Daisy Lotus3
Artifact
Daisy Lotus enters the battlefield with six charge counters. T, Remove a charge counter from Daisy Lotus: Create a treasure token named Lotus Petal. Loves me not.
Daisy is a weak flower to guide this off of. It doesn't have the pop and appeal you want it to have.
Poppy Lotus would be better, but still a weak example.
Daffodil (Narcissus) would be best.
If you presented this to me, I would first say there's nothing inherently wrong with it, but it's not quite as interactive as it wants to be. It's the boring same-old, same-old. Then I would suggest trying to meld something of an Earthcraft into the mana ability, which would also enable you to drop the cost to 2, and hype its competitive play value.
I would question if you could cost it at 0 even, which is really what anything mox or lotus wants. Maybe drop the charge counters down if needed.
Narcissus Lotus0 Artifact
Narcissus Lotus enters the battlefield with three petal counters on it.
Tap an untapped creature you control, remove a petal counter from Narcissus Lotus: Create a treasure token. Then exile Narcissus Lotus if there are no petal counters on it. She loves me not...that's why one of us has to die...but it should be me.
One Lotus Petal costs 0. Something that makes them has to cost more. I think it's fairly costed, in the vein of Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, and the many other 3 cost artifacts that tap for one mana of any color with a small bonus.
I think it could cost 2 and either etb tapped or create tapped treasure tokens.
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pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
A more limited but stronger coalition relic is an interestint design. The flavor is a 10/10 for those who ger it but as evidenced by the response this isn't the type who get it. Though if you change any part the whole design falls apart so you have to simply enlighten those who don't get it. While fine for all larger formats its a tad concerning for standard though any alteration to alleviate that fear would make it unplayable elsewhere. I don't recall. Was Coalition Relic played in its standard run? If not then this is fine.
A more limited but stronger coalition relic is an interestint design. The flavor is a 10/10 for those who ger it but as evidenced by the response this isn't the type who get it. Though if you change any part the whole design falls apart so you have to simply enlighten those who don't get it. While fine for all larger formats its a tad concerning for standard though any alteration to alleviate that fear would make it unplayable elsewhere. I don't recall. Was Coalition Relic played in its standard run? If not then this is fine.
In my opinion, the issue with the card as written is creating lotus petal tokens. This probably wouldn't be viable in a standard set due to the rules of the copied card. You would need to have an explanation of what the token does. This is more likely to see print in a masters or commander set. They tried to have other tokens with Tezzeret the Schemer creating "Etherium Cell" and never used it again once. Also see King Macar, the Gold-Cursed with "Gold" tokens that were used on 3 cards in standard.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
In my opinion, the issue with the card as written is creating lotus petal tokens. This probably wouldn't be viable in a standard set due to the rules of the copied card. You would need to have an explanation of what the token does. This is more likely to see print in a masters or commander set. They tried to have other tokens with Tezzeret the Schemer creating "Etherium Cell" and never used it again once. Also see King Macar, the Gold-Cursed with "Gold" tokens that were used on 3 cards in standard.
Tokens names after existing cards are just fine for standard sets, see Llanowar Mentor and its cycle.
Balance wise, this is stronger than your usual 3 mv mana rock because you can bank the mana for future turns and trigger artifact synergies with the tokens. Its not busted, but not a common either.
The "plucking daisy" reference took me a sec, but its a fun flavor.
A more limited but stronger coalition relic is an interestint design. The flavor is a 10/10 for those who ger it but as evidenced by the response this isn't the type who get it. Though if you change any part the whole design falls apart so you have to simply enlighten those who don't get it. While fine for all larger formats its a tad concerning for standard though any alteration to alleviate that fear would make it unplayable elsewhere. I don't recall. Was Coalition Relic played in its standard run? If not then this is fine.
Coalition Relic saw loads of play - the jump from 3 mana to six (with a land drop) is very strong. For that reason, I might have it enter tapped like Pokerkingdave recommends. I wouldn't reduce the cost, though, it's fair at three mana.
My only other thought was reducing the number of counters to 5 - a flavour thing, so it's one for each colour in Magic, which you could reference in the art.
I personally have no issues with the name of the tokens, save that it might limit it to a more retro-feeling set - a Brothers' War or Masters-type thing. I like the flavour.
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"Did you think to kill me? There's no flesh and blood within this cloak to kill. There is only an idea. Ideas are bulletproof." - V, V for Vendetta. Alan Moore
In my opinion, the issue with the card as written is creating lotus petal tokens.
They are specifically Treasure tokens with the name Lotus Petal. So they might actually have the same mana ability twice, because Treasures have a built in mana ability, but I don't think that's really gonna cause a lot of problems or confusion. The sidegrade of course is that these tokens also have a cardname, for cards that ask you to name one.
In my opinion, the issue with the card as written is creating lotus petal tokens.
They are specifically Treasure tokens with the name Lotus Petal. So they might actually have the same mana ability twice, because Treasures have a built in mana ability, but I don't think that's really gonna cause a lot of problems or confusion. The sidegrade of course is that these tokens also have a cardname, for cards that ask you to name one.
The would not have an extra mana ability, you templated it correctly. Treasure token has an inherent game definition and your ability just adds the name Lotus Petal on top of it. Compare to Llanowar Mentor that has to define its token's mana ability even though it has the same name as Llanowar Elves.
In my opinion, the issue with the card as written is creating lotus petal tokens. This probably wouldn't be viable in a standard set due to the rules of the copied card. You would need to have an explanation of what the token does. This is more likely to see print in a masters or commander set. They tried to have other tokens with Tezzeret the Schemer creating "Etherium Cell" and never used it again once. Also see King Macar, the Gold-Cursed with "Gold" tokens that were used on 3 cards in standard.
Tokens names after existing cards are just fine for standard sets, see Llanowar Mentor and its cycle.
Balance wise, this is stronger than your usual 3 mv mana rock because you can bank the mana for future turns and trigger artifact synergies with the tokens. Its not busted, but not a common either.
The "plucking daisy" reference took me a sec, but its a fun flavor.
Regarding token names, that was back in time spiral. I don’t think they do this anymore, with pack rat being an exception.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Ah. If you wanted to create a literal Lotus Petal onto the battlefield, you'd have to say, "Create a token copy of Lotus Petal." I'm still trying to wrap my brain around just how Garth One-Eye works, but I think I've got it now. The word copy is important
I think it's stronger than the similar Sphere of the Suns because you can save up the Treasure counters (admittedly they can also get destroyed, but who's Disenchanting treasures, right?). I think more counters for Daisy Lotus justifies costing 1 more, but I still think it should enter tapped.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Did you think to kill me? There's no flesh and blood within this cloak to kill. There is only an idea. Ideas are bulletproof." - V, V for Vendetta. Alan Moore
I think it's stronger than the similar Sphere of the Suns because you can save up the Treasure counters (admittedly they can also get destroyed, but who's Disenchanting treasures, right?). I think more counters for Daisy Lotus justifies costing 1 more, but I still think it should enter tapped.
Well it's a Coalition Relic analog and I like the 3 cmc rocks to grant you six mana on a four land turn 4. I think it's fine that the real version enters tapped and all, still seems like a good card.
Tapped treasures is design space that makes stuff like Echoing Ruin or Culling Ritual better. Mostly it just slows down the treasure player a little bit though.
Artifact
Daisy Lotus enters the battlefield with six charge counters.
T, Remove a charge counter from Daisy Lotus: Create a treasure token named Lotus Petal.
Loves me not.
Poppy Lotus would be better, but still a weak example.
Daffodil (Narcissus) would be best.
If you presented this to me, I would first say there's nothing inherently wrong with it, but it's not quite as interactive as it wants to be. It's the boring same-old, same-old. Then I would suggest trying to meld something of an Earthcraft into the mana ability, which would also enable you to drop the cost to 2, and hype its competitive play value.
I would question if you could cost it at 0 even, which is really what anything mox or lotus wants. Maybe drop the charge counters down if needed.
Narcissus Lotus 0
Artifact
Narcissus Lotus enters the battlefield with three petal counters on it.
Tap an untapped creature you control, remove a petal counter from Narcissus Lotus: Create a treasure token. Then exile Narcissus Lotus if there are no petal counters on it.
She loves me not...that's why one of us has to die...but it should be me.
Alt. Flavor Text Pair
She loves me...but by any means?
She loves me not...but at what cost?
Maybe swap the endings on those?
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
In my opinion, the issue with the card as written is creating lotus petal tokens. This probably wouldn't be viable in a standard set due to the rules of the copied card. You would need to have an explanation of what the token does. This is more likely to see print in a masters or commander set. They tried to have other tokens with Tezzeret the Schemer creating "Etherium Cell" and never used it again once. Also see King Macar, the Gold-Cursed with "Gold" tokens that were used on 3 cards in standard.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Tokens names after existing cards are just fine for standard sets, see Llanowar Mentor and its cycle.
Balance wise, this is stronger than your usual 3 mv mana rock because you can bank the mana for future turns and trigger artifact synergies with the tokens. Its not busted, but not a common either.
The "plucking daisy" reference took me a sec, but its a fun flavor.
Coalition Relic saw loads of play - the jump from 3 mana to six (with a land drop) is very strong. For that reason, I might have it enter tapped like Pokerkingdave recommends. I wouldn't reduce the cost, though, it's fair at three mana.
My only other thought was reducing the number of counters to 5 - a flavour thing, so it's one for each colour in Magic, which you could reference in the art.
I personally have no issues with the name of the tokens, save that it might limit it to a more retro-feeling set - a Brothers' War or Masters-type thing. I like the flavour.
They are specifically Treasure tokens with the name Lotus Petal. So they might actually have the same mana ability twice, because Treasures have a built in mana ability, but I don't think that's really gonna cause a lot of problems or confusion. The sidegrade of course is that these tokens also have a cardname, for cards that ask you to name one.
The would not have an extra mana ability, you templated it correctly. Treasure token has an inherent game definition and your ability just adds the name Lotus Petal on top of it. Compare to Llanowar Mentor that has to define its token's mana ability even though it has the same name as Llanowar Elves.
Regarding token names, that was back in time spiral. I don’t think they do this anymore, with pack rat being an exception.
edit.. they did this with a few kaldheim cards
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I think it's stronger than the similar Sphere of the Suns because you can save up the Treasure counters (admittedly they can also get destroyed, but who's Disenchanting treasures, right?). I think more counters for Daisy Lotus justifies costing 1 more, but I still think it should enter tapped.
Well it's a Coalition Relic analog and I like the 3 cmc rocks to grant you six mana on a four land turn 4. I think it's fine that the real version enters tapped and all, still seems like a good card.
Tapped treasures is design space that makes stuff like Echoing Ruin or Culling Ritual better. Mostly it just slows down the treasure player a little bit though.