Erm, I'm not really pro at DMing. I'd say I'm decent at creating worlds, quests, NPC's, and the like, but handling Players is an entirely different thing.
I'm DMing a campaign along with a friend, and a problem has been in play since we've started. Metagame thinking.
Because the racial traits of DM gives you a Charisma modifier of -50 when dealing with out-of-line players, I can't exactly convince my players not to participate in metagame thinking.
And basically, I was wondering, how do you get someone to roll a "Sense Motive" check against a shopkeeper, without them being like "NEVERMIND-I-DON'T-WANNA-BUY-THIS!" ?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Je ne suis pas fiere de ca
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
What I sometimes do is record the PCs' ranks in skills like Spot, Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Move Silently, Hide, ect. on a piece of paper.
When they need to make the roll and I don't want them to know what they got or that they rolled, I roll for them and give them the result at the appropriate time.
Here's an example:
The party was walking through an abandoned castle, having just recovered a metal rune they were looking for.
What they didn't know is that 15 vampires were watching them from inside the rooms lining the hall, waiting to ambush them when they were far enough in the hall. I rolled a Listen check for the character with the highest modifier without her knowing it. She got a natural 20, so I told her she heard movement behind every door, and she warned the party. They proceeded to literally tear the castle apart with Earthquake, Meteor Swarm, and Disintegrate.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Part of it has to do with the players themselves. It always works better if the players are willing to suspend disbelief so to speak, and just play using in-game info anyway (in other words, voluntarily refrain from metagaming).
If you have players that won't do that for you, then you could always do something like make secret rolls (consistently asking for their character sheet just for modifiers). Then you only tell them the information that their character gets.
To prevent them from being suspicious whenever you make a secret roll, you'll probably want to do that even when there's no information to get or when they're almost guaranteed to get the information anyway. That way they're really not sure what's going on and they learn to basically ignore the secret rolls except when they actually get some information off of them.
Okay, thanks guys. I think I'll try a mixture of both diplomacy with the players, and collecting their stats for secret rolls.
I did try that secret roll once, but because I didn't have their sheets, I just reduced any bonuses they may have had. As a result, they failed the check, and the idea caex introduced came to me, as well. But some people are stupid and refuse to let me keep their sheets between only two sessions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Je ne suis pas fiere de ca
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
Also, because you're co-DMing, you might have the other DM make the roll when you're talking to (distracting) the players, and he signals if they succeed or fail. I don't know how well that'll work though, because I've never DMed with another player.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Also, because you're co-DMing, you might have the other DM make the roll when you're talking to (distracting) the players, and he signals if they succeed or fail. I don't know how well that'll work though, because I've never DMed with another player.
Haha, I'll discuss it with him at our next DM meeting. Thank you
But yeah it's nice to know because while this one will be put on hold, I'm starting up another one with a smaller group of people.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Je ne suis pas fiere de ca
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
I did try that secret roll once, but because I didn't have their sheets, I just reduced any bonuses they may have had. As a result, they failed the check, and the idea caex introduced came to me, as well. But some people are stupid and refuse to let me keep their sheets between only two sessions.
What my DMs have done, which I think works quite well, is that before you start playing the first session with that set of characters you pass around a sheet of paper. Everyone writes their name (and maybe their character's name) along with AC, saves, important skill checks (spot, listen, maybe sense motive, etc), and any passive special abilities (like darkvision or low-light vision). That way you have all of the information on a handy sheet of paper and you can refer to it whenever you need to make any secret rolls or the like.
What my DMs have done, which I think works quite well, is that before you start playing the first session with that set of characters you pass around a sheet of paper. Everyone writes their name (and maybe their character's name) along with AC, saves, important skill checks (spot, listen, maybe sense motive, etc), and any passive special abilities (like darkvision or low-light vision). That way you have all of the information on a handy sheet of paper and you can refer to it whenever you need to make any secret rolls or the like.
Useful.
Or perhaps maybe I could just record these permanently, then amend them as the characters gain levels?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Je ne suis pas fiere de ca
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
My tip: Roll for everything, try to make it realistic. You don't have to tell them either. This is why I have a beef with my DM, he doesn't let me roll for things that I want to do that is not part of his storyline.
For instance, we had to find a way inside a large pyramid-shaped castle covered in spikes. He said the only way inside was through the stairs in the pyramid, but I noticed that I could climb the spikes with my climbing kit and superior athletics. I rolled for it and made it, but he said "no, you have to fight everything." Needless to say, I was a bit annoyed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
um.
sup.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm DMing a campaign along with a friend, and a problem has been in play since we've started. Metagame thinking.
Because the racial traits of DM gives you a Charisma modifier of -50 when dealing with out-of-line players, I can't exactly convince my players not to participate in metagame thinking.
And basically, I was wondering, how do you get someone to roll a "Sense Motive" check against a shopkeeper, without them being like "NEVERMIND-I-DON'T-WANNA-BUY-THIS!" ?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
When they need to make the roll and I don't want them to know what they got or that they rolled, I roll for them and give them the result at the appropriate time.
Here's an example:
The party was walking through an abandoned castle, having just recovered a metal rune they were looking for.
What they didn't know is that 15 vampires were watching them from inside the rooms lining the hall, waiting to ambush them when they were far enough in the hall. I rolled a Listen check for the character with the highest modifier without her knowing it. She got a natural 20, so I told her she heard movement behind every door, and she warned the party. They proceeded to literally tear the castle apart with Earthquake, Meteor Swarm, and Disintegrate.
{Magic: The RPG}
If you have players that won't do that for you, then you could always do something like make secret rolls (consistently asking for their character sheet just for modifiers). Then you only tell them the information that their character gets.
To prevent them from being suspicious whenever you make a secret roll, you'll probably want to do that even when there's no information to get or when they're almost guaranteed to get the information anyway. That way they're really not sure what's going on and they learn to basically ignore the secret rolls except when they actually get some information off of them.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
I did try that secret roll once, but because I didn't have their sheets, I just reduced any bonuses they may have had. As a result, they failed the check, and the idea caex introduced came to me, as well. But some people are stupid and refuse to let me keep their sheets between only two sessions.
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
{Magic: The RPG}
Haha, I'll discuss it with him at our next DM meeting. Thank you
But yeah it's nice to know because while this one will be put on hold, I'm starting up another one with a smaller group of people.
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
What my DMs have done, which I think works quite well, is that before you start playing the first session with that set of characters you pass around a sheet of paper. Everyone writes their name (and maybe their character's name) along with AC, saves, important skill checks (spot, listen, maybe sense motive, etc), and any passive special abilities (like darkvision or low-light vision). That way you have all of the information on a handy sheet of paper and you can refer to it whenever you need to make any secret rolls or the like.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
Useful.
Or perhaps maybe I could just record these permanently, then amend them as the characters gain levels?
Vie qui veut me tuer
C'est magnifique etre sympathique
Mais je ne la connais jamais.
For instance, we had to find a way inside a large pyramid-shaped castle covered in spikes. He said the only way inside was through the stairs in the pyramid, but I noticed that I could climb the spikes with my climbing kit and superior athletics. I rolled for it and made it, but he said "no, you have to fight everything." Needless to say, I was a bit annoyed.
sup.