People talking about this idea on the WOTC forums got me thinking, particularly when the point of "Rupture Spire effectively has one" was made. So, naturally, I did just that; the key idea is what the reminder text says, which is basically my answer to how it would be done.
Pool of Sludge
B
Land (Pay B to play Pool of Sludge. It isn't a spell.)
T: Add B to your mana pool.
T: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Grand Library
1UU
Land (Pay 1UU to play Grand Library. It isn't a spell.)
T: Add U to your mana pool.
T: Draw a card.
You can have cost for something that doesn't use the stack. Even a cost in mana. The Signets all do. I wanted to let you know that.
But lands cannot have a mana cost. Everything in the rules about them contradicts such an affair.
Lands with mana costs are functionally mana artifacts. The only difference it makes is to Black, who couldn't destroy the latter, and Blue, whose "nonland permanent" effects couldn't touch them, and who can't counter them. Either way, putting good abilities on lands still is and always will be dangerous stuff. You want a mana cost, you put it in the text like Rupture Spire.
/thread
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Grand Library
Land
When Grand Library comes into play pay 1UU or sacrifice it.
Grand Library comes into play tapped. T: Add U to your mana pool. U, T: Draw a card.
Actually you can give lands manacost, it is allready done, but not in the way like a spell would have them.
Example would be simpel things like:
Example Land
Land - Example Type
As ~ would come into play from your hand pay 2 or return ~ to its owners hand instead. T: Add 3 to your manapool.
Something like that, you can play it, but it will go back to your hand instantly, so you actually just wasted your land drop, so it actually really says that it costs 2 colorless mana.
The use of this design could be that you dont want them to be Artifacts, maybe your set focus on lands, so they are the replacement for the artifacts and more important you can give this "special" lands more abilities that work with abilities in your set, so they could even have comes into play effects which is pretty strong if your Set has Moonfolk like effects that requiere you to bounce your own lands, maybe even make the Basic Land Types and have them work together with other mechanics that return them, they could even be a Domain in one land, the possibilities are good and design is good if your set focus on it.
Some more examples:
Another Example Land
Land
As ~ would come into play, sacrifice two creatures or return ~ to its owners hand instead. T: Add BBB to your manapool.
Shocking Land
Land
As ~ would come into play, pay 2R or return ~ to its owners hand.
When ~ comes into play it deals 1 damage to each creature. T: Add R to your manapool.
Cantrip Land
Land
As ~ would come into play, pay U or return ~ to its owners hand.
When ~ comes into play draw a card. T: Add 1 to your manapool.
Domain Land
Land - Forest, Mountain, Swamp, Island, Plains
As ~ would come into play, reveal a white, blue, black, red and green card in your hand, or return ~ to its owners hand.
*For sure the strongest Domain land you will get, but at the same time you really need 5 cards to get it into play.
Tempel of the Falser God
Legendary Land
Play ~ only if you control five or more lands. T: Add WUBRG to your manapool.
Another solutions if you want a normal land with a manacost is the use of Morph, Suspend or any other ability that lets you play the card for a cost.
Example
Suspended Land
Land
Suspend 2 - 1 T: Add 1 to your manapool. T: Remove up to two time counters from a suspended card.
Morphing Land
Land
Morph - Return a land you control to its owners hand T: Add 1 to your manapool, or 2 mana that can only be used to play cards Morph.
Exhume Land
Tribal Land - Zombie
Exhume - Discard two swamps T: Add B to your manapool. T, Sacrifice ~: Add BB to your manapool.
*Strong mana ritual as you can play it, add 2 black, exhume it and get an extra 2 black, however it costs you 3 lands in your hand that you can combo out.
So you have plenty of ways to enforce a "cost" to a land, but giving them manacosts is wacky on them as you can allways play lands for free from your hand.
Agreeing with what others said - just do the mana cost a la rupture spire.
As for your lands, both seem too strong. Pool of sludge is a fairly strong weenie-stopper that can come down really early and wreck things. If you are going to keep a "mana cost" of just B on it, then add an activation cost to the -1/-1 ability.
Same goes for grand library. It just seems so much better than Scepter of Insight (or Archivist) at this point.
Unlike the "play a spell" action, the "put a land in play" game action at no point asks for any cost to be paid. It would simply ignore any symbols printed in the upper-right of the card. This is why we can play Plains but not Evermind.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Unlike the "play a spell" action, the "put a land in play" game action at no point asks for any cost to be paid. It would simply ignore any symbols printed in the upper-right of the card. This is why we can play Plains but not Evermind.
And yet they also changed the rules for null mana costs; they could conceivably add rules saying "Lands with mana cost must have that cost paid as you play them" etc. Mana abilities don't use the stack anyway, so there's arguably no problem with the concept.
Should it be done strictly as a "mana cost"? Probably not, and I agree. But this is the "think pot" forum, so it's safe to indulge ourselves from time to time, ne? On the other hand, it can free up a line from the text box in the card (depends on name) and that's always a bonus. Prime real estate, etc.
This affects playing the land from hand, from the graveyard with Crucible of Worlds, or from the top of the library with Future Sight. But it does not affect putting the land directly into play like with effects like Sakura-Tribe Scout.
Old Growth Wood
Land
You can't play CARDNAME unless you pay G. T: Add G to your mana pool. G,T: Target creature gets +1/+1 and gains shroud until end of turn.
Harsh Terrain
Land
You can't play CARDNAME unless you sacrifice a permanent. T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Assuming this works, it would solve SO many problems. Nice find, silver.
I tried this once (though for something like Basalt Monolith, not playing a land), and apparently it doesn't. For the life of me, though, I can't remember why not.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Grand Library
Land 1UU: Put this card from your hand into play
Now I realize that it lets you also play it as your normal land for the turn, so the cards you've designed would have to be nerfed a bit, but it seems like a workable option. Let's you play more than one land a turn...could be cool in a land-themed block. This way it works as an activated ability. Just a thought.
I suspected as much, or it already would have been done... but I wonder why?
Okay, I think I've figured it out. "Costs to attack" are specifically defined and allowed for in the rules for attacking (308.2d-g). Ditto for "costs to block". But there's no such rules for a "cost to play a land", or "cost to untap a permanent", so what the phrase "can't X unless Y" amounts to is a static ability that calls for a one-shot action Y without setting the time for Y to be performed. The game doesn't know when you're supposed to pay.
"You can't play ~ unless you control five lands" should work, though. If it doesn't, I really have no idea what's going on.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Grand Library
Land 1UU: Put this card from your hand into play
Now I realize that it lets you also play it as your normal land for the turn, so the cards you've designed would have to be nerfed a bit, but it seems like a workable option. Let's you play more than one land a turn...could be cool in a land-themed block. This way it works as an activated ability. Just a thought.
I like that idea, but then the lands would have to be nerfed too much, and you would end up never wanting to pay the cost to play them. I think it could only be implemented on a card like this:
Sculptor’s Garden
Land
Tap: Add to your mana pool.
:2mana:: Put Sculptor’s Garden into play. Play this ability only if Sculptor’s Garden is in your hand and only during your turn.
so it can give you a speed boost if you play it the same turn you play a land, but is otherwise just a colorless land.
I tried this once (though for something like Basalt Monolith, not playing a land), and apparently it doesn't. For the life of me, though, I can't remember why not.
I don't see why it couldn't work without some slight rules adjustments. However, for a Basalt Monolith-like untap cost ("You can't untap CARDNAME unless you pay 3"), I think you would be forced to use land that is already untapped before your untap step begins. Everything untaps in the untap step at the same exact time, so any costs to untap (if the rules are properly adjusted) would probably have to be paid before any tapped permanents are untapped. You would not be able to untap three lands, then tap them to pay the cost to untap the Monolith. You would instead tap three untapped lands, then untap the Monolith and those three lands at the same time. This is slightly awkward and a little counter intuitive.
Grand Library
Land 1UU: Put this card from your hand into play
Now I realize that it lets you also play it as your normal land for the turn, so the cards you've designed would have to be nerfed a bit, but it seems like a workable option. Let's you play more than one land a turn...could be cool in a land-themed block. This way it works as an activated ability. Just a thought.
Another from the vault design. I think I came up with this, but I might have tweaked something someone else posted or just stolen it entirely. :shrugs:
Sheltered Shoreline
Land 2: Put CARDNAME from your hand into play tapped with a charge counter on it. T: Add 1 to your mana pool. If CARDNAME has a charge counter on it, instead add W or U to your mana pool.
Withdrawn Wetlands U or B; Removed Reaches B or R; Covered Coppice R or G; Protected Prairie G or W.
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Pool of Sludge
B
Land
(Pay B to play Pool of Sludge. It isn't a spell.)
T: Add B to your mana pool.
T: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Grand Library
1UU
Land
(Pay 1UU to play Grand Library. It isn't a spell.)
T: Add U to your mana pool.
T: Draw a card.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
But lands cannot have a mana cost. Everything in the rules about them contradicts such an affair.
Lands with mana costs are functionally mana artifacts. The only difference it makes is to Black, who couldn't destroy the latter, and Blue, whose "nonland permanent" effects couldn't touch them, and who can't counter them. Either way, putting good abilities on lands still is and always will be dangerous stuff. You want a mana cost, you put it in the text like Rupture Spire.
/thread
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
IE
Grand Library
Land
When Grand Library comes into play pay 1UU or sacrifice it.
Grand Library comes into play tapped.
T: Add U to your mana pool.
U, T: Draw a card.
Example would be simpel things like:
Example Land
Land - Example Type
As ~ would come into play from your hand pay 2 or return ~ to its owners hand instead.
T: Add 3 to your manapool.
Something like that, you can play it, but it will go back to your hand instantly, so you actually just wasted your land drop, so it actually really says that it costs 2 colorless mana.
The use of this design could be that you dont want them to be Artifacts, maybe your set focus on lands, so they are the replacement for the artifacts and more important you can give this "special" lands more abilities that work with abilities in your set, so they could even have comes into play effects which is pretty strong if your Set has Moonfolk like effects that requiere you to bounce your own lands, maybe even make the Basic Land Types and have them work together with other mechanics that return them, they could even be a Domain in one land, the possibilities are good and design is good if your set focus on it.
Some more examples:
Another Example Land
Land
As ~ would come into play, sacrifice two creatures or return ~ to its owners hand instead.
T: Add BBB to your manapool.
Shocking Land
Land
As ~ would come into play, pay 2R or return ~ to its owners hand.
When ~ comes into play it deals 1 damage to each creature.
T: Add R to your manapool.
Cantrip Land
Land
As ~ would come into play, pay U or return ~ to its owners hand.
When ~ comes into play draw a card.
T: Add 1 to your manapool.
Domain Land
Land - Forest, Mountain, Swamp, Island, Plains
As ~ would come into play, reveal a white, blue, black, red and green card in your hand, or return ~ to its owners hand.
*For sure the strongest Domain land you will get, but at the same time you really need 5 cards to get it into play.
Tempel of the Falser God
Legendary Land
Play ~ only if you control five or more lands.
T: Add WUBRG to your manapool.
Another solutions if you want a normal land with a manacost is the use of Morph, Suspend or any other ability that lets you play the card for a cost.
Example
Suspended Land
Land
Suspend 2 - 1
T: Add 1 to your manapool.
T: Remove up to two time counters from a suspended card.
Morphing Land
Land
Morph - Return a land you control to its owners hand
T: Add 1 to your manapool, or 2 mana that can only be used to play cards Morph.
Exhume Land
Tribal Land - Zombie
Exhume - Discard two swamps
T: Add B to your manapool.
T, Sacrifice ~: Add BB to your manapool.
*Strong mana ritual as you can play it, add 2 black, exhume it and get an extra 2 black, however it costs you 3 lands in your hand that you can combo out.
So you have plenty of ways to enforce a "cost" to a land, but giving them manacosts is wacky on them as you can allways play lands for free from your hand.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
As for your lands, both seem too strong. Pool of sludge is a fairly strong weenie-stopper that can come down really early and wreck things. If you are going to keep a "mana cost" of just B on it, then add an activation cost to the -1/-1 ability.
Same goes for grand library. It just seems so much better than Scepter of Insight (or Archivist) at this point.
Unlike the "play a spell" action, the "put a land in play" game action at no point asks for any cost to be paid. It would simply ignore any symbols printed in the upper-right of the card. This is why we can play Plains but not Evermind.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Should it be done strictly as a "mana cost"? Probably not, and I agree. But this is the "think pot" forum, so it's safe to indulge ourselves from time to time, ne? On the other hand, it can free up a line from the text box in the card (depends on name) and that's always a bonus. Prime real estate, etc.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
This affects playing the land from hand, from the graveyard with Crucible of Worlds, or from the top of the library with Future Sight. But it does not affect putting the land directly into play like with effects like Sakura-Tribe Scout.
I tried this once (though for something like Basalt Monolith, not playing a land), and apparently it doesn't. For the life of me, though, I can't remember why not.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Grand Library
Land
1UU: Put this card from your hand into play
Now I realize that it lets you also play it as your normal land for the turn, so the cards you've designed would have to be nerfed a bit, but it seems like a workable option. Let's you play more than one land a turn...could be cool in a land-themed block. This way it works as an activated ability. Just a thought.
Okay, I think I've figured it out. "Costs to attack" are specifically defined and allowed for in the rules for attacking (308.2d-g). Ditto for "costs to block". But there's no such rules for a "cost to play a land", or "cost to untap a permanent", so what the phrase "can't X unless Y" amounts to is a static ability that calls for a one-shot action Y without setting the time for Y to be performed. The game doesn't know when you're supposed to pay.
"You can't play ~ unless you control five lands" should work, though. If it doesn't, I really have no idea what's going on.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I like that idea, but then the lands would have to be nerfed too much, and you would end up never wanting to pay the cost to play them. I think it could only be implemented on a card like this:
Sculptor’s Garden
Land
Tap: Add to your mana pool.
:2mana:: Put Sculptor’s Garden into play. Play this ability only if Sculptor’s Garden is in your hand and only during your turn.
so it can give you a speed boost if you play it the same turn you play a land, but is otherwise just a colorless land.
I don't see why it couldn't work without some slight rules adjustments. However, for a Basalt Monolith-like untap cost ("You can't untap CARDNAME unless you pay 3"), I think you would be forced to use land that is already untapped before your untap step begins. Everything untaps in the untap step at the same exact time, so any costs to untap (if the rules are properly adjusted) would probably have to be paid before any tapped permanents are untapped. You would not be able to untap three lands, then tap them to pay the cost to untap the Monolith. You would instead tap three untapped lands, then untap the Monolith and those three lands at the same time. This is slightly awkward and a little counter intuitive.
Another from the vault design. I think I came up with this, but I might have tweaked something someone else posted or just stolen it entirely. :shrugs:
Sheltered Shoreline
Land
2: Put CARDNAME from your hand into play tapped with a charge counter on it.
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. If CARDNAME has a charge counter on it, instead add W or U to your mana pool.
Withdrawn Wetlands U or B; Removed Reaches B or R; Covered Coppice R or G; Protected Prairie G or W.