I was wondering if anyone might help me out. The RtR pre release was my first sealed and I wasn't too sure about my deck. So if anyone's interested, mind giving me some tips on what I could have maybe done differently and what I did right, so I'll know better for next time?
This is maybe the 3rd or 4th limited deck I've built. I usually do terribly, but this time I kept in mind the BREAD formula, and I think this deck is a lot better than what I usually put together, I ended up in 10th place with 3-2.
Thanks a lot for the input, I'm still pretty new at deck building and am more than happy to receive tips / feedback.
I would think you'd do better by playing your 3 Splatter Thug and splash green. If you play them post Corspejack Menace it would be so good. Chromatic Lantern is also nice. And -1 Drainpipe Vermin thats the first thing I saw.
Not a bad build on the whole. You got a bad beat opening 2x Search the City, which is mega-unplayable (I only got one, but I feel your pain.)
My first round of changes are the following:
-2 Deviant Glee: Golgari already has enough ways to overcommit to a single creature. You don't need any more. If you were already splashing red you could keep these, since trample is good, but you have no other real reason to play red.
-1 Drainpipe Vermin: We have a better cheap creature in the sideboard.
+1 Tavern Swindler: Ignore the ability -- it's just a Walking Corpse, but still better than a 1/1 for 1.
+1 Rubbleback Rhino: Attacks the overcommitment problem from the other end.
+1 Assassin's Strike: Removal! Even more necessary than usual in this format where everyone has at least one bomb.
OK, now we have to consider the white splash. You basically only get Centaur Healer and Courser's Accord, but there is an argument that these are significant upgrades to Tavern Swindler and Golgari Charm, respectively (I think these are my next cuts, but it might be Jailbreaker or Treasured Find instead of Golgari Charm), and that this is true even if you don't get to cast them on curve. For this the manabase would be adjusted by the addition of Transguild Promenade and 2 Plains, and probably the removal of 3 Swamps (Rogue's Passage seems important here). Another option is to cut the Treasured Find for the Chromatic Lantern as well. I'm still not sure about whether the splash is a good idea.
I can see no reason not run this pool as Jund. Between the Chromatic Lantern and the Transguild Promenade, you seem to have some nice fixing. I would recommend never running Centaur's Herald in any deck that is not Selesnya based. Without populate, it is not worth it to play a vanilla 3/3 for 4. Golgari Charm and Sewer Shambler do have their purposes, however they are much more suited to sideboard. Drainpipe Vermin is not very good, and Ogre Jailbreaker is decent, but you would be better off with Hellhole Flailer. Splatter Thug is very nice if you hit it after Corpsejack Menace hitting the board. You pretty much have to play Assassin's Strike. Removal is removal and this format is pretty slow. Because of that, I also included Annihilating Fire. You will often draw into quite a bit of your mana. Previous to actually playing the format, I would have put in the Golgari Longlegs as well, but I played it in 2 different prereleases and it was very underwhelming. All total, you would end up with 1 less creature, but your creature quality definitely improves, and the loss of the creature can be offset by the additional removal.
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Pauper Aficionado and Limited Specialist
Fan of Red Raccoon Games in Bloomington, Illinois
KenAlsdorf on MTGO, Wargru on XMage
1) Stay pure Golgari. Definitely your safest option. With this I'd have made the following changes to your (very solid) deck. (Very similar to what others have said).
This is basically a control deck that tries to stabilize/favorably trade until it's late game power takes over. You're going to have problems against Azorius/Izzet fliers (even with Aerial Predation sided in).
2) Go for a more aggro build by splashing red. This is definitely riskier, but in my opinion gives you a better overall chance, given how little removal you got. It also synergizes well (Corpsejack + Unleash, aggro + Lotleth Troll). Here's the changes for this build, imo.
-1 Drainpipe Vermin
-1 Zanikev Locust
-1 Golgari Charm (although it would probably get sided in for many matches)
-1 Ogre Jailbreaker
-1 Towering Indrik (sided back in vs. Azorius)
-3 Swamps
-1 Forest
+1 Chromatic Lantern
+3 Splatter Thugs
+1 Hellhole Flailer
+1 Transguild Promenade (hate for this to be our "2-drop", but...)
+3 Mountains
You could also drop the Centaur's Herald for the Assassin's Stike - that's a close one imo. Blocking with the Herald and then popping him on turn 3 or popping him and killing your tired opponent's 2/2 attacker is nice (happened a lot to me). But Assassin's Strike can hit at just the right time to kill your opponent's bomb (and force a discard). Tough call.
Try to kill them ASAP and pray you don't get mana screwed...
I would recommend never running Centaur's Herald in any deck that is not Selesnya based. Without populate, it is not worth it to play a vanilla 3/3 for 4.
A 3/3 for 4 is acceptable (even if its weak to bounce). But this is actually a bit better than that. You get activate it as early as turn three, making it faster, and you get to chump block with it, making it similar to centaur healer (worse obviously)
Deviant Glee is bad. I'm not going to go through the whole thing. But the Rogue's Passage is so good, it begs to put in a few bombs. Axebane Stag and Rubbleback Rhino IN, deviant glees out. Assassin Strike is automatically IN.
Think strategically. Lotleth Trolls can possibly chump block a long time... so you ARE going to have long games and Rogue's Passage will win if you can it for 5 or 6.
I would add the Aerial Predation -- this set is full of flying bombs. Izzet, Azorious, Rakdos guilds all have huge flying bombs you almost definitely will see. (sideboard out 2nd game if not) -- but maindeck it for sure.
It's definitely a weak pool. I faced Seleysna decks with two Trostani's, and all kinds of proliferate cards -- the lifegain was essentially auto-win. I think sealed RTR is incredibly unbalanced... never seen anything like it. Some people just got the nuts and there was no way to construct junk that could pull off a win. So the removal cards are a must. At least you could get really lucky and the other guy gets flooded two games.
A 3/3 for 4 is acceptable (even if its weak to bounce). But this is actually a bit better than that. You get activate it as early as turn three, making it faster, and you get to chump block with it, making it similar to centaur healer (worse obviously)
a 3/3 for 4 is way behind the curve in Ravnica. Selesnya gets a 4/4 for 3 and Rakdos gets 3/3 for 3 with first strike and a usually irrelevant can't block clause.
As for OP, you should have been running the 3 of Splatter thugs. The lantern is amazing pretty much always, and with the addition of the splatter thugs you can play a more aggro race and force your opponent into bad situations where you catch them on their heels with your Demon and Hellhole Flailer.
Splashing aggressively-oriented cards is almost always a bad idea, since you will not get to play them on curve reliably. The Splatter Thugs have no place in this deck, since the pool doesn't support an aggro deck with red as a main color.
If you think the plan of casting turn 3 Splatter Thug off 3 Mountains and a Transguild Promenade, in a deck otherwise filled with durdles and creatures costing BG, is a realistic way to win the game, you're being awfully optimistic.
Please stop using tournament rares as a baseline when evaluating limited formats.
The correct cards to use as baselines for an environment are commons, or occasionally bomb uncommons.
fine... They get that same token for GW. Better? The sac for a token girl is bad in anything that's not trying to populate a ton of tokens.
And he should be running Rakdos with a splash of green not a splash of red. Every removal you have should be in this (except Golgari charm it's -1/-1 is not going to really effect many things) and other than your flyer killer none of the rest of them are green.
Splashing aggressively-oriented cards is almost always a bad idea, since you will not get to play them on curve reliably. The Splatter Thugs have no place in this deck, since the pool doesn't support an aggro deck with red as a main color.
If you think the plan of casting turn 3 Splatter Thug off 3 Mountains and a Transguild Promenade, in a deck otherwise filled with durdles and creatures costing BG, is a realistic way to win the game, you're being awfully optimistic.
I understand and generally agree with your point. You've only got about a 70% chance of hitting your turn 3 red source, which is not great odds in the long run (although the Chromatic Lantern is another source that can get them out on turn 4). But I think that the green and black cards in this sealed pool are pretty darn weak, especially on removal and flying defense. This means that a pure Golgari deck would also not have enough good cards to reliably compete, in my opinion.
On further reflection (and with more information/experience with RtR) I might move from a red splash to more balance, and also make the following changes to my "aggro-jund" plan.
-1 Grisly Salvage
-1 Sluiceway Scorpion
-1 Swamp
+2 Cobblebrute
+1 Mountain
This raises the odds of getting a turn 3 red source to almost 80%. Still not great, but significantly better. And the odds of a turn 4 red source are over 85%. Thoughts?
1 Sphere of safety (foil)
1 Security blockade
2 Sunspire Griffin
2 Armory Guard
1 Azorius Arrester
1 Keening Apparition
1 Knightly Valor
1 Swift Justice
1 Avenging Arrow
Blue
2 Search the city
1 Soulsworn Spirit
1 Stealer of secrets
1 Cancel
1 Inspiration
1 Runewing
1 Isperia's skywatch
1 Chronic flooding
Black
1 Desecration Demon
1 Zanikev Locust
1 Assassin's Strike
1 Tavern Swindler
1 Shrieking Affliction
2 Dead reveler
2 Deviant Glee
1 Sewer Shambler
1 Ogre Jailbreaker
1 Stab Wound
1 Drainpipe vermin
2 Terrus Wurm
2 Perilous Shadow
1 Cremate
1 Guttersnipe
1 Vandalblast
1 Goblin Rally
3 Splatter Thug
2 Clobberbrute
1 Electrickery
1 Annihilating Fire
1 Survey the Wreckage
Green
1 Savage Surge
1 Drudge Beetle
1 Towering Indrik
3 Urban Burgeoning
1 Aerial Predation
1 Axebane Stag
1 Chorus of Might
1 Rubbleback Rhino
1 Centaur's Herald
Artifact
1 Chromatic Lantern (foil)
1 Golgari Keyrune
Golgari
2 Lotleth Troll
1 Corpsejack Menace (promo)
1 Golgari charm
2 Treasure Find
1 Sluiceway Scorpion
1 Grisly Slavage
1 Golgari Longlegs
3 Golgari Guildgate
1 Hellhole Flailer
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Spawn of Rix Maadi
Selesnya
1 Courser's Accord
1 Centaur Healer
Izzet
1 Nivix Guildmage
Azorius
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Vassal Soul
1 Dramatic Rescue
Other
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Transguild Promenade
2 Lotleth Troll
1 Corpsejack Menace (promo)
1 Desecration Demon
1 Zanikev Locust
1 Sluiceway Scorpion
1 Golgari Longlegs
2 Dead Reveler
1 Sewer Shambler
1 Ogre Jailbreaker
1 Drainpipe Vermin
1 Druge Beetle
1 Towering Indrik
1 Centaur's Herald
1 Golgari Keyrune
Instant
1 Golgari Charm
1 Savage Surge
1 Grisly Salvage
Sorcery/Enchantment
1 Stab Wound
2 Deviant Glee
1 Treasure Find
Land
3 Golgari Guildgate
1 Rogue's Passage
8 Swamp
5 Forest
This is maybe the 3rd or 4th limited deck I've built. I usually do terribly, but this time I kept in mind the BREAD formula, and I think this deck is a lot better than what I usually put together, I ended up in 10th place with 3-2.
Thanks a lot for the input, I'm still pretty new at deck building and am more than happy to receive tips / feedback.
- Treasure Find
- Drainpipe Vermin
- 2 Deviant Glee
+ Chromatic Lantern
+ Chorus of Might
+ Assassin's Strike
+ Rubbleback Rhino
More removal, more action, instead of weaksauce.
My first round of changes are the following:
-2 Deviant Glee: Golgari already has enough ways to overcommit to a single creature. You don't need any more. If you were already splashing red you could keep these, since trample is good, but you have no other real reason to play red.
-1 Drainpipe Vermin: We have a better cheap creature in the sideboard.
+1 Tavern Swindler: Ignore the ability -- it's just a Walking Corpse, but still better than a 1/1 for 1.
+1 Rubbleback Rhino: Attacks the overcommitment problem from the other end.
+1 Assassin's Strike: Removal! Even more necessary than usual in this format where everyone has at least one bomb.
OK, now we have to consider the white splash. You basically only get Centaur Healer and Courser's Accord, but there is an argument that these are significant upgrades to Tavern Swindler and Golgari Charm, respectively (I think these are my next cuts, but it might be Jailbreaker or Treasured Find instead of Golgari Charm), and that this is true even if you don't get to cast them on curve. For this the manabase would be adjusted by the addition of Transguild Promenade and 2 Plains, and probably the removal of 3 Swamps (Rogue's Passage seems important here). Another option is to cut the Treasured Find for the Chromatic Lantern as well. I'm still not sure about whether the splash is a good idea.
-1 Drainpipe Vermin
-1 Sewer Shambler
-1 Ogre Jailbreaker
-1 Golgari Longlegs
-1 Centaur's Herald
-1 Golgari Charm
-3 Swamp
-1 Forest
+1 Chromatic Lantern
+1 Transguild Promenade
+3 Mountain
+3 Splatter Thug
+1 Hellhole Flailer
+1 Annihilating Fire
+1 Assassin's Strike
I can see no reason not run this pool as Jund. Between the Chromatic Lantern and the Transguild Promenade, you seem to have some nice fixing. I would recommend never running Centaur's Herald in any deck that is not Selesnya based. Without populate, it is not worth it to play a vanilla 3/3 for 4. Golgari Charm and Sewer Shambler do have their purposes, however they are much more suited to sideboard. Drainpipe Vermin is not very good, and Ogre Jailbreaker is decent, but you would be better off with Hellhole Flailer. Splatter Thug is very nice if you hit it after Corpsejack Menace hitting the board. You pretty much have to play Assassin's Strike. Removal is removal and this format is pretty slow. Because of that, I also included Annihilating Fire. You will often draw into quite a bit of your mana. Previous to actually playing the format, I would have put in the Golgari Longlegs as well, but I played it in 2 different prereleases and it was very underwhelming. All total, you would end up with 1 less creature, but your creature quality definitely improves, and the loss of the creature can be offset by the additional removal.
Fan of Red Raccoon Games in Bloomington, Illinois
KenAlsdorf on MTGO, Wargru on XMage
1) Stay pure Golgari. Definitely your safest option. With this I'd have made the following changes to your (very solid) deck. (Very similar to what others have said).
-1 Drainpipe Vermin
-2 Deviant Glee
-1 Swamp
+1 Rubbleback Rhino
+1 Assassin's Strike
+1 Chorus of Might
+1 Forest
This is basically a control deck that tries to stabilize/favorably trade until it's late game power takes over. You're going to have problems against Azorius/Izzet fliers (even with Aerial Predation sided in).
2) Go for a more aggro build by splashing red. This is definitely riskier, but in my opinion gives you a better overall chance, given how little removal you got. It also synergizes well (Corpsejack + Unleash, aggro + Lotleth Troll). Here's the changes for this build, imo.
-1 Drainpipe Vermin
-1 Zanikev Locust
-1 Golgari Charm (although it would probably get sided in for many matches)
-1 Ogre Jailbreaker
-1 Towering Indrik (sided back in vs. Azorius)
-3 Swamps
-1 Forest
+1 Chromatic Lantern
+3 Splatter Thugs
+1 Hellhole Flailer
+1 Transguild Promenade (hate for this to be our "2-drop", but...)
+3 Mountains
You could also drop the Centaur's Herald for the Assassin's Stike - that's a close one imo. Blocking with the Herald and then popping him on turn 3 or popping him and killing your tired opponent's 2/2 attacker is nice (happened a lot to me). But Assassin's Strike can hit at just the right time to kill your opponent's bomb (and force a discard). Tough call.
Try to kill them ASAP and pray you don't get mana screwed...
A 3/3 for 4 is acceptable (even if its weak to bounce). But this is actually a bit better than that. You get activate it as early as turn three, making it faster, and you get to chump block with it, making it similar to centaur healer (worse obviously)
Think strategically. Lotleth Trolls can possibly chump block a long time... so you ARE going to have long games and Rogue's Passage will win if you can it for 5 or 6.
I would add the Aerial Predation -- this set is full of flying bombs. Izzet, Azorious, Rakdos guilds all have huge flying bombs you almost definitely will see. (sideboard out 2nd game if not) -- but maindeck it for sure.
It's definitely a weak pool. I faced Seleysna decks with two Trostani's, and all kinds of proliferate cards -- the lifegain was essentially auto-win. I think sealed RTR is incredibly unbalanced... never seen anything like it. Some people just got the nuts and there was no way to construct junk that could pull off a win. So the removal cards are a must. At least you could get really lucky and the other guy gets flooded two games.
a 3/3 for 4 is way behind the curve in Ravnica. Selesnya gets a 4/4 for 3 and Rakdos gets 3/3 for 3 with first strike and a usually irrelevant can't block clause.
As for OP, you should have been running the 3 of Splatter thugs. The lantern is amazing pretty much always, and with the addition of the splatter thugs you can play a more aggro race and force your opponent into bad situations where you catch them on their heels with your Demon and Hellhole Flailer.
Please stop using tournament rares as a baseline when evaluating limited formats.
The correct cards to use as baselines for an environment are commons, or occasionally bomb uncommons.
If you think the plan of casting turn 3 Splatter Thug off 3 Mountains and a Transguild Promenade, in a deck otherwise filled with durdles and creatures costing BG, is a realistic way to win the game, you're being awfully optimistic.
fine... They get that same token for GW. Better? The sac for a token girl is bad in anything that's not trying to populate a ton of tokens.
And he should be running Rakdos with a splash of green not a splash of red. Every removal you have should be in this (except Golgari charm it's -1/-1 is not going to really effect many things) and other than your flyer killer none of the rest of them are green.
I understand and generally agree with your point. You've only got about a 70% chance of hitting your turn 3 red source, which is not great odds in the long run (although the Chromatic Lantern is another source that can get them out on turn 4). But I think that the green and black cards in this sealed pool are pretty darn weak, especially on removal and flying defense. This means that a pure Golgari deck would also not have enough good cards to reliably compete, in my opinion.
On further reflection (and with more information/experience with RtR) I might move from a red splash to more balance, and also make the following changes to my "aggro-jund" plan.
-1 Grisly Salvage
-1 Sluiceway Scorpion
-1 Swamp
+2 Cobblebrute
+1 Mountain
This raises the odds of getting a turn 3 red source to almost 80%. Still not great, but significantly better. And the odds of a turn 4 red source are over 85%. Thoughts?