Okay so based on the feedback I got for my "guildwizards," I reexamined what I wanted out of this cycle for my Ravnica set. Here are my thoughts:
Guildmages are less about rewarding players for committing to a guild and more about giving players something to do in the late game. My original idea was not good for this and it looks like trying to force them into the same spot is distressing to fans of traditional Guildmages.
So I was thinking about how I could achieve a novel take on Guildmages without betraying their purpose, and while looking through guild cycles, I considered the Guild Rocks. Signets, Keyrunes, Cluestones, and now Lockets. Signets were just mana accelerators, but every other cycle had additional functionality. This got me thinking about a few things:
What if Guildmages had two abilities: a mana ability, and a utility ability? Like this:
Azor's Guildmage1(W/U)(W/U)
Creature - Human Wizard (U)
2/2 T: Add W or U. 4WU: Creatures you control get +0/+1 and gain flying until end of turn.
This card probably raises a few questions and red flags, not the smallest of which is the idea of a nongreen creature that taps for mana.
Here's my answer: If every color can have access to an artifact that taps for any color, I see no problem with every color having access to something that produces mana of that color.
Still, I would impose some rules to ensure nothing gets undermined: Firstly, nothing that costs under three mana. Secondly, nothing that produces more than one mana per turn. And thirdly, nothing that produces mana of colors outside the card's own colors. Essentially, each guild's new Guildmage should be no more effective for acceleration than Manalith and none of them should encroach on green's territory for fixing outside its own colors.
Now lets examine each aspect of the card:
3 CMC: Like I said, this is done to make sure these guildmages aren't any better at accelerating than the mana rocks they all normally have access to anyway. It is a departure for classic Guildmages, but I think it's fine.
Hybrid cost: To facilitate the role of fixing mana within the colors of a single guild, it should be easy to cast even if you don't have both colors of mana on the battlefield.
Two activated abilities: This technically lines up with all previous Guildmages, which also have two abilities each. This time around, one of those abilities just happens to be a very different kind of ability.
Early game ability: This is the mana ability, giving you fixing and minor acceleration to cast your multicolored spells.
Late game ability: This is the activated ability, which the mana ability can help to pay for. Part of the appeal of Guildmages seems to be the ability to be active even with an empty hand. This ability facilitates that.
The next question this card raises is this: What happens to Guild Rocks with these in the set? The answer is that they get replaced by something else. That presents an interesting challenge, as Guild Rocks are historically common while Guildmages are historically uncommon. At some point, if people like these new Guildmages, I'll tackle that and make a new thread.
Anyway, what I like about this new style of Guildmage is that only having one non-mana ability conserves design space a bit without sacrificing a lot of functionality.
Here's my answer: If every color can have access to an artifact that taps for any color, I see no problem with every color having access to something that produces mana of that color.
Not the same. A red deck can put artifacts to provide non-red mana, but a red deck can't put Azor's Guildmage to provide UW.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I think what was meant was, "I don't see a problem with colors producing self-colored mana." Which I tend to agree with (and I suspect that if we include land-search, every color can already produce self-colored mana anyway, although I'm not going to do a search to verify.)
How would you feel about triple hybrid costs?
And/or making them like signets?
Rakdos’ Guildmage (Uncommon) (B/R)(B/R)(B/R)
Creature - Devil Wizard
2/2 (B/R), t: Add BR. 4BR: Return a creature card at random from your graveyard to the battlefield. That creature gains haste until end of turn. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.
How would you feel about triple hybrid costs?
And/or making them like signets?
Rakdos’ Guildmage (Uncommon) (B/R)(B/R)(B/R)
Creature - Devil Wizard
2/2 (B/R), t: Add BR. 4BR: Return a creature card at random from your graveyard to the battlefield. That creature gains haste until end of turn. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.
I think using three hybrids for the mana cost is fine. It looks a little nicer, though idk what impact it'll have on actual gameplay.
Using a signet mana ability, or a filter ability, is an interesting option. Again, it looks nicer, as it now includes a mana cost to line up a bit better with how Guildmage abilities typically work. But it does draw attention to an interesting problem I hadn't seen before.
Let's look at the second ability for a moment. Assuming it costs "4BR" and the same card can tap for black or red, that cost is actually functionally "4(B/R), T". Because the same card can help pay for its own ability's mana cost, it effectively turns the mana symbols in that mana cost into color-tap hybrids, which means that the ability would have to be treated as a hybrid ability.
Using the signet mana ability yields the same result, as you're still paying a hybrid mana and four generic mana and tapping. So, here's my solution:
Szadek's Guildmage(U/B)(U/B)(U/B)
Creature - Human Wizard (U)
2/2 (U/B), T: Add UB. 1UUBB: Draw two cards, then choose up to three cards in your hand and discard the rest.
This way, the Guildmage can still help pay for its own ability, but you still have to invest at least one mana of each of each of its colors into it, making it safe as a gold ability.
Alternatively, I could just go the other way and design each ability as a hybrid ability anyway. What do you think would be better?
Yes, every color gets mana rocks, and yes, every color can sorta produce on-color mana, but I feel like hybrid puts the originals beyond the pale. If you go triple-hybrid mana costs, and include the literal signet mana ability, then you probably have just enough nostalgia on your side to justify a pie bend in W, U, and B.
Re: Naming scheme: What will the black-red guildmage be called?
---
I think the problem would be less pronounced if the guildmages had a gold cost rather than a hybrid cost e. g.
Obzedat's Guildmage1WB
Creature - Vampire Cleric (W/B), T: Add WB. WWBB: Each opponent loses 1 life and you gain that much life.
2/2
It would be nice to have them at a CD cost, but the real issue here is efficiency - giving every color a Llanowar Dead is pushing it.
---
It would be hard to find hybrid abilities suitable for all ten members of the cycle unless you really bend the color pie or don't mind getting repetettive...
(W/B)(W/B)(W/B)(W/B): Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains lifelink until end of turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Guildmages are less about rewarding players for committing to a guild and more about giving players something to do in the late game. My original idea was not good for this and it looks like trying to force them into the same spot is distressing to fans of traditional Guildmages.
So I was thinking about how I could achieve a novel take on Guildmages without betraying their purpose, and while looking through guild cycles, I considered the Guild Rocks. Signets, Keyrunes, Cluestones, and now Lockets. Signets were just mana accelerators, but every other cycle had additional functionality. This got me thinking about a few things:
What if Guildmages had two abilities: a mana ability, and a utility ability? Like this:
Azor's Guildmage 1(W/U)(W/U)
Creature - Human Wizard (U)
2/2
T: Add W or U.
4WU: Creatures you control get +0/+1 and gain flying until end of turn.
This card probably raises a few questions and red flags, not the smallest of which is the idea of a nongreen creature that taps for mana.
Here's my answer: If every color can have access to an artifact that taps for any color, I see no problem with every color having access to something that produces mana of that color.
Still, I would impose some rules to ensure nothing gets undermined: Firstly, nothing that costs under three mana. Secondly, nothing that produces more than one mana per turn. And thirdly, nothing that produces mana of colors outside the card's own colors. Essentially, each guild's new Guildmage should be no more effective for acceleration than Manalith and none of them should encroach on green's territory for fixing outside its own colors.
Now lets examine each aspect of the card:
3 CMC: Like I said, this is done to make sure these guildmages aren't any better at accelerating than the mana rocks they all normally have access to anyway. It is a departure for classic Guildmages, but I think it's fine.
Hybrid cost: To facilitate the role of fixing mana within the colors of a single guild, it should be easy to cast even if you don't have both colors of mana on the battlefield.
Two activated abilities: This technically lines up with all previous Guildmages, which also have two abilities each. This time around, one of those abilities just happens to be a very different kind of ability.
Early game ability: This is the mana ability, giving you fixing and minor acceleration to cast your multicolored spells.
Late game ability: This is the activated ability, which the mana ability can help to pay for. Part of the appeal of Guildmages seems to be the ability to be active even with an empty hand. This ability facilitates that.
The next question this card raises is this: What happens to Guild Rocks with these in the set? The answer is that they get replaced by something else. That presents an interesting challenge, as Guild Rocks are historically common while Guildmages are historically uncommon. At some point, if people like these new Guildmages, I'll tackle that and make a new thread.
Anyway, what I like about this new style of Guildmage is that only having one non-mana ability conserves design space a bit without sacrificing a lot of functionality.
Anyway, what do you guys think?
Not the same. A red deck can put artifacts to provide non-red mana, but a red deck can't put Azor's Guildmage to provide UW.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
And/or making them like signets?
Rakdos’ Guildmage (Uncommon)
(B/R)(B/R)(B/R)
Creature - Devil Wizard
2/2
(B/R), t: Add BR.
4BR: Return a creature card at random from your graveyard to the battlefield. That creature gains haste until end of turn. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.
Using a signet mana ability, or a filter ability, is an interesting option. Again, it looks nicer, as it now includes a mana cost to line up a bit better with how Guildmage abilities typically work. But it does draw attention to an interesting problem I hadn't seen before.
Let's look at the second ability for a moment. Assuming it costs "4BR" and the same card can tap for black or red, that cost is actually functionally "4(B/R), T". Because the same card can help pay for its own ability's mana cost, it effectively turns the mana symbols in that mana cost into color-tap hybrids, which means that the ability would have to be treated as a hybrid ability.
Using the signet mana ability yields the same result, as you're still paying a hybrid mana and four generic mana and tapping. So, here's my solution:
Szadek's Guildmage (U/B)(U/B)(U/B)
Creature - Human Wizard (U)
2/2
(U/B), T: Add UB.
1UUBB: Draw two cards, then choose up to three cards in your hand and discard the rest.
This way, the Guildmage can still help pay for its own ability, but you still have to invest at least one mana of each of each of its colors into it, making it safe as a gold ability.
Alternatively, I could just go the other way and design each ability as a hybrid ability anyway. What do you think would be better?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
---
I think the problem would be less pronounced if the guildmages had a gold cost rather than a hybrid cost e. g.
Obzedat's Guildmage 1WB
Creature - Vampire Cleric
(W/B), T: Add WB.
WWBB: Each opponent loses 1 life and you gain that much life.
2/2
It would be nice to have them at a CD cost, but the real issue here is efficiency - giving every color a Llanowar Dead is pushing it.
---
It would be hard to find hybrid abilities suitable for all ten members of the cycle unless you really bend the color pie or don't mind getting repetettive...
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO