Hey, I'm doing a set, but I'm not quite ready to show off the cards yet (as the set structure has no been quite worked out yet), but I do have a question with this card:
Craaline, Arachnid Arbiter 1RGW
Legendary Creature- Spider Scorpion Soldier
Each creature assigns combat damage equal to its toughness rather than its power.
Each creature is assigned damage to its power rather than its toughness.
3/3
Does this make sense? What I'm trying to get is for the ability to work like this: creatures that have their power higher than their toughness are made so that their toughness is now the same as the power and vice versa so that the lower power will be raised to be the same as the toughness. But that's really complicated to work out, so I need help with that.
Plus: is the costing about right? How about an ability besides this?
Also, flavorwise: the spiders in this set are generally higher toughness and the scorpions are generally higher power. The two groups are allies (they are both arachnids) so this legend is a "leader" of both tribes. Spider Scorpion, so she's literally part of both tribes. I'm so clever...
You could always aim for less clever and more works...
"Switch each creature's power and toughness."
Wording should actually work, since that's what Mannichi does until end of turn. May need to add a qualifier to clarify the ability, like "As long as ~ is in play, switch each creature's power and toughness."
Depends on whether you want to abuse it with something like Meekstone. Also, -1/-1 still kills things based on toughness with the original wording.
Your wording should work fine, but switching power and toughness is almost the same and much simpler.
I don't actually think his wording does work. At least, not without some extensive revamping. It doesn't matter what you assign damage "to." A creature goes to the graveyard as a state based effect when the total damage assigned to it is equal to or greater than its toughness. I mean, you could edit that game rule on the card, but then it loses the symmetry of the abilities since it would not be phrased at all similar. =/
EDIT: Just saw the clarification.
"Each creature with power less than its toughness becomes X/X, where X is that creature's toughness.
Each creature with toughness less than its power becomes X/X, where X is that creature's power."
"Each creature is X/X, where X is that creature's power or that creature's toughness, whichever is greater."
Does this work? I think Destrius's wording does work as intended, but I'm not sure if mine does as well, though it would be more concise.
The original wording does not work because damage is not assigned to a creature's toughness, it's assigned to the creature. The wording would have to alter the SBE rule that kills creatures with lethal damage, and that would end up being very wordy. It would have to be something like "Creatures are put into their owner's graveyard if they have been dealt damage greater than or equal to their power rather than their toughness. This is a state-based effect." Or something equally confusing.
Your wording is much simpler, but I think it still needs a little tweaking. mainly just the redundant 'that creature's' needs to go:
Each creature is X/X, where X is that creature's power or toughness, whichever is greater.
I'm pretty certain that does work, but an alternate (and slightly wordier) wording would be this:
Each creature's power and toughness is X, where X is that creature's power or toughness, whichever is greater.
One of those two (if not both) is certain to be functionally correct, and is much less confusing than the original wording.
Ah, thanks. Oh, but I do have a question so that I can get my card interactions right. When is this applied in terms of layers? Is it after P/T reducing/increasing effects?
418.5a The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order:
(1) copy effects (see rule 503, "Copying Objects");
(2) control-changing effects;
(3) text-changing effects;
(4) type-changing effects (which includes effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype);
(5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness;
and (6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects.
Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order:
(6a) effects from characteristic-defining abilities;
(6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e;
(6c) changes from counters;
(6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value;
and (6e) effects that switch a creature's power and toughness. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order.
Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b-418.5g).
I've added some carriage returns to make it a bit more readable. The ability in question changes P/T, so it falls in Layer 6. It is not a characteristing-defining ability, it is not a change from counters, it does set P/T to a specific value, and it does not switch P/T. So it does not fall in 6a, 6c, 6d, or 6e, so it falls under 6b.
Craaline, Arachnid Arbiter 1RGW
Legendary Creature- Spider Scorpion Soldier
Each creature assigns combat damage equal to its toughness rather than its power.
Each creature is assigned damage to its power rather than its toughness.
3/3
Does this make sense? What I'm trying to get is for the ability to work like this: creatures that have their power higher than their toughness are made so that their toughness is now the same as the power and vice versa so that the lower power will be raised to be the same as the toughness. But that's really complicated to work out, so I need help with that.
Plus: is the costing about right? How about an ability besides this?
Also, flavorwise: the spiders in this set are generally higher toughness and the scorpions are generally higher power. The two groups are allies (they are both arachnids) so this legend is a "leader" of both tribes. Spider Scorpion, so she's literally part of both tribes. I'm so clever...
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"Switch each creature's power and toughness."
Wording should actually work, since that's what Mannichi does until end of turn. May need to add a qualifier to clarify the ability, like "As long as ~ is in play, switch each creature's power and toughness."
Your wording should work fine, but switching power and toughness is almost the same and much simpler.
Switching power and toughness results in something else entirely: 2/1 creatures become 1/2 creatures, which is NOT what I want.
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Creating a fantasy epic:Come join us!
I don't actually think his wording does work. At least, not without some extensive revamping. It doesn't matter what you assign damage "to." A creature goes to the graveyard as a state based effect when the total damage assigned to it is equal to or greater than its toughness. I mean, you could edit that game rule on the card, but then it loses the symmetry of the abilities since it would not be phrased at all similar. =/
EDIT: Just saw the clarification.
"Each creature with power less than its toughness becomes X/X, where X is that creature's toughness.
Each creature with toughness less than its power becomes X/X, where X is that creature's power."
That looks vaguely like it works.
Does this work? I think Destrius's wording does work as intended, but I'm not sure if mine does as well, though it would be more concise.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Any additional comments on power level, costing, abilities?
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The original wording does not work because damage is not assigned to a creature's toughness, it's assigned to the creature. The wording would have to alter the SBE rule that kills creatures with lethal damage, and that would end up being very wordy. It would have to be something like "Creatures are put into their owner's graveyard if they have been dealt damage greater than or equal to their power rather than their toughness. This is a state-based effect." Or something equally confusing.
Your wording is much simpler, but I think it still needs a little tweaking. mainly just the redundant 'that creature's' needs to go:
Each creature is X/X, where X is that creature's power or toughness, whichever is greater.
I'm pretty certain that does work, but an alternate (and slightly wordier) wording would be this:
Each creature's power and toughness is X, where X is that creature's power or toughness, whichever is greater.
One of those two (if not both) is certain to be functionally correct, and is much less confusing than the original wording.
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I've added some carriage returns to make it a bit more readable. The ability in question changes P/T, so it falls in Layer 6. It is not a characteristing-defining ability, it is not a change from counters, it does set P/T to a specific value, and it does not switch P/T. So it does not fall in 6a, 6c, 6d, or 6e, so it falls under 6b.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win