +1/+1 counters on it. When it dies, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact creature.)
Of these three, which do we want? Let's actually take a vote, and feel free to suggest something else.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
Though we can use the word 'Tension'; like Tension X.
Voting for Growing.
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
That's not really true. For instance, Battle Cry, Dredge, Flash, Overload, Rebound, and Recover are all cards and mechanics. Not to mention cards like Exalted Angel.
A better argument against the name clockwork would be that it already has an established mechanical identity, but as they did with slivers I wouldn't really mind changing that identity if it meant improving the mechanic.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
When did they change the 'Sliver' mechanic?
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam