Gah this doesn't make sense. I don't see a world where both Grape and Hunt are scum. Two scum wouldn't both claim something protective right after one another, would they?
And they're voting AG together now.
I guess I can't convince you all to lynch Grape instead of Hunt?
Gah this doesn't make sense. I don't see a world where both Grape and Hunt are scum. Two scum wouldn't both claim something protective right after one another, would they?
And they're voting AG together now.
I guess I can't convince you all to lynch Grape instead of Hunt?
A compelling case would be an excellent start (unless you've already made one?).
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st (today!), at midnight EST - in 9 hours. If the deadline has passed without 9 votes on somebody, the day will end in a no lynch.
Gah this doesn't make sense. I don't see a world where both Grape and Hunt are scum. Two scum wouldn't both claim something protective right after one another, would they?
And they're voting AG together now.
I guess I can't convince you all to lynch Grape instead of Hunt?
A compelling case would be an excellent start (unless you've already made one?).
I have a weird feeling about Hunt. I don't think I want to go here today. When he is scum, he tends to be more defeatist at this stage and more aggro when town. Hunt also really showed the WIM on his pressure.
Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.
I dislike Hunt because his questions don't seem to really lead to reads, or at least not obviously. Also there's the buisiness of copying Rhand's list (not the problem), and forgetting to change the read on Kitbits Slot. That says something about the sincerity of the thing, IMO.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
...Fulcrum's 653 is frustratingly compelling, because either she's town and really sees something that we should heed, or she's scum, and I don't think scum would be trying to save a buddy like this, which would mean Hunt's town.
Unvote
@Fulcrum: Do you have the same concerns about lynching Grape? Because I do feel like one-shot bulletproof and one-shot tri-doctor have enough overlap to be questionable in the same setup. Eh...maybe it's possible. This is very frustrating.
I took another look at neighbor chat of Overwatch. Hunt indeed said this:
Quote from neighbor chat »
I'm waiting for ANYONE to actually come at me hard. I do the most damage when I can look at people's pushes on me, but no one is touching me with a ten foot pole. That is telling me a few things: Either the scum are saving me until endgame to twist into a lynch, or it's a team of newer players that don't know me well.
So at least he's telling the truth about that.
@Hunt: I also saw you say this:
Quote from neighbor chat »
I am wondering if Shadow is scum and scared to say BOO to me after I caught him dead to rights last game. But I will have to poke him to find out.
Which apparently was true. Can you go into more detail on your town read of Shadow this game? It looks to me like he (apart from RVS) took a long time to interact with you here as well?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Cheers. Assuming I'm around, we'll discuss this Tomorrow.
Cantrip: I am reading Grape as town on a gut level. While I agree with Rhand's case about some of Grape's logic being internally inconsistent, I don't think it's actually scummy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Cantrip I never considered Mind's claim a doc claim so it wasn't a conflict to me.
@Rhand Of course my claim is unprovable, that is just a fact. It's not like a RB or a vig where town can see the evidence. And I'm not saying who I'll cloak ahead of time for obvious reasons. You seem to have a problem with the fact that I like to use a lot of words. This is not the first time you have had a problem with me explaining something in detail.
Also from reading Overwatch you have a good knowledge of what is permissible in setups for balance. Do you view our abilities as a dichotomy?
@Rhand Of course my claim is unprovable, that is just a fact. It's not like a RB or a vig where town can see the evidence. And I'm not saying who I'll cloak ahead of time for obvious reasons. You seem to have a problem with the fact that I like to use a lot of words. This is not the first time you have had a problem with me explaining something in detail.
Also from reading Overwatch you have a good knowledge of what is permissible in setups for balance. Do you view our abilities as a dichotomy?
Did you forget you added that you cloak yourself now?
I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.
It's very easy to prove that. Anyone with a role that targets can test it. On you.
I don't think you're a dichotomy, no. I've said so in reply to Cyan.
@Rhand Of course my claim is unprovable, that is just a fact. It's not like a RB or a vig where town can see the evidence. And I'm not saying who I'll cloak ahead of time for obvious reasons. You seem to have a problem with the fact that I like to use a lot of words. This is not the first time you have had a problem with me explaining something in detail.
Also from reading Overwatch you have a good knowledge of what is permissible in setups for balance. Do you view our abilities as a dichotomy?
Did you forget you added that you cloak yourself now?
I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.
It's very easy to prove that. Anyone with a role that targets can test it. On you.
I don't think you're a dichotomy, no. I've said so in reply to Cyan.
You are implying the mafia can't pull shenanigans.
It's an interesting role, but as a 1-shot, it seems really niche on the town side, just going from a game point mechanic.
Would rather lynch AG over Grape tbh. Hunt I am moving to lean town after his response to claim. Best case, he has good reads and becomes a pain in the ass for the wolves to deal with.
I'd rather see AG hang than Hunt. Look at how the two have played it. Hunt is fighting and AG is just phoning it in. Take a look at AG's ISO, it's all pretty hollow.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
To be clear, the current plan is to lynch AG with no claim whatsoever(because we're super unlikely to get one before the deadline), as opposed to lynching Hunt.
Keeping in mind that, if AG is scum, Hunt is *incredibly* likely to also be scum, based on their interactions(specifically, Hunt's actions toward AG).
Come on, what the **** are you guys doing? I'm fully convinced that AG is scum, but this is a terrible idea right now.
@Cyan TELL ME WHY? I've been asking but no one wants to give me any sort of lead that would make me feel like I'm not just yololynching the biggest wagon at deadline.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ohhhhh. I am really dumb sometimes. That assumes they target me the night that I fire it off, but yeah. That is pretty provable.
Well then I am a provable PR. Why is anyone voting for me at this point?
Because I think you're lying through your teeth, Mr I don't want to lynch below the modline Day 1 but am voting AG anyways.
@GJ: The way he describes it, it sounds like something scum cannot interfere with? How do you interfere with untargetable?
Anyways, he's clearly making it up.
Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.
Why Cyan and Hunt?
Because I think there is likely one scum between them. I thought it was Hunt, but his claim and behaviour recently has given me pause.
Because I think you're lying through your teeth, Mr I don't want to lynch below the modline Day 1 but am voting AG anyways.
Of course I would rather compromise on principles than get myself lynched. Is that even a question? And between Fulcrum's posts and Huntz claim and subsequent behvaior I'm out of other options.
Are you so determined to lynch this one scum that you're not willing to wait a Day and see if they can confirm themselves? There's more than one scum in the game, dude.
I willing to switch to Terry. I'm basically only voting AG because he's the biggest counterwagon and I always find him scummy, so if it's going to be a shot in the dark, it might as well be him. Shrug. Grape and Hunt should be off the table for /Today/.
On a related note, do scum usually have daychat here?
Are you so determined to lynch this one scum that you're not willing to wait a Day and see if they can confirm themselves? There's more than one scum in the game, dude.
Proving that he can be untargetable for a night doesn't prove that he is town. The question mark is still gonna be there. And there are so many things that could go wrong, unless we have every person with a targeted role plan on targeting him, it's feasible that no one would actually target him. And if we have a targeted role claim, then scum just kills them, so in order to ensure we actually verify that he even has that ability, we have to take incredibly sub optimal actions, and even then it doesn't mean he's town. It's a one shot, so yeah, it's cool if it's real, but it's also not the end of the world if we lose it.
And they're voting AG together now.
I guess I can't convince you all to lynch Grape instead of Hunt?
How fun.
Will speed read in a bit.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The hunt lynch Today is foolish for mechanical reasons best left unexplained. Please reconsider.
A compelling case would be an excellent start (unless you've already made one?).
[7] Huntzilla - Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Gruffinchops, Rodemy, killjoy, Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx
[4] AtheistGod - Mindreaver, Huntzilla, Grapefruit21, fulcrum
[1] Grapefruit21 - Rhand
[1] Cyan - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] Bur - AtheistGod
[1] Mindreaver - quixotic72
Not Voting: Bur
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st (today!), at midnight EST - in 9 hours. If the deadline has passed without 9 votes on somebody, the day will end in a no lynch.
I did. #536 and the following conversation.
Unvote Hunt
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also, you should put your vote somewhere.
Why Cyan and Hunt?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Unvote
@Fulcrum: Do you have the same concerns about lynching Grape? Because I do feel like one-shot bulletproof and one-shot tri-doctor have enough overlap to be questionable in the same setup. Eh...maybe it's possible. This is very frustrating.
Also, why, specifically, are you voting AG?
I don't like this, I'm almost willing to settle for AG just because he's less likely to be a protective role.
unvote
Rhand, why doesn't Grape's claim give you pause?
So at least he's telling the truth about that.
@Hunt: I also saw you say this:
Which apparently was true. Can you go into more detail on your town read of Shadow this game? It looks to me like he (apart from RVS) took a long time to interact with you here as well?
Because he said in the same breath he claimed it that he cannot prove it. Which I think means he made it up.
I reread AG and weirdly I kinda liked what I saw? I don't recall cases made against him though.
If hunt is town, grape probably isn't.
Cantrip: I am reading Grape as town on a gut level. While I agree with Rhand's case about some of Grape's logic being internally inconsistent, I don't think it's actually scummy.
Someone link the cases or just tell me what I should be seeing here. I see nothing wrong here.
@Rhand Of course my claim is unprovable, that is just a fact. It's not like a RB or a vig where town can see the evidence. And I'm not saying who I'll cloak ahead of time for obvious reasons. You seem to have a problem with the fact that I like to use a lot of words. This is not the first time you have had a problem with me explaining something in detail.
Also from reading Overwatch you have a good knowledge of what is permissible in setups for balance. Do you view our abilities as a dichotomy?
@Killjoy can you expand on those other reasons?
Did you forget you added that you cloak yourself now?
It's very easy to prove that. Anyone with a role that targets can test it. On you.
I don't think you're a dichotomy, no. I've said so in reply to Cyan.
You are implying the mafia can't pull shenanigans.
It's an interesting role, but as a 1-shot, it seems really niche on the town side, just going from a game point mechanic.
Would rather lynch AG over Grape tbh. Hunt I am moving to lean town after his response to claim. Best case, he has good reads and becomes a pain in the ass for the wolves to deal with.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
UNVOTE, VOTE: AG
I repeat the request to see the case on him.
If the Grape wagon doesn't gain enough steam, I may end up voting for him just so we have a lynch to check for information.
@Grape: language and tone, mostly.
Keeping in mind that, if AG is scum, Hunt is *incredibly* likely to also be scum, based on their interactions(specifically, Hunt's actions toward AG).
Come on, what the **** are you guys doing? I'm fully convinced that AG is scum, but this is a terrible idea right now.
Well then I am a provable PR. Why is anyone voting for me at this point?
I don't like it, but there it is. Unvote, vote AG
Besides, all these wagons are making my head hurt.
Because I think you're lying through your teeth, Mr I don't want to lynch below the modline Day 1 but am voting AG anyways.
@GJ: The way he describes it, it sounds like something scum cannot interfere with? How do you interfere with untargetable?
Anyways, he's clearly making it up.
Full steam ahead on AG, I will go Grape to avoid NL. Not voting Hunt.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Because I think there is likely one scum between them. I thought it was Hunt, but his claim and behaviour recently has given me pause.
Of course I would rather compromise on principles than get myself lynched. Is that even a question? And between Fulcrum's posts and Huntz claim and subsequent behvaior I'm out of other options.
Vote Grapefruit21
Unvote I'm all for Hunt's lynch.
I'll claim if people want that.
Shadow and GJ have made more townie posts recently.
On a related note, do scum usually have daychat here?