I was brushing up on Theros draft yesterday, and I found an article, written post-spoiler but pre-release, about limited decks that would be powerful in Theros. Among the ones it listed were Nemesis of Mortal. The theory was that you use Commune with the Gods to find a Nemesis (and reduce its cost), likely running either red or black as a second color. Red lets you use Satyr Hedonist to power out a Nemesis, and black gives you extra incentive to fill your graveyard with creatures like Nighthowler or March of the Returned. The argument was threefold:
1) A deck built around Nemesis is a green deck full of creatures, and is thus should be a pretty strong deck even when the Nemesis itself fails.
2)You can get better use out of the Hedonist, Commune, and March than most other players, and should therefore be able to get a few copies of each
3)Voyage's End is the only card in Theros that can stop a Nemesis for less than six mana.
That third point I find the most dubious, but I'm not entirely sure it's wrong. What say the forums? Can Nemesis of Mortals carry a deck? If there's one in your first pack, would you consider taking it and trying to force such an archetype? What CAN you answer a vanilla 10/10 with in this format?
And while there's not many sub-6 mana solutions lower than Rare, it's not like 6 mana is all that hard to get to. You do see getting BlueGodsmacked a lot.
Also, unlike Asp, he doesn't stop flyers, so WU Heroic in particular will probably be able to race you.
It's a fearsome beast if you can land it, to be sure, but I don't honestly think it's worth trying to force a build around it. Nessian Asp is usually just as cheap, and it's easier to splash, and it has reach, and it's common, and it's just all-around easier to use.
It's strong. It's a relatively cheap, huge creature even without trying to force anything. GB is also a pretty good combination, as long as you get enough flying defense and removal. Don't take it over Voyaging Satyr or Nessian Asp or good removal, but it's worth taking over most other green things. If you get two, or one and a March of the Returned, then it's worth going all in on the graveyard themed stuff.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
the card is very good. I would probably take it over almost any green common or uncommon.
Let's just clarify what "almost" means... I don't think you should take it over these:
Voyaging Satyr
Nessian Asp
Leafcrown Dryad
Nylea's Emissary
Also, depending on what your draft looks like, Time to Feed might be of greater import.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
I've been pretty impressed with it so far. In the games where he comes down, I generally win. I'd say it's absolutely worth playing a Commune with the Gods or two if you have the nemesis, they help you find him and cast him for cheap.
I like him best in GU actually. Blue has several ways to grant him some evasion, so you have to worry about deathtouch and chumpers less.
Haven't tried GB at all yet, and any time you end up playing March of the Returned you probably made a mistake somewhere.
It's just outclassed in every way by nessian asp. Sure, if you are splashing green and don't get any asps then I would draft it, but otherwise you should be taking other green commons over it.
One of the things which makes Nemesis hard to evaluate is that is gets better the better your deck is.
Decks in Theros like cheap cards. If you've got creature cards in your graveyard that aren't just dead chump blockers it's because your deck was interacting in the early game, which is good. Then Nemesis comes down and things get even better.
But if your deck's curve is too high then Nemesis won't help with that because you won't have any creatures in the graveyard and so it won't come down early.
I do agree with the people saying they take Asp over it, though. Stopping flyers is more important than an extra point of power and both will win the game at about the same rate if they go Monstrous.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
It's just outclassed in every way by nessian asp. Sure, if you are splashing green and don't get any asps then I would draft it, but otherwise you should be taking other green commons over it.
Yeah a lot of cards are outclassed by nessian asp, that card is good. I'd take it pretty much exactly where Hardened said he would:
Sedge Scorpion and Baleful Eidolon. At common, and cheap, these alone make that strategy very risky. I've bricked many a G/x fatty deck with cheap deathtouch dudes.
And again, as everyone else said, I would take the Asp over it in almost all cases.
and any time you end up playing March of the Returned you probably made a mistake somewhere.
Or you picked up an Erebos' Emissary.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My helpy helpdesk of helpfulness.
My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Let's just clarify what "almost" means... I don't think you should take it over these:
Voyaging Satyr
Nessian Asp
Leafcrown Dryad
Nylea's Emissary
Also, depending on what your draft looks like, Time to Feed might be of greater import.
I think I would take nemesis over leafcrown and possibly emissary depending on the deck. I would take asp and voyaging over it but I generally take those over almost anything.
1) A deck built around Nemesis is a green deck full of creatures, and is thus should be a pretty strong deck even when the Nemesis itself fails.
2)You can get better use out of the Hedonist, Commune, and March than most other players, and should therefore be able to get a few copies of each
3)Voyage's End is the only card in Theros that can stop a Nemesis for less than six mana.
That third point I find the most dubious, but I'm not entirely sure it's wrong. What say the forums? Can Nemesis of Mortals carry a deck? If there's one in your first pack, would you consider taking it and trying to force such an archetype? What CAN you answer a vanilla 10/10 with in this format?
And while there's not many sub-6 mana solutions lower than Rare, it's not like 6 mana is all that hard to get to. You do see getting BlueGodsmacked a lot.
Also, unlike Asp, he doesn't stop flyers, so WU Heroic in particular will probably be able to race you.
So yeah, I'd play it, and I'd draft it, but I wouldn't start picking Returned Centaur or Commune with the Gods any higher than usual just for Nemesis of Mortals. Maybe once I had a Nighthowler and a Pharika's Mender and a Whip of Erebos...
Probably not just one though.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Let's just clarify what "almost" means... I don't think you should take it over these:
Voyaging Satyr
Nessian Asp
Leafcrown Dryad
Nylea's Emissary
Also, depending on what your draft looks like, Time to Feed might be of greater import.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
I like him best in GU actually. Blue has several ways to grant him some evasion, so you have to worry about deathtouch and chumpers less.
Haven't tried GB at all yet, and any time you end up playing March of the Returned you probably made a mistake somewhere.
Decks in Theros like cheap cards. If you've got creature cards in your graveyard that aren't just dead chump blockers it's because your deck was interacting in the early game, which is good. Then Nemesis comes down and things get even better.
But if your deck's curve is too high then Nemesis won't help with that because you won't have any creatures in the graveyard and so it won't come down early.
I do agree with the people saying they take Asp over it, though. Stopping flyers is more important than an extra point of power and both will win the game at about the same rate if they go Monstrous.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Yeah a lot of cards are outclassed by nessian asp, that card is good. I'd take it pretty much exactly where Hardened said he would:
And again, as everyone else said, I would take the Asp over it in almost all cases.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Or you picked up an Erebos' Emissary.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
I learn new tech about this set every day.
I think I would take nemesis over leafcrown and possibly emissary depending on the deck. I would take asp and voyaging over it but I generally take those over almost anything.
*DCI Rules Advisor*