I guess another logical argument in favor of the current system is that, as long as there are any teams and they are randomly decided, it is guaranteed that some teams will be harder competition than others. That is the whole point of having a "Top 8" elimination bracket, the weaker people get eliminated by the finals. In theory, if you are the 3rd or 4th player on Team A but you could have been the 1st on Team B, you should still lose to the 1st and 2nd players of Team A in the elimination rounds.
The main thing I want to see changed (and I don't think this happens every month, but I've seen it happen on occasion) is how the first round of the top 8 are paired. I think each of the top contestants from each team should be paired against a second place person of a different team (to avoid power matching and to try to ensure the best designers make it the furthest, and to make the top 8 feel different than the team matches.)
For instance:
Top 8
First place Team A vs. Second place Team C
First place Team B vs. Second place Team D
First place Team C vs. Second place Team A
First place Team D vs. Second place Team B
This sort of bracket also allows for the possibility of the final two people having been on the same starting team, which I think is a good idea (considering some of the teams I've seen in the past.)
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
I'm going to depart briefly from the current topic to mention what I have planed for my CCL. After having to come up with a third idea for my month (PsiJet's contest matched more than half of my first idea, and Twilight Kiwi's is almost a mirror of my second idea... seriously WT?), I also want to try some changes in scoring. I have previously mentioned some, but I'll reiterate them here.
Round 0 signups are to be scored during Round 1 by your fellow teammates (no, you don't get to score your own card). Days 1-6 for the month are to submit Round 1 and score Round 0. This will give greater significance to "avatar" design, as this particular aspect of the CCL is sometimes overlooked. Especially when it comes to 'broken' cards that are submitted.
Round 1 submissions will be scored during Round 2. Days 7-12: submit Round 2 and score Round 1 of assigned team.
Round 2 submissions will be scored during Round 3. Days 13-18: submit Round 3 and score Round 2.
Round 3 scoring will be given days 19-22. Top 8, Top 4, and Final 2 will be given time given as needed, likely 4 days to design, then 3 for scoring. Six days for the first three Rounds might be tight, but it should cut down on some delays. Also, holding the judging into the next Round might give players more incentive to not drop early (you can't judge if your don't have an entry).
I like Dragoon's idea for switching up Top 8. If others like the suggestion, I'll incorporate that as well.
I approve. I've seen some seriously atrocious starting cards that end forcing the designer onto a path of ever increasing atrociousness. Being able to receive early feedback on them should help.
EDIT: can we also get a big, colorful disclaimer in the signing up round asking people NOT to sign up if they believe they won't have time later on the month or that they will get bored/frustrated after a bad first round? Not sure how useful is it really to appeal to people's consciences but if it serves to keep away at least one would-be-dropper, it'd be worth it.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
After starting to amend the CCL Fine Print Rules for my month (a daunting enough task), I noticed that they haven't been updated in quite some time. There are still references to splitting into two teams, and that critiques must be given for "at least 50% of the entries given by the leaguers on the other team." The scoring section has not been updated to reflect the new formula. Also, the "card submitted by Fitzgerald" is missing. The "Fine Print" doesn't even match up with the Rules on the first page of this thread.
I could have an updated version (four teams, updated scoring rules, etc.) ready for review before the 25th, if anyone thinks it might be a good idea to get it straightened out.
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I think it's a great idea. As someone who entered for the first time this month, I found the rules slightly confusing for the reasons you mention above. Someone cleaning it up would be most appreciated
That would be nice Eventide. It has been a really long time since those rules were posted and I guess everybody just copy/pasted them into their months and didn't looked at them, like i did.
Thanks for taking the time to do this and I would post them in the june ccl.
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"Those who endure in the face of suffering, those whose faith shines long in evil days, they shall see salvation." -Song of All, canto 904
I thought there was an updated short version at one point, I don't think a long version is really necessary, with all the examples and whatnot.
What issues need to be addressed? I don't know if we really resolved the problem with players who drop.
Seems like the important parts are
Creating a sign-up "avatar" to set your theme for the month
3 rounds of points-based, non-elimination competition followed by a single-elimination Top 8
Use of teams to guide the critique process
Scoring system - Top 3, bonus points, 100 points possible each round
I think the major appeal of the CCL is getting multiple opinions on your cards, which makes it different from the first rounds of the MCC. Also, the roleplaying aspect of developing your theme and your avatar appeals to some players.
It would be great if Eventide wants to write up a simple version including all that stuff.
So, a simplified version, not one that looks like the legal disclaimer from Kraj. That's a little easier, then. Can I include a new rule that says Gerrard's Mom isn't allowed to win, no matter how good the designs are? No? *sigh* Okay.
@GM: How did you not get Card Maker of the Year for 2010? Or did you remove yourself from contention?
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I did pretty well in CCLs last year, but the last Card Maker of the Year competition was deservedly won by luminum can, who spent a lot of time in the main Card Creation forum critiquing people's cards, displaying his own, and discussing card design topics.
Anyway, I remembered where there was a pretty good version of the rules - the first post of this thread. Is there a need to update anything there?
The rules on the first post work of this thread for me. I was going to use them to help update the long-form rules to begin with. We just need to remind people to use those in the future instead of the "old" rules.
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I will start the Sign Ups for the June CCL tomorrow night. They will run from the 26 to the 1st of june.
@ Everybody - What do you thin of the anti-drop message?? Is it ok or will it need more work???
Message:
Please read: The CCL is commited to bring out the best in card creation. To accomplish this we need your commitment to posting cards and a top three for at least the first three rounds. Critiques of the cards are not mandatory but could get you extra points. If you think that you could not stay on this contest for at least the first three rounds we respectfully recommend that you don't enter this contest. Players that drop make it harder for the host and the players to have a great time here. In any case you could join on the following months whe you have more time. Thank you for reading. *for more info on this announcement please check the CCL Discussion thread*
I like the disclaimer, Krey. Also, I'm worked up a vB Code version of Da Rules and Scoring, with some language clean ups (mostly just clarification points). It's a little odd that the Rules state Top 3 must be posted, but we give a "bonus" point for completing it each Round.
Here's what it looks like.
The Card Creation League is a monthly contest in which players compete over seven rounds. Each month has an overall theme and/or story, determined by that month's host.
Each round, the host will assign a card creation task to the players. This task may vary between teams or players.
The first three rounds are open to everyone who joined in the sign-up thread, which will be posted near the end of the previous month. After these rounds, the Top 8 players will move on to three single elimination rounds to determine a winner.
Rounds usually last three to four days for submissions and about two days for critiques, but the host has final say in making the schedule.
For the first three rounds, players are divided into teams. Four teams is standard, but there may be more or less depending on the number of players. Each team will review another team's cards during the critique period of that round.
Each player must submit a Top 3 ranking for the team he or she critiques at the end of each round. Each First Place is worth 3 points; Second Place is 2 points; and Third Place is 1 point.
Additionally, each player can receive up to 2 additional points per round. One point is given for posting a Top 3, and one point for providing critiques for that team's cards.
Suggested areas to critique include creativity, balance, printability, and relation to the overall theme or that player's previous cards.
Players who do not post a card or a Top 3 will be put on "probation." Top 3 violations for a round can be removed by posting or PMing the host with your Top 3 before the end of the next round. Any player that would receive a second violation is disqualified from further competition that month.
At the end of the first three rounds, the Top 8 players will be selected by points (usually the top 2 from each team). In the case of ties, there may be more than 8 players advancing. The host will determine matchups for single elimination. At the end of each elimination round, remaining players not in that matchup will choose a winner to advance. The host will break any ties.
The final round is determined by public poll.
Prior to Top 8, players have a chance of getting a total of 100 points toward their score each Scoring Round. Scores for each Round are determined by the following equation:
Total points of Player A in round N = 100 * X/Y, where:
X = Total number of Scoring Points (Judge Points + Additional Points from Top 3 & Critiques)
Y = Total number of Possible Points (3 * Number of Judges + Additional Points)
3 points are given for a First Place Top 3 finish, 2 points for a Second Place, and 1 point for a Third Place. 1 additional point is awarded if a Top 3 is submitted. 1 additional point is awarded if Critiques are given for all entries to be judged.
This way the grading is more streamlined in the fact that all rounds prior to Top 8 are graded equally, and there is no handicap for any team that has fewer judges.
Each player accumulates points from each Scoring Round until the end of Round 3.
And for those that would want a text version with the vB Code (easier than copying and pasting from another post), I've attached that as well. Right now, I have this worked into my posts for the July CCL. If people feel changes should be made, I'd appreciate being told soon.
ATTACHMENTS
CCL Rules
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Okay, I have a little more on my plate this month than I was expecting, so I'm not going to have my CCL ready to go for July. I should be fine to run August, but I figured giving advance notice would help with schedule shuffling.
EDIT: Never mind, I was looking at the list on the first post, not the updated list on 186. Asrama has July, I have August.
With the May CCL nearing its conclusion, I'd like to ask for any feedback about the month's challenges. What did you guys think of the theme? Which rounds did you think were the most fun/challenging, or the worst? What did you like the best and least about it overall? Any constructive criticism, or advice for next time I run a CCL, would be hugely appreciated.
Speaking of which, I see the next unclaimed month is December according to the most recent list I could find. I don't think I'll have time that month, so can I put my name down for January next year?
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"Suffer the little creatures, for they may yet rise up and beat you senseless."
Well, I wasn't able to partake in much of the CCL, but for what it's worth, I thought your story was awesome. My favorite of all CCL's I've seen/been in by far.
I'm going to have a hard time trying to match it. My current CCL plans (yes, I work that far ahead) are interesting in terms of challenges, but far less entertaining story-wise. >_>
@brasil: I had my CCL ready in March. Then PsiJet stole my idea (more than 50% match). I was halfway finished, and Twilight Kiwi stole my next concept. Thankfully, Krey's has been different enough already that I'm okay, and I came up with a story no one has done before (as far back as I could check).
Hopefully Asrama and I don't think alike, otherwise I'm screwed.
For instance:
Top 8
First place Team A vs. Second place Team C
First place Team B vs. Second place Team D
First place Team C vs. Second place Team A
First place Team D vs. Second place Team B
This sort of bracket also allows for the possibility of the final two people having been on the same starting team, which I think is a good idea (considering some of the teams I've seen in the past.)
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Round 0 signups are to be scored during Round 1 by your fellow teammates (no, you don't get to score your own card). Days 1-6 for the month are to submit Round 1 and score Round 0. This will give greater significance to "avatar" design, as this particular aspect of the CCL is sometimes overlooked. Especially when it comes to 'broken' cards that are submitted.
Round 1 submissions will be scored during Round 2. Days 7-12: submit Round 2 and score Round 1 of assigned team.
Round 2 submissions will be scored during Round 3. Days 13-18: submit Round 3 and score Round 2.
Round 3 scoring will be given days 19-22. Top 8, Top 4, and Final 2 will be given time given as needed, likely 4 days to design, then 3 for scoring. Six days for the first three Rounds might be tight, but it should cut down on some delays. Also, holding the judging into the next Round might give players more incentive to not drop early (you can't judge if your don't have an entry).
I like Dragoon's idea for switching up Top 8. If others like the suggestion, I'll incorporate that as well.
EDIT: can we also get a big, colorful disclaimer in the signing up round asking people NOT to sign up if they believe they won't have time later on the month or that they will get bored/frustrated after a bad first round? Not sure how useful is it really to appeal to people's consciences but if it serves to keep away at least one would-be-dropper, it'd be worth it.
@ Everybody - I will start the sign up rounds for the June CCL in May 26 and close them on the 1st of June.
June CCL's Hint: "BACON SO ILL"
I could have an updated version (four teams, updated scoring rules, etc.) ready for review before the 25th, if anyone thinks it might be a good idea to get it straightened out.
Viperion
Thanks for taking the time to do this and I would post them in the june ccl.
What issues need to be addressed? I don't know if we really resolved the problem with players who drop.
Seems like the important parts are
It would be great if Eventide wants to write up a simple version including all that stuff.
@GM: How did you not get Card Maker of the Year for 2010? Or did you remove yourself from contention?
Anyway, I remembered where there was a pretty good version of the rules - the first post of this thread. Is there a need to update anything there?
@ Everybody - What do you thin of the anti-drop message?? Is it ok or will it need more work???
Message:
Here's what it looks like.
Y = Total number of Possible Points (3 * Number of Judges + Additional Points)
And for those that would want a text version with the vB Code (easier than copying and pasting from another post), I've attached that as well. Right now, I have this worked into my posts for the July CCL. If people feel changes should be made, I'd appreciate being told soon.
Also, can I have the Tap Ability also have a mana cost and can I have the other ability have a tap cost?
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
This is for me more than it is for anyone else. I sucks at colors.
EDIT: Never mind, I was looking at the list on the first post, not the updated list on 186. Asrama has July, I have August.
Speaking of which, I see the next unclaimed month is December according to the most recent list I could find. I don't think I'll have time that month, so can I put my name down for January next year?
My First (And Probably Only) MCC Perfect Score: December 09 (Round One)
I'm going to have a hard time trying to match it. My current CCL plans (yes, I work that far ahead) are interesting in terms of challenges, but far less entertaining story-wise. >_>
Hopefully Asrama and I don't think alike, otherwise I'm screwed.
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[15:21] <@CC> Remember, if you argue, you are an idiot.
Untrophied Wins:
Perfect MCC Scores: 2
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