I'm revamping an old set of mine that haste a very hate focused feel. Creatures and spells alike focus on making players directly antagonize each and inspire vindictive natures. Color hate, pain, revenge, that what makes this set tick. And what better way to bring that feeling to the battlefield then to confront...
...you worst Nemesis.
(*names and flavor subject to change.)
Relentless Knight3W
Creature - Human Knight (U)
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
Vigilance
When Relentless Knight blocks or is blocked by its nemesis, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/4
Blightwood Elemental4GG
Creature - Elemental (U)
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
Reach
You may have Blightwood Elemental assign its combat damage as though it weren’t blocked by it’s nemesis.
4/6
The Shapeless4U
Creature - Ooze (R)
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
When The Shapeless’ nemesis attacks or blocks, untap The Shapeless.
The Shapeless can block its nemesis as if it had no abilities.
4/5
Insurmontable Terror2BB
Creature - Horror
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
Intimidate
Insurmotable Terrors power and toughness are each equal to 2 plus its nemesis’ power.
2+*/2+*
Okay, so...as you predicted, I both love and hate it. It's a cool variant of soulbond...but it has its issues. Mainly, memory issues. With soulbond, you're bonding it with something else you control, so you can just overlap the cards to remember what's bonded to what. In the case of Nemesis, though, one creature is yours and the other is an opponent's. It would be VERY awkward to keep the cards overlapped when controlled by two different players...so what methods do you propose to remember which creatures are nemeses of each other?
I'd figure that you and your opponent would just set those cards head to head on one side of the battlefield. An additional solution is to have token cards to mark them similar to the double face card markers crossed with the new manifest. However I'd start with the former as a testing point.
The former works in 2-player, but in multiplayer around a table, "head to head" is less defined. For example, in a 4-player game, there's someone to my left, to my right, and across from me. If I make a nemesis of the right-player's creature, making them "head to head" would mean I'd have to rotate my creature in a way that's very hard to distinguish from a tapped creature.
The overlay markers work well with Morph and Manifest, since all morphed and manifested cards are identical. That solution doesn't work for nemesis, since each creature is paired with exactly one other creature. For example, if I put nemesis overlays on two of my creatures and two creatures I don't control, how does that help me remember which of my creatures is paired with which of my opponents' creatures?
The former works in 2-player, but in multiplayer around a table, "head to head" is less defined. For example, in a 4-player game, there's someone to my left, to my right, and across from me. If I make a nemesis of the right-player's creature, making them "head to head" would mean I'd have to rotate my creature in a way that's very hard to distinguish from a tapped creature.
The overlay markers work well with Morph and Manifest, since all morphed and manifested cards are identical. That solution doesn't work for nemesis, since each creature is paired with exactly one other creature. For example, if I put nemesis overlays on two of my creatures and two creatures I don't control, how does that help me remember which of my creatures is paired with which of my opponents' creatures?
That's why I said a cross of the new manifest markers with the old doubled faced ones. I didn't explain it very well. Either they could have list of nemesis cards from the set that you could check off and use to mark them, or something similar. They are also alternative, non full card sized markers that could come with them. Some kind of token marker would be possible, regardless.
It's certainly a concern worth considering, and one I was aware of before posting here. However, that alone I don't feel is enough to throw out an otherwise very flavor mechanic with seemingly interesting design space.
Flavour wise, as your creature get's a bonus against their creature, would it be better for the wording to instead be: "...this creature is the paired creature's nemesis."?
I think a "nemesis" counter on a creature would work slightly better than a placeholder card as you suggest. This would limit your use of other counter types in the set though. Overall, I agree the memory issues are too difficult for this kind of mechanic.
Relentless Knight 3W
Creature - Human Knight (U)
Vigilance
Nemesis (When Relentless Knight enters the battlefield, put a nemesis counter on target creature an opponent controls.)
Whenever Relentless Knight blocks or becomes blocked by a creature with a nemesis counter on it, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/4
This way loses a LITTLE bit of the flavor, but maintains enough if you don't bog the set down with nemesis counters.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MEMNARCH FOR PRESIDENT!!!
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
Alternatively you could have any nemesis related effects trigger on ETB or the next turn after, effectively limited the memory issue to one turn (like Rebound).
Nemesis KnightBB
Creature - Human Knight (C)
First strike Nemesis - When this creature enters the battlefield, pair it with a creature you don't control. At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield, if its nemesis is dead put a +1/+1 counter on CARD.
2/1
So my form would follow as such:
Nemesis - When [this creature] enters the battlefield pair it with a creature you don't control. At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield, if its nemesis is dead [effect]
This version combines the keyword with the active ability (taking up less space in the text box), while retaining the pairing and reducing mempry issues. I really like mechanics that require you to think a turn ahead to get full value, they are great teaching tools and allow for a huge level of interaction in the middle of the "resolution" of the card's value. Plus who doesn't want to kill their nemesis?
Flavour wise, as your creature get's a bonus against their creature, would it be better for the wording to instead be: "...this creature is the paired creature's nemesis."?
Perhaps. But wether you're the hero or the villain, attagonist or pro, both are each others nemesis.
I think a "nemesis" counter on a creature would work slightly better than a placeholder card as you suggest. This would limit your use of other counter types in the set though. Overall, I agree the memory issues are too difficult for this kind of mechanic.
Relentless Knight 3W
Creature - Human Knight (U)
Vigilance
Nemesis (When Relentless Knight enters the battlefield, put a nemesis counter on target creature an opponent controls.)
Whenever Relentless Knight blocks or becomes blocked by a creature with a nemesis counter on it, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/4
This way loses a LITTLE bit of the flavor, but maintains enough if you don't bog the set down with nemesis counters.
While this does help with the memory issue, it does only slightly while introducing a number of downsides.
As you yourself noted, it does lose some flavorful impact.
What if I have more then one Nemesis creature? A counter marking it loses usefulness for each marker beyond the first.
This only triggers once and requires outside manipulation to affect additional creatures, making it substantially weaker.
Having it only affect one creature over the course of its existence limits the design space more then it currently has. For example, my version of Insurmountable Terror would be a poor design with your rendition.
The one time restriction weakens the mechanic so much I feel, that creatures become more of a one time nuisance and not a nemesis. In that regard, they fail the sets design goal of inspiring hate and vindictiveness towards the other player.
I feel the potential memory issue is outweighed by what I outlined here.
Alternatively you could have any nemesis related effects trigger on ETB or the next turn after, effectively limited the memory issue to one turn (like Rebound).
Nemesis KnightBB
Creature - Human Knight (C)
First strike Nemesis - When this creature enters the battlefield, pair it with a creature you don't control. At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield, if its nemesis is dead put a +1/+1 counter on CARD.
2/1
So my form would follow as such:
Nemesis - When [this creature] enters the battlefield pair it with a creature you don't control. At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield, if its nemesis is dead [effect]
This version combines the keyword with the active ability (taking up less space in the text box), while retaining the pairing and reducing mempry issues. I really like mechanics that require you to think a turn ahead to get full value, they are great teaching tools and allow for a huge level of interaction in the middle of the "resolution" of the card's value. Plus who doesn't want to kill their nemesis?
Oh don't worry, there are nemesis with kill related effects and bonuses. Your version has flavorful applications, though not quite the same as it revels in the death of its nemesis as opposed to being a nemesis on the battlefield. You version is really a narrow version of morbid. The clause "At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield" kills a lot of elegance here, however. It would probably also included the wording "If its nemesis died" instead. It loses some flavor, but not as much as the counter marker suggestion. I'm not sure that it holds to my design goal/core statement.
...you worst Nemesis.
(*names and flavor subject to change.)
Relentless Knight 3W
Creature - Human Knight (U)
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
Vigilance
When Relentless Knight blocks or is blocked by its nemesis, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/4
Blightwood Elemental 4GG
Creature - Elemental (U)
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
Reach
You may have Blightwood Elemental assign its combat damage as though it weren’t blocked by it’s nemesis.
4/6
The Shapeless 4U
Creature - Ooze (R)
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
When The Shapeless’ nemesis attacks or blocks, untap The Shapeless.
The Shapeless can block its nemesis as if it had no abilities.
4/5
Insurmontable Terror 2BB
Creature - Horror
Nemesis (You may pair this creature with a creature you don’t control when either enters the battlefield. The paired creature is this creature’s nemesis.)
Intimidate
Insurmotable Terrors power and toughness are each equal to 2 plus its nemesis’ power.
2+*/2+*
Thoughts?
The overlay markers work well with Morph and Manifest, since all morphed and manifested cards are identical. That solution doesn't work for nemesis, since each creature is paired with exactly one other creature. For example, if I put nemesis overlays on two of my creatures and two creatures I don't control, how does that help me remember which of my creatures is paired with which of my opponents' creatures?
That's why I said a cross of the new manifest markers with the old doubled faced ones. I didn't explain it very well. Either they could have list of nemesis cards from the set that you could check off and use to mark them, or something similar. They are also alternative, non full card sized markers that could come with them. Some kind of token marker would be possible, regardless.
It's certainly a concern worth considering, and one I was aware of before posting here. However, that alone I don't feel is enough to throw out an otherwise very flavor mechanic with seemingly interesting design space.
This mechanic reminds me of Kulrath Knight
Relentless Knight 3W
Creature - Human Knight (U)
Vigilance
Nemesis (When Relentless Knight enters the battlefield, put a nemesis counter on target creature an opponent controls.)
Whenever Relentless Knight blocks or becomes blocked by a creature with a nemesis counter on it, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/4
This way loses a LITTLE bit of the flavor, but maintains enough if you don't bog the set down with nemesis counters.
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
Nemesis Knight BB
Creature - Human Knight (C)
First strike
Nemesis - When this creature enters the battlefield, pair it with a creature you don't control. At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield, if its nemesis is dead put a +1/+1 counter on CARD.
2/1
So my form would follow as such:
Nemesis - When [this creature] enters the battlefield pair it with a creature you don't control. At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield, if its nemesis is dead [effect]
This version combines the keyword with the active ability (taking up less space in the text box), while retaining the pairing and reducing mempry issues. I really like mechanics that require you to think a turn ahead to get full value, they are great teaching tools and allow for a huge level of interaction in the middle of the "resolution" of the card's value. Plus who doesn't want to kill their nemesis?
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
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Perhaps. But wether you're the hero or the villain, attagonist or pro, both are each others nemesis.
While this does help with the memory issue, it does only slightly while introducing a number of downsides.
I feel the potential memory issue is outweighed by what I outlined here.
Oh don't worry, there are nemesis with kill related effects and bonuses. Your version has flavorful applications, though not quite the same as it revels in the death of its nemesis as opposed to being a nemesis on the battlefield. You version is really a narrow version of morbid. The clause "At the beginning of the end step the turn after this creature entered the battlefield" kills a lot of elegance here, however. It would probably also included the wording "If its nemesis died" instead. It loses some flavor, but not as much as the counter marker suggestion. I'm not sure that it holds to my design goal/core statement.