I was thinking about a card that could represent Bolas' ultimate manipulation. My goal was going for something like Mindslaver (or Emrakul's ability) but enabling you to win the opponent's deck. I am posting here to get feedback on both the mechanic and to know if this could be done inside the rules.
Support the Winner 3URB
As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities.
You and target player player shuffles his or her hand and graveyard into his or her library. Exchange control of all his or her permanents, life total and all cards in his or her library with your permanents, life total and all cards in your library. You and that player draws 7 cards. Exile ~.
The split section clause is to prevent someone to kill itself in response to the spell. It is really needed, right?
Support the Winner3UBR
Sorcery
Split second
You and target opponent shuffle your hands and graveyards into your libraries. You and that opponent exchange control of all permanents, life totals, and libraries each controls. You and that opponent each draw seven cards. Exile Support the Winner.
I think the split second is unnecessary and excessive. If a player drops their life to 0 in response to the spell, they would lose the game before the spell resolves anyway. The split second prevents any interaction with it, which gives the caster an unreasonably large advantage. Just set yourself up to sacrifice all of your permanents, or set yourself up with some unavoidable downside permanents before casting it and your opponent is totally unable to do anything about it.
The main problem with this card is exchanging control of libraries. Players don't 'control' their libraries(or their graveyards or cards in hand), so you can't exchange control here. Even if this was possible it would immediately cause problems because any bounce would return the card to its owners hand not the person who 'control's' the library it came from. Also the cards you cast would go into your opponent's graveyard, because, once again they go to their owners graveyard. If you want this type of effect you would need a permanent version of minds slaver rather than all of these changes to try and mimic the effect, then add an effect where if either player wins or loses the other player does instead.
Support the Winner 3URB
Sorcery
Split Second
Gain control of target player, that player gains control of you. Until the end of the game if that player would win or lose the game, instead you win or lose the game; if you would win or lose the game that player wins or loses the game instead.
There accomplishes exactly what you want(except you're playing with most hidden information revealed) and works within the rules.
Oh, I totally glossed over the exchanging libraries part. You can't actually do that, its explicitly impossible. You would need to rewrite core elements of the game's rules to accomplish that, the consequences are unforeseeable.
The main problem with this card is exchanging control of libraries. Players don't 'control' their libraries(or their graveyards or cards in hand), so you can't exchange control here.
Thanks, @user_938036 - I thought that I couldn't change ownership of libraries/graveyard/cards in hand, that's why I chose to shuffle hand and graveyard in their libraries, and then changing the ownership of the CARDS in each library. Couldn't that work? Also, Mindslaver make you control that player, not their cards/permanents... :/
Don't forget that you can do anything you want to with custom cards. There may be no rules for exchanging libraries but you know full and well that we can understand what is intended when we sit down at the kitchen table If you and I agree to use some general sense for a few matches then this is totally possible. Keep that in mind and have fun with it
Don't forget that you can do anything you want to with custom cards. There may be no rules for exchanging libraries but you know full and well that we can understand what is intended when we sit down at the kitchen table If you and I agree to use some general sense for a few matches then this is totally possible. Keep that in mind and have fun with it
That's fine for uncards, but cards should at least attempt to make sense within the framework of magic. Especially when the card 'can' function using the current rules with a few tweaks.
You CAN write anything you want to in card text, but the farther you diverge from the rules of Magic, the less the community can help you with your ideas and the less value the design has.
This was the problem with Steamflogger Boss, it declared things in its text that were too far from what the existing rules have defined, so not only is it confusing and meaningless, it's hard to change either it or the rules into something fuctional.
Card ownership is really untouchable, the only mechanism to change ownership that has ever existed in real Magic is the ante, and it literally means a change of ownership, as in the cards are now owned by different people after the game is over.
The rules meaning of owner is the player in who's deck and sideboard the card began the game. Re-defining that via card text carries far-reaching ramafications.
Furthermore, let me tell you what I would do with this card. I would build a deck with no possibility of winning, and would use this card to swap decks with my opponent, and from there proceed to defeat them effortlessly. Unlike with Shared Fate, this card does it in a foolproof way, as it wipes away the opponent's hand, graveyard, and permanents in addition to stealing the cards in their library, so even if they manage to get set up before it goes off, they're totally helpless.
Yes, this is what I was going for. Didn't realized that it already existed in Silver Border.
Anyway, now rules question: Using my template, changing control (and not ownership) of the cards in library instead of the library itself, could it work in black border?
Support the Winner 3URB
As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities.
You and target player player shuffles his or her hand and graveyard into his or her library. Exchange control of all his or her permanents, life total and all cards in his or her library with your permanents, life total and all cards in your library. You and that player draws 7 cards. Exile ~.
The split section clause is to prevent someone to kill itself in response to the spell. It is really needed, right?
Sorcery
Split second
You and target opponent shuffle your hands and graveyards into your libraries. You and that opponent exchange control of all permanents, life totals, and libraries each controls. You and that opponent each draw seven cards. Exile Support the Winner.
I think the split second is unnecessary and excessive. If a player drops their life to 0 in response to the spell, they would lose the game before the spell resolves anyway. The split second prevents any interaction with it, which gives the caster an unreasonably large advantage. Just set yourself up to sacrifice all of your permanents, or set yourself up with some unavoidable downside permanents before casting it and your opponent is totally unable to do anything about it.
Support the Winner 3URB
Sorcery
Split Second
Gain control of target player, that player gains control of you. Until the end of the game if that player would win or lose the game, instead you win or lose the game; if you would win or lose the game that player wins or loses the game instead.
There accomplishes exactly what you want(except you're playing with most hidden information revealed) and works within the rules.
Thanks, @user_938036 - I thought that I couldn't change ownership of libraries/graveyard/cards in hand, that's why I chose to shuffle hand and graveyard in their libraries, and then changing the ownership of the CARDS in each library. Couldn't that work? Also, Mindslaver make you control that player, not their cards/permanents... :/
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This was the problem with Steamflogger Boss, it declared things in its text that were too far from what the existing rules have defined, so not only is it confusing and meaningless, it's hard to change either it or the rules into something fuctional.
Card ownership is really untouchable, the only mechanism to change ownership that has ever existed in real Magic is the ante, and it literally means a change of ownership, as in the cards are now owned by different people after the game is over.
The rules meaning of owner is the player in who's deck and sideboard the card began the game. Re-defining that via card text carries far-reaching ramafications.
Furthermore, let me tell you what I would do with this card. I would build a deck with no possibility of winning, and would use this card to swap decks with my opponent, and from there proceed to defeat them effortlessly. Unlike with Shared Fate, this card does it in a foolproof way, as it wipes away the opponent's hand, graveyard, and permanents in addition to stealing the cards in their library, so even if they manage to get set up before it goes off, they're totally helpless.
Yes, this is what I was going for. Didn't realized that it already existed in Silver Border.
Anyway, now rules question: Using my template, changing control (and not ownership) of the cards in library instead of the library itself, could it work in black border?