What I don't get is that Bolas have had three opportunities to nightkill and from my perspective just chosen not to exercise two of them (the only possible exception being if is Bolas, in which case Team Bolas at least attempted to trap in the third design round).
I mean, if their plan is to never attempt the trap quest themselves, despite getting a double advantage from it (perfect flavor knowledge beforehand AND much easier to spring on a Guildpact player), then... I guess they're doing that?
First, to answer why we shouldn't speak between rounds - during that time, WE have the power, not Bolas. We know quests, they need to figure them out. Every word we say then may give them some info, if not about what the quests are about, then about the strategy for the next round. "We received a card from this person, they may have a hunch on us, we need to use their card and blame them." I don't know how big the effect may be, probably not that big, but I don't think we should give them this opportunity. Enough time to talk during day.
I feel bad about the results of the last round. I thought that M_J was Bolas from the first round, and was happy that everyone else noticed it eventually - but then it turned out to be wrong. Ouch. Sorry about that.
From my perspective, two players look most like Bolas - zdtsd and void.
I don't think anyone here doubts why I think this way about zdtsd. His designs were repeatedly weird (Orzhov will'o'wisp? RLY?), and not very convincing.
I don't understand, though, why nobody mentioned void yet. His two first rounds were as long, kitchensinky and general as humanly possible. This would give him more chances that some part of the card would be fitting to the quest, and that part may be later enlarged by directing flavor text at it. Notice the first round "name a card. ANY card.", and second round basically everything. In the third round, sure, he had a very specific antiblue mechanic - but M_J (Guildpact) had it as well. It's scary to me he is the one with Cantripmancer driving this game.
The problem with those two being Bolas is a very serious one - this round. They both very noticeably designed for their quests, zdtsd naming a trap and void being the only one with an artifact. I feel they cannot be both Bolas at the same time. That means that one of the blue players is Bolas, and I don't get that vibe from any of them. That's scary, as that means you can be such a good Bolas for such a long time.
If I had to guess right now who of them is Bolas, I would point to Subject16. His designs were the most strange for their quests of this group, and the unclear quest last round is at least suspicious. I don't feel that certain about that, though, and definitely won't vote for him this round.
This game makes me anxious now, and I don't know if it's a bug or a feature
Alright, easy answer: Look at what I did during the first voting round.
It looked like Raptorchan was on the chopping block, and since he was one of the people I got the strongest Guildpact tells from, I tried to turn it around. I then proceeded to vote for BlazingRagnarok.
Raptorchan is now dead and known to be Guildpact. We exiled BR in the first round and he was known to be Bolas.
What the hell kind of a play is that exactly, assuming I'm Bolas?
Misdirecting one? To gain trust? That was a minor miracle all those people changed their minds, and obviously you would have to keep the appearances when they did.
Man, I'd like you to be guildpact, but your designs for first three rounds were too sneaky for me. For now, I feel zdtsd is more Bolasy than you, and as I say, you can't be both Bolas. I wanted to let everyone know what I think, though, because just assuming you are guildpact may potentially doom this game.
On the MELO situation, what happens if noone votes, so everyone votes themselves; or there is otherwise a draw?
I'm heavily suspicious of Simic. This is a card that "traps" in the sense of "engulfing" but doesn't trap in the sense of, well, defending a place by putting in an alarm or snare of some sort.
The quest says nothing about placing an alarm or a snare, only to create something that traps (either in a specific location or within an object).
I haven't had the time to go over the designs yet so bear with me on my critiques.
So if I'm still up to date on the Bolas/Trap quest rules, no more than one Bolas player can pick their own trap quest, meaning either:
• Quest 1 is the trap quest and Void, being the only one not in that quest, is therefore Bolas.
• Quest 2 is the trap quest and the Bolas players didn't design a card for their own quest.
• Quest 3 is the trap quest (in which case either both Bolas players went for quest 1 and Void is Guildpact ; or Void is Bolas and the other Bolas player is town).
It seems unlikely to me that none of the Bolas players would make a card for their own quests, especially at this point in the game. The odds seemed stacked against void_nothing imo
While void is suspect due to the quest distribution, zdtsd and Subject16 have the most suspect card history imo, but this rounds card coupled with no trap from last round makes me suspect Subject16 a bit more.
I think my designs have been pretty consistent, far more so than zdtsd's for sure. I do usually add something else to add to my designs to throw off Bolas players should they get my card as a hint, but that doesn't seem to be working especially well.
We're down to six players now. If we don't nail a Bolas player this round and they nightkill someone then it's an even match. At this point void is the most likely Bolas player here, so he's who I'm going for.
I'm going to assume that 2v2 is a lose for Guilpact, as we still didn't receive confirmation what happens if there is a tie in voting. For instance, if no one is exiled, then both Bolas may vote for the same person indefinitely until they trap someone and it's 1v2.
I'd like you to reconsider voting for zdtsd. We may lose this turn, but only if 1 is a trap AND we banish a Guildpact. If 1 is indeed a trap, then probably void is Guildpact, as he probably knew the quest. So we just lose. I feel like voting him now may be very dangerous.
On the other hand, I don't understand why Subject16 is the second option right now. As I told before, he is the most probable person from the blue players, but I'd give him 50/50 chance to be Bolas at worst. Notice he is one of the 3 blue players. Between zdtsd and void, I feel like zdtsd is a bit worse. He is more probable than Subject16.
Also, voting zdtsd may lose the game this round only if void is Bolas AND he didn't know quest 3, so it's not very probable. Of course, the same is true for Subject16.
I'm going to hold my vote for several hours, hopefully receiving confirmation what happens if there is a tie in votes and in game, and some more arguments why zdtsd shouldn't be banished this turn. I will write before 6 PM CET.
To clarify - I don't say void should never be exiled now. If he's Bolas, and we accidentally exile a town, then we don't lose immediately, but we are in 3v2 situation, which is still very dangerous if the trap is triggered next turn.
So here's another point that needs to be made I feel. Team Bolas receive one of our cards as a hint to what type of quest they can design for, yes? Now this means that they must have received something from Quest 1 otherwise we would have had another card for quest 3 or similar to it, right? So that would mean either both Bolas players see a trap related card, ignore their own quest, and make two cards for that, or they design two cards for different quests: One for their own, that they can guarantee a strong, flavorful design for, and then another one relevant to the hint card.
I strongly believe that the latter option is what we're facing now. It doesn't make sense to me that team Bolas wouldn't design a card for their own trap quest, especially since they can't predict that no one else will go for it, which is why void has to go this round. More so than zdtsd I feel because he's more dangerous. He's a very talented designer and clearly an experienced mafia player. If my logic is correct and he's on team Bolas, then he's been playing us all for a while and that will only aggravate into the next round.
Alright, Subject, if you're convinced I'm on Team Bolas then you have to think the exact same thing about Cardz5000, because they soloed a quest last round. And if you're not fully convinced they're Bolas (and it seems to me their designs are pretty consistent and I'm pretty convinced they're Guildpact), then... why draw that conclusion about me?
What I'm telling you is that Bolas is not designing for their own trap quests, plain and simple. I guess it's a head fake? To assume I'm Bolas you have to also assume that Team Bolas made a sacrifice play in the first round. That's already a bad plan. Why would they not then aggressively pursue their only option to "nightkill", being down 7-2 from the start?
@void: I was not solo last round, subject16 also was quest 3
Is that really the case?
I still then have to conclude that Bolas, for whatever unfathomable reason, isn't designing for the quests they came up with. I know that for sure this round and I can strongly conjecture it's the case for last round.
I don't claim to have all the answers. The first round was very different to the rest in its format, and BlazingRagnarok's adaptation to fit the Fblthp quest was pretty dismal from the get go (hence why they got exiled first). Team Bolas has to play the long game, and if you see a team member getting ripped apart in the very first round, it seems wiser to me to jump on the bandwagon to avoid immediate suspicion late on.
But on that note, you WERE the first person to call Gruul out on their problems, which lines up with your sacrifice play idea which probably means I'm wrong about you. Accusation retracted!
Meaning between Cardz, Superbajt, ztdsd and Cantripmancer we have two Bolas agents. ztdsd and Cantripmancer both have a history of shady and awkward designs here. Cardz has consistent designs that meet the quests too well for him to be Bolas I feel. Superbajt has pretty strong designs as well which leads me to trust him more than the the other two.
I'm changing my vote to ztdsd because of his perculiar design history, plus his design this round is similar to Superbajt's as well.
I'm quite afraid to do it now, as the only people that vote him are the ones that are the second and third most dangerous to me... But I Vote ztdsd, as it seems to be the most probable Bolas to me. I didn't want to do it before to not just waste my vote.
I'm too used to Bolas winning if they equal or outnumber the Guildies. The reminder about the tie at least gives us a *chance* if we mis-exile and one of us gets trapped; that's reassuring.
I started a reread of the thread, but life got complicated and I barely made it to page 3. I feel like answers are there waiting to be found (actually, I have a theory, but it'll take time to seek things out), so...
@Mod: Can I request an additional 24 hour extension?
If you're a player and feel strongly against an extension, please say so. I don't want to drag things out, but I also have some free time now and would like to try and solve, if possible.
I guess I'll Vote: zdtsd in case my request for deadline extension is denied. I'm not as confident on him being Bolas after M_J flipped Guildy, but I feel like he's the most likely from a card design perspective. And we don't want a tie at this point.
On another note, I'm having an absolute blast with this game, so much so that I've begun working on my own version (with some shifts and twists) that I'll plan on running shortly after this one finishes.
So here's another point that needs to be made I feel. Team Bolas receive one of our cards as a hint to what type of quest they can design for, yes? Now this means that they must have received something from Quest 1 otherwise we would have had another card for quest 3 or similar to it, right? So that would mean either both Bolas players see a trap related card, ignore their own quest, and make two cards for that, or they design two cards for different quests: One for their own, that they can guarantee a strong, flavorful design for, and then another one relevant to the hint card.
I strongly believe that the latter option is what we're facing now. It doesn't make sense to me that team Bolas wouldn't design a card for their own trap quest, especially since they can't predict that no one else will go for it, which is why void has to go this round. More so than zdtsd I feel because he's more dangerous. He's a very talented designer and clearly an experienced mafia player. If my logic is correct and he's on team Bolas, then he's been playing us all for a while and that will only aggravate into the next round.
This is actually a really strong argument. And I had the same thought that Void's unlikely because he started the push on Ragnarok, but...busing is absolutely a thing, and Ragnarok's card was a really bad fit for the quest they tried to shoehorn it into, so I could absolutely see Void deciding to just yolo bus his buddy. I just...his round 1 card really felt spot-on for the "find Fblthp" quest... I just don't know.
OK how is my design history "peculiar" or bad? I really don't understand it. I design cards to fit a challenge perfectly, and y'all complain that they don't fit the challenge. VOid_Nothing is bolas, his cards are much more generic than mine.
OK how is my design history "peculiar" or bad? I really don't understand it. I design cards to fit a challenge perfectly, and y'all complain that they don't fit the challenge. VOid_Nothing is bolas, his cards are much more generic than mine.
How is a flying 1/1 that reveals the top card of all libraries "useful in the deepest, darkest places of Ravnica"?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I feel bad about the results of the last round. I thought that M_J was Bolas from the first round, and was happy that everyone else noticed it eventually - but then it turned out to be wrong. Ouch. Sorry about that.
From my perspective, two players look most like Bolas - zdtsd and void.
I don't think anyone here doubts why I think this way about zdtsd. His designs were repeatedly weird (Orzhov will'o'wisp? RLY?), and not very convincing.
I don't understand, though, why nobody mentioned void yet. His two first rounds were as long, kitchensinky and general as humanly possible. This would give him more chances that some part of the card would be fitting to the quest, and that part may be later enlarged by directing flavor text at it. Notice the first round "name a card. ANY card.", and second round basically everything. In the third round, sure, he had a very specific antiblue mechanic - but M_J (Guildpact) had it as well. It's scary to me he is the one with Cantripmancer driving this game.
The problem with those two being Bolas is a very serious one - this round. They both very noticeably designed for their quests, zdtsd naming a trap and void being the only one with an artifact. I feel they cannot be both Bolas at the same time. That means that one of the blue players is Bolas, and I don't get that vibe from any of them. That's scary, as that means you can be such a good Bolas for such a long time.
If I had to guess right now who of them is Bolas, I would point to Subject16. His designs were the most strange for their quests of this group, and the unclear quest last round is at least suspicious. I don't feel that certain about that, though, and definitely won't vote for him this round.
This game makes me anxious now, and I don't know if it's a bug or a feature
It looked like Raptorchan was on the chopping block, and since he was one of the people I got the strongest Guildpact tells from, I tried to turn it around. I then proceeded to vote for BlazingRagnarok.
Raptorchan is now dead and known to be Guildpact. We exiled BR in the first round and he was known to be Bolas.
What the hell kind of a play is that exactly, assuming I'm Bolas?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Man, I'd like you to be guildpact, but your designs for first three rounds were too sneaky for me. For now, I feel zdtsd is more Bolasy than you, and as I say, you can't be both Bolas. I wanted to let everyone know what I think, though, because just assuming you are guildpact may potentially doom this game.
On the MELO situation, what happens if noone votes, so everyone votes themselves; or there is otherwise a draw?
The quest says nothing about placing an alarm or a snare, only to create something that traps (either in a specific location or within an object).
I haven't had the time to go over the designs yet so bear with me on my critiques.
So if I'm still up to date on the Bolas/Trap quest rules, no more than one Bolas player can pick their own trap quest, meaning either:
• Quest 1 is the trap quest and Void, being the only one not in that quest, is therefore Bolas.
• Quest 2 is the trap quest and the Bolas players didn't design a card for their own quest.
• Quest 3 is the trap quest (in which case either both Bolas players went for quest 1 and Void is Guildpact ; or Void is Bolas and the other Bolas player is town).
It seems unlikely to me that none of the Bolas players would make a card for their own quests, especially at this point in the game. The odds seemed stacked against void_nothing imo
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Simic also could be bolas. But Vote: Void_Nothing for now.
Deal with it.
/vote Simic
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Vote: Simic/Subject16
We're down to six players now. If we don't nail a Bolas player this round and they nightkill someone then it's an even match. At this point void is the most likely Bolas player here, so he's who I'm going for.
vote
I'd like you to reconsider voting for zdtsd. We may lose this turn, but only if 1 is a trap AND we banish a Guildpact. If 1 is indeed a trap, then probably void is Guildpact, as he probably knew the quest. So we just lose. I feel like voting him now may be very dangerous.
On the other hand, I don't understand why Subject16 is the second option right now. As I told before, he is the most probable person from the blue players, but I'd give him 50/50 chance to be Bolas at worst. Notice he is one of the 3 blue players. Between zdtsd and void, I feel like zdtsd is a bit worse. He is more probable than Subject16.
Also, voting zdtsd may lose the game this round only if void is Bolas AND he didn't know quest 3, so it's not very probable. Of course, the same is true for Subject16.
I'm going to hold my vote for several hours, hopefully receiving confirmation what happens if there is a tie in votes and in game, and some more arguments why zdtsd shouldn't be banished this turn. I will write before 6 PM CET.
I strongly believe that the latter option is what we're facing now. It doesn't make sense to me that team Bolas wouldn't design a card for their own trap quest, especially since they can't predict that no one else will go for it, which is why void has to go this round. More so than zdtsd I feel because he's more dangerous. He's a very talented designer and clearly an experienced mafia player. If my logic is correct and he's on team Bolas, then he's been playing us all for a while and that will only aggravate into the next round.
So, if teams are tied going into a round, team guildpact has a 50% chance if they determine a bolas agent correctly.
What I'm telling you is that Bolas is not designing for their own trap quests, plain and simple. I guess it's a head fake? To assume I'm Bolas you have to also assume that Team Bolas made a sacrifice play in the first round. That's already a bad plan. Why would they not then aggressively pursue their only option to "nightkill", being down 7-2 from the start?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I still then have to conclude that Bolas, for whatever unfathomable reason, isn't designing for the quests they came up with. I know that for sure this round and I can strongly conjecture it's the case for last round.
/unvote, /revote Orzhov
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
But on that note, you WERE the first person to call Gruul out on their problems, which lines up with your sacrifice play idea which probably means I'm wrong about you. Accusation retracted!
Meaning between Cardz, Superbajt, ztdsd and Cantripmancer we have two Bolas agents. ztdsd and Cantripmancer both have a history of shady and awkward designs here. Cardz has consistent designs that meet the quests too well for him to be Bolas I feel. Superbajt has pretty strong designs as well which leads me to trust him more than the the other two.
I'm changing my vote to ztdsd because of his perculiar design history, plus his design this round is similar to Superbajt's as well.
Vote ztdsd, as it seems to be the most probable Bolas to me. I didn't want to do it before to not just waste my vote.
I started a reread of the thread, but life got complicated and I barely made it to page 3. I feel like answers are there waiting to be found (actually, I have a theory, but it'll take time to seek things out), so...
@Mod: Can I request an additional 24 hour extension?
If you're a player and feel strongly against an extension, please say so. I don't want to drag things out, but I also have some free time now and would like to try and solve, if possible.
I believe that the votes stand at:
zdtsd (3): void_nothing, Subject16, Superbajt
Subject16 (1): Cardz5000
void_nothing (1): zdtsd
I guess I'll Vote: zdtsd in case my request for deadline extension is denied. I'm not as confident on him being Bolas after M_J flipped Guildy, but I feel like he's the most likely from a card design perspective. And we don't want a tie at this point.
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On another note, I'm having an absolute blast with this game, so much so that I've begun working on my own version (with some shifts and twists) that I'll plan on running shortly after this one finishes.
Deal with it.