1. It's too good. It would not be printed with this power level. So, it's just a poor design.
2. Frog's don't fly man....
Frogs jump and these ones jump for a long time.
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For an extra turn giving, cant be countered, protection from spells, opponent sacs 6 permanents, flying 15/15! Thats wayto expensive who would pay that?! As for me I would only pay .
Even though I wasn't involved in the Frog decision and don't particularly support it, I will provide the precedent: Whiptongue Frog. Plus Frog Tongue and Anurid Swarmsnapper have reach, which is the bad half of flying.
Can someone please explain to me what makes the second ability so good? And I don't mean just good, I understand why its good, I just don't understand why its so amazingly overpowered. Especially compared to the ultimate.
Also, why so much flying frog hate?
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
First ability is the best manland to be printed yet. (free to activate with haste and evasion? GTFO.)
And frogs do jump. This ability technically is jump on a 3/3 land.
Last ability is fail. What happened to Living lands and the like?
much better synergy and finisher. And it should cost 7.
Or atleast a Plow Under variant. Lands to the ToL. making an opp reset and draw all the lands back isnt snapped.
As is, this should've costed 5cmc. it's a multicolor BSA respectively.
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~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Can someone please explain to me what makes the second ability so good? And I don't mean just good, I understand why its good, I just don't understand why its so amazingly overpowered. Especially compared to the ultimate.
It's arguably strictly better than "draw a card", which is what makes Jace a really good card drawing engine. Drawing a card and accelerating while making the walker stronger/closer to the ultimate is just really freaking good. Compare this to Overbeing of Myth, the closest thing printed to a straight-up extra card every turn that's also a creature threat. The cost is 1 CMC more and much harder to cast, it's way easier to deal with, and is generally weaker in every way.
So yeah, this should have been CMC 5 and probably have had a starting loyalty of 3 - OR - stayed the same with the second ability as a -1. In fact, I'll go ahead and say that the costs I suggested are probably exactly in line with what everyone is saying after the fact they should have been.
Moral of the story: listen to M_E and I, people. We're like Simon and Randy.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
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This was a clear case of people voting for the strongest offering among the options. Just shows we need to executive cut to either some balanced options or just straight to the right cost, although there was more to consider with a planeswalker than usually. Anyway, we know for next time.
Yes, there are plenty of negative things to be said about the design of this card. Most of the people saying them did not vote or participate in the creation of the card in any way. This is the community's creation, so if you think it could be better, then be a part of the community creating it.
I think that the card turned out reasonably well considering how difficult it is to design a planeswalker in the first place, and that the process of suggestion/voting isn't particularly conducive to the wholistic approach you really need to take with planeswalkers.
I don't mean to insult anyone, and there parts of the card i really like. The theme, the colors, the art, are all great! it's just it's too good.
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Arrest this man he talks in math
The Tea Party is the working class fighting against the man fighting for the working class.
It's called EDH kids, there is no such thing as commander.
This is an OP planeswalker.
Last ability is fail. What happened to Living lands and the like?
much better synergy and finisher. And it should cost 7.
Earthquake for one happened in standard, damnation and wrath happened in extended. It's surprisingly bad considering how good mass removal can be, these days.
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Decks:
OLD Extended Decks (not that super-standard crap):
:symw::symb::symr:Oros Assault:symw::symb::symr:
:symr::symg::symw:Modded Rubin's Zoo (Retired):symr::symg::symw:
Standard (Casual):
:symg::symr::symb:Eldrazi Spawn/Coat of Arms combo:symg::symr::symb:
I agree with all the compliments this card received. Nice flavor, represents a beautiful part of the color pie, interesting art (wondering where it came from actually).
It's just for card of the month, and considering most people involved in this event are somewhat experienced players, I expected a better design. Simply said.
In respect to not taking part of this months design, i cant say much now because damage is already done, but it will say:
On the suggestions page, what were people thinking? and wasn't there any deliberation about skill balance and what would make it to poll's or not?
Earthquake for one happened in standard, damnation and wrath happened in extended. It's surprisingly bad considering how good mass removal can be, these days.
I'm confused, is the currently played board removal at instant speed? Because i could've sworn they all say Sorcery... hmmm.
*ponder* (thinks of the three points he could use and settles for the most effective one.)
Considering the lands didnt enter play the same turn you activated the ability, doesn't it technically mean they can attack? am i reading manlands wrong? whats the point of this pw's first ability then?
...?
@Zeromd:
Forestwalk, islandwalk 3/3 wouldn't have been half bad.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
^ more of said experienced players needed to participate in the polling. There were of course balance discussions, and the consensus of those discussions were usually not the actual outcome of the poll, probably because more people look at the options and fire from the hip on what they like.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I think he's pretty good. His second power is amazing, but i think Jace 2.0 gives much better card quality as well as some knowledge. Also, lets not forget that he is Green Blue, an uncomman mana combo. He should be slightly better than Jace or Elspeth because he's the same cost but in an unfavorable mana combo.
Also, if jump makes creatures fly, why shouldn't frogs fly? They jump...duh.
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I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs." -Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
I'm always a fan of these things. To make it less OP, the second ability should be more like Scrying Sheets' ability, but for lands. And oh yeah, -1 for sure.
I loveeeee this card. Frogs are one of my favorite, if not favorite creature type in Magic. It's probably at least a little overpowered because of the crazy acceleration. It makes me really wish this card were actually real (with a mana tacked on probably).
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
Just wondering...
Do any of you guys actually play with these hommade cards in casual games? I always wondered how my playing buddies would react to me introducing a homemade card in a game. And if you do play with them, how do you print them out (what weight of cardstock do you printo n, etc.)
secondly, Where do you guys get the art templates to create cards on? I've been scouring the foums for them, but I can't find them. I had some old 10th Ed .jpg templates I had been using for a middle school MTG class I taught (where the kids could design their own custom cards), but my computer died with my template son it before I could back them up.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Just wondering...
Do any of you guys actually play with these hommade cards in casual games? I always wondered how my playing buddies would react to me introducing a homemade card in a game.
Way back when my friends and I had some fun with homemade cards. Sometimes people will make custom sets and play with them in Magic Workstation (Alacar's Academy block springs to mind). Normally if you're going to introduce your own designs, you need to agree upon it beforehand. Maybe even set up a special playdate to try out homemade cards. If you just make a card and slap it into your deck I wouldn't expect someone you're playing with to respond well. Obviously, though, you know your friends better than any of us can.
And if you do play with them, how do you print them out (what weight of cardstock do you printo n, etc.)
It's more or less impossible to replicate WotC's card stock (for good reason). I suggest just printing on plain paper and putting them in sleeves using basic lands as a backing.
secondly, Where do you guys get the art templates to create cards on?
The artwork forum has all sorts of links to websites that host fantasy artists. In the software section you'll find an official thread for MSE (Magic Set Editor) which is an easy-to-use way of putting text and art into a template and making a realistic picture.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
Really flavorful card. I like it. I feel as though it makes sense in its power, because then people can use spot removal on your lands and own you in the face. Maybe not flying, but shroud on those froggies? But I dunno. Also, he is 2 color, making him harder to cast (theoretically). He's also entirely centered on lands, making him kinda niche. That -8 is something Green has seen before (Gilt-Leaf Archdruid).
That second ability is pretty sick, compare it to Jace v1 -1 to draw a card..
Ahem. Look at Sorin Markov's first ability compared to Chandra Nalaar's first ability. Planeswalker abilities can't exactly be compared by cost the way spells can. You have to look at the planeswalker as a whole and balance each of its abilities with its starting loyalty. That said, the second ability should have probably been 0 or -1 (or we could have gone with what I had suggested, revealing the card and putting it in your hand if it were a land... :p)
The only other thing I would change about this card is cost it at 3GU because 4 CMC is a little too strong, imo. And while the ultimate may not have much synergy with its first two abilities, I still think it's very flavorful for a 'walker.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Is it just me, or did Elspeth just get outclassed?
Who's crying Elspeth? What happened to Ajani? But they can't really be compared (any of them) I like this guy, except the draw cards part. You see, Jace does -1 to draw a card, this guy says+1 and even puts it onto the batlefield if it's a land. The only drawback is that your opp knows what it is. Does it count that much? (I'm talking Beleren, not mind sculptor)
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So here I am
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
Frogs jump and these ones jump for a long time.
FROGS DONT FLY.
i think that the 2nd ability is rediculously over powered. it would have been more balanced if the second ability was a -1 ability
Ludvic test subject.dek (top 8 at GPT)
Necrotic ooze
Werewolves
Modern
Esper Venser
Legacy
GW aggro- in the making.
Also, why so much flying frog hate?
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
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A Good Place to Start Designing
Insane card advantage on second ability.
First ability is the best manland to be printed yet. (free to activate with haste and evasion? GTFO.)
And frogs do jump. This ability technically is jump on a 3/3 land.
Last ability is fail. What happened to Living lands and the like?
much better synergy and finisher. And it should cost 7.
Or atleast a Plow Under variant. Lands to the ToL. making an opp reset and draw all the lands back isnt snapped.
As is, this should've costed 5cmc. it's a multicolor BSA respectively.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
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It's arguably strictly better than "draw a card", which is what makes Jace a really good card drawing engine. Drawing a card and accelerating while making the walker stronger/closer to the ultimate is just really freaking good. Compare this to Overbeing of Myth, the closest thing printed to a straight-up extra card every turn that's also a creature threat. The cost is 1 CMC more and much harder to cast, it's way easier to deal with, and is generally weaker in every way.
So yeah, this should have been CMC 5 and probably have had a starting loyalty of 3 - OR - stayed the same with the second ability as a -1. In fact, I'll go ahead and say that the costs I suggested are probably exactly in line with what everyone is saying after the fact they should have been.
Moral of the story: listen to M_E and I, people. We're like Simon and Randy.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
This was a clear case of people voting for the strongest offering among the options. Just shows we need to executive cut to either some balanced options or just straight to the right cost, although there was more to consider with a planeswalker than usually. Anyway, we know for next time.
I don't mean to insult anyone, and there parts of the card i really like. The theme, the colors, the art, are all great! it's just it's too good.
:symw::symb::symr:Oros Assault:symw::symb::symr:
:symr::symg::symw:Modded Rubin's Zoo (Retired):symr::symg::symw:
Standard (Casual):
:symg::symr::symb:Eldrazi Spawn/Coat of Arms combo:symg::symr::symb:
EDH:
:symb::symg::symw:Doran (Retired):symb::symg::symw:
:symr::symw:Brion Stoutarm:symr::symw:
Legacy:
:symb::symu::symg::symw:Treefolk:symb::symu::symg::symw:
It's just for card of the month, and considering most people involved in this event are somewhat experienced players, I expected a better design. Simply said.
In respect to not taking part of this months design, i cant say much now because damage is already done, but it will say:
On the suggestions page, what were people thinking? and wasn't there any deliberation about skill balance and what would make it to poll's or not?
I'm confused, is the currently played board removal at instant speed? Because i could've sworn they all say Sorcery... hmmm.
*ponder* (thinks of the three points he could use and settles for the most effective one.)
Considering the lands didnt enter play the same turn you activated the ability, doesn't it technically mean they can attack? am i reading manlands wrong? whats the point of this pw's first ability then?
...?
@Zeromd:
Forestwalk, islandwalk 3/3 wouldn't have been half bad.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Also, if jump makes creatures fly, why shouldn't frogs fly? They jump...duh.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
Otherwise, cool design!
Do any of you guys actually play with these hommade cards in casual games? I always wondered how my playing buddies would react to me introducing a homemade card in a game. And if you do play with them, how do you print them out (what weight of cardstock do you printo n, etc.)
secondly, Where do you guys get the art templates to create cards on? I've been scouring the foums for them, but I can't find them. I had some old 10th Ed .jpg templates I had been using for a middle school MTG class I taught (where the kids could design their own custom cards), but my computer died with my template son it before I could back them up.
Click the pic for more info.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Way back when my friends and I had some fun with homemade cards. Sometimes people will make custom sets and play with them in Magic Workstation (Alacar's Academy block springs to mind). Normally if you're going to introduce your own designs, you need to agree upon it beforehand. Maybe even set up a special playdate to try out homemade cards. If you just make a card and slap it into your deck I wouldn't expect someone you're playing with to respond well. Obviously, though, you know your friends better than any of us can.
It's more or less impossible to replicate WotC's card stock (for good reason). I suggest just printing on plain paper and putting them in sleeves using basic lands as a backing.
The artwork forum has all sorts of links to websites that host fantasy artists. In the software section you'll find an official thread for MSE (Magic Set Editor) which is an easy-to-use way of putting text and art into a template and making a realistic picture.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Click the pic for more info.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Ahem. Look at Sorin Markov's first ability compared to Chandra Nalaar's first ability. Planeswalker abilities can't exactly be compared by cost the way spells can. You have to look at the planeswalker as a whole and balance each of its abilities with its starting loyalty. That said, the second ability should have probably been 0 or -1 (or we could have gone with what I had suggested, revealing the card and putting it in your hand if it were a land... :p)
The only other thing I would change about this card is cost it at 3GU because 4 CMC is a little too strong, imo. And while the ultimate may not have much synergy with its first two abilities, I still think it's very flavorful for a 'walker.
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Who's crying Elspeth? What happened to Ajani? But they can't really be compared (any of them) I like this guy, except the draw cards part. You see, Jace does -1 to draw a card, this guy says+1 and even puts it onto the batlefield if it's a land. The only drawback is that your opp knows what it is. Does it count that much? (I'm talking Beleren, not mind sculptor)
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
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