I realize this. My initial thought was the Ranvican karoos. However the card still doesn't solve the problem the way I wanted so there's no fear of it mattering.
(Although you could potentially add a clause limiting the amount of mana it produces to one.)
Dead Zone (Uncommon)
Land
When Dead Zone enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life.
Dead Zone is a plains and a swamp.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
My favorite idea, in the vein of the M10/11/12 and Scars duals:
Cloudreach Citadel
Land Wisdom -- Cloudreach Citadel enters the battlefield tapped unless you have five or more cards in your hand. T: Add W or U to your mana pool.
~Cardname enters the battlefield tapped unless you control a blue or white permanent
T: Add W or U
or
~cardname enters the battlefield tapped unless your opponent controls a plains or island (or maybe unless your opponent controls one of the other 3 lands?)
T: Add W or U
Something along the lines of this I think would be fine and workable
Barren Isles
Land - Swamp Island
~ comes into play tapped.
There, you have a land with two basic land types that you can put at uncommon. Sure, they are worse than shocklands, but at uncommon you allow your average joe to afford them, and they would be great for buget commander decks.
Alternatively, this was another idea that I had:
Traquil Grasslands
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Forestcylcing W, plainscycling G
Blooming Hills
Land - Forest Plains
You can't cast Blooming Hills during your first or second turns of the game.
Reverse-Avenger Tundra Land - Plains Island
a) CARDNAME enters the field tapped unless it is your first, second, or third turn of the game.
b) CARDNAME enters the field tapped if it is after your first three turns of the game.
~cardname enters the battlefield tapped unless your opponent controls a plains or island (or maybe unless your opponent controls one of the other 3 lands?)
T: Add W or U
Something along the lines of this I think would be fine and workable
Enemy-hate Tundra Land - Plains Island
a) CARDNAME enters the field tapped unless an opponent controls a Swamp, Mountain, or Forest.
b) CARDNAME enters the field tapped if an opponent controls a Plains or Island.
Maybe too good, but it is an interesting drawback in a mirror match.
Traquil Grasslands
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Forestcylcing W, plainscycling G
Landcycling is best when it is on large mid to late game spells. It gives you something something useful you can do with the card before you would otherwise be able to cast it. Change this into a gold spell and it will be more interesting.
Traquil Grasslands
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Forestcylcing W, plainscycling G
This is actually pretty sweet. I could see this double cycled.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Decaying Marsh
Land - C
Decaying Marsh enters the battlefield with 3 storage counters.
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T, remove 1 storage counter from Decaying Marsh: Add U or B to your mana pool.
Sorta like a Vivid Land, but having the opposite flavor. I think it sorta works for a "crap sack world", like I imagine Innistrad to be.
Battleground (Common)
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool if a creature attacked this turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
If Cloud Temple would enter the battlefield, sacrifice an untapped land instead. If you do, put Cloud Temple onto the battlefield. If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
The issue I see with many of my designs (and most other's designs by the looks of things) is that the land tends to be too powerful or too weak. No one wants to sacrifce lands, keep track of thousands of counters on every common land, attack first, etc. Simple is always better.
Here's my latest ideas:
Sundrenched Valley
Land - Mountain Plains (T: Add R or W to your mana pool.)
When Sundrenched Valley enters the battlefield, return another land you control to its owner's hand.
I got this idea from the Lair Cycle, but edited it a bit. It's great because it allows you to play a dual land first turn with no drawbacks. Later on, it's weaker, but still playable maybe.
Next:
Somber Countrside
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Add W or B to your mana pool. Activate this ablity only during your turn.
The issue I see with many of my designs (and most other's designs by the looks of things) is that the land tends to be too powerful or too weak. No one wants to sacrifce lands, keep track of thousands of counters on every common land, attack first, etc. Simple is always better.
Here's my latest ideas:
Sundrenched Valley
Land - Mountain Plains (T: Add R or W to your mana pool.)
When Sundrenched Valley enters the battlefield, return another land you control to its owner's hand.
I got this idea from the Lair Cycle, but edited it a bit. It's great because it allows you to play a dual land first turn with no drawbacks. Later on, it's weaker, but still playable maybe.
It has a definite drawback on the first turn. If you have no other lands to return, you have to return Sundrenched Valley itself.
read the card. "return another land". To be fair, that might mean that although the card works mechanically, it might not be a good design if a lot of people misread that.
Cloud Temple
Land (R)
If Cloud Temple would enter the battlefield, sacrifice an untapped land instead. If you do, put Cloud Temple onto the battlefield. If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
It's not a real Dual Land but it's a mana fixing land.
Exiled Land
Land
When ~ comes into play you may search your library for a land card and exile it, then shuffle your library.
Tap ~: add one mana of any type that land could produce to your mana pool.
Better than fetch:
Don't pay life, don't need to be tapped (Root Maze effects?), Neddle effects proff, can fetch nonbasic lands like city of brass, gemstone mine, painlands, etc.
Worst than fetch:
Doesn't go to graveyard (Crucible, Reliquary, theshold in general would be worst), can't be activated later (shuffle reasons), isn't Wasteland proof and will never put Basic Landtypes into play (Kird Ape and stuff are worst with it).
The issue I see with many of my designs (and most other's designs by the looks of things) is that the land tends to be too powerful or too weak. No one wants to sacrifce lands, keep track of thousands of counters on every common land, attack first, etc. Simple is always better.
Instead of sacrificing lands, how about riffing off of the Enigma Sphinx mechanic like so:
Enigma Lands Cycle:
Cloud Temple
Land (R)
When Cloud Temple enters the battlefield, put an untapped land you control into its owner’s library second from the top.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
or
Cloud Temple
Land (R)
Cloud Temple doesn't untap during your untap step.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
:1mana:: Untap Cloud Temple. Activate this ability only once per turn.
ect
Also uncommon color fixer land:
Shifting Expanse
Land (U)
Add one mana of a random color to your mana pool.
read the card. "return another land". To be fair, that might mean that although the card works mechanically, it might not be a good design if a lot of people misread that.
That's a good point. Good design also takes into account how people naturally read cards. In that case, you can do what the Lair lands did and just give them all a type. The card would return a non-type.
Here's another card I was thinking of recently (tying to come up for a INN multicolored land)
Lotus Cemetery
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Add one mana of a color of a card in your graveyard to your mana pool.
I'm not sure on the wording, but you get the gist. Also, one more idea I had (yes, I spend far too much effort thinking about this):
Heart of Zendikar
Land
Landfall - If you had a land enter the battelfield under your control this turn, Heart of Zendikar gains, "T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool," until end of turn.
Now, how's about that for first turn no drawbacks for any color of mana? It may be too powerful, but it deserves some testing. Finally, when thinking of Fetchable lands, something dawned on me yesterday: my favorite land to fetch in EDH is Murmoring Bosk. Therefore, why not try to riff on that idea?
Ichor Tarn
Land - Swamp (T: Add B to your mana pool.)
Marsh Ruins enters the battlefield tapped unless you control another swamp. T, Pay 1 life: Add U or R to your mana pool.
Heart of Zendikar
Land
Landfall - If you had a land enter the battelfield under your control this turn, Heart of Zendikar gains, "T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool," until end of turn.
Now, how's about that for first turn no drawbacks for any color of mana? It may be too powerful, but it deserves some testing.
I tend to think that's too powerful, but heading in that direction, splitting it into a cycle and making it un-Zendikar-y, we end up with...
Squalling Plains
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Add W or U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn.
So lets look at how this plays exactly...
First turn it allows access to both colors.
Early game it color fixes while you are color fixing (playing land).
Mid-Late game it's drawback could either be brutal (you lose a colored mana if you stop playing mana) or negligible (if you already have the mana you need).
It doesn't have a keyword/pseudo ability, making it accessible to core sets.
It plays intuitively ("Oh, I played a land this turn."), presenting little to no memory issues.
It is cyclable (meaning, each of the two-color combos could be created in this vein).
Basically the only thing this doesn't do is get searched up by fetches, and I think that's a pretty easy price to pay for the power something like this would have.
What I would be worried about is since this would come in a cycle, people playing 5 color decks, with the only drawback being you basically have to play a land every turn... Not sure what I think about that.
Utopian Aqueducts(Common)
Land T: Add W or U to your mana pool.
...allied colors cycled out...
Sacred Necropolis(Common)
Land T: Add W or B to your mana pool.
...enemy colors cycled out...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Squalling Plains
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Add W or U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn.
I think, as you said, having a cycle would really push 4-5 color decks. This is why I summed it all into one. I agree the land I made would probably be to powerful, but here's the biggest knock against mine I think you missed. Without fetchlands, you can't activate them on your opponents turn. So consider that too.
Utopian Aqueducts(Common)
Land T: Add W or U to your mana pool.
Um...what? No, just no. I understand that you want powerful lands that everyone can get, but the fact is there is no creativity in this idea. I like it when players have to think to build their mana bases. How mana lands etb tapped? How many hurt you? etc.
Shimmering Grotto is a perfect example of a great common multicolored land. The invasion dual land cycle could probably be at common as well.
I think, as you said, having a cycle would really push 4-5 color decks. This is why I summed it all into one. I agree the land I made would probably be to powerful, but here's the biggest knock against mine I think you missed. Without fetchlands, you can't activate them on your opponents turn. So consider that too.
True...
What about...
Artesian Well
Land - Plains Island (T: Add W or U to your mana pool.)
As ~ enters the battlefield, you may have it enter the battlefield tapped. If you don't, tap it at the beginning of your next end step. It doesn't untap during your next untap step.
Fetchable, and allows either turn one or turn two color fixing.
On the other hand, we could always change your bounce land to say "As CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may have it enter the battlefield tapped. If you don’t, return another land you control to its owner’s hand." That way it's still playable past turn one as a Coastal Tower or whatever.
Neo-duals could be just like the old duals but they are just non-basic lands instead of being both basics. tbh, that would be fair because fetches cant find them
Wow, I never thought of this. These would be awesome for Modern.
It's close, but I'm pretty sure these would not violate the Reprint Policy: "A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness."
The next question is would these be better or worse than shocklands for Modern? Probably worse...? I don't know.. they would be awesome though.
Here's my blue control deck's mana base. Its really more like 5 color control, but its cool cuz I never have mana problems.
4x WU Untapped dual
4x UB Untapped dual
4x UR Untapped dual
4x UG Untapped dual
4x WB Untapped dual
4x WR Untapped dual
Why wouldn't I just run 16x of my main color's duals? I get ALL untapped lands with insane fixing. This sort of thing is fine for a cube design or something like that, where you want people to have fun and cast their spells. In a real constructed format (Yes they actually exist in Legacy and Vintage, guess why those formats are so fast), these are straight up broken. Wizards will never put the original Dual-Lands in Standard again, guaranteed. Its fairly likely they'll do something like the Shock-Lands, but the ability to color-fix and stay untapped without any condition whatsoever is too strong. It makes them better than basics all of the time. The types argument is a weak argument. Yes being nonbasic matters, and not having the subtypes matters, but tell me honestly you would like seeing a 5 color control deck with that stable of a mana base across the table from you.
A quick counterpoint on the types-matter argument: Would you say that there's a serious difference between Maritime Guard and Lumengrid Warden?
The types argument is a weak argument. Yes being nonbasic matters, and not having the subtypes matters, but tell me honestly you would like seeing a 5 color control deck with that stable of a mana base across the table from you.
Fetchlands make the basic land types extremely important. A Polluted Delta can give you Badlands, Bayou, Scrubland, Tundra, Underground Sea, or Volcanic Island - in other words any color, on demand, untapped.
However, I agree your sample mana base is pretty nice too. I could see Wizards printing the no drawback except land type duals for standard and letting them rotate out after a year or two. Similar to lightning bolt's reappearance.
Actually, the more I think about it the more I think that would be really interesting for Modern because some people would prefer "neo-duals" and some fetchland/shocklands.
(Although you could potentially add a clause limiting the amount of mana it produces to one.)
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Land
When Dead Zone enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life.
Dead Zone is a plains and a swamp.
Cloudreach Citadel
Land
Wisdom -- Cloudreach Citadel enters the battlefield tapped unless you have five or more cards in your hand.
T: Add W or U to your mana pool.
Cycled out, obviously.
Blooming Hills
Land - Forest Plains
You can't cast Blooming Hills during your first or second turns of the game.
T: Add W or U
or
~cardname enters the battlefield tapped unless your opponent controls a plains or island (or maybe unless your opponent controls one of the other 3 lands?)
T: Add W or U
Something along the lines of this I think would be fine and workable
Barren Isles
Land - Swamp Island
~ comes into play tapped.
There, you have a land with two basic land types that you can put at uncommon. Sure, they are worse than shocklands, but at uncommon you allow your average joe to afford them, and they would be great for buget commander decks.
Alternatively, this was another idea that I had:
Traquil Grasslands
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Forestcylcing W, plainscycling G
Land -- Swamp Island
Sacrifice ~ if a forest is in play.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Reverse-Avenger Tundra
Land - Plains Island
a) CARDNAME enters the field tapped unless it is your first, second, or third turn of the game.
b) CARDNAME enters the field tapped if it is after your first three turns of the game.
maybe too similar to Blackcleave Cliffs.
Enemy-hate Tundra
Land - Plains Island
a) CARDNAME enters the field tapped unless an opponent controls a Swamp, Mountain, or Forest.
b) CARDNAME enters the field tapped if an opponent controls a Plains or Island.
Maybe too good, but it is an interesting drawback in a mirror match.
Landcycling is best when it is on large mid to late game spells. It gives you something something useful you can do with the card before you would otherwise be able to cast it. Change this into a gold spell and it will be more interesting.
This is actually pretty sweet. I could see this double cycled.
Land - C
Decaying Marsh enters the battlefield with 3 storage counters.
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, remove 1 storage counter from Decaying Marsh: Add U or B to your mana pool.
Sorta like a Vivid Land, but having the opposite flavor. I think it sorta works for a "crap sack world", like I imagine Innistrad to be.
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool if a creature attacked this turn.
Land (R)
If Cloud Temple would enter the battlefield, sacrifice an untapped land instead. If you do, put Cloud Temple onto the battlefield. If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
Standard: :symu::symb: Control
Here's my latest ideas:
Sundrenched Valley
Land - Mountain Plains
(T: Add R or W to your mana pool.)
When Sundrenched Valley enters the battlefield, return another land you control to its owner's hand.
I got this idea from the Lair Cycle, but edited it a bit. It's great because it allows you to play a dual land first turn with no drawbacks. Later on, it's weaker, but still playable maybe.
Next:
Somber Countrside
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add W or B to your mana pool. Activate this ablity only during your turn.
It has a definite drawback on the first turn. If you have no other lands to return, you have to return Sundrenched Valley itself.
Except for interactions with Twiddle effects and a few lands like Flagstones of Trokair, that is almost just Sungrass Prairie.
Exiled Land
Land
When ~ comes into play you may search your library for a land card and exile it, then shuffle your library.
Tap ~: add one mana of any type that land could produce to your mana pool.
Better than fetch:
Don't pay life, don't need to be tapped (Root Maze effects?), Neddle effects proff, can fetch nonbasic lands like city of brass, gemstone mine, painlands, etc.
Worst than fetch:
Doesn't go to graveyard (Crucible, Reliquary, theshold in general would be worst), can't be activated later (shuffle reasons), isn't Wasteland proof and will never put Basic Landtypes into play (Kird Ape and stuff are worst with it).
|UWR Control|
|GW Maverick|
MTGO username: joserech
Instead of sacrificing lands, how about riffing off of the Enigma Sphinx mechanic like so:
Enigma Lands Cycle:
Cloud Temple
Land (R)
When Cloud Temple enters the battlefield, put an untapped land you control into its owner’s library second from the top.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
or
Cloud Temple
Land (R)
Cloud Temple doesn't untap during your untap step.
:symtap:: Add :symw::symu: to your mana pool.
:1mana:: Untap Cloud Temple. Activate this ability only once per turn.
ect
Also uncommon color fixer land:
Shifting Expanse
Land (U)
Add one mana of a random color to your mana pool.
Standard: :symu::symb: Control
That's a good point. Good design also takes into account how people naturally read cards. In that case, you can do what the Lair lands did and just give them all a type. The card would return a non-type.
Here's another card I was thinking of recently (tying to come up for a INN multicolored land)
Lotus Cemetery
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of a color of a card in your graveyard to your mana pool.
I'm not sure on the wording, but you get the gist. Also, one more idea I had (yes, I spend far too much effort thinking about this):
Heart of Zendikar
Land
Landfall - If you had a land enter the battelfield under your control this turn, Heart of Zendikar gains, "T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool," until end of turn.
Now, how's about that for first turn no drawbacks for any color of mana? It may be too powerful, but it deserves some testing. Finally, when thinking of Fetchable lands, something dawned on me yesterday: my favorite land to fetch in EDH is Murmoring Bosk. Therefore, why not try to riff on that idea?
Ichor Tarn
Land - Swamp
(T: Add B to your mana pool.)
Marsh Ruins enters the battlefield tapped unless you control another swamp.
T, Pay 1 life: Add U or R to your mana pool.
So waddaya think?
Squalling Plains
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add W or U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn.
So lets look at how this plays exactly...
Basically the only thing this doesn't do is get searched up by fetches, and I think that's a pretty easy price to pay for the power something like this would have.
What I would be worried about is since this would come in a cycle, people playing 5 color decks, with the only drawback being you basically have to play a land every turn... Not sure what I think about that.
Land
T: Add W or U to your mana pool.
...allied colors cycled out...
Sacred Necropolis (Common)
Land
T: Add W or B to your mana pool.
...enemy colors cycled out...
I think, as you said, having a cycle would really push 4-5 color decks. This is why I summed it all into one. I agree the land I made would probably be to powerful, but here's the biggest knock against mine I think you missed. Without fetchlands, you can't activate them on your opponents turn. So consider that too.
Um...what? No, just no. I understand that you want powerful lands that everyone can get, but the fact is there is no creativity in this idea. I like it when players have to think to build their mana bases. How mana lands etb tapped? How many hurt you? etc.
Shimmering Grotto is a perfect example of a great common multicolored land. The invasion dual land cycle could probably be at common as well.
What about...
Artesian Well
Land - Plains Island
(T: Add W or U to your mana pool.)
As ~ enters the battlefield, you may have it enter the battlefield tapped. If you don't, tap it at the beginning of your next end step. It doesn't untap during your next untap step.
Fetchable, and allows either turn one or turn two color fixing.
On the other hand, we could always change your bounce land to say "As CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may have it enter the battlefield tapped. If you don’t, return another land you control to its owner’s hand." That way it's still playable past turn one as a Coastal Tower or whatever.
Wow, I never thought of this. These would be awesome for Modern.
It's close, but I'm pretty sure these would not violate the Reprint Policy: "A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness."
The next question is would these be better or worse than shocklands for Modern? Probably worse...? I don't know.. they would be awesome though.
http://bopmtg.net/topdecks
Here's my blue control deck's mana base. Its really more like 5 color control, but its cool cuz I never have mana problems.
4x WU Untapped dual
4x UB Untapped dual
4x UR Untapped dual
4x UG Untapped dual
4x WB Untapped dual
4x WR Untapped dual
Why wouldn't I just run 16x of my main color's duals? I get ALL untapped lands with insane fixing. This sort of thing is fine for a cube design or something like that, where you want people to have fun and cast their spells. In a real constructed format (Yes they actually exist in Legacy and Vintage, guess why those formats are so fast), these are straight up broken. Wizards will never put the original Dual-Lands in Standard again, guaranteed. Its fairly likely they'll do something like the Shock-Lands, but the ability to color-fix and stay untapped without any condition whatsoever is too strong. It makes them better than basics all of the time. The types argument is a weak argument. Yes being nonbasic matters, and not having the subtypes matters, but tell me honestly you would like seeing a 5 color control deck with that stable of a mana base across the table from you.
A quick counterpoint on the types-matter argument: Would you say that there's a serious difference between Maritime Guard and Lumengrid Warden?
Fetchlands make the basic land types extremely important. A Polluted Delta can give you Badlands, Bayou, Scrubland, Tundra, Underground Sea, or Volcanic Island - in other words any color, on demand, untapped.
However, I agree your sample mana base is pretty nice too. I could see Wizards printing the no drawback except land type duals for standard and letting them rotate out after a year or two. Similar to lightning bolt's reappearance.
Actually, the more I think about it the more I think that would be really interesting for Modern because some people would prefer "neo-duals" and some fetchland/shocklands.
http://bopmtg.net/topdecks