Any suggestions? I've been told on another site that these are underpowered.
Ultimatum of Vengeance WWWBBRR
Sorcery (R)
Sacrifice a creature. Ultimatum of Vengeance deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature's power to all creatures target opponent controls.
Ultimatum of Dreams UUURRGG
Sorcery (R)
Reveal and exile up to five nonland cards from your library. You may play those cards without paying their casting cost for as long as Ultimatum of Dreams is in your graveyard.
Ultimatum of the Harvest BBBGGWW
Sorcery (R)
Each opponent discards one card at random from their hand. Then put a creature card from each graveyard into play under your control.
Ultimatum of Devastation RRRWWUU
Sorcery (R)
Destroy up to five target lands.
Ultimatum of the Hunt GGGUUBB
Sorcery (R)
Put X +1/+1 counters on creatures you control, where X is that creature's power.
I'd agree. Whbat you need to do is look at the RAV block weeks and find out what each enemy colour pairing does best, then go from there. For example, the Golgari and Simic guilds were obsessed about creatures; Golgari about life and death, Simic about SCIENCE!
Where do these come into play on your card? They don't really.
Sorry. I should have mentioned that these Ultimatums are from a set I'm making based around the Planar_Chaos_dragons.
Ultimatum of Vengeance: I'm pretty sure the sacrificing of the creature should be an additional cost to playing the spell. Yeah, this isn't a fantastic card. At it's best, it's an expensive Wrath. It could be more interesting if you gained life equal to the damage, but that would still be a little underwhelming for seven colored mana.
Ultimatum of Dreams: With the current functionality, it should read, "Search your library for up to five nonland cards (why nonland?) and exile them face-up (why do they have to be revealed?). You may play those cards without paying their mana costs as long as ~ is in your graveyard (why the last restriction? where would the ultimatum go from the graveyard?) A tutor effect like this is actually quite powerful... Brilliant Ultimatum doesn't really see play, but you usually get about 2 spells out of it, and they're random ones off the top of your library. I'd restrict it to tutoring for 3 cards.
Ultimatum of Harvest: This one doesn't work with the current functionality. You have to choose the targets as you cast the spell, before stuff is discarded. How about this: "Each opponent reveals their hand and discards all creature cards in it. Put those cards onto the battlefield under your control." That would also bring it to a more interesting power level.
Ultimatum of Devastation: The wording works. I guess it's pretty powerful effect, but it shouldn't be format-warping or anything. It works.
Ultimatum of the Hunt: It might be fine as-is, but the wording might need to be "For each creature you control, put X +1/+1 counters on it, where X is that creature's power." This one's power level is decent as well, and the casual-multiplayer player in me kinda likes it.
I know the cards are based upon the dragons, but I wouldn't be afraid to mess with the names of the ultimatums. "The Hunter" wasn't a fantastic title in the first place, but "The Hunt" really has little to do with what the card actually does. Don't be afraid to deviate a little bit more from the designs of the original dragons as well; they're elder dragons, meaning they are wise/cruel/cunning rather than just big and dumb like some other dragons, meaning they're probably capable of doing a little bit more than, say, dealing 3 damage to every nonwhite creature. Interesting designs nonetheless.
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This space dedicated to Duane Allman. Wail on Skydog!
Sorry. I should have mentioned that these Ultimatums are from a set I'm making based around the Planar_Chaos_dragons.
That may be so, but at the very least the mechanics/motivations of the three intersecting RAV guilds would be a good starting point.
RRRWWUU
Red-white-blue is the intersection of Boros, Izzet, and Azorius. Just looking at their keywords: radiance, replicate, and forecast are abilities that spread, multiply, and repeat. Whatever your red-white-blue ultimatum does, it should have some of that element in it and not just be a bigger version of Numot, the Devastator's ability. For a bad most-likely-over-powered example:
Target creature you control deals damage equal to its power to another target creature or player.
When you cast CARDNAME, copy it for each other creature you control that it could target. Each copy targets a different one of those creatures for the first target. You may choose new targets for the rest of the targets.
GGGUUBB
Green-blue-black is the intersection of Simic, Golgari, and Dimir. Their keywords graft, dredge, and transmute don't appear to have that much in common. Dredge and transmute put cards from either the graveyard or the library into the hand, so we could try some sort of tutoring ability if nothing else. However, some broader mechanics of the three including mill, grave recursion, and copying could be more successful. For super-wordy example:
Each player puts the top ten cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. Then you may put a creature card of your choice from each graveyard onto the field under its owner's control. If you do, until end of turn, each other creature that player controls becomes a copy of that creature and the "legend rule" doesn't apply.
@ Aristotle: The names are just fillers, and will be changed as the set nears completion. Also, how are these rewordings for you?
Ultimatum of Vengeance
As an additional cost to cast Ultimatum of Vengeance, sacrifice a creature.
Ultimatum of Vengeance deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature’s power to target opponent and each creature that player controls.
Ultimatum of Dreams
Reveal and exile up to five nonland cards from your library. Once per turn, you may play a card exiled by Ultimatum of Dreams without paying its casting cost and as though it had flash.
It might be a lot simpler to simply focus on what the "colors" do best and combine them to a brutal blowout effect.
The ultimatums that don't do that are pretty boring, thats what makes me like Cruel, Violent and Titanic the best, they play out well, the other 2 simply suck at what they do, and don't really do what you would expect from the color.
Ultimatum of Vengeance :symw::symw::symw::symb::symb::symr::symr:
Sorcery (R)
Sacrifice any number of permanents. For each permanent sacrificed this way, exile target permanent of the same type. Put a white,red,black Avatar token onto the battlfield with power and thoughness equal to the number of sacrificed permanents this way.
This will produce an "Avatar of Vengeance" and use the sacrifice to enforce a direct trade. White,black and red are the colors that define removal, blue and green normally don't have removal at all, so the Ultimatum of this color combination should be the most powerfull removal and give a clear sign of "Vengeance" , "Balance" and "Destruction".
Ultimatum of Dreams :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery (R)
Exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card, put it in your hand. Repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card.
Your version is way to similiar to the blue/white/black one, just that its totally insane overpowered, as its a direct "you in the game", i can't see someone cast this and really lose, no matter what your opponent has, you will get removal, win options against anything.
Just keep in mind that "without paying its manacost" is an insane dangerous thing, you never know how badly somewill will abuse your card and manacosts are no longer a protection to keep cards balanced than.
My idea for your card here will give you a big card advantage and a possible way to draw 1 card of every card type, but it will requiere you to be "smart" at doing your job.
If you exile too much cards for creatures, you might no longer continue for the other types.
Keep in mind that you can't change the row what you search, you have to search for a creature first, than land, artifact and so on, which at worst (if you are kinda stupid) can kill yourself if you don't reveal one of the types (as you exiled them for one before).
The card is a giant card advantage and can tutor you some combos, but i think it does the job at an intresting way and it requieres a little more brainpower so you don't miss a card, as you have to exile your library if you can't find something (which is a Semi random drawback if you can't controll your "power", which is a nice flavour extra aswell).
Ultimatum of the Harvest :symb::symb::symb::symg::symg::symw::symw:
Sorcery (R)
Put any number of creature and land cards from any graveyard onto the battlfield under your control. Then put all enchantment cards from all graveyards on the battlefield under your controll.
I dislike the "random discard" on your card, and i would aim for a massive Mass Ressurection , returning creatures, lands and enchantments. If you can build a deck that has fetchlands, creatures to resurrect and such, you can really wreck havoc if this card resolves, but keep in mind that a similiar thing happens in Open the Vaults, Patriarchs Bidding and the like, and they are allways cards to "win" , this card kicks it to the top as you are the one that will get all the cards, so enjoy the graveyards.
Powerwise its not much more "game winning" than any other of the Ultimatums (the good and playable ones) , if theirs graveyard removal, you will have problems, so keep an eye open for Relic of Progrenitus, Tormods Crypt, Jund Charm and all of that (counterspells like allways).
Ultimatum of Devastation :symr::symr::symr::symw::symw::symu::symu:
Sorcery (R)
Destroy all tapped or untapped permanents.
The boring thing is that this is too similiar to the Violent Ultimatum and so much worser in the effect, as you simply Armageddon your opponent, but they will still kick your face with what they allready have.
Ofcourse you can say that they will lose if you "Wrath" the board before, but for 7 mana you could simply run better cards , or use Ajani to do the job a lot better (or run an mass land destruction and play like any Armageddon).
So what do the colors do best ?
Blue and White are a lot about "tapping" things down, and red/white have a lot of Mass Removal (ala Planar Cleansing, Obliterate etc.).
Its pretty much aims for a Mass Removal that cares for tapped/untapped.
If you play this card and choose "tapped" it will most likely wreck your own lands , but as its best kill anything except your creatures, which is really powerfull if you can pull this switch.
However, you can allways choose "untapped" and keep everything you have and kill your opponents cards, the bad is just that they will allways tap lands for mana to protect them (which you can do ofcourse aswell) , so its a two-sided edge, choose what is best for you, but you should allways have a major advantage after this resolves if used clever.
Ultimatum of the Hunt :symg::symg::symg::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery (R)
Put a number of +1/+1 counters on each creature you control equal to that creature's power. Put a number of -1/-1 counter on each creature you don't controll equal to that creatures power.
This goes more along the green Decree, as its job is to give a huge boost to your own guys, so thats a "mono green" thing allready. To give it the bonus of blue and black, i think its good to give the other guys -1/-1 counters, so your advantage is even higher, and most the time you will kill that creatures (unless they have some odd p/t).
Keep in mind that you should allways avoid "X" in your cards if the card doesnt use the X as a real value in its manacost, it is bad wording doing so, choose "equal" in this case.
This means, a FireBall uses X in the cost, so it makes sence to use the X in the card, but if you just want something "equal" to something else, say exactly that and don't use X, its irritating and bad wording (but a lot do that mistake).
Ultimatum of Dreams UUURRGG
Sorcery (R)
Exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card, put it in your hand. Repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card.
Right now, this card has a high chance of decking, or nearly decking you. Chaotic and potentially disastrous consequences are definitly red, however, I do not see that as part of a UG ultimatum. How about this instead.
Ultimatum of DreamsUUURRGG
Sorcery (R) You may exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card. Put that card into your hand and put the exiled cards on the bottom in a random order. Repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card
This way the spell won't kill you unless you have none of the card type you are looking for. I also updated the wording so that it matches those of cards like Abundance and Bloodbraid Elf.
Well a main thing is that if you get to tutor for 7 cards, its not unlickly that you will really win with that and its even possible to go and abuse it in a combo deck , as you can search a "instant" mana ritual, a creature that makes mana (ala Spirit Guide), a "sorcery" mana ritual , a planeswalker ala Garruck , an Enchantment that might be your combo piece (or Heartbeat of Spring for more mana), a land that makes more mana or is somehow important, artifact can do pretty much anything.
So what ever happens the card is very very dangerous to be broken and so the protection with the possibility to deck yourself is a good thing, its flavour is big:
You call power, and it will kill you and explode your mind if you can't manage to controll it.
Blue is about searching cards with a Long-Term Plans, just take the card.
Red is about "one-shot blow out" and random tutoring (ala Wild Research, Gamble, chaos itself).
Green tutors for growth, which means abstract that the card will fuel your brain with knowledge to its maximum, and that can give you a deadly headache.
Just as a extra hint:
Ofcourse you "think" its dangerous to deck yourself, but nobody says you have to build a deck that is lickly to die with it, just run enough targets to search for, or play it with a bigger library to be more save (ala EDH with 300 cards battle of the Wits plan).
And ofcourse you can run some cards to get exiled cards back, even in color with "Research" and friends.
The card offers an insane amount of fueling power, its your job to find a way to "absorb" all of it.
But what if I don't own a planeswalker? Oops. I just died.
Considering their mythic rarity, and their associated monetary cost, we can't assume that there will be one in every deck that wants to run this, and making a card that will kill you if you don't run at least one is a little, well, bad.
How about something like:
Ultimatum of Dreams UUURRGG
Sorcery
For each card type, you may reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card of that type, then put that card into your hand. Exile all other cards revealed this way.
Also, EDH decks are exactly 100 cards (99 if you don't count your general.) Just sayin'.
Counterpoint suggestions, from our wedge-Alara project over in the Custom Set forum:
Ruinous UltimatumWWWBBRR
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can’t be regenerated. For each creature destroyed this way, Ruinous Ultimatum deals 2 damage to target player and you gain 2 life.
Crescendo UltimatumUUURRGG
Sorcery
Tap all permanents, then untap all permanents you control.
Immortal UltimatumBBBGGWW
Sorcery
Each player removes all permanent cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all permanents he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.
Dazzling UltimatumRRRWWUU
Sorcery
Exile all permanents you own, then take three extra turns after this one. At the beginning of target opponent’s next upkeep, return all exiled permanent cards you own to the battlefield. Only seconds after Shikon’s arrival, an entire plane changed forever.
Subversive UltimatumGGGUUBB
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for five cards and remove them from the game. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards removed this way on top of their owners’ library in any order.
But what if I don't own a planeswalker? Oops. I just died.
Well the thing is that it wants you to play all types like Battle of the Wits wants you to play a big library.
If you don't do what the card wants, well, the card is not for your deck.
But as it has a point it could be possible to simply make it:
Ultimatum of Dreams :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery (R)
Exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card, put it in your hand. You may repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card.
But it loses the factor of its flavour point.
This way you can say "I have enough i won't eat more knowledge" , but the flavour really is about getting the full power of knowledge till your head my explode.
So ofcourse its possible, but the card works better if you need to find your information , and its not hard to do so, especially as Planeswalkers arent really "bad" and you might play at least a bunch any way, especially if you run this card.
And you don't need to play them as i said, just have an option to fuel your library after you decked yourself, theirs plenty of options doing this, counting "Research", "Mirror of Fate" , "Beacons" and a lot more, so be a little inspired, not every card has to work without any need of "ideas".
Ruinous Ultimatum :symw::symw::symw::symb::symb::symr::symr:
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can’t be regenerated. For each creature destroyed this way, Ruinous Ultimatum deals 2 damage to target player and you gain 2 life.
This design goes along Titanic Ultimatum, as it uses an existing card and adds some "kicker" to it. In this case Wrath of God / Damnation , the bonus of life gain is kinda meaningless, but the damage you deal is really kinda overpowered, as it will win a game more than not.
I mean ofcourse you ramp into this card fast, kill everything and punsh in for a 20 damage burn at your opponent, thats kinda silly.
The life gain is an extra, not important, but the damage is too much really.
Even with "1" instead of "2" damage you can easy pull a game you lose, even more than Cruel Ultimatum (which gives a great card advantage, but its limited to 5 life), so against any beatdown you can say they have at least 3 creatures, if not more, and if you run "this" card you will abuse it and put a giant amount of tokens in play, for simply everyone just to kick out your game winner.
Overall, possible but it somehow feels boring as i would run pretty much any "wrath" as i need it faster than 7 mana (no matter how cool they are, i am dead if i can't kill creatures early on).
Crescendo Ultimatum :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery
Tap all permanents, then untap all permanents you control.
Well i really don't enjoy this, it feels so random and bad, in no way like a "Ultimatum" wants to feel.
Immortal Ultimatum :symb::symb::symb::symg::symg::symw::symw:
Sorcery
Each player removes all permanent cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all permanents he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.
More or less similiar as it "mass" reanimats, but it seems really game winning in every case.
I mean in absolut worst you will "Obliterate" everything , and as its best you one side Obliterate everything and win the game, a singel fattie is enough in that case , not even a lot.
And as i feel this effect should be "better" if you use more reanimation, and not totally Obliterate anything you play against, its really enough to get just the reanimation, as all 3 colors share a theme to "reanimate" dead things, but killing anything doing that is just overkill.
Dazzling Ultimatum :symr::symr::symr::symw::symw::symu::symu:
Sorcery
Exile all permanents you own, then take three extra turns after this one. At the beginning of target opponent’s next upkeep, return all exiled permanent cards you own to the battlefield. Only seconds after Shikon’s arrival, an entire plane changed forever.
Well, blue has the "big" part of extra turns, red just gets the "one-shot all in" in Final Fortune , but white doesnt use it. This card is not bad, as the effect is nice, but i can't feel the Ultimatum Multicolor part of this one.
I would enjoy it as a "blue" card , only blue, feels flavourwise like what Urza used to do against Phyrexia, putting themself in a different time so they have more time to think the opponents out (or was it different ?).
However you hopefully get what i mean.
Subversive Ultimatum :symg::symg::symg::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for five cards and exile them. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards exiled this way on top of their owners’ library in any order.
Well here its not bad, but i feel this card more "blue/black" as it really goes to "extract" something and give things to you or lock a player with 5 land draws.
While the idea is good i think searching for "5" cards is really way too much, as you will go for "Time Warp , Time Warp, Time Warp, Time Warp" and give your opponents 5 lands, i can't see a fun in that other than its totally annoying, especially as it takes so freaking long in Multiplayer to tutor 4+ librarys for 5 cards (at least 5minutes thats annoying ****).
Might be a great effect reduced to just a singel card, as thats allready fair:
Subversive Act :symg::symu::symb:
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for a card and exile them. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards exiled this way on top of their owners library.
This could work a lot better, as its a small tutor for you, a "extract" and will help a lot more decks without the annoying "Time Warp" chains.
But it has the problem too that it takes so much time to play it in multiplayer, might be enough to just focus on graveyards and "top 5 cards" of each library or something:
Subversive Act :symg::symu::symb:
Sorcery
Search all graveyards and top five cards of each library for a card and exile them. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards exiled this way on top of their owners library.
This is faster to execute, ofcourse less powerfull, might even be an idea that you can put the 5 cards back in any order or something.
A lot possible tweaks here, but the idea is good, just not for an Ultimatum and 5 cards.
The cards that combo with exiling your library are few and far between, and even then, we have Leveler for that, we don't need a janky tutor that has a good chance of killing you unless you run a few mythic rares (and rather costly mythic rares at that.)
Yes, planeswalkers are great. Yes, lots of decks want them. No, you shouldn't make a tutor that kills you unless you run them. The other, more common (as in more of them, not rarity) card types? Sure. Planeswalkers? No. At least not until they're more abundant.
Removing the planeswalker type would be okay. You still get the blowout "oh no I learned too much and now my head imploded!" turn, but it doesn't make its non-lethality dependant on a few (mythic) rare, incredibly saught after cards.
As for Battle of Wits, a big library is pretty easy to do, if that's your thing. It can be made up of cards from all sorts of rarities, it doesn't say "you must either spend 6+ dollars on a card or be incredibly lucky and crack one or I will kill you."
The cards that combo with exiling your library are few and far between, and even then, we have Leveler for that, we don't need a janky tutor that has a good chance of killing you unless you run a few mythic rares (and rather costly mythic rares at that.)
Its your job to give a set with this cards a way out, just make a mechanic that cares for the "exile" zone.
Same examples:
Knight of the Void WW
Creature - Spirit, Knight
You may cast ~ only from the exile.
First Strike
Whenever a creature damaged by ~ is put into a graveyard from the battlfield, exile it.
2/2
Blast of the Void R
Instant
You may cast ~ only from the exile.
~ deals 2 damage to target creature.
Flashback 7R
Wave of Eternity 3U
Sorcery
Shuffle all exiled cards into their owner's libraries.
You see you can build more cards if you feel their are not enough, Time Spiral started a good job as it had Suspend using the Exile zone and cards that interact with it.
You might ask yourself how do you play the cards if they are "stuck" in your hand ?
Be sure that a set with this idea would have some "Pitch" spells, use Delve , use more carddraw/discard , maybe even has something along Threshold and Madness to fuel the wheel of mechanics around every possible zone in the game.
Everything works, just build the set around to accomplish it.
But even right now theirs not much that prevents you.
You don't die if you can survive with cards if you mill yourself.
This doesnt mean you need wacky cards, theirs enough to put cards from your graveyard in your library, skip your draw (ala Words of War etc.) , or you keep you alive via shuffling exiled cards back, its your job to find interactions , or you simply do what the card wants you to do, building a deck with every card type.
Yes, planeswalkers are great. Yes, lots of decks want them. No, you shouldn't make a tutor that kills you unless you run them. The other, more common (as in more of them, not rarity) card types? Sure. Planeswalkers? No. At least not until they're more abundant.
Little prevents you from making some "lesser" planeswalkers or some spells that interact with them more (like the ideas of spells that use loyality counters for discount, or get a "kicker" if you have the planeswalker in play). Here again, its your job to make the cards if you feel they don't exist.
Removing the planeswalker type would be okay.
Yes it would, but its actual the only type that is a kind of "drawback" and a card that tutors for 7 cards really should have some kind of drawback, and that drawback is something to live with isnt it?
You still get the blowout "oh no I learned too much and now my head imploded!" turn, but it doesn't make its non-lethality dependant on a few (mythic) rare, incredibly saught after cards.
Yes right now (and as it seems in near future) Planeswalkers will stay Mythic, but i think it would be a good idea to make more "VS" decks, so the planeswalkers are a lot easier to access , WotC just can't get ideas to make some quick money like that (but they will for sure in future).
As for Battle of Wits, a big library is pretty easy to do, if that's your thing. It can be made up of cards from all sorts of rarities, it doesn't say "you must either spend 6+ dollars on a card or be incredibly lucky and crack one or I will kill you."
Well a "good" Battle of the Wits deck really forces you to play a very clear deck, a lot of tutors and such, and the card just says you need a card of each type, for the card itself it doesnt matter how much they cost in 2nd market, and i doubt planeswalker are "all" expensive (just take Jace, Chandra or such, they cost not much).
However, it might make clear that its the job of the designer to make "singel" cards, but more important focus on the set to support your cards in a big view, and such cards especially show it.
I have a tangential question. One of the biggest concerns for what makes an ultimatum is that it feels like it fits the intersection of all its colors. But my question is, how does this apply to Brilliant Ultimatum? It allows you to play a number of cards from the top of your library for free; definitely a blue effect, could possibly be black, but that's stretching it. I don't see anything white about the card at all. Moreover, it doesn't seem to "feel" to me like it represents Esper, or its tri-color arc. WUB isn't about playing things for free, it's about control. All three colors love to take control of the game, dominating the permanents on the board as well as the cards in your hand and the spells you play. It thrives on restricting its opponents options, leaving them paralyzed while you lord over them.
But, that's just my view of it anyway. I'd like to know if anyone else has a justification for that particular ultimatum; if not, it's probably all right to be a little bit loose with their bizarro wedge versions also, though not too much.
Well in abstract you can see Brillian Ultimatum as :
- Blue gets card draw , small part about "for free" cards in form of Minds Dessire and such.
- Black is about gaining power, card draw, not that crazy about this play for free, but its for sure ok as it is, so power through knowledge, especially as your opponent is making the choice of "damnation" in the card.
- White has a little interaction with the "exile" zone, its for sure not about card draw, but you can imply a "fairness" that your opponent makes the choice to group the cards. In abstract you can feel like a "Astral Slide" , just that you actual pay mana to get the cards out of the Exile in play.
I won't say its a good Ultimatum, but in the end you can explain a bunch of it, even if i don't like it as an Ultimatum and i don't like the flavour of it, especially as it really doesnt reflect Esper much (just a little, as Espers have a little theme of "mind controll" story wise turning a bunch of beasts from naya on their side and the like, or manipulating others, and especially are the "smart" shard , and its a big part of Fact or Fiction, and Choice of Damnation, but thats all "stretched" and not really good executed. Even WotC sucks from time to time, like everyone).
As these cards are posted as singles, I think it is fair to evaluate them in a vacuum, and considering the OP's version had very little to do with exiling your entire library, I think it is fair to say that if this did come from a set, the set it came from cares very little for exiled cards.
TheOnlyOne652089 once said... Yes it would, but its actual the only type that is a kind of "drawback" and a card that tutors for 7 cards really should have some kind of drawback, and that drawback is something to live with isnt it?
The drawback is it costs 7 coloured mana, you don't choose what you tutor for and it'll likely exile half your deck. It will also tutor for 6 cards, if you remove Planeswalker.
just take Jace, Chandra or such, they cost not much
Jace goes for 6 tix on MtGO, which is why I said 6+. That may not seem like much to some, but for some casual players, it is far too much to spend on a single card, and seeing as this card is aimed at casual players, it's probably not a good idea to put a "run Planeswalkers (or some jank rares from a few years ago) or die!" clause on it.
Also, I really like Crescendo Ultimatum. It might be better as "Tap all permanents. Take an extra turn after this one."
Dazzling Ultimatum seems a little underwhelming. 3 turns is nice, but it's 3 turns starting from scratch, against an opponent with a quite probably well-developed board position. Maybe if you had some splashy ETB effects, but then there's not much point to all the extra turns.
Subversive Ultimatum isn't green at all, and would be horribly painful to play against. Quite possibly overpowered.
As these cards are posted as singles, I think it is fair to evaluate them in a vacuum, and considering the OP's version had very little to do with exiling your entire library, I think it is fair to say that if this did come from a set, the set it came from cares very little for exiled cards.
I would never give a word to something will "not" be, but anything is possible. And its not said that every card is made for the set its in itself, theirs even Cross-Block interactions of cards, that really make a card shine, just take Mirror of Fate, in M10 alone it does really "nothing" as the only card that exiles cards is Haunting Echoes, but who knows if we get a "exile" zone theme for any of the upcomming sets in the future.
The drawback is it costs 7 coloured mana, you don't choose what you tutor for and it'll likely exile half your deck. It will also tutor for 6 cards, if you remove Planeswalker.
Costing 7 mana is not considered a "drawback" , if you want to mana ramp with mana rituals you are free to do so, ofcourse its not a card some beatdown plays, its a card for players that win with it when cast, and thats pretty much any controll player (drawing in Garruck, Time Warp, Counterspell, mana rituals, you really think you will lose after that? cmon).
Jace goes for 6 tix on MtGO, which is why I said 6+. That may not seem like much to some, but for some casual players, it is far too much to spend on a single card, and seeing as this card is aimed at casual players, it's probably not a good idea to put a "run Planeswalkers (or some jank rares from a few years ago) or die!" clause on it.
Well if you design for the 2nd market you do something wrong.
Sometimes you make cards that casual players can't enjoy, just take Baneslayer Angel, how many "Budget" player can buy 4 of that ? This doesnt mean its a bad card, designing cards should never be about 2nd market at all, otherwise Fetchlands should be "uncommon" and never rare (as they are auto include in pretty much "any" deck).
And ofcourse you don't run "Leveler" and other cards if you can't fight against the drawback.
How boring would magic be if every card could be played without any drawback you have to tinker around with ?
TheOnlyOne652089 once said... Sometimes you make cards that casual players can't enjoy, just take Baneslayer Angel, how many "Budget" player can buy 4 of that ? This doesnt mean its a bad card, designing cards should never be about 2nd market at all, otherwise Fetchlands should be "uncommon" and never rare (as they are auto include in pretty much "any" deck).
It's not about how many casual players can buy a card, it's about what a players reaction will be if they get lucky and crack it from a booster. Mr. Newbie cracks a Baneslayer: "Awesome! It's an angel and can kill dragons!" The same Mr. Newbie cracks an Ultimatum of Dreams: "Awesome! It can get me lots of cards! Wait, Planeswalker? I don't even own any so it kills me. Ew."
This card is rather blatantly geared towards the casual "Timmy" player, and it won't go down a hit if it kills them dead upon use.
Removing it's ability to search Planeswalkers nerfs it enough that it probably doesn't need the added drawback of obliterating your library. You say it's overpowered in ramp decks, but in all likelihood you are going to end up with a Kodama's Reach, Overgrowth, Mind Stone, Dreamscape Artist and a few other things. And honestly, if you can make it to UUURRGG you probably deserve to have a splashy next turn. It doesn't generate any more card advantage than a Cruel Ultimatum.
Well its hard to argue as you have a kinda different view of things than i do.
If i would open Ultimatum of Dreams in a Booster, i would go and build a deck that utilizes every card type, and be happy about it.
Its a card that is made for "deck building" not being instantly overpowered no matter in what deck you run it (that can actual cast it, which is flashy enough).
The pure ability to gain +7 cards is huge, and like i said if you resolve it you win, how you accomplish it is actual the fun to build a deck with it, more or less like it is with Warped World (which forces you to build decks with a lot permanents and avoid "spells" as much as possible).
So in the end you can sum the ideas of the card up to:
- It is a Ultimatum with a flashy manacost.
- It cares for "play all card types" , which is like a Theme in a deck.
- Its flavour will fuel your mind , if you are "smart" enough to have an idea of every kind, you survive it, otherwise it will shatter your library (aka your long term mind) and you have to keep you alive with what you currently have in your hand / graveyard and battlefield.
- It will fuel your hand with 7 cards , and 7 is actual the number of your hand size, so you keep the cards even after the turn ends, which is a nice number.
Its like the "super" version of Guided Passage, a card that made a lot of peops happy building decks with it, and the limitation of it turns out to be not good enough (as you get the worst of your cards from your deck, if that is still "good" you have a gain).
Skipping planeswalker because they are 2nd market expensive, or a rare card type (or mythic card type) is a thing that is for sure not "wrong" , but for my taste it takes a big part of the cards aspects that make it what it is.
So i would keep it as an "essential" part of it.
and theirs even a nice flavour reason for it:
- Your mind can't imagine a "planeswalker" and in the try to do so, your head will explode.
See it like an question you can't answer, a "Sphinx" might go insane if it can't answer a question (as Sphinx is flavourwise about making questions).
*Extra Deck section.
Removing it's ability to search Planeswalkers nerfs it enough that it probably doesn't need the added drawback of obliterating your library. You say it's overpowered in ramp decks, but in all likelihood you are going to end up with a Kodama's Reach, Overgrowth, Mind Stone, Dreamscape Artist and a few other things. And honestly, if you can make it to :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg: you probably deserve to have a splashy next turn. It doesn't generate any more card advantage than a Cruel Ultimatum.
Well if you end with a hand with Kodamas's Reach, Overgrowth, Mind Stone and "Dreamscape Artist" you actual pretty much build a really really bad deck with very bad card choices.
Just run "mana rituals" to boost into this card, ofcourse you will find "sorcery" a copy of this card , so play a singel creature, or mana ritual creatures you want to go into, or you use Mirror of Fate as the only Artifact, or "Research" as the only Instant, take something like Tezzeret or Garruck as your singel Planeswalker , what you finally "combo" with is really up to you, and how to "abuse" the effect is not an easy task for older formats.
But i am sure that some combinations of cards give insane results that win the game if you play this card.
And to be save against that, the "exile" part gives a randomness that you might fizzly doing the tutoring for all 7 cards.
Just for your amusing:
I run "rareBox" a casual format were you play only rares and mythics in a "deck" with a giant size (currently like 400 cards) and no lands at all (well ofcourse some are good, but not because they make mana, taking Volraths Stronghold, Academy Ruins, Karakas, Vesuva and such).
You can play every card as a "land" and make mana equal to the manacost of the card (cutting the colorless of cards with colored mana in the cost, artifacts with only colorless manacost produce the colorless mana).
The format is really bonkers, and ofcourse the ultimatum cards are really awesom "lands" and here even this Ultimatum shines.
Ultimatum of Dreams :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery (R)
Exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card, put it in your hand. Repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card.
However at seven mana, I think it could get a slight boost in wording. I would exile all the cards at once, then allow you to choose from among all of those cards.
GGGUUBB
A) Exile any number of cards from the top of your library.
B) Exile the top <five/seven/ten?> cards of your library. You may repeat this process any number of times.
C) Then you may put an artifact card, a creature card, an enchantment card, an instant card, a land card, and a sorcery card exiled this way into your hand.
D) Then put <three/four?> <nonplaneswalker?> cards exiled this way into your hand.
E) Then you may put <three/four?> <nonplaneswalker?> cards of different card types exiled this way into your hand.
Several different options here for the first and second part of the ability. I think A+E with four cards might work well.
So you can essentially tutor for what you want/need. If you get lucky and hit it in the top couple of cards, you don't lose that much. If you don't find it right away, you can keep digging deeper until you do, but you permanently lose more cards from your library.
Ultimatum of the Harvest :symb::symb::symb::symg::symg::symw::symw:
Sorcery (R)
Put any number of creature and land cards from any graveyard onto the battlfield under your control. Then put all enchantment cards from all graveyards on the battlefield under your controll.
This is nice, but I think it should be limited to your own graveyard or it should be a limited number of creatures (even if that limited number is five or six).
A) BBBGGWW
Put any number of creature and land cards from your graveyard onto the field. Then put any number of enchantment cards from your graveyard onto the field.
B) BBBGGWW
Put up to <three?> creature cards from any graveyards onto the field under your control. Then put any number of Aura cards from any graveyards onto the field under your control attached to those creatures.
Ultimatum of the Hunt :symg::symg::symg::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery (R)
Put a number of +1/+1 counters on each creature you control equal to that creature's power. Put a number of -1/-1 counter on each creature you don't controll equal to that creatures power.
Double your creatures' power, and reduce all other creatures' power to 0? Even at seven mana, that seems a little lopsided. Going this route, it could just be a simpler fixed number:
Put three +1/+1 counters on each creature you control. Put three -1/-1 counters on each creature your opponents control.
Could this fit for UUURRGG? The blue-red-green color combination seems like it would revolve around boosting/shrinking/shapeshifting creatures and casting/copying/changing spells.
Ruinous UltimatumWWWBBRR
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can’t be regenerated. For each creature destroyed this way, Ruinous Ultimatum deals 2 damage to target player and you gain 2 life.
That definitely feels BR or even WB, but oddly it doesn't feel WBR ... if that makes any sense. For WBR, I think it should gain a little more control in its vindictive nature. Specifically, I am thinking something like this:
WWWBBRR
Choose a color. Destroy all nonland permanents that aren't colorless or the chosen color. If a permanent destroyed this way would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead. <Creatures of the chosen color get +2/+0 until end of turn.>
...That last sentence might push it a little over the top, but meh.
Black has frequently been stuck with the nonblack restriction. In Planar Chaos and a few other times, white had a nonwhite restriction. In Ravnica, the red-white Boros had radiance. I think it would be appropriate for white-black-red to get color selective sweeps.
Crescendo UltimatumUUURRGG
Sorcery
Tap all permanents [your opponents control], then untap all permanents you control.
There is no reason to punish your teammates.
This is strong, but a little underwhelming for seven mana. Could this be combined with a slightly smaller version of theOnlyOne's GUB ability that I posited to change to URG?
UUURRGG
Untap all permanents you control and put two +1/+1 counters on each creature you control. Tap all permanents your opponents control and put two -1/-1 counters on each creature your opponents control.
Immortal UltimatumBBBGGWW
Sorcery
Each player removes all permanent cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all permanents he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.
Living Death for all permanents would look good if not for the way that it destroys all of your opponents' lands and leaves you presumably with a bunch of fetch lands and/or lands that you have otherwise sacrificed like Geothermal Crevice.
Dazzling UltimatumRRRWWUU
Sorcery
Exile all permanents you own, then take three extra turns after this one. At the beginning of target your opponent’s next upkeep, return all exiled permanent cards you own to the battlefield. Only seconds after Shikon’s arrival, an entire plane changed forever.
Massive Ghostway, draw three, then put all permanent cards exiled with Arc-Slogger onto the field under your control? That last part is pretty questionable, but the rest might be a little under powered.
Subversive UltimatumGGGUUBB
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for five cards and remove them from the game. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards removed this way on top of their owners’ library in any order.
Massive Plow Under is an interesting idea, but it is either horribly overpowered or the wording is horribly ambiguous. Can I search each players' library for five cards and search his or her graveyard for an additional five cards? Or can I only search for five cards total per player? Or is it five cards total, period? I think that last would be really hard to word so that it is easily understood.
A set number per player, then a set number going back on top of that player's library would be the simplest.
For each player, search that player's graveyard and/or library for five cards, exile four of them, then that player shuffles his or her library and puts the fifth card on top of it.
Thank you, HGaramond, for completely hijacking this thread.
I didn't read through the entirety of what was posted here, but from what I can see, there's just been a lot of talk about what would make for good wedge ultimatums. Suggestions about your cards have been made, stuff that other people have already thought up has been brought up, and suggestions on how to improve all of the above have been made as well. From what I read, the general sentiment is that you shouldn't adhere too tightly to the design of the wedge Elder Dragons, but rather focus on what all of the colors do.
That said, although this discussion is healthy, maybe we should try to bring it back to the original topic a little bit. Are there any changes that you've thought of, blackpoe, now that everyone has given you there two cents (or twenty cents, as the case may be)?
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Sorcery (R)
Sacrifice a creature. Ultimatum of Vengeance deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature's power to all creatures target opponent controls.
Ultimatum of Dreams UUURRGG
Sorcery (R)
Reveal and exile up to five nonland cards from your library. You may play those cards without paying their casting cost for as long as Ultimatum of Dreams is in your graveyard.
Ultimatum of the Harvest BBBGGWW
Sorcery (R)
Each opponent discards one card at random from their hand. Then put a creature card from each graveyard into play under your control.
Ultimatum of Devastation RRRWWUU
Sorcery (R)
Destroy up to five target lands.
Ultimatum of the Hunt GGGUUBB
Sorcery (R)
Put X +1/+1 counters on creatures you control, where X is that creature's power.
GAYMER
XXBRG ~~ Kresh Necrophilia ~
WXBXG ~~ Doran Defense ~~~~~
Sorry. I should have mentioned that these Ultimatums are from a set I'm making based around the Planar_Chaos_dragons.
GAYMER
XXBRG ~~ Kresh Necrophilia ~
WXBXG ~~ Doran Defense ~~~~~
Ultimatum of Vengeance: I'm pretty sure the sacrificing of the creature should be an additional cost to playing the spell. Yeah, this isn't a fantastic card. At it's best, it's an expensive Wrath. It could be more interesting if you gained life equal to the damage, but that would still be a little underwhelming for seven colored mana.
Ultimatum of Dreams: With the current functionality, it should read, "Search your library for up to five nonland cards (why nonland?) and exile them face-up (why do they have to be revealed?). You may play those cards without paying their mana costs as long as ~ is in your graveyard (why the last restriction? where would the ultimatum go from the graveyard?) A tutor effect like this is actually quite powerful... Brilliant Ultimatum doesn't really see play, but you usually get about 2 spells out of it, and they're random ones off the top of your library. I'd restrict it to tutoring for 3 cards.
Ultimatum of Harvest: This one doesn't work with the current functionality. You have to choose the targets as you cast the spell, before stuff is discarded. How about this: "Each opponent reveals their hand and discards all creature cards in it. Put those cards onto the battlefield under your control." That would also bring it to a more interesting power level.
Ultimatum of Devastation: The wording works. I guess it's pretty powerful effect, but it shouldn't be format-warping or anything. It works.
Ultimatum of the Hunt: It might be fine as-is, but the wording might need to be "For each creature you control, put X +1/+1 counters on it, where X is that creature's power." This one's power level is decent as well, and the casual-multiplayer player in me kinda likes it.
I know the cards are based upon the dragons, but I wouldn't be afraid to mess with the names of the ultimatums. "The Hunter" wasn't a fantastic title in the first place, but "The Hunt" really has little to do with what the card actually does. Don't be afraid to deviate a little bit more from the designs of the original dragons as well; they're elder dragons, meaning they are wise/cruel/cunning rather than just big and dumb like some other dragons, meaning they're probably capable of doing a little bit more than, say, dealing 3 damage to every nonwhite creature. Interesting designs nonetheless.
That may be so, but at the very least the mechanics/motivations of the three intersecting RAV guilds would be a good starting point.
RRRWWUU
Red-white-blue is the intersection of Boros, Izzet, and Azorius. Just looking at their keywords: radiance, replicate, and forecast are abilities that spread, multiply, and repeat. Whatever your red-white-blue ultimatum does, it should have some of that element in it and not just be a bigger version of Numot, the Devastator's ability. For a bad most-likely-over-powered example:
GGGUUBB
Green-blue-black is the intersection of Simic, Golgari, and Dimir. Their keywords graft, dredge, and transmute don't appear to have that much in common. Dredge and transmute put cards from either the graveyard or the library into the hand, so we could try some sort of tutoring ability if nothing else. However, some broader mechanics of the three including mill, grave recursion, and copying could be more successful. For super-wordy example:
EDIT: Not the card I meant.... Searching.... Fix'd.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4557651&postcount=1
TheWarden's Creative Commons Music Pick Project (Retired):
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336498
Ultimatum of Vengeance
As an additional cost to cast Ultimatum of Vengeance, sacrifice a creature.
Ultimatum of Vengeance deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature’s power to target opponent and each creature that player controls.
Ultimatum of Dreams
Reveal and exile up to five nonland cards from your library. Once per turn, you may play a card exiled by Ultimatum of Dreams without paying its casting cost and as though it had flash.
Did you mean Searing Wind?
GAYMER
XXBRG ~~ Kresh Necrophilia ~
WXBXG ~~ Doran Defense ~~~~~
The ultimatums that don't do that are pretty boring, thats what makes me like Cruel, Violent and Titanic the best, they play out well, the other 2 simply suck at what they do, and don't really do what you would expect from the color.
Ultimatum of Vengeance :symw::symw::symw::symb::symb::symr::symr:
Sorcery (R)
Sacrifice any number of permanents. For each permanent sacrificed this way, exile target permanent of the same type. Put a white,red,black Avatar token onto the battlfield with power and thoughness equal to the number of sacrificed permanents this way.
This will produce an "Avatar of Vengeance" and use the sacrifice to enforce a direct trade. White,black and red are the colors that define removal, blue and green normally don't have removal at all, so the Ultimatum of this color combination should be the most powerfull removal and give a clear sign of "Vengeance" , "Balance" and "Destruction".
Might be a good artwork for the Avatar of Vengeance idea
Ultimatum of Dreams :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery (R)
Exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card, put it in your hand. Repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card.
Your version is way to similiar to the blue/white/black one, just that its totally insane overpowered, as its a direct "you in the game", i can't see someone cast this and really lose, no matter what your opponent has, you will get removal, win options against anything.
Just keep in mind that "without paying its manacost" is an insane dangerous thing, you never know how badly somewill will abuse your card and manacosts are no longer a protection to keep cards balanced than.
My idea for your card here will give you a big card advantage and a possible way to draw 1 card of every card type, but it will requiere you to be "smart" at doing your job.
If you exile too much cards for creatures, you might no longer continue for the other types.
Keep in mind that you can't change the row what you search, you have to search for a creature first, than land, artifact and so on, which at worst (if you are kinda stupid) can kill yourself if you don't reveal one of the types (as you exiled them for one before).
The card is a giant card advantage and can tutor you some combos, but i think it does the job at an intresting way and it requieres a little more brainpower so you don't miss a card, as you have to exile your library if you can't find something (which is a Semi random drawback if you can't controll your "power", which is a nice flavour extra aswell).
Ultimatum of the Harvest :symb::symb::symb::symg::symg::symw::symw:
Sorcery (R)
Put any number of creature and land cards from any graveyard onto the battlfield under your control. Then put all enchantment cards from all graveyards on the battlefield under your controll.
I dislike the "random discard" on your card, and i would aim for a massive Mass Ressurection , returning creatures, lands and enchantments. If you can build a deck that has fetchlands, creatures to resurrect and such, you can really wreck havoc if this card resolves, but keep in mind that a similiar thing happens in Open the Vaults, Patriarchs Bidding and the like, and they are allways cards to "win" , this card kicks it to the top as you are the one that will get all the cards, so enjoy the graveyards.
Powerwise its not much more "game winning" than any other of the Ultimatums (the good and playable ones) , if theirs graveyard removal, you will have problems, so keep an eye open for Relic of Progrenitus, Tormods Crypt, Jund Charm and all of that (counterspells like allways).
Ultimatum of Devastation :symr::symr::symr::symw::symw::symu::symu:
Sorcery (R)
Destroy all tapped or untapped permanents.
The boring thing is that this is too similiar to the Violent Ultimatum and so much worser in the effect, as you simply Armageddon your opponent, but they will still kick your face with what they allready have.
Ofcourse you can say that they will lose if you "Wrath" the board before, but for 7 mana you could simply run better cards , or use Ajani to do the job a lot better (or run an mass land destruction and play like any Armageddon).
So what do the colors do best ?
Blue and White are a lot about "tapping" things down, and red/white have a lot of Mass Removal (ala Planar Cleansing, Obliterate etc.).
Its pretty much aims for a Mass Removal that cares for tapped/untapped.
If you play this card and choose "tapped" it will most likely wreck your own lands , but as its best kill anything except your creatures, which is really powerfull if you can pull this switch.
However, you can allways choose "untapped" and keep everything you have and kill your opponents cards, the bad is just that they will allways tap lands for mana to protect them (which you can do ofcourse aswell) , so its a two-sided edge, choose what is best for you, but you should allways have a major advantage after this resolves if used clever.
Ultimatum of the Hunt :symg::symg::symg::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery (R)
Put a number of +1/+1 counters on each creature you control equal to that creature's power. Put a number of -1/-1 counter on each creature you don't controll equal to that creatures power.
This goes more along the green Decree, as its job is to give a huge boost to your own guys, so thats a "mono green" thing allready. To give it the bonus of blue and black, i think its good to give the other guys -1/-1 counters, so your advantage is even higher, and most the time you will kill that creatures (unless they have some odd p/t).
Keep in mind that you should allways avoid "X" in your cards if the card doesnt use the X as a real value in its manacost, it is bad wording doing so, choose "equal" in this case.
This means, a FireBall uses X in the cost, so it makes sence to use the X in the card, but if you just want something "equal" to something else, say exactly that and don't use X, its irritating and bad wording (but a lot do that mistake).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Right now, this card has a high chance of decking, or nearly decking you. Chaotic and potentially disastrous consequences are definitly red, however, I do not see that as part of a UG ultimatum. How about this instead.
Ultimatum of DreamsUUURRGG
Sorcery (R)
You may exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card. Put that card into your hand and put the exiled cards on the bottom in a random order. Repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card
This way the spell won't kill you unless you have none of the card type you are looking for. I also updated the wording so that it matches those of cards like Abundance and Bloodbraid Elf.
So what ever happens the card is very very dangerous to be broken and so the protection with the possibility to deck yourself is a good thing, its flavour is big:
You call power, and it will kill you and explode your mind if you can't manage to controll it.
Blue is about searching cards with a Long-Term Plans, just take the card.
Red is about "one-shot blow out" and random tutoring (ala Wild Research, Gamble, chaos itself).
Green tutors for growth, which means abstract that the card will fuel your brain with knowledge to its maximum, and that can give you a deadly headache.
Just as a extra hint:
Ofcourse you "think" its dangerous to deck yourself, but nobody says you have to build a deck that is lickly to die with it, just run enough targets to search for, or play it with a bigger library to be more save (ala EDH with 300 cards battle of the Wits plan).
And ofcourse you can run some cards to get exiled cards back, even in color with "Research" and friends.
The card offers an insane amount of fueling power, its your job to find a way to "absorb" all of it.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Considering their mythic rarity, and their associated monetary cost, we can't assume that there will be one in every deck that wants to run this, and making a card that will kill you if you don't run at least one is a little, well, bad.
How about something like:
Ultimatum of Dreams UUURRGG
Sorcery
For each card type, you may reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card of that type, then put that card into your hand. Exile all other cards revealed this way.
Also, EDH decks are exactly 100 cards (99 if you don't count your general.) Just sayin'.
Ruinous Ultimatum WWWBBRR
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can’t be regenerated. For each creature destroyed this way, Ruinous Ultimatum deals 2 damage to target player and you gain 2 life.
Crescendo Ultimatum UUURRGG
Sorcery
Tap all permanents, then untap all permanents you control.
Immortal Ultimatum BBBGGWW
Sorcery
Each player removes all permanent cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all permanents he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.
Dazzling Ultimatum RRRWWUU
Sorcery
Exile all permanents you own, then take three extra turns after this one. At the beginning of target opponent’s next upkeep, return all exiled permanent cards you own to the battlefield.
Only seconds after Shikon’s arrival, an entire plane changed forever.
Subversive Ultimatum GGGUUBB
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for five cards and remove them from the game. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards removed this way on top of their owners’ library in any order.
Well the thing is that it wants you to play all types like Battle of the Wits wants you to play a big library.
If you don't do what the card wants, well, the card is not for your deck.
But as it has a point it could be possible to simply make it:
Ultimatum of Dreams :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery (R)
Exile cards from the top of your library until you exile an creature card, put it in your hand. You may repeat this process for land, artifact, enchantment, instant, sorcery and planeswalker card.
But it loses the factor of its flavour point.
This way you can say "I have enough i won't eat more knowledge" , but the flavour really is about getting the full power of knowledge till your head my explode.
So ofcourse its possible, but the card works better if you need to find your information , and its not hard to do so, especially as Planeswalkers arent really "bad" and you might play at least a bunch any way, especially if you run this card.
And you don't need to play them as i said, just have an option to fuel your library after you decked yourself, theirs plenty of options doing this, counting "Research", "Mirror of Fate" , "Beacons" and a lot more, so be a little inspired, not every card has to work without any need of "ideas".
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can’t be regenerated. For each creature destroyed this way, Ruinous Ultimatum deals 2 damage to target player and you gain 2 life.
This design goes along Titanic Ultimatum, as it uses an existing card and adds some "kicker" to it. In this case Wrath of God / Damnation , the bonus of life gain is kinda meaningless, but the damage you deal is really kinda overpowered, as it will win a game more than not.
I mean ofcourse you ramp into this card fast, kill everything and punsh in for a 20 damage burn at your opponent, thats kinda silly.
The life gain is an extra, not important, but the damage is too much really.
Even with "1" instead of "2" damage you can easy pull a game you lose, even more than Cruel Ultimatum (which gives a great card advantage, but its limited to 5 life), so against any beatdown you can say they have at least 3 creatures, if not more, and if you run "this" card you will abuse it and put a giant amount of tokens in play, for simply everyone just to kick out your game winner.
Overall, possible but it somehow feels boring as i would run pretty much any "wrath" as i need it faster than 7 mana (no matter how cool they are, i am dead if i can't kill creatures early on).
Crescendo Ultimatum :symu::symu::symu::symr::symr::symg::symg:
Sorcery
Tap all permanents, then untap all permanents you control.
Well i really don't enjoy this, it feels so random and bad, in no way like a "Ultimatum" wants to feel.
Immortal Ultimatum :symb::symb::symb::symg::symg::symw::symw:
Sorcery
Each player removes all permanent cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all permanents he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.
More or less similiar as it "mass" reanimats, but it seems really game winning in every case.
I mean in absolut worst you will "Obliterate" everything , and as its best you one side Obliterate everything and win the game, a singel fattie is enough in that case , not even a lot.
And as i feel this effect should be "better" if you use more reanimation, and not totally Obliterate anything you play against, its really enough to get just the reanimation, as all 3 colors share a theme to "reanimate" dead things, but killing anything doing that is just overkill.
Dazzling Ultimatum :symr::symr::symr::symw::symw::symu::symu:
Sorcery
Exile all permanents you own, then take three extra turns after this one. At the beginning of target opponent’s next upkeep, return all exiled permanent cards you own to the battlefield.
Only seconds after Shikon’s arrival, an entire plane changed forever.
Well, blue has the "big" part of extra turns, red just gets the "one-shot all in" in Final Fortune , but white doesnt use it. This card is not bad, as the effect is nice, but i can't feel the Ultimatum Multicolor part of this one.
I would enjoy it as a "blue" card , only blue, feels flavourwise like what Urza used to do against Phyrexia, putting themself in a different time so they have more time to think the opponents out (or was it different ?).
However you hopefully get what i mean.
Subversive Ultimatum :symg::symg::symg::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for five cards and exile them. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards exiled this way on top of their owners’ library in any order.
Well here its not bad, but i feel this card more "blue/black" as it really goes to "extract" something and give things to you or lock a player with 5 land draws.
While the idea is good i think searching for "5" cards is really way too much, as you will go for "Time Warp , Time Warp, Time Warp, Time Warp" and give your opponents 5 lands, i can't see a fun in that other than its totally annoying, especially as it takes so freaking long in Multiplayer to tutor 4+ librarys for 5 cards (at least 5minutes thats annoying ****).
Might be a great effect reduced to just a singel card, as thats allready fair:
Subversive Act :symg::symu::symb:
Sorcery
Search all libraries and graveyards for a card and exile them. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards exiled this way on top of their owners library.
This could work a lot better, as its a small tutor for you, a "extract" and will help a lot more decks without the annoying "Time Warp" chains.
But it has the problem too that it takes so much time to play it in multiplayer, might be enough to just focus on graveyards and "top 5 cards" of each library or something:
Subversive Act :symg::symu::symb:
Sorcery
Search all graveyards and top five cards of each library for a card and exile them. Then each player shuffles his or her library. Then put any number of cards exiled this way on top of their owners library.
This is faster to execute, ofcourse less powerfull, might even be an idea that you can put the 5 cards back in any order or something.
A lot possible tweaks here, but the idea is good, just not for an Ultimatum and 5 cards.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Yes, planeswalkers are great. Yes, lots of decks want them. No, you shouldn't make a tutor that kills you unless you run them. The other, more common (as in more of them, not rarity) card types? Sure. Planeswalkers? No. At least not until they're more abundant.
Removing the planeswalker type would be okay. You still get the blowout "oh no I learned too much and now my head imploded!" turn, but it doesn't make its non-lethality dependant on a few (mythic) rare, incredibly saught after cards.
As for Battle of Wits, a big library is pretty easy to do, if that's your thing. It can be made up of cards from all sorts of rarities, it doesn't say "you must either spend 6+ dollars on a card or be incredibly lucky and crack one or I will kill you."
Its your job to give a set with this cards a way out, just make a mechanic that cares for the "exile" zone.
Same examples:
Knight of the Void WW
Creature - Spirit, Knight
You may cast ~ only from the exile.
First Strike
Whenever a creature damaged by ~ is put into a graveyard from the battlfield, exile it.
2/2
Blast of the Void R
Instant
You may cast ~ only from the exile.
~ deals 2 damage to target creature.
Flashback 7R
Wave of Eternity 3U
Sorcery
Shuffle all exiled cards into their owner's libraries.
You see you can build more cards if you feel their are not enough, Time Spiral started a good job as it had Suspend using the Exile zone and cards that interact with it.
You might ask yourself how do you play the cards if they are "stuck" in your hand ?
Be sure that a set with this idea would have some "Pitch" spells, use Delve , use more carddraw/discard , maybe even has something along Threshold and Madness to fuel the wheel of mechanics around every possible zone in the game.
Everything works, just build the set around to accomplish it.
But even right now theirs not much that prevents you.
You don't die if you can survive with cards if you mill yourself.
This doesnt mean you need wacky cards, theirs enough to put cards from your graveyard in your library, skip your draw (ala Words of War etc.) , or you keep you alive via shuffling exiled cards back, its your job to find interactions , or you simply do what the card wants you to do, building a deck with every card type.
Little prevents you from making some "lesser" planeswalkers or some spells that interact with them more (like the ideas of spells that use loyality counters for discount, or get a "kicker" if you have the planeswalker in play). Here again, its your job to make the cards if you feel they don't exist.
Yes it would, but its actual the only type that is a kind of "drawback" and a card that tutors for 7 cards really should have some kind of drawback, and that drawback is something to live with isnt it?
Yes right now (and as it seems in near future) Planeswalkers will stay Mythic, but i think it would be a good idea to make more "VS" decks, so the planeswalkers are a lot easier to access , WotC just can't get ideas to make some quick money like that (but they will for sure in future).
Well a "good" Battle of the Wits deck really forces you to play a very clear deck, a lot of tutors and such, and the card just says you need a card of each type, for the card itself it doesnt matter how much they cost in 2nd market, and i doubt planeswalker are "all" expensive (just take Jace, Chandra or such, they cost not much).
However, it might make clear that its the job of the designer to make "singel" cards, but more important focus on the set to support your cards in a big view, and such cards especially show it.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
But, that's just my view of it anyway. I'd like to know if anyone else has a justification for that particular ultimatum; if not, it's probably all right to be a little bit loose with their bizarro wedge versions also, though not too much.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
- Blue gets card draw , small part about "for free" cards in form of Minds Dessire and such.
- Black is about gaining power, card draw, not that crazy about this play for free, but its for sure ok as it is, so power through knowledge, especially as your opponent is making the choice of "damnation" in the card.
- White has a little interaction with the "exile" zone, its for sure not about card draw, but you can imply a "fairness" that your opponent makes the choice to group the cards. In abstract you can feel like a "Astral Slide" , just that you actual pay mana to get the cards out of the Exile in play.
I won't say its a good Ultimatum, but in the end you can explain a bunch of it, even if i don't like it as an Ultimatum and i don't like the flavour of it, especially as it really doesnt reflect Esper much (just a little, as Espers have a little theme of "mind controll" story wise turning a bunch of beasts from naya on their side and the like, or manipulating others, and especially are the "smart" shard , and its a big part of Fact or Fiction, and Choice of Damnation, but thats all "stretched" and not really good executed. Even WotC sucks from time to time, like everyone).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The drawback is it costs 7 coloured mana, you don't choose what you tutor for and it'll likely exile half your deck. It will also tutor for 6 cards, if you remove Planeswalker.
Jace goes for 6 tix on MtGO, which is why I said 6+. That may not seem like much to some, but for some casual players, it is far too much to spend on a single card, and seeing as this card is aimed at casual players, it's probably not a good idea to put a "run Planeswalkers (or some jank rares from a few years ago) or die!" clause on it.
Also, I really like Crescendo Ultimatum. It might be better as "Tap all permanents. Take an extra turn after this one."
Dazzling Ultimatum seems a little underwhelming. 3 turns is nice, but it's 3 turns starting from scratch, against an opponent with a quite probably well-developed board position. Maybe if you had some splashy ETB effects, but then there's not much point to all the extra turns.
Subversive Ultimatum isn't green at all, and would be horribly painful to play against. Quite possibly overpowered.
I would never give a word to something will "not" be, but anything is possible. And its not said that every card is made for the set its in itself, theirs even Cross-Block interactions of cards, that really make a card shine, just take Mirror of Fate, in M10 alone it does really "nothing" as the only card that exiles cards is Haunting Echoes, but who knows if we get a "exile" zone theme for any of the upcomming sets in the future.
Costing 7 mana is not considered a "drawback" , if you want to mana ramp with mana rituals you are free to do so, ofcourse its not a card some beatdown plays, its a card for players that win with it when cast, and thats pretty much any controll player (drawing in Garruck, Time Warp, Counterspell, mana rituals, you really think you will lose after that? cmon).
Well if you design for the 2nd market you do something wrong.
Sometimes you make cards that casual players can't enjoy, just take Baneslayer Angel, how many "Budget" player can buy 4 of that ? This doesnt mean its a bad card, designing cards should never be about 2nd market at all, otherwise Fetchlands should be "uncommon" and never rare (as they are auto include in pretty much "any" deck).
And ofcourse you don't run "Leveler" and other cards if you can't fight against the drawback.
How boring would magic be if every card could be played without any drawback you have to tinker around with ?
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
It's not about how many casual players can buy a card, it's about what a players reaction will be if they get lucky and crack it from a booster. Mr. Newbie cracks a Baneslayer: "Awesome! It's an angel and can kill dragons!" The same Mr. Newbie cracks an Ultimatum of Dreams: "Awesome! It can get me lots of cards! Wait, Planeswalker? I don't even own any so it kills me. Ew."
This card is rather blatantly geared towards the casual "Timmy" player, and it won't go down a hit if it kills them dead upon use.
Removing it's ability to search Planeswalkers nerfs it enough that it probably doesn't need the added drawback of obliterating your library. You say it's overpowered in ramp decks, but in all likelihood you are going to end up with a Kodama's Reach, Overgrowth, Mind Stone, Dreamscape Artist and a few other things. And honestly, if you can make it to UUURRGG you probably deserve to have a splashy next turn. It doesn't generate any more card advantage than a Cruel Ultimatum.
If i would open Ultimatum of Dreams in a Booster, i would go and build a deck that utilizes every card type, and be happy about it.
Its a card that is made for "deck building" not being instantly overpowered no matter in what deck you run it (that can actual cast it, which is flashy enough).
The pure ability to gain +7 cards is huge, and like i said if you resolve it you win, how you accomplish it is actual the fun to build a deck with it, more or less like it is with Warped World (which forces you to build decks with a lot permanents and avoid "spells" as much as possible).
So in the end you can sum the ideas of the card up to:
- It is a Ultimatum with a flashy manacost.
- It cares for "play all card types" , which is like a Theme in a deck.
- Its flavour will fuel your mind , if you are "smart" enough to have an idea of every kind, you survive it, otherwise it will shatter your library (aka your long term mind) and you have to keep you alive with what you currently have in your hand / graveyard and battlefield.
- It will fuel your hand with 7 cards , and 7 is actual the number of your hand size, so you keep the cards even after the turn ends, which is a nice number.
Its like the "super" version of Guided Passage, a card that made a lot of peops happy building decks with it, and the limitation of it turns out to be not good enough (as you get the worst of your cards from your deck, if that is still "good" you have a gain).
Skipping planeswalker because they are 2nd market expensive, or a rare card type (or mythic card type) is a thing that is for sure not "wrong" , but for my taste it takes a big part of the cards aspects that make it what it is.
So i would keep it as an "essential" part of it.
and theirs even a nice flavour reason for it:
- Your mind can't imagine a "planeswalker" and in the try to do so, your head will explode.
See it like an question you can't answer, a "Sphinx" might go insane if it can't answer a question (as Sphinx is flavourwise about making questions).
*Extra Deck section.
Well if you end with a hand with Kodamas's Reach, Overgrowth, Mind Stone and "Dreamscape Artist" you actual pretty much build a really really bad deck with very bad card choices.
Just run "mana rituals" to boost into this card, ofcourse you will find "sorcery" a copy of this card , so play a singel creature, or mana ritual creatures you want to go into, or you use Mirror of Fate as the only Artifact, or "Research" as the only Instant, take something like Tezzeret or Garruck as your singel Planeswalker , what you finally "combo" with is really up to you, and how to "abuse" the effect is not an easy task for older formats.
But i am sure that some combinations of cards give insane results that win the game if you play this card.
And to be save against that, the "exile" part gives a randomness that you might fizzly doing the tutoring for all 7 cards.
Just for your amusing:
I run "rareBox" a casual format were you play only rares and mythics in a "deck" with a giant size (currently like 400 cards) and no lands at all (well ofcourse some are good, but not because they make mana, taking Volraths Stronghold, Academy Ruins, Karakas, Vesuva and such).
You can play every card as a "land" and make mana equal to the manacost of the card (cutting the colorless of cards with colored mana in the cost, artifacts with only colorless manacost produce the colorless mana).
The format is really bonkers, and ofcourse the ultimatum cards are really awesom "lands" and here even this Ultimatum shines.
Anything for everyone.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
However at seven mana, I think it could get a slight boost in wording. I would exile all the cards at once, then allow you to choose from among all of those cards.
Several different options here for the first and second part of the ability. I think A+E with four cards might work well.
So you can essentially tutor for what you want/need. If you get lucky and hit it in the top couple of cards, you don't lose that much. If you don't find it right away, you can keep digging deeper until you do, but you permanently lose more cards from your library.
This is nice, but I think it should be limited to your own graveyard or it should be a limited number of creatures (even if that limited number is five or six).
Double your creatures' power, and reduce all other creatures' power to 0? Even at seven mana, that seems a little lopsided. Going this route, it could just be a simpler fixed number:
Could this fit for UUURRGG? The blue-red-green color combination seems like it would revolve around boosting/shrinking/shapeshifting creatures and casting/copying/changing spells.
That definitely feels BR or even WB, but oddly it doesn't feel WBR ... if that makes any sense. For WBR, I think it should gain a little more control in its vindictive nature. Specifically, I am thinking something like this:
...That last sentence might push it a little over the top, but meh.
Black has frequently been stuck with the nonblack restriction. In Planar Chaos and a few other times, white had a nonwhite restriction. In Ravnica, the red-white Boros had radiance. I think it would be appropriate for white-black-red to get color selective sweeps.
There is no reason to punish your teammates.
This is strong, but a little underwhelming for seven mana. Could this be combined with a slightly smaller version of theOnlyOne's GUB ability that I posited to change to URG?
Or does that push it too far?
Living Death for all permanents would look good if not for the way that it destroys all of your opponents' lands and leaves you presumably with a bunch of fetch lands and/or lands that you have otherwise sacrificed like Geothermal Crevice.
Massive Ghostway, draw three, then put all permanent cards exiled with Arc-Slogger onto the field under your control? That last part is pretty questionable, but the rest might be a little under powered.
Massive Plow Under is an interesting idea, but it is either horribly overpowered or the wording is horribly ambiguous. Can I search each players' library for five cards and search his or her graveyard for an additional five cards? Or can I only search for five cards total per player? Or is it five cards total, period? I think that last would be really hard to word so that it is easily understood.
A set number per player, then a set number going back on top of that player's library would be the simplest.
GAYMER
XXBRG ~~ Kresh Necrophilia ~
WXBXG ~~ Doran Defense ~~~~~
I didn't read through the entirety of what was posted here, but from what I can see, there's just been a lot of talk about what would make for good wedge ultimatums. Suggestions about your cards have been made, stuff that other people have already thought up has been brought up, and suggestions on how to improve all of the above have been made as well. From what I read, the general sentiment is that you shouldn't adhere too tightly to the design of the wedge Elder Dragons, but rather focus on what all of the colors do.
That said, although this discussion is healthy, maybe we should try to bring it back to the original topic a little bit. Are there any changes that you've thought of, blackpoe, now that everyone has given you there two cents (or twenty cents, as the case may be)?