Ooooo i am actually now happy with my hunt and cyan scumteam.
Cyans reply was gross.
And hunts claim is equally gross.
Yeah, logic does seem like something that would be 'gross' to you.
Why are you so mad?
It was said before, hunt could be distancing himself from you. Logic! :educate:
I'm 'mad'(not really) because I honestly wouldn't have ever signed up for a game that your name was on the player list for, but I'm also not going to replace out because of it.
And there is no logical application of bussing/distancing/anything in the situation you are prescribing. I literally already explained this.
Ooooo i am actually now happy with my hunt and cyan scumteam.
Cyans reply was gross.
And hunts claim is equally gross.
Yeah, logic does seem like something that would be 'gross' to you.
Why are you so mad?
It was said before, hunt could be distancing himself from you. Logic! :educate:
I'm 'mad'(not really) because I honestly wouldn't have ever signed up for a game that your name was on the player list for, but I'm also not going to replace out because of it.
And there is no logical application of bussing/distancing/anything in the situation you are prescribing. I literally already explained this.
Well that is poor sportsmanship. And kinda mean.
Cyan, i'm not that bad. Now you are exaggerating.
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
I suppose it is mean, but I can't do anything about that.
It's not 'poor sportsmanship' to not want to be in games with certain players. There are certainly people that feel this way about me, and that's okay. Sometimes we just rub each other the wrong way. It is what it is.
Ok, I've caught up. I hate bulletproof claims. I think the wagon on Hunt is a good one, and without the claim, I'd be for his lynch. But if he's town bulletproof, he's worth keeping around as he's good at generating interactions. I think I would be open to lynching him, still, based on behavior/responses, but if we don't, I think Grape is a good second choice. Rhand's case on him was compelling, and I've had a lot of "Oh, Grape's town. No, he's scum. Oh, wait, he's town..." moments, so resolving him would be helpful. The downside is that we're a day from deadline. I don't know if the rest of the wagon will build fast enough, nor if we'll be able to tell anything from it if it does.
Feel free to unvote anytime, and move onto AG or Cyan.
Ugh. This claim hurts my brains. I doubt Huntz is scum bulletproof, so either he's town or he's lying...
*sigh* I guess I need to ISO him, I'll be back soon.
Why don't you think he could be scum bulletproof?
Let's save this for some another time, okay?
Eh, it's sorta relevant now given about a day before deadline. If there's a solid reason that he's not scum bulletproof, then he's town bulletproof, and shouldn't be lynched. But he's still getting plenty of pressure, so if you see something...now is pretty much the time.
I'm not entirely sure how many votes Hunt actually has, so I guess consider my vote on him for the time being, with willingness to vote Grape if needed. Sorry, that's a crappy position to be in this close to deadline, but I promise I'll devote more time to this D2.
@Shadow my logic read is based on knowing his meta and I'd prefer not to get into it because it is a bit angleshooty and still not enough to give me full confidence. Want more from Qui but I'm coming from a position of town lean.
As for those 4 I so subscribe to the theory that there will usually be scum at the bottom of the post count and those 4 even with my town leans are all lurking near the bottom and need clarification.
@Cantrip: I have no idea whether Huntzilla is bulletproof. It's just that for *reasons* that I doubt that this game has scum bulletproof, which points that Huntzilla is either lying about being bulletproof or is honest about his claim.
Which brings me to my next point: I read Huntzilla. I saw nothing indicating that he's bulletproof (no breadcrumbs etc.), but there's also nothing conflicting his claim in his earlier posts.
Was there a case on him (or something)? Since, even after reading Huntzilla, I don't feel strong about him either way. There were few things that made me (like claiming at L-4) and few things that I liked (how he questions grape's "meta read" on me), but in the end, Huntzilla still remains in my neutral pile. I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing in Huntz.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Bur my phone is acting up and can't link it but I laid out a case in 445. The main point is the inconsistency of his reads throughout to his town three town and scum he gives Shadow.
I'm willing to vote AG at this deadline, but will need more from Hunt claim like he did isn't enough right now given his behavior.
@Shadow Your behavioral town list tracks pretty well with what I'm feeling too I currently have TRJST as my third but I agree on the first two. So we disagree there, but I feel pretty good about him. I really liked his entrance so I may be stuck on that, but for now I'm happy. I'm much less confident in Cantrip but I would have him very close to my town lean group of logic/Qui, GJ, and Cyan (who is creeping up my town list). It probably would be cantrip, but much much lower confidence than Rodemy or Gruffin. None of this seems outside his scum range to me.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
I claimed because I knew where my wagon was headed, and since we have very little time left in the day, I needed to get it out there so that we had plenty of time to discuss it. Last thing I want is some nonsense CFD at the last second that doesn't allow town to reevaluate after my flip.
@Hunt: do you think Cyan and AG are scum together?
Can you provide a full t/s with reasonings?
I will get to the T/S list tomorrow night before the end of day.
As for those two being scum together, hell yeah I think so. I think Cyan would be happy to bus the ever-lovin-***** outta what he would perceive as a "weak" team mate.
@Grapefruit: Go into specifics with your Logic/quixotic town read, that doesn't track so far to me.
Additionally, you say you think there is one wolf in quix, GJ, bur, and Fulcrum, but you have both quix and GJ in your townlean. Where do you pull that specific grouping from?
_________________________________________________
Hunt, your claim surprises me; how much of your play today has been intentionally cagey?
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@Rhand: that game looked like it coincided with some rough irl stuff, you don't have another scum game near the same time do you? That was already fairly long ago, if it goes much farther back don't worry about it, I doubt I'll see what I'm looking for.
I'm also intentionally cagey. I play by my own rules and style. I'm not going to conform just because.
I don't know why, but I don't believe this claim. Vote Stands.
Also, it'd be a great way for your scum team to get rid of a BP right?
Anyways, I was about to get behind the Hunt lynch, but the claim has me feeling a bit hesitant. I'll reread him with the claim in mind.
I'm not feeling confident on a Grapefruit lynch and I'd prefer a Cyan lynch or an AG lynch.
This is not how a scum mindset works when it comes to players like Huntzilla.
And come on, his behavior makes no sense. Nobody opens their role PM, sees 'Town Bulletproof' and immediatedly thinks to themselves, "I'm going to act in such a fashion that ensures I get wagoned and have to claim, thus removing all utility from my role'. That is nonsense.
You're wrong. And I can't wait to see you flip after me.
@Shadow Your behavioral town list tracks pretty well with what I'm feeling too I currently have TRJST as my third but I agree on the first two. So we disagree there, but I feel pretty good about him. I really liked his entrance so I may be stuck on that, but for now I'm happy. I'm much less confident in Cantrip but I would have him very close to my town lean group of logic/Qui, GJ, and Cyan (who is creeping up my town list). It probably would be cantrip, but much much lower confidence than Rodemy or Gruffin. None of this seems outside his scum range to me.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
IDK if it's the same for everyone but for me it gets a bit overwhelming. Lots of info in a short space of time with everyone waiting for you to do something etc.
If your actual interest is seeing what a conf!town is doing in a game, reading other games can provide several, since the game is over and everyone's alignments are revealed.
Two PR claims. One bulletproof, and one proveable unknown. This is pretty much Hunt or Grape at this stage. Do we really want to try another rock and take a risk? I admit, I am hesitating on Hunt a bit as he did the same thing in Starcraft where he slanked all fricken day and then turned it up under pressure where I think in his wolf games, he stays slanky under pressure.
Ehhhhhh
I dislike this post. It reads as really scummy.
Deadline is tomorrow, and Hunt didn't answer me. His progression doesn't makes sense re: His vote.
Hunt is a fine lynch today. Vote Huntzilla
Sorry KJ, I missed it. What did you want me to answer?
I go to sleep for a weekend, and we're off AG? Did he ever come back? I must be missing something.
If guess if my choices at the end of today are Hunt or Grape, I'd be more interested in going after Grape, just based on those wagons.
Is there a good post detailing the Hunt/AG connection I can look at? That's probably the only way I'm voting hunt, if I can be convinced they are a team.
Town
Rhand - Town reading him for the same reasons he was town reading me. Getting over always feeling he is scum, and nothing this game has pointed to a scum!Rhand mindset. Think back to our convo in the Neighbor chat Rhand.
Gruffin - Natural question posing. Moved up my list as the day went on.
Killjoy/Apocado - Comfortable with his questions and entrance. Apocado was, meh. Killjoy has been himself.
Lean town
Shadow - I think we both ended up town like we hoped...
Mind - Claim puts him here. Before that I woulda lynched.
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
TRSJT - Opposing my lynch today is not something I can see from a scum who isn't knowledgeable of me.
LYNCH LINE
Null
GJ - I can at least understand his push on me. It doesn't look or feel malicious.
Cantripmancer - Like I've said, I'm not convinced that Cantrip can't skate through on what he's posted today as scum. But it isn't enough to move him either way. I need more.
Grapefruit - Feels... sneaky. Calculated responses and like he's holding back.
Quixotic/Logic - What the hell has this slot done all game?
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare - Has avoided making an opinion on my wagon. Reads as scared to push the mislynch.
Bur - Fencesit on me seems pretty scummy from a guy with so much experience with me.
Scum
AG - See the PbPA I did
Cyan - Mr. No Brakes now just needs me dead because he can't change opinion without looking foolish. Please for the love of god when I flip town murder his scum ass.
Hunt your read on me doesn't seem like I'm in a null pile. I also don't see your Killjoy read at all can you explain that one a bit more to me? Apart from that your worldview makes sense to me, I disagree on Cyan but it seems reasonable in a world where you're town. That and the early claim to avoid last second chaos is something I can empathize with.
Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.
Hmm. A bulletproof. This claim isn’t doing much to change my mind, honestly. Not exactly a provable role, and not one that is exclusively town. Something I want to note is that I didn't like Cyan's reaction to the claim. Felt a little too dismissive.
Also, If necessary, I’ll consider voting any of my neutral/null reads as a compromise lynch, though I’d rather not lynch a lurker.
Bur’s vagueness is not impressing me, but it seems to be for a reason. Hoping that it will become clear later on.
@Killjoy I avoided the wagon because I thought that scum could have been piling on to Mind.
Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.
?????
If there’s scum between Hunt and Cyan, why don’t you want to lynch one of them?
I want to lynch AG because I see him as scum. Before I saw him as a buddy for Hunt, which still makes sense. In both scum cyan and scum Hunt world I see scum AG so it makes more sense to lynch him first in that case.
With the deadline in ~24 hours, of these possible wagons, my preferred lynch is Grapefruit, because I can't shake the nagging feeling that he's just really good at telling me what I want to hear, and I don't think I'll be able to find a decent pulse on this game without seeing his flip.
I'd rather not lynch AG, not because I have a great read on him, he's not made an impact on me whatsoever, but because he feels like a settle lynch in the same way he was in bare bones. Not really present, but not overtly scummy. I've seen AG's townieness show up strong before, and I'd like to see if that happens.
I guess I'd vote hunt if it came to that in the deadline, he's a role that will be basically impossible to ever knock out of the PoE. I still feel like he could be town here though.
I had a thought. I think it might be a good idea to save figuring out Hunt for tomorrow and look elsewhere, for reasons.
I'll stick with Bur's wanting to lynch Hunt for 'reasons' instead.
On the one hand, I kind of just want to move my vote to AG, because he also seems highly likely to be scum. On the other hand, if he flips scum, I'm still just going to want to lynch Hunt anyway so.
@Shadow or maybe I'm just town getting run up for playing a gambit?
I'm very worried about getting run up as a compromise lynch. And I'm in a very bad spot this close to deadline so claim time.
I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.
@Shadow or maybe I'm just town getting run up for playing a gambit?
I'm very worried about getting run up as a compromise lynch. And I'm in a very bad spot this close to deadline so claim time.
I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.
This creates a flat dichotomy with Huntzilla's claim, in my opinion. Either one of them is lying, or, one of them(at leasT) is scum. My money is obviously on Hunt.
I want to lynch AG because I see him as scum. Before I saw him as a buddy for Hunt, which still makes sense. In both scum cyan and scum Hunt world I see scum AG so it makes more sense to lynch him first in that case.
Are you willing to lynch him without a claim? Because I'm pretty sure that's what is going to happen if we switch to AG now.
@Shadow or maybe I'm just town getting run up for playing a gambit?
I'm very worried about getting run up as a compromise lynch. And I'm in a very bad spot this close to deadline so claim time.
I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.
This creates a flat dichotomy with Huntzilla's claim, in my opinion. Either one of them is lying, or, one of them(at leasT) is scum. My money is obviously on Hunt.
You're a bit quick declaring a flat dichotomy in a 16-player game. Grape claimed a 1-shot ability. How is that incompatible with a BP?
Town
Rhand - Town reading him for the same reasons he was town reading me. Getting over always feeling he is scum, and nothing this game has pointed to a scum!Rhand mindset. Think back to our convo in the Neighbor chat Rhand.
Gruffin - Natural question posing. Moved up my list as the day went on.
Killjoy/Apocado - Comfortable with his questions and entrance. Apocado was, meh. Killjoy has been himself.
Lean town
Shadow - I think we both ended up town like we hoped...
Mind - Claim puts him here. Before that I woulda lynched.
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
TRSJT - Opposing my lynch today is not something I can see from a scum who isn't knowledgeable of me.
LYNCH LINE
Null
GJ - I can at least understand his push on me. It doesn't look or feel malicious.
Cantripmancer - Like I've said, I'm not convinced that Cantrip can't skate through on what he's posted today as scum. But it isn't enough to move him either way. I need more.
Grapefruit - Feels... sneaky. Calculated responses and like he's holding back.
Quixotic/Logic - What the hell has this slot done all game?
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare - Has avoided making an opinion on my wagon. Reads as scared to push the mislynch.
Bur - Fencesit on me seems pretty scummy from a guy with so much experience with me.
Scum
AG - See the PbPA I did
Cyan - Mr. No Brakes now just needs me dead because he can't change opinion without looking foolish. Please for the love of god when I flip town murder his scum ass.
Why did you literally copy my kitbits/rodemy read? And why say Rodemy is being his town self if your read didn't come from Rodemy but from Kitbits?
Many think that my journey started in Khlennium, that great city of wonder. They forget that I was no king when my quest began. Far from it.
I think it would do men well to remember that this task was not begun by emperors, priests, prophets, or generals. It didn't start in Khlennium or Kordel, nor did it come from the great nations to the east or the fiery empire of the West.
It began in a small, unimportant town whose name would mean nothing to you. It began with a youth, the son of a blacksmith, who was unremarkable in every way--except, perhaps, in his ability to get into trouble.
Mindreaver, JoeTerry, Cantripmancer, AtheistGod, and fulcrum have been prodded.
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st, at midnight EST. If the deadline has passed without 9 votes on somebody, the day will end in a no lynch.
I'm not going to be around until after the deadline, but I can try to pop in for 10-15 minutes prior to EoD. If someone wants to quote one of my posts and lay out a concise case against someone at that point, I'll throw my vote there to secure a lynch, but I won't be back from V/LA until night phase or early D2, sorry.
@Rhand: Looks like he copypasta'd your reads list. The fact that the kitbits read didn't change means he didn't put much thought into that list.
I think that's a scumpost.
@Gruffin: I mean, that's a decent reason to avoid a wagon. Why would I heckle you for that?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You're a bit quick declaring a flat dichotomy in a 16-player game. Grape claimed a 1-shot ability. How is that incompatible with a BP?
You guys act like 16 players is some huge game. It's not. It's middle sized. Presumably there are 4 mafia in a game this size. That leaves 12 townies assuming no neutrals. Are we really supposed to believe that 2 of them have the ability to directly avoid getting NKed? Keep in mind, Grapefruit's ability is far more powerful when kept secret, because if it prevents a kill, the scum have no idea how it happened. Plus whatever Bur is hinting at.
Also, Hunt can't even keep his answers to me straight. In one post he's claiming I'm scum, in the next he's making statements like:
What are you goin to do when I flip town bulletproof? Where does that point you?
Clearly implying that I'm misguided town and he's just trying to shake me(ironically GJ tried EXACTLY this in Disinheritance, as scum, and it didn't work).
Then in his most recent post T/S List, I'm scum again. He flatly can't keep his story straight.
I'm never going to believe that a Town BP is going to directly approach the game in a way that encourages people to wagon him. I'm just not. It's much more likely here that he is scum than he is town.
Town
Rhand - Town reading him for the same reasons he was town reading me. Getting over always feeling he is scum, and nothing this game has pointed to a scum!Rhand mindset. Think back to our convo in the Neighbor chat Rhand.
Gruffin - Natural question posing. Moved up my list as the day went on.
Killjoy/Apocado - Comfortable with his questions and entrance. Apocado was, meh. Killjoy has been himself.
Lean town
Shadow - I think we both ended up town like we hoped...
Mind - Claim puts him here. Before that I woulda lynched.
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
TRSJT - Opposing my lynch today is not something I can see from a scum who isn't knowledgeable of me.
LYNCH LINE
Null
GJ - I can at least understand his push on me. It doesn't look or feel malicious.
Cantripmancer - Like I've said, I'm not convinced that Cantrip can't skate through on what he's posted today as scum. But it isn't enough to move him either way. I need more.
Grapefruit - Feels... sneaky. Calculated responses and like he's holding back.
Quixotic/Logic - What the hell has this slot done all game?
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare - Has avoided making an opinion on my wagon. Reads as scared to push the mislynch.
Bur - Fencesit on me seems pretty scummy from a guy with so much experience with me.
Scum
AG - See the PbPA I did
Cyan - Mr. No Brakes now just needs me dead because he can't change opinion without looking foolish. Please for the love of god when I flip town murder his scum ass.
Why did you literally copy my kitbits/rodemy read? And why say Rodemy is being his town self if your read didn't come from Rodemy but from Kitbits?
I used your list to help format mine. Just missed changing kitbits/Rodemy, but it should be no surprise I have that slot town. They both were pinging me as townie.
You're a bit quick declaring a flat dichotomy in a 16-player game. Grape claimed a 1-shot ability. How is that incompatible with a BP?
You guys act like 16 players is some huge game. It's not. It's middle sized. Presumably there are 4 mafia in a game this size. That leaves 12 townies assuming no neutrals. Are we really supposed to believe that 2 of them have the ability to directly avoid getting NKed? Keep in mind, Grapefruit's ability is far more powerful when kept secret, because if it prevents a kill, the scum have no idea how it happened. Plus whatever Bur is hinting at.
Also, Hunt can't even keep his answers to me straight. In one post he's claiming I'm scum, in the next he's making statements like:
What are you goin to do when I flip town bulletproof? Where does that point you?
Clearly implying that I'm misguided town and he's just trying to shake me(ironically GJ tried EXACTLY this in Disinheritance, as scum, and it didn't work).
Then in his most recent post T/S List, I'm scum again. He flatly can't keep his story straight.
I'm never going to believe that a Town BP is going to directly approach the game in a way that encourages people to wagon him. I'm just not. It's much more likely here that he is scum than he is town.
see, you're not getting it again. Asking you that question just highlights the fact that you aren't thinking about the game. You need me dead. As scum you need to get me lynched. So you just keep throwing all of your eggs in one basket. As town, you'd at least have had an answer to the question. You're so scum it hurts that others are too scared to vote you.
I had a thought. I think it might be a good idea to save figuring out Hunt for tomorrow and look elsewhere, for reasons.
I'll stick with Bur's wanting to lynch Hunt for 'reasons' instead.
On the one hand, I kind of just want to move my vote to AG, because he also seems highly likely to be scum. On the other hand, if he flips scum, I'm still just going to want to lynch Hunt anyway so.
see, you're disconnected from the game. Bur doesn't want to Lynch me.
@Cantrip: I have no idea whether Huntzilla is bulletproof. It's just that for *reasons* that I doubt that this game has scum bulletproof, which points that Huntzilla is either lying about being bulletproof or is honest about his claim.
Which brings me to my next point: I read Huntzilla. I saw nothing indicating that he's bulletproof (no breadcrumbs etc.), but there's also nothing conflicting his claim in his earlier posts.
Was there a case on him (or something)? Since, even after reading Huntzilla, I don't feel strong about him either way. There were few things that made me (like claiming at L-4) and few things that I liked (how he questions grape's "meta read" on me), but in the end, Huntzilla still remains in my neutral pile. I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing in Huntz.
@Grapefruit: What's the name of your ability AND the name of your role?
What bothers me at the moment is the lack of reaction from both Huntz and Grape (especially him) to each others claim.
After Huntz claims, Grape only comments "Why did you claim at L-4" and nothing else. Likewise, Huntzilla doesn't even react to Grape's claim to 1-shot triple hider and this bothers me.
I would've expected something, anything from them but not just basically ignoring each others role...
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Bur Hunt answered my question of why the early claim with he wanted to avoid a CFD. Since I was a very likely a leading candidate to get lynched if Hunt wasn't today and got my claim out since I am busy from now till phase change with sleep and then work. I did not see our roles as mutually exclusive to both be town. Role is cloaker, ability is smoker.
@Rhand I'm not willing to lynch anyone except AG without a claim right now. AG I'm happy to lynch regardless.
@Cyan I'd argue my utility does not dip anywhere near as much as Huntz does by being public. I can still make scum drink lot's of wine.
@Grapefruit: What's the name of your ability AND the name of your role?
What bothers me at the moment is the lack of reaction from both Huntz and Grape (especially him) to each others claim.
After Huntz claims, Grape only comments "Why did you claim at L-4" and nothing else. Likewise, Huntzilla doesn't even react to Grape's claim to 1-shot triple hider and this bothers me.
I would've expected something, anything from them but not just basically ignoring each others role...
it's not gonna help my case, but "Thug" is the name.
Also, theread is a valid reason I was avoiding Grape's claim. I didnt want to discuss the limitation on mine, because it's scarier to scum if they don't know it, but my BP is 1-shot. Now the utility of my role is utterly destroyed.
@Huntzilla: Why did you use Rhand's list as a base for your own? I don't think it takes much time to copy+paste the player list from the first page, so why go for the Rhand's list and use that instead? I thought it would've been easier to just for to the first page of this game thread than look for Rhand's post from few pages back...
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Huntzilla: Why did you use Rhand's list as a base for your own? I don't think it takes much time to copy+paste the player list from the first page, so why go for the Rhand's list and use that instead? I thought it would've been easier to just for to the first page of this game thread than look for Rhand's post from few pages back...
The fact he kept the kit/me read is what really bothers me. Didn't even try to reconcile it with his own read. Just "both read town"
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@Huntzilla: Why did you use Rhand's list as a base for your own? I don't think it takes much time to copy+paste the player list from the first page, so why go for the Rhand's list and use that instead? I thought it would've been easier to just for to the first page of this game thread than look for Rhand's post from few pages back...
just personal preference. I remembered Rhand being nice and knew it wasn't far.
I didn't want to use the OP list. Just don't like doing that.
@Huntzilla: Why did you use Rhand's list as a base for your own? I don't think it takes much time to copy+paste the player list from the first page, so why go for the Rhand's list and use that instead? I thought it would've been easier to just for to the first page of this game thread than look for Rhand's post from few pages back...
The fact he kept the kit/me read is what really bothers me. Didn't even try to reconcile it with his own read. Just "both read town"
Yeah I'm sorry I didn't replace what was written with my own thoughts, but your placement was correct. It was no secret I had you as town.
If you think it isn't town, that's your own prerogative man, but to me, scum reading how a TS list is super lazy. There is a ton of interaction and information out there. To want someone dead for that is stupid.
Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I'd remained there, in that lazy village of my birth. I'd have become a smith, like my father. Perhaps I'd have a family, sons of my own.
Perhaps someone else would have come to carry this terrible burden. Someone who could bear it far better than I. Someone who deserved to be a hero.
Not Voting: fulcrum, Bur, Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx
quixotic is V/LA for this week.
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st (today!), at midnight EST - in 12 hours. If the deadline has passed without 9 votes on somebody, the day will end in a no lynch.
At first glance, I could see where people are seeing Hunt just "copying" Rhand's reads, but I'm not sure I agree. It's obvious that's where he started, but he made significant category changes (me, SJT, Killjoy), and his reasoning for people is original/different from Rhand. That said, it still strikes me as odd to start with Rhand's list rather than the OP (or your own from notes). And it wouldn't take much to springboard Rhand's list into a "personalized" list as scum. Combined with the slight overlap between Hunt's and Grape's claims, I think there's a fair chance that Hunt is scum, and I'd rather lynch him than try to wagon someone else, especially with the chance that we might have to lynch without a claim. Grape's claim seems much more creative and like something that would exist on a town role (maybe on scum as an anti-vig measure, but seems less likely to me).
I iso'd cyan and I just don't see malintent. I see him being a jerk, but not a scummy one.
If we lynch AG, it will probably without a claim, unless he shows up. And I still feel like that is just not a solid lynch. We need to figure out your slot. If you flip town you can bet I'm going to do my due diligence to analyze that, but I just don't see a lynch being better than yours anymore.
You say in 385 that shadow is one of your top townreads, but say in 108 that you were *almost* willing to vote him. What did shadow do to get from that point to one of your top townreads? What was your thought process in deciding this?
Can you detail for me the exact reasons you think Cyan is scum? Like with posts etc.?
When you were asked in 555 by Rodemy who on your wagon is scum, you said only Cyan. When asked effectively the same by Gruff just two posts later, you said Grape could also be scum. Why did you not consider Grape when asked by Rodemy?
You kinda just said town!Rodemy is when Rodemy is town. Expand further.
And it turns out that thing where you 'missed my question', was wrong. Wrong game.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yeah, logic does seem like something that would be 'gross' to you.
Why are you so mad?
It was said before, hunt could be distancing himself from you. Logic! :educate:
I'm 'mad'(not really) because I honestly wouldn't have ever signed up for a game that your name was on the player list for, but I'm also not going to replace out because of it.
And there is no logical application of bussing/distancing/anything in the situation you are prescribing. I literally already explained this.
Well that is poor sportsmanship. And kinda mean.
Cyan, i'm not that bad. Now you are exaggerating.
It's not 'poor sportsmanship' to not want to be in games with certain players. There are certainly people that feel this way about me, and that's okay. Sometimes we just rub each other the wrong way. It is what it is.
Eh, it's sorta relevant now given about a day before deadline. If there's a solid reason that he's not scum bulletproof, then he's town bulletproof, and shouldn't be lynched. But he's still getting plenty of pressure, so if you see something...now is pretty much the time.
I'm not entirely sure how many votes Hunt actually has, so I guess consider my vote on him for the time being, with willingness to vote Grape if needed. Sorry, that's a crappy position to be in this close to deadline, but I promise I'll devote more time to this D2.
As for those 4 I so subscribe to the theory that there will usually be scum at the bottom of the post count and those 4 even with my town leans are all lurking near the bottom and need clarification.
Which brings me to my next point: I read Huntzilla. I saw nothing indicating that he's bulletproof (no breadcrumbs etc.), but there's also nothing conflicting his claim in his earlier posts.
Was there a case on him (or something)? Since, even after reading Huntzilla, I don't feel strong about him either way. There were few things that made me (like claiming at L-4) and few things that I liked (how he questions grape's "meta read" on me), but in the end, Huntzilla still remains in my neutral pile. I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing in Huntz.
I'm willing to vote AG at this deadline, but will need more from Hunt claim like he did isn't enough right now given his behavior.
I will get to the T/S list tomorrow night before the end of day.
As for those two being scum together, hell yeah I think so. I think Cyan would be happy to bus the ever-lovin-***** outta what he would perceive as a "weak" team mate. I'm also intentionally cagey. I play by my own rules and style. I'm not going to conform just because. What are you goin to do when I flip town bulletproof? Where does that point you? You're wrong. And I can't wait to see you flip after me. Sorry KJ, I missed it. What did you want me to answer? No, the case was I said nothing about him.
Town
Rhand - Town reading him for the same reasons he was town reading me. Getting over always feeling he is scum, and nothing this game has pointed to a scum!Rhand mindset. Think back to our convo in the Neighbor chat Rhand.
Gruffin - Natural question posing. Moved up my list as the day went on.
Killjoy/Apocado - Comfortable with his questions and entrance. Apocado was, meh. Killjoy has been himself.
Lean town
Shadow - I think we both ended up town like we hoped...
Mind - Claim puts him here. Before that I woulda lynched.
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
TRSJT - Opposing my lynch today is not something I can see from a scum who isn't knowledgeable of me.
LYNCH LINE
Null
GJ - I can at least understand his push on me. It doesn't look or feel malicious.
Cantripmancer - Like I've said, I'm not convinced that Cantrip can't skate through on what he's posted today as scum. But it isn't enough to move him either way. I need more.
Grapefruit - Feels... sneaky. Calculated responses and like he's holding back.
Quixotic/Logic - What the hell has this slot done all game?
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare - Has avoided making an opinion on my wagon. Reads as scared to push the mislynch.
Bur - Fencesit on me seems pretty scummy from a guy with so much experience with me.
Scum
AG - See the PbPA I did
Cyan - Mr. No Brakes now just needs me dead because he can't change opinion without looking foolish. Please for the love of god when I flip town murder his scum ass.
Unvote
Vote: AtheistGod
I haven't read any of the reasoning against you, as should be obvious. Why kind of opinion, exactly, where you expecting?
Also, If necessary, I’ll consider voting any of my neutral/null reads as a compromise lynch, though I’d rather not lynch a lurker.
Bur’s vagueness is not impressing me, but it seems to be for a reason. Hoping that it will become clear later on.
@Killjoy I avoided the wagon because I thought that scum could have been piling on to Mind.
?????
If there’s scum between Hunt and Cyan, why don’t you want to lynch one of them?
I'd rather not lynch AG, not because I have a great read on him, he's not made an impact on me whatsoever, but because he feels like a settle lynch in the same way he was in bare bones. Not really present, but not overtly scummy. I've seen AG's townieness show up strong before, and I'd like to see if that happens.
I guess I'd vote hunt if it came to that in the deadline, he's a role that will be basically impossible to ever knock out of the PoE. I still feel like he could be town here though.
I'll stick with Bur's wanting to lynch Hunt for 'reasons' instead.
On the one hand, I kind of just want to move my vote to AG, because he also seems highly likely to be scum. On the other hand, if he flips scum, I'm still just going to want to lynch Hunt anyway so.
I'm very worried about getting run up as a compromise lynch. And I'm in a very bad spot this close to deadline so claim time.
I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.
This creates a flat dichotomy with Huntzilla's claim, in my opinion. Either one of them is lying, or, one of them(at leasT) is scum. My money is obviously on Hunt.
Are you willing to lynch him without a claim? Because I'm pretty sure that's what is going to happen if we switch to AG now.
You're a bit quick declaring a flat dichotomy in a 16-player game. Grape claimed a 1-shot ability. How is that incompatible with a BP?
Why did you literally copy my kitbits/rodemy read? And why say Rodemy is being his town self if your read didn't come from Rodemy but from Kitbits?
I'm not going to be around until after the deadline, but I can try to pop in for 10-15 minutes prior to EoD. If someone wants to quote one of my posts and lay out a concise case against someone at that point, I'll throw my vote there to secure a lynch, but I won't be back from V/LA until night phase or early D2, sorry.
I think that's a scumpost.
@Gruffin: I mean, that's a decent reason to avoid a wagon. Why would I heckle you for that?
You guys act like 16 players is some huge game. It's not. It's middle sized. Presumably there are 4 mafia in a game this size. That leaves 12 townies assuming no neutrals. Are we really supposed to believe that 2 of them have the ability to directly avoid getting NKed? Keep in mind, Grapefruit's ability is far more powerful when kept secret, because if it prevents a kill, the scum have no idea how it happened. Plus whatever Bur is hinting at.
Also, Hunt can't even keep his answers to me straight. In one post he's claiming I'm scum, in the next he's making statements like:
Clearly implying that I'm misguided town and he's just trying to shake me(ironically GJ tried EXACTLY this in Disinheritance, as scum, and it didn't work).
Then in his most recent post T/S List, I'm scum again. He flatly can't keep his story straight.
I'm never going to believe that a Town BP is going to directly approach the game in a way that encourages people to wagon him. I'm just not. It's much more likely here that he is scum than he is town.
Well, given our limited history, I figured you'd bring up some meta excuse and want me dead.
Why are you lying Cyan?
@Grapefruit: What's the name of your ability AND the name of your role?
What bothers me at the moment is the lack of reaction from both Huntz and Grape (especially him) to each others claim.
After Huntz claims, Grape only comments "Why did you claim at L-4" and nothing else. Likewise, Huntzilla doesn't even react to Grape's claim to 1-shot triple hider and this bothers me.
I would've expected something, anything from them but not just basically ignoring each others role...
@Rhand I'm not willing to lynch anyone except AG without a claim right now. AG I'm happy to lynch regardless.
@Cyan I'd argue my utility does not dip anywhere near as much as Huntz does by being public. I can still make scum drink lot's of wine.
Also, theread is a valid reason I was avoiding Grape's claim. I didnt want to discuss the limitation on mine, because it's scarier to scum if they don't know it, but my BP is 1-shot. Now the utility of my role is utterly destroyed.
I'm not sure what I want to do here.
You literally moved a few people around but kept the same overall reads as rhand.
Same order too... that sounds super lazy and not town whatsoever.
The fact he kept the kit/me read is what really bothers me. Didn't even try to reconcile it with his own read. Just "both read town"
I didn't want to use the OP list. Just don't like doing that.
None of this seems alignment indicative.
If you think it isn't town, that's your own prerogative man, but to me, scum reading how a TS list is super lazy. There is a ton of interaction and information out there. To want someone dead for that is stupid.
Help me kill Cyan or AG.
Perhaps someone else would have come to carry this terrible burden. Someone who could bear it far better than I. Someone who deserved to be a hero.
Vote Count 1.17 (9 to lynch)
[5] Huntzilla - Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Gruffinchops, Rodemy, killjoy
[3] AtheistGod - Mindreaver, Huntzilla, Grapefruit21
[1] Grapefruit21 - Rhand
[1] Cyan - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] Bur - AtheistGod
[1] Mindreaver - quixotic72
Not Voting: fulcrum, Bur, Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx
quixotic is V/LA for this week.
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st (today!), at midnight EST - in 12 hours. If the deadline has passed without 9 votes on somebody, the day will end in a no lynch.
Vote Huntzilla
Hunt, if you're town, sorry. :/
If we lynch AG, it will probably without a claim, unless he shows up. And I still feel like that is just not a solid lynch. We need to figure out your slot. If you flip town you can bet I'm going to do my due diligence to analyze that, but I just don't see a lynch being better than yours anymore.
Vote Hunt
Both. I've said this many times now.
And it turns out that thing where you 'missed my question', was wrong. Wrong game.