This is just a thought experiment that stemmed from my M10ish Core Set idea with 1996 cards.
For each guild, what's the least popular/worst designed existing mechanic that you can think of that would fit that guild mechanically, flavorfully, or however your heart feels is appropriate?
Bonus points if the mechanics in each color are conflicting.
Here's my take, which is about half *****post.
WU: Flagbearer because the Azorius probably have a lot of flags.
WB: Will of the council because the Ghost Council get it?
UB: Mercenary (searching a la Masques), reflecting the Dimir ability to be hired out by anyone and how guild members can call on cells underneath them but don't know the hierarchy above them...or something.
UR: Contraptions? Ripple is a good troll.
BR: Epic but only for parties. Or a mechanic combining flip cards and coin flipping.
BG: Sweep because the Golgari have to get rid of waste on the streets.
RG: Ingest because Gruul like to eat things. Ok fine obviously rampage.
RW: Lieutenant because it's a military rank and the Boros are a military.
GW: Kinship, because Selesnya like their family.
GU: Megamorph, as the Simic create generic vessels for surprising genetic material.
I have a list that sorts every mechanic into guilds and is up-to-date until something between Origins and Kaladesh... I can see banding as either Boros or Selesnya. Skulk could be Dimir. And especially hideaway is high on my list of terrible mechanics that fit Dimir.
Epic felt like a good descriptor for Izzet experiments to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Not intelligible development for Ravinca I would say.
It needs to do too much, and the overhead of a 10 color project just flat out doesn't have to room to squeeze the array of content in just three sets. For any given keyword, operating function, or mechanic, you're looking at an immense overhead involved with providing the fundamental atmosphere (combo materia) for dynamic interactivity and deck-building. Since it's an actual project development, the one thing you don't want to do is only have enough space to provide a skimpy amount of content where only one single deck structure is available. You might as well just develop those standard alone decks and sell them as their own product.
What your suggesting would take like two entire blocks to full develop. And of course, it's easily possible. But otherwise, I would suggest blending various color combinations into more core-essential game elements (combat, control, etc.). Combat is especially a good one, because it's so interactive (for each player to themselves...and each player between one another); it provides a lot of fun so long as the resource dependency is properly balanced between each color. This isn't often something that's the case in MTG development. I find that they tend to be a little blind and biased in their power distribution.
For example, they make sure to put a 2 mana removal spell in every set; but they don't feel comfortable putting a two mana land fetch in every set; which effectively throws the balance of the game environment out of whack. In addition to this, one needs to be mindful that certain interactions have more gravity upon the game environment than others do. Removal is a great example of this. One would traditionally say, "Ugh...Green gets creatures...and Black gets death spells. It's all balanced in the color pie." However, death spells have far more gravity upon the game environment than basic land fetch spells have; because the nature of the removal effect is more dynamic to the game environment. It takes away, which can impact other game elements (such as combat) to a one-sided landslide, as well as take a time-lapsed significance to it (where in which the removal effect is not easily recoverable). These elements can be balanced for more equality amongst sides, but this isn't necessarily bridged properly in MTG set development.
Black also gets creatures too, so there's really no balance at all between the two mediums. It's actually very one-sided, and even land fetch effects don't do enough to balance it by themselves; because then you have the prominent factor of resource availability. You get lands, but you can't draw cards to get creatures. Your opponent has removal, and can set you back a crushing amount of turns in a simple swipe. The balance of interaction is entirely off, even despite the slightly elevated mana capabilities. The puzzle is still missing crucial pieces. Everything really needs to be there in some form to balance the interactive capabilities and bring potential of equality full-circle.
And the same principal is true when you're developing to suit specific keywords, operating functions, or group interactions. You needs lots of room for combo materia; and the more core-elements there are, the less room there is for each one. If you just put a few pieces for each, then it's likely to appear far too monotone, and the crucial element of depth perception will be missing.
Would really just suggest mashing them all up in combat, and then giving them dynamic styles in which how they conduct combat between one another; as a more intuitive way to provide the uniqueness between guilds that you're looking for here.
Yeah not saying this would be a set, more just thinking about how the worst mechanics would shake out into color pairs.
Yeah hideaway is pretty hilarious in that it could be on creatures and stuff but they ETB tapped. I recall Jimmy Groove I believe had a mechanic he called Plot that was kind of similar in that stuff let you exile your own cards, and then other abilities gave you access to those cards. Something like that would be an actual good fit for the Dimir possibly.
Could also add that some colors could have themes in which set up for alternative win conditions, while their combat material strives to defend or stall the combat pace.
If we're talking worst-designed and not just underpowered, there's also...
'Phasing' for Azorius,
'Storm' for Izzet (or 'splice onto arcane', and make sure that all the arcane spells still suck ),
'Gravestorm' for Rakdos,
'Aura swap' for Simic (though I actually kind of like that one),
'Poisonous' for Golgari,
'Absorb' for Selesnya
'Dethrone' for Gruul (they want their day in the sun!),
'Bushido' for Boros ooh! ooh! nevermind. Boros gets 'fortify' and a bunch of fortification-matters cards! There specifically needs to be a reprint of Darksteel Garrison and a 3 CMC white spell that destroys all unfortified lands so that fortifications matter, but DG in particular is still useless compared to other fortifications.
Grounded AcrobatRB
Creature - Goblin (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you win the flip, flip Grounded Acrobat.
1/3
//
Soaring Acrobat
Creature - Goblin (U)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, flip Soaring Acrobat.
3/1
Grounded AcrobatRB
Creature - Goblin (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you win the flip, flip Grounded Acrobat.
1/3
//
Soaring Acrobat
Creature - Goblin (U)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, flip Soaring Acrobat.
3/1
It says bad things about me how much I enjoy this design.
Well, I did specify the new arcane cards would still need to suck.
In all honesty I'm really excited for 'Splice onto Instant' or 'Splice onto Sorcery' or something else much more modular. I really want to run Veil of Secrecy in a bunch of different Commander decks, but there are nowhere near enough other good arcane spells to make it work.
Aura swap is really neat as a one-off mechanic, but focusing on it also requires there to be a whole bunch of Simic auras, and auras are an inherently disadvantaged card type. Still, I could totally see a new ravnica set where almost all green and blue auras have aura swap, with the idea being you can draft auras of other colors and pay the green/blue aura swap cost to cheat them in without having those colors.
Dethrone is neat in principle but you can never rely on it, especially in 1v1. It's even worse in red-green since those colors are focused on damage and getting through with large creatures, so you're almost always going to have more life than the opponent.
I admit that fortify might actually work, especially for Boros. Really it just has a bad rep more than anything due to the one existing fortification.
The functionality of Echo is really so poor, it shouldn't have made its way into being a full-fledged keyword. The ability is even more resource-demanding than Cumulative upkeep, and the ability to use this effect intuitively has little to no uniqueness available. It's basically all redundant to other effects, or could be spelled out simply without the needfor Echo. Hate to say it's entirely impossible to design around, but that the functionality of it doesn't add any dynamic fun to the game. It can be used to prolong games (with the resource expensure), but it doesn't necessarily add any dynamic fun factors of action, suspense, horror, interactivity, or challenge to the game.
For each guild, what's the least popular/worst designed existing mechanic that you can think of that would fit that guild mechanically, flavorfully, or however your heart feels is appropriate?
Bonus points if the mechanics in each color are conflicting.
Here's my take, which is about half *****post.
Whatcha got
Epic felt like a good descriptor for Izzet experiments to me.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
It needs to do too much, and the overhead of a 10 color project just flat out doesn't have to room to squeeze the array of content in just three sets. For any given keyword, operating function, or mechanic, you're looking at an immense overhead involved with providing the fundamental atmosphere (combo materia) for dynamic interactivity and deck-building. Since it's an actual project development, the one thing you don't want to do is only have enough space to provide a skimpy amount of content where only one single deck structure is available. You might as well just develop those standard alone decks and sell them as their own product.
What your suggesting would take like two entire blocks to full develop. And of course, it's easily possible. But otherwise, I would suggest blending various color combinations into more core-essential game elements (combat, control, etc.). Combat is especially a good one, because it's so interactive (for each player to themselves...and each player between one another); it provides a lot of fun so long as the resource dependency is properly balanced between each color. This isn't often something that's the case in MTG development. I find that they tend to be a little blind and biased in their power distribution.
For example, they make sure to put a 2 mana removal spell in every set; but they don't feel comfortable putting a two mana land fetch in every set; which effectively throws the balance of the game environment out of whack. In addition to this, one needs to be mindful that certain interactions have more gravity upon the game environment than others do. Removal is a great example of this. One would traditionally say, "Ugh...Green gets creatures...and Black gets death spells. It's all balanced in the color pie." However, death spells have far more gravity upon the game environment than basic land fetch spells have; because the nature of the removal effect is more dynamic to the game environment. It takes away, which can impact other game elements (such as combat) to a one-sided landslide, as well as take a time-lapsed significance to it (where in which the removal effect is not easily recoverable). These elements can be balanced for more equality amongst sides, but this isn't necessarily bridged properly in MTG set development.
Black also gets creatures too, so there's really no balance at all between the two mediums. It's actually very one-sided, and even land fetch effects don't do enough to balance it by themselves; because then you have the prominent factor of resource availability. You get lands, but you can't draw cards to get creatures. Your opponent has removal, and can set you back a crushing amount of turns in a simple swipe. The balance of interaction is entirely off, even despite the slightly elevated mana capabilities. The puzzle is still missing crucial pieces. Everything really needs to be there in some form to balance the interactive capabilities and bring potential of equality full-circle.
And the same principal is true when you're developing to suit specific keywords, operating functions, or group interactions. You needs lots of room for combo materia; and the more core-elements there are, the less room there is for each one. If you just put a few pieces for each, then it's likely to appear far too monotone, and the crucial element of depth perception will be missing.
Would really just suggest mashing them all up in combat, and then giving them dynamic styles in which how they conduct combat between one another; as a more intuitive way to provide the uniqueness between guilds that you're looking for here.
Yeah hideaway is pretty hilarious in that it could be on creatures and stuff but they ETB tapped. I recall Jimmy Groove I believe had a mechanic he called Plot that was kind of similar in that stuff let you exile your own cards, and then other abilities gave you access to those cards. Something like that would be an actual good fit for the Dimir possibly.
If we're talking worst-designed and not just underpowered, there's also...
'Phasing' for Azorius,
'Storm' for Izzet (or 'splice onto arcane', and make sure that all the arcane spells still suck ),
'Gravestorm' for Rakdos,
'Aura swap' for Simic (though I actually kind of like that one),
'Poisonous' for Golgari,
'Absorb' for Selesnya
'Dethrone' for Gruul (they want their day in the sun!),
'Bushido' for Borosooh! ooh! nevermind. Boros gets 'fortify' and a bunch of fortification-matters cards! There specifically needs to be a reprint of Darksteel Garrison and a 3 CMC white spell that destroys all unfortified lands so that fortifications matter, but DG in particular is still useless compared to other fortifications.and Orzhov... well, Orzhov already has 'haunt'.
- Rabid Wombat
Creature - Goblin (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you win the flip, flip Grounded Acrobat.
1/3
//
Soaring Acrobat
Creature - Goblin (U)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, flip Soaring Acrobat.
3/1
It says bad things about me how much I enjoy this design.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Well, I did specify the new arcane cards would still need to suck.
In all honesty I'm really excited for 'Splice onto Instant' or 'Splice onto Sorcery' or something else much more modular. I really want to run Veil of Secrecy in a bunch of different Commander decks, but there are nowhere near enough other good arcane spells to make it work.
Aura swap is really neat as a one-off mechanic, but focusing on it also requires there to be a whole bunch of Simic auras, and auras are an inherently disadvantaged card type. Still, I could totally see a new ravnica set where almost all green and blue auras have aura swap, with the idea being you can draft auras of other colors and pay the green/blue aura swap cost to cheat them in without having those colors.
Dethrone is neat in principle but you can never rely on it, especially in 1v1. It's even worse in red-green since those colors are focused on damage and getting through with large creatures, so you're almost always going to have more life than the opponent.
I admit that fortify might actually work, especially for Boros. Really it just has a bad rep more than anything due to the one existing fortification.
- Rabid Wombat
Gruul: Rampage, obviously
Azorius: Cumulative upkeep
Simic: Amplify (not bad with hybrid mutant creatures with a lot of creature types)
Selesnya: Affinity for tapped creatures
Izzet: Echo
Orzhov: Soulshift, or better yet Tribute. maybe Offering?
Dimir: Vanishing, or better (worse) yet Conspire
Rakdos: Escalate? maybe Transfigure?
Golgari: Recover
Izzet: Echo
I think you mean Rebound functionality-wise.
The functionality of Echo is really so poor, it shouldn't have made its way into being a full-fledged keyword. The ability is even more resource-demanding than Cumulative upkeep, and the ability to use this effect intuitively has little to no uniqueness available. It's basically all redundant to other effects, or could be spelled out simply without the need for Echo. Hate to say it's entirely impossible to design around, but that the functionality of it doesn't add any dynamic fun to the game. It can be used to prolong games (with the resource expensure), but it doesn't necessarily add any dynamic fun factors of action, suspense, horror, interactivity, or challenge to the game.
- Rabid Wombat
Echo...
...Echo...
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝