@Bur consider is dropped to not be brought up again. My post was bring typed while yours was posted and I didn't see it to later. Heading out for now but I have responses to Shadows' post first and foremost being the part where I said I went through his Iso and felt a lot better about him after calling him scum by association. That was extending an olive branch.
@Bur consider is dropped to not be brought up again. My post was bring typed while yours was posted and I didn't see it to later. Heading out for now but I have responses to Shadows' post first and foremost being the part where I said I went through his Iso and felt a lot better about him after calling him scum by association. That was extending an olive branch.
I'll confess, I totally forgot you did that when I wrote my last post. Crap.
Okay, I think I just need to do a complete reread like I've been saying I'm gonna.
I kinda agree with AG's post asking where the scum are, I'm having trouble pinning anyone down as strong scum lean.
I don't know why Kwaan betrayed me. Even still, this event haunts my thoughts. He was the one who discovered me; he was the Terris philosopher who first called me the Hero of Ages. It seems ironically surreal that now--after his long struggle to convince his colleagues--he is the only major Terris holy man to preach against my reign.
@Rhand I’ve played 3 town games with Grape so far. Since I’ve never seen a scum game of his, feel free to take my meta reads with a grain of salt. I can’t be 100% sure until this wagon has progressed more, but for now I’m comfortable with calling this case town motivated.
@Shadow Why’s the “Oh you” pic your reason for townreading Cantrip? Do you think that scum!Cantrip is less likely to post that?
I enjoy pressure day one because a)gives me purpose and direction b) forces me to participate in dialogue, otherwise I limp through posting infrequently letting others do the work c) it's how I catch scum. I draw hate from both alignments, but looking at *****ty jumps on my wagon is how I can catch scum day one. It's been very reliable.
Plus, I love the bravado/joking posts. Nothing pisses people off like taunting. Once people get tilted, it becomes easier to read intentions
Okay, fair. Using engagement as a means to motivate yourself and form reads is plausible. Nonetheless, I am still not convinced that this is what you are doing. If this is how you’re approaching the game like you say, then what are your reads on everyone on your wagon? What are our intentions? (Grape/Cyan/GJ/Gruff)
I enjoy pressure day one because a)gives me purpose and direction b) forces me to participate in dialogue, otherwise I limp through posting infrequently letting others do the work c) it's how I catch scum. I draw hate from both alignments, but looking at *****ty jumps on my wagon is how I can catch scum day one. It's been very reliable.
Yeah right. The last time I saw you get wagoned Day 1(and I'm pretty sure you were town there), at no point did you 'enjoy the pressure'. You literally used 'I always get lynched day one' as a point to stop people from wagoning you.
That's your incorrect interpretation of it.
The truth us "I always get RUN UP day one" is a true statement, that I now use as part of my day one analysis.
@Rhand I’ve played 3 town games with Grape so far. Since I’ve never seen a scum game of his, feel free to take my meta reads with a grain of salt. I can’t be 100% sure until this wagon has progressed more, but for now I’m comfortable with calling this case town motivated.
@Shadow Why’s the “Oh you” pic your reason for townreading Cantrip? Do you think that scum!Cantrip is less likely to post that?
I enjoy pressure day one because a)gives me purpose and direction b) forces me to participate in dialogue, otherwise I limp through posting infrequently letting others do the work c) it's how I catch scum. I draw hate from both alignments, but looking at *****ty jumps on my wagon is how I can catch scum day one. It's been very reliable.
Plus, I love the bravado/joking posts. Nothing pisses people off like taunting. Once people get tilted, it becomes easier to read intentions
Okay, fair. Using engagement as a means to motivate yourself and form reads is plausible. Nonetheless, I am still not convinced that this is what you are doing. If this is how you’re approaching the game like you say, then what are your reads on everyone on your wagon? What are our intentions? (Grape/Cyan/GJ/Gruff)
First off, you are acting townie in your approach of getting me lynched. You actually are asking questions, not simply jumping to conclusions. (i.e., this question itself). I've got you lean town on my list. You've moved up considerably. Your intention, from what I am gathering, is that you are trying to actually determine my alignment.
Grape, I don't know well, but seems competent and engaged. I think he could be scum. I have no meta to analyze with him, but he isn't engaging me, so no way to move him up my list. I would be fine with his lynch today, and I think we could get some analysis out of it.
GJ is lazily voting me. He has been quick to point out that he has suspected me for a while now, but it doesn't feel strong. It feels like he's parking his vote simply to put it somewhere. After reading him over again, he was much more engaged than I first had thought. I don't trust that his laziness though is not malicious, and I wouldn't call him definitely town. He's null to town lean at best.
Cyan picked my name to just sit on for the day. His arguments aren't sound, and his read doesn't feel genuine. He is coming at every interaction from the place of "Hunt scum 100%" and not trying to actually read me, or discern my alignment. He's definitely the crap push on my wagon and the scum on it.
There’s a lot of townreads and defending those townreads. I find this style of posting to be fairly safe, and (intentional or not) geared towards not attracting much attention. His posts are lowkey to the extent that I can’t decipher what the intent behind them is. Lack of direction may be contributing to this as suggested by his most recent post.
I like GJ's response to my question. God damn, where are the scum.
Someone point out anything scummy.
You seem to be a little lost. How about starting with reading Huntz or Grape's ISO and taking a stance on the cases against them? Which points hold up?
'Cyan picked my name to just sit on for the day' says Hunt. Nevermind that I voted 2? people before you, and literally got criticized by people for moving away from voting Mindreaver. And then I only moved my vote from AG to you because if one of you is scum, the other certainly is as well, so it really doesn't matter.
@Gruffin: To clarify, it's not the reason I'm townreading Cantrip, it's the thing that pushes him into a top slot behaviorally, because overall he's been solidly townie anyway. The reason I liked it is kind of silly, but back in Lights Out 2 Mafia, we had a moment where we discussed how difficult it was going to be for us to be truly confident in each other as town, and I feel like that "Oh You" pic was basically Cantrip reassuring me, "It's okay shadow, I really am town this time." Like I said, it should clear up for sure as the game progresses, but I trust Cantrip.
I really dislike Hunt's 526. The progression in it doesn't feel natural. Also the level of scumread he has here seems like he would have had those scumreads.
Rhand is tunneling, but I like his pressure on Grape.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I know I can't read you, so I'm happy that I got a read on Kitbits before you replaced into that slot.
Knowing you cant read me, how do you feel about hunts townclear of me?
He probably can read you? I see nothing malicious there.
---
Re: what Bur said about his meta: I cannot imagine that town!Grape would pursue this line of play, knowing that it could burn out another town player if it works, and apparently net nothing if it doesn’t.
For me, Grape should be the lynch of the Day. I would be ok with AG. I’m not voting Hunt.
Deadline is approaching. Everyone should commit to one of the leading wagons or give a good reason not to.
I really dislike Hunt's 526. The progression in it doesn't feel natural. Also the level of scumread he has here seems like he would have had those scumreads.
Rhand is tunneling, but I like his pressure on Grape.
Is Hunt/Grape/AG a thing? It might be a thing.
How is putting pressure on someone you think is scum tunneling?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Since i haven't reaad too much of the game past page 2 i am gonna go with this:
I iso'd Hunt. Lets see what i found.
Early game he goes after Mind. Even points out one of the people he is deflecting to is Cyan. Okay. (#189)
then we have #268. He says kitbits posts align with his view of the game.. minus the Mindreaver shrugoff.. GJ's posts are pinging him yada yada.
Yet mindreavers read of GJ is based off of Kit thinking Mind was town and GJ hopping on to White Knight.. so how can they align with Hunts views when hunt thinks mind is scum? says he needs more time about GJ... yet..
Nothing about GJ, no questions to him, no analysis of him.. nothing. Just: I agree with Kit on this.
Hunt, you haven't even mentioned GJ. in any post since. Yet you made an effort to point out you agre with hit on his views of him (minus the mindreaver bit.. which kinda still doesn't make since to me.)
THEN IN 490 YOU VOTE HIM AND SAY YOU WANNA KEEP QUIET ON THOUGHTS ON HIM..
MUTHA TRUCKER YOU ARE ALREADY DOING THAT.
(#525) he said he iso'd Gj and said he looked better. Still, nothing on why.
#526 doesn't read like you find cyan scummy.. at all...
Also, said he agreed with Kits town reads (remember how before he said he agreed with everything but the mindreaver read? Yeah.. where did that go?)
In fact he was pressured for an AG read i assume from the context.. and said in 522 he has no read on him..
Then in #526 he makes an entire list on why ag is scum.. and votes him? What?
And it was all in reaction to CYAN... who he thinks is scum on his wagon.. but took his vote of him to vote AG and that read seems super forced for obv reasons.
So.. Cyan are you scum with Hunt? I think you are scum with hunt...
._. so there is my hunt read. Sorry i called him town initially.. but yeah.
Unvote vote huntzilla
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Yet mindreavers read of GJ is based off of Kit thinking Mind was town and GJ hopping on to White Knight.. so how can they align with Hunts views when hunt thinks mind is scum? says he needs more time about GJ... yet..
I read this again and have no ******* clue what the hell i was saying. God damnit i shouldn't have had 3 cups of coffee before typing this.... BUT THE POINT STANDS THAT HIS AGREEANCE WITH KIT WAS OFF.
Hunt agrees with the GJ read. Kits GJ read was based off him thinking Mind was town. Hunt thought Mind was scum.So how can he agree with that GJ read?
okay. *passes out*
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That doesn't mean you're not tunneling. It looks like you're approaching it from the idea that he's scum and trying to figure out why what he's done comes from a scum perspective.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Since i haven't reaad too much of the game past page 2 i am gonna go with this:
I iso'd Hunt. Lets see what i found.
Early game he goes after Mind. Even points out one of the people he is deflecting to is Cyan. Okay. (#189)
then we have #268. He says kitbits posts align with his view of the game.. minus the Mindreaver shrugoff.. GJ's posts are pinging him yada yada.
Yet mindreavers read of GJ is based off of Kit thinking Mind was town and GJ hopping on to White Knight.. so how can they align with Hunts views when hunt thinks mind is scum? says he needs more time about GJ... yet..
Nothing about GJ, no questions to him, no analysis of him.. nothing. Just: I agree with Kit on this.
Hunt, you haven't even mentioned GJ. in any post since. Yet you made an effort to point out you agre with hit on his views of him (minus the mindreaver bit.. which kinda still doesn't make since to me.)
THEN IN 490 YOU VOTE HIM AND SAY YOU WANNA KEEP QUIET ON THOUGHTS ON HIM..
MUTHA TRUCKER YOU ARE ALREADY DOING THAT.
(#525) he said he iso'd Gj and said he looked better. Still, nothing on why.
#526 doesn't read like you find cyan scummy.. at all...
Also, said he agreed with Kits town reads (remember how before he said he agreed with everything but the mindreaver read? Yeah.. where did that go?)
In fact he was pressured for an AG read i assume from the context.. and said in 522 he has no read on him..
Then in #526 he makes an entire list on why ag is scum.. and votes him? What?
And it was all in reaction to CYAN... who he thinks is scum on his wagon.. but took his vote of him to vote AG and that read seems super forced for obv reasons.
So.. Cyan are you scum with Hunt? I think you are scum with hunt...
._. so there is my hunt read. Sorry i called him town initially.. but yeah.
Unvote vote huntzilla
So you think that Hunt is scum, and he named one person that could be scum on his wagon, and it was..his scumbuddy.
Sure thing.
This will all work itself out anyway. If Hunt and AG are both scum, as I suspect, I am just going to get NKed long before I can get lynched anyway. So that's fine. Hunt first though.
Oh, and then he immediately gave up on the plan of 'make myself look better by moving my vote to the person my target was just voting' instead, while also accusing me of bussing that person too.
@Gruffin: To clarify, it's not the reason I'm townreading Cantrip, it's the thing that pushes him into a top slot behaviorally, because overall he's been solidly townie anyway. The reason I liked it is kind of silly, but back in Lights Out 2 Mafia, we had a moment where we discussed how difficult it was going to be for us to be truly confident in each other as town, and I feel like that "Oh You" pic was basically Cantrip reassuring me, "It's okay shadow, I really am town this time." Like I said, it should clear up for sure as the game progresses, but I trust Cantrip.
I'm still not clear on how this is AI?
@Killjoy (Apologies, I forgot to @ mention you in my last post)
Could you answer my question to you in 520?
So you think that Hunt is scum, and he named one person that could be scum on his wagon, and it was..his scumbuddy.
Sure thing.
This will all work itself out anyway. If Hunt and AG are both scum, as I suspect, I am just going to get NKed long before I can get lynched anyway. So that's fine. Hunt first though.
I mean...He's one of the top wagons, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some distancing going on if he's scum. What about his other reads in 557?
I mean...He's one of the top wagons, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some distancing going on if he's scum. What about his other reads in 557?
As for his other reads. If he is scum, you're probably not. I don't see scum Hunt just directly calling a scumbuddy town. If one of the 3 people there HAS to be scum(and I don't necessarily think they do), it's Grape.
@Killjoy you mean as town you wouldn't want to read the opinions of another confirmed town set of eyes? I love to reread townies who flip to see where their mind was at, as a replacement you get to do that without a flip. Seems like throwing away useful information not to reread as both alignments
...then read other games.
Like, when I replace in or whatever, I like to get caught up as soon as possible.
Also, this feels like something you think a townie would say in this situation, as opposed to something you do in practice.
@Gruffin: To clarify, it's not the reason I'm townreading Cantrip, it's the thing that pushes him into a top slot behaviorally, because overall he's been solidly townie anyway. The reason I liked it is kind of silly, but back in Lights Out 2 Mafia, we had a moment where we discussed how difficult it was going to be for us to be truly confident in each other as town, and I feel like that "Oh You" pic was basically Cantrip reassuring me, "It's okay shadow, I really am town this time." Like I said, it should clear up for sure as the game progresses, but I trust Cantrip.
I'm still not clear on how this is AI?
@Killjoy (Apologies, I forgot to @ mention you in my last post)
Could you answer my question to you in 520?
So you think that Hunt is scum, and he named one person that could be scum on his wagon, and it was..his scumbuddy.
Sure thing.
This will all work itself out anyway. If Hunt and AG are both scum, as I suspect, I am just going to get NKed long before I can get lynched anyway. So that's fine. Hunt first though.
I mean...He's one of the top wagons, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some distancing going on if he's scum. What about his other reads in 557?
Ah, sorry I missed that I guess.
It's not a question of townies 'wouldn't' be bloodthirsty, it's just that it's something enthusiastic scum do. So I noted it.
Also worth noting here, if I haven't already, is that Mind/Terry are probably not a world.
And I'm not sure I understand what you're saying there: Are you saying you avoided the wagon because it started on the scumslip thing?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.
2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.
Vote Huntzilla.
Inb4 OMGUS
Hi. Explaining your thought process with more than just the word telling is really helpful for convincing people (including slowpokes who aren't caught up) /and/ helping people read you. It's a win-win.
My thought process is that I have been pretty vocal about reading most of the active voices as town or town leaning. Kit and one other low postser were also in my town lean town pile, so when Hunt said I was ok with lynching anyone, it felt like a really bad misrep.
AG is also a wolf read, and I read Hunt's interaction as being weird because hunt wanted to see where that wagon went before he biuddied/distanced.
I like GJ's response to my question. God damn, where are the scum.
That would be an awful waste of a D1 lynch. We need those sweet, sweet interactions later on and honestly I’m disliking this adovation for lynching below the mod line on D1.
I think most of the active voices are town, and the posts made by those people have been less than satisfactory. Like, it's not for low content. It's for the content that has been given is < town rand.
I admit, the Hunt vote on AG does have me a bit baffled. That feels like a very weird spot to distance a buddy.
Rhands 532 makes me feel pretty safe about him being town.
I didn't read the full Grape case (didn't click the spoiler) but I liked where it was at, and would feel better if there was at least one active voice in the wolves. Will ISO myself and read Rhands case in more detail likely later today.
Many think that my journey started in Khlennium, that great city of wonder. They forget that I was no king when my quest began. Far from it.
I think it would do men well to remember that this task was not begun by emperors, priests, prophets, or generals. It didn't start in Khlennium or Kordel, nor did it come from the great nations to the east or the fiery empire of the West.
It began in a small, unimportant town whose name would mean nothing to you. It began with a youth, the son of a blacksmith, who was unremarkable in every way--except, perhaps, in his ability to get into trouble.
@Shadow Your behavioral town list tracks pretty well with what I'm feeling too I currently have TRJST as my third but I agree on the first two. So we disagree there, but I feel pretty good about him. I really liked his entrance so I may be stuck on that, but for now I'm happy. I'm much less confident in Cantrip but I would have him very close to my town lean group of logic/Qui, GJ, and Cyan (who is creeping up my town list). It probably would be cantrip, but much much lower confidence than Rodemy or Gruffin. None of this seems outside his scum range to me.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
Feel free to unvote anytime, and move onto AG or Cyan.
Eh that’s quite the opposite claim of what I was expecting.
I was reading Hunt as a strong PR that was trying to hide, much like in Overwatch.
But as BP he should play the exact opposite way, trying to draw the NK.
I’m going to re-read Hunt again.
@Grapefruit: Go into specifics with your Logic/quixotic town read, that doesn't track so far to me.
Additionally, you say you think there is one wolf in quix, GJ, bur, and Fulcrum, but you have both quix and GJ in your townlean. Where do you pull that specific grouping from?
_________________________________________________
Hunt, your claim surprises me; how much of your play today has been intentionally cagey?
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@Rhand: that game looked like it coincided with some rough irl stuff, you don't have another scum game near the same time do you? That was already fairly long ago, if it goes much farther back don't worry about it, I doubt I'll see what I'm looking for.
Once my cruise season starts, my activity will drop immensely. It's something I'll always have, and it impacts my play bigtime.
That's what you'll see in most of my games.
The winterstop is almost over. The season starts again March 31st.
Two PR claims. One bulletproof, and one proveable unknown. This is pretty much Hunt or Grape at this stage. Do we really want to try another rock and take a risk? I admit, I am hesitating on Hunt a bit as he did the same thing in Starcraft where he slanked all fricken day and then turned it up under pressure where I think in his wolf games, he stays slanky under pressure.
@Gruffin: Usually it wouldn't be, but the circumstances surrounding it make it much more likely to be a town!cantrip response than a scum!cantrip response. It's cheeky in a way that pleases me, and I'm willing to defer the worry about him until it becomes relevant to do so (i.e. Mass claim, night action info, LyLo, etc)
You're quick to jump on people. I understand the what's suspicious part, but why add the "Your own post is also an RVS post with no vote."? He did vote in his first RVS post.
Sounds like mudslinging to me.
You misunderstand me. I am aware Grape made a vote, and so did almost everyone who had "made posts with no vote" in the thread. I never once said Grape did not vote, nor did I say there was anything scummy about his post. I'm only asking Grape to clarify his statement and offering a counter that he made a non-vote post and therefore it is not necessarily scummy.
If grape was talking about players not voting, he should have said that rather than saying, specifically "posts without votes" but then the only person I saw that posted and did not vote was GJ so I still don't get where he's coming from.
You're the one quick to jump on me.
Kitbits seems ... overly rigid? Like he's falling back on formal language to hide his alignment. I think I would have voted for him where I in the game at this point.
Watching Get Out. We'll be on later. I do like that you have an active voice. Need to hear more people
Bluh. Fence sitty. Though the continued narration of his day makes it more likely a playstyle thing and less likely to be a self-conscious mafia thing.
I'm feeling slightly town on Bur, on tone. I don't agree with the train reasoning. Could all be town- then it wouldn't make a difference if Bur was scum or town since the voters wouldn't know.
GJ's easy town reads feel suspicious. Shadow's hesitation to agree with a town read on me is more practical. GJ's town read on Bur seems faulty as well as I've stated above. Interested to see a reply to Gruffin's question regarding the voters.
I'm not feeling good about Rhand misinterpreting me but it may not have been scum motive and he hasn't even replied so I'll let it be.
I could go either way with Shadow, but so far I can understand his thought processes.
Liking kitbits more off this, mostly because I agree with or at least find the thought processes reasonable. Backing off on Rhand also feels like a townie trying to think instead of tunneling.
Bur's train didn't feel like anyone pushing for a lynch but that doesn't bean there couldn't be scum on the train.
Hunt and Shadow's interactions does not seem like aligned pair. I get the feeling they're trying to figure one another out. T/T or T/S?
"Figure one another out," if true, inherently means T/T. Do you really feel they're trying to figure one another out, or do you feel one is trying to figure the other out and the other is trying to pocket them/pretend to figure them out?
I'd say it feels more like they are trying to figure one another out. Shadow more than Hunt to this point. I could see the potential for a pocket in this interaction but I'm not seeing either as scummy as this point.
"At this point" is an unnecessary hedging on the read, leaving an out. Dislike.
Our early banter was awful and I don't like his response to Gruffin in 81. I also think town!Bur would have reacted to having 3 votes even if they're RVS votes. I don't like completely ignoring it.
Colder take Rhand is town despite the over-explaining in 34.
I don't think (?) Grapefruit is the type to go against a pretty consensus town read as scum. Would appreciate anyone who knows them better commenting on this.
I don't know why, but I don't believe this claim. Vote Stands.
Also, it'd be a great way for your scum team to get rid of a BP right?
Anyways, I was about to get behind the Hunt lynch, but the claim has me feeling a bit hesitant. I'll reread him with the claim in mind.
I'm not feeling confident on a Grapefruit lynch and I'd prefer a Cyan lynch or an AG lynch.
This is not how a scum mindset works when it comes to players like Huntzilla.
And come on, his behavior makes no sense. Nobody opens their role PM, sees 'Town Bulletproof' and immediatedly thinks to themselves, "I'm going to act in such a fashion that ensures I get wagoned and have to claim, thus removing all utility from my role'. That is nonsense.
@Shadow Your behavioral town list tracks pretty well with what I'm feeling too I currently have TRJST as my third but I agree on the first two. So we disagree there, but I feel pretty good about him. I really liked his entrance so I may be stuck on that, but for now I'm happy. I'm much less confident in Cantrip but I would have him very close to my town lean group of logic/Qui, GJ, and Cyan (who is creeping up my town list). It probably would be cantrip, but much much lower confidence than Rodemy or Gruffin. None of this seems outside his scum range to me.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
IDK if it's the same for everyone but for me it gets a bit overwhelming. Lots of info in a short space of time with everyone waiting for you to do something etc.
If your actual interest is seeing what a conf!town is doing in a game, reading other games can provide several, since the game is over and everyone's alignments are revealed.
Two PR claims. One bulletproof, and one proveable unknown. This is pretty much Hunt or Grape at this stage. Do we really want to try another rock and take a risk? I admit, I am hesitating on Hunt a bit as he did the same thing in Starcraft where he slanked all fricken day and then turned it up under pressure where I think in his wolf games, he stays slanky under pressure.
Ehhhhhh
I dislike this post. It reads as really scummy.
Deadline is tomorrow, and Hunt didn't answer me. His progression doesn't makes sense re: His vote.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I go to sleep for a weekend, and we're off AG? Did he ever come back? I must be missing something.
If guess if my choices at the end of today are Hunt or Grape, I'd be more interested in going after Grape, just based on those wagons.
Is there a good post detailing the Hunt/AG connection I can look at? That's probably the only way I'm voting hunt, if I can be convinced they are a team.
Okay, I think I just need to do a complete reread like I've been saying I'm gonna.
I kinda agree with AG's post asking where the scum are, I'm having trouble pinning anyone down as strong scum lean.
Vote Count 1.15 (9 to lynch)
[4] Huntzilla - Grapefruit21, Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Gruffinchops
[4] Grapefruit21 - Rodemy, shadowlancerx, killjoy, Rhand
[2] AtheistGod - Mindreaver, Huntzilla
[1] Cyan - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] Bur - AtheistGod
[1] Mindreaver - quixotic72
Not Voting: fulcrum, Bur, Cantripmancer
quixotic is V/LA for this week.
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st.
@Shadow Why’s the “Oh you” pic your reason for townreading Cantrip? Do you think that scum!Cantrip is less likely to post that?
Okay, fair. Using engagement as a means to motivate yourself and form reads is plausible. Nonetheless, I am still not convinced that this is what you are doing. If this is how you’re approaching the game like you say, then what are your reads on everyone on your wagon? What are our intentions? (Grape/Cyan/GJ/Gruff)
After reading, I'm thinking Cyan.
The truth us "I always get RUN UP day one" is a true statement, that I now use as part of my day one analysis.
Grape, I don't know well, but seems competent and engaged. I think he could be scum. I have no meta to analyze with him, but he isn't engaging me, so no way to move him up my list. I would be fine with his lynch today, and I think we could get some analysis out of it.
GJ is lazily voting me. He has been quick to point out that he has suspected me for a while now, but it doesn't feel strong. It feels like he's parking his vote simply to put it somewhere. After reading him over again, he was much more engaged than I first had thought. I don't trust that his laziness though is not malicious, and I wouldn't call him definitely town. He's null to town lean at best.
Cyan picked my name to just sit on for the day. His arguments aren't sound, and his read doesn't feel genuine. He is coming at every interaction from the place of "Hunt scum 100%" and not trying to actually read me, or discern my alignment. He's definitely the crap push on my wagon and the scum on it.
Hope that helped.
There’s a lot of townreads and defending those townreads. I find this style of posting to be fairly safe, and (intentional or not) geared towards not attracting much attention. His posts are lowkey to the extent that I can’t decipher what the intent behind them is. Lack of direction may be contributing to this as suggested by his most recent post.
You seem to be a little lost. How about starting with reading Huntz or Grape's ISO and taking a stance on the cases against them? Which points hold up?
You are completely flailing here.
Rhand is tunneling, but I like his pressure on Grape.
Is Hunt/Grape/AG a thing? It might be a thing.
I don't know about Grape, but Hunt/AG is definitely a thing.
He probably can read you? I see nothing malicious there.
---
Re: what Bur said about his meta: I cannot imagine that town!Grape would pursue this line of play, knowing that it could burn out another town player if it works, and apparently net nothing if it doesn’t.
For me, Grape should be the lynch of the Day. I would be ok with AG. I’m not voting Hunt.
Deadline is approaching. Everyone should commit to one of the leading wagons or give a good reason not to.
---
@Shadow: My most recent scum game is Predator Mafia I think.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/626616-season-1-round-5-predator-mafia-game-over-arnold
How is putting pressure on someone you think is scum tunneling?
It seems like you're seeing EVERYTHING he does as scummy.
Anyways, it's a weird remark you made there. Doesn't make me feel any better about you.
Since i haven't reaad too much of the game past page 2 i am gonna go with this:
I iso'd Hunt. Lets see what i found.
Early game he goes after Mind. Even points out one of the people he is deflecting to is Cyan. Okay. (#189)
then we have #268. He says kitbits posts align with his view of the game.. minus the Mindreaver shrugoff.. GJ's posts are pinging him yada yada.
Yet mindreavers read of GJ is based off of Kit thinking Mind was town and GJ hopping on to White Knight.. so how can they align with Hunts views when hunt thinks mind is scum? says he needs more time about GJ... yet..
Nothing about GJ, no questions to him, no analysis of him.. nothing. Just: I agree with Kit on this.
Hunt, you haven't even mentioned GJ. in any post since. Yet you made an effort to point out you agre with hit on his views of him (minus the mindreaver bit.. which kinda still doesn't make since to me.)
THEN IN 490 YOU VOTE HIM AND SAY YOU WANNA KEEP QUIET ON THOUGHTS ON HIM..
MUTHA TRUCKER YOU ARE ALREADY DOING THAT.
(#525) he said he iso'd Gj and said he looked better. Still, nothing on why.
#526 doesn't read like you find cyan scummy.. at all...
Also, said he agreed with Kits town reads (remember how before he said he agreed with everything but the mindreaver read? Yeah.. where did that go?)
In fact he was pressured for an AG read i assume from the context.. and said in 522 he has no read on him..
Then in #526 he makes an entire list on why ag is scum.. and votes him? What?
And it was all in reaction to CYAN... who he thinks is scum on his wagon.. but took his vote of him to vote AG and that read seems super forced for obv reasons.
So.. Cyan are you scum with Hunt? I think you are scum with hunt...
._. so there is my hunt read. Sorry i called him town initially.. but yeah.
Unvote vote huntzilla
I read this again and have no ******* clue what the hell i was saying. God damnit i shouldn't have had 3 cups of coffee before typing this.... BUT THE POINT STANDS THAT HIS AGREEANCE WITH KIT WAS OFF.
Hunt agrees with the GJ read. Kits GJ read was based off him thinking Mind was town. Hunt thought Mind was scum.So how can he agree with that GJ read?
okay. *passes out*
So you think that Hunt is scum, and he named one person that could be scum on his wagon, and it was..his scumbuddy.
Sure thing.
This will all work itself out anyway. If Hunt and AG are both scum, as I suspect, I am just going to get NKed long before I can get lynched anyway. So that's fine. Hunt first though.
Like..come on Rodemy.
@Killjoy (Apologies, I forgot to @ mention you in my last post)
Could you answer my question to you in 520?
I mean...He's one of the top wagons, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some distancing going on if he's scum. What about his other reads in 557?
As for his other reads. If he is scum, you're probably not. I don't see scum Hunt just directly calling a scumbuddy town. If one of the 3 people there HAS to be scum(and I don't necessarily think they do), it's Grape.
...then read other games.
Like, when I replace in or whatever, I like to get caught up as soon as possible.
Also, this feels like something you think a townie would say in this situation, as opposed to something you do in practice.
Ah, sorry I missed that I guess.
It's not a question of townies 'wouldn't' be bloodthirsty, it's just that it's something enthusiastic scum do. So I noted it.
Also worth noting here, if I haven't already, is that Mind/Terry are probably not a world.
And I'm not sure I understand what you're saying there: Are you saying you avoided the wagon because it started on the scumslip thing?
I'm Ham, town bulletproof.
Feel free to unvote anytime, and move onto AG or Cyan.
Uh huh.
I actually believe you.
I just don't think it makes you town.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My thought process is that I have been pretty vocal about reading most of the active voices as town or town leaning. Kit and one other low postser were also in my town lean town pile, so when Hunt said I was ok with lynching anyone, it felt like a really bad misrep.
AG is also a wolf read, and I read Hunt's interaction as being weird because hunt wanted to see where that wagon went before he biuddied/distanced.
Well, who are the town?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I think most of the active voices are town, and the posts made by those people have been less than satisfactory. Like, it's not for low content. It's for the content that has been given is < town rand.
I admit, the Hunt vote on AG does have me a bit baffled. That feels like a very weird spot to distance a buddy.
Rhands 532 makes me feel pretty safe about him being town.
I didn't read the full Grape case (didn't click the spoiler) but I liked where it was at, and would feel better if there was at least one active voice in the wolves. Will ISO myself and read Rhands case in more detail likely later today.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I think it would do men well to remember that this task was not begun by emperors, priests, prophets, or generals. It didn't start in Khlennium or Kordel, nor did it come from the great nations to the east or the fiery empire of the West.
It began in a small, unimportant town whose name would mean nothing to you. It began with a youth, the son of a blacksmith, who was unremarkable in every way--except, perhaps, in his ability to get into trouble.
It began with me.
Vote Count 1.16 (9 to lynch)
[5] Huntzilla - Grapefruit21, Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Gruffinchops, Rodemy
[3] Grapefruit21 - shadowlancerx, killjoy, Rhand
[2] AtheistGod - Mindreaver, Huntzilla
[1] Cyan - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] Bur - AtheistGod
[1] Mindreaver - quixotic72
Not Voting: fulcrum, Bur, Cantripmancer
quixotic is V/LA for this week.
Mindreaver, JoeTerry, Cantripmancer, AtheistGod, and fulcrum have been prodded.
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st, at midnight EST. If the deadline has passed without 9 votes on somebody, the day will end in a no lynch.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
Eh that’s quite the opposite claim of what I was expecting.
I was reading Hunt as a strong PR that was trying to hide, much like in Overwatch.
But as BP he should play the exact opposite way, trying to draw the NK.
I’m going to re-read Hunt again.
Can you provide a full t/s with reasonings?
Either this game is in ez mode or I ****ed up.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Additionally, you say you think there is one wolf in quix, GJ, bur, and Fulcrum, but you have both quix and GJ in your townlean. Where do you pull that specific grouping from?
_________________________________________________
Hunt, your claim surprises me; how much of your play today has been intentionally cagey?
_________________________________________________
@Rhand: that game looked like it coincided with some rough irl stuff, you don't have another scum game near the same time do you? That was already fairly long ago, if it goes much farther back don't worry about it, I doubt I'll see what I'm looking for.
Once my cruise season starts, my activity will drop immensely. It's something I'll always have, and it impacts my play bigtime.
That's what you'll see in most of my games.
The winterstop is almost over. The season starts again March 31st.
Ehhhhhh
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Shadow feels different from overwatch, where he was scum. Light town read.
Reminder to self to think about this later.
Kitbits seems ... overly rigid? Like he's falling back on formal language to hide his alignment. I think I would have voted for him where I in the game at this point.
1. Focusing on neutrals.
2. Apologizing for behavior that doesn't need to be excused.
Hello scum.
<3.
Bur is so town, jesus.
Bluh. Fence sitty. Though the continued narration of his day makes it more likely a playstyle thing and less likely to be a self-conscious mafia thing.
Liking kitbits more off this, mostly because I agree with or at least find the thought processes reasonable. Backing off on Rhand also feels like a townie trying to think instead of tunneling.
"At this point" is an unnecessary hedging on the read, leaving an out. Dislike.
I don't think (?) Grapefruit is the type to go against a pretty consensus town read as scum. Would appreciate anyone who knows them better commenting on this.
Digging Rhand's GJ vote.
Bur
Shadowlancer
Grapefruit
Kitbits
Rhand
Everyone else
Gentleman Johnny
Anyways, I was about to get behind the Hunt lynch, but the claim has me feeling a bit hesitant. I'll reread him with the claim in mind.
I'm not feeling confident on a Grapefruit lynch and I'd prefer a Cyan lynch or an AG lynch.
This is not how a scum mindset works when it comes to players like Huntzilla.
And come on, his behavior makes no sense. Nobody opens their role PM, sees 'Town Bulletproof' and immediatedly thinks to themselves, "I'm going to act in such a fashion that ensures I get wagoned and have to claim, thus removing all utility from my role'. That is nonsense.
IDK if it's the same for everyone but for me it gets a bit overwhelming. Lots of info in a short space of time with everyone waiting for you to do something etc.
If your actual interest is seeing what a conf!town is doing in a game, reading other games can provide several, since the game is over and everyone's alignments are revealed.
I dislike this post. It reads as really scummy.
Deadline is tomorrow, and Hunt didn't answer me. His progression doesn't makes sense re: His vote.
Hunt is a fine lynch today. Vote Huntzilla
If guess if my choices at the end of today are Hunt or Grape, I'd be more interested in going after Grape, just based on those wagons.
Is there a good post detailing the Hunt/AG connection I can look at? That's probably the only way I'm voting hunt, if I can be convinced they are a team.
Ugh. This claim hurts my brains. I doubt Huntz is scum bulletproof, so either he's town or he's lying...
*sigh* I guess I need to ISO him, I'll be back soon.
Let's save this for some another time, okay?
Cyans reply was gross.
And hunts claim is equally gross.