So I'm still experimenting with the card frame. This time I wanted to challenge myself to go as far away from MTG's current style as possible while still improving on the functionality. Notable changes:
- Color isn't emphasized as much, but is still signaled by the medallion symbols at the top of the card for deck-building. A lot of people have given me a lot of feedback on my thread about card color, and I'm inclined to agree with it, but I want to be sure. Testing my theory is better than just having hypothetical conversations.
- Full art. At this point, I'm not concerned about the ability to reprint existing Magic cards.
- Though both of these are creature cards, I intend to use different style elements to represent the different card types. For example, creatures will all have the sword as the nameplate, whereas lands will look like part of a map, artifacts will look like part of a treasure chest, etc.
- Power and toughness symbols. One less thing that must be taught.
- Borderless. If the Unstable basic lands can pull it off, then these can.
Problems that still need to be solved:
- Still not sure where to put the card type line. I'm experimenting for now with just using the card frame to denote card type, but eventually I'll have to put the word somewhere.
- The rupee mana symbols are problematic for the color blind crowd, and are a bit more limited than the current suite of Magic mana symbols.
- I need to eventually make room for copyright/collector info.
Anyway, here they are. Tell me what you like, what you don't like, and what you would change.
One last thing. I pulled my materials for these renders from a lot of sources. That includes every symbol and piece of art on these cards, which are a mix of official Nintendo art and fan art, all of it being absolutely gorgeous. Unfortunately, I'm not able to track down the original sources to give credit, but these are only testing frames. If I do ever end up actually making a card game, these won't be used.
I don't think it necessary to put power and toughness on the type line. The lower-right corner works just fine. Right now it looks awkwardly bare. That will also leave you room for the card type and the rarity symbol.
I would use the Medallion symbols in place of mana symbols. Rupees can be artifact tokens much like Gold or Treasure. You might consider trying Triforce font for card names.
A neat text box effect would be semi-transparency like the games often use, perhaps a dark coloration with white text. You could even be cute with color highlights for things like the card name and special actions.
Otherwise, very neat template.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Medallions would be a fine solution to the rupee problem. It also helps they they aren't so gratuitously vertical. It is ok that they look bad as hybrid symbols since hybrid was a mistake. Right now your temp fails the Progenitus test and quite possibly a less demanding test like Commands or whatnot.
You could possibly stack repeated symbols
The triforce symbol seems unmotivated and weird
I dislike the asymmetrically indented corners on the text box
I think as long as you're doing a massive redesign like this you should fix some mechanical problems like how Legendary eats half of a type line
Your tap symbol is cute
I'm generally just not convinced by the extreme colorfulness of this style and the large amount of transparency. These both put constraints on the illustrations that you're bumping into in both of your renders.
You might get some mileage out of factionalizing the power and toughness symbols and the title bar; a Ganon card should not have a Master Sword and Hylian Shield on it.
I also notice no activated abilities costing mana/rupee which is telling because it avoids facing the visual issue that leads to the tap symbol being designed similar to generic mana in the first place.
Moving power toughness far apart from each other is a strict mistake. Moving them this far from the position where they are usually found is a failure to incorporate learnt behavior into your considerations.
Have you shown your rupees to a colorblind person? Do you think a colorblind person can tell whether a cost contains more than a single point of mana. Blue is a very dominant color and since blue is one of the colors of mana/rupee that seems like a bad choice. When in doubt try a color that is not associated with the color wheel or a more desaturated version.
Printing card types on cards is an important teaching tool. If a card e. g. says "Destroy target creature." it helps a new player to know whether a permanent is a creature if they can find that word printed on it.
I can only wonder how players would recognize an artifact card if only supertypes and subtypes appear on the type line.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I don't think it necessary to put power and toughness on the type line. The lower-right corner works just fine. Right now it looks awkwardly bare. That will also leave you room for the card type and the rarity symbol.
I would use the Medallion symbols in place of mana symbols. Rupees can be artifact tokens much like Gold or Treasure. You might consider trying Triforce font for card names...
I actually had the medallions as the mana symbols in my first iteration of this, but I ran into the problem of "what do I use for the generic mana symbol?" I could just have a bubble with a number in it, like with current Magic cards, but then the mana symbols aren't uniform and could easily be confused for different things, not to mention it mixes numbers with individual symbols, which I don't like due to inconsistency. The rupees are all uniform, so it's easy to tell that they all mean the same thing. Plus, using rupees allows me to use the medallions as "color signals" for deck building. I agree, the rupees aren't ideal, but how would you make medallions work?
Also, thanks for pointing out the Triforce font. I'll add that right away.
A neat text box effect would be semi-transparency like the games often use, perhaps a dark coloration with white text. You could even be cute with color highlights for things like the card name and special actions.
Otherwise, very neat template.
Is there something wrong with the frosted-glass effect I'm using?
Medallions would be a fine solution to the rupee problem. It also helps they they aren't so gratuitously vertical. It is ok that they look bad as hybrid symbols since hybrid was a mistake. Right now your temp fails the Progenitus test and quite possibly a less demanding test like Commands or whatnot.
You could possibly stack repeated symbols
I agree that the rupee symbols take up more vertical space than I like, but they are shaped in such a way that they could easily be laid out in a sort of zig-zag pattern, doubling the availible vertical space while using minimal horizontal space. That way, it passes the Progenitus test with flying colors.
That said, again, you're right. The rupees aren't ideal. What would you use for generic mana with medallions? Is that worth not having access to the "color signals" the medallions are being used for now?
The triforce symbol seems unmotivated and weird
I dislike the asymmetrically indented corners on the text box
They're style choices that have minimal impact on the functionality of the card. Makes it feel more Zelda-y. Other than that, they don't really serve a purpose.
I think as long as you're doing a massive redesign like this you should fix some mechanical problems like how Legendary eats half of a type line
This is part of the reason I separate the card type from suptypes and made Legendary a subtype. No rules baggage and on a separate line, it has much more space. Although, I have considered going back to just using "Legend" instead of "Legendary," but I'm not convinced that's necessary.
Your tap symbol is cute
Thanks It felt wrong to just copy and paste Magic's tap symbol.
I'm generally just not convinced by the extreme colorfulness of this style and the large amount of transparency. These both put constraints on the illustrations that you're bumping into in both of your renders.
You should read some Magic art commissions. There are already plenty of constraints put on the artists. Telling them to "keep the focus on the upper half of the card" doesn't seem like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. Artists can achieve amazing things in the face of restriction.
You might get some mileage out of factionalizing the power and toughness symbols and the title bar; a Ganon card should not have a Master Sword and Hylian Shield on it.
I thought about that too, and before I get into it, it's important to note that this problem doesn't always apply outside of the Zelda theme. I wanted to keep things as consistent as possible, and I worry that, in using the frame to help denote card type, using different styles for the same card type can overwhelm players. Sure, I could hypothetically use Demise's sword instead of the master sword if I chose to make a Demise card,
but that would be changing a visual cue without changing what that visual cue mechanically implies, which is dangerous. Also, if I could, I would absolutely use more neutral colors for those design elements, but I'm pretty much limited to what I can find on google for these test frames.
Great question. I stated originally that rupees are more limited than traditional mana symbols, and this is one example. Like I've said above, feel free to suggest better ways to do mana, especially generic mana.
I also notice no activated abilities costing mana/rupee which is telling because it avoids facing the visual issue that leads to the tap symbol being designed similar to generic mana in the first place.
I'm thinking I'll just use the rupee symbols in the text boxes the same way they're used in the mana cost. I whipped up the tap symbol without worrying about style simply because I needed something, but given more time (and resources), I would absolutely make a more stylized one to line up with the visual style of the rest of the symbols on the card. It's just not something I was super worried about at the time.
Moving power toughness far apart from each other is a strict mistake. Moving them this far from the position where they are usually found is a failure to incorporate learnt behavior into your considerations.
Learnt behavior is actually one of the very things I'm trying to minimize with this project. Magic players had to learn where the power and toughness were, and what each of those numbers meant. They had to learn that 2Gmeans "three mana total, one being green" instead of "two green mana." They had to learn that creatures have summoning sickness and don't need to tap to block.
What I'm trying to do is create less learnt behavior and more intuitive behavior.
One of my frustrations with a lot of the feedback that I get, particularly from Magic players, is that it often amounts to "Why not just do it the way Magic does it?" In some situations, that's perfectly valid, but every change I make has a purpose. So many Magic players have suggested that the power and toughness be in the lower right corner, and I have yet to hear a compelling reason why that is functionally superior to any other possible placement. It's more just "I'm used to it being there" than it is "It works better there."
All that said, I can see the argument for them being too far apart and am open to suggestions as to where they can actually be more effective, rather than just putting them out of the way of everything else.
Have you shown your rupees to a colorblind person? Do you think a colorblind person can tell whether a cost contains more than a single point of mana. Blue is a very dominant color and since blue is one of the colors of mana/rupee that seems like a bad choice. When in doubt try a color that is not associated with the color wheel or a more desaturated version.
Yeah, as I said above, I would use more neutral colors if I could. I'll remember that as I'm moving towards a more finalized version.
Printing card types on cards is an important teaching tool. If a card e. g. says "Destroy target creature." it helps a new player to know whether a permanent is a creature if they can find that word printed on it.
I can only wonder how players would recognize an artifact card if only supertypes and subtypes appear on the type line.
I'm aware that this is the most glaring issue, but I'm still experimenting with a better place to put the card type. Any suggestions?
I actually had the medallions as the mana symbols in my first iteration of this, but I ran into the problem of "what do I use for the generic mana symbol?" I could just have a bubble with a number in it, like with current Magic cards, but then the mana symbols aren't uniform and could easily be confused for different things, not to mention it mixes numbers with individual symbols, which I don't like due to inconsistency. The rupees are all uniform, so it's easy to tell that they all mean the same thing. Plus, using rupees allows me to use the medallions as "color signals" for deck building. I agree, the rupees aren't ideal, but how would you make medallions work?
I would use a grey medallion with no symbol but rather a number. Basically like how mana costs look, but fancier.
One of my frustrations with a lot of the feedback that I get, particularly from Magic players, is that it often amounts to "Why not just do it the way Magic does it?" In some situations, that's perfectly valid, but every change I make has a purpose. So many Magic players have suggested that the power and toughness be in the lower right corner, and I have yet to hear a compelling reason why that is functionally superior to any other possible placement. It's more just "I'm used to it being there" than it is "It works better there."
Mostly it has to do with information conveyance. The standard Magic template can be broken down into a few parts:
Name Cost
Picture
Supertype Type - Subtype (Set Symbol + Rarity)
Rules Text Flavor Text
(Misc. Info including collector number, set code, and rarity code) (Rare/Mythic Holo Tag) Power/Toughness
P/T slots neatly into the bottom right corner vertically opposite the mana cost and horizontally opposite the Misc. Info. If you look at the various bits of information as blocks, it switches between 1 and 2-block layers, with the bottom layer adding a third block for rares and mythics.
I can only wonder how players would recognize an artifact card if only supertypes and subtypes appear on the type line.
I'm aware that this is the most glaring issue, but I'm still experimenting with a better place to put the card type. Any suggestions?
Well, if writing the card type out doesn't work I would try using a layered spherical indicator, with the main layer representing the card type (see the Future Sight type symbols) and optional layers indicating things like legendary or snow. Legendary gives a golden border, snow gives an icy border, etc. Then you only have to write the subtypes out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Here's a new variation on the layout. Trying to balance out the mana cost with the p/t, which also brings the p and t closer together. Also changed the mana cost to use a number for generic mana, but hopefully the diamond-shaped bubble around the mana cost should help unify it. Added the card type back to the type line for now, but I don't like it being there, and I'm experimenting with other placements.
Looks much better. I like the bubble for the mana cost over the way it was before.
One important test for this is finding some artworks with different color palets and check how well the indivual pieces stand out with variant paletts and art styles - though by now the only doodads that don't have a clearly delined opaque background are the p/t icons, so this will probably not an issue (could have been before the mana cost "bubble").
Aesthetically the frame is top-heavy with doodads (rupees; p/t; the sword for the name; emblems for color indication) while the bottom is just dominated by a single fairly unadorned text box/type line block. This means the colors of the artwork will be dominant except for the top third were it will be dominated by frame objects. This is something I would like to see with different example illustrations to judge the actual visual weight. I think the fact that the blue blends well with the sky and the green/yellow goes well with the colors of Link and the foreground.
One isue I spot at first glance: I see no inherent benefit to moving legendary from the left site of the hyphen to the right. Understanding that a supertype is not a subtype is traditionally more important than understanding that a supertype is not a card type.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I didn't want to start a new one to follow an old discussion. I've only had time recently to work on these, and I've made a few changes that I want to get some feedback on.
First, I ditched the p/t symbols, as some people found them hard to see ontop of the art and didn't know what they were. I've added a bubble to the P/T to give the text some background.
Secondly, I have a version with Rupee symbols and one with Medallion symbols. I personally think the medallions look better, but personally don't like to use them as the mana cost, as Rupees are much more associated with paying for things. This version also has the same kind of text boxes/bubbles as the main text box.
The second version makes the mana cost and p/t bubbles as well as the type plate black. I tried that because with the transparent boxes/bubbles ontop of the art, it felt like there was a lot going on and it strained the eyes a bit. The high-contrast white on black helps keep the focus where it needs to be, but I'm not sure how well it meshes with the rest of the card.
I also changed the color of the sword to grey to be more neutral.
Finally, I've ditched the medallion color indicators. People found those in addition to the mana cost to be confusing.
Aside from that, just a bit of resizing and texturing changes as well as a watermark.
Edit: One last thing I'm experimenting with is bolded keywords. I made a thread a while ago about bolded keywords, mainly focusing on the Cairn Wanderer ability, but there are other reasons as well. I just wanted to see how it looks here.
I like the latest, specialy the one that uses the Medalions for mana over the rupies, I don't like the New P/T though, I personally liked it better on the text line (Then again, I'm odd. I also liked it better backed by the Sword/Shield, but with gannon it doesn't fit flavorwise, maybe goahead and make them color/faction specific, back it by the Triforce, most players are intuitive and put power first.
I like the layout of the card overall, with some points of contention.
I much prefer the rupee icons over the medallions, they have a cleaner appearance. However, I dislike the use of the number to indicate additional generic mana contrasted with the multiple colored symbols for individual colored mana. I would like to see each mana requirement be a rupee containing a numeral, thus indicating the amount of each color required, including a gray rupee for the generic requirement.
I like the look and placement of the power and toughness, but I dislike using the abbreviations to indicate which is which. This would be an appropriate place to bring back the sword and shield icons from portal. Using abbreviated text to distinguish them has the potential to not work in the case of translations.
I've seen your attempts to alter the type line. While I do want to see the type and subtypes on the type line, there is not reason to keep the supertype there with them. Supertypes are such an odd addition, they could warrant they own line or marker anywhere on the card. A thin golden ribbon above the name proudly declaring "Legendary" would make these characters feel all the more impactful, while maintaining game-relevant information.
I definitely prefer the use of medallions for mana symbols. However, I would give generic mana costs their own grey medallion as right now the white number looks like it's saying you need four black and four red mana. If you don't want a generic grey medallion, you could always try using a grey circle similar to a gamepad button.
Personally, I think Rupees would better serve you as artifact tokens much akin to Gold and Treasure, or possibly as counters like energy or even as a second life-like resource. Then you could have Rupee cost abilities on your cards (and "pay three Rupees" or "pay 3 Rupees" sounds better than "sacrifice three Rupees").
I can appreciate you experimenting with the mana cost and P/T locations, but part of the reason I would stick with the original layout is so the corners don't feel naked and like wasted space, and so the cost and p/t boxes don't cover up part of the art. I would guess the latter point is the real reason they have the cost and p/t laid out as they do now.
Writing the P/T out horizontally also keeps consistent with P/T modifier effects on cards; right now the player has to rotate the numbers' orientation 90° to make sense. And with the added PWR and TGH text, how did you plan on writing out P/T modifiers on cards? What would Giant Growth look like in this set?
While this isn't a layout nitpick per se, wouldn't Ganon make more sense as a Demon Beast? Or Boar Demon?
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I didn't check whether you made that change in an earlier version already, but power and toughness together in the same corner is a step up from an earlier version I recall.
There is inherent benefit to have them next to each other rather than on top of each other, but that's been mentioned already.
There is no multiplicator next to the "black" rupee, so it's clearly one purple and four red rupee.
Conclusion: There needs to be an outline around a numerical to make certain it is not applied to another symbol - MtG had this outline from the very beginning and I don't see why you dropped it.
How will multiple of the same colored mana work with this layout? Stacked? Overlapping? That would be a cool technology to try and improve costs heavy on colored mana/rupee.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
- Color isn't emphasized as much, but is still signaled by the medallion symbols at the top of the card for deck-building. A lot of people have given me a lot of feedback on my thread about card color, and I'm inclined to agree with it, but I want to be sure. Testing my theory is better than just having hypothetical conversations.
- Full art. At this point, I'm not concerned about the ability to reprint existing Magic cards.
- Though both of these are creature cards, I intend to use different style elements to represent the different card types. For example, creatures will all have the sword as the nameplate, whereas lands will look like part of a map, artifacts will look like part of a treasure chest, etc.
- Power and toughness symbols. One less thing that must be taught.
- Borderless. If the Unstable basic lands can pull it off, then these can.
Problems that still need to be solved:
- Still not sure where to put the card type line. I'm experimenting for now with just using the card frame to denote card type, but eventually I'll have to put the word somewhere.
- The rupee mana symbols are problematic for the color blind crowd, and are a bit more limited than the current suite of Magic mana symbols.
- I need to eventually make room for copyright/collector info.
Anyway, here they are. Tell me what you like, what you don't like, and what you would change.
One last thing. I pulled my materials for these renders from a lot of sources. That includes every symbol and piece of art on these cards, which are a mix of official Nintendo art and fan art, all of it being absolutely gorgeous. Unfortunately, I'm not able to track down the original sources to give credit, but these are only testing frames. If I do ever end up actually making a card game, these won't be used.
I would use the Medallion symbols in place of mana symbols. Rupees can be artifact tokens much like Gold or Treasure. You might consider trying Triforce font for card names.
A neat text box effect would be semi-transparency like the games often use, perhaps a dark coloration with white text. You could even be cute with color highlights for things like the card name and special actions.
Otherwise, very neat template.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
You could possibly stack repeated symbols
The triforce symbol seems unmotivated and weird
I dislike the asymmetrically indented corners on the text box
I think as long as you're doing a massive redesign like this you should fix some mechanical problems like how Legendary eats half of a type line
Your tap symbol is cute
I'm generally just not convinced by the extreme colorfulness of this style and the large amount of transparency. These both put constraints on the illustrations that you're bumping into in both of your renders.
You might get some mileage out of factionalizing the power and toughness symbols and the title bar; a Ganon card should not have a Master Sword and Hylian Shield on it.
I also notice no activated abilities costing mana/rupee which is telling because it avoids facing the visual issue that leads to the tap symbol being designed similar to generic mana in the first place.
Moving power toughness far apart from each other is a strict mistake. Moving them this far from the position where they are usually found is a failure to incorporate learnt behavior into your considerations.
Have you shown your rupees to a colorblind person? Do you think a colorblind person can tell whether a cost contains more than a single point of mana.Blue is a very dominant color and since blue is one of the colors of mana/rupee that seems like a bad choice. When in doubt try a color that is not associated with the color wheel or a more desaturated version.Printing card types on cards is an important teaching tool. If a card e. g. says "Destroy target creature." it helps a new player to know whether a permanent is a creature if they can find that word printed on it.
I can only wonder how players would recognize an artifact card if only supertypes and subtypes appear on the type line.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Also, thanks for pointing out the Triforce font. I'll add that right away.
Is there something wrong with the frosted-glass effect I'm using?
And thank you
I agree that the rupee symbols take up more vertical space than I like, but they are shaped in such a way that they could easily be laid out in a sort of zig-zag pattern, doubling the availible vertical space while using minimal horizontal space. That way, it passes the Progenitus test with flying colors.
That said, again, you're right. The rupees aren't ideal. What would you use for generic mana with medallions? Is that worth not having access to the "color signals" the medallions are being used for now?
They're style choices that have minimal impact on the functionality of the card. Makes it feel more Zelda-y. Other than that, they don't really serve a purpose.
This is part of the reason I separate the card type from suptypes and made Legendary a subtype. No rules baggage and on a separate line, it has much more space. Although, I have considered going back to just using "Legend" instead of "Legendary," but I'm not convinced that's necessary.
Thanks It felt wrong to just copy and paste Magic's tap symbol.
You should read some Magic art commissions. There are already plenty of constraints put on the artists. Telling them to "keep the focus on the upper half of the card" doesn't seem like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. Artists can achieve amazing things in the face of restriction.
I thought about that too, and before I get into it, it's important to note that this problem doesn't always apply outside of the Zelda theme. I wanted to keep things as consistent as possible, and I worry that, in using the frame to help denote card type, using different styles for the same card type can overwhelm players. Sure, I could hypothetically use Demise's sword instead of the master sword if I chose to make a Demise card,
but that would be changing a visual cue without changing what that visual cue mechanically implies, which is dangerous. Also, if I could, I would absolutely use more neutral colors for those design elements, but I'm pretty much limited to what I can find on google for these test frames.
Great question. I stated originally that rupees are more limited than traditional mana symbols, and this is one example. Like I've said above, feel free to suggest better ways to do mana, especially generic mana.
I'm thinking I'll just use the rupee symbols in the text boxes the same way they're used in the mana cost. I whipped up the tap symbol without worrying about style simply because I needed something, but given more time (and resources), I would absolutely make a more stylized one to line up with the visual style of the rest of the symbols on the card. It's just not something I was super worried about at the time.
Learnt behavior is actually one of the very things I'm trying to minimize with this project. Magic players had to learn where the power and toughness were, and what each of those numbers meant. They had to learn that 2Gmeans "three mana total, one being green" instead of "two green mana." They had to learn that creatures have summoning sickness and don't need to tap to block.
What I'm trying to do is create less learnt behavior and more intuitive behavior.
One of my frustrations with a lot of the feedback that I get, particularly from Magic players, is that it often amounts to "Why not just do it the way Magic does it?" In some situations, that's perfectly valid, but every change I make has a purpose. So many Magic players have suggested that the power and toughness be in the lower right corner, and I have yet to hear a compelling reason why that is functionally superior to any other possible placement. It's more just "I'm used to it being there" than it is "It works better there."
All that said, I can see the argument for them being too far apart and am open to suggestions as to where they can actually be more effective, rather than just putting them out of the way of everything else.
Yeah, as I said above, I would use more neutral colors if I could. I'll remember that as I'm moving towards a more finalized version.
I'm aware that this is the most glaring issue, but I'm still experimenting with a better place to put the card type. Any suggestions?
I would use a grey medallion with no symbol but rather a number. Basically like how mana costs look, but fancier.
Mostly it has to do with information conveyance. The standard Magic template can be broken down into a few parts:
Name Cost
Picture
Supertype Type - Subtype (Set Symbol + Rarity)
Rules Text
Flavor Text
(Misc. Info including collector number, set code, and rarity code) (Rare/Mythic Holo Tag) Power/Toughness
P/T slots neatly into the bottom right corner vertically opposite the mana cost and horizontally opposite the Misc. Info. If you look at the various bits of information as blocks, it switches between 1 and 2-block layers, with the bottom layer adding a third block for rares and mythics.
2
1
2
1
2-3
Well, if writing the card type out doesn't work I would try using a layered spherical indicator, with the main layer representing the card type (see the Future Sight type symbols) and optional layers indicating things like legendary or snow. Legendary gives a golden border, snow gives an icy border, etc. Then you only have to write the subtypes out.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
One important test for this is finding some artworks with different color palets and check how well the indivual pieces stand out with variant paletts and art styles - though by now the only doodads that don't have a clearly delined opaque background are the p/t icons, so this will probably not an issue (could have been before the mana cost "bubble").
Aesthetically the frame is top-heavy with doodads (rupees; p/t; the sword for the name; emblems for color indication) while the bottom is just dominated by a single fairly unadorned text box/type line block. This means the colors of the artwork will be dominant except for the top third were it will be dominated by frame objects. This is something I would like to see with different example illustrations to judge the actual visual weight. I think the fact that the blue blends well with the sky and the green/yellow goes well with the colors of Link and the foreground.
One isue I spot at first glance: I see no inherent benefit to moving legendary from the left site of the hyphen to the right. Understanding that a supertype is not a subtype is traditionally more important than understanding that a supertype is not a card type.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
First, I ditched the p/t symbols, as some people found them hard to see ontop of the art and didn't know what they were. I've added a bubble to the P/T to give the text some background.
Secondly, I have a version with Rupee symbols and one with Medallion symbols. I personally think the medallions look better, but personally don't like to use them as the mana cost, as Rupees are much more associated with paying for things. This version also has the same kind of text boxes/bubbles as the main text box.
The second version makes the mana cost and p/t bubbles as well as the type plate black. I tried that because with the transparent boxes/bubbles ontop of the art, it felt like there was a lot going on and it strained the eyes a bit. The high-contrast white on black helps keep the focus where it needs to be, but I'm not sure how well it meshes with the rest of the card.
I also changed the color of the sword to grey to be more neutral.
Finally, I've ditched the medallion color indicators. People found those in addition to the mana cost to be confusing.
Aside from that, just a bit of resizing and texturing changes as well as a watermark.
Edit: One last thing I'm experimenting with is bolded keywords. I made a thread a while ago about bolded keywords, mainly focusing on the Cairn Wanderer ability, but there are other reasons as well. I just wanted to see how it looks here.
Behind the eyes of truth, is a world of illustions.
Dragon Riderof a Mist Dragonn anyway with the Dragon Riders Clan.
I much prefer the rupee icons over the medallions, they have a cleaner appearance. However, I dislike the use of the number to indicate additional generic mana contrasted with the multiple colored symbols for individual colored mana. I would like to see each mana requirement be a rupee containing a numeral, thus indicating the amount of each color required, including a gray rupee for the generic requirement.
I like the look and placement of the power and toughness, but I dislike using the abbreviations to indicate which is which. This would be an appropriate place to bring back the sword and shield icons from portal. Using abbreviated text to distinguish them has the potential to not work in the case of translations.
I've seen your attempts to alter the type line. While I do want to see the type and subtypes on the type line, there is not reason to keep the supertype there with them. Supertypes are such an odd addition, they could warrant they own line or marker anywhere on the card. A thin golden ribbon above the name proudly declaring "Legendary" would make these characters feel all the more impactful, while maintaining game-relevant information.
Personally, I think Rupees would better serve you as artifact tokens much akin to Gold and Treasure, or possibly as counters like energy or even as a second life-like resource. Then you could have Rupee cost abilities on your cards (and "pay three Rupees" or "pay 3 Rupees" sounds better than "sacrifice three Rupees").
I can appreciate you experimenting with the mana cost and P/T locations, but part of the reason I would stick with the original layout is so the corners don't feel naked and like wasted space, and so the cost and p/t boxes don't cover up part of the art. I would guess the latter point is the real reason they have the cost and p/t laid out as they do now.
Writing the P/T out horizontally also keeps consistent with P/T modifier effects on cards; right now the player has to rotate the numbers' orientation 90° to make sense. And with the added PWR and TGH text, how did you plan on writing out P/T modifiers on cards? What would Giant Growth look like in this set?
While this isn't a layout nitpick per se, wouldn't Ganon make more sense as a Demon Beast? Or Boar Demon?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
There is inherent benefit to have them next to each other rather than on top of each other, but that's been mentioned already.
There is no multiplicator next to the "black" rupee, so it's clearly one purple and four red rupee.
Conclusion: There needs to be an outline around a numerical to make certain it is not applied to another symbol - MtG had this outline from the very beginning and I don't see why you dropped it.
How will multiple of the same colored mana work with this layout? Stacked? Overlapping? That would be a cool technology to try and improve costs heavy on colored mana/rupee.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO