The next time target creature would be put into the graveyard from the battlefield this turn, instead exile it haunting target noncreature permanent. That creature gains “When the permanent haunted by this creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield return it from exile to the battlefield."
702.52a Haunt is a triggered ability. “Haunt” on a permanent means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, exile it haunting target creature.”
If it does not target a creature, then it is not haunt. And having it gain an ability that needs to continue through multiple zone changes is awkward at best.
Until end of turn, target creature gains "When this creature is put into a graveyard, exile it and choose target noncreature permanent. When that permanent is put into a graveyard, return this card to the field under its owner's control."
The next time target creature would be put into the graveyard from the battlefield this turn, instead exile it haunting target noncreature permanent. That creature gains "When the permanent haunted by this creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield return it from exile to the battlefield."
Please fix!
The next time target creature would be put into the graveyard from the battlefield this turn, instead exile it haunting target noncreature permanent. The exiled cardgains "When the haunted creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, return this card to the battlefield.
If it does not target a creature, then it is not haunt
Completely false. The triggered-ability portion of Haunt targets. The condition of being haunted does not, and does not even require the ability "haunt." The ability given to the card substitutes for the ability a Haunt card would have.
And having it gain an ability that needs to continue through multiple zone changes is awkward at best.
Which is why the "haunting" ability must be given to the card in exile.
Until end of turn, target creature gains "When this creature is put into a graveyard, exile it and choose target noncreature permanent. When that permanent is put into a graveyard, return this card to the field under its owner's control."
The red "This" in your wording can only refer to the object with the ability. That is the creature, and it cannot be referred to as a "card." Then, it wouldn't work, since the creature no longer exists.
Completely false. The triggered-ability portion of Haunt targets. The condition of being haunted does not, and does not even require the ability "haunt." The ability given to the card substitutes for the ability a Haunt card would have.
Haunt is a triggered ability that allows for a linked ability to work from exile.
702.52. Haunt
702.52a Haunt is a triggered ability. “Haunt” on a permanent means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, exile it haunting target creature.” “Haunt” on an instant or sorcery spell means “When this spell is put into a graveyard during its resolution, exile it haunting target creature.”
702.52b Cards that are in the exile zone as the result of a haunt ability “haunt” the creature targeted by that ability. The phrase “creature it haunts” refers to the object targeted by the haunt ability, regardless of whether or not that object is still a creature.
702.52c Triggered abilities of cards with haunt that refer to the haunted creature can trigger in the exile zone.
If there was no haunt ability to target anything, then it is not haunting anything.
Which is why the "haunting" ability must be given to the card in exile.
... okay fine, but it also has to actually gain "haunt" before it is exiled or it is not haunting a permanent.
Until end of turn, target creature [without haunt?] gains haunt and it haunts noncreature permanents instead of creatures. If it haunts a permanent this turn, the haunting card gains "When the permanent this card haunts is put into a graveyard, return this card to the battlefield under its owner's control."
I think that is more wordy and would only really fit in a set that already has other cards with haunt, but meh.
The red "This" in your wording can only refer to the object with the ability. That is the creature, and it cannot be referred to as a "card." Then, it wouldn't work, since the creature no longer exists.
Turn to Mist, et al. Once the creature leaves play it is no longer a creature; it is a card. And it is not necessarily even a creature card since the spell could target an animated noncreature permanent like Mutavault. The only time it doesn't work is if the spell targeted a token creature which has long since ceased to exist after leaving the field.
The next time target creature would be put into the graveyard from the battlefield this turn, instead exile it haunting target noncreature permanent. The exiled cardgains "When the haunted creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, return this card to the battlefield.
There is a slight problem with the timing of this wording because both the creature and the noncreature permanent are chosen as the spell is being cast, where as with haunt the haunted permanent is chosen when the creature with haunt is put into a graveyard.
Although, maybe I am making an unnecessary value judgment here... But if it is worded so that both targets are chosen as the spell is cast, then it should make that more explicitly clear, similar to Erratic Explosion.
Choose target creature and target noncreature permanent. The next time the chosen creature would be put into a graveyard this turn, exile it instead. When the chosen noncreature permanent is put into a graveyard, return the exiled creature card to the battlefield under its owner's control.
Choosing both targets at the same time, has two consequences that I see. If the noncreature permanent is destroyed before the creature, then the creature is still exiled but it will never return. If the creature and the noncreature permanent are both destroyed at the same time, like with Planar Cleansing, then the creature is automatically exiled and then the delayed trigger immediately returns it to the field. There is nothing particularly wrong with this, but it just does not work the way that haunt works.
I guess the first issue could be fixed by saying: "The next time the chosen creature would be put into a graveyard this turn, if the chosen noncreature permanent is still on the battlefield, exile the creature instead." Although I do not think that is needed.
Haunt is a triggered ability that allows for a linked ability to work from exile.
Haunt is a triggered ability that causes a card in exile to “haunt” an object. The linking of abilities is not involved. And nothing says another ability can’t do the same thing.
It happens because the wording of the Haunt trigger says it does, not because of the first sentence in 702.52b. That sentence’s purpose is to establish the language usage “creature it haunts,” not to define how it happens. It was worded as it is because WotC never expects to print an ability like this. YMTC is allowed some liberties in such situations: at least, you’ve said so.
Turn to Mist, et al. Once the creature leaves play it is no longer a creature; it is a card.
“THAT object” vs. “THIS object.” “THIS object” can only be the source of the ability. On Turn to Mist, “THAT object” is a card the effect has clearly identified in the exile zone, because it put it there.
is not necessarily even a creature card
Since it was referring to an object in play, it can’t use “card” and can use “creature” even if it isn’t one. See rule 112.5.
… but it also has to actually gain "haunt" before it is exiled or it is not haunting a permanent.
Nope. It only has to say it is haunting an object.
There is a slight problem with the timing of this wording because both the creature and the noncreature permanent are chosen as the spell is being cast.
That is a “feature” the OP seemed to want. It is a problem that could be cured by changing the replacement into a trigger.
Please fix!
Thanks,
MagicProfessor28
If it does not target a creature, then it is not haunt. And having it gain an ability that needs to continue through multiple zone changes is awkward at best.
Completely false. The triggered-ability portion of Haunt targets. The condition of being haunted does not, and does not even require the ability "haunt." The ability given to the card substitutes for the ability a Haunt card would have.
Which is why the "haunting" ability must be given to the card in exile.
The red "This" in your wording can only refer to the object with the ability. That is the creature, and it cannot be referred to as a "card." Then, it wouldn't work, since the creature no longer exists.
Haunt is a triggered ability that allows for a linked ability to work from exile.
702.52. Haunt
702.52a Haunt is a triggered ability. “Haunt” on a permanent means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, exile it haunting target creature.” “Haunt” on an instant or sorcery spell means “When this spell is put into a graveyard during its resolution, exile it haunting target creature.”
702.52b Cards that are in the exile zone as the result of a haunt ability “haunt” the creature targeted by that ability. The phrase “creature it haunts” refers to the object targeted by the haunt ability, regardless of whether or not that object is still a creature.
702.52c Triggered abilities of cards with haunt that refer to the haunted creature can trigger in the exile zone.
If there was no haunt ability to target anything, then it is not haunting anything.
... okay fine, but it also has to actually gain "haunt" before it is exiled or it is not haunting a permanent.
I think that is more wordy and would only really fit in a set that already has other cards with haunt, but meh.
Turn to Mist, et al. Once the creature leaves play it is no longer a creature; it is a card. And it is not necessarily even a creature card since the spell could target an animated noncreature permanent like Mutavault. The only time it doesn't work is if the spell targeted a token creature which has long since ceased to exist after leaving the field.
There is a slight problem with the timing of this wording because both the creature and the noncreature permanent are chosen as the spell is being cast, where as with haunt the haunted permanent is chosen when the creature with haunt is put into a graveyard.
Although, maybe I am making an unnecessary value judgment here... But if it is worded so that both targets are chosen as the spell is cast, then it should make that more explicitly clear, similar to Erratic Explosion.
Choosing both targets at the same time, has two consequences that I see. If the noncreature permanent is destroyed before the creature, then the creature is still exiled but it will never return. If the creature and the noncreature permanent are both destroyed at the same time, like with Planar Cleansing, then the creature is automatically exiled and then the delayed trigger immediately returns it to the field. There is nothing particularly wrong with this, but it just does not work the way that haunt works.
I guess the first issue could be fixed by saying: "The next time the chosen creature would be put into a graveyard this turn, if the chosen noncreature permanent is still on the battlefield, exile the creature instead." Although I do not think that is needed.
Haunt is a triggered ability that causes a card in exile to “haunt” an object. The linking of abilities is not involved. And nothing says another ability can’t do the same thing.
It happens because the wording of the Haunt trigger says it does, not because of the first sentence in 702.52b. That sentence’s purpose is to establish the language usage “creature it haunts,” not to define how it happens. It was worded as it is because WotC never expects to print an ability like this. YMTC is allowed some liberties in such situations: at least, you’ve said so.
“THAT object” vs. “THIS object.” “THIS object” can only be the source of the ability. On Turn to Mist, “THAT object” is a card the effect has clearly identified in the exile zone, because it put it there.
Since it was referring to an object in play, it can’t use “card” and can use “creature” even if it isn’t one. See rule 112.5.
Nope. It only has to say it is haunting an object.
That is a “feature” the OP seemed to want. It is a problem that could be cured by changing the replacement into a trigger.
Currently, it can't. But with a little rules tweaking...