Poor Simic. It constantly gets the short end of the stick for one big reason: it's the worst removal combo in the game. One color struggles to take out creatures, and the other really only deals with spells efficiently. It's high time that the combo is thrown a bone. Here are 2 in-pie ideas:
Cunning Savagery1GU
Instant
Choose one:
Target creature you control deals damage equal to its power to another target creature.
Counter target spell with converted mana cost less than or equal to the greatest power among creatures you control.
Countermagic and removal don't get stapled together too often, and for good reason. Rabid Bite is about as strong a removal as green gets nowadays, and I made the counter end creature-based as well for the sake of symmetry and to offset the versatility.
Hybrid Maneuver1
Instant
If U was spent to cast Hybrid Maneuver, you may have target creature get -3/-0 until the end of the turn. If G was spent to cast Hybrid Maneuver, you may have target creature you control fight another target creature.
Scrapped for color pie issues:
Fluidity1
Instant
If U was spent to cast Fluidity, you may have target creature get -3/-0 until the end of the turn. If G was spent to cast Fluidity, you may destroy target creature. If you do, its controller creatures an X/X green Ooze creature token, where X was the destroyed creature's power.
Alright, so this one is a little wacky. Green and blue have a surprising amount of color pie overlap, and remove-and-replace is one of them, owing partially to their shared white ally. Fluidity might be too complicated, but I'm a little proud of its sheer flexibility.
As far as I can tell, Green doesn't really get unconditional creature destruction even with replacement. Beast Within is the only green card I could find that did that. Changing it to destroy a creature with flying could work?
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
As far as I can tell, Green doesn't really get unconditional creature destruction even with replacement. Beast Within is the only green card I could find that did that. Changing it to destroy a creature with flying could work?
Well, Mercy Killing's forced creature sacrifice definitely did not belong to green, which makes the tokens green's contribution by order of elimination. Green also has a couple Pacifism variants that leave the opponent with something, like Lignify, Song of the Dryads, and Utopia Vow. It's few and far in-between, like most of green's non-creature-based removal, but it isn't a total departure from the pie, either.
Still, I suppose having the blue half be "target creature gains flying until EoT" and the green half be "destroy target creature if it has flying" would be more straightforward, though it would merit a cost increase. I'm aiming for "better than usual," not Terminate.
I read somewhere that they consider Beast Within to be a mistake and a pie-break.
I also read somewhere that they had to really stretch credibility to fill all the hybrid slots in Shadowmoor, so Mercy Killing is also probably a pie-break for green.
If you made the green part of Fluidity into a fight, you would still have a strong green removal variant for Simic.
Green does not, or at least should not, do Polymorph variants. That's still the province of blue. Song of the Dryads I'm okay with, Beast Within less so. Furthermore, you shouldn't be able to Vanquish the Weak for GU - Fluidity is a definite no-no.
Cunning Savagery, though, is wonderful. Props on that.
I agree with the color pie complains about Fluidity. The complexity of it is also problematic especially given how unconnected the two effects feel, putting it in hot glue gun design territory.
Cunning Savagery is nice, except it does feel a little bit hot glue gun as well. The connection of power is there, but feels maybe a bit forced rather than a natural combination of effects. Not sure.
Well, depending on what the rest of the deck is trying to do, green and blue are not without their own anti-creature strategies.
Green has Lignify, which for most intents and purposes rids you of the problem unless your deck is all 3 power and below, like a small zoo deck. If your creatures are large, then there are no shortage of "fight" effects.
Blue has pongify and bounce effects. The pongify effects work very nicely with repeal. Mass bounce on creatures like Thing in the Ice also make for some amazing tempo strategies as you buy time with individual bounce spells, then eventually upend everything and swing in.
Combining the 2, I'd expect something that is really not much different than Simic Charm. If anything, you could call it boring. But its definitely "so simic".
Should UG have better removal? Well, that would be like giving red and black hard counterspells. You could do a color shift thing, but the shifted spell would still need to be considerably weaker than the in-color equivalent, so i question how much you have to gain by playing UG and not splashing for B or W.
If all else fails, play Dismember. I know I would include 4 if I were to form a UG deck for whatever reason.
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Personally, I think that pushed simic removal would look something like this:
Predatory Response
Instant (R)
Until end of turn, target creature you control gains trample and gains base power and toughness 4/4. That creature fights up to one target creature you don't control.
Should UG have better removal? Well, that would be like giving red and black hard counterspells. You could do a color shift thing, but the shifted spell would still need to be considerably weaker than the in-color equivalent, so i question how much you have to gain by playing UG and not splashing for B or W.
If all else fails, play Dismember. I know I would include 4 if I were to form a UG deck for whatever reason.
Removal is a broad umbrella that convers multiple ways of dealing with permanents. Countermagic is a subset of removal native to one color and sprinkled lightly throughout the rest of the color pie. You're comparing a genus to phylum. I want to combine what blue and green already have to make them better at handling creatures than where they are right now within their pies. My first version of Fluidity is a pie break, and will be rectified.
What you suggest is advice for Simic decks, which is largely limited by format anyways, while I'm talking about design. Dismember addresses the symptoms. I want to treat the disease.
I remember posting something like this a very long time ago, in response to an idea for an anti-Thragtusk creature.
Novijen AmphibimancerUG Creature - Merfolk Wizard (R)
Flash
When Novijen Amphibimancer enters the battlefield, until end of turn, target creature you don't control loses all abilities and becomes a blue Frog with base power and toughness 1/1. 1/2
Kinda like a Winged Coatl (which performs serious work as Scorpion Wasp in Eternal, but that's another game), except that it can actually survive combat, and also mess with it when you're attacking. Also as Ravnica lore-friendly Merfolk, it would give fish a reason to actually run green!
Duke Daemon, all of your ideas have serious problems. Mystic Beast is 3 mana flash Control Magic, Changes of the Flesh is either a combo piece (as is Polymorph, tbh) or a way to kill a small creature and see all cards in an opponent's library, and Cycle of Evolution is probably better than Swords to Plowshares in a color that shouldn't have good removal, and uses deprecated now antiregeneration clause.
Yeah, Mystic Beast probably needs to be like 6-8 mana and/or in UB.
Changes of the Flesh also needs to be around 6-8 mana, and I'd make it a non-Ravnican UR card. It's combo x removal, or two combo parts, or turn 4 Eldrazi Titan x removal.
Cycle of Evolution already exists and it's called Crib Swap.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
Would Simic removal be closer to something that artificially ties life forces together? Like a card that destroys target creature when target creature you control dies this turn?
I always think that reincarnation is a very simic card, even though it is probably closer to golgari or something that cares about life and death. I figured that simic removal would be something more sciency and bio-engineering than fighting creatures together.
Imprisoned in the Goo 2UG
Enchantment - Aura (r)
Enchant Nonland Permanent
Enchanted permanent is a blue and green ooze creature with base power and toughness 0/4 and has indestructible, and it loses all other abilities, card types, and creature types. UG: Return ~ to its owner’s hand. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
Removal is a broad umbrella that convers multiple ways of dealing with permanents. Countermagic is a subset of removal native to one color and sprinkled lightly throughout the rest of the color pie. You're comparing a genus to phylum. I want to combine what blue and green already have to make them better at handling creatures than where they are right now within their pies. My first version of Fluidity is a pie break, and will be rectified.
What you suggest is advice for Simic decks, which is largely limited by format anyways, while I'm talking about design. Dismember addresses the symptoms. I want to treat the disease.
You're right, I think I went slightly off tangent there.
The way I see UG is, neither color actually straight out destroys a creature. They change and morph, bounce, fight, gain control of. I believe a playable UG spell that reasonably deals with creatures would be a charm of some sort, so that the downsides can be overcome by utility.
Induced Instability 2UG
Instant
Choose two:
- Gain control of target creature with cmc 2 or less
- Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control
- Counter target noncreature spell; create a X/X ooze token, where X is the cmc of the spell countered this way
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Blobulate is maybe a little too close to just being a kill spell. If you replaced Fights another target creature with Loses all abilities it'd still be entertaining.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
Cunning Savagery 1GU
Instant
Choose one:
Countermagic and removal don't get stapled together too often, and for good reason. Rabid Bite is about as strong a removal as green gets nowadays, and I made the counter end creature-based as well for the sake of symmetry and to offset the versatility.
Hybrid Maneuver 1
Instant
If U was spent to cast Hybrid Maneuver, you may have target creature get -3/-0 until the end of the turn. If G was spent to cast Hybrid Maneuver, you may have target creature you control fight another target creature.
Scrapped for color pie issues:
Fluidity 1
Instant
If U was spent to cast Fluidity, you may have target creature get -3/-0 until the end of the turn. If G was spent to cast Fluidity, you may destroy target creature. If you do, its controller creatures an X/X green Ooze creature token, where X was the destroyed creature's power.
Alright, so this one is a little wacky. Green and blue have a surprising amount of color pie overlap, and remove-and-replace is one of them, owing partially to their shared white ally. Fluidity might be too complicated, but I'm a little proud of its sheer flexibility.
Art is life itself.
Well, Mercy Killing's forced creature sacrifice definitely did not belong to green, which makes the tokens green's contribution by order of elimination. Green also has a couple Pacifism variants that leave the opponent with something, like Lignify, Song of the Dryads, and Utopia Vow. It's few and far in-between, like most of green's non-creature-based removal, but it isn't a total departure from the pie, either.
Still, I suppose having the blue half be "target creature gains flying until EoT" and the green half be "destroy target creature if it has flying" would be more straightforward, though it would merit a cost increase. I'm aiming for "better than usual," not Terminate.
I also read somewhere that they had to really stretch credibility to fill all the hybrid slots in Shadowmoor, so Mercy Killing is also probably a pie-break for green.
If you made the green part of Fluidity into a fight, you would still have a strong green removal variant for Simic.
Cunning Savagery, though, is wonderful. Props on that.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Cunning Savagery is nice, except it does feel a little bit hot glue gun as well. The connection of power is there, but feels maybe a bit forced rather than a natural combination of effects. Not sure.
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Green has Lignify, which for most intents and purposes rids you of the problem unless your deck is all 3 power and below, like a small zoo deck. If your creatures are large, then there are no shortage of "fight" effects.
Blue has pongify and bounce effects. The pongify effects work very nicely with repeal. Mass bounce on creatures like Thing in the Ice also make for some amazing tempo strategies as you buy time with individual bounce spells, then eventually upend everything and swing in.
Combining the 2, I'd expect something that is really not much different than Simic Charm. If anything, you could call it boring. But its definitely "so simic".
Should UG have better removal? Well, that would be like giving red and black hard counterspells. You could do a color shift thing, but the shifted spell would still need to be considerably weaker than the in-color equivalent, so i question how much you have to gain by playing UG and not splashing for B or W.
If all else fails, play Dismember. I know I would include 4 if I were to form a UG deck for whatever reason.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Predatory Response
Instant (R)
Until end of turn, target creature you control gains trample and gains base power and toughness 4/4. That creature fights up to one target creature you don't control.
I really like that idea, actually. Keeps the synergy with the debuff and fixes the pie issues.
Removal is a broad umbrella that convers multiple ways of dealing with permanents. Countermagic is a subset of removal native to one color and sprinkled lightly throughout the rest of the color pie. You're comparing a genus to phylum. I want to combine what blue and green already have to make them better at handling creatures than where they are right now within their pies. My first version of Fluidity is a pie break, and will be rectified.
What you suggest is advice for Simic decks, which is largely limited by format anyways, while I'm talking about design. Dismember addresses the symptoms. I want to treat the disease.
Novijen Amphibimancer UG
Creature - Merfolk Wizard (R)
Flash
When Novijen Amphibimancer enters the battlefield, until end of turn, target creature you don't control loses all abilities and becomes a blue Frog with base power and toughness 1/1.
1/2
Kinda like a Winged Coatl (which performs serious work as Scorpion Wasp in Eternal, but that's another game), except that it can actually survive combat, and also mess with it when you're attacking.
Also as Ravnica lore-friendly Merfolk, it would give fish a reason to actually run green!Changes of the Flesh also needs to be around 6-8 mana, and I'd make it a non-Ravnican UR card. It's combo x removal, or two combo parts, or turn 4 Eldrazi Titan x removal.
Cycle of Evolution already exists and it's called Crib Swap.
Art is life itself.
I always think that reincarnation is a very simic card, even though it is probably closer to golgari or something that cares about life and death. I figured that simic removal would be something more sciency and bio-engineering than fighting creatures together.
Enchantment - Aura (r)
Enchant Nonland Permanent
Enchanted permanent is a blue and green ooze creature with base power and toughness 0/4 and has indestructible, and it loses all other abilities, card types, and creature types.
UG: Return ~ to its owner’s hand. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
Art is life itself.
You're right, I think I went slightly off tangent there.
The way I see UG is, neither color actually straight out destroys a creature. They change and morph, bounce, fight, gain control of. I believe a playable UG spell that reasonably deals with creatures would be a charm of some sort, so that the downsides can be overcome by utility.
Induced Instability 2UG
Instant
Choose two:
- Gain control of target creature with cmc 2 or less
- Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control
- Counter target noncreature spell; create a X/X ooze token, where X is the cmc of the spell countered this way
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Instant
Target creature becomes 0/1 until end of turn, then fights another target creature.
Behind the eyes of truth, is a world of illustions.
Dragon Riderof a Mist Dragonn anyway with the Dragon Riders Clan.
Art is life itself.