Well, when I say it sucks, it just means I'm not happy with it, I haven't playtested it so I can't say how it stacks up gameplay-wise. Specifically, I'm not happy with the mechanic - I want to keep an 'enchantments matter' theme, but the color group as a whole needs more 'oomph' to it.
1.) A mechanic that cares about enchantments number. Possible name: Seal
Preview Card:
Mesmerize wu
Instant
Return target creature to its owner's hand.
Seal - Put that creature on top of its owner's library instead. (Activate this ability only if you control three or more enchantments.)
2.) Creatures that turn to Enchantments (or Auras) when they die. Possible name: Ascension
Spiritform Drake 4wu
Creature - Drake
Flying, Vigilance
As long as Spiritform Drake is an enchantment, creatures you control get +1/+1 and have flying and vigilance.
Ascension 1wu (When this creature dies you may pay 1wu. If you do return it to the battlefield under your control. It loses all card types and becomes an enchantment.)
4/5
Tell me what you think about them.
Not a big fan of seal, but I do like the idea behind ascension, and it's close to what I'd wanted to accomplish with the licid mechanic that is currently there. I'll play with this.
I have noticed some things while looking at your cards.
1.) The Deep One went to a CMC of 15 (Why? I would love to Pod Emrakul XD)
2.) Brutal Justice and Gallows Square have the same Art.
3.) The Planeswalker's and the R Consortium Planeswalker's second abilities are similiar.
Just saying though.
1) I haven't touched the Deep One in a long time - what was it's CMC? Also, remember that as far as these cards go, Pod and Emrakul don't exist
2) Indeed. I'd noticed this when I made them and had meant to change the art for Gallow's Square - guess I forgot.
3) you're right. I'm not happy with the R consortium walker at all - feels out of place compared to the rest of the cycle. It will lily be reworked. I also somehow forgot to give her loyalty...
Have had the opportunity to participate in several 2 and 4 player drafts with the Hybrid set over the past couple weeks. Overall it plays very well, but one thing that is becoming very clear is that I do not need to include 90% of the mana fixing that is included in the set, as the hybrid mana just makes it so versatile that you hardly need it (this is a good thing, as it is intended)
Another big need that has made itself apparent is that the set needs more equipment (or fewer cards that care about it). So I'm thinking of scrapping either the artifact mana cycle, or the dual land cycle, and replacing them with equipment. Ideas?
EDIT: I've removed the 'altar' cycle of mana producing artifacts and replaced them with 10 artifacts (8 equipment, 1 planeswalker, and 1 artifact). These artifacts are very powerful, to say the least, but I think they actually will be a good place to start. Playtesting will tell how they need to be tweaked.
Corrupted Loxodon Maul
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+0 and has trample.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage, it also deals that much damage to target player.
Equip 3 (:3mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Golem of War
Artifact Creature — Golem
At the beginning of your upkeep, choose two — Flying; intimidate, first strike; vigilance; lifelink; trample; or hexproof. Golem of War has the chosen abilities until the beginning of your next turn.
3/3
Heartspark Golem Alpha
Artifact Planeswalker
Starting Loyalty: 6
At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay X. If you do, put X loyalty counters on Heartspark Golem Alpha.
-2: Target artifact becomes a 3/3 artifact creature.
-15: Search your library for up to three artifacts, reveal them, and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
-20: Put a 20/20 colorless Golem artifact creature token with trample onto the battlefield. You get an emblem with “permanents you control are indestructible.”
Scimitars of the Writhing Grave
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets -1/-1, gains first strike, and is a black zombie in addition to its other colors and types.
Whenever Scimitars of the Writhing Grave becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent.
Return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield: Lose life equal to that creature’s converted mana cost and attach Scimitars of the Writhing Grave to it.
Sword of Pure Fire
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has plainswalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, Sword of Pure Fire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Ice
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has mountainwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may tap target creature. That creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s next untap step.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Light
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has swampwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you gain 2 life.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Power
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has islandwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Shadow
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has forestwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Voodoo Cauldron
Artifact
:symtap:: Put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard then draw a card.
Playtesting on the hybrid set continues and is going well. The removal of the mana artifacts made drafting the set much more interesting, and the sword cycle is proving to be powerful but not overly so.
I've updated the set file and .pdf again, but this time there are no big redesigns, just numbers tweaking. In particular, many of the planeswalker ultimates were set too high and have been lowered to put those abilities within range of being reached.
I'm working on the design of the Wedge set and will also be doing another revision pass on the Shard set while the Hybrid set continues to be playtested, but I'd say I'm happy where things are going. If anyone is interested in helping playtest, do let me know.
Barring any protests from posters here, I'll be requesting this thread locked and will be closing discussion on the Crucible block on MTGS. While I don't intend to stop work on the block, as I've gotten quite a bit of interest for it elsewhere, I don't see much interest here - which is perfectly fine, mind you, I just don't want to be cluttering up the forum with a project that there isn't much interest in.
You should most definitely keep going. Although we don't post much here, my play group and I come back to this thread to check for updates before we playtest these, and from the playtesting that's happened so far we're all very interested to see what shows up next.
Speaking of playtesting, I've PM'd you my notes on the shard set (suffice it here to say it's got compelling ideas but needs a lot of work.). Here are some thoughts on the hybrid set -
16 planeswalkers certainly isn't too many - the high number of PWs is one of the more compelling things about this setting. In fact, I think you should do more to provide the opportunity for a 'superfriends' draft archetype - things like the Corporeal Spark are really cool, but I feel like there should be one or two more that really help the Planeswalker theme. Most of us feel like Champion's Library, from the first set, would be well suited for this set instead given it's higher number of PWs.
Embolden is an ok mechanic but we feel like you could do more with it - currently there aren't any Embolden cards (with the exception of Angelic Upheaval) that are very compelling. Beef them up a bit, and give them more utility for your Legends/PWs (Embolden - as long as you control a legendary creature or planeswalker, this has "T: prevent up to X damage to target legendary creature or planeswalker" or something to that extent.
The Shard set had multiple alternate win conditions - which we love. The hybrid set has none. We would love to see the hybrid set get another deck archetype built around an alternate win-con, maybe on an artifact or land card.
There are two counterspells in the whole set. Need more!
Good mechanics: Unity (seriously - so much fun), Bloodcall, Forge, Resurge, Everburn (would be broken in a real set), uproar (if a bit random)
Need work: Ascend (This is a good mechanic, but kinda boring), Embolden (as previously mentioned), Subvert (This may just be my personal though, as some of my group loves this mechanic. It's too controlly for me), Bounty (feels weak), Swell (no one wants to skip their draw step)
The mini-sword cycle needs playtested a bit more before we can say for sure, but it's a little too powerful in an equipment deck. Maybe add a bit more artifact destruction, or tone these down. Then again, it just makes things unblockable, and there are a lot of creature removal spells in the set, so it might be ok.
Keep going - these sets have been fun and with a little bit of polish I think you could have a really entertaining format on your hands.
Glad you guys are interested. I know non-traditional sets like this don't always get a lot of interest, which is understandable, but since there's at least a little bit of interest I will keep going.
@Nckelley -
Glad you guys have been enjoying playtesting. I never really thought of the hybrid set as the 'planeswalkers' set, but it makes sense since there are 6 more planeswalkers in this set than in the other two, so I'll do a bit more to reinforce a 'superfriends' theme as you put it. It'll mean adjusting a lot of things in the set, so it'll take time to implement that in an update, but here are some designs that might make things interesting:
Unascended Initiate1W
Creature - Human
When CARDNAME deals combat damage, put an enlightenment counter on it. Then, if there are three or more enlightenment counters on CARDNAME, you may sacrifice it. If you do, search your library for a Legendary Creature or Planeswalker card and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
1/2
This could be a one-off creature in whatever color might make the most sense, or be a cycle of creatures with slightly different triggers for enlightenment. I'll also be taking your suggestion and moving Champion's Library to this set.
I'm not convinced that bounty and ascend need a complete rework, though I do agree that they are uninteresting as they currently stand. However, I do think that Swell needs to be scrapped entirely and replaced with a new mechanic. I'm open to suggestions as to what, but I'm currently considering the following:
Augment [COST] (Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay [COST] and exile it. At the beginning of your upkeep, put an augment counter on this card, then you may cast it without paying its mana cost. It enters the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters equal to the number of augment counters on it.)
There are problems with this and it hasn't been tweaked, it's just a general idea and I'm open to other suggestions for the mechanic.
Haven't made any progress on redesigning the less popular mechanics, but I did want to update you guys on what I'm doing to enable planeswalker draft strategies and see if you had any other ideas on how to make it more viable.
The 'consortium' cycle - Previously, these always cost two colored mana. I've changed the mana cost to be one of a color, and then a twobrid of that color, to make these a bit more friendly for multicolor PW draft.
Champion's Library was moved in and Vanishing Peaks was moved to the Shard set.
Ghaithar - now costs 3:symrw::symrw:, down from 3:symrw::symrw::symrw:
Eilwinn - now costs 1:symgw::symgw:, down from :symgw::symgw::symgw:
Evolutionary Growth - now costs 1G, changed from GG
Living Glade - Now can untap any land, not just lands that can produce G
If there seems to be a theme here, there is. All of these changes are aimed at making a five-color PW strategy more viable by making mana costs more forgiving. I've not done any big redesigns, and I've not gone in to improve any embolden creatures just yet (In fact, after looking I'm not sure they need much improvement). Also, I haven't added in the Initiate cycle because I'm not sure whether it should be a cycle, or a one-off effect.
The 'consortium' cycle - Previously, these always cost two colored mana. I've changed the mana cost to be one of a color, and then a twobrid of that color, to make these a bit more friendly for multicolor PW draft.
That's a really awkward cost. You shouldn't do that. If you want to keep the current lineup, just exchange one colored mana for one colorless. Another way would be to focus the super friends theme in certain colors (kind of like levelers in ROE. They're in all colors, but strongest in :symw::symu:). The other changes sound good.
Here are some simple icons for your third set. If you have something else in mind, tell me. These really take only 5 minutes to make.
That's a really awkward cost. You shouldn't do that. If you want to keep the current lineup, just exchange one colored mana for one colorless. Another way would be to focus the super friends theme in certain colors (kind of like levelers in ROE. They're in all colors, but strongest in :symw::symu:). The other changes sound good.
I think you're right. It's a pretty OP cost in the real world, but twobrid cost is very awkward, and I think 1+color may not be terrible.
Here are some simple icons for your third set. If you have something else in mind, tell me. These really take only 5 minutes to make.
Dude these are great. Much, much better than anything I'd been able to find on google image search. These work very well, thank you.
-------
In other news, I had another opportunity to play with these cards last night and I had a mixed reaction to them. On the one hand, some of the cards are a lot of fun to play and even awkward mechanics that will be changing, like swell, worked just about like I wanted them to. However, one thing that was awkward was the draft itself.
I liked the idea, initially, of having an almost all-hybrid set - iI thought it would open the format up a lot and provide many interesting draft opportunities, and indeed it has, but I'm thinking it may open things up a bit too much. I drafted with MTGS user AranMagnus and he and I both that it was hard to focus our decks, and harder to deck build, because of the open-endedness of the hybrid costs.
Now, this may not be a problem - the set is designed so that you're drafting less about color and more about 'what strategy am I using', but using color to direct that is one of the basic components of MtG and opening that up so much may take away an opportunity guide for players, especially less experienced ones, so I'm considering redesigning the set so that the hybrid cards are instead dual-color gold cards. I'd love anyone's feedback on this, especially feedback from those who've had the opportunity to draft the set.
Question. Where can we draft the set? I'm a bit new in using the programmes of converting the set in a draft.
There's not really a good way to draft online. The players that I have helping with playtesting in draft are using printed proxies in their playgroups, all of whom are local.
That said, I'll post up an MWS plugin and a Cockatrice Plugin (as soon as I finish the Cockatrice plugin for Apoquallyp's Iamur set, which I've been meaning to get to for over a week) and using these programs you can play with the set. I believe there's a seperate website that can be programmed with the cards to draft the set, and then you can make the decks in whatever program you use and go from there, I'll just have to look into it more.
I've had the opportunity now to play a few drafts with MTGS user AranMagnus, and a few sealed pools with NCKelley82, and it's definitely been a learning experience.
First off, I still really like the idea of a 'modular cube'. I think, if designed properly, it would work and work well. That said, I've made several design mistakes that have rendered the format un-fun and almost unplayable, in my opinion, and I am therefore going back to the drawing board completely.
Some of the problems with the project in its current form:
Too many possibilities. Drafing a set that is almost entirely hybrid can be mind-numbing. The wide variety of choices makes deck building extremely complex, even for fairly experienced players.
Too few possibilities. Funny how both too many, and too few possibilities can be problems at the same time, but that's what we've got. The sheer number of new mechanics packed into a 180-card set makes it to where there are very few outside possibilities - you pick a color group and tend to stick with it, making drafts un-fun. Kinda reminds me of Alara Reborn (which, IMO, was not a fun limited environment.)
Too many mechanics! This hearkens to the previous problem, but cramming in as few as 7 and as many as 11 new mechanics into a 180-card set is just ridiculous. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what I was thinking.
Some of the strengths of the project:
A lot of the mechanics were quite fun to play with. I initially intended the project to double as a testing ground for mechanics I may use in future set, and in that way it did succeed.
Attempting to draft a super-friends deck is a lot of fun, and not something you'd be able to do in a normal set. I will definitely be designing a custom cube at some point that uses these concepts.
The high power level is fun, for the same reason that drafting planeswalkers is fun.
So where does that leave me? I see two options - first, I start the set over again, this time designing it as a standard set and not a powered cube, utilizing the best mechanics from the failed cube version. Or, I redesign it and keep the modular cube concept, but drastically reduce the multi-color and new mechanics and focus on the high power and legendary creatures/planeswalkers theme. I haven't decided which, I thought I'd open that up for community feedback, but it is safe to say that this project, in its current form, is defunct.
I don't have an opinion on whether you should make it a cube or a normal set, as you and your playtesters should decide that. However, I suggest that you stick more to the normal magic "design codex", if it's just for an exercise for future projects. What I mean with this are for example the hybrid cards that don't really have hybrid effects ect.
Considering your problem with the too many/too few possibilities: I think the most fun formats are those where the set doesn't tell you what to do. For example, Gatecrash or Shards of Alara tell you to draft one of five possible color combinations, and there isn't much room for experimentation. However, Return to Ravnica block draft on the other hand has too many things going on in my opinion. You first-pick a Populate card and end up not playing it because you only got two token generators.
So, what's the best solution? You have to design a few key strategies, but you have to make sure that player's aren't constrained to them. You have to design a few cards that could work well with multiple of the key archetypes, then you design cards that work well with those ect. A Venn diagram of different archetypes with much overlap.
My first set fell into the "Shards of Alara" category, and my second set into the "Return to Ravnica Block" category, so I haven't figured out everything completely myself :Psyduck:.
You summed the issue up rather nicely. I'm sure this is something a lot of designers have run into here, this was just my time to do it, and I'm certain I'll be all the better for it because it gives me an opportunity to learn from the mistake. There are multiple set's worth of stuff that I've tried to cram into this cube - Time to dissect it and figure out what goes where.
To those who are playtesting - thanks for all the helpful feedback. Hopefully this doesn't run you guys off, I'll have a newer playable version eventually, hopefully inside a few weeks.
I'd like to add one more thing: A set needs a good mixture of non-parasitic and parasitic mechanics. So, if Kicker is a on the parasitism-scale, and Splice onto Arcane is a :rate5:, your mechanics should range somewhere between and :rate3:. Drafting around mechanics is always fun, but if the mechanics are too parasitic, you stifle the player's creativity.
Probably old news, but just wanted to add it for the sake of completeness :tongue:.
As someone else who's designing a custom cube quite similar to this, what are your plans, if any, for creating a paper version of this?
I can't, or won't, go into too much detail on how I plan on printing this, because it could easily be used to create fake MtG cards, and spreading that info is (I believe) against the ToS. However, suffice it to say that for testing, I print a run of these at my local kinkos and sleeve them up with bulk commons (for the weight). For the final product, I have a method that produces pretty solid looking proxy cards.
And now, an update on this project -
As previously mentioned, there are many issues that make this set play poorly. I've got a new skeleton and am filling it in, and I'll start posting it up as soon as I near a workable version of it. As of now, I've only got the artifacts and about 3/4 of the white cards planned out.
There is one place where I would love to have some help. I've settled on five 2-color groups (ala RtR) for the first 180-card set, the other five for another, and then either shards, wedges, or both (and do four sets instead of three). For the first five, I'm missing a compelling mechanic. I'm stumped, completely - I know I want it to be a control-oriented mechanic, and I know I'd like for it to be enchantment heavy. Anyone want to contribute some design ideas?
Example since it is one drops that destroy enchantments try something like this.
Ether Armor 1UW
Enchantment - Aura U
Etherized(Opponents must pay 1 to target this spell.)
Enchanted creature gets a +1/+1 and "When this creature deals combat damage to an opponent put a +1/+1 counter on this creature and draw a card."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ophelia Le Doux (R/B)
Creature - Vampire Assassin
Haste First Strike
1/1
Designers have talked about the issues with enchantment - auras for a while. They are vulnerable to three different targets: counterspells, kill creatures, and destroy enchantments. This is why totem armor and now creature enchantments were designed. Equipment also has some of the benefits that enchantment - auras have given in the past. This gives much of the same benefits, half the risk.
I have enjoyed looking at this cube set. I always enjoy your work advent.
Designers have talked about the issues with enchantment - auras for a while. They are vulnerable to three different targets: counterspells, kill creatures, and destroy enchantments. This is why totem armor and now creature enchantments were designed. Equipment also has some of the benefits that enchantment - auras have given in the past. This gives much of the same benefits, half the risk.
I have enjoyed looking at this cube set. I always enjoy your work advent.
As soon as I saw Bestow I about jumped out of my chair - Bestow is exactly what I was looking for in the mechanic here.
alas, the mechanic problem is the least of the problems I have with this project, and I (for all intents and purposes) have abandoned the project as a whole. It's a fun idea, I think, and one I may revisit at a later time, but to make this truly playable and functional in the way I want it to be would require a complete redesign from square one, and that's something I just don't have in me at the moment.
I'm going to request the mods lock this thread, and I'll be moving on to a more traditional project that I've been working on and am actually pretty excited about. (you can always read updates about my projects on my blog, http://adventares.wordpress.com). In the meantime, thanks for the feedback on this set and sorry to abandon it, but I hope you'll check out my next project when it pops up on here - I think it has a lot more potential.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
Not a big fan of seal, but I do like the idea behind ascension, and it's close to what I'd wanted to accomplish with the licid mechanic that is currently there. I'll play with this.
1) I haven't touched the Deep One in a long time - what was it's CMC? Also, remember that as far as these cards go, Pod and Emrakul don't exist
2) Indeed. I'd noticed this when I made them and had meant to change the art for Gallow's Square - guess I forgot.
3) you're right. I'm not happy with the R consortium walker at all - feels out of place compared to the rest of the cycle. It will lily be reworked. I also somehow forgot to give her loyalty...
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
Another big need that has made itself apparent is that the set needs more equipment (or fewer cards that care about it). So I'm thinking of scrapping either the artifact mana cycle, or the dual land cycle, and replacing them with equipment. Ideas?
EDIT: I've removed the 'altar' cycle of mana producing artifacts and replaced them with 10 artifacts (8 equipment, 1 planeswalker, and 1 artifact). These artifacts are very powerful, to say the least, but I think they actually will be a good place to start. Playtesting will tell how they need to be tweaked.
Corrupted Loxodon Maul
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+0 and has trample.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage, it also deals that much damage to target player.
Equip 3 (:3mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Golem of War
Artifact Creature — Golem
At the beginning of your upkeep, choose two — Flying; intimidate, first strike; vigilance; lifelink; trample; or hexproof. Golem of War has the chosen abilities until the beginning of your next turn.
3/3
Heartspark Golem Alpha
Artifact Planeswalker
Starting Loyalty: 6
At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay X. If you do, put X loyalty counters on Heartspark Golem Alpha.
-2: Target artifact becomes a 3/3 artifact creature.
-15: Search your library for up to three artifacts, reveal them, and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
-20: Put a 20/20 colorless Golem artifact creature token with trample onto the battlefield. You get an emblem with “permanents you control are indestructible.”
Scimitars of the Writhing Grave
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets -1/-1, gains first strike, and is a black zombie in addition to its other colors and types.
Whenever Scimitars of the Writhing Grave becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent.
Return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield: Lose life equal to that creature’s converted mana cost and attach Scimitars of the Writhing Grave to it.
Sword of Pure Fire
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has plainswalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, Sword of Pure Fire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Ice
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has mountainwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may tap target creature. That creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s next untap step.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Light
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has swampwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you gain 2 life.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Power
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has islandwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Sword of Pure Shadow
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has forestwalk.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card.
Equip 2 (:2mana:: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Voodoo Cauldron
Artifact
:symtap:: Put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard then draw a card.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
I've updated the set file and .pdf again, but this time there are no big redesigns, just numbers tweaking. In particular, many of the planeswalker ultimates were set too high and have been lowered to put those abilities within range of being reached.
I'm working on the design of the Wedge set and will also be doing another revision pass on the Shard set while the Hybrid set continues to be playtested, but I'd say I'm happy where things are going. If anyone is interested in helping playtest, do let me know.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Speaking of playtesting, I've PM'd you my notes on the shard set (suffice it here to say it's got compelling ideas but needs a lot of work.). Here are some thoughts on the hybrid set -
16 planeswalkers certainly isn't too many - the high number of PWs is one of the more compelling things about this setting. In fact, I think you should do more to provide the opportunity for a 'superfriends' draft archetype - things like the Corporeal Spark are really cool, but I feel like there should be one or two more that really help the Planeswalker theme. Most of us feel like Champion's Library, from the first set, would be well suited for this set instead given it's higher number of PWs.
Embolden is an ok mechanic but we feel like you could do more with it - currently there aren't any Embolden cards (with the exception of Angelic Upheaval) that are very compelling. Beef them up a bit, and give them more utility for your Legends/PWs (Embolden - as long as you control a legendary creature or planeswalker, this has "T: prevent up to X damage to target legendary creature or planeswalker" or something to that extent.
The Shard set had multiple alternate win conditions - which we love. The hybrid set has none. We would love to see the hybrid set get another deck archetype built around an alternate win-con, maybe on an artifact or land card.
There are two counterspells in the whole set. Need more!
Good mechanics: Unity (seriously - so much fun), Bloodcall, Forge, Resurge, Everburn (would be broken in a real set), uproar (if a bit random)
Need work: Ascend (This is a good mechanic, but kinda boring), Embolden (as previously mentioned), Subvert (This may just be my personal though, as some of my group loves this mechanic. It's too controlly for me), Bounty (feels weak), Swell (no one wants to skip their draw step)
The mini-sword cycle needs playtested a bit more before we can say for sure, but it's a little too powerful in an equipment deck. Maybe add a bit more artifact destruction, or tone these down. Then again, it just makes things unblockable, and there are a lot of creature removal spells in the set, so it might be ok.
Keep going - these sets have been fun and with a little bit of polish I think you could have a really entertaining format on your hands.
Glad you guys are interested. I know non-traditional sets like this don't always get a lot of interest, which is understandable, but since there's at least a little bit of interest I will keep going.
@Nckelley -
Glad you guys have been enjoying playtesting. I never really thought of the hybrid set as the 'planeswalkers' set, but it makes sense since there are 6 more planeswalkers in this set than in the other two, so I'll do a bit more to reinforce a 'superfriends' theme as you put it. It'll mean adjusting a lot of things in the set, so it'll take time to implement that in an update, but here are some designs that might make things interesting:
Creature - Human
When CARDNAME deals combat damage, put an enlightenment counter on it. Then, if there are three or more enlightenment counters on CARDNAME, you may sacrifice it. If you do, search your library for a Legendary Creature or Planeswalker card and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
1/2
This could be a one-off creature in whatever color might make the most sense, or be a cycle of creatures with slightly different triggers for enlightenment. I'll also be taking your suggestion and moving Champion's Library to this set.
I'm not convinced that bounty and ascend need a complete rework, though I do agree that they are uninteresting as they currently stand. However, I do think that Swell needs to be scrapped entirely and replaced with a new mechanic. I'm open to suggestions as to what, but I'm currently considering the following:
There are problems with this and it hasn't been tweaked, it's just a general idea and I'm open to other suggestions for the mechanic.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
The 'consortium' cycle - Previously, these always cost two colored mana. I've changed the mana cost to be one of a color, and then a twobrid of that color, to make these a bit more friendly for multicolor PW draft.
Champion's Library was moved in and Vanishing Peaks was moved to the Shard set.
Ghaithar - now costs 3:symrw::symrw:, down from 3:symrw::symrw::symrw:
Eilwinn - now costs 1:symgw::symgw:, down from :symgw::symgw::symgw:
Evolutionary Growth - now costs 1G, changed from GG
Living Glade - Now can untap any land, not just lands that can produce G
If there seems to be a theme here, there is. All of these changes are aimed at making a five-color PW strategy more viable by making mana costs more forgiving. I've not done any big redesigns, and I've not gone in to improve any embolden creatures just yet (In fact, after looking I'm not sure they need much improvement). Also, I haven't added in the Initiate cycle because I'm not sure whether it should be a cycle, or a one-off effect.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
That's a really awkward cost. You shouldn't do that. If you want to keep the current lineup, just exchange one colored mana for one colorless. Another way would be to focus the super friends theme in certain colors (kind of like levelers in ROE. They're in all colors, but strongest in :symw::symu:). The other changes sound good.
Here are some simple icons for your third set. If you have something else in mind, tell me. These really take only 5 minutes to make.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
I think you're right. It's a pretty OP cost in the real world, but twobrid cost is very awkward, and I think 1+color may not be terrible.
Dude these are great. Much, much better than anything I'd been able to find on google image search. These work very well, thank you.
In other news, I had another opportunity to play with these cards last night and I had a mixed reaction to them. On the one hand, some of the cards are a lot of fun to play and even awkward mechanics that will be changing, like swell, worked just about like I wanted them to. However, one thing that was awkward was the draft itself.
I liked the idea, initially, of having an almost all-hybrid set - iI thought it would open the format up a lot and provide many interesting draft opportunities, and indeed it has, but I'm thinking it may open things up a bit too much. I drafted with MTGS user AranMagnus and he and I both that it was hard to focus our decks, and harder to deck build, because of the open-endedness of the hybrid costs.
Now, this may not be a problem - the set is designed so that you're drafting less about color and more about 'what strategy am I using', but using color to direct that is one of the basic components of MtG and opening that up so much may take away an opportunity guide for players, especially less experienced ones, so I'm considering redesigning the set so that the hybrid cards are instead dual-color gold cards. I'd love anyone's feedback on this, especially feedback from those who've had the opportunity to draft the set.
Thanks!
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
There's not really a good way to draft online. The players that I have helping with playtesting in draft are using printed proxies in their playgroups, all of whom are local.
That said, I'll post up an MWS plugin and a Cockatrice Plugin (as soon as I finish the Cockatrice plugin for Apoquallyp's Iamur set, which I've been meaning to get to for over a week) and using these programs you can play with the set. I believe there's a seperate website that can be programmed with the cards to draft the set, and then you can make the decks in whatever program you use and go from there, I'll just have to look into it more.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
I've had the opportunity now to play a few drafts with MTGS user AranMagnus, and a few sealed pools with NCKelley82, and it's definitely been a learning experience.
First off, I still really like the idea of a 'modular cube'. I think, if designed properly, it would work and work well. That said, I've made several design mistakes that have rendered the format un-fun and almost unplayable, in my opinion, and I am therefore going back to the drawing board completely.
Some of the problems with the project in its current form:
Some of the strengths of the project:
So where does that leave me? I see two options - first, I start the set over again, this time designing it as a standard set and not a powered cube, utilizing the best mechanics from the failed cube version. Or, I redesign it and keep the modular cube concept, but drastically reduce the multi-color and new mechanics and focus on the high power and legendary creatures/planeswalkers theme. I haven't decided which, I thought I'd open that up for community feedback, but it is safe to say that this project, in its current form, is defunct.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
Considering your problem with the too many/too few possibilities: I think the most fun formats are those where the set doesn't tell you what to do. For example, Gatecrash or Shards of Alara tell you to draft one of five possible color combinations, and there isn't much room for experimentation. However, Return to Ravnica block draft on the other hand has too many things going on in my opinion. You first-pick a Populate card and end up not playing it because you only got two token generators.
So, what's the best solution? You have to design a few key strategies, but you have to make sure that player's aren't constrained to them. You have to design a few cards that could work well with multiple of the key archetypes, then you design cards that work well with those ect. A Venn diagram of different archetypes with much overlap.
My first set fell into the "Shards of Alara" category, and my second set into the "Return to Ravnica Block" category, so I haven't figured out everything completely myself :Psyduck:.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
You summed the issue up rather nicely. I'm sure this is something a lot of designers have run into here, this was just my time to do it, and I'm certain I'll be all the better for it because it gives me an opportunity to learn from the mistake. There are multiple set's worth of stuff that I've tried to cram into this cube - Time to dissect it and figure out what goes where.
To those who are playtesting - thanks for all the helpful feedback. Hopefully this doesn't run you guys off, I'll have a newer playable version eventually, hopefully inside a few weeks.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
I'd like to add one more thing: A set needs a good mixture of non-parasitic and parasitic mechanics. So, if Kicker is a on the parasitism-scale, and Splice onto Arcane is a :rate5:, your mechanics should range somewhere between and :rate3:. Drafting around mechanics is always fun, but if the mechanics are too parasitic, you stifle the player's creativity.
Probably old news, but just wanted to add it for the sake of completeness :tongue:.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
I can't, or won't, go into too much detail on how I plan on printing this, because it could easily be used to create fake MtG cards, and spreading that info is (I believe) against the ToS. However, suffice it to say that for testing, I print a run of these at my local kinkos and sleeve them up with bulk commons (for the weight). For the final product, I have a method that produces pretty solid looking proxy cards.
And now, an update on this project -
As previously mentioned, there are many issues that make this set play poorly. I've got a new skeleton and am filling it in, and I'll start posting it up as soon as I near a workable version of it. As of now, I've only got the artifacts and about 3/4 of the white cards planned out.
There is one place where I would love to have some help. I've settled on five 2-color groups (ala RtR) for the first 180-card set, the other five for another, and then either shards, wedges, or both (and do four sets instead of three). For the first five, I'm missing a compelling mechanic. I'm stumped, completely - I know I want it to be a control-oriented mechanic, and I know I'd like for it to be enchantment heavy. Anyone want to contribute some design ideas?
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
Example since it is one drops that destroy enchantments try something like this.
Ether Armor 1UW
Enchantment - Aura U
Etherized(Opponents must pay 1 to target this spell.)
Enchanted creature gets a +1/+1 and "When this creature deals combat damage to an opponent put a +1/+1 counter on this creature and draw a card."
Ophelia Le Doux (R/B)
Creature - Vampire Assassin
Haste First Strike
1/1
Gold: 0
Inventory: Clothes
Abilities:
Traits: Speed
Experience: 6/20
Mana: R
Odula Besa (U/B)
Creature - Vampire Artificer
T: Target artifact creature gets your choice of -1/-0 or +1/+0 until end of turn.
1/1
Gold: 41
Inventory: Adventurer's Clothes, Basic Artificer Toolkit, 3 pounds of Basic metal.
Abilities: N/A
Current Goals:
Experience: 1/20
Mana: 2(U/B)(U/B)
I have enjoyed looking at this cube set. I always enjoy your work advent.
As soon as I saw Bestow I about jumped out of my chair - Bestow is exactly what I was looking for in the mechanic here.
alas, the mechanic problem is the least of the problems I have with this project, and I (for all intents and purposes) have abandoned the project as a whole. It's a fun idea, I think, and one I may revisit at a later time, but to make this truly playable and functional in the way I want it to be would require a complete redesign from square one, and that's something I just don't have in me at the moment.
I'm going to request the mods lock this thread, and I'll be moving on to a more traditional project that I've been working on and am actually pretty excited about. (you can always read updates about my projects on my blog, http://adventares.wordpress.com). In the meantime, thanks for the feedback on this set and sorry to abandon it, but I hope you'll check out my next project when it pops up on here - I think it has a lot more potential.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)