KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy Shadowlancerx - While reading his posts didn't make THAT much of an imprssion on me, so I basically had him null. Then he claimed scum and now he's town!
Let me explain my approach to entering the game here: I started by asking some specific players if they would claim scum. I wanted reactions. Only Cyan and Huntz did. Neither made an impression.
So when I figured no one else would do it, I opened it up. This time I was looking the first reaction. I would decide how I felt about it when it was made. So in comes shadow with his yoloscumclaim. Actual scum, I do not think, would just claim "I'm scum" in such a reactionary way. So, I gave him a "probably Town" cookie. Then (and here's the kicker), he says that he was expecting that is what I was doing, and was expecting that result, and asked if I am still townreading him knowing that. Now, there are a bunch of ways a scum would react to being pocketed by a townie so that everyone else in the game doesn't think he's just accepting it like a scum would be apt to do. Asking said town to reevaluate their read is very distinctly not one of them. Additionally, it poses the risk of losing the pocket, another thing the scum distinctly does not want.
So, for that reason, I strongly think shadow is town. His reaction just... wasn't scum.
Gruffinchops - Through general tone and good questions, I've liked where her head is at. Also the Daychat thing gives me very strong town impressions. Rhand - Rhand is being Rhand. He appears to be in Rhand-solves-the-game mode. I really wanna just pocket him and call it a day but I'm not sure if that's a dangerous thing to do. Maybe tunneling.
Note: Dislike 325. Mindreaver's list and the one in the spoiler are quite different (like the one in the spoiler is actually waffly), and his analysis of it is overly aggressive, and a little unfair. It doesn't SCREAM scum, is what I'm saying. And "probably", Rhand? Really? Cantripmancer - Similar to Rhand, he's asking pertinent questions and making observations. Kitbits - Very similar to my read on Gruffinchops, just less strong. Gentleman Johnny- GJ is in lazy mode. Once he gets going I think maybe he'll become more clear to me. Bur - Bur is Bur. Bur is null. Bur is life. Also Bur hasn't posted much. quixotic72 - Literally forgot he was in the game. Barely remember anything Logic did, but I think there was nothing that stuck out as alignment-indicative. Cyan - Has a bit of a slow start, but it's early. Cyan doesn't get caught D1 usually. You have to wait a bit. Cyan hasn't really started doing scum!Cyan things yet. Cythare - has posted nothing. Huntzilla - Hunt is always scummy to me, so he's null till I figure out if he's scum or not. AtheistGod - He hasn't done much, but there's something off about 231, It's vague and non-commital. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - I really dislike how he followed Mind onto Gruffin in such an aggressive fashion. Bloodthirsty, like Mind. Nothing else really stuck out. Mindreaver - His tone and attitude just... doesn't seem town to me, as a whole. I really dislike his vote on Gruffin in 136 for the Daychat slip... it feels... bloodthirsty? Like OOOH TOWN MISTAKE MUST CASH IN as opposed to town who would take a breath and try to figure out if it actually WAS a slip before jumping on it. I also dislike the tone of 217 because it feels more coming from a "Hey, that's unfair!", defensive POV instead of something more analytical.
Note: Mind and Cantrip very likely unaligned.
Also note: two of his townreads are scum to me right now. Grapefruit21 - I really dislike post 188 because he concludes that his posting comes from a townie mindset, he thinks... but the post before it, 162, he had said if the deadline were in 24 hours, among his preferred lynches was GJ. Which would be fine if there was some indication that he had reconsidered his read or something while writing, but there's nothing in 188 that says that. I think it's a fake townread on GJ.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
After reading through Mindreaver, I'm not convinced he's scum. This feels to be genuine frustration. I didn't like that Shadow pushed him around so easily regarding his unvote of Gruffin. Not so much anything that Shadow did wrong more so the fact that Mindreaver, was just like, "Ok I'll unvote, if you leave me alone."
Anyways, to clarify... I feel like overall he reads frustrated town to me, but there were still a couple of marks on his record. I also feel the same way he does about my vote on Gruffin. I wanted to bring attention to something I saw and the best way to do that and have it taken seriously is with a vote. Gruffin is in no danger of being lynched today and my vote on him doesn't really matter until we get closer to the deadline and I need to put my signature on a lynch candidate going into the night.
Cantrip's posting has me feeling town on him. It's a different tone than it was in our Avalon game.
I'm going to keep popping in and out checking up on different players today, but I hate post walls and prefer to do snippets at a time.
So you agreed with THIS Terry read of Cantrip? For this reason? Because CANTRIP thought that read was garbage, and eventually Terry even backed away before your post.
And it's NOT clear that you were townreading Cantrip because he made a good argument for my lynch, but because his tone was different than Avalon?
Enough, Unvote, Vote AtheistGod.
@Cyan, you're not off the hook either. But I only have one vote.
I am townreading him for both reasons.
So you have me as scum for obviously townreading Cantrip, but not stating it clearly enough for you? Could you explain why that would indicate a scum mindset?
I'm saying this: you displayed at least two, possibly three if people are feeling generous to read your "I agree with Terry" as "I'm townreading Cantrip because of the case he made on Mind", very sloppy pieces of information in that post.
#1 You like the case against me. But haven't read all my posts. That can come from a scum mindset right? That's definitely in the "gonna pile on without adding anything new, and I'll leave the wagon just as quickly". Combine this with not actually placing a vote. You agree with the case, but aren't going to put a vote there.
#2 You agree with Terry, but at that point, not even Terry agreed with Terry. Series of events: Terry says Cantrip has a different tone than avalon, and is therefore town. Cantrip says "don't toneread me like that, I'm amazing". Terry says "Okay, good point, I won't trust that". You say "I agree with Terry". You don't exactly spell out what you agree with. It's a HUGE stretch to say you meant "I think Cantrip is town due to interactions with Mind, the case, and his different tone from Avalon".
#3 If you in fact meant that you liked the case against me, proposed by Cantrip. AND you also liked his tone. Why isn't he in the list at the bottom? Shadow makes the cut. Rhand too. Explain why you don't specifically mention Cantrip here. The only reason not to include him, at that point, would have been if you thought his argument was bad. Right? Which you stated that you liked the argument. His absence in that list, is indicative of somebody who doesn't have to think about relationships between Cantrip and Mindreaver. Who knows they are both town, and just needs to side with one over the other, and isn't thinking about what the guilt of one of the two means. ie, a scum mindset.
beyond that, you dodged (thank you Gruff) my questions. Explain why you liked the case against me. What about it. No that you've read more from me (you have right?) Where do you stand? Meaning you're more concerned with picking apart my argument than convincing me you're just lazy!town. Hence my exasperation.
Note: currently willing to lynch Grape and Mind, but would like to hear more from AG and StinkyJoe as those reads are less confident.
Thank for your reads, but I think there is a lot more you could have taken from my posts than me following Mindreaver onto Gruffin. I should point out before that, I already had suspicions of Gruffin. Anyways, I don't need my vote on Gruffin right now, so UNVOTE. Please read through some of my other posts, I've done more than just follow Mindreaver onto Gruffin. I get when you do a big wall like that you tend to get lazy towards the end.
Can you tell me why Cyan never gets caught Day 1? He look pretty crappy to me right now.
Also, I need to go back to Mindreaver. Something has kind of bothered me recently about him and it relates to what Killjoy was saying. I feel like when I mentioned that I thought Gruffin could be scum, just a few posts later Mindreaver voted him for a subsequent slip. When I mentioned that I thought AG could be scum, Mindreaver comes in and starts pushing AG. I came on today thinking I was going to put my vote on AG, then I catch up and Mindreaver is already on there. I need to think on this, but it gives me pause to think the top vote getter is pushing the same reads I am.
It amazes me how many nations have united behind our purpose. There are still dissenters, of course--and some kingdoms, regrettably, have fallen to wars that I could not stop.
Still, this general unity is glorious, even humbling, to contemplate. I wish that the nations of mankind hadn't required such a dire threat to make them see the value of peace and cooperation.
We have til Friday to decide on our lynch. This game has been moving at a bit of a slow clip, and I think we need to change that.
@People not voting Mind: What are your thoughts on him being the leading wagon. Are you opposed to his lynch?
@People not voting: Why not?
_______________________________________________
@Gruffin: Do you have a working T/S list currently? Also, you didn't really direct a question at me in your recent post, but if you actually have something for me to address, let me know.
@Hunt: You're again not making an impact, did you roll neighborizor again or are you just not engaged?
@Kitbits: Who are your strongest 2 scum reads after GJ and why?
@GJ: You've made some posts and stuff, but I don't feel any drive coming off of you. Talk to me about where you're at.
Sorry for the lack of contributions. My daughter has been having health issues since Thanksgiving, and the doctors are finally conceding that they don't know what's going on and that she's not getting better, so Friday was getting some tests done and the weekend was as every weekend of mine seems to be: full.
I know this isn't my normal textwall (don't hold your breath; that may still be inflicted on you), but I'd really like to start here:
@Cantrip: OoG, I'm sorry to hear that. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and her.
Thanks (and thanks to Grape, too). It's nothing (obviously) life-threatening or even significantly impactful. Just that her glands swell up and she has a slight sore throat. But there are no internal signs that anything's wrong with her throat (that would indicate infection/bad tonsils/etc), and her white blood cell count is a little higher than we'd like...so we want to figure it out, if possible.
@Cantrip: OoG, I'm sorry to hear that. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and her.
Thanks (and thanks to Grape, too). It's nothing (obviously) life-threatening or even significantly impactful. Just that her glands swell up and she has a slight sore throat. But there are no internal signs that anything's wrong with her throat (that would indicate infection/bad tonsils/etc), and her white blood cell count is a little higher than we'd like...so we want to figure it out, if possible.
My youngest son, who is 5 now, has an undiagnosed muscular condition and trust me, I understand how frustrating not knowing what's happening is and the exhaustion of the tests and labs. Sorry you're going through that too. Have you taken her off dairy?
Mafia Stuff... I wouldn't mind seeing a Mindreaver/AG vote-off
@Killjoy what part of a giant post that says that I have found GJ to have incredibly town+ posts and some very scummy posts makes you think that I didn't reevaluate in between 162 and 188?
Like I said
Quote from Grape »
So mini wall time, GJ is fascinating to me this game and I'm surprised he's garnered as little discussion as he has. I think he has some of the towniest posts (this side of Cantrip), but also some of the scummiest.
I think that makes it pretty clear I've been wrestling for the GJ read.
Do you have a read with GJ since you found my read so fake?
I'll do a full post when I get home but I'm the meantime, StinkyJoe, can you throw some wires showing your work on that? I'd be interested to see that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy Shadowlancerx - While reading his posts didn't make THAT much of an imprssion on me, so I basically had him null. Then he claimed scum and now he's town!
Let me explain my approach to entering the game here: I started by asking some specific players if they would claim scum. I wanted reactions. Only Cyan and Huntz did. Neither made an impression.
So when I figured no one else would do it, I opened it up. This time I was looking the first reaction. I would decide how I felt about it when it was made. So in comes shadow with his yoloscumclaim. Actual scum, I do not think, would just claim "I'm scum" in such a reactionary way. So, I gave him a "probably Town" cookie. Then (and here's the kicker), he says that he was expecting that is what I was doing, and was expecting that result, and asked if I am still townreading him knowing that. Now, there are a bunch of ways a scum would react to being pocketed by a townie so that everyone else in the game doesn't think he's just accepting it like a scum would be apt to do. Asking said town to reevaluate their read is very distinctly not one of them. Additionally, it poses the risk of losing the pocket, another thing the scum distinctly does not want.
So, for that reason, I strongly think shadow is town. His reaction just... wasn't scum.
Gruffinchops - Through general tone and good questions, I've liked where her head is at. Also the Daychat thing gives me very strong town impressions. Rhand - Rhand is being Rhand. He appears to be in Rhand-solves-the-game mode. I really wanna just pocket him and call it a day but I'm not sure if that's a dangerous thing to do. Maybe tunneling.
Note: Dislike 325. Mindreaver's list and the one in the spoiler are quite different (like the one in the spoiler is actually waffly), and his analysis of it is overly aggressive, and a little unfair. It doesn't SCREAM scum, is what I'm saying. And "probably", Rhand? Really? Cantripmancer - Similar to Rhand, he's asking pertinent questions and making observations. Kitbits - Very similar to my read on Gruffinchops, just less strong. Gentleman Johnny- GJ is in lazy mode. Once he gets going I think maybe he'll become more clear to me. Bur - Bur is Bur. Bur is null. Bur is life. Also Bur hasn't posted much. quixotic72 - Literally forgot he was in the game. Barely remember anything Logic did, but I think there was nothing that stuck out as alignment-indicative. Cyan - Has a bit of a slow start, but it's early. Cyan doesn't get caught D1 usually. You have to wait a bit. Cyan hasn't really started doing scum!Cyan things yet. Cythare - has posted nothing. Huntzilla - Hunt is always scummy to me, so he's null till I figure out if he's scum or not. AtheistGod - He hasn't done much, but there's something off about 231, It's vague and non-commital. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - I really dislike how he followed Mind onto Gruffin in such an aggressive fashion. Bloodthirsty, like Mind. Nothing else really stuck out. Mindreaver - His tone and attitude just... doesn't seem town to me, as a whole. I really dislike his vote on Gruffin in 136 for the Daychat slip... it feels... bloodthirsty? Like OOOH TOWN MISTAKE MUST CASH IN as opposed to town who would take a breath and try to figure out if it actually WAS a slip before jumping on it. I also dislike the tone of 217 because it feels more coming from a "Hey, that's unfair!", defensive POV instead of something more analytical.
Note: Mind and Cantrip very likely unaligned.
Also note: two of his townreads are scum to me right now. Grapefruit21 - I really dislike post 188 because he concludes that his posting comes from a townie mindset, he thinks... but the post before it, 162, he had said if the deadline were in 24 hours, among his preferred lynches was GJ. Which would be fine if there was some indication that he had reconsidered his read or something while writing, but there's nothing in 188 that says that. I think it's a fake townread on GJ.
Hey Killjoy. Which two of my "townreads" are scum to you right now? Unless I'm missing something here, you aren't scumreading GJ, Kitbit, or Cantrip, so...?
Also, by unaligned, do you mean that Cantrip and I aren't scum together? I'm just curious, because I don't see how me flipping implicates him.
Also, by unaligned, do you mean that Cantrip and I aren't scum together? I'm just curious, because I don't see how me flipping implicates him.
This reads oddly. I'm struggling to see town mindset behind considering your own scum flip and how people look off it. The 'I don't see how me flipping...' part of the post. Like, I get that it's a hypothetical, but something about it feels off. Like you're asking him how Cantrip is cleared after you flip scum, while knowing you're going to flip scum.
Vote: Mindreaver
I'm only about halfway caught up, will try to finish tonight, but refreshing current page caught my eye.
Also, by unaligned, do you mean that Cantrip and I aren't scum together? I'm just curious, because I don't see how me flipping implicates him.
This reads oddly. I'm struggling to see town mindset behind considering your own scum flip and how people look off it. The 'I don't see how me flipping...' part of the post. Like, I get that it's a hypothetical, but something about it feels off. Like you're asking him how Cantrip is cleared after you flip scum, while knowing you're going to flip scum.
Vote: Mindreaver
I'm only about halfway caught up, will try to finish tonight, but refreshing current page caught my eye.
I'm flipping town, I didn't see how dead town!mind on the ground makes scum!cantrip.
I will try my best to find replacements for both of those two but this may be tough. In the meantime, the deadline will be suspended until I find replacements for both of them.
After reading through Mindreaver, I'm not convinced he's scum. This feels to be genuine frustration. I didn't like that Shadow pushed him around so easily regarding his unvote of Gruffin. Not so much anything that Shadow did wrong more so the fact that Mindreaver, was just like, "Ok I'll unvote, if you leave me alone."
Anyways, to clarify... I feel like overall he reads frustrated town to me, but there were still a couple of marks on his record. I also feel the same way he does about my vote on Gruffin. I wanted to bring attention to something I saw and the best way to do that and have it taken seriously is with a vote. Gruffin is in no danger of being lynched today and my vote on him doesn't really matter until we get closer to the deadline and I need to put my signature on a lynch candidate going into the night.
Cantrip's posting has me feeling town on him. It's a different tone than it was in our Avalon game.
I'm going to keep popping in and out checking up on different players today, but I hate post walls and prefer to do snippets at a time.
So you agreed with THIS Terry read of Cantrip? For this reason? Because CANTRIP thought that read was garbage, and eventually Terry even backed away before your post.
And it's NOT clear that you were townreading Cantrip because he made a good argument for my lynch, but because his tone was different than Avalon?
Enough, Unvote, Vote AtheistGod.
@Cyan, you're not off the hook either. But I only have one vote.
I am townreading him for both reasons.
So you have me as scum for obviously townreading Cantrip, but not stating it clearly enough for you? Could you explain why that would indicate a scum mindset?
I'm saying this: you displayed at least two, possibly three if people are feeling generous to read your "I agree with Terry" as "I'm townreading Cantrip because of the case he made on Mind", very sloppy pieces of information in that post.
#1 You like the case against me. But haven't read all my posts. That can come from a scum mindset right? That's definitely in the "gonna pile on without adding anything new, and I'll leave the wagon just as quickly". Combine this with not actually placing a vote. You agree with the case, but aren't going to put a vote there.
Why is it "can be from scum"? You are already voting me, shouldn't your arguments be based on "more likely scum than not" rather than "isn't 100% townie"? It sounds like you are arguing against town-clearing me, not arguing that I'm scum. You can look at my previous games if you want, I don't tend to throw my vote around that much day 1. You being my top scum suspect doesn't mean I'm ready to end the day (which I saw as likely given you already sitting at L-2).
#2 You agree with Terry, but at that point, not even Terry agreed with Terry. Series of events: Terry says Cantrip has a different tone than avalon, and is therefore town. Cantrip says "don't toneread me like that, I'm amazing". Terry says "Okay, good point, I won't trust that". You say "I agree with Terry". You don't exactly spell out what you agree with. It's a HUGE stretch to say you meant "I think Cantrip is town due to interactions with Mind, the case, and his different tone from Avalon".
It's what I meant. Why is that such a huge stretch? Cantrip sounds very different in this game than he has in the previous games I've played with him (which I believe are 2 scum-Cantrip games and 1 town-Cantrip game (where I got lynched 48 hours into day 1, which reminds me that "your explanation on the meaning behind your posts is a stretch" was the primary force behind that wagon Game Thread)).
#3 If you in fact meant that you liked the case against me, proposed by Cantrip. AND you also liked his tone. Why isn't he in the list at the bottom? Shadow makes the cut. Rhand too. Explain why you don't specifically mention Cantrip here. The only reason not to include him, at that point, would have been if you thought his argument was bad. Right? Which you stated that you liked the argument. His absence in that list, is indicative of somebody who doesn't have to think about relationships between Cantrip and Mindreaver. Who knows they are both town, and just needs to side with one over the other, and isn't thinking about what the guilt of one of the two means. ie, a scum mindset.
I had already mentioned Cantrip. I'm not going to say "Cantrip is town. Also, Cantrip is town." I was listing reads that I hadn't already touched on.
beyond that, you dodged (thank you Gruff) my questions. Explain why you liked the case against me. What about it. No that you've read more from me (you have right?) Where do you stand? Meaning you're more concerned with picking apart my argument than convincing me you're just lazy!town. Hence my exasperation.
First off, Mindreaver, I don't buy that your "I hate agreeing with GJ" was a throw away line. It feels like fabricated emotion. Similarly with the "I hate Shadow's interactions with Bur." I feel like if you were town and felt like Shadow was acting scummy, then saw him interacting with Bur in a way you found coaching, you'd be excited/happy to be making connections between players that lead to solving the game. Instead, you're using "hate" language; again, it feels like fabricated emotion, and misplaced at that.
You don't seem to be interested in finding scum. The same pattern is showing up in your case against me. You seem more worried about "makes sense to vote" than "is scum".
Sorry for the lack of contributions. My daughter has been having health issues since Thanksgiving, and the doctors are finally conceding that they don't know what's going on and that she's not getting better, so Friday was getting some tests done and the weekend was as every weekend of mine seems to be: full.
I know this isn't my normal textwall (don't hold your breath; that may still be inflicted on you), but I'd really like to start here:
Note: currently willing to lynch Grape and Mind, but would like to hear more from AG and StinkyJoe as those reads are less confident.
Thank for your reads, but I think there is a lot more you could have taken from my posts than me following Mindreaver onto Gruffin. I should point out before that, I already had suspicions of Gruffin. Anyways, I don't need my vote on Gruffin right now, so UNVOTE. Please read through some of my other posts, I've done more than just follow Mindreaver onto Gruffin. I get when you do a big wall like that you tend to get lazy towards the end.
Can you tell me why Cyan never gets caught Day 1? He look pretty crappy to me right now.
Also, I need to go back to Mindreaver. Something has kind of bothered me recently about him and it relates to what Killjoy was saying. I feel like when I mentioned that I thought Gruffin could be scum, just a few posts later Mindreaver voted him for a subsequent slip. When I mentioned that I thought AG could be scum, Mindreaver comes in and starts pushing AG. I came on today thinking I was going to put my vote on AG, then I catch up and Mindreaver is already on there. I need to think on this, but it gives me pause to think the top vote getter is pushing the same reads I am.
You may have done, but your vote and Mind's vote looked exactly the same.
And, perusing your ISO, I do see that you were suspicious of Gruffin prior to Mind doing his thing.
I do not believe Mind saw your scumread and decided to copy it, though. Fabricating a scumread on someone because some other person says they're scumreading them (especially without the other person taking steps to prove it, allowing said scum to /barn for reasons stated) is just a weird thing for scum to do, and is just obviously so scummy that, if the scum is even a little self-concious they wouldn't do it.
Rereading Mind's T/S List, I looked again and I don't see any read or opinon on AG prior to that list.Nope checked again, there isn't one prior to that list. So you may be on to something there.
I want to ask though: Why did you see Mind's scum-slip accusation, but not read GJ's post directly after it explaining the meta?
Cyan is a player that kinda... tempers himself. He kinda throws opinions as he has them. But I haven't seen an accusation Today that's indicative of scum!Cyan. You pretty much need to catch him via a discrepency in his play/ his opinions etc. You need to outthink him. I wouldn't expect simple scumtells like "not scumhunting" and the like to work, especially so early in the game. Although, sometimes he gets help, because sometimes the Tracker targets him every night but he has a redirect that doesn't allow the Tracker to see who his SK self is killing. /salt. You're welcome to push though, Joe. It can't hurt.
@Killjoy what part of a giant post that says that I have found GJ to have incredibly town+ posts and some very scummy posts makes you think that I didn't reevaluate in between 162 and 188?
Like I said
Quote from Grape »
So mini wall time, GJ is fascinating to me this game and I'm surprised he's garnered as little discussion as he has. I think he has some of the towniest posts (this side of Cantrip), but also some of the scummiest.
I think that makes it pretty clear I've been wrestling for the GJ read.
Do you have a read with GJ since you found my read so fake?
...Did you miss the part where I said that? Since there was no indication that you actaully reevaluated (most people mention that when they change opinions) then I concluded that you just... forgot you were townreading him or something. I guess it's fair to think maybe you reevaluated given how you go back and forth there. I need to ISO you so I can figure out if it's wrestling or waffling.
No, still no read on GJ. Day 1 GJ is usually lazy and doesn't do much. Not much has stood out from him Today.
Hey Killjoy. Which two of my "townreads" are scum to you right now? Unless I'm missing something here, you aren't scumreading GJ, Kitbit, or Cantrip, so...?
Also, by unaligned, do you mean that Cantrip and I aren't scum together? I'm just curious, because I don't see how me flipping implicates him.
Town
Gentleman Johnny - There are some posts that are giving me pause. Particularly the last one about Ctan's 249 (called it good analysis, which I have to be honest, wasn't what I see there). But overall seems to be analyzing and willing to re-evaluate as new information comes it, with respect to his scum reads AND his townreads.
Kitbits - Probably my strongest tone read, I haven't seen much from him that hasn't screamed town to me.
Cantripmancer - Despite our interactions, I do think Cantrip is town. His points have largely been valid, without agenda. In some cases he's taken things I've said and misinterpreted. But that's a two-way street, and I can see his perspective. I don't see scum trying to push, I see town trying to investigate.
Lean Town
shadowlancerx - I'm not sure I have enough to call shadow town. Especially since his scum game is pretty strong, especially tone. But I do appreciate his thought process, and although I do get more of a "Gotcha" vibe from some of his posts (in contrast to Cantrip), I'm not seeing how it could fit in with a plan (trying to push me in hte first 3 pages would have been a REALLY bad scum plan, and I think shadow would know that). TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - I spoke about how I'm reading Terry, having just finished a game with him. I am more null on him then town, but his gruff arguments aren't the worst, even if I do think they are somewhat emotional vs logical. But like GJ, he's re-evaluating scum and town reads.
Grapefruit21 - weakest townlean right now. It's mostly tone, and how he's interacting with people I have as null or scummy (Rhand, Bur, being hte two big ones).
Null
Gruffinchops - Has some posts I thought were very town, and others was very questionable. I just don't know at this point. Active though, so that's better than some of these others.
LogicoftheVI - Haven't heard enough to form an opinion, especially since we've never played together.
Bur - See Logic
Suspect but still null
Huntzilla - Hunt has made such little impact, that I forgot he was even on my wagon. I couldn't point to a specific scummy post, but since it's hunt on day 1, that troubles me somewhat. I'd like to see more from him, offering specifics on the next five:
Rhand - I am always suspect of Rhand. He's had really strong town-posts, but that interaction with GJ (104) was super suspect. It's not enough to condemn, but it definitely stuck in my head as "oh *****, he just nailed me". "Do I do that?" seemed forced. Behaviorally though, I think he's pushing the right people, AKA Hunt, Apacado, Cythere. While interacting favorably with GJ and Cantrip, specially over the "lynch from the bottom up" discussion. I don't think scum participates in that discussion one way or another.
Lean Scum
Apocado - Vote on me was gross and oppotunistic. The reason wasn't at all a good one (159). Hasn't read my game, but I "sound forced", in the only game we've ever played. There were *lots* of better reasons already given by others for joining the wagon, and Rhand even contrasted his vote with Hunts, and got no response.
Cyan - One liners the whole game, but still managed to join the leading wagon. That's garbage. I see piling on the easy target, and offering little in the way of original thought. This is my top scum suspect at the moment.
Cythare - similarly I haven't seen much here. I'd put this as null, but ISO him from this game. One post that says "tomorrow" and a second one that says "responding to prod". That's it. That level of disengagement either needs to request replacement, or is being purposely evacive. I'm not sure which. With activity or with replacement, could easily move to null.
AtheistGod - Wasn't blown away by the entrance (231). How can somebody be hard null in the first place? isn't that just "null". Mentioning it at all feels like filler, when you're coming into the game state. He's also stating the case on me being reasonable, but that he hasn't read my posts. Cantrip pounced on this, but I think the simplest explanation was he read Cantrip's long-post about me, and sheeped it. That may come from town, but combined with the nothing read on Cyan, and going out of his way to say Shadow and Rhand are town (with no mention of Cantrip btw) combine to show me a sloppy summary of his thought process.
Bolding/coloring by me.
Leantown is still a townread.
And 'not aligned' in the way that you guys probably aren't scum together, due to interactions. If you flipped scum, that confirms Cantrip in my mind, and vise versa. If you flip town, nothing happens with Cantrip. That's not how 'not aligned' works.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Killjoy I thought the part I quoted made it clear I had reevaluated. I guess it didn't. That was my intent with the preamble though to make it clear that GJ has swung wildly between both ends of my t/s list.
Sorry for the lack of contributions. My daughter has been having health issues since Thanksgiving, and the doctors are finally conceding that they don't know what's going on and that she's not getting better, so Friday was getting some tests done and the weekend was as every weekend of mine seems to be: full.
I know this isn't my normal textwall (don't hold your breath; that may still be inflicted on you), but I'd really like to start here:
@Rhand: What do you think of Killjoy right now?
Sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope they find out what's wrong soon so you can stop worrying :/
About KillJoy: Saying that my post about Mind's T/S is bad while at the same time saying that Mind is scum is weird.
Also, with what he said about the two of us, it seems to make more sense to have you above me in his own T/S, but that's just a detail.
His T/S does reflect my own view of the gamestate, and that's usually a good sign.
And 'not aligned' in the way that you guys probably aren't scum together, due to interactions. If you flipped scum, that confirms Cantrip in my mind, and vise versa. If you flip town, nothing happens with Cantrip. That's not how 'not aligned' works.
That's why I asked the question. Geez.
So in your mind, I'm townreading 6 people and 2 are your suspects? I'm fine with that. That original post didn't make sense, when I compared our lists. But fine, you're leaning a different way on Terry, which I could understand. Grape is more null than townlean, but whatever, you can make your point if you want. Although "scum reading two of your town reads" is a bit loaded.
@AG - I think I'm at L-3, unless I missed a vote, not L-2. I think it'd be okay if you voted, and got yourself counted on my wagon.
We have til Friday to decide on our lynch. This game has been moving at a bit of a slow clip, and I think we need to change that.
@People not voting Mind: What are your thoughts on him being the leading wagon. Are you opposed to his lynch?
@People not voting: Why not?
_______________________________________________
@Gruffin: Do you have a working T/S list currently? Also, you didn't really direct a question at me in your recent post, but if you actually have something for me to address, let me know.
@Hunt: You're again not making an impact, did you roll neighborizor again or are you just not engaged?
@Kitbits: Who are your strongest 2 scum reads after GJ and why?
@GJ: You've made some posts and stuff, but I don't feel any drive coming off of you. Talk to me about where you're at.
No, No neighborizer this time.
I could give you a bunch of the normal reasons, but it boils down to me being comfortable sitting back Day 1 and listening more than engaging out of the gate.
I'm happy where my votes at right now.
@ Shadow
Do you like KJ's TS list?
Do you AGREE with KJ's TS list?
You may have done, but your vote and Mind's vote looked exactly the same.
And, perusing your ISO, I do see that you were suspicious of Gruffin prior to Mind doing his thing.
I do not believe Mind saw your scumread and decided to copy it, though. Fabricating a scumread on someone because some other person says they're scumreading them (especially without the other person taking steps to prove it, allowing said scum to /barn for reasons stated) is just a weird thing for scum to do, and is just obviously so scummy that, if the scum is even a little self-concious they wouldn't do it.
Rereading Mind's T/S List, I looked again and I don't see any read or opinon on AG prior to that list.Nope checked again, there isn't one prior to that list. So you may be on to something there.
I want to ask though: Why did you see Mind's scum-slip accusation, but not read GJ's post directly after it explaining the meta?
Cyan is a player that kinda... tempers himself. He kinda throws opinions as he has them. But I haven't seen an accusation Today that's indicative of scum!Cyan. You pretty much need to catch him via a discrepency in his play/ his opinions etc. You need to outthink him. I wouldn't expect simple scumtells like "not scumhunting" and the like to work, especially so early in the game. Although, sometimes he gets help, because sometimes the Tracker targets him every night but he has a redirect that doesn't allow the Tracker to see who his SK self is killing. /salt. You're welcome to push though, Joe. It can't hurt.
I concede that our votes were similar, but the reason I left that vote was because I was still suspicious, regardless of the day chat WIFOM and I didn't have a good idea of were my vote would be better at the moment. I also had the same meta surprise as Gruff when I drew Avalon Scum. I asked the mod where the link was to day chat and was surprised to hear we didn't even get night chat.
As far as Mind trailing me onto suspicions, I was a little irked by it when it happened with Gruffin, but the AG thing also reminded me of it because I was about to come on and pursue an AG case. I actually don't think it's that bad of a scum play and not as obvious as you imply.
RE: Cyan. I kind of beg to differ on him not throwing accusations toady. I'll make a separate Cyan post
No, No neighborizer this time.
I could give you a bunch of the normal reasons, but it boils down to me being comfortable sitting back Day 1 and listening more than engaging out of the gate.
I'm happy where my votes at right now.
@ Shadow
Do you like KJ's TS list?
Do you AGREE with KJ's TS list?
No it isn't the same question.
Fair enough.
I do like his list, it shows a level of effort and critical thinking that I really appreciate from a replacement.
As far as agreeing with it...Well yeah I really do. I've got a few people moved up and down within the same areas, but his view of the gamestate is eerily similar to mine. His putting me as top town is a little eh, like I get why he's town reading me, but having not played against my scum game means he's probably not as cautious as might be deserved.
How do you feel about it? Who are your strongest reads right now, in either direction?
This reads oddly. I'm struggling to see town mindset behind considering your own scum flip and how people look off it. The 'I don't see how me flipping...' part of the post. Like, I get that it's a hypothetical, but something about it feels off. Like you're asking him how Cantrip is cleared after you flip scum, while knowing you're going to flip scum.
Vote: Mindreaver
I'm only about halfway caught up, will try to finish tonight, but refreshing current page caught my eye.
If mind flips scum, then this is my first pick for bus vote. It reads to me like he saw a buddy getting run up and wanted to get in while he still could.
Our early banter was awful and I don't like his response to Gruffin in 81. I also think town!Bur would have reacted to having 3 votes even if they're RVS votes. I don't like completely ignoring it.
Colder take Rhand is town despite the over-explaining in 34.
Well, let's see what Bur does over the next few pages after being called scum.
God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".
That said, I hate shadow's interactions with Bur. The "Why am I town?" stuff reaks of coaching. Like "shadow stop, you don't have reasons". So that's something to look back on if we see either flip.
So many new faces. @Gruff/@grape, I'm definitely confusing the two of you already. Do you both play together often? How many time have you played with Kit/Bur? Enough to be able to meta read them this early?
I really like Kit so far. @Kit thoughts/past experience on Logic? Not able to really get a feel for him yet, and I'd like your thoughts.
@Rhand, do you think GJ is scum? What would that mean regarding his comments to Cyan and Burs wagon? You highlighted them, but is GJ bussing partners there, or trying to throw shade at town?
Mind mentions: Shadow as scummy; Kit as townie; GJ's interactions. Could be looking to distance or bus based on Rhand's answer. Could be nothing. Worth noting for now.
@Mindreaver Gruffin, Kit, logic, Bur and I all play on another site with Proph. I have played 2 games with Bur and 4ish with Kit. Gruffin has played more with the others than I have there.
I'm reasonably confident I can read Bur, but I was super wrong on him last time when he was scum but was my top town read. So take my confidence with a grain of salt.
What do you think of Bur so far? You implicate him slightly, but seems more contingent on being paired with Shadow. Anything stand out apart from that one interaction?
So 50% of the time you were completely wrong, but you feel confident you can read him? Can you explain this a little for me?
Self conscious.
Upset over a little pressure.
Pointing finger around the room saying looookkkk.
Unvote
Vote Mindreaver
Cyan agrees with Cantrip and votes. There's nothing wrong with a /barn. That said, I do think Cyan is likely scum because he hasn't produced a single independent thought.
GJ isn't voting him?
I'm not throwing mud. I'm calling people out for bad posts and bad votes.
I'm too lazy to make a meme, but imagine there is one here that says "One does not simply.... Set up low hanging fruit"
Someone is or is not low hanging fruit. You don't create that.
There were a LOT of people talking about the day chat issue, which took up basically a page. Why didn't you feel others stood out about the setup gaming aspect? Cantrip seemed to be one of the main contributors to the discussion. Do you feel this awards him scum points?
Okay that's enough for now. Bur did not come back and discuss really anything up until page 5. Perhaps the read that scum!Bur bows out is right on?
@Hunt: at that time, TRSJT had hardly posted and all of a sudden became active when the topic wasn't about people.
Cantrip had a lot of good contributions before that.
It seems Rashek represents a growing faction in Terris culture. A large number of the youths think that their unusual powers should be used for more than just fieldwork, husbandry, and stonecarving. They are rowdy, even violent--far different from the quiet, discerning Terris philosophers and holy men that I have known.
They will have to be watched carefully, these Terrismen. They could be very dangerous, if given the opportunity and the motivation.
No, No neighborizer this time.
I could give you a bunch of the normal reasons, but it boils down to me being comfortable sitting back Day 1 and listening more than engaging out of the gate.
I'm happy where my votes at right now.
@ Shadow
Do you like KJ's TS list?
Do you AGREE with KJ's TS list?
No it isn't the same question.
Fair enough.
I do like his list, it shows a level of effort and critical thinking that I really appreciate from a replacement.
As far as agreeing with it...Well yeah I really do. I've got a few people moved up and down within the same areas, but his view of the gamestate is eerily similar to mine. His putting me as top town is a little eh, like I get why he's town reading me, but having not played against my scum game means he's probably not as cautious as might be deserved.
How do you feel about it? Who are your strongest reads right now, in either direction?
It's a decent list. Like you mention, there are a few here and there I would move around... most notably Cantrip. I'm not going to award him the town cookie quite yet.
My top three town are you, Rhand, and Kit. After the reread I feel pretty solid on Kit being townie.
Top 3 scum reads are Mindreaver, GJ, Bur; not as sure on the last two there. The whole scum pool I'm working with currently is those three with Logic, Cythare, Cyan, and SJT. I want to definitely lynch in that pool today and see what we get for a flip. Unless Quixotic can impress me enough to be moved out of the pile for today.
Popping in. Sorry, my classes have been a bit brutal and I have a test tomorrow I feel woefully unprepared for.
Little bit I have read, Hunt feels kind of lolsy, Mind feels weird as well, but fence sitting here as well. Cythare was basically my Champ's rule wolf in my group.
My only issue with my wolf cluster is that I feel like I have no deep wolf. Mindreaver could be that one, but not sure yet. Promise to have more later.
Sorry for the lack of contributions. My daughter has been having health issues since Thanksgiving, and the doctors are finally conceding that they don't know what's going on and that she's not getting better, so Friday was getting some tests done and the weekend was as every weekend of mine seems to be: full.
I know this isn't my normal textwall (don't hold your breath; that may still be inflicted on you), but I'd really like to start here:
@Rhand: What do you think of Killjoy right now?
Sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope they find out what's wrong soon so you can stop worrying :/
About KillJoy: Saying that my post about Mind's T/S is bad while at the same time saying that Mind is scum is weird.
Also, with what he said about the two of us, it seems to make more sense to have you above me in his own T/S, but that's just a detail.
His T/S does reflect my own view of the gamestate, and that's usually a good sign.
Oh, really? Huh.
I'm saying your post is overly aggressive and hyperbolic.
That T/S screams scum.
First off, his GJ read: he puts him on top of the town pile and then waffles like crazy when explaining the read. Same for the Cantrip read, but to a smaller extent.
Kitbits is "probably" the strongest tone read? Why add that qualifier?
The Shadow read: what kind of plan are you looking for when hunting for scum Mind?
The Hunt read smells like a scumbuddy.
The Rhand read: Have you even read my posts? Those 3 are not who I've been pushing?
The AG read: same as GJ but the other way around. He puts him on the bottom of the scum pile and then says that what he's doing might come from town.
That kind of waffling in a T/S reminds me of Zomgarcwind's T/S in Overwatch.
Okay I caught up, here is my thoughts on everyone so far. I do understand its the holidays and this day is gonna take longer than normal because of it but some people i just dont have reads on yet
Town:
Zomgarcwind
Ophidia – early claim, that comes from someone desperate to make it a few days in rather than always die D1/N1. #174 could be scummy though, making the town assume the T:S ratios etc.
Vaimes- This feels like town vaimes right now, he is trying to stop stupid wagons from starting and scum hunting for real scum not for the easy lynch and flip
Rodemy- His behavior is the same behavior he has every day 1, even his scum game plays this way day 1. Im gonna stick him in the town pile for the day and look at him harder later down the line
Huntzilla- Has not posted much content, most of his stuff feels PTAP. Could be Scum with Rod or Rhand #100 feels like coaching but his couple of other posts feel town
D_V- Also hasn’t posted much, but as I reread I would start thinking something and he would say it, like his #113, literally 2 minutes ago I was thinking atog could be scummy because of his early posts then bam I read it.
Cantripmancer- Had solid questions for everyone, while ive never played with him before I find posts like his first content post to not come from a scum unless that scum is wolfing.
Null:
Shadowlancerx- I need more posts to read him, but im usually pretty good at doing it. Im hoping that he can be sorted by 3/4 thru the day. #167 I liked a lot though, town!shadow doesn’t use OOG to win, Scum!shadow would.
Scarbo- One post to let us know he would be back asap, nothing to go on.
Kittythegoddess- 1 Word this game, I need more!
red_0mega- Seems to play kinda cautiously, I cant tell if its refusing to name leads because he has none or if he overanalyses
Scummy:
Atogoholic- those few posts just seemed opportunistic. Why did you make them Atog?
Ghosting- You feel like scum trying to get wagons started, maybe this is you just hunting since it benefits you this game. Then you pre-emptavely post games, including a micro scum and neutral game. I think I just have a problem with you including a neutral game, are you hinting that you rolled it AGAIN? Like I think your wagon could be just bull*****, but I dunno, link me a non-micro scum game maybe?
Rhand- Seems like he is trying to hunt, but might just be that wine. Definitely appearing to make himself tied to Atog. Has been moving his vote around quite a bit. TSTBS or Wolfing?
My vote is going to one of you, please answer my questions so I can decide which one
First of all you say it screams scum. There's like... some waffling on AG, and his Terry "more null than town" seems a little weird but nowhere near the level that you're making it out to be.
There's really also nothing wrong with saying Kitbits is "probably" his strongest town read. It's a fairly common idiom.
I'm slso not why your shadow point makes Mind suspicious. Explain that further.
"Hunt smells like a scumbuddy" How? Why is Hunt scum with Mind? Do any of Hunt's posts also give you that impression?
The AG read is the only thing I really agree with in that list.
I guess I'm getting at the that list feels abruptly tunnelly, which is weird.
And 'not aligned' in the way that you guys probably aren't scum together, due to interactions. If you flipped scum, that confirms Cantrip in my mind, and vise versa. If you flip town, nothing happens with Cantrip. That's not how 'not aligned' works.
That's why I asked the question. Geez.
So in your mind, I'm townreading 6 people and 2 are your suspects? I'm fine with that. That original post didn't make sense, when I compared our lists. But fine, you're leaning a different way on Terry, which I could understand. Grape is more null than townlean, but whatever, you can make your point if you want. Although "scum reading two of your town reads" is a bit loaded.
@AG - I think I'm at L-3, unless I missed a vote, not L-2. I think it'd be okay if you voted, and got yourself counted on my wagon.
Funnily enough, those 'notes' I made weren't things I found suspicious. They were just things to keep an eye on.
But the tone of this seems like... you dislike being scumread. Not, like you're suspicious of me for doing it necessarily, but like you [i]dislike[i] being scumread for that. CFTWR I think it's called?
(Also if that last post sounded snarky at you that was not it's intention.)
No, No neighborizer this time.
I could give you a bunch of the normal reasons, but it boils down to me being comfortable sitting back Day 1 and listening more than engaging out of the gate.
I'm happy where my votes at right now.
@ Shadow
Do you like KJ's TS list?
Do you AGREE with KJ's TS list?
No it isn't the same question.
Do YOU like and/or agree with it? I need more info on your slot. Talk about things.
I concede that our votes were similar, but the reason I left that vote was because I was still suspicious, regardless of the day chat WIFOM and I didn't have a good idea of were my vote would be better at the moment. I also had the same meta surprise as Gruff when I drew Avalon Scum. I asked the mod where the link was to day chat and was surprised to hear we didn't even get night chat.
As far as Mind trailing me onto suspicions, I was a little irked by it when it happened with Gruffin, but the AG thing also reminded me of it because I was about to come on and pursue an AG case. I actually don't think it's that bad of a scum play and not as obvious as you imply.
RE: Cyan. I kind of beg to differ on him not throwing accusations toady. I'll make a separate Cyan post
Uh, no. You specifically said that Mind's pointing out the daytalk thing was 'enough for a vote' or whatever. GJ made it clear that wasn't a thing. Even previous suspicion doesn't justify that vote given that the daytalk thing was the tipping point. Also you never answered my question. Why didn't you read GJ's post?
Now, you say that but that's almost exactly what it looks like he's doing with AG. It came out of nowhere and it's REALLY obvious. Maybe I'm wrong about scum not doing that?
I look forward to your Cyan post.
Notes:
Terry/GJ world slightly more likely: Sometimes lazy scum don't read their buddies posts in favor of looking for reasons in town posts to try to get them lynched.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Funnily enough, those 'notes' I made weren't things I found suspicious. They were just things to keep an eye on.
But the tone of this seems like... you dislike being scumread. Not, like you're suspicious of me for doing it necessarily, but like you [i]dislike[i] being scumread for that. CFTWR I think it's called?
(Also if that last post sounded snarky at you that was not it's intention.)
Well I didn't take it as snarky. I'm a little frustrated with myself, to be honest. I was excited to have a cool role, and I'm probably getting close to where I'm going to have to share more than I wanted to. And it's 100% my fault, for not flying a lot further under the radar. Or at least not setting myself up to be in this position.
I'm Vin. If you've read the books, she's the main character for most of it, and I have a neat role that should be able to easily prove my alignment if I'm not too unlucky tonight. If I can't, arrest me tomorrow.
Town:
Gruffin - I’m town.
Kit Slot - Transparent, inquistive, and an overall townie tone in each of her posts.
SJT - Skepticism over clearing me, his Shadow read showed natural thought.
Townlean:
Quixotic (Logic) - Logic was willing to look at the game from different angles. Haven’t seen enough from Quixotic one way or the other.
Cantrip - Engaged early on, poking people. I don’t completely trust them, but they should not be lynched today.
Rhand - Similar to Cantrip by being engaged and poking people.
Neutral:
Shadow - Gave me bad vibes early, then shows interest in figuring people out, then had that odd logic in 272.
Mind - Lots of backpedaling in recent posts with Rhand. Still scum hunting under pressure. I’m wary of how quickly/easily his wagon has formed coupled with how long it’s been sustained.
Bur - Has asked a lot of softball questions.
GJ - Had a couple weird moments with his meta argument and inactive hunting.
Null:
Hunt - Posts have left little impression on my mind.
Cythare Slot - I’ve got nothing.
AG - Dodged a question, otherwise I’ve got nothing.
Grape - Haven’t paid much attention to him. A reread is in order.
Scumlean:
Killjoy (Apocado) - Apocado’s opportunistic vote on Mind. Killjoy had a strange entrance, but not something I would consider AI. I’m going to give Killjoy time to redeem the slot, however.
Cyan - Sheeps votes, doesn’t give details about their thought process.
---
@People not voting Mind: What are your thoughts on him being the leading wagon. Are you opposed to his lynch?
I’m pretty wary of this wagon because of how fixated the thread has been on him. It started early, drew a bunch of sheep votes, and has sustained itself up until now. Which makes me wonder why? It’s either that town has its act together while Mind’s buddies are inactive or bussing, OR the scum are sitting back and allowing a lynch on a townie to go through.
@Gruffin: Regarding Bur, it's much easier for a townie to correct a bad read than scum. Sure, I could drop him back to null, but I appreciate his approach. And sometimes you get so much more from townreading people than scum reading them.
So, by scum reason someone early on, you make them actively vigilant against you, whether that's by appeasing you, having articulately formed posts, and being aware of scrutinizing eyes upon everything you post. Whereas, if you give them a little breathing room, let them focus on other things, which means they aren't on the defensive. If the person in question is actually town, then that mentality should shine through, and if they're scum, you put them in a position where they're more likely to make a mistake, or leave a clue for later, because they aren't so rigidly aware of the attention. That's my take anyway.
Popping in. Sorry, my classes have been a bit brutal and I have a test tomorrow I feel woefully unprepared for.
Little bit I have read, Hunt feels kind of lolsy, Mind feels weird as well, but fence sitting here as well. Cythare was basically my Champ's rule wolf in my group.
My only issue with my wolf cluster is that I feel like I have no deep wolf. Mindreaver could be that one, but not sure yet. Promise to have more later.
Hey, now that all the requisite games are over, I wanted to kind of poke holes in your champs rule. Both of the games I've been scum (Bare Bones and Overwatch) and not followed champs rule at all. I feel like you should maybe scum hunt first, and use it as a support tool instead of leaning on it.
I'm Vin. If you've read the books, she's the main character for most of it, and I have a neat role that should be able to easily prove my alignment if I'm not too unlucky tonight. If I can't, arrest me tomorrow.
Funnily enough, those 'notes' I made weren't things I found suspicious. They were just things to keep an eye on.
But the tone of this seems like... you dislike being scumread. Not, like you're suspicious of me for doing it necessarily, but like you [i]dislike[i] being scumread for that. CFTWR I think it's called?
(Also if that last post sounded snarky at you that was not it's intention.)
Well I didn't take it as snarky. I'm a little frustrated with myself, to be honest. I was excited to have a cool role, and I'm probably getting close to where I'm going to have to share more than I wanted to. And it's 100% my fault, for not flying a lot further under the radar. Or at least not setting myself up to be in this position.
I'm Vin. If you've read the books, she's the main character for most of it, and I have a neat role that should be able to easily prove my alignment if I'm not too unlucky tonight. If I can't, arrest me tomorrow.
Hm. Well then Unvote. I look forward to seeing what happens then.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The flavor probably means nothing alignment wise, but you can't have mistborn without Vin (and probably not without some form of Kelsier). It's a pretty standard role, with a twist. I'm softclaiming exactly what it does, because I can prove myself without revealing the entire thing.
Or I'll get shot in the face. Should be interesting either way
The flavor probably means nothing alignment wise, but you can't have mistborn without Vin (and probably not without some form of Kelsier). It's a pretty standard role, with a twist. I'm softclaiming exactly what it does, because I can prove myself without revealing the entire thing.
Or I'll get shot in the face. Should be interesting either way
Sorry, I left out the important bit. Vin is never vanilla town (or mafia thug if you want to split hairs). That would be like Kirby being vanilla town in Kirby's dream land. If somebody counterclaims that name, then you either got me or we 1 for 1 with scum. I would have no way to fake it.
Why are you trying to convince us you're a PR by flavor when you've already softclaimed? Also no one is gonna cc your name since this is not Winterfell.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I was answering shadow about why I hardclaimed flavor and softclaimed the role. I wasn't trying to say "Vin is always a power role". I'm explaining why I lead with that instead of saying "I'm a doctor". I'm jsut salvaging what I can out of this.
I concede that our votes were similar, but the reason I left that vote was because I was still suspicious, regardless of the day chat WIFOM and I didn't have a good idea of were my vote would be better at the moment. I also had the same meta surprise as Gruff when I drew Avalon Scum. I asked the mod where the link was to day chat and was surprised to hear we didn't even get night chat.
As far as Mind trailing me onto suspicions, I was a little irked by it when it happened with Gruffin, but the AG thing also reminded me of it because I was about to come on and pursue an AG case. I actually don't think it's that bad of a scum play and not as obvious as you imply.
RE: Cyan. I kind of beg to differ on him not throwing accusations toady. I'll make a separate Cyan post
Uh, no. You specifically said that Mind's pointing out the daytalk thing was 'enough for a vote' or whatever. GJ made it clear that wasn't a thing. Even previous suspicion doesn't justify that vote given that the daytalk thing was the tipping point. Also you never answered my question. Why didn't you read GJ's post?
Now, you say that but that's almost exactly what it looks like he's doing with AG. It came out of nowhere and it's REALLY obvious. Maybe I'm wrong about scum not doing that?
I look forward to your Cyan post.
Notes:
Terry/GJ world slightly more likely: Sometimes lazy scum don't read their buddies posts in favor of looking for reasons in town posts to try to get them lynched.
Let me answer your question, with another question. Why aren't you reading MY posts? Lazy scum? See below.
EBWOP: Well it looks like he answered. I really should go through all the new posts before I start replying as I read, but his answer really didn't make me feel any better about him.
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Cool. 14 to go.
I'm actually glad it was you. You were one of the ones I was having trouble with.
Killjoy
Shadowlancerx - While reading his posts didn't make THAT much of an imprssion on me, so I basically had him null. Then he claimed scum and now he's town!
Let me explain my approach to entering the game here: I started by asking some specific players if they would claim scum. I wanted reactions. Only Cyan and Huntz did. Neither made an impression.
So when I figured no one else would do it, I opened it up. This time I was looking the first reaction. I would decide how I felt about it when it was made. So in comes shadow with his yoloscumclaim. Actual scum, I do not think, would just claim "I'm scum" in such a reactionary way. So, I gave him a "probably Town" cookie. Then (and here's the kicker), he says that he was expecting that is what I was doing, and was expecting that result, and asked if I am still townreading him knowing that. Now, there are a bunch of ways a scum would react to being pocketed by a townie so that everyone else in the game doesn't think he's just accepting it like a scum would be apt to do. Asking said town to reevaluate their read is very distinctly not one of them. Additionally, it poses the risk of losing the pocket, another thing the scum distinctly does not want.
So, for that reason, I strongly think shadow is town. His reaction just... wasn't scum.
Gruffinchops - Through general tone and good questions, I've liked where her head is at. Also the Daychat thing gives me very strong town impressions.
Rhand - Rhand is being Rhand. He appears to be in Rhand-solves-the-game mode. I really wanna just pocket him and call it a day but I'm not sure if that's a dangerous thing to do. Maybe tunneling.
Note: Dislike 325. Mindreaver's list and the one in the spoiler are quite different (like the one in the spoiler is actually waffly), and his analysis of it is overly aggressive, and a little unfair. It doesn't SCREAM scum, is what I'm saying. And "probably", Rhand? Really?
Cantripmancer - Similar to Rhand, he's asking pertinent questions and making observations.
Kitbits - Very similar to my read on Gruffinchops, just less strong.
Gentleman Johnny- GJ is in lazy mode. Once he gets going I think maybe he'll become more clear to me.
Bur - Bur is Bur. Bur is null. Bur is life. Also Bur hasn't posted much.
quixotic72 - Literally forgot he was in the game. Barely remember anything Logic did, but I think there was nothing that stuck out as alignment-indicative.
Cyan - Has a bit of a slow start, but it's early. Cyan doesn't get caught D1 usually. You have to wait a bit. Cyan hasn't really started doing scum!Cyan things yet.
Cythare - has posted nothing.
Huntzilla - Hunt is always scummy to me, so he's null till I figure out if he's scum or not.
AtheistGod - He hasn't done much, but there's something off about 231, It's vague and non-commital.
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - I really dislike how he followed Mind onto Gruffin in such an aggressive fashion. Bloodthirsty, like Mind. Nothing else really stuck out.
Mindreaver - His tone and attitude just... doesn't seem town to me, as a whole. I really dislike his vote on Gruffin in 136 for the Daychat slip... it feels... bloodthirsty? Like OOOH TOWN MISTAKE MUST CASH IN as opposed to town who would take a breath and try to figure out if it actually WAS a slip before jumping on it. I also dislike the tone of 217 because it feels more coming from a "Hey, that's unfair!", defensive POV instead of something more analytical.
Note: Mind and Cantrip very likely unaligned.
Also note: two of his townreads are scum to me right now.
Grapefruit21 - I really dislike post 188 because he concludes that his posting comes from a townie mindset, he thinks... but the post before it, 162, he had said if the deadline were in 24 hours, among his preferred lynches was GJ. Which would be fine if there was some indication that he had reconsidered his read or something while writing, but there's nothing in 188 that says that. I think it's a fake townread on GJ.
#1 You like the case against me. But haven't read all my posts. That can come from a scum mindset right? That's definitely in the "gonna pile on without adding anything new, and I'll leave the wagon just as quickly". Combine this with not actually placing a vote. You agree with the case, but aren't going to put a vote there.
#2 You agree with Terry, but at that point, not even Terry agreed with Terry. Series of events: Terry says Cantrip has a different tone than avalon, and is therefore town. Cantrip says "don't toneread me like that, I'm amazing". Terry says "Okay, good point, I won't trust that". You say "I agree with Terry". You don't exactly spell out what you agree with. It's a HUGE stretch to say you meant "I think Cantrip is town due to interactions with Mind, the case, and his different tone from Avalon".
#3 If you in fact meant that you liked the case against me, proposed by Cantrip. AND you also liked his tone. Why isn't he in the list at the bottom? Shadow makes the cut. Rhand too. Explain why you don't specifically mention Cantrip here. The only reason not to include him, at that point, would have been if you thought his argument was bad. Right? Which you stated that you liked the argument. His absence in that list, is indicative of somebody who doesn't have to think about relationships between Cantrip and Mindreaver. Who knows they are both town, and just needs to side with one over the other, and isn't thinking about what the guilt of one of the two means. ie, a scum mindset.
beyond that, you dodged (thank you Gruff) my questions. Explain why you liked the case against me. What about it. No that you've read more from me (you have right?) Where do you stand? Meaning you're more concerned with picking apart my argument than convincing me you're just lazy!town. Hence my exasperation.
Can you tell me why Cyan never gets caught Day 1? He look pretty crappy to me right now.
Also, I need to go back to Mindreaver. Something has kind of bothered me recently about him and it relates to what Killjoy was saying. I feel like when I mentioned that I thought Gruffin could be scum, just a few posts later Mindreaver voted him for a subsequent slip. When I mentioned that I thought AG could be scum, Mindreaver comes in and starts pushing AG. I came on today thinking I was going to put my vote on AG, then I catch up and Mindreaver is already on there. I need to think on this, but it gives me pause to think the top vote getter is pushing the same reads I am.
Still, this general unity is glorious, even humbling, to contemplate. I wish that the nations of mankind hadn't required such a dire threat to make them see the value of peace and cooperation.
Vote Count 1.10 (9 to lynch)
[5] Mindreaver - Cantripmancer, killjoy, Huntzilla, Rhand, shadowlancerx
[2] Bur - Grapefruit21, AtheistGod
[2] AtheistGod - Gentleman Johnny, Mindreaver
[1] killjoy - quixotic72
[1] Cyan - Gruffinchops
[1] Gentleman Johnny - Kitbits
Not Voting: Cythare, Cyan, Bur, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Cythare has requested replacement. I will work on finding a replacement for him quickly.
The deadline is on Friday, March 17th.
@People not voting Mind: What are your thoughts on him being the leading wagon. Are you opposed to his lynch?
@People not voting: Why not?
_______________________________________________
@Gruffin: Do you have a working T/S list currently? Also, you didn't really direct a question at me in your recent post, but if you actually have something for me to address, let me know.
@Hunt: You're again not making an impact, did you roll neighborizor again or are you just not engaged?
@Kitbits: Who are your strongest 2 scum reads after GJ and why?
@GJ: You've made some posts and stuff, but I don't feel any drive coming off of you. Talk to me about where you're at.
I know this isn't my normal textwall (don't hold your breath; that may still be inflicted on you), but I'd really like to start here:
@Rhand: What do you think of Killjoy right now?
RE: Mindweaver wagon. I don't feel great about it right now. I think AG is a better option, based on both of their recent posts.
I have strong town reads on 3 of the people voting Mindreaver, but slight scum reads on Hunt and shadow. :/
I'll look over them both again tonight and place my vote on one of these two definitively.
Mafia Stuff... I wouldn't mind seeing a Mindreaver/AG vote-off
Like I said
I think that makes it pretty clear I've been wrestling for the GJ read.
Do you have a read with GJ since you found my read so fake?
Also, by unaligned, do you mean that Cantrip and I aren't scum together? I'm just curious, because I don't see how me flipping implicates him.
This reads oddly. I'm struggling to see town mindset behind considering your own scum flip and how people look off it. The 'I don't see how me flipping...' part of the post. Like, I get that it's a hypothetical, but something about it feels off. Like you're asking him how Cantrip is cleared after you flip scum, while knowing you're going to flip scum.
Vote: Mindreaver
I'm only about halfway caught up, will try to finish tonight, but refreshing current page caught my eye.
I will try my best to find replacements for both of those two but this may be tough. In the meantime, the deadline will be suspended until I find replacements for both of them.
RIP me.
Why is it "can be from scum"? You are already voting me, shouldn't your arguments be based on "more likely scum than not" rather than "isn't 100% townie"? It sounds like you are arguing against town-clearing me, not arguing that I'm scum. You can look at my previous games if you want, I don't tend to throw my vote around that much day 1. You being my top scum suspect doesn't mean I'm ready to end the day (which I saw as likely given you already sitting at L-2).
It's what I meant. Why is that such a huge stretch? Cantrip sounds very different in this game than he has in the previous games I've played with him (which I believe are 2 scum-Cantrip games and 1 town-Cantrip game (where I got lynched 48 hours into day 1, which reminds me that "your explanation on the meaning behind your posts is a stretch" was the primary force behind that wagon Game Thread)).
I had already mentioned Cantrip. I'm not going to say "Cantrip is town. Also, Cantrip is town." I was listing reads that I hadn't already touched on.
You don't seem to be interested in finding scum. The same pattern is showing up in your case against me. You seem more worried about "makes sense to vote" than "is scum".
You may have done, but your vote and Mind's vote looked exactly the same.
And, perusing your ISO, I do see that you were suspicious of Gruffin prior to Mind doing his thing.
I do not believe Mind saw your scumread and decided to copy it, though. Fabricating a scumread on someone because some other person says they're scumreading them (especially without the other person taking steps to prove it, allowing said scum to /barn for reasons stated) is just a weird thing for scum to do, and is just obviously so scummy that, if the scum is even a little self-concious they wouldn't do it.
Rereading Mind's T/S List, I looked again and I don't see any read or opinon on AG prior to that list.Nope checked again, there isn't one prior to that list. So you may be on to something there.
I want to ask though: Why did you see Mind's scum-slip accusation, but not read GJ's post directly after it explaining the meta?
Cyan is a player that kinda... tempers himself. He kinda throws opinions as he has them. But I haven't seen an accusation Today that's indicative of scum!Cyan. You pretty much need to catch him via a discrepency in his play/ his opinions etc. You need to outthink him. I wouldn't expect simple scumtells like "not scumhunting" and the like to work, especially so early in the game. Although, sometimes he gets help, because sometimes the Tracker targets him every night but he has a redirect that doesn't allow the Tracker to see who his SK self is killing. /salt. You're welcome to push though, Joe. It can't hurt.
Why is that a problem though? He's widely scumread, bussing is a thing.
...Did you miss the part where I said that? Since there was no indication that you actaully reevaluated (most people mention that when they change opinions) then I concluded that you just... forgot you were townreading him or something. I guess it's fair to think maybe you reevaluated given how you go back and forth there. I need to ISO you so I can figure out if it's wrestling or waffling.
No, still no read on GJ. Day 1 GJ is usually lazy and doesn't do much. Not much has stood out from him Today.
Bolding/coloring by me.
Leantown is still a townread.
And 'not aligned' in the way that you guys probably aren't scum together, due to interactions. If you flipped scum, that confirms Cantrip in my mind, and vise versa. If you flip town, nothing happens with Cantrip. That's not how 'not aligned' works.
Sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope they find out what's wrong soon so you can stop worrying :/
About KillJoy: Saying that my post about Mind's T/S is bad while at the same time saying that Mind is scum is weird.
Also, with what he said about the two of us, it seems to make more sense to have you above me in his own T/S, but that's just a detail.
His T/S does reflect my own view of the gamestate, and that's usually a good sign.
So in your mind, I'm townreading 6 people and 2 are your suspects? I'm fine with that. That original post didn't make sense, when I compared our lists. But fine, you're leaning a different way on Terry, which I could understand. Grape is more null than townlean, but whatever, you can make your point if you want. Although "scum reading two of your town reads" is a bit loaded.
@AG - I think I'm at L-3, unless I missed a vote, not L-2. I think it'd be okay if you voted, and got yourself counted on my wagon.
No, No neighborizer this time.
I could give you a bunch of the normal reasons, but it boils down to me being comfortable sitting back Day 1 and listening more than engaging out of the gate.
I'm happy where my votes at right now.
@ Shadow
Do you like KJ's TS list?
Do you AGREE with KJ's TS list?
No it isn't the same question.
As far as Mind trailing me onto suspicions, I was a little irked by it when it happened with Gruffin, but the AG thing also reminded me of it because I was about to come on and pursue an AG case. I actually don't think it's that bad of a scum play and not as obvious as you imply.
RE: Cyan. I kind of beg to differ on him not throwing accusations toady. I'll make a separate Cyan post
I do like his list, it shows a level of effort and critical thinking that I really appreciate from a replacement.
As far as agreeing with it...Well yeah I really do. I've got a few people moved up and down within the same areas, but his view of the gamestate is eerily similar to mine. His putting me as top town is a little eh, like I get why he's town reading me, but having not played against my scum game means he's probably not as cautious as might be deserved.
How do you feel about it? Who are your strongest reads right now, in either direction?
Snow day reread!
Reading back through, you were right to say this at the time.... Are we clost enough yet to hear this answer?
Well, let's see what Bur does over the next few pages after being called scum. Mind mentions: Shadow as scummy; Kit as townie; GJ's interactions. Could be looking to distance or bus based on Rhand's answer. Could be nothing. Worth noting for now. So 50% of the time you were completely wrong, but you feel confident you can read him? Can you explain this a little for me? There were a LOT of people talking about the day chat issue, which took up basically a page. Why didn't you feel others stood out about the setup gaming aspect? Cantrip seemed to be one of the main contributors to the discussion. Do you feel this awards him scum points?
Okay that's enough for now. Bur did not come back and discuss really anything up until page 5. Perhaps the read that scum!Bur bows out is right on?
Cantrip had a lot of good contributions before that.
They will have to be watched carefully, these Terrismen. They could be very dangerous, if given the opportunity and the motivation.
Vote Count 1.11 (9 to lynch)
[6] Mindreaver - Cantripmancer, killjoy, Huntzilla, Rhand, shadowlancerx, quixotic72
[2] Bur - Grapefruit21, AtheistGod
[2] AtheistGod - Gentleman Johnny, Mindreaver
[1] Cyan - Gruffinchops
[1] Gentleman Johnny - Kitbits
Not Voting: Cythare, Cyan, Bur, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Looking for replacements for Cythare and Kitbits. Deadline has been suspended until I find replacements for both.
It's a decent list. Like you mention, there are a few here and there I would move around... most notably Cantrip. I'm not going to award him the town cookie quite yet.
My top three town are you, Rhand, and Kit. After the reread I feel pretty solid on Kit being townie.
Top 3 scum reads are Mindreaver, GJ, Bur; not as sure on the last two there. The whole scum pool I'm working with currently is those three with Logic, Cythare, Cyan, and SJT. I want to definitely lynch in that pool today and see what we get for a flip. Unless Quixotic can impress me enough to be moved out of the pile for today.
Little bit I have read, Hunt feels kind of lolsy, Mind feels weird as well, but fence sitting here as well. Cythare was basically my Champ's rule wolf in my group.
My only issue with my wolf cluster is that I feel like I have no deep wolf. Mindreaver could be that one, but not sure yet. Promise to have more later.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm saying your post is overly aggressive and hyperbolic.
Like: First of all you say it screams scum. There's like... some waffling on AG, and his Terry "more null than town" seems a little weird but nowhere near the level that you're making it out to be.
There's really also nothing wrong with saying Kitbits is "probably" his strongest town read. It's a fairly common idiom.
I'm slso not why your shadow point makes Mind suspicious. Explain that further.
"Hunt smells like a scumbuddy" How? Why is Hunt scum with Mind? Do any of Hunt's posts also give you that impression?
The AG read is the only thing I really agree with in that list.
I guess I'm getting at the that list feels abruptly tunnelly, which is weird.
Funnily enough, those 'notes' I made weren't things I found suspicious. They were just things to keep an eye on.
But the tone of this seems like... you dislike being scumread. Not, like you're suspicious of me for doing it necessarily, but like you [i]dislike[i] being scumread for that. CFTWR I think it's called?
(Also if that last post sounded snarky at you that was not it's intention.)
Do YOU like and/or agree with it? I need more info on your slot. Talk about things.
Oh cool you answered this.
Uh, no. You specifically said that Mind's pointing out the daytalk thing was 'enough for a vote' or whatever. GJ made it clear that wasn't a thing. Even previous suspicion doesn't justify that vote given that the daytalk thing was the tipping point. Also you never answered my question. Why didn't you read GJ's post?
Now, you say that but that's almost exactly what it looks like he's doing with AG. It came out of nowhere and it's REALLY obvious. Maybe I'm wrong about scum not doing that?
I look forward to your Cyan post.
Notes:
Terry/GJ world slightly more likely: Sometimes lazy scum don't read their buddies posts in favor of looking for reasons in town posts to try to get them lynched.
I'm Vin. If you've read the books, she's the main character for most of it, and I have a neat role that should be able to easily prove my alignment if I'm not too unlucky tonight. If I can't, arrest me tomorrow.
Town:
Gruffin - I’m town.
Kit Slot - Transparent, inquistive, and an overall townie tone in each of her posts.
SJT - Skepticism over clearing me, his Shadow read showed natural thought.
Townlean:
Quixotic (Logic) - Logic was willing to look at the game from different angles. Haven’t seen enough from Quixotic one way or the other.
Cantrip - Engaged early on, poking people. I don’t completely trust them, but they should not be lynched today.
Rhand - Similar to Cantrip by being engaged and poking people.
Neutral:
Shadow - Gave me bad vibes early, then shows interest in figuring people out, then had that odd logic in 272.
Mind - Lots of backpedaling in recent posts with Rhand. Still scum hunting under pressure. I’m wary of how quickly/easily his wagon has formed coupled with how long it’s been sustained.
Bur - Has asked a lot of softball questions.
GJ - Had a couple weird moments with his meta argument and inactive hunting.
Null:
Hunt - Posts have left little impression on my mind.
Cythare Slot - I’ve got nothing.
AG - Dodged a question, otherwise I’ve got nothing.
Grape - Haven’t paid much attention to him. A reread is in order.
Scumlean:
Killjoy (Apocado) - Apocado’s opportunistic vote on Mind. Killjoy had a strange entrance, but not something I would consider AI. I’m going to give Killjoy time to redeem the slot, however.
Cyan - Sheeps votes, doesn’t give details about their thought process.
---
I’m pretty wary of this wagon because of how fixated the thread has been on him. It started early, drew a bunch of sheep votes, and has sustained itself up until now. Which makes me wonder why? It’s either that town has its act together while Mind’s buddies are inactive or bussing, OR the scum are sitting back and allowing a lynch on a townie to go through.
Original question: So, by scum reason someone early on, you make them actively vigilant against you, whether that's by appeasing you, having articulately formed posts, and being aware of scrutinizing eyes upon everything you post. Whereas, if you give them a little breathing room, let them focus on other things, which means they aren't on the defensive. If the person in question is actually town, then that mentality should shine through, and if they're scum, you put them in a position where they're more likely to make a mistake, or leave a clue for later, because they aren't so rigidly aware of the attention. That's my take anyway. Hey, now that all the requisite games are over, I wanted to kind of poke holes in your champs rule. Both of the games I've been scum (Bare Bones and Overwatch) and not followed champs rule at all. I feel like you should maybe scum hunt first, and use it as a support tool instead of leaning on it. Why claim the flavor early, and soft claim power?
Or I'll get shot in the face. Should be interesting either way