Nope. Unless they have completely useless abilities like
+1: look at the top card of target player's library.
And reaally expensive ultimates like
-12: ????
Or all the abilities affect all players
+2: each player mills top two cards.
-1: each player draws a card.
-10: each player discards hand and draws 7 cards.
The main problem with PW design in general is that you need to walk a very thin line between being too good like JTMS or being useless like Chandra Ablaze. At higher mana costs this is easy to do since while cards like Karn and Nicol Bolas cost crazy amounts to play they can do crazy things without being broken because of their mana cost but the more you lower the mana cost the harder it becomes to balance a cards power to its mana cost. Because of how hard a PW would be to balance at 2 mana or less I feel we will never see one because it would likely either be completely useless or too powerful with little room to walk in between the two options.
Also Planeswalkers don't feel like the should cost the same as Grizzly Bears ever
Sure... why not? Planesawlkers aren't inheirintly better than other card types, it's just that Development tries to push them. A one mana planeswalker could exist, be fair, and be playable. It just depends on how it's developed.
This forum isn't for Custom cards, if you want to speculate on what such a card woudl be, it's best to post in that forum.
This is very easy to balance actually, just make their loyalty build slow and require buildup before even the middle ability can be spent. E.g. loyalty 1 with a +1, -3, and ultimate. I don't think we will see it often with Wizards wanting to push PWs as "epic", but it's likely to happen eventually for a specific planeswalker.
This is very easy to balance actually, just make their loyalty build slow and require buildup before even the middle ability can be spent. E.g. loyalty 1 with a +1, -3, and ultimate. I don't think we will see it often with Wizards wanting to push PWs as "epic", but it's likely to happen eventually for a specific planeswalker.
They really have to be careful about what they do with starting loyalty though. Too low and you'll never get to do anything with the walker since they're so fragile. This is especially worrisome since if you drop it turn1 or 2, it would need to produce a token to protect itself or the opponent might just wipe it off the field with a very tiny creature.
Anyways, One of the major issues with costing planeswalkers is the fact that you have an arsenal of repeatable effects. While two of those abilities would have loyalty costs, it doesn't change the fact you can do it more than once after having only spent a very very small amount of mana.
Or you could have their loyalty low, say two or three and only have 0 and - abilities
Say: GG
-1 untap target land
-2 target creature gains haste and trample till end of turn
0 discard a land card from your hand. Add G to your mana pool.
Loyalty 2
I think they would have to be a one-two turn use only, And no way it could be one color/one colorless or simply one mana. But definitely two of the same or two allied or enemy colors.
I think it can be done with the proper changes to the typical PW design thus far.
No + abilities and less than three abilities come to mind. A PW with a -0 and -2 with 2 loyalty isn't functionally very different from some artifacts and enchantments that already exist.
For example, ignoring the ugliness of using two types of counters:
0: Put a charge counter on ~X
-2: Destory each nonland permanent with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on X
2
Is a Ratchet Bomb that's sorcery speed and can be attacked. It actually seems weak like this at 2 mana.
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Standard: UR Guttersnipe & Talrand
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
Flavorwise, a cheap planeswalker call (as in low cc) should signify something in particular- A walker might be in a rush, a bad mood, maybe really quick to provide help- so cheap mana costs might result in higher base loyalties, with ultimates replaced with more regular effects. Like, say, you have UU Jace. You might get +1 "shuffle target deck" 0 "look at the top card of target deck" and -5 "return target nonland to the top of it's owner's deck", with base loyalty around 3 or maybe 4, just so you can expect him to stick around. or maybe a Garruk/Nissa with 6-8 base loyalty and only really mild minus abilities, like -2 "add G to mana pool."
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My only point is a low-cost PW with no + and minor effects is exactly why we won't see many low-cost PWs. All of them are mythic rares, all of them have to be percieved as having at least major potential. So something that built loyalty up slowly vs. it's costs as I proposed, or something that limited how early you could play it, or required an alternate cost, could happen. Garruk has opened the door to non-loyalty text showing up on PW cards now.
Now that this thread is in the CCC forum, here's my take on a 1-mana PW...
Simeom Abasaul W
Planewalker - Simeom [Mythic]
[+1] Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
[-1] Put a 1/1 Soldier creature token onto the battlefield.
[-4] Put X 1/1 Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the number of creature you control.
[1]
Basically he's a 1-mana PW that should be played turn two, not turn one. He also topdecks into a soldier should the need arise.
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I don't see why this couldn't work. Could you tell me how broken this card is?
I think it's pretty balanced. At a Mythic level rarity, turn 1, it is a hasty Llanowar Elf that cannot attack. It can gain you card advantage, but only if there is an Elf in your graveyard. Then if you can get the Loyalty to 10, she goes postal and resets the board... with likely a ton of Elves in your grip to rebuild.
Well, here's my take, and I decided to make a White PW, since White has plenty of really cheap, fast spells already; it fits in colour-wise.
Also, pulling out my inner Vorthos, I picked an original PW. I reckon a cheap PW would have to be fairly weak; as such, why not a newly-ascended PW, one who's still learning how to use their abilities. Maybe he's confused when he's pulled through the Blind Eternities to your side, mere moments after Ascending.
Cor Lucre, New Ascendant W
Planeswalker - Cor
+1; Choose a player at random. That player gains life equal to the converted mana cost of the creature with the lowest converted mana cost on the battlefield.
-6; You get an emblem with "Whenever a nonland permanent you control becomes tapped, gain 1 life".
{1}
There. 1-mana PW. Only has 2 abilities, more on a newly-ascended Walker seems to make little flavor sense to me... And maybe he just like healin' people.
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Level 1 Judge
[box][box][size=3][b]CARDNAME[/b][/size] [float=right][mana]MANACOST[/mana][/float][/box]
[box][b]TYPE — SUBTYPE [float=right][color="RARITYCOLOUR"]{RARITY}[/color][/b][/float][/box][box]RULES TEXT
[i]FLAVOUR TEXT[/i][/box][float=right][box=50][b][SIZE="3"]P/T[/SIZE][/b][/box][/float][/box]
Only if they don't have a removal or a creature by turn ~5. He give essentially the same buff Tempered Steel gives... Here's how it looks (for sanity's sake we won't have a God hand, we'll have a normal Mtgo hand and we'll also have normal game of Mtgo, we draw nothing but lands :p)
[Turn 1]
Plains
Simeom Abasaul [1]
Memnite [1/1]
[+1] Simeom [2] Memnite [2/2]
[Turn 2]
Plains
Elite Vanguard
[+1] Simeom [3] (Now we have a choice, do we put all our eggs in one basket or spread things out. I think for this turn we can still put a counter on Memnite but after this we should spread them out.) Memnite [3/3]
Attack w/ Memnite. Opp [17]
[Turn 3]
Plains
[+1] Simeom, Elite vanguard [3/2]
Attack Memnite [3/3], Elite [3/2] Opp [11]
[Turn 4]
Plains
[+1] Simeom, Elite [4/3]
ATtack Memnite [3/3], Elite [4/3] Opp [4]
[Turn 5]
Plains
[+1] Simeom, Memnite [4/4]
Attack Memnite [4/4], Elite [4/3] Opp [-4]
[END]
A burn, bounce, removal, or creature spell from your Opponent would significantly slow you down. Maybe his ultimate should be slower but hey this is design not development.
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Some Dude1W
Planeswalker - Some
Whenever you gain life, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
-2 Put a 1/1 white Soldier creature token onto the battlefield.
-7 Each player doubles their life total.
3
Blue Guy1U
Planeswalker - Blue
Whenever you draw cards, put a loyalty counter on Blue Guy.
-3 Draw a card
-9 Target player draws four cards.
3
DW that guy's meant to grow during draw steps. Note that if you use his ability immediately, he does die because SBEs.
More Obscure Blue Guy1U
Planeswalker - More
Whenever a player shuffles his or her library, put a loyalty counter on More Obscure Blue Guy.
-2 Look at the top four cards of your library.
-8 Search your library for two instant or sorcery cards, reveal them and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
3
Burn Guy1R
Planeswalker - Guy
Whenever an opponent is dealt noncombat damage, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
-3 When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, if it's red, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6 Draw cards equal to the amount of damage target player was dealt this turn.
2
Tree HuggerGG
Planeswalker - Tree Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, put a loyalty counter on Tree Hugger.
-1 Gain life equal to the number of lands that entered the battlefield this turn.
-8 Search your library for up to ten basic lands and put them onto the battlefield.
3
Like a Shrine2
Planeswalker - Like
At the beginning of your upkeep or whenever you cast an artifact spell, put a loyalty counter on Like a Shrine.
-3 Search your library for an artifact card, reveal it and put it into your hand.
-10 You may put up to two artifact cards from your hand onto the battlefield.
1
Burn Guy1R
Planeswalker - Guy
Whenever an opponent is dealt noncombat damage, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
-2 When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, if it's red, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6 Draw cards equal to the amount of damage target player was dealt this turn.
1
There's a problem with the [-2] ability. If Burn Guy has 3+ Loyalty counters on it and you cast a burn spell you can copy it for free. Was that the intention?
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No, the copy is not cast so it only gets 1 counter.
Casting isn't the problem though...
Whenever an opponent is dealt noncombat damage, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
This is the problem, if your casting a burn spell the first one will replace one counter and the copy will replace the other, basiclly turning it into a [0] ability.
Edit: By the way, why did you change the [-2] ability into a [-3] ability?
Raysh Tinar BB
Planeswalker - Raysh [Mythic]
[-1] Target player draws two cards and loses 2 life.
[-1] Return target creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
[-1]Each player loses 1 life, discards a card, sacrifices a creature, then sacrifices a land.
[1]
He's basically a glorified "Charm". Every one of his abilities cost the same or less then he does. The flavor is of a black Mage who hates to be indebted to anyone and is trying to leave ASAP.
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ideas?
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+1: look at the top card of target player's library.
And reaally expensive ultimates like
-12: ????
Or all the abilities affect all players
+2: each player mills top two cards.
-1: each player draws a card.
-10: each player discards hand and draws 7 cards.
Hmm. So maybe it could happen. But not likely...
Also Planeswalkers don't feel like the should cost the same as Grizzly Bears ever
Sure... why not? Planesawlkers aren't inheirintly better than other card types, it's just that Development tries to push them. A one mana planeswalker could exist, be fair, and be playable. It just depends on how it's developed.
This forum isn't for Custom cards, if you want to speculate on what such a card woudl be, it's best to post in that forum.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
They really have to be careful about what they do with starting loyalty though. Too low and you'll never get to do anything with the walker since they're so fragile. This is especially worrisome since if you drop it turn1 or 2, it would need to produce a token to protect itself or the opponent might just wipe it off the field with a very tiny creature.
Anyways, One of the major issues with costing planeswalkers is the fact that you have an arsenal of repeatable effects. While two of those abilities would have loyalty costs, it doesn't change the fact you can do it more than once after having only spent a very very small amount of mana.
Say: GG
-1 untap target land
-2 target creature gains haste and trample till end of turn
0 discard a land card from your hand. Add G to your mana pool.
Loyalty 2
I think they would have to be a one-two turn use only, And no way it could be one color/one colorless or simply one mana. But definitely two of the same or two allied or enemy colors.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
No + abilities and less than three abilities come to mind. A PW with a -0 and -2 with 2 loyalty isn't functionally very different from some artifacts and enchantments that already exist.
For example, ignoring the ugliness of using two types of counters:
0: Put a charge counter on ~X
-2: Destory each nonland permanent with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on X
2
Is a Ratchet Bomb that's sorcery speed and can be attacked. It actually seems weak like this at 2 mana.
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
U
+2: Target player draws a card.
starting loyalty 2
or even
U
+2: Each player draws a card.
-8: Target player draws 7 cards and You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size."
Starting loyalty 1
My only point is a low-cost PW with no + and minor effects is exactly why we won't see many low-cost PWs. All of them are mythic rares, all of them have to be percieved as having at least major potential. So something that built loyalty up slowly vs. it's costs as I proposed, or something that limited how early you could play it, or required an alternate cost, could happen. Garruk has opened the door to non-loyalty text showing up on PW cards now.
Basically he's a 1-mana PW that should be played turn two, not turn one. He also topdecks into a soldier should the need arise.
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I think it's pretty balanced. At a Mythic level rarity, turn 1, it is a hasty Llanowar Elf that cannot attack. It can gain you card advantage, but only if there is an Elf in your graveyard. Then if you can get the Loyalty to 10, she goes postal and resets the board... with likely a ton of Elves in your grip to rebuild.
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that card seems busted with memnite
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Also, pulling out my inner Vorthos, I picked an original PW. I reckon a cheap PW would have to be fairly weak; as such, why not a newly-ascended PW, one who's still learning how to use their abilities. Maybe he's confused when he's pulled through the Blind Eternities to your side, mere moments after Ascending.
There. 1-mana PW. Only has 2 abilities, more on a newly-ascended Walker seems to make little flavor sense to me... And maybe he just like healin' people.
Level 1 Judge
Only if they don't have a removal or a creature by turn ~5. He give essentially the same buff Tempered Steel gives... Here's how it looks (for sanity's sake we won't have a God hand, we'll have a normal Mtgo hand and we'll also have normal game of Mtgo, we draw nothing but lands :p)
Opening Hand:
1x Simeom Abasual
1x Memnite
1x Eilte Vanguard
4x Plains
[Turn 1]
Plains
Simeom Abasaul [1]
Memnite [1/1]
[+1] Simeom [2] Memnite [2/2]
[Turn 2]
Plains
Elite Vanguard
[+1] Simeom [3] (Now we have a choice, do we put all our eggs in one basket or spread things out. I think for this turn we can still put a counter on Memnite but after this we should spread them out.) Memnite [3/3]
Attack w/ Memnite. Opp [17]
[Turn 3]
Plains
[+1] Simeom, Elite vanguard [3/2]
Attack Memnite [3/3], Elite [3/2] Opp [11]
[Turn 4]
Plains
[+1] Simeom, Elite [4/3]
ATtack Memnite [3/3], Elite [4/3] Opp [4]
[Turn 5]
Plains
[+1] Simeom, Memnite [4/4]
Attack Memnite [4/4], Elite [4/3] Opp [-4]
[END]
A burn, bounce, removal, or creature spell from your Opponent would significantly slow you down. Maybe his ultimate should be slower but hey this is design not development.
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Some Dude 1W
Planeswalker - Some
Whenever you gain life, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
-2 Put a 1/1 white Soldier creature token onto the battlefield.
-7 Each player doubles their life total.
3
Blue Guy 1U
Planeswalker - Blue
Whenever you draw cards, put a loyalty counter on Blue Guy.
-3 Draw a card
-9 Target player draws four cards.
3
DW that guy's meant to grow during draw steps. Note that if you use his ability immediately, he does die because SBEs.
More Obscure Blue Guy 1U
Planeswalker - More
Whenever a player shuffles his or her library, put a loyalty counter on More Obscure Blue Guy.
-2 Look at the top four cards of your library.
-8 Search your library for two instant or sorcery cards, reveal them and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
3
Burn Guy 1R
Planeswalker - Guy
Whenever an opponent is dealt noncombat damage, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
-3 When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, if it's red, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6 Draw cards equal to the amount of damage target player was dealt this turn.
2
Tree Hugger GG
Planeswalker - Tree
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, put a loyalty counter on Tree Hugger.
-1 Gain life equal to the number of lands that entered the battlefield this turn.
-8 Search your library for up to ten basic lands and put them onto the battlefield.
3
Like a Shrine 2
Planeswalker - Like
At the beginning of your upkeep or whenever you cast an artifact spell, put a loyalty counter on Like a Shrine.
-3 Search your library for an artifact card, reveal it and put it into your hand.
-10 You may put up to two artifact cards from your hand onto the battlefield.
1
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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There's a problem with the [-2] ability. If Burn Guy has 3+ Loyalty counters on it and you cast a burn spell you can copy it for free. Was that the intention?
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Casting isn't the problem though...
Whenever an opponent is dealt noncombat damage, put a loyalty counter on Some Dude.
This is the problem, if your casting a burn spell the first one will replace one counter and the copy will replace the other, basiclly turning it into a [0] ability.
Edit: By the way, why did you change the [-2] ability into a [-3] ability?
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You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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He's basically a glorified "Charm". Every one of his abilities cost the same or less then he does. The flavor is of a black Mage who hates to be indebted to anyone and is trying to leave ASAP.
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Planeswalker - Bob (M)
+1: You lose 1 life.
-2: Draw a card.
1
Planeswalker - Tristan [Mythic]
[+1] Draw a card then discard a card.
[-1] Scry 2.
[-8] Target player draws three cards.
[1]
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