GJ just wants to kill whoever. Seriously, read his last couple pages. He's content with anyone dying basically. I'm trying to figure out if it's just lazy or malicious. Other than that, nobody with gravitas is as worried about me.
As for AG, I have no dog in that fight. Dude is null to me currentlyrics, oohing pinged me either way. Not going to be bullied into an opinion that isn't formed yet.
1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.
2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.
@Shadow I read your Iso after getting excited that I'd caught you and Huntz as scum buddies and it doesn't really look that scummy at all.
I do have a couple of lingering questions from it though, you have twice voted me for reasons you haven't articulated well. How much of this second vote was lingering suspicion from your first vote on me vs actually scum reading my greeting to Fulcrum?
The linger suspicion was about 90%, the other 10% was a visceral reaction I had to your post to Fulcrum. I really don't know why I hated it so much, but I did.
Quote from Grapefruit »
Second you have left the window open to revote in most of your unvotes, why?
Because I have too many town reads to feel confident at town clearing anyone except maybe Gruffin and Mindreaver (obviously pending night actions).
Quote from Grapefruit »
Last you snapped pretty quickly from voting me with Bur as a likely partner, to asking Bur for his opinion of me, to voting Bur, then back to voting me. It's a progression I had a hard time following, can you explain what you were thinking?
I voted you in the first place because I liked what Rhand had posted regarding you, and around that same time I was tinfoiling a weird meta play from Bur, but that wasn't a strong read. When I was questioning Bur about you, it was never about you, it was about a mindset/wording tell, but I'm not even sold on that, which is why when I saw your post to Fulcrum, I moved back to you.
I might do a stream of posts as I catch up and thoughts occur to me:
Quote from AG »
Are you voting me for liking Kit's #251 without voting you when you just said you liked Kit's #251 as well? What's the difference between you liking that post and me liking it?
I obviously don't agree with myself being a wolf. You might or might not, and your post would imply that you do, otherwise you would have made a point to Kit at the time that you agree with the town reads, but not the GJ read.
Or, you would have agreed with the whole thing, prodded me, or bare minimum, voted me. Instead, you came off as looking like you were trying to keep your options open. Like I said in the original post, the hedge was what bothered me, and the radio silence of your post.
@KJ: I may have slanked the last few days, but in comparrison, I have been one of the more active players in the game so I resent the lazy comment.
Quote from shadow »
Hey, now that all the requisite games are over, I wanted to kind of poke holes in your champs rule. Both of the games I've been scum (Bare Bones and Overwatch) and not followed champs rule at all. I feel like you should maybe scum hunt first, and use it as a support tool instead of leaning on it.
It's not a hard rule and even if it was, you don't normally push it day 1 (which is why despite my occasional whining, I don't believe I have voted Cythare. Another reason I am more hard into the lurkers as usual is because the more active players I am town reading (which is why I said earlier I was a bit wary I didn't have a deep wolf).
Me being a lazy bastard just quoted the post count. Of the first page, the only wolf read I really have here is Hunt (I was wolf reading Joe earlier, but I felt better and haven't checked back since). I probably just need to start isoing people and see if something sticks, but just for reference, why most of my wolf reads are towards the lower end of the posting pool.
Just in case you forgot, Hunt
Avacado's Sub
Hunt
AG
Are the only people I would advocate lynching. MOved Cythare off as his sub is at least doing something. So I don't know where you got that I was ok "lynching anyone."
Welcome Fulcrum! To save you some time your slot is as close to blank as it gets.
Town doesn't usually care what their replacee has said in the game. I for sure never read my former's posts unless someone else references them, votes them for it etc to see if it's a relevent vote.
Scum do read that stuff though. Religiously.
Welcome Fulcrum! To save you some time your slot is as close to blank as it gets.
I really dislike this post.
Grapefruit, what purpose does this serve?
To welcome him to the game. I didn't really think much beyond that.
I will note that you were quick to attack me after I called you scum by association without replying to the content of my Huntzilla wall at all. I mean I think scum shadow is better than that based on Overwatch and BrB, but I sure don't see why town shadow would ignore it.
@Rodemy To me two first RVS posts without a vote is significant. Do you have anything else or is that it? Cause I'm not really sure that sticking to my guns on Bur and making a statement I see as factual that you dispute as much of a case.
@grape
The only way I could see your welcome post being scummy is if we assume that scum do not have day chat and that you are trying to coach a buddy entering the thread. It's also sweet that you think I would try to pocket you. It's not really my thing, but see what you wanna. I like pressure my way day one. Not scared of a wagon forming. Cyan's got no case and he knows it which is why he's deflecting.
GJ just wants to kill whoever. Seriously, read his last couple pages. He's content with anyone dying basically. I'm trying to figure out if it's just lazy or malicious. Other than that, nobody with gravitas is as worried about me.
As for AG, I have no dog in that fight. Dude is null to me currentlyrics, oohing pinged me either way. Not going to be bullied into an opinion that isn't formed yet.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.
2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.
Vote Huntzilla.
Inb4 OMGUS
Hi. Explaining your thought process with more than just the word telling is really helpful for convincing people (including slowpokes who aren't caught up) /and/ helping people read you. It's a win-win.
@SJT I kind of agree that Shadow that feels all off on this push. Having seen scum!Shadow I don't think he this blatantly chainsaws to protect a buddy, but I'm not really sure what town!Shadow is doing here. Pushing me over that Fulcrum post is just a strange thing latch onto and I'm not able to follow why he thinks it is scummy.
What do you think of my case on Huntz? How convinced are you that Cyan is scum? You should vote Huntzilla with me.
The case is noteworthy, but to bring it full circle, like you said at the end of the case, I'm starting to feel like you're trying to pocket me. I'll need to go ISO him myself.
Cyan still feels wrong to me. He's jumped on each new wagon that's popped up. He jumped on the Hunt wagon and the AG wagon and it makes me feel uncomfortable voting for the same player as him.
After a Hunt ISO re-read, I could get behind that lynch. Not a whole lot of content or original thought (full circle! if you do a re-read of his ISO you'll get this joke). I like this lynch less than a Cyan lynch, and about the same as an AG lynch, but Cyan has voted for both of these guys, so I'd just rather lynch Cyan.
I like GJ's response to my question. God damn, where are the scum.
Someone point out anything scummy.
You saying this.
Idk, when people are all like "well gee wilikers, i'm town" it reads scum to me.
@hunts townread of me: i wrote that first post before i got my role pm. Sooo.. lets see.
Yes, it's accurate.(gee wilikers.. god damnit...) But the fact i could have posted that with scum role and him say "rodemy is town" kinda makes it lose some credibility.. so where is this insta townread coming from?
^^^ yes. This can be used a smoking gun in any mislynch of me in the foreseeable future. I post it with that knowledge.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Perhaps it is due to the pressure of knowing that I must somehow bear the burden of an entire world. Perhaps it is caused by the death I have seen, the friends I have lost. The friends I have been forced to kill.
Either way, I sometimes see shadows following me. Dark creatures that I don't understand, nor wish to understand. Are they, perhaps, some figment of my overtaxed mind
@SJT I kind of agree that Shadow that feels all off on this push. Having seen scum!Shadow I don't think he this blatantly chainsaws to protect a buddy, but I'm not really sure what town!Shadow is doing here. Pushing me over that Fulcrum post is just a strange thing latch onto and I'm not able to follow why he thinks it is scummy.
What do you think of my case on Huntz? How convinced are you that Cyan is scum? You should vote Huntzilla with me.
The case is noteworthy, but to bring it full circle, like you said at the end of the case, I'm starting to feel like you're trying to pocket me. I'll need to go ISO him myself.
Cyan still feels wrong to me. He's jumped on each new wagon that's popped up. He jumped on the Hunt wagon and the AG wagon and it makes me feel uncomfortable voting for the same player as him.
Pretty sure my first post of the game was expressing suspicion toward Hunt, and AG shortly thereafter. Before anyone else, IIRC. I even pointed out recently why it makes sense for them to be scum TOGETHER.
Hell, you literally just pointed out yet another scummy AG post.
@Killjoy you mean as town you wouldn't want to read the opinions of another confirmed town set of eyes? I love to reread townies who flip to see where their mind was at, as a replacement you get to do that without a flip. Seems like throwing away useful information not to reread as both alignments
Welcome Fulcrum! To save you some time your slot is as close to blank as it gets.
Town doesn't usually care what their replacee has said in the game. I for sure never read my former's posts unless someone else references them, votes them for it etc to see if it's a relevent vote.
Scum do read that stuff though. Religiously.
Welcome Fulcrum! To save you some time your slot is as close to blank as it gets.
I really dislike this post.
Grapefruit, what purpose does this serve?
To welcome him to the game. I didn't really think much beyond that.
I will note that you were quick to attack me after I called you scum by association without replying to the content of my Huntzilla wall at all. I mean I think scum shadow is better than that based on Overwatch and BrB, but I sure don't see why town shadow would ignore it.
@Rodemy To me two first RVS posts without a vote is significant. Do you have anything else or is that it? Cause I'm not really sure that sticking to my guns on Bur and making a statement I see as factual that you dispute as much of a case.
@grape
The only way I could see your welcome post being scummy is if we assume that scum do not have day chat and that you are trying to coach a buddy entering the thread. It's also sweet that you think I would try to pocket you. It's not really my thing, but see what you wanna. I like pressure my way day one. Not scared of a wagon forming. Cyan's got no case and he knows it which is why he's deflecting.
GJ just wants to kill whoever. Seriously, read his last couple pages. He's content with anyone dying basically. I'm trying to figure out if it's just lazy or malicious. Other than that, nobody with gravitas is as worried about me.
As for AG, I have no dog in that fight. Dude is null to me currentlyrics, oohing pinged me either way. Not going to be bullied into an opinion that isn't formed yet.
I like GJ's response to my question. God damn, where are the scum.
Someone point out anything scummy.
You saying this.
Idk, when people are all like "well gee wilikers, i'm town" it reads scum to me.
@hunts townread of me: i wrote that first post before i got my role pm. Sooo.. lets see.
Yes, it's accurate.(gee wilikers.. god damnit...) But the fact i could have posted that with scum role and him say "rodemy is town" kinda makes it lose some credibility.. so where is this insta townread coming from?
^^^ yes. This can be used a smoking gun in any mislynch of me in the foreseeable future. I post it with that knowledge.
Oh Rodemy, you are gonna crack and vote me like you always do. Go ahead, it's fine. I am not in any real danger of being mislynched yet.
Cyan’s continued responses to me fail to impress. 409 is bad when he says, “Hunt doesn't seem to think that Cantrip is town, despite this being the general opinion, but also doesn't want to tell us why.”
My gut reaction to this is thinking that Cyan is trying to peer pressure Hunt. I’m not clear if this really means that Hunt is scum because he doesn’t agree with the majority or because he isn’t explaining the read. Honestly, I dislike both of these reasons as a means to suspect someone, but considering how I’ve been on Cyan’s case for not explaining things I’m not much better in that regard. Yay hypocrisy. Then there’s this line, “Mostly it's just tone. The tone of his posts just feels bad to me.” Like okay, easy justification.
The rest of his post reads as condescending to SJTs case. Granted, this is a case against Cyan, so some lashback is to be expected, but this isn’t cooperation with a fellow townie, this is discrediting a townread’s ideas.
His read of Hunt is bleh as it’s based on disagreement with reads and I don’t see how that is scummy. Personally, I’d love to see reads that don’t perfectly align with my own, because that lowers the chances that town will get stuck in a game-long tunnel. Then he votes AG in a Hunt post.
421 Okay, he explained what he meant, but seriously how could Cyan know that’s what Hunt was doing? The word “refusal” suggests that Hunt is actively against calling Cantrip town, which is a misrepresentation.
@Grapefruit21, I’m coming around on Bur. After awhile of thinking about his contributions, none of them had enough game solving purpose. I can see scum asking softball questions like that early on to appear to scumhunt without actually helping town out. His recent reentry continues to be soft. Why wasn’t 416 posted earlier?
Hey Killjoy what makes you think that town can’t be bloodthirsty? Meaning, what makes Mind/SJT scummy for quickly jumping on me like that? Personally I find the jump to be pretty townie because of how bad it immediately looks. Scum would care a lot more about their image especially since they would know I’m town and that “scumslip” would be easily disproven. Also I avoided the Mind wagon earlier for similar reasons, why aren’t you heckling me about it?
We could just lynch him and make life easier for all of us.
That would be an awful waste of a D1 lynch. We need those sweet, sweet interactions later on and honestly I’m disliking this adovation for lynching below the mod line on D1.
I don't see how you got him implying there was scum pushing bur in RVS. Feels like you pulled that out of yer butt.
He says that Bur is likely town because he has three votes and is easy to push as mislynch fodder. The wording implies that’s the situation that GJ was thinking was happening.
"I'm Hunt and I already look like scum, quick lemme vote one of the most obviously town people around'.
Get out of here.
And there's no way AG should be 'null' to anyone. He has a considerable # of relevant posts. You should have SOME read on him. Either A)you are scum that doesn't want to push a wagon on a buddy that might not go anywhere or B)you are scum that is hoping the wagon will just go on without you.
Either way you're scum. Unvote, Vote hunt
Hey I’m null on AG, which one am I? Explain to me how GJ is obviously town, because I’m not seeing it.
Shadow’s push on Grape is weak. 495 really doesn’t help this.
I agree with Cyan in 496. Weird.
Getting to reading Huntz ISO and The Grape Wall of China soon.
The word “refusal” suggests that Hunt is actively against calling Cantrip town, which is a misrepresentation.
He LITERALLY says 'I am not willing to give Cantrip a town cookie just yet'. That is absolutely being actively against calling someone town.
And my case against Hunt is not based on 'disagreement with reads'. It's based on what I consider false bravado on his part when he responded to my first post to him, and his general demeanor.
But at this point, it's largely based on his complete lack of interaction with AG. Hunt has posted about everything in the game. He literally quoted a post where someone ELSE was attacking AG and responded to that post, but still couldn't manage to actually say anything about AG himself. As I explained, either A)Hunt didn't want to put more pressure on a scumbuddy when that person's wagon might not going anywhere or B)he is scum that feels like the wagon will advance on it's own and he didn't need to dirty his hands with it.
There is just no rational explanation for Town-Hunt saying nothing re: AG. It makes no sense. Hunt is extremely active and AG has been a popular topic of discussion for like a week now. Some kind of commentary should have occurred.
For christ sakes though, I have no real experience with AG, and his posts have not pinged me. Is that hard to understand?
Also, since I know you read it, but chose to ignore it because it has validity here. My post about your Bur comment is getting at the fact that your case, when used reflexively against you, should show you how absurd you sound.
I mean scum read me for days, Mr. No Brakes, that's all well and good. But come up with something actually convincing. You look scummy as **** trying to make up reasons.
Also, being null on a person is not the same as actively avoiding commenting on them. And I don't feel like you're as active as Hunt, so that is also relevant.
For christ sakes though, I have no real experience with AG, and his posts have not pinged me. Is that hard to understand?
Also, since I know you read it, but chose to ignore it because it has validity here. My post about your Bur comment is getting at the fact that your case, when used reflexively against you, should show you how absurd you sound.
I mean scum read me for days, Mr. No Brakes, that's all well and good. But come up with something actually convincing. You look scummy as **** trying to make up reasons.
It doesn't mean anything for you to comment on AG now that you've been called out for..not doing so.
And I specifically asked people why they think Bur is scum, stating flatly that I didn't understand it. Additionally, to my knowledge, no one even actually answered. How does that have anything to do with what I'm accusing you of? For that matter, how does it have anything to do with anything?
I mean scum read me for days, Mr. No Brakes, that's all well and good. But come up with something actually convincing. You look scummy as **** trying to make up reasons.
Uh-huh. So you think I'm scum, but want me to do a better job of casing you. Please explain this obvious cognative disassociation.
GJ just wants to kill whoever. Seriously, read his last couple pages. He's content with anyone dying basically. I'm trying to figure out if it's just lazy or malicious. Other than that, nobody with gravitas is as worried about me.
As for AG, I have no dog in that fight. Dude is null to me currentlyrics, oohing pinged me either way. Not going to be bullied into an opinion that isn't formed yet.
1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.
2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.
Vote Huntzilla.
Inb4 OMGUS
So "anyone" was an exaggeration on my part, but this
Like for instance, you are trying to question me to figure out on Rhand if I was trying to show a disconnected mindset. Even if I was a wolf, I wouldn't do that as disconnected barely touches my town range and is in a pretty wide range of my wolf game. If anything, I would be more vigilant about posts/questions I responded to. As far as pushing low posters, it's a NAI thing, and I say that as someone who as a wolf, thinks push 0/low posters is basically asking for trouble.
We are 72+ hours in and I am bored. I am waiting for the 5+ players below the mod line to start doing something or I am just going to start ham pushing. I hope there is a vig in this game and they just start shooting the bottom of the pyramid. I don't think the active voices right now are wolves so I like low player killing equity right now.
Bolding mine... Shows a willingness to speed up death. With an excuse of "I'm bored."
Upon my iso of you, you read much better than I had it all sounding in my mind. So kudos, you are officially moved up my list GJ.
Can you tell me why you and Cyan are moving your votes around in unison? Is he a lost puppy, or just coincidence because you guys are syncing up your menstruation or something?
Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?
I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.
I don't get this argument.
Getting town vibes from Rhand and shadow. Cyan is a hard null.
Yeah, gone for nearly four pages and then we get this gem. Some superficial throw aways and the most daring thing is Cyan at Null and Kitbits as a "sounds off.: Not a great reentry to the thread. Scum lean
@Cantrip: I agree that you read very differently from Avalon.
I commented on Cyan because something about his posting is striking to me, it's just that it's a borderline/null read rather than pointing towards a specific alignment.
I've read most of Mind's posts, but I haven't focused on just trying to follow his mindset yet and so while the case is good I'm not 100% behind the wagon until I do.
Called out on his cyan throw away comment. Fencesits. +Scum points again.
I really like #251, moves Kitbits to town in my eyes. Getting a lot more town reads than scum reads so far. Cantrip, Kitbits, Rhand, Shadow all sound town to me.
@Terry: Why do you think my vote is still on Bur?
I agree with him on the assessment here for Kitbits. I agree with his town reads (aside from Cantrip mind you). The question is a softball, and doesn't help him to garner an alignment tell from Terry. At least I can't think of a reason why that would help. With that brings this post to null conclusion for me. Part was scummy, some was solid.
I really like #251, moves Kitbits to town in my eyes. Getting a lot more town reads than scum reads so far. Cantrip, Kitbits, Rhand, Shadow all sound town to me.
@Terry: Why do you think my vote is still on Bur?
I have no idea, you tell me. Stop with the leading questions.
You seemed to think it's scummy. I assumed you would have an explanation for why it would be there as scum.
Well, he got a reaction out of SJT, but still don't see that it shed light on alignment. Lean scum.
Not a fan of Grapefruit wagon either. Don't think he has done anything that wolfy, and Shadow's point seems to only really apply if Bur is a wolf too (and it feels like a really weird distance/bus point if they are W/W).
Quote from AtheistGod »
I really like #251, moves Kitbits to town in my eyes. Getting a lot more town reads than scum reads so far. Cantrip, Kitbits, Rhand, Shadow all sound town to me.
@Terry: Why do you think my vote is still on Bur?
More hedge, and no voting despite the fact a large chunk of Kit's post was a vote and reason for voting me. Vote AtheistGod.
Top of Brain list
VV
GJ
Kitbits
V
Cyan
Shadow
Rhand
Cantripmancer
Grapefruit
Mind
Null Line
W
AtheistGod
Cythare
Huntzilla
Are you voting me for liking Kit's #251 without voting you when you just said you liked Kit's #251 as well? What's the difference between you liking that post and me liking it?
Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?
I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.
I don't get this argument.
Getting town vibes from Rhand and shadow. Cyan is a hard null.
I really like #251, moves Kitbits to town in my eyes. Getting a lot more town reads than scum reads so far. Cantrip, Kitbits, Rhand, Shadow all sound town to me.
@Terry: Why do you think my vote is still on Bur?
Clarifying again... I'm gonna award scum points though for ignoring interactions that are meaningful so many times in a row.
After reading through Mindreaver, I'm not convinced he's scum. This feels to be genuine frustration. I didn't like that Shadow pushed him around so easily regarding his unvote of Gruffin. Not so much anything that Shadow did wrong more so the fact that Mindreaver, was just like, "Ok I'll unvote, if you leave me alone."
Anyways, to clarify... I feel like overall he reads frustrated town to me, but there were still a couple of marks on his record. I also feel the same way he does about my vote on Gruffin. I wanted to bring attention to something I saw and the best way to do that and have it taken seriously is with a vote. Gruffin is in no danger of being lynched today and my vote on him doesn't really matter until we get closer to the deadline and I need to put my signature on a lynch candidate going into the night.
Cantrip's posting has me feeling town on him. It's a different tone than it was in our Avalon game.
I'm going to keep popping in and out checking up on different players today, but I hate post walls and prefer to do snippets at a time.
So you agreed with THIS Terry read of Cantrip? For this reason? Because CANTRIP thought that read was garbage, and eventually Terry even backed away before your post.
And it's NOT clear that you were townreading Cantrip because he made a good argument for my lynch, but because his tone was different than Avalon?
Enough, Unvote, Vote AtheistGod.
@Cyan, you're not off the hook either. But I only have one vote.
I am townreading him for both reasons.
So you have me as scum for obviously townreading Cantrip, but not stating it clearly enough for you? Could you explain why that would indicate a scum mindset?
Also, what are you trying to get at with "Because CANTRIP thought that read was garbage"? Do you believe it's a garbage reason? If so, why is it a garbage reason? I can't find anything other than exasperation as an explanation for your vote on me.
Ok, now he's been entirely too focused on votes on him. Scum points....
After reading through Mindreaver, I'm not convinced he's scum. This feels to be genuine frustration. I didn't like that Shadow pushed him around so easily regarding his unvote of Gruffin. Not so much anything that Shadow did wrong more so the fact that Mindreaver, was just like, "Ok I'll unvote, if you leave me alone."
Anyways, to clarify... I feel like overall he reads frustrated town to me, but there were still a couple of marks on his record. I also feel the same way he does about my vote on Gruffin. I wanted to bring attention to something I saw and the best way to do that and have it taken seriously is with a vote. Gruffin is in no danger of being lynched today and my vote on him doesn't really matter until we get closer to the deadline and I need to put my signature on a lynch candidate going into the night.
Cantrip's posting has me feeling town on him. It's a different tone than it was in our Avalon game.
I'm going to keep popping in and out checking up on different players today, but I hate post walls and prefer to do snippets at a time.
So you agreed with THIS Terry read of Cantrip? For this reason? Because CANTRIP thought that read was garbage, and eventually Terry even backed away before your post.
And it's NOT clear that you were townreading Cantrip because he made a good argument for my lynch, but because his tone was different than Avalon?
Enough, Unvote, Vote AtheistGod.
@Cyan, you're not off the hook either. But I only have one vote.
I am townreading him for both reasons.
So you have me as scum for obviously townreading Cantrip, but not stating it clearly enough for you? Could you explain why that would indicate a scum mindset?
I'm saying this: you displayed at least two, possibly three if people are feeling generous to read your "I agree with Terry" as "I'm townreading Cantrip because of the case he made on Mind", very sloppy pieces of information in that post.
#1 You like the case against me. But haven't read all my posts. That can come from a scum mindset right? That's definitely in the "gonna pile on without adding anything new, and I'll leave the wagon just as quickly". Combine this with not actually placing a vote. You agree with the case, but aren't going to put a vote there.
Why is it "can be from scum"? You are already voting me, shouldn't your arguments be based on "more likely scum than not" rather than "isn't 100% townie"? It sounds like you are arguing against town-clearing me, not arguing that I'm scum. You can look at my previous games if you want, I don't tend to throw my vote around that much day 1. You being my top scum suspect doesn't mean I'm ready to end the day (which I saw as likely given you already sitting at L-2).
#2 You agree with Terry, but at that point, not even Terry agreed with Terry. Series of events: Terry says Cantrip has a different tone than avalon, and is therefore town. Cantrip says "don't toneread me like that, I'm amazing". Terry says "Okay, good point, I won't trust that". You say "I agree with Terry". You don't exactly spell out what you agree with. It's a HUGE stretch to say you meant "I think Cantrip is town due to interactions with Mind, the case, and his different tone from Avalon".
It's what I meant. Why is that such a huge stretch? Cantrip sounds very different in this game than he has in the previous games I've played with him (which I believe are 2 scum-Cantrip games and 1 town-Cantrip game (where I got lynched 48 hours into day 1, which reminds me that "your explanation on the meaning behind your posts is a stretch" was the primary force behind that wagon Game Thread)).
#3 If you in fact meant that you liked the case against me, proposed by Cantrip. AND you also liked his tone. Why isn't he in the list at the bottom? Shadow makes the cut. Rhand too. Explain why you don't specifically mention Cantrip here. The only reason not to include him, at that point, would have been if you thought his argument was bad. Right? Which you stated that you liked the argument. His absence in that list, is indicative of somebody who doesn't have to think about relationships between Cantrip and Mindreaver. Who knows they are both town, and just needs to side with one over the other, and isn't thinking about what the guilt of one of the two means. ie, a scum mindset.
I had already mentioned Cantrip. I'm not going to say "Cantrip is town. Also, Cantrip is town." I was listing reads that I hadn't already touched on.
beyond that, you dodged (thank you Gruff) my questions. Explain why you liked the case against me. What about it. No that you've read more from me (you have right?) Where do you stand? Meaning you're more concerned with picking apart my argument than convincing me you're just lazy!town. Hence my exasperation.
First off, Mindreaver, I don't buy that your "I hate agreeing with GJ" was a throw away line. It feels like fabricated emotion. Similarly with the "I hate Shadow's interactions with Bur." I feel like if you were town and felt like Shadow was acting scummy, then saw him interacting with Bur in a way you found coaching, you'd be excited/happy to be making connections between players that lead to solving the game. Instead, you're using "hate" language; again, it feels like fabricated emotion, and misplaced at that.
You don't seem to be interested in finding scum. The same pattern is showing up in your case against me. You seem more worried about "makes sense to vote" than "is scum".
This defense reads better. It at least doesn't sound like whining or CFTWR
For christ sakes though, I have no real experience with AG, and his posts have not pinged me. Is that hard to understand?
Also, since I know you read it, but chose to ignore it because it has validity here. My post about your Bur comment is getting at the fact that your case, when used reflexively against you, should show you how absurd you sound.
I mean scum read me for days, Mr. No Brakes, that's all well and good. But come up with something actually convincing. You look scummy as **** trying to make up reasons.
It doesn't mean anything for you to comment on AG now that you've been called out for..not doing so.
And I specifically asked people why they think Bur is scum, stating flatly that I didn't understand it. Additionally, to my knowledge, no one even actually answered. How does that have anything to do with what I'm accusing you of? For that matter, how does it have anything to do with anything?
I mean scum read me for days, Mr. No Brakes, that's all well and good. But come up with something actually convincing. You look scummy as **** trying to make up reasons.
Uh-huh. So you think I'm scum, but want me to do a better job of casing you. Please explain this obvious cognative disassociation.
There is no cognitive dissonance in taunting you? Get off your high horse for a second. Also, the point was in the argument I summed up and posted, bot the circumstances. Though while we're talking about it, you understand what you posted looks rhetorical, right? Probably why you didn't get any answers.
None of this is convincing me Hunt isn't scum. Feels more like we caught the team and he's being forced to bus his buddy to survive.
@Cyan I think I explained my Bur case multiple times. May never have directed it at you though.
@Shadow All of your answers make sense just want a follow up on town reads. You have Gruffin and Mind (pending tonight) as your top town reads. Mindreaver obviously isn't a behavioural one given your vote has been on him for large swaths of today. So by behaviour who are your top 3? Gruffin and who else? Skimming your Iso didn't paint a picture of someone with too many town reads. I saw resisting town reads on Kit and giving a vague you'd move a few people around from KJ's list but you overall like it. I know your scum reads are shot to hell right now, but a top 3 behavioural town reads would help me figure out where you're coming from.
@Grapefruit21
Finished reading your Hunt post and Hunt’s ISO, here’s what I got on ‘em.
Huntz entry was pretty odd with that double vote, enough to turn a few heads. Worth noting, though not much on it’s own.Fast forward to his scum points on Logic. The broken quotes in that post confused me for longer than I care to admit. I don’t agree with the logic, but I can follow. What I don’t get is the resistance towards voting someone who displayed scummy behavior in his mind.
Next post is jumping onto the Mind train. I didn’t like this vote or it’s reasons, but it was better than a blank sheep like a couple of the others were.
Interested in what pinged him about GJs posts as he never followed up on that.
As for your case, I partially agree with your points.
Don’t agree on the point about Logic/Mind voting because while the Mind vote was pretty sheep-y, it had more to it than his scum points on Logic. Also don’t agree that 269 was strictly an attack/defence deal like you say. The question is a fair one, and one that I could see myself asking if I had gotten to that post first.
Agree that the interactions with Shadow are pretty forced sounding and definitely agree on some of the inconsistencies that you point out in his T/S list (Shadow as top town/Rhand read/Logic read)
Cantrip not being in the pool I can see, because Huntz posts read more like he didn’t want to townread Cantrip yet, but he’s close. Not sure I’m seeing the pocketing attempt, but it’s something I can easily see popping into your mind when someone shady starts agreeing with you. Town points for Grape.
This case is really well-developed and something that I have a hard time seeing coming from scum!Grape.
The word “refusal” suggests that Hunt is actively against calling Cantrip town, which is a misrepresentation.
He LITERALLY says 'I am not willing to give Cantrip a town cookie just yet'. That is absolutely being actively against calling someone town.
And my case against Hunt is not based on 'disagreement with reads'. It's based on what I consider false bravado on his part when he responded to my first post to him, and his general demeanor.
But at this point, it's largely based on his complete lack of interaction with AG. Hunt has posted about everything in the game. He literally quoted a post where someone ELSE was attacking AG and responded to that post, but still couldn't manage to actually say anything about AG himself. As I explained, either A)Hunt didn't want to put more pressure on a scumbuddy when that person's wagon might not going anywhere or B)he is scum that feels like the wagon will advance on it's own and he didn't need to dirty his hands with it.
There is just no rational explanation for Town-Hunt saying nothing re: AG. It makes no sense. Hunt is extremely active and AG has been a popular topic of discussion for like a week now. Some kind of commentary should have occurred.
Also, his vote on me is comical.
I read that line as "I'm close, but not yet" but after seeing him say "I agree with his town reads (aside from Cantrip mind you)" in 526, I'm inclined to agree that he's against it now. Perhaps I'm the real misrepresenter here.
Hmm, thanks for clarifying. I can agree his demeanor isn't fitting with what he says. My main question after rereading his ISO is why would town say they want pressure their way? I can think of reasons why scum would want to say that (to look fearless, and thus not like a survivalistic scumlord) but I can’t wrap my head around why a townie would talk like that. Couple this with his attitude towards players who are actually pressuring him, and we’ve got an inconsistency on our hands.
Count me in on this wagon. Unvote, Vote: Huntzilla
Have you looked through Grape's wall yet? What do you think about his points?
Ok, I reread the whole game thoroughly. This is my current view of the game:
Town
Rhand
Gruffin (nothing that changed my opinion)
Cantripmancer (wide focus, follows up on most of his questioning lines, similar game view as me)
Lean town
Shadow (I really like how he tried to get people to commit to a Mind read when the wagon was getting big. I don’t like his pocketing though)
Mind (rereading him put my mind at ease. He did a great job defending himself vs Cantrip while still hunting. I probably overreacted on his T/S waffling. + He claimed Vin)
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
Cyan (Took him a long time to start posting content, but now that he is, I like it)
Hunt (Reads similar to our last game, where I correctly read him as town. There’s more, but I don’t want to go into that yet. I do hope “For Cyan, my love” isn’t a roleclaim lol)
Null
GJ (I still have no clue. Will hopefully become clear on later Days. Flips will help, he’s given a lot of opinions)
TRSJT (His posting has improved. I like the pressure on Cyan, it made Cyan post better. I don’t understand why he’s still voting Cyan tho)
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare (The only thing Fulcrum did on entry is saying he likes my 2 main scumspects)
Quixotic/Logic (Logic never unvoted his RVS vote and quixotic’s Mindreaver vote is opportunistic)
Killjoy/Apocado (Apocado’s Mindreaver vote was the worst of the lot. KJ is voting my main scumspect, but isn’t really trying to get him lynched)
Scum
Bur (Doesn’t follow up on all his questions, IIRC lurking is his scum!meta)
AG (only calls people town and responds to stuff directed at him. Not inquisitive)
Grapefruit (Deserves a post of his own. I’ll get to that)
-----
@Shadow:
Do you have examples of you pocketing as town?
Do you believe OMGUS is a scumtell?
What is your current read on Terry? And Grapefruit?
@Terry:
Do you still think Cyan is scum after his last response to you?
@Gruffin:
How well do you know Grape? How sure are you that his Hunt case isn’t scum motivated?
@AG:
T/S with reasonings please?
@Anyone:
Does Bur lurk as town too? I seem to remember it’s his scum meta, but I’m not 100% sure.
@Rhand Bur lurks as town as well, but generally crumples really badly when he gets pushed. I've seen it happen in disinheritance here and in an offsite game. It's why I was tunneling him and trying to get him lynched earlier is I wanted to see his response. As town he posts under pressure but is resigned to his fate and known to self vote. I wanted to force his hand and see if I could get him to play to meta without revealing my intentions. If he got resigned to getting lynched I'd reveal this part of my meta read and try and stop the wagon. As scum I haven't seen him pushed hard because he has replaced out after early activity followed by lurking as scum in the games I have seen.
Anyways can't wait to see how you're incorrectly reading me as scum this time.
Ok, I reread the whole game thoroughly. This is my current view of the game:
Town
Rhand
Gruffin (nothing that changed my opinion)
Cantripmancer (wide focus, follows up on most of his questioning lines, similar game view as me)
Lean town
Shadow (I really like how he tried to get people to commit to a Mind read when the wagon was getting big. I don’t like his pocketing though)
Mind (rereading him put my mind at ease. He did a great job defending himself vs Cantrip while still hunting. I probably overreacted on his T/S waffling. + He claimed Vin)
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
Cyan (Took him a long time to start posting content, but now that he is, I like it)
Hunt (Reads similar to our last game, where I correctly read him as town. There’s more, but I don’t want to go into that yet. I do hope “For Cyan, my love” isn’t a roleclaim lol)
Null
GJ (I still have no clue. Will hopefully become clear on later Days. Flips will help, he’s given a lot of opinions)
TRSJT (His posting has improved. I like the pressure on Cyan, it made Cyan post better. I don’t understand why he’s still voting Cyan tho)
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare (The only thing Fulcrum did on entry is saying he likes my 2 main scumspects)
Quixotic/Logic (Logic never unvoted his RVS vote and quixotic’s Mindreaver vote is opportunistic)
Killjoy/Apocado (Apocado’s Mindreaver vote was the worst of the lot. KJ is voting my main scumspect, but isn’t really trying to get him lynched)
Scum
Bur (Doesn’t follow up on all his questions, IIRC lurking is his scum!meta)
AG (only calls people town and responds to stuff directed at him. Not inquisitive)
Grapefruit (Deserves a post of his own. I’ll get to that)
-----
@Shadow:
Do you have examples of you pocketing as town?
Do you believe OMGUS is a scumtell?
What is your current read on Terry? And Grapefruit?
@Terry:
Do you still think Cyan is scum after his last response to you?
@Gruffin:
How well do you know Grape? How sure are you that his Hunt case isn’t scum motivated?
@AG:
T/S with reasonings please?
@Anyone:
Does Bur lurk as town too? I seem to remember it’s his scum meta, but I’m not 100% sure.
no role claimed on the love joke. I am not a lover
@Grapefruit21
Finished reading your Hunt post and Hunt’s ISO, here’s what I got on ‘em.
Huntz entry was pretty odd with that double vote, enough to turn a few heads. Worth noting, though not much on it’s own.Fast forward to his scum points on Logic. The broken quotes in that post confused me for longer than I care to admit. I don’t agree with the logic, but I can follow. What I don’t get is the resistance towards voting someone who displayed scummy behavior in his mind.
Next post is jumping onto the Mind train. I didn’t like this vote or it’s reasons, but it was better than a blank sheep like a couple of the others were.
Interested in what pinged him about GJs posts as he never followed up on that.
As for your case, I partially agree with your points.
Don’t agree on the point about Logic/Mind voting because while the Mind vote was pretty sheep-y, it had more to it than his scum points on Logic. Also don’t agree that 269 was strictly an attack/defence deal like you say. The question is a fair one, and one that I could see myself asking if I had gotten to that post first.
Agree that the interactions with Shadow are pretty forced sounding and definitely agree on some of the inconsistencies that you point out in his T/S list (Shadow as top town/Rhand read/Logic read)
Cantrip not being in the pool I can see, because Huntz posts read more like he didn’t want to townread Cantrip yet, but he’s close. Not sure I’m seeing the pocketing attempt, but it’s something I can easily see popping into your mind when someone shady starts agreeing with you. Town points for Grape.
This case is really well-developed and something that I have a hard time seeing coming from scum!Grape.
The word “refusal” suggests that Hunt is actively against calling Cantrip town, which is a misrepresentation.
He LITERALLY says 'I am not willing to give Cantrip a town cookie just yet'. That is absolutely being actively against calling someone town.
And my case against Hunt is not based on 'disagreement with reads'. It's based on what I consider false bravado on his part when he responded to my first post to him, and his general demeanor.
But at this point, it's largely based on his complete lack of interaction with AG. Hunt has posted about everything in the game. He literally quoted a post where someone ELSE was attacking AG and responded to that post, but still couldn't manage to actually say anything about AG himself. As I explained, either A)Hunt didn't want to put more pressure on a scumbuddy when that person's wagon might not going anywhere or B)he is scum that feels like the wagon will advance on it's own and he didn't need to dirty his hands with it.
There is just no rational explanation for Town-Hunt saying nothing re: AG. It makes no sense. Hunt is extremely active and AG has been a popular topic of discussion for like a week now. Some kind of commentary should have occurred.
Also, his vote on me is comical.
I read that line as "I'm close, but not yet" but after seeing him say "I agree with his town reads (aside from Cantrip mind you)" in 526, I'm inclined to agree that he's against it now. Perhaps I'm the real misrepresenter here.
Hmm, thanks for clarifying. I can agree his demeanor isn't fitting with what he says. My main question after rereading his ISO is why would town say they want pressure their way? I can think of reasons why scum would want to say that (to look fearless, and thus not like a survivalistic scumlord) but I can’t wrap my head around why a townie would talk like that. Couple this with his attitude towards players who are actually pressuring him, and we’ve got an inconsistency on our hands.
Count me in on this wagon. Unvote, Vote: Huntzilla
Have you looked through Grape's wall yet? What do you think about his points?
I enjoy pressure day one because a)gives me purpose and direction b) forces me to participate in dialogue, otherwise I limp through posting infrequently letting others do the work c) it's how I catch scum. I draw hate from both alignments, but looking at *****ty jumps on my wagon is how I can catch scum day one. It's been very reliable.
Plus, I love the bravado/joking posts. Nothing pisses people off like taunting. Once people get tilted, it becomes easier to read intentions
Our early banter was awful and I don't like his response to Gruffin in 81. I also think town!Bur would have reacted to having 3 votes even if they're RVS votes. I don't like completely ignoring it.
Colder take Rhand is town despite the over-explaining in 34.
No one reacts to having 3 RVS votes.
And the “banter” he’s talking about is all RVS as well. Simply calling it “awful” does nothing. It won’t convince anyone Bur is scum and it won’t get a reaction out of Bur.
With Bur the tone just feels different to the signup thread. Bur has been busting my chops for a while because I can't read him at all, but this is a bit different. It feels more forced I guess I'd say. Also I've seen Bur jovial in pre and post game, haven't seen the joking tone in a game proper yet. But that is a limited meta read so take it with a grain of salt if you have more experience with Bur.
As for he 81 it's more that I don't see anything alignment indicative in Gruffin's 62 or 65. Gruffin is competent enough as scum to ask those base level questions. It feels very much like an unearned town read (that appears earned if you don't double check). I just can't see how you can town read someone for the two posts Bur pointed to.
He has a meta read of Bur that he doesn’t really believe in.
So all he has is the townclear of Gruffin. Townclearing people is something many were doing.
As for the second part Bur is much more invested in playing the game as scum in my experience. I have seen town!Bur fold under light pressure while scum!Bur plays a much stronger game. Even with it being not a real thing I'd expect Bur to reply to it as town because of that meta quirk.
@Rhand Bur lurks as town as well, but generally crumples really badly when he gets pushed. I've seen it happen in disinheritance here and in an offsite game. It's why I was tunneling him and trying to get him lynched earlier is I wanted to see his response. As town he posts under pressure but is resigned to his fate and known to self vote. I wanted to force his hand and see if I could get him to play to meta without revealing my intentions. If he got resigned to getting lynched I'd reveal this part of my meta read and try and stop the wagon. As scum I haven't seen him pushed hard because he has replaced out after early activity followed by lurking as scum in the games I have seen.
Anyways can't wait to see how you're incorrectly reading me as scum this time.
Bolded mine again. Grape was voting Bur based off meta he’s never experienced apparently.
He was going to push him to show his town!meta, but he has no scum!meta to compare that with.
Bad excuses for that early push.
His next posts are about Bur (but not with Bur), until he makes a waffling post about GJ to show us all he has no read on him with a lot of words:
So mini wall time, GJ is fascinating to me this game and I'm surprised he's garnered as little discussion as he has. I think he has some of the towniest posts (this side of Cantrip), but also some of the scummiest. So here is a cross section of some of the standouts to me taken out of order.
Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.
I don't really had a rationale. Bur was on tone + votes. Tone was the main thing because tone is all that has really happened so far. The fact that rvs votes aren't unvoting, and no one else is adding ontop of it goes to my point about Bur being seen as toxic to push from the mafia team.
I love this post, I was pushing on Johnny for what I though was a contradiction in his and he doubles down on it. I'll get back to this later.
@GentlemenJohnny It isn't that I have lackluster posts, Its just in my personality to be more calm while I question others. My play usually picks up when I come up with a read. By the way, why do you dislike my last 2 posts?
I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.
Your opening made a psuedo bad impression with me, for making a post, and not reading all of the ~100 posts at the time. With at least half being RVS ***** votes, it would not have taken that much time to get over it. I feel like your tone is playing cautious right now, which while isn't inherently wolfy, does not feel appropriate. It feels like you are trying to post safely under the radar.
Why do you think Mindreaver posts feel forced and insincere?
I like this one too, but not as much. The mind wagon was going to come under pressure for forming so quickly and I like his pre-emptive pressure onto the most suspect vote on it. That said it could be a deflection as GJ is in the second worst seat on the wagon...
Not a huge fan of Mindreaver right now. Shadow gets a little more equity. Cyan still Nai, Cantrip also gets some town equity.
This post on the other had is just bleh... His votes on mind so that's not much of a revelation. Giving Shadow and Cantrip town+ for the recent posts isn't exactly a scorching take. I don't think Cyan has posted anything except a town+ for Cantrip so announcing you don't have a read on him isn't the most helpful take in the world.
Kidbit, by the way is reading super pure so far. I think I am making this call too early, but hell, Ill go with it until I find a reason not to.
So making this post after the more noticed hot take post is incredibly towny. As scum it would take away any credit he'd get for making the read that early and does nothing to remove the suspicion he'd face for making such bold early reads.
Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?
I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.
This is a post I hate. And it's the one that lead me to pressure him and got the response I liked in 157. So he's said Bur is town for his engaged/jokey tone and having 3 votes on him. Then says that he thinks all 3 on the wagon are town when asked about the obvious implication of there being scum on the wagon.
That's quite the awkward twist of logic. And I know that I said I liked him doubling down on it earlier. I like the doubling down because I can't imagine scum would possibly ever do that. What a horrible hill to pick to die on. Bur having an all town wagon tells us nothing about his alignment, because town would know nothing about his alignment. So you can either look to clear Bur by saying scum wouldn't push him for a mislynch because they know his meta and that they'll look bad for it or clear his wagon by assuming they all know Bur's meta. You can't really have it both ways... If Bur's wagon is town, they would have no idea what his alignment is outside of cases stated and made.
And then that get's us into another kettle of fish: GJ is sitting here making subtle meta based arguments to clear Bur and his wagon based on everyone having knowledge of that meta. There is a very large problem with this given that roughly a third of the game is completely new to this site and would have no clue about any of the subtle meta that GJ is using to try and clear people here...
So long story short I have no clue what to make of GJ. A couple of his posts are the scummiest things I've seen here, but there are enough posts that strike me in such a town way that I'm more inclined to think he's town on the reasoning that I don't think scum GJ is doubling down on that horrible Bur/wagon meta argument. I think that stems from a town mindset of posting from the hip as thoughts come to you. I'd appreciate another set of eyes checking my work and making sure I'm not writing off scum as too scummy to be scum, but I think it just makes a lot more sense as town not obsessing over the smaller details.
Why bother using so many words to describe a nullread?
His next post is one I can’t shrug off. He says I’m setting up low hanging fruit, but apparently doesn’t think I’m scum.
I also don’t get why he’s defending Apocado like this:
@Rhand What about Terry's day chat focus is scummy?
And what makes Apocado in particular Mind vote bad? There hasn't been much of a case beyond Catrips initial post and people saying his defensiveness with Shadow looks bad. So why does Apocado in particular and not Hunt, Cyan, or GJ look bad for it? You pretty much sheeped the existing argument too.
I'm seeing a bit of mud being thrown at people who haven't posted much. They need to get in here and post but for the time being that reeked of setting up some low hanging fruit.
His next posts are all fine. He asks questions. Of note: he thinks AG is town.
Anyway onto my Bur case since almost everyone else has forgotten his existence his entry was joke oriented and to me didn't feel like town Bur. Others interpreted this as genuine town excitement for the game, which at the time was a fair interpretation. He then proceeded to fall off the face of the earth. Life is busy etc. etc. but I think town Bur would make more of an effort after showing that level of interest in the game. Scum Bur on the other hand I've seen replace out after early activity. On top of the activity and tonal read Bur also wasn't particularly town in page 2. Post 68 stands out to me as a particularly useless post that is trying it's hardest to seem engaged and solving the game.
So what is the difference exactly? Town!Bur lurks and scum!Bur is active and then replaces out?
Because in that case… this is town!Bur and you should not be pushing him anymore at that point.
@Cyan I'm going to ISO Hunt as I'd prefer not to lynch someone below the modline today and AG is pretty much there. Is there any particular reason you would rather hunt AG than Huntzilla?
You know who’s below the modline? Bur.
And then the Huntz case comes, in which Hunt is scum because of a connection to Shadow / AG and because you think he pockets you because he /barns your Bur read.
That case is very weak.
I dislike your TLDR:
So TLDR: Huntz is inconsistent throughout and has some scummy moments. His reads lists don't track with my view of the game at all and don't seem to track with his in some cases. I think there is a semi obvious case that he was attempting to pocket me. And I think his interactions with Shadow and AG make them a plausible scum team. His underwhelming defence of AG to Terry is one of the harder to justify as town posts in the entire game. If one were to flip scum I would feel very strongly about pushing the other. Shadow less so, but he would be the next place I'd start looking.
And of his top 7 picks for scum, two directly scum read him directly, one he attacked over a scum read, and one his vote hasn't budged from all game.
The inconsistency is your only valid point.
The pocketing is nonsense. If you don’t want people to believe in your Bur case, then why bother posting it?
A possible connection with Shadow and AG does NOT make Hunt scum.
The defence of AG to Terry is exactly what you did to me about Apocado.
I don’t get why anyone is sheeping this case.
TL;DR:
Grapefruit pushes Bur based on meta he doesn’t know and holds on to that read until he makes his Hunt case, which is not a good case. His only good point is inconsistency. Everything else is calling Hunt scum by proxy (because of AG / Shadow) and accusing him of something he did himself (Hunt’s defense of AG is very much the same as Grape’s defense of Apocado earlier).
He also has a tendency to post stuff that helps no one (a null-case about GJ; telling me I’m picking LHF while apparently he doesn’t think that’s a scumtell)
@Rhand I think my post in reply to your initial post better explains what I was doing with Bur. The key was the way he collapses under pressure as town. I wanted to see if I could force that reaction.
Wrt to my GJ post I actually came out of it with a town read. A bit waffly, but a town read that has endured in the interim. And that's in the wall, I say it seems like it comes from town but ask for others (implying those familiar with GJ) to double check my read.
Last thing Hunt butting in on RSJTs post wasn't a pure defense it also discredits SJT without engaging with the rest of the post. I would argue my apocado defense wasn't only defending him but drawing comparisons to others with similar behavior.
Ehh actually I see what you are saying with the hunt/AG to me/apo thing.
It's a bit different in scope, but the point of both is to get the quoted to expand their read by challenging the premise. I just think mine isn't scummy in context, while Huntz has no context.
@Rhand I think my post in reply to your initial post better explains what I was doing with Bur. The key was the way he collapses under pressure as town. I wanted to see if I could force that reaction.
Wrt to my GJ post I actually came out of it with a town read. A bit waffly, but a town read that has endured in the interim. And that's in the wall, I say it seems like it comes from town but ask for others (implying those familiar with GJ) to double check my read.
Last thing Hunt butting in on RSJTs post wasn't a pure defense it also discredits SJT without engaging with the rest of the post. I would argue my apocado defense wasn't only defending him but drawing comparisons to others with similar behavior.
But you say you have no scum meta to compare Bur with? And you kept voting him until the recent Hunt case while saying multiple times you don't like the votes below the modline.
You come out with a very waffly GJ read. You start the whole summary by saying you don't know.
You're ignoring a big part of my case too.
Why does /barning you on your Bur case equal pocketing? And why does that make Hunt scum?
And why feel the need to call me out on pursuing lhf and compare that to gj while you don't think that makes either of us scum?
And why make a whole wall about GJ to explain a lean town read?
Re Bur: I do have scum meta. He white knighted someone who would have been an easy mislynch D1 and then replaced out. During that game he appeared more engaged and had his finger on the pulse of the game which he decidedly didn't as town in his two most recent town games I've seen.
As for my inconsistent push I can't come out and say I'm tunneling him to see if he crumbles like he did in Disinheritance and Harhui mafias. Kind of defeats the purpose. So yeah my meta read moved around slightly but consistently with the idea he lurks hard core as town and doesn't have a good feel for the game and plays differently and with better self defense as scum.
On GJ I was drawing attention to my lean in detail because I thought there was enough there to read him. With my limited knowledge of GJ I only felt comfortable giving him a lean for the loose shooting from the hip vibes I got from him. Someone more familiar might have been able to do something stronger with that info.
Hunt barning my Bur case alone doesn't make him scum. It doesn't make it him trying to pocket me. That was the most tenuous part of my read, but it came from that catch up/reread post being focused heavily on that read. It felt like a pocket attempt so I called it that. It might not have been that doesn't make his progression super towny either. I felt much more strongly about the inconsistencies in his top 3 list but wanted to include everything.
As for the lhf thing I felt it was scummy, but not scummy enough to outweigh the rest of your posts. Or GJs (which is why it was waffly he'd been scummy and towny just more towny) but worth mentioning. If you're scum it's good to have it to refer back to later and if you're town it might snap you out of a trap of settling for an easy lynch rather than a good lynch. Seen too many of those.
Okay. So tell me, is it worth having someone crumble under pressure to find out he's town? That sounds like a scum tactic to get one player that actually knows you to stop being engaged by abusing his meta.
Hmm... I was actually under the impression that you were voting scum!Bur and kept your vote on him during the growth of town!Mind's wagon to look good later on, but now my conclusion is shifting to Bur being town if you're scum, and you voting him for malicious reasons.
@Bur: weigh in here please. Do you think town!Grape would do that to you?
@Anyone: I would like someone else than Grape to weigh in on Bur's meta.
(In my ohone and i ****ed up the quote but here it goes) @Rhand
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
Explain that last bit.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
I enjoy pressure day one because a)gives me purpose and direction b) forces me to participate in dialogue, otherwise I limp through posting infrequently letting others do the work c) it's how I catch scum. I draw hate from both alignments, but looking at *****ty jumps on my wagon is how I can catch scum day one. It's been very reliable.
Yeah right. The last time I saw you get wagoned Day 1(and I'm pretty sure you were town there), at no point did you 'enjoy the pressure'. You literally used 'I always get lynched day one' as a point to stop people from wagoning you.
Okay. So tell me, is it worth having someone crumble under pressure to find out he's town? That sounds like a scum tactic to get one player that actually knows you to stop being engaged by abusing his meta.
Hmm... I was actually under the impression that you were voting scum!Bur and kept your vote on him during the growth of town!Mind's wagon to look good later on, but now my conclusion is shifting to Bur being town if you're scum, and you voting him for malicious reasons.
@Bur: weigh in here please. Do you think town!Grape would do that to you?
@Anyone: I would like someone else than Grape to weigh in on Bur's meta.
You mean that "trying to get me to implode" thing? To be frank, I have no idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have no idea about grape's meta (I've only seen him being town and even then I was scum reading him for the whole time I was alive.) (I've played with him twice, once as a town and once as a scum, when I didn't pay attention to his meta since I knew he wasn't mafia)
More questions, Rhand? (Besides my reads, since my "do not lynch" -pile only contains Mindreaver atm and I don't have any good reads on anyone else.)
@grapefruit: Me imploding doesn't necessarily mean I'm town. I'm perfectly aware (and I kinda wished that no one would become aware of it) that I tend to crumble under the pressure as town. I was prepared to fake that in FT Mafia had there been a situation where I would've been under heat. And I wish you wouldn't consider that as a part of town!Bur meta and would never bring that up again.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Rhand last reply for a while to let others chime in, but yeah I think clearing a slot completely is worth it. OoG I'm sure it was miserable for Bur (@bur still be my friend) but in game once the lynch was no longer imminent I had hoped he would return to form once my plan was revealed and the wagon was halted. And we would be left with a very near confirmed town in the game which is always valuable.
@Rhand last reply for a while to let others chime in, but yeah I think clearing a slot completely is worth it. OoG I'm sure it was miserable for Bur (@bur still be my friend) but in game once the lynch was no longer imminent I had hoped he would return to form once my plan was revealed and the wagon was halted. And we would be left with a very near confirmed town in the game which is always valuable.
Did you read my previous post? About me imploding?
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Shadow All of your answers make sense just want a follow up on town reads. You have Gruffin and Mind (pending tonight) as your top town reads. Mindreaver obviously isn't a behavioural one given your vote has been on him for large swaths of today. So by behaviour who are your top 3? Gruffin and who else? Skimming your Iso didn't paint a picture of someone with too many town reads. I saw resisting town reads on Kit and giving a vague you'd move a few people around from KJ's list but you overall like it. I know your scum reads are shot to hell right now, but a top 3 behavioural town reads would help me figure out where you're coming from.
Regarding my resistance to a town read on Kit, that was really early and everything they posted since then lead me to a town read. As for a third...I really like Cantrip, and I'd be lying if I said his "Oh you" pic didn't make me want to throw him in my town pile and never look back. Playing as scum with him and then losing as town against scum him makes me extra cautious about him, but I think that bridge will get crossed later and I'm happy to give him the slot.
So:
Gruffin
Kit/Rodemy
Cantrip
(Note: Rodemy's entrance and subsequent posts have all read as null (well really just as standard Rodemy) to me, but the baseline that he's working with leaves me with little worry)
Where are you at this game? Let's say Hunt flips scum, what do you do then? And if he flips town?
@Shadow:
Do you have examples of you pocketing as town?
I'm not as successful as town so far, but in Lights out 2 I tried to pocket tom (claimed I wasn't, but we both knew I was), it kind of worked too, he stopped voting me and I lead the lynch on his buddy Megs; and in Disinheritance I tried to reverse a pocket on GJ when I thought he was scum, that got me empowerment (game specific mechanic) and also let me feed him false role info so that I seemed like more of a threat to scum than I actually was.
Quote from Rhand »
Do you believe OMGUS is a scumtell?
If we are going with the strictest definition of OMGUS, which is calling someone scum because they voted for you, then yeah, I think it's more likely to come from scum. However, OMGUS now seems to loosely mean voting someone who is voting you, regardless of why, which I think isn't a scumtell.
Quote from Rhand »
What is your current read on Terry? And Grapefruit?
Terry is lean scum, I'm seeing a lot of the same types of posts from him that made him seem scummy in the early/later parts of Avalon. He's also pretty solid at bussing, and the interaction between him and Cyan has a hint of scum/scum to it (cyan "While your push is stupid, it seems like a townie push"), so while I think cyan is fairly null, a scum flip from Terry would make me delve a little harder into cyan's posts.
Regarding Grapefruit, I feel like he's speaking to the audience he has. His response to me are reasonable, while somewhat ego stroking ("I think you're better than that as scum" etc) in a way that I don't want to scum read him, but he feels disconnected. For instance, he pretty solidly implied I was scum by association with Hunt, but his post that I quoted above doesn't reflect that mindset. "All of your answers make sense..." "I know your scum reads are shot to [heck] right now..." It just feels like he's reaching out to me in a way that knows I'm town, but preparing to try and take me down later anyway.
Actually talking myself through that I feel a lot better about my vote on him.
Also, did you miss my question to you? Do you have a recent scum game I could peruse?
_________________________________________________
I'm going on record here and saying I don't like the hunt wagon, this just doesn't feel like a scum!hunt game.
1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.
2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.
Vote Huntzilla.
Inb4 OMGUS
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Just in case you forgot, Hunt
Avacado's Sub
Hunt
AG
Are the only people I would advocate lynching. MOved Cythare off as his sub is at least doing something. So I don't know where you got that I was ok "lynching anyone."
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Town doesn't usually care what their replacee has said in the game. I for sure never read my former's posts unless someone else references them, votes them for it etc to see if it's a relevent vote.
Scum do read that stuff though. Religiously.
"Is that it?"?
Hm.
Vote Grapefruit
What is town!Rodemy again?
I like Bur. There was some stuff early on that seemed self-conscious, but he feels incredibly genuine and inquisitive.
Also kind of liking Gf's rvs phase, for the playful yet thoughtful feel to it.
Hi. Explaining your thought process with more than just the word telling is really helpful for convincing people (including slowpokes who aren't caught up) /and/ helping people read you. It's a win-win.
Someone point out anything scummy.
Cyan still feels wrong to me. He's jumped on each new wagon that's popped up. He jumped on the Hunt wagon and the AG wagon and it makes me feel uncomfortable voting for the same player as him.
You saying this.
Idk, when people are all like "well gee wilikers, i'm town" it reads scum to me.
@hunts townread of me: i wrote that first post before i got my role pm. Sooo.. lets see.
Yes, it's accurate.(gee wilikers.. god damnit...) But the fact i could have posted that with scum role and him say "rodemy is town" kinda makes it lose some credibility.. so where is this insta townread coming from?
^^^ yes. This can be used a smoking gun in any mislynch of me in the foreseeable future. I post it with that knowledge.
Perhaps it is due to the pressure of knowing that I must somehow bear the burden of an entire world. Perhaps it is caused by the death I have seen, the friends I have lost. The friends I have been forced to kill.
Either way, I sometimes see shadows following me. Dark creatures that I don't understand, nor wish to understand. Are they, perhaps, some figment of my overtaxed mind
Vote Count 1.14 (9 to lynch)
[3] Huntzilla - Grapefruit21, Cyan, Gentleman Johnny
[3] Grapefruit21 - Rodemy, shadowlancerx, killjoy
[2] Cyan - Gruffinchops, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] AtheistGod - Mindreaver
[1] Bur - AtheistGod
[1] Mindreaver - quixotic72
[1] Gentleman Johnny - Huntzilla
Not Voting: fulcrum, Bur, Cantripmancer, Rhand
quixotic is V/LA for this week.
Gruffinchops and Bur have been prodded.
The deadline is Tuesday, March 21st.
Pretty sure my first post of the game was expressing suspicion toward Hunt, and AG shortly thereafter. Before anyone else, IIRC. I even pointed out recently why it makes sense for them to be scum TOGETHER.
Hell, you literally just pointed out yet another scummy AG post.
Well you should know he's scum because he's posted words. BEcause you don't think he is scum that makes him scum and you his scumbuddy.
P.S. You're terrible.
(In case you aren't quick enough to catch it, the last part is sarcasm)
Unvote
Vote Cyan
Much better place for my vote.
Cyan’s continued responses to me fail to impress.
409 is bad when he says, “Hunt doesn't seem to think that Cantrip is town, despite this being the general opinion, but also doesn't want to tell us why.”
My gut reaction to this is thinking that Cyan is trying to peer pressure Hunt. I’m not clear if this really means that Hunt is scum because he doesn’t agree with the majority or because he isn’t explaining the read. Honestly, I dislike both of these reasons as a means to suspect someone, but considering how I’ve been on Cyan’s case for not explaining things I’m not much better in that regard. Yay hypocrisy. Then there’s this line, “Mostly it's just tone. The tone of his posts just feels bad to me.” Like okay, easy justification.
The rest of his post reads as condescending to SJTs case. Granted, this is a case against Cyan, so some lashback is to be expected, but this isn’t cooperation with a fellow townie, this is discrediting a townread’s ideas.
His read of Hunt is bleh as it’s based on disagreement with reads and I don’t see how that is scummy. Personally, I’d love to see reads that don’t perfectly align with my own, because that lowers the chances that town will get stuck in a game-long tunnel. Then he votes AG in a Hunt post.
421 Okay, he explained what he meant, but seriously how could Cyan know that’s what Hunt was doing? The word “refusal” suggests that Hunt is actively against calling Cantrip town, which is a misrepresentation.
@Grapefruit21, I’m coming around on Bur. After awhile of thinking about his contributions, none of them had enough game solving purpose. I can see scum asking softball questions like that early on to appear to scumhunt without actually helping town out. His recent reentry continues to be soft. Why wasn’t 416 posted earlier?
Hey Killjoy what makes you think that town can’t be bloodthirsty? Meaning, what makes Mind/SJT scummy for quickly jumping on me like that? Personally I find the jump to be pretty townie because of how bad it immediately looks. Scum would care a lot more about their image especially since they would know I’m town and that “scumslip” would be easily disproven. Also I avoided the Mind wagon earlier for similar reasons, why aren’t you heckling me about it?
That would be an awful waste of a D1 lynch. We need those sweet, sweet interactions later on and honestly I’m disliking this adovation for lynching below the mod line on D1.
He says that Bur is likely town because he has three votes and is easy to push as mislynch fodder. The wording implies that’s the situation that GJ was thinking was happening.
Hey I’m null on AG, which one am I? Explain to me how GJ is obviously town, because I’m not seeing it.
Shadow’s push on Grape is weak. 495 really doesn’t help this.
I agree with Cyan in 496. Weird.
Getting to reading Huntz ISO and The Grape Wall of China soon.
He LITERALLY says 'I am not willing to give Cantrip a town cookie just yet'. That is absolutely being actively against calling someone town.
And my case against Hunt is not based on 'disagreement with reads'. It's based on what I consider false bravado on his part when he responded to my first post to him, and his general demeanor.
But at this point, it's largely based on his complete lack of interaction with AG. Hunt has posted about everything in the game. He literally quoted a post where someone ELSE was attacking AG and responded to that post, but still couldn't manage to actually say anything about AG himself. As I explained, either A)Hunt didn't want to put more pressure on a scumbuddy when that person's wagon might not going anywhere or B)he is scum that feels like the wagon will advance on it's own and he didn't need to dirty his hands with it.
There is just no rational explanation for Town-Hunt saying nothing re: AG. It makes no sense. Hunt is extremely active and AG has been a popular topic of discussion for like a week now. Some kind of commentary should have occurred.
Also, his vote on me is comical.
For christ sakes though, I have no real experience with AG, and his posts have not pinged me. Is that hard to understand?
Also, since I know you read it, but chose to ignore it because it has validity here. My post about your Bur comment is getting at the fact that your case, when used reflexively against you, should show you how absurd you sound.
I mean scum read me for days, Mr. No Brakes, that's all well and good. But come up with something actually convincing. You look scummy as **** trying to make up reasons.
It doesn't mean anything for you to comment on AG now that you've been called out for..not doing so.
And I specifically asked people why they think Bur is scum, stating flatly that I didn't understand it. Additionally, to my knowledge, no one even actually answered. How does that have anything to do with what I'm accusing you of? For that matter, how does it have anything to do with anything?
Uh-huh. So you think I'm scum, but want me to do a better job of casing you. Please explain this obvious cognative disassociation.
Upon my iso of you, you read much better than I had it all sounding in my mind. So kudos, you are officially moved up my list GJ.
Can you tell me why you and Cyan are moving your votes around in unison? Is he a lost puppy, or just coincidence because you guys are syncing up your menstruation or something?
RVS. Null
Yeah, gone for nearly four pages and then we get this gem. Some superficial throw aways and the most daring thing is Cyan at Null and Kitbits as a "sounds off.: Not a great reentry to the thread. Scum lean Called out on his cyan throw away comment. Fencesits. +Scum points again. I agree with him on the assessment here for Kitbits. I agree with his town reads (aside from Cantrip mind you). The question is a softball, and doesn't help him to garner an alignment tell from Terry. At least I can't think of a reason why that would help. With that brings this post to null conclusion for me. Part was scummy, some was solid. Well, he got a reaction out of SJT, but still don't see that it shed light on alignment. Lean scum. Null. It's a clarifying question. Clarifying again... I'm gonna award scum points though for ignoring interactions that are meaningful so many times in a row. Null, nothing here. This reads more like townie indignation here. Ok, now he's been entirely too focused on votes on him. Scum points.... This defense reads better. It at least doesn't sound like whining or CFTWR Okay, following up on questions is an important townie trait. One of the few we've seen so far. Yucky boring fencesit scummmmy Yeah. This is gross in context.
Well, color me bashful Cyan. I will go on record and say I'm sorry, I clearly wasn't reading well enough in regard to AG. He looks scummy in a vacuum.
I do think you are likely to be his partner busing the ***** out of him, but we can talk about that another time.
Unvote Cyan
Vote AG
There is no cognitive dissonance in taunting you? Get off your high horse for a second. Also, the point was in the argument I summed up and posted, bot the circumstances. Though while we're talking about it, you understand what you posted looks rhetorical, right? Probably why you didn't get any answers.
@Cyan I think I explained my Bur case multiple times. May never have directed it at you though.
@Shadow All of your answers make sense just want a follow up on town reads. You have Gruffin and Mind (pending tonight) as your top town reads. Mindreaver obviously isn't a behavioural one given your vote has been on him for large swaths of today. So by behaviour who are your top 3? Gruffin and who else? Skimming your Iso didn't paint a picture of someone with too many town reads. I saw resisting town reads on Kit and giving a vague you'd move a few people around from KJ's list but you overall like it. I know your scum reads are shot to hell right now, but a top 3 behavioural town reads would help me figure out where you're coming from.
100% this.
Finished reading your Hunt post and Hunt’s ISO, here’s what I got on ‘em.
Huntz entry was pretty odd with that double vote, enough to turn a few heads. Worth noting, though not much on it’s own.Fast forward to his scum points on Logic. The broken quotes in that post confused me for longer than I care to admit. I don’t agree with the logic, but I can follow. What I don’t get is the resistance towards voting someone who displayed scummy behavior in his mind.
Next post is jumping onto the Mind train. I didn’t like this vote or it’s reasons, but it was better than a blank sheep like a couple of the others were.
Interested in what pinged him about GJs posts as he never followed up on that.
As for your case, I partially agree with your points.
Don’t agree on the point about Logic/Mind voting because while the Mind vote was pretty sheep-y, it had more to it than his scum points on Logic. Also don’t agree that 269 was strictly an attack/defence deal like you say. The question is a fair one, and one that I could see myself asking if I had gotten to that post first.
Agree that the interactions with Shadow are pretty forced sounding and definitely agree on some of the inconsistencies that you point out in his T/S list (Shadow as top town/Rhand read/Logic read)
Cantrip not being in the pool I can see, because Huntz posts read more like he didn’t want to townread Cantrip yet, but he’s close. Not sure I’m seeing the pocketing attempt, but it’s something I can easily see popping into your mind when someone shady starts agreeing with you. Town points for Grape.
This case is really well-developed and something that I have a hard time seeing coming from scum!Grape.
I read that line as "I'm close, but not yet" but after seeing him say "I agree with his town reads (aside from Cantrip mind you)" in 526, I'm inclined to agree that he's against it now. Perhaps I'm the real misrepresenter here.
Hmm, thanks for clarifying. I can agree his demeanor isn't fitting with what he says. My main question after rereading his ISO is why would town say they want pressure their way? I can think of reasons why scum would want to say that (to look fearless, and thus not like a survivalistic scumlord) but I can’t wrap my head around why a townie would talk like that. Couple this with his attitude towards players who are actually pressuring him, and we’ve got an inconsistency on our hands.
Count me in on this wagon. Unvote, Vote: Huntzilla
Have you looked through Grape's wall yet? What do you think about his points?
Town
Rhand
Gruffin (nothing that changed my opinion)
Cantripmancer (wide focus, follows up on most of his questioning lines, similar game view as me)
Lean town
Shadow (I really like how he tried to get people to commit to a Mind read when the wagon was getting big. I don’t like his pocketing though)
Mind (rereading him put my mind at ease. He did a great job defending himself vs Cantrip while still hunting. I probably overreacted on his T/S waffling. + He claimed Vin)
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
Cyan (Took him a long time to start posting content, but now that he is, I like it)
Hunt (Reads similar to our last game, where I correctly read him as town. There’s more, but I don’t want to go into that yet. I do hope “For Cyan, my love” isn’t a roleclaim lol)
Null
GJ (I still have no clue. Will hopefully become clear on later Days. Flips will help, he’s given a lot of opinions)
TRSJT (His posting has improved. I like the pressure on Cyan, it made Cyan post better. I don’t understand why he’s still voting Cyan tho)
Lean scum
Fulcrum/Cythare (The only thing Fulcrum did on entry is saying he likes my 2 main scumspects)
Quixotic/Logic (Logic never unvoted his RVS vote and quixotic’s Mindreaver vote is opportunistic)
Killjoy/Apocado (Apocado’s Mindreaver vote was the worst of the lot. KJ is voting my main scumspect, but isn’t really trying to get him lynched)
Scum
Bur (Doesn’t follow up on all his questions, IIRC lurking is his scum!meta)
AG (only calls people town and responds to stuff directed at him. Not inquisitive)
Grapefruit (Deserves a post of his own. I’ll get to that)
-----
@Shadow:
Do you have examples of you pocketing as town?
Do you believe OMGUS is a scumtell?
What is your current read on Terry? And Grapefruit?
@Terry:
Do you still think Cyan is scum after his last response to you?
@Gruffin:
How well do you know Grape? How sure are you that his Hunt case isn’t scum motivated?
@AG:
T/S with reasonings please?
@Anyone:
Does Bur lurk as town too? I seem to remember it’s his scum meta, but I’m not 100% sure.
Anyways can't wait to see how you're incorrectly reading me as scum this time.
Plus, I love the bravado/joking posts. Nothing pisses people off like taunting. Once people get tilted, it becomes easier to read intentions
The reasoning for keeping his vote on Bur is bad:
No one reacts to having 3 RVS votes.
And the “banter” he’s talking about is all RVS as well. Simply calling it “awful” does nothing. It won’t convince anyone Bur is scum and it won’t get a reaction out of Bur.
When asked to explain, he gives this:
He has a meta read of Bur that he doesn’t really believe in.
So all he has is the townclear of Gruffin. Townclearing people is something many were doing.
On to that meta read of Bur: He says this:
Bolded mine.
But now he says this:
Bolded mine again. Grape was voting Bur based off meta he’s never experienced apparently.
He was going to push him to show his town!meta, but he has no scum!meta to compare that with.
Bad excuses for that early push.
His next posts are about Bur (but not with Bur), until he makes a waffling post about GJ to show us all he has no read on him with a lot of words:
His next post is one I can’t shrug off. He says I’m setting up low hanging fruit, but apparently doesn’t think I’m scum.
I also don’t get why he’s defending Apocado like this:
His next posts are all fine. He asks questions. Of note: he thinks AG is town.
Then he goes back to Bur:
So what is the difference exactly? Town!Bur lurks and scum!Bur is active and then replaces out?
Because in that case… this is town!Bur and you should not be pushing him anymore at that point.
You know who’s below the modline? Bur.
And then the Huntz case comes, in which Hunt is scum because of a connection to Shadow / AG and because you think he pockets you because he /barns your Bur read.
That case is very weak.
I dislike your TLDR:
The inconsistency is your only valid point.
The pocketing is nonsense. If you don’t want people to believe in your Bur case, then why bother posting it?
A possible connection with Shadow and AG does NOT make Hunt scum.
The defence of AG to Terry is exactly what you did to me about Apocado.
I don’t get why anyone is sheeping this case.
TL;DR:
Grapefruit pushes Bur based on meta he doesn’t know and holds on to that read until he makes his Hunt case, which is not a good case. His only good point is inconsistency. Everything else is calling Hunt scum by proxy (because of AG / Shadow) and accusing him of something he did himself (Hunt’s defense of AG is very much the same as Grape’s defense of Apocado earlier).
He also has a tendency to post stuff that helps no one (a null-case about GJ; telling me I’m picking LHF while apparently he doesn’t think that’s a scumtell)
vote: Grapefruit21
Wrt to my GJ post I actually came out of it with a town read. A bit waffly, but a town read that has endured in the interim. And that's in the wall, I say it seems like it comes from town but ask for others (implying those familiar with GJ) to double check my read.
Last thing Hunt butting in on RSJTs post wasn't a pure defense it also discredits SJT without engaging with the rest of the post. I would argue my apocado defense wasn't only defending him but drawing comparisons to others with similar behavior.
It's a bit different in scope, but the point of both is to get the quoted to expand their read by challenging the premise. I just think mine isn't scummy in context, while Huntz has no context.
But you say you have no scum meta to compare Bur with? And you kept voting him until the recent Hunt case while saying multiple times you don't like the votes below the modline.
You come out with a very waffly GJ read. You start the whole summary by saying you don't know.
You're ignoring a big part of my case too.
Why does /barning you on your Bur case equal pocketing? And why does that make Hunt scum?
And why feel the need to call me out on pursuing lhf and compare that to gj while you don't think that makes either of us scum?
And why make a whole wall about GJ to explain a lean town read?
Re Bur: I do have scum meta. He white knighted someone who would have been an easy mislynch D1 and then replaced out. During that game he appeared more engaged and had his finger on the pulse of the game which he decidedly didn't as town in his two most recent town games I've seen.
As for my inconsistent push I can't come out and say I'm tunneling him to see if he crumbles like he did in Disinheritance and Harhui mafias. Kind of defeats the purpose. So yeah my meta read moved around slightly but consistently with the idea he lurks hard core as town and doesn't have a good feel for the game and plays differently and with better self defense as scum.
On GJ I was drawing attention to my lean in detail because I thought there was enough there to read him. With my limited knowledge of GJ I only felt comfortable giving him a lean for the loose shooting from the hip vibes I got from him. Someone more familiar might have been able to do something stronger with that info.
Hunt barning my Bur case alone doesn't make him scum. It doesn't make it him trying to pocket me. That was the most tenuous part of my read, but it came from that catch up/reread post being focused heavily on that read. It felt like a pocket attempt so I called it that. It might not have been that doesn't make his progression super towny either. I felt much more strongly about the inconsistencies in his top 3 list but wanted to include everything.
As for the lhf thing I felt it was scummy, but not scummy enough to outweigh the rest of your posts. Or GJs (which is why it was waffly he'd been scummy and towny just more towny) but worth mentioning. If you're scum it's good to have it to refer back to later and if you're town it might snap you out of a trap of settling for an easy lynch rather than a good lynch. Seen too many of those.
Hmm... I was actually under the impression that you were voting scum!Bur and kept your vote on him during the growth of town!Mind's wagon to look good later on, but now my conclusion is shifting to Bur being town if you're scum, and you voting him for malicious reasons.
@Bur: weigh in here please. Do you think town!Grape would do that to you?
@Anyone: I would like someone else than Grape to weigh in on Bur's meta.
@Rhand
Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
Explain that last bit.
Knowing you cant read me, how do you feel about hunts townclear of me?
Yeah right. The last time I saw you get wagoned Day 1(and I'm pretty sure you were town there), at no point did you 'enjoy the pressure'. You literally used 'I always get lynched day one' as a point to stop people from wagoning you.
You mean that "trying to get me to implode" thing? To be frank, I have no idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have no idea about grape's meta (I've only seen him being town and even then I was scum reading him for the whole time I was alive.) (I've played with him twice, once as a town and once as a scum, when I didn't pay attention to his meta since I knew he wasn't mafia)
More questions, Rhand? (Besides my reads, since my "do not lynch" -pile only contains Mindreaver atm and I don't have any good reads on anyone else.)
@grapefruit: Me imploding doesn't necessarily mean I'm town. I'm perfectly aware (and I kinda wished that no one would become aware of it) that I tend to crumble under the pressure as town. I was prepared to fake that in FT Mafia had there been a situation where I would've been under heat. And I wish you wouldn't consider that as a part of town!Bur meta and would never bring that up again.
Did you read my previous post? About me imploding?
So:
Gruffin
Kit/Rodemy
Cantrip
(Note: Rodemy's entrance and subsequent posts have all read as null (well really just as standard Rodemy) to me, but the baseline that he's working with leaves me with little worry)
Where are you at this game? Let's say Hunt flips scum, what do you do then? And if he flips town? I'm not as successful as town so far, but in Lights out 2 I tried to pocket tom (claimed I wasn't, but we both knew I was), it kind of worked too, he stopped voting me and I lead the lynch on his buddy Megs; and in Disinheritance I tried to reverse a pocket on GJ when I thought he was scum, that got me empowerment (game specific mechanic) and also let me feed him false role info so that I seemed like more of a threat to scum than I actually was. If we are going with the strictest definition of OMGUS, which is calling someone scum because they voted for you, then yeah, I think it's more likely to come from scum. However, OMGUS now seems to loosely mean voting someone who is voting you, regardless of why, which I think isn't a scumtell. Terry is lean scum, I'm seeing a lot of the same types of posts from him that made him seem scummy in the early/later parts of Avalon. He's also pretty solid at bussing, and the interaction between him and Cyan has a hint of scum/scum to it (cyan "While your push is stupid, it seems like a townie push"), so while I think cyan is fairly null, a scum flip from Terry would make me delve a little harder into cyan's posts.
Regarding Grapefruit, I feel like he's speaking to the audience he has. His response to me are reasonable, while somewhat ego stroking ("I think you're better than that as scum" etc) in a way that I don't want to scum read him, but he feels disconnected. For instance, he pretty solidly implied I was scum by association with Hunt, but his post that I quoted above doesn't reflect that mindset. "All of your answers make sense..." "I know your scum reads are shot to [heck] right now..." It just feels like he's reaching out to me in a way that knows I'm town, but preparing to try and take me down later anyway.
Actually talking myself through that I feel a lot better about my vote on him.
Also, did you miss my question to you? Do you have a recent scum game I could peruse?
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I'm going on record here and saying I don't like the hunt wagon, this just doesn't feel like a scum!hunt game.