It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
This card is undercosted by at least 2. This is green. Green shouldn't be able to 'destroy target permanent'. When it used to be able to, back in the day, it was called desert twister, and cost 4gg. Seeing as this is worse than twister in at least two ways (as an aura it can be answered, and it gives them a mana) I could possibly (in my wildest dreams) see it at 3gg. But realisticly, destroy target permanent is was stronger now that it was back in twisters day, thanks to creatures not being terrible now, and also, you know, planeswalkers. So this should cost at least 6.
If it were ever released at cmc3, it would have to be GGG. And even there it would be pretty OP.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a great guy if you don't mind the swearing"
"If I meant everything I said, I'd be a total *******"
Humour:
Quote from Conical Object »
In Soviet Russia, deck play you!
Quote from Me »
I think that that undefined would be the perfect power for the flying spaghetti monster.
Player A: "I hit you for an undefined amount of damage."
Player B: "I shock FSM."
Player A: "Does it do undefined damage?"
Player B: "No."
Player A: "Then it doesn't die. Take your damage *****!"
Player B: "How?"
"Is a land with".....should be erratted to say "is a basic land"
Becoming a forest doesn't make it basic. There are many non-basic forests. We discussed actually having the card make it a basic forest, but it was decided against since we felt making something basic shouldn't really happen. It goes against the idea of what a "basic" land is, and has very few interactions in the first place. (by comparison, Spreading Seas, Blood Moon, etc. don't say basic.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
As previously discussed, this is way overpowered for green and out of flavor. Some of these YMTC cards really emphasize the point that the community isn't necessarily going to be "right" when designing a card. This would never see print, as it can take out creatures.
If it simply said "enchant noncreature permanent" it would be much more palatable. Green being able to take out lands, artifacts, and enchantments is in flavor. However, it'd be able to hit planeswalkers then as well. But that's less egregious than green spells taking out creatures. And being able to take out planeswalkers would come up much less often than creatures, as creatures see more play in both limited and constructed, so it might be at least a little justifiable at that point.
We had a very length discussion about this, but 1GG ended up winning. Personally I feel 3G would have been a more reasonable cost for such an out-of-pie effect.
I like 2GG better. Isn't this desert twister and give opp a forest?
Utility all purpose removal (neutralizing planeswalkers, creatures, specialized lands, enchantments, artifacts, splash lands, etc. ) seems underpriced for 3 mana in green.
And it's not STRICTLY worse than Oblivion ring, since it can neutralize overpowered special lands, splash color lands, as well as man-lands.
I think this is easily the best and most interesting YMTC.
When I first saw it, I thought it was only lands, and thought it should be G or 1G. After seeing that it hits everything, my thought was that it should be 1G or 2G. After seeing everyone whine about it being underpriced, I think 1GG is fine, but possibly still a little steep.
Giving your opponent a land is actually a huge drawback.
Path to Exile is only played because it's super-permanent removal for W (unconditional, and at instant speed). When you are trying to run more removal than your opponent has threats, it's fine to speed up some of their biggest and most impressive threats.
When you're trying to 'go bigger' and just need an emergency spell to take care of the occasional too-efficient threat, making all of their future threats a mana cheaper is a gigantic drawback. I don't think 1GG make-it-a-Forest would see play outside of (possibly) Enchantress variants. 1GG becomes a cheap cost if there's a lot of other efficient green removal, and you can run a mono-green (or heavy green) control deck. I don't think that will ever happen, though, which changes the way the card can be used and makes mana drawback severe enough to justify a low cost.
In other words, this card is exciting, has a reasonable power level, and sparks some degree of debate. Those are all things that make a card a key preview and a power uncommon (or even rare).
Pretty solid I dare say. Although part of me thinks that targeting any permanent rather than just lands is a bit much, but I would greatly enjoy seeing someone use this on an Emrakul
Pretty solid I dare say. Although part of me thinks that targeting any permanent rather than just lands is a bit much, but I would greatly enjoy seeing someone use this on an Emrakul
Because Take Root is an aura (unlike oblivion ring) it must have a target when you cast it. Since it's still a spell at that point, you unfortunately wouldn't be able to target emrakul.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Love the art! Very well done! I don't feel this card would ever see play ever but its a neat idea. Great work everyone!
3 mana to take out any permanent on the board? And gives green a way to deal with creatures that it otherwise doesn't have normally? And somehow that would be unplayable?
Because Take Root is an aura (unlike oblivion ring) it must have a target when you cast it. Since it's still a spell at that point, you unfortunately wouldn't be able to target emrakul.
oh right :/ well fudge, I guess I got ahead of myself.
oh right :/ well fudge, I guess I got ahead of myself.
Excepting, of course, if by Sun Titan or some other recursion effect, you brought it back from your graveyard and decided to enchant Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, unless that falls under CR 702.15c, i suppose it would depend on the ruling, but I doubt it would, since the effect of the aura negates the protection ability.
Actually it works just fine. We did our reseach, and adding a basic land type removes all other abilities unless otherwise stated. That's why blood moon works the way it does.
EDIT: more specifically, comp. rule 305.7 will help you here.
Wrong. 305.7 deals with lands changing types, not with permanents becoming land.
What you are actually looking for is Soul Sculptor, which is very simular to this and shows you must explicitly remove all abilities.
305.7. If an effect sets a land's subtype to one or more of the basic land types, the land no longer has its old land type. It loses all abilities generated from its rules text and its old land types, and it gains the appropriate mana ability for each new basic land type. Note that this doesn't remove any abilities that were granted to the land by other effects. Setting a land's subtype doesn't add or remove any card types (such as creature) or supertypes (such as basic, legendary, and snow) the land may have. If a land gains one or more land types in addition to its own, it keeps its land types and rules text, and it gains the new land types and mana abilities.
Does this change a land's subtype into a basic land type? NO.
Therefor, 305.7 is not what you are looking for.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
It doesn't make it a land and then changes it to a Forest, cause that would actually work. This changes something (for example, a creature) into a Forest directly. Rule 305.7 is about things that are already lands changing into different lands.
I don't see anything in rule 305.7 about it having to change the land's subtype. 305.7 says that an effect has to set the land's subtype, and in this case we've got a static effect that is constantly setting the subtype to Forest while simultaneously setting the type to Land.
We could keep going back and forth on this, but since there's no card that I know of that has this same effect i don't think we're going to find a definitive answer. (If you know of one, please post it.)
If we assume you're right, the rules changes involved in making this card work are so minimal that it's pretty much irrelevant. Creating new and interesting effects always requires a slight bending of the rules, and these small changes happen with almost every set release anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Have any of these "you make the cards" from anywhere ever actually become an actual magic card at a later time, word for word or, essentially the same thing but with a different name?
Now it has! This card now exists as Song of the Dryads from Commander 2014. Nice!
I'd also like to point out that the card has exactly the same wording (plus colorless), so good work everyone! Looks like we were right after all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Glad im not the only one who thought of this thread when that commander card was released. I wonder if someone at Wizards stole this idea from here, or they just independently came up with it themselves. This would have been a great opportunity for a "designed by the magic community" card, like the ones that they did for m15.
I like the name Take Root better. It's a fairly intuitive card, not a stretch that they'd come up with the same thing. But I do wonder if they thought about this, or picked the name 'Song of the Dryads' because we had already taken a good name. But yes, I too remembered this card! Go us!
WotC is prohibited from looking at unsolicited card ideas (like the ones we make here). That's not to say that they don't, but it's far more likely they came up with the same idea as us independently.
And yes, I also think Take Root is a much more evocative name.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Not strictly worse... this hits lands
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Very true. I was wrong, though I believe the point still stands.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
If it were ever released at cmc3, it would have to be GGG. And even there it would be pretty OP.
Humour:
Becoming a forest doesn't make it basic. There are many non-basic forests. We discussed actually having the card make it a basic forest, but it was decided against since we felt making something basic shouldn't really happen. It goes against the idea of what a "basic" land is, and has very few interactions in the first place. (by comparison, Spreading Seas, Blood Moon, etc. don't say basic.)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
If it simply said "enchant noncreature permanent" it would be much more palatable. Green being able to take out lands, artifacts, and enchantments is in flavor. However, it'd be able to hit planeswalkers then as well. But that's less egregious than green spells taking out creatures. And being able to take out planeswalkers would come up much less often than creatures, as creatures see more play in both limited and constructed, so it might be at least a little justifiable at that point.
Utility all purpose removal (neutralizing planeswalkers, creatures, specialized lands, enchantments, artifacts, splash lands, etc. ) seems underpriced for 3 mana in green.
And it's not STRICTLY worse than Oblivion ring, since it can neutralize overpowered special lands, splash color lands, as well as man-lands.
When I first saw it, I thought it was only lands, and thought it should be G or 1G. After seeing that it hits everything, my thought was that it should be 1G or 2G. After seeing everyone whine about it being underpriced, I think 1GG is fine, but possibly still a little steep.
Giving your opponent a land is actually a huge drawback.
Path to Exile is only played because it's super-permanent removal for W (unconditional, and at instant speed). When you are trying to run more removal than your opponent has threats, it's fine to speed up some of their biggest and most impressive threats.
When you're trying to 'go bigger' and just need an emergency spell to take care of the occasional too-efficient threat, making all of their future threats a mana cheaper is a gigantic drawback. I don't think 1GG make-it-a-Forest would see play outside of (possibly) Enchantress variants. 1GG becomes a cheap cost if there's a lot of other efficient green removal, and you can run a mono-green (or heavy green) control deck. I don't think that will ever happen, though, which changes the way the card can be used and makes mana drawback severe enough to justify a low cost.
In other words, this card is exciting, has a reasonable power level, and sparks some degree of debate. Those are all things that make a card a key preview and a power uncommon (or even rare).
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Because Take Root is an aura (unlike oblivion ring) it must have a target when you cast it. Since it's still a spell at that point, you unfortunately wouldn't be able to target emrakul.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
3 mana to take out any permanent on the board? And gives green a way to deal with creatures that it otherwise doesn't have normally? And somehow that would be unplayable?
<scratches head>
oh right :/ well fudge, I guess I got ahead of myself.
Excepting, of course, if by Sun Titan or some other recursion effect, you brought it back from your graveyard and decided to enchant Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, unless that falls under CR 702.15c, i suppose it would depend on the ruling, but I doubt it would, since the effect of the aura negates the protection ability.
Wrong. 305.7 deals with lands changing types, not with permanents becoming land.
What you are actually looking for is Soul Sculptor, which is very simular to this and shows you must explicitly remove all abilities.
305.7. If an effect sets a land's subtype to one or more of the basic land types, the land no longer has its old land type. It loses all abilities generated from its rules text and its old land types, and it gains the appropriate mana ability for each new basic land type. Note that this doesn't remove any abilities that were granted to the land by other effects. Setting a land's subtype doesn't add or remove any card types (such as creature) or supertypes (such as basic, legendary, and snow) the land may have. If a land gains one or more land types in addition to its own, it keeps its land types and rules text, and it gains the new land types and mana abilities.
Does this change a land's subtype into a basic land type? NO.
Therefor, 305.7 is not what you are looking for.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
We could keep going back and forth on this, but since there's no card that I know of that has this same effect i don't think we're going to find a definitive answer. (If you know of one, please post it.)
If we assume you're right, the rules changes involved in making this card work are so minimal that it's pretty much irrelevant. Creating new and interesting effects always requires a slight bending of the rules, and these small changes happen with almost every set release anyway.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Now it has! This card now exists as Song of the Dryads from Commander 2014. Nice!
I'd also like to point out that the card has exactly the same wording (plus colorless), so good work everyone! Looks like we were right after all.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
And yes, I also think Take Root is a much more evocative name.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing