Anyone have ANY comments for my idea for the blue ability?
I like that a lot better than giving blue, the already-dominant control color, even more amazing control elements in the way of Rampant Growth or Stone Rain, or even worse, creature kill.
The reason I thought that Dominate fit right in with green is because green is the color of big-mana. The idea behind the card was not that you needed to spend enough mana to "overwhelm" the creature into coming to your control, but needed to be in-tune with the creature and spend enough mana to "tap-in" to the creature's wild side and reawaken that primal spark. Green Annex sounds pretty cool too, though it overlaps a bit with our black timeshift...
The name "Emergency Prohibition" is about a million times better than what I came up with, and it conveys perfectly the REASON it needs to be in a graveyard for the white mages to want to ban it. They've seen it once, they realize how powerful it is, and they put forth a law that makes it never cast again.
Cranial Extraction seems too proactive for this sort of reactionary methodology. You don't say "I think something is going to be too powerful so I'll ban it." unless you're WOTC and you just printed Memory Jar. You find out that something is too good, THEN you put up laws prohibiting it. Like, y'know, Prohibition in the States.
I'm glad Mwonvuli Acid-Moss in black makes as much sense to you guys as it did to me.
And lastly, Lodestone Pulse is cool, but "Lodestone" says "artifact" to me, not enchantment. That's what I was grappling with when I was coming up with a name for it, because it was very difficult to figure out a way to say "magnetism" without necessarily saying "artifact." However, the flavor text seems spot-on (and, btw, hilarious.)
That's my two cents for now. The only reason I want to rush this process is we need to base the second part of the cards off this decision, and I'd rather get started on our actual cards sooner rather than later.
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spreadingdark, I don't think we need to worry about what "tools" we're giving blue. We're not an actual Wizards design team,otherwise we would have to worry. Really, our concern is primarily impressing LGMHorus. Besides, it would just be one card anyway. And our non-shift card is probably going to get red's artifact-destroying abilities (clearly weaker) anyway, as the major idea was to give blue something of red's power in the ability to destroy the same things red can. If it's really that bothersome, we could limit our blue shift to artifact destruction. Perhaps not as powerful, but still quite flavorful and clever.
However, I have to go with Shiny on the Dominate thing. Green may be the color of "big mana," but it would still feel like "overpowering" the creature from a flavor goob's perspective. And while the need to "dial in" to the creature's animalistic side is a clever flavor write-off, it still feels like a bit of a stretch, even for WOtC's recent (shall we say loose?) flavor standards.
Annex and our black shift do seem similar in that they both could be said to be "taking hold" of a land. However, I tried to remedy that with both of their non-shifted counterparts. The non-shifted black one I came up with feels more like "making" a swamp than transforming one. Green Annex, as I said, is literally grabbing a land away from someone using a strengthened land-bonding ability. All mages can bond their power to a land, green's just better at it. Black "takes hold" of a land not by simply muscling it away, but by corrupting it. If the two still feel too similar, we could shift Yavimaya Dryad. The best part is that black would play it a bit differently than green would. While Dryad players would prefer to play her for their own mana accel, "Evil Dryad" would be used primarily for it's evasion in a Black Weenie deck. A false gift sounds like a pretty black-mage trick too, doesn't it?
Coming to the subject of Lodestones...yeah, it sound's a little artifact-esque. That's why the noun in the name of Lodestone Pulse is "Pulse." It refers to what the Enchantment actually is, the energy emitting from the rock. Besides, "lodestone" sounds more mystical and less technical (blue) than Magnetic Field. As for the Armor card, "rock armor" has long been an acceptable flavor of Aura. This one just happens to be made of magnetic rock. To make it more like the typical "rock armor" aura, we could make it pump the creature's toughness and/or power. That way, not only would the creature have a big fat target on his head, but you wouldn't have to worry about the creature dying so easily.
Dark makes a good case for not doing a destroy effect, but Aracdeus is right about not needing to put this in the context of the current metagame. I think blue has more flavor potential in its inherent indirectness than doing a straightforward destroy effect would allow. So I do like Cerebral Sluice (though I'm not wedded to the name) and think the Mental-Polymorph flavor is a good reason to do it if we can get the right art. We would need to do a killer original card using the same flavor for this to grok well, but I think we're up to the task.
I also like Dominate over Control Magic for green for the above reasons. And I also thought that Yavimaya Dryad would make a great black card. However, the planeshifts are primarily about flavor, so I think we should fine tune the names, and even the base card, to the art now that we have concepts mostly hammered out. The art can't be tangentially related to the mechanics we are shifted: they need to scream them.
I think we have clear, strong concepts for everything but blue, and we need to start suggesting art. I want to see anything and everything that looks even remotely like:
White: Lots of people being rounded-up and arrested, police state, draconian politicians, mass executions, fascism, people being stripped of their identities, the iron fist of the law
Black: Decomposing corpses in a landscape, swaths of death in otherwise flourishing forests, Cadaverous Bloom 2, a creature that does these things
Red: Reroute2, Goblin Flectomancer 2, lots of junk flying at a creature's head, swords bending backwards and pointing at their owners, fields that mangle weapons and armor
Green: an aristocrat going berserk/mutating, a psychedelic trance, vestiges of a ruined civilization, parasitic insects that use your body, green werewolves, revolt
As for blue, the idea of a scholarly blue mage physically reshaping/reusing his spells appeals to me, though we need to have something that connects to the graveyard visually. What do dead spells look like? Maybe a blue wizard magically ripping individual pages out lots of different old, tattered books in a big pile? It could be something even more abstract, like the 9th Sift.
although i like the flavor of the shifted Tortured Existence, I was under the impression we were shifting from enemy colors. Green is already shifting to black, so blue has to draw from red. I still say artifact destruction by obsessive tinkering to learn about it (Smash shifted) is quite blue. If that doesn't work, The only other red things I can see blue doing that it can't already do are:
>combat abilities like haste, first strike, double strike, and trample
>power-only pumping
>messing with blockers
#3 seems the logical choice
Shift card possibilities Convulsing Licid Raging River
Anything that says "target creature can't block"
I kind of like the Raging River possibility, except renamed Dimension Barrier and instead of East and West, the choice is between Astral and Material.
While I agree that white should go for 'remove-all-copies'. I'm totally against white Extirpate. The reason is, you need the target card in the graveyard. Now, we want to make white ban/exile things, but what flavor is there in ban/exile that needs a target card in a graveyard to function? White Cranial Extraction would works better than white Extirpate.
And I don't think green stealing should come in the form of Dominate. The flavor behind green's stealing is the return to nature. And forcing something back to nature (Spending enough mana to overcome a certain creature) just doesn't click for green. It stand firm on green Control Magic.
I agree that cranial extraction is a better choice than extirpate. The new card for white could be one that targets a permanent (obviously it'd have to be expensive).
I believe black Mwonwoli Acid Moss is a winner and red Aegis of Honor is excellent as well.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I don't think we should limit ourselves from shifting only enemy abilities. We're obviously very divided on what blue should get, so let's keep our options as open as possible.
As far as Arcadeus' suggestions, I think we should put some more thought into combat related abilities as blue is the least combat-oriented and none of the other colors are getting them (though red can use damage redirection in combat).
Can't block is related to unblockability, which blue does get. But it's also a fairly narrow ability that doesn't see much play. I like the suggestion of Raging River in that it's a splashy, cool card, but it's kind of a rules-text nightmare, and doesn't really interact with flying in a pro-blue way. Chaosphere, despite having my all time favorite flavor text, is an outright flying-hoser, so it doesn't really make sense.
But there are other variants of this that red gets which could be interesting. Blue got Siren's Call before red did. And then there's two-headed-ness ala Goblin War Drums:
Double Vision - 2U
Enchantment
Each creature you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures. Tog! Hit the one on the left! Your left! Your other left!
Other names: Mirror Image, Confuse, Obfuscate
Easy to illustrate. Works with blue's imagecrafting and illusions. Makes flying even harder to deal with. I'll try to mock up some originals that play off this, but I think it has potential.
Twinning Homunculus - 1UU
Creature - Illusion (r)
Twinning Homunculus can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Whenever Twinning Homunculus attacks, put a token into play tapped and attacking that is a copy of it.
1/1
(Nacatl War-Pride and Chronozoa have different wordings regarding token copies, but this is templated off them. Could this be worded to "put a tapped and attacking token copy of it into play"?)
Small issue with Twinning Homunculus...you end up with two "two-headed" creatures. Unless the flavor is something like the thing is perpetually splitting like Chronozoa, that might not be what u'r going for. Maybe make it a "2-headed" 2/2 that gives you the option of splitting it into 2 one-headed 1/1's when it attacks.
When Twinning Homunculus attacks, you may remove it from the game. If you do, put two 1/1 blue illusion creature tokens into play tapped and attacking.
Small issue with Twinning Homunculus...you end up with two "two-headed" creatures. Unless the flavor is something like the thing is perpetually splitting like Chronozoa, that might not be what u'r going for.
That's exactly what I'm going for. I like the way the two-headedness and the doubling play off each other. Because you need two creatures to kill it in combat and you can get a lot of copies quickly, it can act as a finisher. But at the end of the day, they're just 1/1s.
I also think that we shouldn't limit the effects to enemy colors only. Though it might look good, it would be quite bad if we somehow end up with a subpar ability due to this restriction.
Follow Earth or Plow Under would be too similar to blue cards that put creatures or land on top of library, see Temporal Eddy, Spin into Myth, Time Ebb.
My suggestion is that blue could also do damage in a certain way. (Psionic Blast wouldn't count, since it was timeshifted.)
Mental Breakdown UU
Target creature deals damage to itself equal to its power.
Are you guys interested in red Pariah? Makes a creature magnetic and shunts all damage to it.
Lodestone Infusion 2R
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature.
All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead.
If we make blue destruction, it doesn't matter whether or not it's cool in the format. I totally agree with that. However, the first and only thing that I think when I see blue removal is "Wow, that's utterly broken, because that's one of the few things that blue can't do well." That fact alone, in my opinion, will turn off anyone (including LGMhorus) judging the cards. I absolutely think it's a bad idea to give blue straight creature kill, regardless of how in-flavor it is. I personally would rather shift from an allied color, because I'm 99% sure that the response to blue removal will be "overpowered."
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I think that more or less, people would think that the blue shift is broken. Since blue is the best at what it does (So it's Wolverine?). And bad to worst at what the other colors do. People screamed when Psionis Blast was timeshifted, deeming it as broken, babbling about 8 Chars.dec and the likes. But in the end, Psionic Blast doesn't break anything. As lgmhorus actively reads the discussion threads, I'm sure he'll be aware of this fact.
Again, my concern is straight removal without a control-deck drawback is too good in blue. Psionic Blast has a control-deck drawback (removal, but taking two damage is not good against agro) versus Terror in blue, which doesn't at all. That's all I'm a'sayin'. If we give blue removal, we need to make sure it does have a downside that a mono-blue control deck would care about, or else it would just create lots of unfun scenarios.
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The brokenness of blue destruction is precisely why I tried to suggest other red powers blue could copy, such as messing with who can attack and block. This led to Rowsdower's suggestion of blue "two-head" creatures whose two-headedness stems from their illusion/self-copying powers. I still say our green shift should be Annex, by the way.
Blue has removal; it usually doesn't DESTROY things. Now, blue creature destruction can certainly happen, but you have to do it carefully. For instance, the blue Diabolic Edict is not too far a stretch, especially if it's worded like "target opponent sacrifices a creature of your choice". Blue controls things, right down to the opponent's turn (to me, Mindslaver is an extremely blue artifact). Take this for example:
Tidal Surge 4UU Sorcery
Each player sacrifices four lands and Tidal Surge deals four damage to each creature without flying.
(no flavor text, cause it's too early in the morning for my mind to work :p) A colorshifted Wildfire, doable by blue. Throw enough water on land, and it goes away...and it could certainly "drown" a bunch of nonflying creatures.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Well, it sounds like our Green shift is going to be Annex (though Steal Artifact could be neat as well), our Black shift Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, and our White shift will be Cranial Extraction. I've also heard a few positive things about Red getting Aegis of Honor.
If we're looking for "twinning" abilities to copy over to Blue from Red, we could always use the original, though Goblin War Drums seems neat to shift over too. For a really old card, False Orders has a very interesting effect, too.
Another thing that Red gets that has been suggested for Blue was artifact destruction. Smash as "tinkering too much to learn" seemed like a neat idea.
Blue creature destruction could be done, but we would need to find an existing card that could be switched to Blue and not be too good.
Lastly, something Red does that nobody else tends to do is flip coins. Blue is not the color of chaos, but taking calculated risks is certainly Blue, and there are certain coin flipping cards that don't particularly matter whether or not you win or lose the flip. Winter Sky, Puppet's Verdict, and Molten Sentry, for example, can be beneficial either way. I personally think that Molten Sentry or Winter Sky could easily be shifted into blue with the right flavor.
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Blue has removal; it usually doesn't DESTROY things. Now, blue creature destruction can certainly happen, but you have to do it carefully. For instance, the blue Diabolic Edict is not too far a stretch, especially if it's worded like "target opponent sacrifices a creature of your choice".
This was my first suggestion for blue, so I'm on board with that idea.
We are getting closer to the deadline. We need to just pick something that makes sense in color and that we can get across flavor-wise. Power-level and metagame concerns are secondary. We still need to come up with most of the originals, so let's get to work.
If people prefer the two-headedness, here's a redo on my homunculus, as the first one would start multiplying too quickly. I was thinking of giving it haste like Bonded Fetch...thoughts?:
Twinning Homunculus - :1mana::symu::symu:
Creature - Homunculus (r)
Twinning Homunculus can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Whenever Twinning Homunculus deals combat damage to an opponent, put a token into play that is a copy of it.
1/1
For the green original, I was thinking about Burning Tree Shaman and whether there might be meat on the activated ability bone.
Animal Farm - 2GG http://fantastic.library.cornell.edu/imagerecord_l.php?record=198
Enchantment
Your opponents may not play activated abilities of creatures they control. You may play activated abilities of creatures you don't control (as if you were their controller?).
I just found that Cornell archive of old fantasy images. Pretty interesting stuff, if not particularly useful.
The problem I have with blue two-headedness is that there are currently no cards that's cool enough to be shifted. Goblin War Drums would very rarely matter for blue. If you shift a card and somehow that card doesn't make any difference, I think that's quite lame. Look at white Cranial Extraction, Green Annex and Black Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, blue Goblin War Drums pales in comparision both in term of coolness and the power level.
The only fitting card I could think of is Two-Headed Dragon. Then we would have to come up with a way to justify firebreathing.
I wouldn't go against it if the agreement would be blue two-headedness. But I still think that blue Rampant Growth or blue Kiku's Shadow is a very nice choice.
Due to the upcoming deadline, I think I'll be working on the new cards for the colors that we have reached the agreement. White 'remove all copies', black 'swampification', red 'magnetic attraction', and green 'control'.
If you guys are happy with Back to Nature, I would carve it into the final version.
I think if we're really that divided over white Extirpate vs white Cranial Extraction, we could do this: Shift one and make our new card functionally similar. I think Extirpate-renamed-Emergency Ban makes the most sense as a shift to white. Besides, I'd love to be able to find a way to poke fun at Memory Jar with this one somehow. That is the one Wizards "emergency banned" isn't it? We can make a "Cranial Extraction creature" to complement it. How about...
Thought Police
2WW
Creature-Human Wizard Soldier
When Thought Police comes into play name a card. 2W,:symtap::Target player reveals his or her hand. Remove all copies of the named card in that player's hand from the game. 1W,:symtap::Counter target activated or triggered ability of a card with that name.
2/2
Functionally similar to Cranial Extraction in that it can hose one card completely, but done in a much more white-style way, even down to it's ability to counter abilities of cards. Granted, it's easier to stop than Cranial Extraction, but we're being judged on design, not format effectiveness or whatever. The name is just a playtest name, by the way. If the name and creature types would be better off as something else. At least this way everyone's happy.
I see we're still on the fence about blue. Blue destruction, I'll admit, is a bit of a stretch and something blue really shouldn't be able to do. That's why we tried to come up with other red things blue could do. The best option so far feels like messing with who can block. For this, shifting False Orders (and renaming it something like Focus Shift) sounded like a really cool idea. Not only does it sound like a crafty blue-like tactic (mind-controlling a creature to block who you want it to), but much like Balduvian Warlord, only a blue brain can understand it lol. Our original card could be something much simpler: a creature that can't block, but done in a blue way.
Synapse Snapper 1U
Creature-Illusion
Synapse Snapper is unblockable
Synapse Snapper can't block. "Some thoughts are dangerous."
1/1
It is a creature made of psychic energy. Being made only of thought, it can't interact with normal creatures. It kind of plays out like a ramped up form of the shadow ability. It's a creature that can only attack on a mental/astral level.
The connection is that red is able to affect a creature's ability to block (either by taking away a creature's ability to block or by making creatures that themselves cannot block), and that's what we wanted to shift to blue.
Black, red, and green shifts aren't really in contention.
Okay, I'm gonna get kinda serious here. I think we need to agree on something quickly. I know that by the time most of you read this, we'll still have two or three days to finish, but I figure we'll need a day or two to scrounge up good art and fix any final tweaks before we render. To that end, I submit the following cards for your approval. I think these cards bring together the best of what we've come up with so far.
Emergency Ban W
Instant
Split Second
Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library. "For such a thing to be seen again would spell disaster. We must act quickly and decisively to ensure that it remains lost."
Thought Police 2WW
Creature-Human Wizard Soldier
When Thought Police comes into play name a card. 2W,:symtap::Target player reveals his or her hand. Remove all copies of the named card in that player's hand from the game. 1W,:symtap::Counter target activated or triggered ability of a card with that name.
2/2
Focus Shift U
Instant
Play Focus Shift only during the declare blockers step.
Target creature defending player controls is removed from combat. Creatures that creature had been blocking this combat are considered unblocked if no other creatures are blocking them. You may have the creature block an attacking creature of your choice.
Synapse Snapper 1U
Creature-Illusion
Synapse Snapper is unblockable
Synapse Snapper can't block. "Some thoughts are dangerous."
1/1
Rotspreader 1BB
Creature-Zombie
Swampwalk.
When Rotpreader comes into play, you may search your library for a Swamp card and put it into play tapped under target player's control. If you do, shuffle your library.
2/1 The foulest hearts always corrupt those unfortunate places they wish to call home.
Filthseeding
Sorcery 4BB
Search your library for up to three swamp cards and put them into play tapped.
Fleshdelve (You may remove any number of creature cards in your graveyard from the game as you play this spell. It costs less to play for each card removed this way.)
When they can't expand their diseased territories fast enough, Urborg's armies pile their fallen in pits to accelerate the seepage of miasma into the soil.
Repulsor-Staff Shaman 2R
Creature-Goblin Shaman 1R:The next 1 damage that would be dealt to Repulsor-Staff this turn is dealt to target creature instead.
2/2 "The only reason those goblins even know lodestones can repel is because one of them put the blasted thing in his staff upside-down!"
Lodestone Armor 1R
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +0/+3.
All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature. "This armor makes me attractive, but sadly it's only to pointy things."
Forcebond 2GG
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant land
You control enchanted land. "I have spent my life listening to the land. Should I ask, it will return the favor"
Voice of the Wilderness 3GG
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant creature
Convoke
You control enchanted creature and it becomes green. In every heart lies something of the wild. To call to that part is to bring the creature home.
As I said, I tried to bring together the best of what we have. If these cards click, we should probably make adjustments to them today and maybe tomorrow, and finalize the art and renders on the last day or two. We only have three days to finish, and LGMHorus probably won't be as patient with us this time. Like these ideas? It took us a couple days to finalize last time, so we need to pick our basic cards now so we have plenty of time to make them awesome.
Overhaul 2U
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play ~, sacrifice an artifact.
Return target artifact card from your graveyard to play. The legacy of the Thran are prepared for an grand encore.
The thing I like about cycles are the fact that it can make seemingly simple thing's into something unique. I think it was an old proverb that said, any man can look at the stars in the sky, but only the wise man connects them.
Devil's Pact B
Sorcery
Search your library for a card, put that card into your hand, then discard a card at random. Then shuffle your library. When you strike a deal with the Devil, he expects you to pay it back with your mind or your soul.
Ok, what I said was over the top. And I regret that.
So, Arcadeus, this is why I got so pissed off.
What you posted was, at least IMO, very different that what our discussion has led us so far. I felt like you were just skimming through the thread and then come up with something and say 'Hey! This one is the best!' without seeing things through that we have discussed passed that point or already drop that point from our consideration.
And sometimes I feel that in your post, there's a subliminal message saying 'I see these things through already. And this is the best path you guys should take.'. And that really pissed me off because it was outright looking down at the efforts we put in the discussion.
Arcadeus, please try to read all the posts and understand the ideas behind them. And please try to catch up with where we are now. And please stop speaking like you're the only one who sees things through and look down on us. I'm all ears to every post, but at least, please post in style.
If I'm right, so far people are in favor of White Cranial Extraction, black Mwonvuli Acid-Moss and green Annex and haven't commit much about the rest. I still stand firm that white Extirpate won't be as good as white Cranial Extraction. Would you mind explain to me why banning things with the target card in a graveyard makes more sense in terms of banning than announcing it and banning it completely beforehand. And for the joke about the emergancy banning of Memory Jar, it is, frankly, at least for me, a very bad joke.
Ok, now for the reason I came here. Albeit the ongoing discussions about blue shift, I cooked up the white, black, red and green shift for you guys to evaluate.
White
Some name
Some cost
Enchantment
Whenever a nonbasic permanent is put into an opponet's graveyard from play, search that player's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Something about 'You've got only one chance.'
Black
Some Name 2BB
Sacrifice any number of lands. For each land sacrificed this way, search your library for a Swamp card and put it into plat tapped. Shuffle your library afterward.
Something about turning your lands into Swamps. And it helps thin your deck, too.
Red Lodestone Power Field
Some cost
Enchantemnt - Aura
Enchant player
Some cost: The next time a source of your choice would deals damage this turn, that damage is dealt to enchanted player instead.
Edit
After some consideration, I think it would fit better to have the magnetic field 'pull in' damages only. That makes it feel more red. (Trying to damage the opponent.) And less wordy.
Green
As I proposed earlier Back to Nature
Instant 3G
Gain control of target token creature.
This is pulling the artificial being back to nature.
I hope we reach the agreement on blue soon. And please give some feedback for the cards above.
I'm sorry.....again.....I really need to work on my tact lol. I realize I may come off as overbearing sometimes, and I want you guys to know that I don't mean to, I'm just dropping suggestions like everyone else. Eh, know what.....I just don't feel like I'm contributing the way I should. You're right, Shiny. I don't have lot of time each day to post or help out, and when i do I'm usually too tired to think straight or i'm really rushed. I think I'll let you guys finish this task out without me. From now on, I'll only post if I'm not rushed or tired. And...if we go under the microscope for elimination...I'm gonna volunteer to be axed. Better I go than one of you guys. Besides, there's no prize as far as we know, so I really have no motivation to win at all. (I'm not a big fan of bragging rights hehe). I'll see you guys later...maybe...I think...
At any rate, this will be my last post for this round....I'm just gonna watch from now on...maybe I'll learn something.
<pulls chair back from circle and puts popcorn in the microwave>
well guys, I just got photoshop today, so when we're all done deciding our card's I'll render em up with state-of-the art quality. Even found the necessary text packs and stuff for it.
I mostly like Shiny's suggestions, but here are some revisions, including power tweaks and flavor:
White Single Out or Thoughtcrime - 2WW
Enchantment (r)
Whenever a nonbasic permanent is put into an opponet's graveyard from play, search that player's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Black Pollute -2BB
Sorcery (u?)
Sacrifice any number of lands. For each land sacrificed this way, search your library for a Swamp card and put it into play. Shuffle your library afterward.
I think that taking out "tapped" makes this much more interesting. Compare this to Gaea's Balance. Not having an upper limit on the number of lands might make this degenerate at the end of the game, but then again, Black has often had access to truly ludicrous amounts of B through cards like Coffers.
Red Magnetic Field - 3RRR
Enchantment - Aura (r)
Enchant player RRR: The next time target creature would deal damage this turn, that damage is dealt to enchanted player instead.
Even after restricting it to creatures, this is a huge effect, on par with Form of the Dragon if not stronger. Depending on more feedback, we may have to scale this down even further...my Homing Beacon is still on the table. In any case, we should do a creature for the red shift (Zealous Inquisitor or otherwise) for the red shift.
Green
As for your green suggestion, I think the idea of green getting to control tokens makes tons of sense, though the one you proposed is fairly weak. Aside from the occasional Wurm token, most of them are 1/1s and not worth 4 mana to deal with, even permanently. I also liked Arcadeus' idea of putting convoke on such an effect.
Back to Nature- 5GG
Instant
Convoke
Gain control of all token creatures. "Born of seed, born of sky, born of man, you are all born of me." - The Progenitor
or, we could do it as a creature
The Progenitor - 4GG
Legendary Creature - Avatar
Convoke
You control all token creatures. "Born of seed, born of sky, born of man, you are all born of me."
2/2
Blue
It's a shame that we haven't been able to come to any kind of consensus on this. But right now we have less than two days to finish, so we just need to pick something. The only finished pairs I see are my edict set and two-headed set, and Arcadeus' blocking set. Shiny has suggested something based on Kiku's Shadow or Rampant Growth, AoK suggested Wildfire and spreadingdark suggested Tortured Existence. There are some others floating around, too. I'm willing to go with any of these, provided we can illustrate them effectively. I've been looking for art all week, but I guess I don't have the same fantasy-art resources as some people on this thread.
I honestly think we should go with the blue concept that is best captured by whatever art we find.
I know I said I'd let you guys finish this one out without me, but I have some rather disturbing news.....The other team has already posted! Granted, I think our ideas are much better thought-out than theirs. We're a shoo-in to win, but I think We need to be safe with it and finish ASAP. We have tonight and tomorrow to finalize Blue, find art, and finalize renders. I think Rowsdower has successfully done what I (rather miserably) failed to do a couple posts ago-take our entire process into account and try to come up with something we could begin to finalize.
My votes lie as such:
White
-I think Rowsdower's Thoughtcrime Enchantment is almost perfect, but it feels a bit too powerful. Can we scale it back and it still be cool?
Blue
-I do have a personal bias toward my "messing with blockers" idea, but barring that, Rowsdower's 2-head creatures sound like the coolest things we could do. If we shift 2-Headed Dragon, the flavor could be written off as a pair of psychically linked Illusions or Elementals that fight together.
Black
-Pollute is AWESOME!!!!! It almost frightens me....As for our shift, I move that we shift Yavimaya Dryad. If we shift Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, it will feel like a "baby version" of Pollute, if Pollute is what we use. A shifted Yavimaya Dryad will help show the range that black land grab can reach and still feel like a black-style maneuver.
Red
I'm with Rowsdower that a creature is a good idea for a shift in red. If not Zealous Inquisitor, then perhaps something like Spirit en-Kor?
I think that something like Rowsdower's Homing Beacon or my Lodestone Armor is a good idea for our "new" red card. However, the newest version of Magnetic Field also shows something interesting. I vote for that one if we shift Zealous Inquisitor. Something that can turn the damage back on another player is what we need to do if our shift is creature-targeting.
Green
My shift vote still lies with Annex, and I'm sure you all know why by now...I know I've ranted enough about it. (many apologies)
Shiny, I vote for your idea for "new" mechanic, in the form of The Progenitor.
Ultimately, we should strive to show the range of the mechanics we choose, and not make two cards that feel alike or crazily similar.
Well, those are my opinions. I hope I pulled it off with more grace this time, and didn't offend anyone. I think that no matter what we pick, we'll have waaaaaaaaaaay better cards than the other team. They made some really safe choices that each of their colors sort of already has. (green double strike, blue artifact recursion, black raw card draw, white permanent-stealing, and red discard). Our choices are much bolder, much more creative, and much better-executed. Well, enough of my rambling. What does everyone else think about how we should finalize? Remember, we don't have a lot of time to bat stuff around. I think we should pick among what we already have and focus on tweaking it to perfection. In addition, the two or three of us with the best access to art should start searching now so we'll be ready for any outcome when we go to render. What do you guys think? Does that sound like the right course of action? Let's hear some of our trademark healthy discussion!
I like that a lot better than giving blue, the already-dominant control color, even more amazing control elements in the way of Rampant Growth or Stone Rain, or even worse, creature kill.
The reason I thought that Dominate fit right in with green is because green is the color of big-mana. The idea behind the card was not that you needed to spend enough mana to "overwhelm" the creature into coming to your control, but needed to be in-tune with the creature and spend enough mana to "tap-in" to the creature's wild side and reawaken that primal spark. Green Annex sounds pretty cool too, though it overlaps a bit with our black timeshift...
The name "Emergency Prohibition" is about a million times better than what I came up with, and it conveys perfectly the REASON it needs to be in a graveyard for the white mages to want to ban it. They've seen it once, they realize how powerful it is, and they put forth a law that makes it never cast again.
Cranial Extraction seems too proactive for this sort of reactionary methodology. You don't say "I think something is going to be too powerful so I'll ban it." unless you're WOTC and you just printed Memory Jar. You find out that something is too good, THEN you put up laws prohibiting it. Like, y'know, Prohibition in the States.
I'm glad Mwonvuli Acid-Moss in black makes as much sense to you guys as it did to me.
And lastly, Lodestone Pulse is cool, but "Lodestone" says "artifact" to me, not enchantment. That's what I was grappling with when I was coming up with a name for it, because it was very difficult to figure out a way to say "magnetism" without necessarily saying "artifact." However, the flavor text seems spot-on (and, btw, hilarious.)
That's my two cents for now. The only reason I want to rush this process is we need to base the second part of the cards off this decision, and I'd rather get started on our actual cards sooner rather than later.
Thanks to blurrycloud, who by the way, is a redonculous artist.
My other card is a Honden.
Winner of the May 2007 Card Creation League with Colossi Rusting Grounds
I can't believe it's not butter!
However, I have to go with Shiny on the Dominate thing. Green may be the color of "big mana," but it would still feel like "overpowering" the creature from a flavor goob's perspective. And while the need to "dial in" to the creature's animalistic side is a clever flavor write-off, it still feels like a bit of a stretch, even for WOtC's recent (shall we say loose?) flavor standards.
Annex and our black shift do seem similar in that they both could be said to be "taking hold" of a land. However, I tried to remedy that with both of their non-shifted counterparts. The non-shifted black one I came up with feels more like "making" a swamp than transforming one. Green Annex, as I said, is literally grabbing a land away from someone using a strengthened land-bonding ability. All mages can bond their power to a land, green's just better at it. Black "takes hold" of a land not by simply muscling it away, but by corrupting it. If the two still feel too similar, we could shift Yavimaya Dryad. The best part is that black would play it a bit differently than green would. While Dryad players would prefer to play her for their own mana accel, "Evil Dryad" would be used primarily for it's evasion in a Black Weenie deck. A false gift sounds like a pretty black-mage trick too, doesn't it?
Coming to the subject of Lodestones...yeah, it sound's a little artifact-esque. That's why the noun in the name of Lodestone Pulse is "Pulse." It refers to what the Enchantment actually is, the energy emitting from the rock. Besides, "lodestone" sounds more mystical and less technical (blue) than Magnetic Field. As for the Armor card, "rock armor" has long been an acceptable flavor of Aura. This one just happens to be made of magnetic rock. To make it more like the typical "rock armor" aura, we could make it pump the creature's toughness and/or power. That way, not only would the creature have a big fat target on his head, but you wouldn't have to worry about the creature dying so easily.
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
I also like Dominate over Control Magic for green for the above reasons. And I also thought that Yavimaya Dryad would make a great black card. However, the planeshifts are primarily about flavor, so I think we should fine tune the names, and even the base card, to the art now that we have concepts mostly hammered out. The art can't be tangentially related to the mechanics we are shifted: they need to scream them.
I think we have clear, strong concepts for everything but blue, and we need to start suggesting art. I want to see anything and everything that looks even remotely like:
White: Lots of people being rounded-up and arrested, police state, draconian politicians, mass executions, fascism, people being stripped of their identities, the iron fist of the law
Black: Decomposing corpses in a landscape, swaths of death in otherwise flourishing forests, Cadaverous Bloom 2, a creature that does these things
Red: Reroute2, Goblin Flectomancer 2, lots of junk flying at a creature's head, swords bending backwards and pointing at their owners, fields that mangle weapons and armor
Green: an aristocrat going berserk/mutating, a psychedelic trance, vestiges of a ruined civilization, parasitic insects that use your body, green werewolves, revolt
As for blue, the idea of a scholarly blue mage physically reshaping/reusing his spells appeals to me, though we need to have something that connects to the graveyard visually. What do dead spells look like? Maybe a blue wizard magically ripping individual pages out lots of different old, tattered books in a big pile? It could be something even more abstract, like the 9th Sift.
>combat abilities like haste, first strike, double strike, and trample
>power-only pumping
>messing with blockers
#3 seems the logical choice
Shift card possibilities
Convulsing Licid
Raging River
Anything that says "target creature can't block"
I kind of like the Raging River possibility, except renamed Dimension Barrier and instead of East and West, the choice is between Astral and Material.
Perhaps Chaosphere? Renamed Gravity Warp?
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
I agree that cranial extraction is a better choice than extirpate. The new card for white could be one that targets a permanent (obviously it'd have to be expensive).
I believe black Mwonwoli Acid Moss is a winner and red Aegis of Honor is excellent as well.
For Green I think a Binding Grasp would be more fitting. Or maybe Threads of Disloyalty. Or maybe Steal Artifact?
Finally for Blue "Land removal" I think it would be a lot more fitting Fallow Earth or *shivers* Plow Under
As far as Arcadeus' suggestions, I think we should put some more thought into combat related abilities as blue is the least combat-oriented and none of the other colors are getting them (though red can use damage redirection in combat).
Can't block is related to unblockability, which blue does get. But it's also a fairly narrow ability that doesn't see much play. I like the suggestion of Raging River in that it's a splashy, cool card, but it's kind of a rules-text nightmare, and doesn't really interact with flying in a pro-blue way. Chaosphere, despite having my all time favorite flavor text, is an outright flying-hoser, so it doesn't really make sense.
But there are other variants of this that red gets which could be interesting. Blue got Siren's Call before red did. And then there's two-headed-ness ala Goblin War Drums:
Double Vision - 2U
Enchantment
Each creature you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Tog! Hit the one on the left! Your left! Your other left!
Other names: Mirror Image, Confuse, Obfuscate
Easy to illustrate. Works with blue's imagecrafting and illusions. Makes flying even harder to deal with. I'll try to mock up some originals that play off this, but I think it has potential.
Twinning Homunculus - 1UU
Creature - Illusion (r)
Twinning Homunculus can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Whenever Twinning Homunculus attacks, put a token into play tapped and attacking that is a copy of it.
1/1
(Nacatl War-Pride and Chronozoa have different wordings regarding token copies, but this is templated off them. Could this be worded to "put a tapped and attacking token copy of it into play"?)
When Twinning Homunculus attacks, you may remove it from the game. If you do, put two 1/1 blue illusion creature tokens into play tapped and attacking.
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
That's exactly what I'm going for. I like the way the two-headedness and the doubling play off each other. Because you need two creatures to kill it in combat and you can get a lot of copies quickly, it can act as a finisher. But at the end of the day, they're just 1/1s.
I forgot that WotC now prefers Persuasion over Control Magic.
Follow Earth or Plow Under would be too similar to blue cards that put creatures or land on top of library, see Temporal Eddy, Spin into Myth, Time Ebb.
My suggestion is that blue could also do damage in a certain way. (Psionic Blast wouldn't count, since it was timeshifted.)
Mental Breakdown
UU
Target creature deals damage to itself equal to its power.
Are you guys interested in red Pariah? Makes a creature magnetic and shunts all damage to it.
Lodestone Infusion
2R
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature.
All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead.
Thanks to blurrycloud, who by the way, is a redonculous artist.
My other card is a Honden.
Winner of the May 2007 Card Creation League with Colossi Rusting Grounds
I can't believe it's not butter!
So maybe we move blue to terraforming?
Thanks to blurrycloud, who by the way, is a redonculous artist.
My other card is a Honden.
Winner of the May 2007 Card Creation League with Colossi Rusting Grounds
I can't believe it's not butter!
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
Tidal Surge 4UU
Sorcery
Each player sacrifices four lands and Tidal Surge deals four damage to each creature without flying.
(no flavor text, cause it's too early in the morning for my mind to work :p)
A colorshifted Wildfire, doable by blue. Throw enough water on land, and it goes away...and it could certainly "drown" a bunch of nonflying creatures.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
If we're looking for "twinning" abilities to copy over to Blue from Red, we could always use the original, though Goblin War Drums seems neat to shift over too. For a really old card, False Orders has a very interesting effect, too.
Another thing that Red gets that has been suggested for Blue was artifact destruction. Smash as "tinkering too much to learn" seemed like a neat idea.
Blue creature destruction could be done, but we would need to find an existing card that could be switched to Blue and not be too good.
Lastly, something Red does that nobody else tends to do is flip coins. Blue is not the color of chaos, but taking calculated risks is certainly Blue, and there are certain coin flipping cards that don't particularly matter whether or not you win or lose the flip. Winter Sky, Puppet's Verdict, and Molten Sentry, for example, can be beneficial either way. I personally think that Molten Sentry or Winter Sky could easily be shifted into blue with the right flavor.
Thanks to blurrycloud, who by the way, is a redonculous artist.
My other card is a Honden.
Winner of the May 2007 Card Creation League with Colossi Rusting Grounds
I can't believe it's not butter!
This was my first suggestion for blue, so I'm on board with that idea.
We are getting closer to the deadline. We need to just pick something that makes sense in color and that we can get across flavor-wise. Power-level and metagame concerns are secondary. We still need to come up with most of the originals, so let's get to work.
If people prefer the two-headedness, here's a redo on my homunculus, as the first one would start multiplying too quickly. I was thinking of giving it haste like Bonded Fetch...thoughts?:
Twinning Homunculus - :1mana::symu::symu:
Creature - Homunculus (r)
Twinning Homunculus can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Whenever Twinning Homunculus deals combat damage to an opponent, put a token into play that is a copy of it.
1/1
For the green original, I was thinking about Burning Tree Shaman and whether there might be meat on the activated ability bone.
Animal Farm - 2GG
http://fantastic.library.cornell.edu/imagerecord_l.php?record=198
Enchantment
Your opponents may not play activated abilities of creatures they control. You may play activated abilities of creatures you don't control (as if you were their controller?).
I just found that Cornell archive of old fantasy images. Pretty interesting stuff, if not particularly useful.
The only fitting card I could think of is Two-Headed Dragon. Then we would have to come up with a way to justify firebreathing.
I wouldn't go against it if the agreement would be blue two-headedness. But I still think that blue Rampant Growth or blue Kiku's Shadow is a very nice choice.
And red Pariah is cooler that red Aegis of Honor for me.
Due to the upcoming deadline, I think I'll be working on the new cards for the colors that we have reached the agreement. White 'remove all copies', black 'swampification', red 'magnetic attraction', and green 'control'.
If you guys are happy with Back to Nature, I would carve it into the final version.
OK, let me see...
I think if we're really that divided over white Extirpate vs white Cranial Extraction, we could do this: Shift one and make our new card functionally similar. I think Extirpate-renamed-Emergency Ban makes the most sense as a shift to white. Besides, I'd love to be able to find a way to poke fun at Memory Jar with this one somehow. That is the one Wizards "emergency banned" isn't it? We can make a "Cranial Extraction creature" to complement it. How about...
Thought Police
2WW
Creature-Human Wizard Soldier
When Thought Police comes into play name a card.
2W,:symtap::Target player reveals his or her hand. Remove all copies of the named card in that player's hand from the game.
1W,:symtap::Counter target activated or triggered ability of a card with that name.
2/2
Functionally similar to Cranial Extraction in that it can hose one card completely, but done in a much more white-style way, even down to it's ability to counter abilities of cards. Granted, it's easier to stop than Cranial Extraction, but we're being judged on design, not format effectiveness or whatever. The name is just a playtest name, by the way. If the name and creature types would be better off as something else. At least this way everyone's happy.
I see we're still on the fence about blue. Blue destruction, I'll admit, is a bit of a stretch and something blue really shouldn't be able to do. That's why we tried to come up with other red things blue could do. The best option so far feels like messing with who can block. For this, shifting False Orders (and renaming it something like Focus Shift) sounded like a really cool idea. Not only does it sound like a crafty blue-like tactic (mind-controlling a creature to block who you want it to), but much like Balduvian Warlord, only a blue brain can understand it lol. Our original card could be something much simpler: a creature that can't block, but done in a blue way.
Synapse Snapper
1U
Creature-Illusion
Synapse Snapper is unblockable
Synapse Snapper can't block.
"Some thoughts are dangerous."
1/1
It is a creature made of psychic energy. Being made only of thought, it can't interact with normal creatures. It kind of plays out like a ramped up form of the shadow ability. It's a creature that can only attack on a mental/astral level.
The connection is that red is able to affect a creature's ability to block (either by taking away a creature's ability to block or by making creatures that themselves cannot block), and that's what we wanted to shift to blue.
Black, red, and green shifts aren't really in contention.
Okay, I'm gonna get kinda serious here. I think we need to agree on something quickly. I know that by the time most of you read this, we'll still have two or three days to finish, but I figure we'll need a day or two to scrounge up good art and fix any final tweaks before we render. To that end, I submit the following cards for your approval. I think these cards bring together the best of what we've come up with so far.
Emergency Ban
W
Instant
Split Second
Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
"For such a thing to be seen again would spell disaster. We must act quickly and decisively to ensure that it remains lost."
Thought Police
2WW
Creature-Human Wizard Soldier
When Thought Police comes into play name a card.
2W,:symtap::Target player reveals his or her hand. Remove all copies of the named card in that player's hand from the game.
1W,:symtap::Counter target activated or triggered ability of a card with that name.
2/2
Focus Shift
U
Instant
Play Focus Shift only during the declare blockers step.
Target creature defending player controls is removed from combat. Creatures that creature had been blocking this combat are considered unblocked if no other creatures are blocking them. You may have the creature block an attacking creature of your choice.
Synapse Snapper
1U
Creature-Illusion
Synapse Snapper is unblockable
Synapse Snapper can't block.
"Some thoughts are dangerous."
1/1
Rotspreader
1BB
Creature-Zombie
Swampwalk.
When Rotpreader comes into play, you may search your library for a Swamp card and put it into play tapped under target player's control. If you do, shuffle your library.
2/1
The foulest hearts always corrupt those unfortunate places they wish to call home.
Filthseeding
Sorcery
4BB
Search your library for up to three swamp cards and put them into play tapped.
Fleshdelve (You may remove any number of creature cards in your graveyard from the game as you play this spell. It costs less to play for each card removed this way.)
When they can't expand their diseased territories fast enough, Urborg's armies pile their fallen in pits to accelerate the seepage of miasma into the soil.
Repulsor-Staff Shaman
2R
Creature-Goblin Shaman
1R:The next 1 damage that would be dealt to Repulsor-Staff this turn is dealt to target creature instead.
2/2
"The only reason those goblins even know lodestones can repel is because one of them put the blasted thing in his staff upside-down!"
Lodestone Armor
1R
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +0/+3.
All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature.
"This armor makes me attractive, but sadly it's only to pointy things."
Forcebond
2GG
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant land
You control enchanted land.
"I have spent my life listening to the land. Should I ask, it will return the favor"
Voice of the Wilderness
3GG
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant creature
Convoke
You control enchanted creature and it becomes green.
In every heart lies something of the wild. To call to that part is to bring the creature home.
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
Overhaul 2U
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play ~, sacrifice an artifact.
Return target artifact card from your graveyard to play.
The legacy of the Thran are prepared for an grand encore.
AKA Trash for Treasure
The thing I like about cycles are the fact that it can make seemingly simple thing's into something unique. I think it was an old proverb that said, any man can look at the stars in the sky, but only the wise man connects them.
Devil's Pact B
Sorcery
Search your library for a card, put that card into your hand, then discard a card at random. Then shuffle your library.
When you strike a deal with the Devil, he expects you to pay it back with your mind or your soul.
AKA Gamble
BTW I'm a fanatic of Emergency Ban and Force Bond for sure, but I'll add some stuff for the other colors later.
Please tell me what you think
Ok, what I said was over the top. And I regret that.
So, Arcadeus, this is why I got so pissed off.
What you posted was, at least IMO, very different that what our discussion has led us so far. I felt like you were just skimming through the thread and then come up with something and say 'Hey! This one is the best!' without seeing things through that we have discussed passed that point or already drop that point from our consideration.
And sometimes I feel that in your post, there's a subliminal message saying 'I see these things through already. And this is the best path you guys should take.'. And that really pissed me off because it was outright looking down at the efforts we put in the discussion.
Arcadeus, please try to read all the posts and understand the ideas behind them. And please try to catch up with where we are now. And please stop speaking like you're the only one who sees things through and look down on us. I'm all ears to every post, but at least, please post in style.
If I'm right, so far people are in favor of White Cranial Extraction, black Mwonvuli Acid-Moss and green Annex and haven't commit much about the rest. I still stand firm that white Extirpate won't be as good as white Cranial Extraction. Would you mind explain to me why banning things with the target card in a graveyard makes more sense in terms of banning than announcing it and banning it completely beforehand. And for the joke about the emergancy banning of Memory Jar, it is, frankly, at least for me, a very bad joke.
Ok, now for the reason I came here. Albeit the ongoing discussions about blue shift, I cooked up the white, black, red and green shift for you guys to evaluate.
White
Some name
Some cost
Enchantment
Whenever a nonbasic permanent is put into an opponet's graveyard from play, search that player's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Something about 'You've got only one chance.'
Black
Some Name
2BB
Sacrifice any number of lands. For each land sacrificed this way, search your library for a Swamp card and put it into plat tapped. Shuffle your library afterward.
Something about turning your lands into Swamps. And it helps thin your deck, too.
Red
Lodestone Power Field
Some cost
Enchantemnt - Aura
Enchant player
Some cost: The next time a source of your choice would deals damage this turn, that damage is dealt to enchanted player instead.
Edit
After some consideration, I think it would fit better to have the magnetic field 'pull in' damages only. That makes it feel more red. (Trying to damage the opponent.) And less wordy.
Green
As I proposed earlier
Back to Nature
Instant
3G
Gain control of target token creature.
This is pulling the artificial being back to nature.
I hope we reach the agreement on blue soon. And please give some feedback for the cards above.
At any rate, this will be my last post for this round....I'm just gonna watch from now on...maybe I'll learn something.
<pulls chair back from circle and puts popcorn in the microwave>
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
One thing is true, people come here for fun, and it seems like I just spoiled it, at least to a degree.
The only thing I hope for now is that we finish the task. I already gave my proposal. And I need the team's feedback before I can move on.
White
Single Out or Thoughtcrime - 2WW
Enchantment (r)
Whenever a nonbasic permanent is put into an opponet's graveyard from play, search that player's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Black
Pollute -2BB
Sorcery (u?)
Sacrifice any number of lands. For each land sacrificed this way, search your library for a Swamp card and put it into play. Shuffle your library afterward.
I think that taking out "tapped" makes this much more interesting. Compare this to Gaea's Balance. Not having an upper limit on the number of lands might make this degenerate at the end of the game, but then again, Black has often had access to truly ludicrous amounts of B through cards like Coffers.
Red
Magnetic Field - 3RRR
Enchantment - Aura (r)
Enchant player
RRR: The next time target creature would deal damage this turn, that damage is dealt to enchanted player instead.
Even after restricting it to creatures, this is a huge effect, on par with Form of the Dragon if not stronger. Depending on more feedback, we may have to scale this down even further...my Homing Beacon is still on the table. In any case, we should do a creature for the red shift (Zealous Inquisitor or otherwise) for the red shift.
Green
As for your green suggestion, I think the idea of green getting to control tokens makes tons of sense, though the one you proposed is fairly weak. Aside from the occasional Wurm token, most of them are 1/1s and not worth 4 mana to deal with, even permanently. I also liked Arcadeus' idea of putting convoke on such an effect.
Back to Nature- 5GG
Instant
Convoke
Gain control of all token creatures.
"Born of seed, born of sky, born of man, you are all born of me." - The Progenitor
or, we could do it as a creature
The Progenitor - 4GG
Legendary Creature - Avatar
Convoke
You control all token creatures.
"Born of seed, born of sky, born of man, you are all born of me."
2/2
Blue
It's a shame that we haven't been able to come to any kind of consensus on this. But right now we have less than two days to finish, so we just need to pick something. The only finished pairs I see are my edict set and two-headed set, and Arcadeus' blocking set. Shiny has suggested something based on Kiku's Shadow or Rampant Growth, AoK suggested Wildfire and spreadingdark suggested Tortured Existence. There are some others floating around, too. I'm willing to go with any of these, provided we can illustrate them effectively. I've been looking for art all week, but I guess I don't have the same fantasy-art resources as some people on this thread.
I honestly think we should go with the blue concept that is best captured by whatever art we find.
My votes lie as such:
White
-I think Rowsdower's Thoughtcrime Enchantment is almost perfect, but it feels a bit too powerful. Can we scale it back and it still be cool?
Blue
-I do have a personal bias toward my "messing with blockers" idea, but barring that, Rowsdower's 2-head creatures sound like the coolest things we could do. If we shift 2-Headed Dragon, the flavor could be written off as a pair of psychically linked Illusions or Elementals that fight together.
Black
-Pollute is AWESOME!!!!! It almost frightens me....As for our shift, I move that we shift Yavimaya Dryad. If we shift Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, it will feel like a "baby version" of Pollute, if Pollute is what we use. A shifted Yavimaya Dryad will help show the range that black land grab can reach and still feel like a black-style maneuver.
Red
I'm with Rowsdower that a creature is a good idea for a shift in red. If not Zealous Inquisitor, then perhaps something like Spirit en-Kor?
I think that something like Rowsdower's Homing Beacon or my Lodestone Armor is a good idea for our "new" red card. However, the newest version of Magnetic Field also shows something interesting. I vote for that one if we shift Zealous Inquisitor. Something that can turn the damage back on another player is what we need to do if our shift is creature-targeting.
Green
My shift vote still lies with Annex, and I'm sure you all know why by now...I know I've ranted enough about it. (many apologies)
Shiny, I vote for your idea for "new" mechanic, in the form of The Progenitor.
Ultimately, we should strive to show the range of the mechanics we choose, and not make two cards that feel alike or crazily similar.
Well, those are my opinions. I hope I pulled it off with more grace this time, and didn't offend anyone. I think that no matter what we pick, we'll have waaaaaaaaaaay better cards than the other team. They made some really safe choices that each of their colors sort of already has. (green double strike, blue artifact recursion, black raw card draw, white permanent-stealing, and red discard). Our choices are much bolder, much more creative, and much better-executed. Well, enough of my rambling. What does everyone else think about how we should finalize? Remember, we don't have a lot of time to bat stuff around. I think we should pick among what we already have and focus on tweaking it to perfection. In addition, the two or three of us with the best access to art should start searching now so we'll be ready for any outcome when we go to render. What do you guys think? Does that sound like the right course of action? Let's hear some of our trademark healthy discussion!
1-2-3! Infinite Storm Count FTW!!!!!
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