Can cards be transformed in other zones? It creates a lot of memory issues (Did they transform that or forget to flip it back after last game?) and weird rules issues (does it flip back if it gets shuffled in? What about discarded?)
Wouldn't a cleaner execution just be an alternate casting cost that causes the creature to transform as it enters the battlefield?
It creates a lot of memory issues (Did they transform that or forget to flip it back after last game?)....
This is easily the biggest issue with vivify as kjsharp has it worded currently. I don't think it's too big an issue though. It doesn't seem that difficult to remember whether someone transformed a card this game or not. Also, if you're that worried about someone forgetting to transform their cards back when the game ends, there is no reason you can't make sure they do so yourself.
....and weird rules issues (does it flip back if it gets shuffled in? What about discarded?)
This is why I think there should be a clause that says that, once a vivify card has been transformed, it can't be transformed back for the rest of the game.
Wouldn't a cleaner execution just be an alternate casting cost that causes the creature to transform as it enters the battlefield?
Yes, but this kind of defeats the entire purpose of the mechanic, and doesn't allow for instant and sorcery cards with vivify, which I think is what makes vivify cool. Also, this can already be done easily without a new mechanic being introduced.
It's possible that I am wrong about vivify, but I think it seems like it could work. It could certainly be argued that vivify doesn't do anything that can't already be done more cleanly using existing mechanics such as transform, evoke, or split cards, but I like how vivify can be all of those mechanics at once while still feeling like its own thing.
Chilling Air1U
Creature - Elemental (U)
Defender, Flying
When Chilling Air enters the battlefield, tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Vivify (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may return it transformed to its owner's hand.)
0/3
////// Freezing Air2UUU
Enchantment Creature - Elemental (U)
Flying
Whenever a creature attacks you, tap it. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
4/4
This version seems like a pretty cool riff on evoke, but it still has the memory issues that PhyrexianBolas mentions, and doesn't allow for instant and sorcery cards with vivify, which, as I've said several times, is my favorite part of vivify. This version would also need to have a clause about the card not transforming back, otherwise, the current rules for transform would kick in, which would make the card transform back to its front side if it left the battlefield.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Can y'all explain why this creates memory issues? I don't see how there are any memory issues involved here...when you reveal the card, it transforms. No one has to remember anything.
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Your opponent needs to remember that you transformed it this game, and didn't just shuffle it back into your library transformed at the end of the last game. I don't think this issue is a sticking point on the mechanic though, it's just a downside that needs to be considered when evaluating vivify. As far as I'm concerned, adding a clause that says the card can't be transformed back is a much bigger issue. As I said before, the rules for transform make it so that vivify doesn't really work without that additional clause. As least as far as I know.
Edit: BTW, I have been working on a similar type of thing for the 2018 Commander part of the CCL finals challenge, and all of this discussion about vivify has given me a potential solution to my problem (I hope). Thanks.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Crystalline Fields
Land — Plains Island (t: Add W or U to your mana pool.)
When Crystalline Fields enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you pay (W/U).
I find this design to be quite clever, but I wonder what the rarity is intended to be? The fact that it is a Plains/Island makes it want to be a rare, but the power level otherwise says uncommon, or maybe even common. I think UC wouldn't be totally out of line. Ultimately, it's an ETB tapped dual land, with a minor filter ability the turn it enters the battlefield. I'm wondering if it might be better to make the triggered ability cost 1 instead of (W/U)? That way it could act as a U/W filter for decks that are running more than just those colors.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Bellowing Bear2GG Creature — Bear (Uncommon)
Spellcharge 1G(You may reveal this card from your hand at any time. If you do, it remains revealed until it leaves your hand. For as long as this card is revealed, whenever an opponent casts a spell that shares a card type with this card, you may pay 1G. If you do, put a charge counter on this card.)
When you cast Bellowing Bear, create a 2/2 green Bear creature token for each charge counter on it.
2/2
I'm not sure if the cast trigger works that way. It changes zones but does it remember how many counters it had? If not, I'd modify the wording to something like: "When you cast Bellowing Bear, create a 2/2 green Bear creature token for each charge counter removed from this card as it was put onto the stack."
They seem to use it whenever a planeswalker or legendary creature with obvious gender (i.e. usually not monsters, even if they have a canonical gender) is referred to more than once in a single sentence or line.
They seem to use it whenever a planeswalker or legendary creature with obvious gender (i.e. usually not monsters, even if they have a canonical gender) is referred to more than once in a single sentence or line.
Also only on newer cards, it seems.
There are exactly 5 creatures that use gendered terms rather than 'it', they are the 5 flip walkers from origins.
they literally removed gendered pronouns from Rasputin Dreamweaver in the oracle text.
There are exactly 5 creatures that use gendered terms rather than 'it', they are the 5 flip walkers from origins.
they literally removed gendered pronouns from Rasputin Dreamweaver in the oracle text.
Ah, then baseless extrapolation has failed me! How could it be so???
Interesting to know, though. It's also interesting that none of the flip walkers have had the gender pronouns errata'd to 'it'. It looks like even Rasputin was errata'd to just use 'Rasputin' in place of a pronoun.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
This is also happening for me. I couldn't see any of the mana symbols for my card when I posted it yesterday, so I ended up having to make my mana symbols differently. I had to use : symr: instead of R (with no spaces of course) [edit - my mana symbol isn't showing up even with a space in it] , which seems to work. This also happened to me a couple of months ago, but then it only seemed to be happening when I used Google Chrome, everything looked fine if I used a different browser. This time it doesn't seem to work on any browser.
Edit: The usual way I make mana symbols isn't showing up in this post, even with a space in it. You have to quote this post to see it. Weird.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Pesky Thought Nibbler Creature — Nightmare (Rare)
Haste
Whenever Pesky Thought Nibbler deals combat damage to a player, that player exiles a card from his or her hand.
If Pesky Thought Nibbler would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, exile a card from your hand. If you do, put Pesky Thought Nibbler into your hand instead of putting it anywhere else.
1/1
Your mana symbols aren't showing for me. Which is weird because, when I quote your post, I see that you've made your mana symbols the way I've suggested, which works for me. I'm sorry my suggestion doesn't work for you. I hope this issue is resolved soon.
Edit: Huh! Your mana symbols show up for me in my post. How weird! Now I'm wondering if the mana symbols I've been using are actually showing up for others? Can other people see Antiantiserum's mana symbols in his post? Can you see them in my quote of his post?
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
would prefer if the regen only applied to creatures without +1/+1 counters on them, or at least allowed creatures to die somehow at some point so as to not stagnate the game
Ugh, right. That was the intent. I flubbed that replacement effect when I wrote up the submission, then just didn't notice until the next day...
It was supposed to be...
"If a creature without a +1/+1 counter on it would be destroyed, regenerate that creature and put a +1/+1 counter on it."
For some reason I put the card's name in there at the start without thinking about it and managed to get rid of all the actual important wording.
Wouldn't a cleaner execution just be an alternate casting cost that causes the creature to transform as it enters the battlefield?
Yes, but this kind of defeats the entire purpose of the mechanic, and doesn't allow for instant and sorcery cards with vivify, which I think is what makes vivify cool. Also, this can already be done easily without a new mechanic being introduced.
It's possible that I am wrong about vivify, but I think it seems like it could work. It could certainly be argued that vivify doesn't do anything that can't already be done more cleanly using existing mechanics such as transform, evoke, or split cards, but I like how vivify can be all of those mechanics at once while still feeling like its own thing.
Edit: This version seems like a pretty cool riff on evoke, but it still has the memory issues that PhyrexianBolas mentions, and doesn't allow for instant and sorcery cards with vivify, which, as I've said several times, is my favorite part of vivify. This version would also need to have a clause about the card not transforming back, otherwise, the current rules for transform would kick in, which would make the card transform back to its front side if it left the battlefield.
Edit: BTW, I have been working on a similar type of thing for the 2018 Commander part of the CCL finals challenge, and all of this discussion about vivify has given me a potential solution to my problem (I hope). Thanks.
@flatline- omg this is so close
*shakes fists at the heavens*
good game.
I thought you were trying to make Over My Dead Bodies for black-border.
Club Flamingo win: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,
8, 9
The Winner is Judge win: 1, 2
Winner is also Judge win: 1, 2
Creature — Bear (Uncommon)
Spellcharge 1G (You may reveal this card from your hand at any time. If you do, it remains revealed until it leaves your hand. For as long as this card is revealed, whenever an opponent casts a spell that shares a card type with this card, you may pay 1G. If you do, put a charge counter on this card.)
When you cast Bellowing Bear, create a 2/2 green Bear creature token for each charge counter on it.
2/2
Objection!
They seem to use it whenever a planeswalker or legendary creature with obvious gender (i.e. usually not monsters, even if they have a canonical gender) is referred to more than once in a single sentence or line.
Also only on newer cards, it seems.
- Rabid Wombat
- Rabid Wombat
There are exactly 5 creatures that use gendered terms rather than 'it', they are the 5 flip walkers from origins.
they literally removed gendered pronouns from Rasputin Dreamweaver in the oracle text.
Ah, then baseless extrapolation has failed me! How could it be so???
Interesting to know, though. It's also interesting that none of the flip walkers have had the gender pronouns errata'd to 'it'. It looks like even Rasputin was errata'd to just use 'Rasputin' in place of a pronoun.
- Rabid Wombat
Ride Down
I have some personal issues and need to cut down on internet use, so I won't be participating any longer. Thanks guy for the good fun.
Club Flamingo win: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,
8, 9
The Winner is Judge win: 1, 2
Winner is also Judge win: 1, 2
Edit: The usual way I make mana symbols isn't showing up in this post, even with a space in it. You have to quote this post to see it. Weird.
Edit: Huh! Your mana symbols show up for me in my post. How weird! Now I'm wondering if the mana symbols I've been using are actually showing up for others? Can other people see Antiantiserum's mana symbols in his post? Can you see them in my quote of his post?
edit: Just deleted my post and reposted. Now it works for me.
Ugh, right. That was the intent. I flubbed that replacement effect when I wrote up the submission, then just didn't notice until the next day...
It was supposed to be...
"If a creature without a +1/+1 counter on it would be destroyed, regenerate that creature and put a +1/+1 counter on it."
For some reason I put the card's name in there at the start without thinking about it and managed to get rid of all the actual important wording.
- Rabid Wombat