The set has artifact and graveyard themes, and to help keep the flow of sacrificial artifacts going, I have created a new artifact subtype- Explosives. An explosive is usually a token, always an artifact, and always has "2, T, Sacrifice this artifact: It deals 1 damage to any target."
Similar to food and treasure tokens, cards will instruct players to create Explosive tokens. Most of the them will be in black or red, although I don't think a few situational ones in white would be too much of a bend.
Examples of cards using this mechanic:
Mine the Minefields 1R
Sorcery (Common)
Create an explosive token, then add C for each explosive you control. (An explosive is a colorless artifact with "2, t, Sacrifice this artifact: This deals 1 damage to any target")
Biological Assault 1BB
Instant (Uncommon)
~ costs B less to cast if you control three or more explosives.
Destroy target creature. Create an explosive token.
Cluster Grenade R
Artifact (Uncommon) 2, T, Sacrifice ~: ~ Deals 1 damage to any target. 4RR, Exile this card from your hand or graveyard: Create three explosive tokens. Until end of turn, activated abilities of explosives you control cost 2 to activate.
Nullzone Scrapper 3BR
Creature - Dwarf Artificer (Rare)
Deathtouch
When Nullzone Scrapper enters the battlefield, create an explosive token.
At the beginning of your end step, if you sacrificed one or more explosives this turn, Nullzone Scrapper deals 1 damage to any target.
5/3
Looking for precedent, there is one card that does something similar, Goblin Kaboomist.
It does push into a different play space than clues and food did, so that's a plus. Your ability is definitely Red and not a big bend for Black, but it doesn't fit in white if it can hit players. If you do plan for it to show up in more than just RB, it needs to be 3 to activate instead of 2, and not mana efficient to create in Blue or Green (like how food didn't show up in red and barely in blue)
Looking for precedent, there is one card that does something similar, Goblin Kaboomist.
It does push into a different play space than clues and food did, so that's a plus. Your ability is definitely Red and not a big bend for Black, but it doesn't fit in white if it can hit players. If you do plan for it to show up in more than just RB, it needs to be 3 to activate instead of 2, and not mana efficient to create in Blue or Green (like how food didn't show up in red and barely in blue)
It would likely be limited to red and black, and scaled mostly for limited play. My ideas for white were mostly defensive in natute, and I haven'treally even designed any that I liked. I don't think it fits on mono blue or mono green cards in any satisfying way
I agree that it would be quite the order to make a green one. Reason being is green is nature. That pretty much is the opposite of engineering. Think about how green interacts with artifacts in general to get the idea here.
Only one I can see here is a multicolor card that destroys an artifact and creates one of these. Kinda like the byproduct of the destruction.
I don't see how white can have these as written since yes it can hit players. BUT then again the military is basically red white. Boros. So if made as a multicolor card I can see it being done. Like when you are attacked you can create 1 for each creature that attacked you or something like similar. That would probably be a creature that is in theory is suppose to make them to protect you bit you know... Explosives do have other applications.
Blue could make them as it is the artifact color. I can see them making them as experiments. But only in short numbers as it doesn't flow with what they are trying to do. Look at it like this, gun powder was created before rockets. They are probably the ones that would discover how to make gun powder. Through research and trial and error. I'd say blue could have 1 or 2 of these at max in the whole block or series or whatever.
I agree that it would be quite the order to make a green one. Reason being is green is nature. That pretty much is the opposite of engineering. Think about how green interacts with artifacts in general to get the idea here.
Only one I can see here is a multicolor card that destroys an artifact and creates one of these. Kinda like the byproduct of the destruction.
I don't see how white can have these as written since yes it can hit players. BUT then again the military is basically red white. Boros. So if made as a multicolor card I can see it being done. Like when you are attacked you can create 1 for each creature that attacked you or something like similar. That would probably be a creature that is in theory is suppose to make them to protect you bit you know... Explosives do have other applications.
Blue could make them as it is the artifact color. I can see them making them as experiments. But only in short numbers as it doesn't flow with what they are trying to do. Look at it like this, gun powder was created before rockets. They are probably the ones that would discover how to make gun powder. Through research and trial and error. I'd say blue could have 1 or 2 of these at max in the whole block or series or whatever.
Yeah probably not making any green ones, multicolor or not. Green gets to play another area of the design of the set, so it isn't missing much from this.
Blue is interesting, because while it is the color of making artifacts, the direct damage is a break in blue more than any other color.
White would only receive the most defensive of explosive token generation. The direct damage to a player is a severe bend in white, but it doesn't undercut an intentional weakness of the color the way it would in blue or green.
Not that I am likely to out white cards in the set that make explosive tokens, but if I did need a third color to get them, it would probably be white.
I agree with most of that. Only thing I see that I would slightly tweek is blue does have access to burn. Psionic blast. So it's not completely out of the color pie. I get the concept that they are using a different form of energy to injury something, but they are doing direct damage none the less. Other colors do it way better and more often though. So I'd say if you made an overcosted version that blue could use it. Something like
Blast of Inspiration 2UU (uncommon)
Sorcery
Create 2 explosive tokens then scry X, where X is equal to the number of artifacts you control.
I agree with most of that. Only thing I see that I would slightly tweek is blue does have access to burn. Psionic blast. So it's not completely out of the color pie. I get the concept that they are using a different form of energy to injury something, but they are doing direct damage none the less. Other colors do it way better and more often though. So I'd say if you made an overcosted version that blue could use it. Something like
Blast of Inspiration 2UU (uncommon)
Sorcery
Create 2 explosive tokens then scry X, where X is equal to the number of artifacts you control.
Cards from Alpha are not a precedent for what things are in each colors slice of the pie. Psionic Blast is a well known break.
If only that was the case. If so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have reprinted it and made it old extended and modern legal. Not to mention standard playable in time spiral. You know recentish times where the color pie was well determined. Ijs
If only that was the case. If so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have reprinted it and made it old extended and modern legal. Not to mention standard playable in time spiral. You know recentish times where the color pie was well determined. Ijs
It was a Timeshifted card. Those were intentionally picked to be cards that would not be printed under the modern card philosophy, for the most part. Icatian Javelineers isn't really in the pie either, and it was also in the same exact situation. If anything, it is closer to an explosive than Psionic Blast, but we've both agreed that Explosives don't fit in white.
Is 14 years and 4 days ago really that recent in a game that has existed for 27 years? It's just over half the game's existence ago.
That's why I said recentish. It's in the modern card pool. By definition that kinda says it's a modern card.
But by your logic they intentionally put in older cards and those cards should then be not mentioned or spoken about? Am I understanding you correctly?
It's been said that Blood moon was a mistake to be in 8th and 9th editions. Should we just not play it either?
That's why I said recentish. It's in the modern card pool. By definition that kinda says it's a modern card.
But by your logic they intentionally put in older cards and those cards should then be not mentioned or spoken about? Am I understanding you correctly?
It's been said that Bloodmoon was a mistake to be in 8th and 9th editions. Should we just not play it either?
I didn't say they shouldn't be spoken about, I said that they were intentionally examples of the kinds of cards that don't fit the modern design philosophy. That block also has Planar Chaos, a well known set for having cards that don't fit the color pie. In fact, that was the theme there. They're fine to talk about, but most of them are not good examples of the color pie. See also Hornet Sting
Edit: Also, Modern is the name of the format. Vintage legal cards have nothing to do with wine and Legacy legal cards aren't hand me downs from an ancestor. It's just a name.
Green has Unyaro Bee Sting, Storm Seeker, Unyaro Bees, Hornet Sting. Probably more. These aren't even taking into consideration of the Hurricane type spells.
And yes I get that Maro says it was a mistake. Also said Wild Mongrel was a mistake... But never got banned. Then years later made Tarmogoyf. An even better beater. I'm sorry but I can't or won't just forget about multiple cards just because. They exist and only through either time control or bannings should they not be mentioned.
If only that was the case. If so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have reprinted it and made it old extended and modern legal. Not to mention standard playable in time spiral. You know recentish times where the color pie was well determined. Ijs
It was a Timeshifted card. Those were intentionally picked to be cards that would not be printed under the modern card philosophy, for the most part. Icatian Javelineers isn't really in the pie either, and it was also in the same exact situation. If anything, it is closer to an explosive than Psionic Blast, but we've both agreed that Explosives don't fit in white.
Is 14 years and 4 days ago really that recent in a game that has existed for 27 years? It's just over half the game's existence ago.
We didn't agree that explosives shouldn't be in white. I said they can exist as in a military style as Boros is the military of Rav. And I agreed it would be a bend but not a break. That the 3rd color should be white if there is a third color. Come on Charisays, feels like you are disagreeing just to do it at this point. 🙄
Green has Unyaro Bee Sting, Storm Seeker, Unyaro Bees, Hornet Sting. Probably more. These aren't even taking into consideration of the Hurricane type spells.
And yes I get that Maro says it was a mistake. Also said Wild Mongrel was a mistake... But never got banned. Then years later made Tarmogoyf. An even better beater. I'm sorry but I can't or won't just forget about multiple cards just because. They exist and only through either time control or bannings should they not be mentioned.
If only that was the case. If so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have reprinted it and made it old extended and modern legal. Not to mention standard playable in time spiral. You know recentish times where the color pie was well determined. Ijs
It was a Timeshifted card. Those were intentionally picked to be cards that would not be printed under the modern card philosophy, for the most part. Icatian Javelineers isn't really in the pie either, and it was also in the same exact situation. If anything, it is closer to an explosive than Psionic Blast, but we've both agreed that Explosives don't fit in white.
Is 14 years and 4 days ago really that recent in a game that has existed for 27 years? It's just over half the game's existence ago.
We didn't agree that explosives shouldn't be in white. I said they can exist as in a military style as Boros is the military of Rav. And I agreed it would be a bend but not a break. That the 3rd color should be white if there is a third color. Come on Charisays, feels like you are disagreeing just to do it at this point.
I'm just saying that a single card from before the concept of the color pie is not a precedent for an effect being in color.
There is a wealth of text agreeing with my stance by multiple current and former Magic designers. I'm not really sure if you read those types of things, but they exist.
I'm not disagreeing to disagree. Not really sure what point or logic you're using, and part of me feels like I'm being trolled or hazed as a new person.
And Wild Mongrel/ Tarmogoyf are power level mistakes. The green/ blue/ white burn spells are color pie mistakes. Not sure why you remember what was said but not what was said about it.
And I never said that color pie violations shouldn't be mentioned, not sure why you keep saying that. They just aren't useful examples of what is and isn't in the color pie. They're great for bringing up things that aren't good to justify designs upon.
If you search for any single case of an ability in a color, then any color can do anything. It's just not productive to the point of being spam.
It's funny you said that about being trolled. I was starting to feel the same way on the thread I created. Let's both agree that that isn't the case and move on.
You keep calling them mistakes. I gave 4 examples of these "mistakes". They are mistakes because they bend or break what a color should be able to do. I've always said any color can do anything if you give it an appropriate name. They pretty much prove that with BEES. Lol. But my point is you can put explosives in these colors as it wouldn't be the first time it's happened. "Mistakes" or not there is still a previous example of them happening. And in some cases over and over. So what is adding in another card or 2 for the flavor that it's obvious Wizards wouldn't pass on? That's what I'm trying to get across here. For flavor reasons you can do the same thing they have done, even after the color pie was well developed. Green recently-ish became the 2nd color for card draw with no disadvantage. Black has just now gotten enchantment hate. They are still flushing out what colors do what. I'd hate to see an opportunity being missed that who knows, maybe they'll end up including down the road anyways. You are acting like the color pie is this forbidden thing that can't be messed with... But they mess with it. We are playing the role of card designers. We can push the envelope also.
Blast of Inspiration is just a flavorful way to include the mechanic in blue, if you so chose to use it. Clearly you won't, but that's okay.
Right, but the whole 'Treasure token' 'Food token' 'You get a charge counter' 'Explosives token' is really monotone, poor style, and tacky. It all impedes on the grandeur of the Artifact supertype and their entire domain.
Right, but the whole 'Treasure token' 'Food token' 'You get a charge counter' 'Explosives token' is really monotone, poor style, and tacky. It all impedes on the grandeur of the Artifact supertype and their entire domain.
Uh huh, so using subtypes is tacky? I mean, fully almost 2/3rds of all cards have a subtype, and they are a convenient tool for design that has a multitude of purposes, but I guess if you personally have a bizarre issue with them, you can just play Nameless Race, monoartifacts, polyartifacts, Interrupts, and Summons
Similar to food and treasure tokens, cards will instruct players to create Explosive tokens. Most of the them will be in black or red, although I don't think a few situational ones in white would be too much of a bend.
Examples of cards using this mechanic:
Mine the Minefields 1R
Sorcery (Common)
Create an explosive token, then add C for each explosive you control. (An explosive is a colorless artifact with "2, t, Sacrifice this artifact: This deals 1 damage to any target")
Biological Assault 1BB
Instant (Uncommon)
~ costs B less to cast if you control three or more explosives.
Destroy target creature. Create an explosive token.
Cluster Grenade R
Artifact (Uncommon)
2, T, Sacrifice ~: ~ Deals 1 damage to any target.
4RR, Exile this card from your hand or graveyard: Create three explosive tokens. Until end of turn, activated abilities of explosives you control cost 2 to activate.
Nullzone Scrapper 3BR
Creature - Dwarf Artificer (Rare)
Deathtouch
When Nullzone Scrapper enters the battlefield, create an explosive token.
At the beginning of your end step, if you sacrificed one or more explosives this turn, Nullzone Scrapper deals 1 damage to any target.
5/3
Thoughts? Is this a worthwhile avenue to explore?
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It does push into a different play space than clues and food did, so that's a plus. Your ability is definitely Red and not a big bend for Black, but it doesn't fit in white if it can hit players. If you do plan for it to show up in more than just RB, it needs to be 3 to activate instead of 2, and not mana efficient to create in Blue or Green (like how food didn't show up in red and barely in blue)
It would likely be limited to red and black, and scaled mostly for limited play. My ideas for white were mostly defensive in natute, and I haven'treally even designed any that I liked. I don't think it fits on mono blue or mono green cards in any satisfying way
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Geist of Saint Traft
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This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
Only one I can see here is a multicolor card that destroys an artifact and creates one of these. Kinda like the byproduct of the destruction.
I don't see how white can have these as written since yes it can hit players. BUT then again the military is basically red white. Boros. So if made as a multicolor card I can see it being done. Like when you are attacked you can create 1 for each creature that attacked you or something like similar. That would probably be a creature that is in theory is suppose to make them to protect you bit you know... Explosives do have other applications.
Blue could make them as it is the artifact color. I can see them making them as experiments. But only in short numbers as it doesn't flow with what they are trying to do. Look at it like this, gun powder was created before rockets. They are probably the ones that would discover how to make gun powder. Through research and trial and error. I'd say blue could have 1 or 2 of these at max in the whole block or series or whatever.
Yeah probably not making any green ones, multicolor or not. Green gets to play another area of the design of the set, so it isn't missing much from this.
Blue is interesting, because while it is the color of making artifacts, the direct damage is a break in blue more than any other color.
White would only receive the most defensive of explosive token generation. The direct damage to a player is a severe bend in white, but it doesn't undercut an intentional weakness of the color the way it would in blue or green.
Not that I am likely to out white cards in the set that make explosive tokens, but if I did need a third color to get them, it would probably be white.
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Thraximundar
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Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
Blast of Inspiration 2UU (uncommon)
Sorcery
Create 2 explosive tokens then scry X, where X is equal to the number of artifacts you control.
Cards from Alpha are not a precedent for what things are in each colors slice of the pie. Psionic Blast is a well known break.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
It was a Timeshifted card. Those were intentionally picked to be cards that would not be printed under the modern card philosophy, for the most part. Icatian Javelineers isn't really in the pie either, and it was also in the same exact situation. If anything, it is closer to an explosive than Psionic Blast, but we've both agreed that Explosives don't fit in white.
Is 14 years and 4 days ago really that recent in a game that has existed for 27 years? It's just over half the game's existence ago.
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Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
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Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
But by your logic they intentionally put in older cards and those cards should then be not mentioned or spoken about? Am I understanding you correctly?
It's been said that Blood moon was a mistake to be in 8th and 9th editions. Should we just not play it either?
I didn't say they shouldn't be spoken about, I said that they were intentionally examples of the kinds of cards that don't fit the modern design philosophy. That block also has Planar Chaos, a well known set for having cards that don't fit the color pie. In fact, that was the theme there. They're fine to talk about, but most of them are not good examples of the color pie. See also Hornet Sting
Edit: Also, Modern is the name of the format. Vintage legal cards have nothing to do with wine and Legacy legal cards aren't hand me downs from an ancestor. It's just a name.
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Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
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Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
And yes I get that Maro says it was a mistake. Also said Wild Mongrel was a mistake... But never got banned. Then years later made Tarmogoyf. An even better beater. I'm sorry but I can't or won't just forget about multiple cards just because. They exist and only through either time control or bannings should they not be mentioned.
We didn't agree that explosives shouldn't be in white. I said they can exist as in a military style as Boros is the military of Rav. And I agreed it would be a bend but not a break. That the 3rd color should be white if there is a third color. Come on Charisays, feels like you are disagreeing just to do it at this point. 🙄
I'm just saying that a single card from before the concept of the color pie is not a precedent for an effect being in color.
There is a wealth of text agreeing with my stance by multiple current and former Magic designers. I'm not really sure if you read those types of things, but they exist.
I'm not disagreeing to disagree. Not really sure what point or logic you're using, and part of me feels like I'm being trolled or hazed as a new person.
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Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
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Thraximundar
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Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
And I never said that color pie violations shouldn't be mentioned, not sure why you keep saying that. They just aren't useful examples of what is and isn't in the color pie. They're great for bringing up things that aren't good to justify designs upon.
If you search for any single case of an ability in a color, then any color can do anything. It's just not productive to the point of being spam.
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Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
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Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
You keep calling them mistakes. I gave 4 examples of these "mistakes". They are mistakes because they bend or break what a color should be able to do. I've always said any color can do anything if you give it an appropriate name. They pretty much prove that with BEES. Lol. But my point is you can put explosives in these colors as it wouldn't be the first time it's happened. "Mistakes" or not there is still a previous example of them happening. And in some cases over and over. So what is adding in another card or 2 for the flavor that it's obvious Wizards wouldn't pass on? That's what I'm trying to get across here. For flavor reasons you can do the same thing they have done, even after the color pie was well developed. Green recently-ish became the 2nd color for card draw with no disadvantage. Black has just now gotten enchantment hate. They are still flushing out what colors do what. I'd hate to see an opportunity being missed that who knows, maybe they'll end up including down the road anyways. You are acting like the color pie is this forbidden thing that can't be messed with... But they mess with it. We are playing the role of card designers. We can push the envelope also.
Blast of Inspiration is just a flavorful way to include the mechanic in blue, if you so chose to use it. Clearly you won't, but that's okay.
I really loathe the extra-curricular sub-type usage with artifacts (vehicles, etc.).
It's unnecessary, and unnecessarily complicates things.
'You got any stuff that doesn't'
The explosive subtype is added mostly so that cards can say "Create an explosive token" and for a few cards to be able to care about explosives.
I have no idea what else you're rambling about
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Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
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Thraximundar
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Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
Uh huh, so using subtypes is tacky? I mean, fully almost 2/3rds of all cards have a subtype, and they are a convenient tool for design that has a multitude of purposes, but I guess if you personally have a bizarre issue with them, you can just play Nameless Race, monoartifacts, polyartifacts, Interrupts, and Summons
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"