Goblin Strategist Creature — Goblin
Whenever a Goblin creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may search your library for a Goblin creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then discard a card at random. Shuffle your library afterwards. We're all the strategy we need! Us and more of us. Just not sure how good dat 'tis? Since no one knows how reliable when you calls for one of us is.
1/1
Overzealous-era Version
Goblin Strategist Creature — Goblin
Goblin Strategist's toughness is equal to the number of Goblins you control plus 1.
Whenever a Goblin creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may search your library for a Goblin creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then discard a card at random. Shuffle your library afterwards.
1/+*
Just decided to do two versions to contrast the differences between Zealous and Overzealous era and design. I strongly feel the effects of overzealous design still strongly linger and have bad domain. It's something there should be an emphasis on to repress. Of course the second design is cool when you think about it, but it's simply just too much. You easily lose touch with the focus on all the other content you would run in linear with this.
The name is intended to reflect a simple thing, which in contrast of goblins is context of something great.
It’s obvious broken but other than that it’s neat. If it only triggered once it might not be broken but even then it’s debatable.
In case you can’t understand why repeatedly having all you cards attached to a gamble is broken let’s ignore the combo potential and look at the raw value. Gamble searches for a card and has you discard at random meaning it is card disadvantage because you spent 2 card(gamble and the discarded card) to get 1(the tutored card). Your goblin however does a good gamble impersonation for itself but instead of going to the graveyard like gamble it sits in play. Then each goblin after has “draw a goblin, discard a card at random” attached. While this never goes up in card advantage it allows you to replace bad draws with more goblins. Add in the fact that you are obviously using this to find combo pieces and it’s vague value becomes a dominating force.
I like the first one, but I'd make a tiny change- I'd remove the "you may" because it's too kind. It's a powerful effect and it should be a double-edged one. Though, maybe also I'd allow it to grab any Goblin card (stuff like Warren Weirding and Crib Swap could be cute to tutor for)
I think User is wrong on this one because the only card I'm comfortable casting Gamble to get has traditionally been a dredge card (Life from the Loam) and goblins don't really do that
But it is a turn one play so if you get the goblin t1 and have a Conspicious snoop as turn 2 play it's an easier setup for the goblin combo since you have 4/5 chance of keeping Boggart Harbinger. So it adds consistency to the goblin combo. In addition to that goblin decks traditionally run some cardadvantage stuff like Goblin Ringleader minimizing the chance of gambling away the card you tutored for. Nevermind what new kinda goblin deck could abuse this kinda card. I like it but it seems to strong. Yes Traditionally gamble is used in dredge decks or gy based decks but that is a one time gamble. This is potentially a 2 or 3 time gamble and that in one turn which ups its power by a lot.
Flavor-wise, this hits the nail on the head. Homerun. Very Goblin-y card, though the toughness boost on the second one is out of place in Red.
Power wise, its very strong but I'm not going to go so far as to say its broken. Since you can only search Goblin creatures (were you intentionally excluding it searching cards like Tarfire?) and you still randomly discard, power level won't be a major concern. The only thing I do think should be tweaked is to have it trigger off "non-token Goblins", so that the triggers don't get out of control with cards like Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, and probably "other non-token Goblins" so that it's toned down just a little by not triggering off itself.
Side note: I have no idea what your whole paragraph about "over-zealous design era" is about, and it reads like it went through google translate. Whatever philosophy you were trying to explain isn't coming across though the out of place vocabulary and grammatical errors.
I agree that adding "another non-token" is a reasonable fix to tone it down a tad. I'd also be concerned about it only costing one mana since it would be a brutal T1 play to go up against, even with the random discard. Goblin decks can be hard to play against when they get key effects that are aggressively costed, and I think this card could be two or three mana and still be a great utility addition to themed decks. I suppose it hinges on how pushed you want to make it, my gut says that Goblin is one of the few tribes to be mindful of giving too many aggressively-costed, strong effects to, such as this. Your mileage may vary.
The flavor is also on point. I personally like to associate random/chaos effects with Devils, though that's only supported by a handful of cards and Goblins very much have a history of randomness so both tribes dip their toes in. Plus, the card wouldn't be nearly as impressive if it were for Devils and that's not at all what you're going for with it.
But it is a turn one play so if you get the goblin t1 and have a Conspicious snoop as turn 2 play it's an easier setup for the goblin combo since you have 4/5 chance of keeping Boggart Harbinger. So it adds consistency to the goblin combo. In addition to that goblin decks traditionally run some cardadvantage stuff like Goblin Ringleader minimizing the chance of gambling away the card you tutored for. Nevermind what new kinda goblin deck could abuse this kinda card. I like it but it seems to strong. Yes Traditionally gamble is used in dredge decks or gy based decks but that is a one time gamble. This is potentially a 2 or 3 time gamble and that in one turn which ups its power by a lot.
It wants to do way too much, and a keen eye and tell, it actually has no idea what it's doing. And it wants to make up for that with bulk capability. It should be a Mutant or something, because the level of intelligence it's suggesting is far beyond that of Goblins (even domesticated). We're losing touch with the essence of the race at this point. This certainly doesn't do anything like that. It knows what it needs to do, and preserve an aspect of challenge in doing it. I don't really see anything abusing this too well, as much as it just being the next $120 chase rare for the hype it will bring. Don't forget the time-lapse in little you grab having haste. The time factor alone promote great balance to the effect and its other challenges.
Flavor-wise, this hits the nail on the head. Homerun. Very Goblin-y card, though the toughness boost on the second one is out of place in Red.
Power wise, its very strong but I'm not going to go so far as to say its broken. Since you can only search Goblin creatures (were you intentionally excluding it searching cards like Tarfire?) and you still randomly discard, power level won't be a major concern. The only thing I do think should be tweaked is to have it trigger off "non-token Goblins", so that the triggers don't get out of control with cards like Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, and probably "other non-token Goblins" so that it's toned down just a little by not triggering off itself.
Side note: I have no idea what your whole paragraph about "over-zealous design era" is about, and it reads like it went through google translate. Whatever philosophy you were trying to explain isn't coming across though the out of place vocabulary and grammatical errors.
It is not intended to grab non-creature spells.
This was something I was avid about to exclude from the very beginning of the concept. For what it does, and in honor of that power and potential, it wants to remain isolated to that. It doesn't want to be desperate or overzealous to do anything else. I personally don't like the whole 'Tribal' spell gig. I've come to see it in a dingy light. I think the entire concept should be scrapped and all of them turned into traditional spells. This is coming from someone who has worked with tribal set development and Tribal spells evocative of deep flavor and identity.
I don't think the token bit matters at all. You grab more, but you discard more, and your hand narrows down to nothing. It's incredibly self-sufficient balance in the 1-for-1 exchange there. You'll never be able to work outside of your hand size. If you have no cards in hand, you'll have to discard everything you search for. That boundary is not necessary, so that interactivity should be left alone and preserved.
Conspicuous Snoop is a great example of an overzealous design.
It wants to do way too much, and a keen eye and tell, it actually has no idea what it's doing. And it wants to make up for that with bulk capability. It should be a Mutant or something, because the level of intelligence it's suggesting is far beyond that of Goblins (even domesticated).
Yet the cards exists and unless this design is self isolated aka for a draft set or a cube etc. as a designer you need to think of stuff like that.
Additionally there were/are smart goblins see the kyren from mercadia.
Flavor should inform function but flavor should never be the end all in a game that should be playable.
I don't think the token bit matters at all. You grab more, but you discard more, and your hand narrows down to nothing. It's incredibly self-sufficient balance in the 1-for-1 exchange there. You'll never be able to work outside of your hand size. If you have no cards in hand, you'll have to discard everything you search for. That boundary is not necessary, so that interactivity should be left alone and preserved.
There are plenty ways around that and even making use of that in plenty of cards.
I still think this card may be to strong so adding a nontoken clause might help tone it down a bit
Flavor should inform function but flavor should never be the end all in a game that should be playable.
It's to say that when your product is a fantasy game, the flavor (or authenticity, realism, emulation to-and-of the fantasy concepts) is key.
Foundation and priority.
It's not a simple thing. I totally understand the league of 'anything is possible by a stretch of the imagination'. The flavor of the Conspicuous Snoop card is certainly possible by a stretch of the imagination. However, it more importantly involves going against the nature of goblins and their embodiment as a crude, primitive underlings race. So, it's not actually possible, or shouldn't be, because they don't have the hardware for that.
Another technical aspect of flavor, is that although some things are possible, the concept is more importantly too bland or monotone. The game loses luster from the colorless or lifeless, simplistic or boring concept. Liveliness is another aspect of flavor (flare of fantasy) that the developer of a fantasy game has a responsibility to establish and secure.
It's to say that when your product is a fantasy game, the flavor (or authenticity, realism, emulation to-and-of the fantasy concepts) is key.
Its what draws people in but the gameplay is what makes them stay you can have a game that just oozes flavor if the gameplay sucks it will be a bad game.
However, it more importantly involves going against the nature of goblins and their embodiment as a crude, primitive underlings race.
Again look at the kyren they are the ruling class of mercadia and they are goblins. It has been established that they can be smart and in ruling positions.
But that has nothing to do with your card/ snoop gameplay wise. Again its awesome if flavor matches function but its still bad if the function is either to bad or too good.
So think like a designer of a Fantasy Game and not the designer of a Fantasy World.
It's to say that when your product is a fantasy game, the flavor (or authenticity, realism, emulation to-and-of the fantasy concepts) is key.
Its what draws people in but the gameplay is what makes them stay you can have a game that just oozes flavor if the gameplay sucks it will be a bad game.
However, it more importantly involves going against the nature of goblins and their embodiment as a crude, primitive underlings race.
Again look at the kyren they are the ruling class of mercadia and they are goblins. It has been established that they can be smart and in ruling positions.
But that has nothing to do with your card/ snoop gameplay wise. Again its awesome if flavor matches function but its still bad if the function is either to bad or too good.
So think like a designer of a Fantasy Game and not the designer of a Fantasy World.
Mixing worlds can be bad etiquette. You have to go back on the entire origin and legacy that's been established, and that's very feel bad.
Traditionally, you want to stick to your guns and stick to your roots.
It's like someone who says one thing and then turns around and says another.
Mixing worlds can be bad etiquette. You have to go back on the entire origin and legacy that's been established, and that's very feel bad.
How is that relevant?
And even if it were relevant Magics flavor has always been different with different planes. One of them beeing Mercadia where there are smart goblins.
None of this is important to the card you designed though.
That should probably have read, "aren't much different than Dominaria—they only think they're smart."
Buuuuut, it doesn't. Just as with the rules, arguing what the flavor of x or y should have been isn't what this forums is for. If you want goblins on your plane to be dumb as rocks, go for it, but that doesn't invalidate the design choices of the game's makers.
Further, to the prior post's points, yes flavor is important. However when it come to a choice between flavor and gameplay, gameplay always wins. This is why Biogenic Ooze can wear Lightning Greaves and why Jar of Eyeballs still gets two eyeball counters when a Cyclops dies. Otherwise every card becomes bogged down by near meaningless corner case rules with no benefit to gameplay.
I don't know why Conspicuous Snoop is clearly indicative of any high degree of intelligence. It allows to cast goblins and it copies activated abilities. What's so smart about that? Because it interacts with the library? I mean, the card is called conspicuous snoop- i.e. a sneaky person who not very subtle. How much more do you need? Why's it so important for goblins to be clearly dumb? What's the big deal about the vague impression one might get from one card that goblins are smart?
I don't know why Conspicuous Snoop is clearly indicative of any high degree of intelligence. It allows to cast goblins and it copies activated abilities. What's so smart about that? Because it interacts with the library? I mean, the card is called conspicuous snoop- i.e. a sneaky person who not very subtle. How much more do you need? Why's it so important for goblins to be clearly dumb? What's the big deal about the vague impression one might get from one card that goblins are smart?
Because the name is over-the-top. It wants to be too sophisticated, and thus denotes this sub-consciously.
I don't know why Conspicuous Snoop is clearly indicative of any high degree of intelligence. It allows to cast goblins and it copies activated abilities. What's so smart about that? Because it interacts with the library? I mean, the card is called conspicuous snoop- i.e. a sneaky person who not very subtle. How much more do you need? Why's it so important for goblins to be clearly dumb? What's the big deal about the vague impression one might get from one card that goblins are smart?
Because the name is over-the-top. It wants to be too sophisticated, and thus denotes this sub-consciously.
Why not just Goblin Snoop?
What does this mean? Denotes what? And sub-consciously- how?
Are you saying 'conspicuous' is too obscure a word? Too subtle for you?
I don't know why Conspicuous Snoop is clearly indicative of any high degree of intelligence. It allows to cast goblins and it copies activated abilities. What's so smart about that? Because it interacts with the library? I mean, the card is called conspicuous snoop- i.e. a sneaky person who not very subtle. How much more do you need? Why's it so important for goblins to be clearly dumb? What's the big deal about the vague impression one might get from one card that goblins are smart?
Because the name is over-the-top. It wants to be too sophisticated, and thus denotes this sub-consciously.
Why not just Goblin Snoop?
Reap is complaining about over-the-top word usage. Its as though he doesn't like the vocabulary's over-zealous juxtaposition of force majeure.
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Goblin Strategist
Creature — Goblin
Whenever a Goblin creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may search your library for a Goblin creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then discard a card at random. Shuffle your library afterwards.
We're all the strategy we need! Us and more of us. Just not sure how good dat 'tis? Since no one knows how reliable when you calls for one of us is.
1/1
Overzealous-era Version
Goblin Strategist
Creature — Goblin
Goblin Strategist's toughness is equal to the number of Goblins you control plus 1.
Whenever a Goblin creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may search your library for a Goblin creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then discard a card at random. Shuffle your library afterwards.
1/+*
Just decided to do two versions to contrast the differences between Zealous and Overzealous era and design. I strongly feel the effects of overzealous design still strongly linger and have bad domain. It's something there should be an emphasis on to repress. Of course the second design is cool when you think about it, but it's simply just too much. You easily lose touch with the focus on all the other content you would run in linear with this.
The name is intended to reflect a simple thing, which in contrast of goblins is context of something great.
The effect of course is simply Gamble on repeat.
In case you can’t understand why repeatedly having all you cards attached to a gamble is broken let’s ignore the combo potential and look at the raw value. Gamble searches for a card and has you discard at random meaning it is card disadvantage because you spent 2 card(gamble and the discarded card) to get 1(the tutored card). Your goblin however does a good gamble impersonation for itself but instead of going to the graveyard like gamble it sits in play. Then each goblin after has “draw a goblin, discard a card at random” attached. While this never goes up in card advantage it allows you to replace bad draws with more goblins. Add in the fact that you are obviously using this to find combo pieces and it’s vague value becomes a dominating force.
Consider you'll have to include some artifact for draw to keep it going, which will set you back further.
I think User is wrong on this one because the only card I'm comfortable casting Gamble to get has traditionally been a dredge card (Life from the Loam) and goblins don't really do that
Power wise, its very strong but I'm not going to go so far as to say its broken. Since you can only search Goblin creatures (were you intentionally excluding it searching cards like Tarfire?) and you still randomly discard, power level won't be a major concern. The only thing I do think should be tweaked is to have it trigger off "non-token Goblins", so that the triggers don't get out of control with cards like Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, and probably "other non-token Goblins" so that it's toned down just a little by not triggering off itself.
Side note: I have no idea what your whole paragraph about "over-zealous design era" is about, and it reads like it went through google translate. Whatever philosophy you were trying to explain isn't coming across though the out of place vocabulary and grammatical errors.
The flavor is also on point. I personally like to associate random/chaos effects with Devils, though that's only supported by a handful of cards and Goblins very much have a history of randomness so both tribes dip their toes in. Plus, the card wouldn't be nearly as impressive if it were for Devils and that's not at all what you're going for with it.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Conspicuous Snoop is a great example of an overzealous design.
It wants to do way too much, and a keen eye and tell, it actually has no idea what it's doing. And it wants to make up for that with bulk capability. It should be a Mutant or something, because the level of intelligence it's suggesting is far beyond that of Goblins (even domesticated). We're losing touch with the essence of the race at this point. This certainly doesn't do anything like that. It knows what it needs to do, and preserve an aspect of challenge in doing it. I don't really see anything abusing this too well, as much as it just being the next $120 chase rare for the hype it will bring. Don't forget the time-lapse in little you grab having haste. The time factor alone promote great balance to the effect and its other challenges.
It is not intended to grab non-creature spells.
This was something I was avid about to exclude from the very beginning of the concept. For what it does, and in honor of that power and potential, it wants to remain isolated to that. It doesn't want to be desperate or overzealous to do anything else. I personally don't like the whole 'Tribal' spell gig. I've come to see it in a dingy light. I think the entire concept should be scrapped and all of them turned into traditional spells. This is coming from someone who has worked with tribal set development and Tribal spells evocative of deep flavor and identity.
I don't think the token bit matters at all. You grab more, but you discard more, and your hand narrows down to nothing. It's incredibly self-sufficient balance in the 1-for-1 exchange there. You'll never be able to work outside of your hand size. If you have no cards in hand, you'll have to discard everything you search for. That boundary is not necessary, so that interactivity should be left alone and preserved.
Yet the cards exists and unless this design is self isolated aka for a draft set or a cube etc. as a designer you need to think of stuff like that.
Additionally there were/are smart goblins see the kyren from mercadia.
Flavor should inform function but flavor should never be the end all in a game that should be playable.
There are plenty ways around that and even making use of that in plenty of cards.
I still think this card may be to strong so adding a nontoken clause might help tone it down a bit
It's to say that when your product is a fantasy game, the flavor (or authenticity, realism, emulation to-and-of the fantasy concepts) is key.
Foundation and priority.
It's not a simple thing. I totally understand the league of 'anything is possible by a stretch of the imagination'. The flavor of the Conspicuous Snoop card is certainly possible by a stretch of the imagination. However, it more importantly involves going against the nature of goblins and their embodiment as a crude, primitive underlings race. So, it's not actually possible, or shouldn't be, because they don't have the hardware for that.
Another technical aspect of flavor, is that although some things are possible, the concept is more importantly too bland or monotone. The game loses luster from the colorless or lifeless, simplistic or boring concept. Liveliness is another aspect of flavor (flare of fantasy) that the developer of a fantasy game has a responsibility to establish and secure.
Its what draws people in but the gameplay is what makes them stay you can have a game that just oozes flavor if the gameplay sucks it will be a bad game.
Again look at the kyren they are the ruling class of mercadia and they are goblins. It has been established that they can be smart and in ruling positions.
But that has nothing to do with your card/ snoop gameplay wise. Again its awesome if flavor matches function but its still bad if the function is either to bad or too good.
So think like a designer of a Fantasy Game and not the designer of a Fantasy World.
Mixing worlds can be bad etiquette. You have to go back on the entire origin and legacy that's been established, and that's very feel bad.
Traditionally, you want to stick to your guns and stick to your roots.
It's like someone who says one thing and then turns around and says another.
How is that relevant?
And even if it were relevant Magics flavor has always been different with different planes. One of them beeing Mercadia where there are smart goblins.
None of this is important to the card you designed though.
That should probably have read, "aren't much different than Dominaria—they only think they're smart."
Furthermore, this is really only proof that they've made this mistake before. It's not very well-received.
Says who?
Furthermore still not relevant
Buuuuut, it doesn't. Just as with the rules, arguing what the flavor of x or y should have been isn't what this forums is for. If you want goblins on your plane to be dumb as rocks, go for it, but that doesn't invalidate the design choices of the game's makers.
Further, to the prior post's points, yes flavor is important. However when it come to a choice between flavor and gameplay, gameplay always wins. This is why Biogenic Ooze can wear Lightning Greaves and why Jar of Eyeballs still gets two eyeball counters when a Cyclops dies. Otherwise every card becomes bogged down by near meaningless corner case rules with no benefit to gameplay.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Because the name is over-the-top. It wants to be too sophisticated, and thus denotes this sub-consciously.
Why not just Goblin Snoop?
What does this mean? Denotes what? And sub-consciously- how?
Are you saying 'conspicuous' is too obscure a word? Too subtle for you?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
That would make it more random and more balanced.
Reap is complaining about over-the-top word usage. Its as though he doesn't like the vocabulary's over-zealous juxtaposition of force majeure.