This thread is for creation of custom content for D&D 4th Edition. I felt that a new thread would be necessary, for clarity and ease of browsing reasons. They are 2 whole different systems after all. Also, when people start getting the hang of 4th edition, i think we will see a lot of posts like this and it's nice to have a place to hang around and discuss.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I... don't see the need to bother with this thread just yet.. but okay..
Crusader "The power of my faith guides my steel." Crusader is a base class derived from Tome of Battle.
Class Traits Role: Defender/Leader. Hard to say this early on, yeah? Power Source: Martial/Divine. The crusader's strengths lie in her devotion to her cause, aided by the gods. A crusader's chosen weapon is their divine implement. Key Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Charisma Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail, scale; light shield, heavy shield Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged Bonus to Defense: Fortitude +1, Reflex +1
Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score Hit Points per Level Gained: 6 Healing Surges per Day: 5 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Martial Lore. From the class skills list below, choose two more trained skills at 1st level.
Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Martial Lore (Int), Religion (Int)
Build Options: Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven Class Features: Ordained Weapon, Steely Resolve, Indomitable Soul
Crusader Class Features Ordained Weapon: At 1st level, choose a melee weapon type and a ranged weapon type. Weapons of the chosen types are considered the crusader's divine implement.
Steely Resolve: You have a delayed damage pool that resets to 0 at the start of each encounter. When an opponent strikes you, you ignore damage equal to your resolve total, and add that much to your delayed damage pool. At the end of your next turn, you take damage equal to the amount in your pool and it resets to 0. If you recieve any healing between then, you may choose whether it heals your hit point total or your resolve pool. Any other effects from an attack affect you normally.
At 1st level, your steely resolve pool can hold 5 damage. The pool increases by 5 at 6th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 27th, and 30th level to a maximum of 40.
In addition, you gain the Furious Counterstrike ability in addition to your gained abilities. Furious Counterstrike Crusader Utility 1 You hold your resolve firmly as your attack brings back vengeance for your recent wounds. At-Will ~ Martial, Divine, Weapon Free Action Melee or Ranged weapon, Implement Trigger: Your attack hits a target. Prerequisite: You must have damage in your Steely Resolve pool. Effect: The target takes divine damage equal to the amount of damage in your Steely Resolve pool, then your pool is reset to 0.
Indomitable Soul: Add your Charisma modifier, if any, to your Will defense.
Powers to come later. Let me know what you think! Obviously it's not gonna be perfect on the first draft.
I like the crusader, it's easily my favourite from ToB base classes. (If not only for the reason that it lets me have a 'deck' of power cards that i can shuffle and draw from.). And I like where you are going there, the only thing that might be too strong is Steely Resolve - 40 damage is a lot in 4E. Infact, it's about as much as tarrasgue deals every round with it's basic attack. With special attacks it can get to 58 (Recharge on 5,6. Must hit with 2 attacks.). Even with the Damage Over Time crusader could tank it for a really long while.
I am not sure if it's too strong yet, but I'd say that be careful with it.
Also: Added Mamelon's Metamagic (tm)
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
40 damage is a lot in 4E. Infact, it's about as much as tarrasgue deals every round with it's basic attack.
These sort of comparisons are very poor. A level 3 rogue with a +1 rapier and Torturous Strike on a sneak attack can do 35 + STR and DEX damage on a critical, with an average of 19 + STR and DEX. That's not a huge margin of difference, relatively speaking, but it's a huge level margin. These examples where you use an attack made by the Tarrasque are horrible, HORRIBLE examples, because they throw all context out of the window and basically just measure isolated numbers against each other, which take no practical application into account whatsoever. Theory rarely impacts the game table, whereas realistic examples are what make up the experience of actually playing.
Doing 40 damage in a round on 30th level with an ability that is contingent upon an outside circumstance is far from overpowered, when you consider a relatively low level character can do nearly that much if not more damage with an encounter power 27 levels lower.
Yes, 40 damage is a lot in 4e. Is 40 damage from a (not really) at-will power at 30th level too much? No, not at all, when you look at it in contrast to what other players and classes are able to do at that point- especially when a character wielding a +6 weapon that deals a d10 damage can be doing 2d10 + STAT + 6 damage every round, without requiring a trigger like Furious Counterstrike does.
Now: On the crusader- why is this a base class and not just a paragon path? Understand that many classes that exist in 3e exist only because of the nature of the 3e class system. The functional difference between this class and a paladin or fighter are very small- it's basically an expansion of either concept as it is, and seems better suited as a paragon path. I mean, realistically, how can you hope to stretch it's power choices across 30 levels when so many of its abilities are going to cross into the territory of the fighter or paladin most of the time?
I'm not worried about the damage the crusader can do. I'm worried about the fact that if he hits on his turn with an attack, his damage pool resets and he doesn't take the damage. This makes crusader extremely hard to kill at most levels, considering that monsters don't do 300 damage a round anymore. This effectively works as healing on the crusader himself, as long as he hits the opponent. (With any attacks that target many creatures etc, this would be quite easy to accomplish.)
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm not done with the Crusader class--I just have to figure out how I want to convert the maneuvers from ToB to 4e, that's all. If I want all 3 classes to be able to choose from their respective maneuver styles, or just restrict the Crusader to a condensed list, or whatever.
For the moment, the Crusader class and the other ToB classes can wait. I just came up with an intriguing idea talking with Sepiriel.
Gestalt 4th Edition?
Yeah, you heard me. Two classes in one character, advancing side-by-side. Eliminates the technical issues compared to 3.5 multiclassing, since both sides' powers progress at the same rate.
Role: Depends on the pairing. We'd have to go through all possible combinations to see, I suppose. Power Source: Both classes' sources. Key Abilities: Both classes.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Both classes' proficiencies, though we might want to make it so casters can't cast in heavier armor. Implements: Both classes' Bonus to Defense: Both classes'; they don't stack.
Hit Points at 1st Level: Equal to the class with the higher amount. Hit Points per Level Gained: Equal to the average between the two classes, rounded down. Healing Surges per Day: Equal to the class with the higher amount + Con modifier.
Trained Skills: Both classes, plus X+2 of any of either class's class skills, where X is the highest between the two. Build Options: Both sides build however you like. Class Features: Gain both classes' features.
Obviously this implies a 4e game with a slightly higher difficulty curve.
edit:
Here's the real question: Would they gain double their number of powers, or just have the same number but a wider range of choices? I think it might be safe to let them have the 4 at-will powers, but the other powers they have to pick as normal, between either class.
Yep sounds about right... now who wants to run this smexy baby? funniest thing is that 4e gestalt makes 2 player (plus Dm :p) possible at the same power level as that of a normal 4-5 people party
edit in response to alacars edit: I would say let the powers either progress at double the amount (thats to say each progression adds it own set of powers) or at 1.5 the amount (basically making the cap per power type[encounter, daily, utility] bigger from 4 to 6... i tink the cap is 4 powers per type... if not adjust accordingly)
I'm surprised myself at how balanced it could be. the DM would just have to ramp up the difficulty a teensy bit, but the characters only have more options, not more power.
As for powers, I think it should be normal progression, but for both sides--split down the middle. That way you have double the powers, but you can't lump all of them into one class just for the boost.
I don't see a single reason to limit casters from casting in full plates, seriously.. I am more concerned about stuff such as ranger/fighters or some other powerful striker combined with a powerful defender class, as those would be really capable of doing a lot of things on their own. Sure, wizard/paladin might be powerful, but not one of my top-notch choices for a game such as this, for plenty of reasons. Not only there is almost no synergy between the two classes and they use different power sources and different items to fuel themselves, but the abilities also contradict at places - Wizard wants to control the field and use different effects to keep away from melee combat, paladin wants to be in melee combat all the time. Should wizard/paladin be restricted to cloth armor, it would simply fail horribly, and be either just wizard with some extra hp and few semi-useful skills, or a paladin with a bit more skills.
Cleric is also good with everything.. Some things didn't change from 3.5E.
Also, technically, characters DO have more power this way, because they have more daily and/or encounter powers, so they don't need to go back to at-will powers as fast as they normally might have to. (They also have a bit more skills and/or hitpoints and/or class base abilities.)
EDIT: Aaaand I think Alacar forgot Artificer.. Which isn't really complete class but might be worth mention anyway.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Well i can understand the issue over armor, since theres no more spell failure and the only thing limiting a wizard is the proficiency (for which he waste feats), so yeah limiting casters may not be a good option.
Skills and Hit points are already addressed by Alacar's rules, you only get the first two given skills, get to pick from X skills where X is the highest number of skill a class grants then 2 more.
HP is also addressed.
Artificer isnt complete and i dont think adding an incomplete class is fair, and im the guy wanting to have barbarians running around by the way
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
New Feat, for FR 4E players that don't want to believe in the Spellplague.
Heroic Tier Feat Mystra's Grace Prerequisite: Channel Divinity class feature, must worship Mystra
Benefits: You can invoke the power of your deity to use Mystra's Grace.
Channel Divinity: Mystra's Grace Feat Power Encounter - Divine, Implement
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Choose one - You gain a bonus to your Will and Fort defense equal to your class level or your Wisdom modifier, whichever is higher, until the start of your next turn; or you may make a saving throw against an arcane or divine effect. Special: You must take the Mystra's Grace feat to use this power.
After consideration casters in plate should be ok, or at least an ok idea during the beta test if it proves to much suggest we scale it down to maybe chain.
Also since Alacar hasnt posted it yet i will to make it P&PI official Human's bonus At-Will will be limited to 1 yes thats ONE extra at will from a single side of the progression, so say you are a fighter/cleric you either get an extra at will from the fighter progression or from the cleric progression not on extra at will from both progressions.
Also we should consider testing the effect of feats or features that increase the number of powers one gets if the balance gets tipped to far it may be wise to nip those away
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
well to be honest Cleric and Wizard are the two most controlish classes of the lot so they do have more than normal, where as me being s Swormage/Warlock means i will be eating feats like nuts
Edit:
Following is an At Will designed for NPC Rogues.
Rain of Daggers At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Ranged 5 Thrown Weapon Target: One Creature Attack: Dex+2 vs Ref Hit: 1[W]+Dex. Make Secondary Attack Secondary Target: Primary Target or One Creature Within 3 Squares of the Primary Target. Attack: Dex vs Ref Hit: 1[W]+Dex. Effect: You may Repeat the Secondary Attack Once. Special: At Level 11 increase the Damage to 2[W]+Dex and you may repeat the Secondary Attack Two Times instead of just once. At Level 21 increase the Damage to 3[W]+Dex and you may repeat the Secondary Attack three times instead of two.
[Inser cool banner here.]
Classes:
Amadi - Truenamer [Work In Progress]
Alacar - Crusader [Work In Progress]
Paragon Paths:
Feats:
Mamelon - Empower, Maximize and Widen Spell [Complete]
Photon - Handful of more Metamagic
Mamelon - Few Metaprayers, Opportunistic Exploit feat and Few new powers.
Mamelon - Some more powers
Powers:
Items:
Skills:
Miscellanous:
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Crusader
"The power of my faith guides my steel."
Crusader is a base class derived from Tome of Battle.
Class Traits
Role: Defender/Leader. Hard to say this early on, yeah?
Power Source: Martial/Divine. The crusader's strengths lie in her devotion to her cause, aided by the gods. A crusader's chosen weapon is their divine implement.
Key Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Charisma
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail, scale; light shield, heavy shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Bonus to Defense: Fortitude +1, Reflex +1
Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Healing Surges per Day: 5 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Martial Lore. From the class skills list below, choose two more trained skills at 1st level.
Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Martial Lore (Int), Religion (Int)
Build Options: Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven
Class Features: Ordained Weapon, Steely Resolve, Indomitable Soul
Crusader Class Features
Ordained Weapon: At 1st level, choose a melee weapon type and a ranged weapon type. Weapons of the chosen types are considered the crusader's divine implement.
Steely Resolve: You have a delayed damage pool that resets to 0 at the start of each encounter. When an opponent strikes you, you ignore damage equal to your resolve total, and add that much to your delayed damage pool. At the end of your next turn, you take damage equal to the amount in your pool and it resets to 0. If you recieve any healing between then, you may choose whether it heals your hit point total or your resolve pool. Any other effects from an attack affect you normally.
At 1st level, your steely resolve pool can hold 5 damage. The pool increases by 5 at 6th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 27th, and 30th level to a maximum of 40.
In addition, you gain the Furious Counterstrike ability in addition to your gained abilities.
Furious Counterstrike Crusader Utility 1
You hold your resolve firmly as your attack brings back vengeance for your recent wounds.
At-Will ~ Martial, Divine, Weapon
Free Action Melee or Ranged weapon, Implement
Trigger: Your attack hits a target.
Prerequisite: You must have damage in your Steely Resolve pool.
Effect: The target takes divine damage equal to the amount of damage in your Steely Resolve pool, then your pool is reset to 0.
Indomitable Soul: Add your Charisma modifier, if any, to your Will defense.
Powers to come later. Let me know what you think! Obviously it's not gonna be perfect on the first draft.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
I am not sure if it's too strong yet, but I'd say that be careful with it.
Also: Added Mamelon's Metamagic (tm)
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Doing 40 damage in a round on 30th level with an ability that is contingent upon an outside circumstance is far from overpowered, when you consider a relatively low level character can do nearly that much if not more damage with an encounter power 27 levels lower.
Yes, 40 damage is a lot in 4e. Is 40 damage from a (not really) at-will power at 30th level too much? No, not at all, when you look at it in contrast to what other players and classes are able to do at that point- especially when a character wielding a +6 weapon that deals a d10 damage can be doing 2d10 + STAT + 6 damage every round, without requiring a trigger like Furious Counterstrike does.
Now: On the crusader- why is this a base class and not just a paragon path? Understand that many classes that exist in 3e exist only because of the nature of the 3e class system. The functional difference between this class and a paladin or fighter are very small- it's basically an expansion of either concept as it is, and seems better suited as a paragon path. I mean, realistically, how can you hope to stretch it's power choices across 30 levels when so many of its abilities are going to cross into the territory of the fighter or paladin most of the time?
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Gestalt 4th Edition?
Yeah, you heard me. Two classes in one character, advancing side-by-side. Eliminates the technical issues compared to 3.5 multiclassing, since both sides' powers progress at the same rate.
Role: Depends on the pairing. We'd have to go through all possible combinations to see, I suppose.
Power Source: Both classes' sources.
Key Abilities: Both classes.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Both classes' proficiencies, though we might want to make it so casters can't cast in heavier armor.
Implements: Both classes'
Bonus to Defense: Both classes'; they don't stack.
Hit Points at 1st Level: Equal to the class with the higher amount.
Hit Points per Level Gained: Equal to the average between the two classes, rounded down.
Healing Surges per Day: Equal to the class with the higher amount + Con modifier.
Trained Skills: Both classes, plus X+2 of any of either class's class skills, where X is the highest between the two.
Build Options: Both sides build however you like.
Class Features: Gain both classes' features.
Obviously this implies a 4e game with a slightly higher difficulty curve.
edit:
Here's the real question: Would they gain double their number of powers, or just have the same number but a wider range of choices? I think it might be safe to let them have the 4 at-will powers, but the other powers they have to pick as normal, between either class.
Hmmm..
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
edit in response to alacars edit: I would say let the powers either progress at double the amount (thats to say each progression adds it own set of powers) or at 1.5 the amount (basically making the cap per power type[encounter, daily, utility] bigger from 4 to 6... i tink the cap is 4 powers per type... if not adjust accordingly)
Swordmage/Wizard
Swordmage/Warlord
Paladin/Warlord
Warioland (Warlord/Warlock)
Warlock/Rogue
all this are combos that get silly really fast really quick
As for powers, I think it should be normal progression, but for both sides--split down the middle. That way you have double the powers, but you can't lump all of them into one class just for the boost.
Cleric//Paladin
Cleric//Ranger
Cleric//Rogue
Cleric//Warlock
Cleric//Warlord
Cleric//Wizard
Cleric//Swordmage
Fighter//Paladin
Fighter//Ranger
Fighter//Rogue
Fighter//Warlock
Fighter//Warlord
Fighter//Wizard
Fighter//Swordmage
Paladin//Ranger
Paladin//Rogue
Paladin//Warlock
Paladin//Warlord
Paladin//Wizard
Paladin//Swordmage
Ranger//Rogue
Ranger//Warlock
Ranger//Warlord
Ranger//Wizard
Ranger//Swordmage
Rogue//Warlock
Rogue//Warlord
Rogue//Wizard
Rogue//Swordmage
Warlock//Warlord
Warlock//Wizard
Warlock//Swordmage
Warlord//Wizard
Warlord//Swordmage
Wizard//Swordmage
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Cleric is also good with everything.. Some things didn't change from 3.5E.
Also, technically, characters DO have more power this way, because they have more daily and/or encounter powers, so they don't need to go back to at-will powers as fast as they normally might have to. (They also have a bit more skills and/or hitpoints and/or class base abilities.)
EDIT: Aaaand I think Alacar forgot Artificer.. Which isn't really complete class but might be worth mention anyway.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Skills and Hit points are already addressed by Alacar's rules, you only get the first two given skills, get to pick from X skills where X is the highest number of skill a class grants then 2 more.
HP is also addressed.
Artificer isnt complete and i dont think adding an incomplete class is fair, and im the guy wanting to have barbarians running around by the way
2) More powers: That's kinda the point. It's still up to the DM to increase the difficulty a notch.
3) Artificer is incomplete. No sense using it yet.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Heroic Tier Feat
Mystra's Grace
Prerequisite: Channel Divinity class feature, must worship Mystra
Benefits: You can invoke the power of your deity to use Mystra's Grace.
Channel Divinity: Mystra's Grace Feat Power
Encounter - Divine, Implement
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Choose one - You gain a bonus to your Will and Fort defense equal to your class level or your Wisdom modifier, whichever is higher, until the start of your next turn; or you may make a saving throw against an arcane or divine effect.
Special: You must take the Mystra's Grace feat to use this power.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Also since Alacar hasnt posted it yet i will to make it P&PI official Human's bonus At-Will will be limited to 1 yes thats ONE extra at will from a single side of the progression, so say you are a fighter/cleric you either get an extra at will from the fighter progression or from the cleric progression not on extra at will from both progressions.
Also we should consider testing the effect of feats or features that increase the number of powers one gets if the balance gets tipped to far it may be wise to nip those away
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Edit:
Following is an At Will designed for NPC Rogues.
Rain of Daggers
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Ranged 5 Thrown Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Dex+2 vs Ref
Hit: 1[W]+Dex. Make Secondary Attack
Secondary Target: Primary Target or One Creature Within 3 Squares of the Primary Target.
Attack: Dex vs Ref
Hit: 1[W]+Dex.
Effect: You may Repeat the Secondary Attack Once.
Special: At Level 11 increase the Damage to 2[W]+Dex and you may repeat the Secondary Attack Two Times instead of just once. At Level 21 increase the Damage to 3[W]+Dex and you may repeat the Secondary Attack three times instead of two.