The can't be blocked ability makes deathtouch and trample awkward. Deathtouch on such a large creature is already fairly redundant, the trample means it could be relevant, but the blocking restriction means it will almost never be blocked, and often when it is the blockers will be 1/1s.
The can't be blocked ability makes deathtouch and trample awkward. Deathtouch on such a large creature is already fairly redundant, the trample means it could be relevant, but the blocking restriction means it will almost never be blocked, and often when it is the blockers will be 1/1s.
So what you're saying is: Get rid of either the blocking restriction or the trample + deathtouch.
I don't think keyword soup is the way to go with Progenitus. You could fit all of those keywords in monogreen (although admittedly vigilance and haste are usually only on very heavily green cards, and monocolor keyword soup is usually a white thing). You could say similar things about Chromanticore, but I think that's the reason why it wasn't a legendary card. A five-color card can have a keyword-per-color, but it's not particularly memorable or compelling. The only thing that saves Chromanticore is Bestow.
The trademark of Progenitus ("protection from everything") is a single, almost comically powerful ability ("yes, Progenitus does have protection from forests"). If you want to capture the flavor of Progenitus, you should probably try something along those lines, preferably with wording that gives a comical sense of finality. It's pretty difficult to design those abilities. You could try something almost silver-border levels of strange, like "Progenitus can't be affected by spells or abilities."
I don't think keyword soup is the way to go with Progenitus. You could fit all of those keywords in monogreen (although admittedly vigilance and haste are usually only on very heavily green cards, and monocolor keyword soup is usually a white thing). You could say similar things about Chromanticore, but I think that's the reason why it wasn't a legendary card. A five-color card can have a keyword-per-color, but it's not particularly memorable or compelling. The only thing that saves Chromanticore is Bestow.
The trademark of Progenitus ("protection from everything") is a single, almost comically powerful ability ("yes, Progenitus does have protection from forests"). If you want to capture the flavor of Progenitus, you should probably try something along those lines, preferably with wording that gives a comical sense of finality. It's pretty difficult to design those abilities. You could try something almost silver-border levels of strange, like "Progenitus can't be affected by spells or abilities."
Well, it probably shouldn't be a keyword if only one card will ever have it.
A better approach would be "Progenitus, Soul of the World can't die. (It can't be sacrificed and can't be put into a graveyard from the battlefield.)"
It's a bizarrely final statement with interesting but resolvable rules implications. It's also mostly intuitive until cards like Anafenza, the Foremost get involved, but still has a logical resolution even then (being put into exile from the battlefield is not dying, so Anafenza makes it mortal again).
You would also probably want some sort of offensive ability or evasion so it doesn't just get chumped all day. Maybe just trample or something.
It's a bizarrely final statement with interesting but resolvable rules implications. It's also mostly intuitive until cards like Anafenza, the Foremost get involved, but still has a logical resolution even then (being put into exile from the battlefield is not dying, so Anafenza makes it mortal again).
Anafenza wouldn't make this progenitus mortal, because it can't die the event of being put into the graveyard will never occur for anafenza to replace. Though the problems of sacrifice is still there.
Because you are making progenitus it is going to be compared to the previous version, and this one simply doesn't stand up that well. The plethora of keywords worked better to match the feel of a supreme entity, while immortality could be cool, it doesn't have the right feel for a world soul like creature. Pregenitus should feel more devastating, the current version simply feels annoying.
Anafenza wouldn't make this progenitus mortal, because it can't die the event of being put into the graveyard will never occur for anafenza to replace.
You are incorrect. Replacement effects can replace actions/events that would be stopped from other effects.
You can ask an authority how Maralen of the Mornsong (denying card draw) and Abundance (replacing card draw) interact, but in general "can't" prevents an event fro occuring, but does not prevent the event from being replaced.
Which makes sense. If you can't kick someone (in a boxing tournament or while wearing concrete shoes) and replace all your kicks with punches, you are punching just fine. Replaced events never even attempt to occur, so the ability denying that event never even notices them.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Anafenza wouldn't make this progenitus mortal, because it can't die the event of being put into the graveyard will never occur for anafenza to replace.
You are incorrect. Replacement effects can replace actions/events that would be stopped from other effects.
You can ask an authority how Maralen of the Mornsong (denying card draw) and Abundance (replacing card draw) interact, but in general "can't" prevents an event fro occuring, but does not prevent the event from being replaced.
Which makes sense. If you can't kick someone (in a boxing tournament or while wearing concrete shoes) and replace all your kicks with punches, you are punching just fine. Replaced events never even attempt to occur, so the ability denying that event never even notices them.
The rulings on Maralen specifically contradict what you are saying. You don't even need to ask anyone it's right on the linked page.
Progenitus, Soul of the World WWUUBBRRGG
Legendary Creature - Hydra Avatar
If ~ would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
10/10
Progenitus, Soul of the World WWUUBBRRGG
Legendary Creature - Hydra Avatar
If ~ would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
10/10
Wouldn't that make it basically impossible to get rid of?
You are incorrect. Replacement effects can replace actions/events that would be stopped from other effects.
The CR has a rule that explicitly contradicts this.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn't do anything.
If an event "can't" happen, it never happens, by definition. If a replacement effect is looking for that event to happen, it won't ever be able to, so the replacement effect can't ever do anything.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
You could try Rules Lawyer, "State-based actions don't apply to Progenitus" but it's likely that super weird stuff would happen like staying on the battlefield after its owner dies or something.
I also like "Progentius can't be blocked except by ten or more creatures" as a ludicrous evasion ability if you need one.
The first one is obviously the alpha, regarding truly divine and unique effects (Phage the Untouchable, Platinum Angel, Platinum Emperion). However, I think the wording composure is best spelt out entirely rather than abbreviated with Indestructible. I also think that "has" is a poor conjunction for the keyword Indestructible. It should have remained in the style style as Unblockable, which also should have been changed for the best context.
How about "Progenitus can't be blocked or killed except by ten or more creatures."?
Unfortunately creatures don't kill creatures, damage does. That's the reason why a lot of cards like Blood Cultist have the clunky "creature dealt damage this turn by ~ dies" clause.
Progenitus, Soul of the World WWUUBBRRGG
Legendary Creature - Hydra Avatar
If ~ would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
10/10
Wouldn't that make it basically impossible to get rid of?
Mana Cost: WWUUBBRRGG
Power/Toughness: 10/10
Legendary Creature - Hydra Avatar
Progenitus can't die. (It can't be sacrificed, has indestructible and can't die due to having 0 or less toughness.)
If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library.
Progenitus, Soul of the World (Version 2)
Mana Cost: WWUUBBRRGG
Power/Toughness: 10/10
Legendary Creature - Hydra Avatar
Vigilance, hexproof, deathtouch, haste, trample
If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library.
So what you're saying is: Get rid of either the blocking restriction or the trample + deathtouch.
The trademark of Progenitus ("protection from everything") is a single, almost comically powerful ability ("yes, Progenitus does have protection from forests"). If you want to capture the flavor of Progenitus, you should probably try something along those lines, preferably with wording that gives a comical sense of finality. It's pretty difficult to design those abilities. You could try something almost silver-border levels of strange, like "Progenitus can't be affected by spells or abilities."
- Rabid Wombat
Is what I have now kooky enough?
A better approach would be "Progenitus, Soul of the World can't die. (It can't be sacrificed and can't be put into a graveyard from the battlefield.)"
It's a bizarrely final statement with interesting but resolvable rules implications. It's also mostly intuitive until cards like Anafenza, the Foremost get involved, but still has a logical resolution even then (being put into exile from the battlefield is not dying, so Anafenza makes it mortal again).
You would also probably want some sort of offensive ability or evasion so it doesn't just get chumped all day. Maybe just trample or something.
- Rabid Wombat
Because you are making progenitus it is going to be compared to the previous version, and this one simply doesn't stand up that well. The plethora of keywords worked better to match the feel of a supreme entity, while immortality could be cool, it doesn't have the right feel for a world soul like creature. Pregenitus should feel more devastating, the current version simply feels annoying.
You are incorrect. Replacement effects can replace actions/events that would be stopped from other effects.
You can ask an authority how Maralen of the Mornsong (denying card draw) and Abundance (replacing card draw) interact, but in general "can't" prevents an event fro occuring, but does not prevent the event from being replaced.
Which makes sense. If you can't kick someone (in a boxing tournament or while wearing concrete shoes) and replace all your kicks with punches, you are punching just fine. Replaced events never even attempt to occur, so the ability denying that event never even notices them.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Progenitus, Soul of the World
WWUUBBRRGG
Legendary Creature - Hydra Avatar
If ~ would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
10/10
Wouldn't that make it basically impossible to get rid of?
The CR has a rule that explicitly contradicts this.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Even if it can't die, it can still be bounced, exiled or spun into myth.
I did it that way because the original is also difficult to get rid of, but not impossible.
"If ~ would die, exile it instead, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control."
Same thing, but now limited to dying. It's not quite as concise as "This can't die," but it's less ambiguous.
I also like "Progentius can't be blocked except by ten or more creatures" as a ludicrous evasion ability if you need one.
How about "Progenitus can't be blocked or killed except by ten or more creatures."?
- Rabid Wombat
So very specific types of effects being able to deal with it makes it almost lousy?