@GJ: Your response makes me feel better about you. I still don't quite think I agree with you in 105 regarding why you're townreading Bur. Can you respond to Rhand's question in 106? Because that's sort of my question, too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, GJ, but a lot of other sites use V = Villager, and W = Wolf instead of the T = Town and S = Scum, that is common on this site, right? Which is why you said VV = strong town, V = town, and W = scum?
@Gruffin: Thanks for confirming. Given that daychat is seen (here, at least) as pretty powerful, I would be surprised if Proph gave daychat to scum this game. Hence, you assuming that to be the case points to you being very likely town, as if you were scum, you would have known (and likely wouldn't have brought attention to it). That said, there's a chance there IS daychat in this game, and your assumption was that that was the norm, or that you knew it wasn't the norm, but are just that good as scum...but I'm pretty sure this points very strongly to you being town.
Regarding 86: Thanks for confirming. It wasn't completely clear to me (although it seemed to be to Shadow, so maybe it was just my read that was off), and I wanted to make sure I understood.
@Mind: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat before you posted 136?
@SJT: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat OR GJ's comment about it in 137 before you posted 141?
/barn the Gruffin read.
Added to that the skepticism/critical thinking regarding GJ and I, Gruffin is solidly town.
Oh, I keep forgetting to ask: When did blogs stop being updatable, and does anyone know if that is something that might come back? If not, what suggestions would people make if I wanted to recreate my Mafia Stats blog post (the "Cantrip Heaven" link in my sig) in some other fashion?
@SJT: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat OR GJ's comment about it in 137 before you posted 141?
No, but she still doesn't feel right to me. I'll drop the Slip-Stuff, but her asking for reads on herself does not sit well with me and, I know it sounds bad, but the posts feel over-towny, maybe compensating. I'm leaving my vote there for now because my spider-senses are tingling.
Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.
I don't really had a rationale. Bur was on tone + votes. Tone was the main thing because tone is all that has really happened so far. The fact that rvs votes aren't unvoting, and no one else is adding ontop of it goes to my point about Bur being seen as toxic to push from the mafia team.
@Mind: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat before you posted 136?
Ha, no. Probably the more adulttownobnoxious way to handle it
FTFY. Why were you so quick to jump on Gruffin for his post? What do you think of SJT following you onto Gruffin?
I wanted to see what gruff would say, and yes, I was surprised that SJT followed me. I find SJT hard to read, but I wouldn't call that necessarily scummy. At least what I've seen from him has been very passionate, emotion-based posting. NAI that he'd jump there.
@GentlemenJohnny It isn't that I have lackluster posts, Its just in my personality to be more calm while I question others. My play usually picks up when I come up with a read. By the way, why do you dislike my last 2 posts?
I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Human kind can not gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is Alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange." ~Alphonse Elric
Ehm you start with “you misunderstand me” and end with “You’re the one quick to jump on me”.
What is it? Do you believe I am misunderstanding what you said or do you believe I’m looking for something to quickly jump on? Because those two statements don’t mesh.
I’m not sure what that says about your alignment tho.
Misunderstanding someone and jumping on them are not mutually exclusive. Why are you implying they are? At this point it sounds like you're grasping just to argue with me.
I really like Kit so far. @Kit thoughts/past experience on Logic? Not able to really get a feel for him yet, and I'd like your thoughts.
At the time of your post, I feel like he's not super active and pushing to move the game forward. He did point out that one thing but didn't say much about it besides that he thought it was non aligned. (I've played with him in shorter phase games, but never as scum, as he's never been scum).
-after reading more of the thread, I still feel like he isn't as present as usual, but I do think his train of thought is understandable regarding the alignments he's discussed.
Why is no one using their votes in a serious manner?
Voting analysis is gonna be difficult later on if everyone sticks to their RVS vote when RVS is over.
I stayed on GJ because that is who I was most suspicious of as of page 2. I even made a post that mentioned I thought he was susp.
Because this is the 2nd-3rd person who brought up my town reads, Mtgsalvation is jokably slow compared to basically every other site I have played on. ~48 hours in, why is it that hard to believe I have two people as town? It's early day 1, lots of things can change, but the only reason I don't have more is it feels like we are playing with half the deck.
Timeframe doesn't matter as much as content posted in the thread, and there just isn't that much content in the thread (as of when I made the post you quoted). I don't even feel like you have really explained why I'm town, I haven't even done anything.
Regarding your question in 116: Is it common on whatever site you usually frequent that scum have daychat? It's not very common here, so it's sometimes (but not often) a thing to catch scum because they're coaching each other in-thread. Your asking about it, though, gives me good town vibes from you (unless this game has daychat, of course).
Oh wow I hadn't even realized that. Both me and Gruffin are from a site where every game has day chat for scum. If there really is no day chat in this game that sounds like a town slip from Gruffin since I don't feel like she'd have faked not knowing... I honestly was wondering the same thing about why would scum coach in the main thread.
@Cantrip I'm male and I've played 8ish games. This is number 2 on MTGS. FYI I'm familiar with some meta here though because I got into mafia reading MTGS games while bored at work before deciding that I should just play.
Can you expand a bit more on your GJ read as well. I've spent a lot of my time this game on GJ and I've found my opinion swinging wildly back and forth. I'm having trouble reconciling posts 50 and 101.
Anyone else is free to jump in on that question as well, I just want to hear from Cantrip first.
I'm still happy with my vote on Bur at this point. And if the deadline were in 24 hours I'd be choosing between Bur, Johnny, Mind, Shadow, Apocado, and TRSJT for the lynch.
@Kit: Some of this has been alluded to already, but could you state your Mafia experience and preferred gender pronouns?
@Grape: Ditto.
@Gruffin: Ditto.
@Logic: Ditto.
I've played LOTS of games on this site, one game on MafiaUniverse, and I am male.
@GJ:
• In 50,your tone feels confident, but you say it's too early to be reading Kit so pure/town. Why do you feel it's too early?
• In 109, why do you say that Rhand's taking the path of least resistance?
@Bur: The part of Gruffin's post that you bolded in 81 seems very obvious to me. What was confusing to you?
@Gruffin:
• What exactly were you asking Shadow in 86?
• Regarding your question in 116: Is it common on whatever site you usually frequent that scum have daychat? It's not very common here, so it's sometimes (but not often) a thing to catch scum because they're coaching each other in-thread. Your asking about it, though, gives me good town vibes from you (unless this game has daychat, of course).
@GJ/Rhand: What's "lhf" (posts 105/106)?
Ok, so enough questions; here are some light reads:
Lean town:
• Gruffin, for 62 and 116
• Rhand, for the RVS vote frustration in 99, as well as general sincerity
• Shadow, for good questions in multiple posts
Lean scum:
• Bur, for feeling very self-aware and precise, but also wanting to look like he's questioning, but using odd question choices (54, question to Gruffin in 81).
• GentlemanJohnny, for the angry tone in 103 when responding to Rhand about the Cyan-related post. GJ, I feel like if you're going to make cryptic posts like that, you shouldn't get upset that someone questions you about them. If you're really wanting to note something as a reminder or a way to compare later Cyan posts, put it in your notes. This feels more like you throwing light mud at Cyan by way of mysterious implication, then getting upset that someone actually asked you to explain it.
As for my vote: Unvote, Vote Mindreaver
First off, Mindreaver, I don't buy that your "I hate agreeing with GJ" was a throw away line. It feels like fabricated emotion. Similarly with the "I hate Shadow's interactions with Bur." I feel like if you were town and felt like Shadow was acting scummy, then saw him interacting with Bur in a way you found coaching, you'd be excited/happy to be making connections between players that lead to solving the game. Instead, you're using "hate" language; again, it feels like fabricated emotion, and misplaced at that.
In addition, your question to Rhand at the end of 95 feels premature. Like...it feels too early in the game for any player to develop more than one degree of suspicion. So I would expect Rhand to be able to explain how he feels about GJ, but asking him to make sophisticated reads on Cyan and Bur based on his GJ read this early...you come off as overeager to get his opinion on them.
Finally, I'm not sure I believe that you have Shadow and Bur as aligned in your notes without also having why you think they're aligned. Your response in 115 feels like you're scrambling to justify that read.
I don't even understand what I'm supposed to do. The Terris philosophers claim that I'll know my duty when the time comes, but that's a small comfort.
The Deepness must be destroyed, and apparently I'm the only one who can do so. It ravages the world even now. If I don't stop it soon, there will be nothing left of this land but bones and dust.
It just wholly reads like Cantrip is trying to solve the game with that post. And he is assertive and confident in a way that doesn't feel like scum at all.
It just wholly reads like Cantrip is trying to solve the game with that post. And he is assertive and confident in a way that doesn't feel like scum at all.
And no, I haven't read that game. Why?
I agree. Problem is, Cantrip sounds exactly the same as scum.
It just wholly reads like Cantrip is trying to solve the game with that post. And he is assertive and confident in a way that doesn't feel like scum at all.
And no, I haven't read that game. Why?
I agree. Problem is, Cantrip sounds exactly the same as scum.
It just wholly reads like Cantrip is trying to solve the game with that post. And he is assertive and confident in a way that doesn't feel like scum at all.
And no, I haven't read that game. Why?
I agree. Problem is, Cantrip sounds exactly the same as scum.
@GentlemenJohnny It isn't that I have lackluster posts, Its just in my personality to be more calm while I question others. My play usually picks up when I come up with a read. By the way, why do you dislike my last 2 posts?
I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.
Your opening made a psuedo bad impression with me, for making a post, and not reading all of the ~100 posts at the time. With at least half being RVS ***** votes, it would not have taken that much time to get over it. I feel like your tone is playing cautious right now, which while isn't inherently wolfy, does not feel appropriate. It feels like you are trying to post safely under the radar.
Why do you think Mindreaver posts feel forced and insincere?
@Cyan: What exactly about Cantrip's post resonated town to you? Side question, have you read any of overwatch Mafia?
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
@Cyan: What exactly about Cantrip's post resonated town to you? Side question, have you read any of overwatch Mafia?
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
My you're jumpy. I really just wanted to see if you had any reason to still be on her, maybe you still had something that you didn't like. But you didn't respond with a thought out reason, you twisted this towards someone else, everyone else in fact. RVS votes still being there has nothing to do with your serious vote being there.
@Cyan: What exactly about Cantrip's post resonated town to you? Side question, have you read any of overwatch Mafia?
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
What is the bolded a reference to?
Your 137 in response to my 136. You answered the daychat/coaching thing before gruff had a chance to. The reason I asked Shadow, was to see if he saw it as Helpful-Town-GJ (how I read it) or as something malicious.
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
My you're jumpy. I really just wanted to see if you had any reason to still be on her, maybe you still had something that you didn't like. But you didn't respond with a thought out reason, you twisted this towards someone else, everyone else in fact. RVS votes still being there has nothing to do with your serious vote being there.
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
My you're jumpy. I really just wanted to see if you had any reason to still be on her, maybe you still had something that you didn't like. But you didn't respond with a thought out reason, you twisted this towards someone else, everyone else in fact. RVS votes still being there has nothing to do with your serious vote being there.
Vote Mindreaver
I twisted it to everyone? LoL. Damn I'm good.
The bolded basically reads as "Don't look at me, look at anyone else!"
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
My you're jumpy. I really just wanted to see if you had any reason to still be on her, maybe you still had something that you didn't like. But you didn't respond with a thought out reason, you twisted this towards someone else, everyone else in fact. RVS votes still being there has nothing to do with your serious vote being there.
Vote Mindreaver
I twisted it to everyone? LoL. Damn I'm good.
The bolded basically reads as "Don't look at me, look at anyone else!"
I think it means, "why are you cherry-picking my vote patterns?" and I was implying "do you sense an easy mislynch target?"
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
My you're jumpy. I really just wanted to see if you had any reason to still be on her, maybe you still had something that you didn't like. But you didn't respond with a thought out reason, you twisted this towards someone else, everyone else in fact. RVS votes still being there has nothing to do with your serious vote being there.
Vote Mindreaver
I twisted it to everyone? LoL. Damn I'm good.
The bolded basically reads as "Don't look at me, look at anyone else!"
I think it means, "why are you cherry-picking my vote patterns?" and I was implying "do you sense an easy mislynch target?"
And now you're omgusing. Why don't you answer my original question, are you happy with your vote still being on Gruffin? I waited several posts to see if you'd unvote, and when you didn't, I asked. And all I'm getting from you is snark and shade.
My you're jumpy. I really just wanted to see if you had any reason to still be on her, maybe you still had something that you didn't like. But you didn't respond with a thought out reason, you twisted this towards someone else, everyone else in fact. RVS votes still being there has nothing to do with your serious vote being there.
Vote Mindreaver
I twisted it to everyone? LoL. Damn I'm good.
The bolded basically reads as "Don't look at me, look at anyone else!"
I think it means, "why are you cherry-picking my vote patterns?" and I was implying "do you sense an easy mislynch target?"
And now you're omgusing. Why don't you answer my original question, are you happy with your vote still being on Gruffin? I waited several posts to see if you'd unvote, and when you didn't, I asked. And all I'm getting from you is snark and shade.
No, I'm not happy with my vote being there. I don't want her lynched. She's in no danger of that. When I get to re-reading, sometime today, I'll move it where I think it belongs.
Part of me just doesn't want to unvote now because it's been such a big thing. But if it makes you happy Shadow: Unvote.
I'm not OMGUSing, per se. But take a look from my perspective:
1) I know my alignment.
2) I have 4 Votes. Leading wagon, yay!
3) Scum would be looking for reasons to push me.
4) You push me for leaving my vote on somebody in no danger of anything. Even after I've conceded that I overreacted.
5) There are other votes that are equally guilty, those people just aren't gathering votes themselves.
What would you think? Probably that some people on your wagon are scum. I'm looking at you and Cyan. Possibly Apacado, but GJ seems to be digging into that. I'm content to see how that plays out.
@SJT: If you wanted to get Gruffin's response to your 121 before responding to Apocado in 132, why didn't you say "I'd like Gruffin to respond before I answer this"? Your "it was really more of a statement than a question" comment comes off a bit like you weren't really asking Gruffin a question, just smearing/painting/establishing a record of suspicion. Do you disagree that Gruffin's assumption--given her meta background--makes her strongly likely to be town?
It just wholly reads like Cantrip is trying to solve the game with that post. And he is assertive and confident in a way that doesn't feel like scum at all.
And no, I haven't read that game. Why?
I agree. Problem is, Cantrip sounds exactly the same as scum.
It just wholly reads like Cantrip is trying to solve the game with that post. And he is assertive and confident in a way that doesn't feel like scum at all.
And no, I haven't read that game. Why?
I agree. Problem is, Cantrip sounds exactly the same as scum.
I thoroughly disagree with this.
...I've been on a bit of hiatus (over a year); do you remember the last game we played that I was scum? Why do you "thoroughly disagree" with this?
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
In a game with RVS votes still sitting on others, why is it such a crime that I haven't updated mine here? I'll agree that it *seems* like I jumped the gun, and she probably assumed things and I assumed others. Let me ask you this, why do you think GJ responded instead of Gruff?
Am I mistaken in thinking that your vote on Gruffin was serious? Do you agree that Gruffin's post isn't as damning in light of her meta norm being highlighted? If yes to both, why wouldn't you unvote in 150? Same question as what I asked Terry: Do you disagree that Gruffin's assumption--given her meta background--makes her strongly likely to be town?
Also, your 139 shows that you read my 135, but that you didn't see the question I asked Gruffin, a player you *said* you had suspicion on, indicates to me that you aren't really reading the thread. Now, I know I post walls, and even *I* don't always read walls posted by others. But even when faced with a wall that I don't want to read, I still usually read the parts that a) pertain to me, and b) pertain to my main town reads (to see if scummy attacks are being made that I can help poke holes in), and c) pertain to my main scum reads (to help in the final weighing of my scum reads' guilt or innocence). You obviously read the part where I voted and attacked you, but, given that you had ALREADY posted 136 and expressed suspicion on Gruffin, why wouldn't you have read the part of my post that pertained to her?
EWP: Some of the above has been nathed by Mind's 179, but I think there's more for him to respond to. Mind, 179 sounds a lot like CFTWR + appeasing your attacker, but I'm trying to make sure I'm not just tunneling on you now, so I'd like other player's impressions of that.
No, I'm not happy with my vote being there. I don't want her lynched. She's in no danger of that. When I get to re-reading, sometime today, I'll move it where I think it belongs.
So...why didn't you say something like this in the first place?
Quote from mind »
Part of me just doesn't want to unvote now because it's been such a big thing. But if it makes you happy Shadow: Unvote.
Quote from mind »
I'm not OMGUSing, per se. But take a look from my perspective:
1) I know my alignment.
2) I have 4 Votes. Leading wagon, yay!
3) Scum would be looking for reasons to push me.
4) You push me for leaving my vote on somebody in no danger of anything. Even after I've conceded that I overreacted.
5) There are other votes that are equally guilty, those people just aren't gathering votes themselves.
What would you think? Probably that some people on your wagon are scum. I'm looking at you and Cyan. Possibly Apacado, but GJ seems to be digging into that. I'm content to see how that plays out.
I'm not pushing you because of your vote, I'm pushing you because you reacted like scum when I asked you about it. You keep saying there are other people "equally guilty" but that's just not true. Yes, there are errant RVS votes, but it was never just about your vote; it's about how you reacted when questioned about it.
Yeah cantrip, I was catching up, hit post 116 and responded. I didn't read your post before I posted 136. 20 minutes later, when I finished reading the thread, I saw the section in 135 about me, and fair enough, I didn't see the specific @Gruff section. I guess you can read into that. It's a fair point. But I think you might be projecting a little bit. I didn't actually read that part until you mentioned it.
@Cantrip: I don't think it necessarily means one way or the other since we don't actually know whether or not scum have day chat in this game. It does not say one way or another in the OP. Is it an MTGS rule to never to have day chat? Or is it just the average design, but day chat is still permitted and occasionally implemented?
I really think, her early concern with what people though of her was a scum-tell. Maybe not as strong as a tell as I've seen in other games, but still a tell.
Yeah cantrip, I was catching up, hit post 116 and responded. I didn't read your post before I posted 136. 20 minutes later, when I finished reading the thread, I saw the section in 135 about me, and fair enough, I didn't see the specific @Gruff section. I guess you can read into that. It's a fair point. But I think you might be projecting a little bit. I didn't actually read that part until you mentioned it.
It wasn't really that much of a wall, and it's early game. It just really comes off as you not reading the thread. Paired with what I see as an opportunistic attack on Gruffin, it feels like you started coasting on tunneling scum-mode and got caught.
I agree with Shadow: your reaction is bad. You talk about me projecting, but you've taken one of the most innocent elements of the game (RVS votes) and labeled them "equally [as] guilty" as your vote. Why isn't your vote "just as innocent" as theirs? Word choice can be very telling.
@Cantrip: I don't think it necessarily means one way or the other since we don't actually know whether or not scum have day chat in this game. It does not say one way or another in the OP. Is it an MTGS rule to never to have day chat? Or is it just the average design, but day chat is still permitted and occasionally implemented?
No, certainly not a rule that it can't happen, but I think it's mostly frowned upon. I also don't think Proph, specifically, is the type to put it in a game, but I can't be sure on that. I admit that I may be townclearing her erroneously based on this, but...I don't think I am. Again, being new (and new to our site), if she's scum and scum have daychat, I would think she would be less likely to mention it or bring attention to it.
Quote from SJT »
I really think, her early concern with what people though of her was a scum-tell. Maybe not as strong as a tell as I've seen in other games, but still a tell.
I can agree that this can be a tell, but I also see it as a much more conditional tell, dependent upon the player's experience (Gruffin's relatively new, but not a complete newb), recent game history (can't speak to this), site meta (she's from another site, so it may be different than here), etc. And I would say it pales in comparison to her townslip.
Eh, I'll shut up for a bit and let others chime in on this.
So mini wall time, GJ is fascinating to me this game and I'm surprised he's garnered as little discussion as he has. I think he has some of the towniest posts (this side of Cantrip), but also some of the scummiest. So here is a cross section of some of the standouts to me taken out of order.
Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.
I don't really had a rationale. Bur was on tone + votes. Tone was the main thing because tone is all that has really happened so far. The fact that rvs votes aren't unvoting, and no one else is adding ontop of it goes to my point about Bur being seen as toxic to push from the mafia team.
I love this post, I was pushing on Johnny for what I though was a contradiction in his and he doubles down on it. I'll get back to this later.
@GentlemenJohnny It isn't that I have lackluster posts, Its just in my personality to be more calm while I question others. My play usually picks up when I come up with a read. By the way, why do you dislike my last 2 posts?
I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.
Your opening made a psuedo bad impression with me, for making a post, and not reading all of the ~100 posts at the time. With at least half being RVS ***** votes, it would not have taken that much time to get over it. I feel like your tone is playing cautious right now, which while isn't inherently wolfy, does not feel appropriate. It feels like you are trying to post safely under the radar.
Why do you think Mindreaver posts feel forced and insincere?
I like this one too, but not as much. The mind wagon was going to come under pressure for forming so quickly and I like his pre-emptive pressure onto the most suspect vote on it. That said it could be a deflection as GJ is in the second worst seat on the wagon...
Not a huge fan of Mindreaver right now. Shadow gets a little more equity. Cyan still Nai, Cantrip also gets some town equity.
This post on the other had is just bleh... His votes on mind so that's not much of a revelation. Giving Shadow and Cantrip town+ for the recent posts isn't exactly a scorching take. I don't think Cyan has posted anything except a town+ for Cantrip so announcing you don't have a read on him isn't the most helpful take in the world.
Kidbit, by the way is reading super pure so far. I think I am making this call too early, but hell, Ill go with it until I find a reason not to.
So making this post after the more noticed hot take post is incredibly towny. As scum it would take away any credit he'd get for making the read that early and does nothing to remove the suspicion he'd face for making such bold early reads.
Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?
I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.
This is a post I hate. And it's the one that lead me to pressure him and got the response I liked in 157. So he's said Bur is town for his engaged/jokey tone and having 3 votes on him. Then says that he thinks all 3 on the wagon are town when asked about the obvious implication of there being scum on the wagon.
That's quite the awkward twist of logic. And I know that I said I liked him doubling down on it earlier. I like the doubling down because I can't imagine scum would possibly ever do that. What a horrible hill to pick to die on. Bur having an all town wagon tells us nothing about his alignment, because town would know nothing about his alignment. So you can either look to clear Bur by saying scum wouldn't push him for a mislynch because they know his meta and that they'll look bad for it or clear his wagon by assuming they all know Bur's meta. You can't really have it both ways... If Bur's wagon is town, they would have no idea what his alignment is outside of cases stated and made.
And then that get's us into another kettle of fish: GJ is sitting here making subtle meta based arguments to clear Bur and his wagon based on everyone having knowledge of that meta. There is a very large problem with this given that roughly a third of the game is completely new to this site and would have no clue about any of the subtle meta that GJ is using to try and clear people here...
So long story short I have no clue what to make of GJ. A couple of his posts are the scummiest things I've seen here, but there are enough posts that strike me in such a town way that I'm more inclined to think he's town on the reasoning that I don't think scum GJ is doubling down on that horrible Bur/wagon meta argument. I think that stems from a town mindset of posting from the hip as thoughts come to you. I'd appreciate another set of eyes checking my work and making sure I'm not writing off scum as too scummy to be scum, but I think it just makes a lot more sense as town not obsessing over the smaller details.
The bolded basically reads as "Don't look at me, look at anyone else!"
I think it means, "why are you cherry-picking my vote patterns?" and I was implying "do you sense an easy mislynch target?"
And now you're omgusing. Why don't you answer my original question, are you happy with your vote still being on Gruffin? I waited several posts to see if you'd unvote, and when you didn't, I asked. And all I'm getting from you is snark and shade.
No, I'm not happy with my vote being there. I don't want her lynched. She's in no danger of that. When I get to re-reading, sometime today, I'll move it where I think it belongs.
Part of me just doesn't want to unvote now because it's been such a big thing. But if it makes you happy Shadow: Unvote.
I'm not OMGUSing, per se. But take a look from my perspective:
1) I know my alignment.
2) I have 4 Votes. Leading wagon, yay!
3) Scum would be looking for reasons to push me.
4) You push me for leaving my vote on somebody in no danger of anything. Even after I've conceded that I overreacted.
5) There are other votes that are equally guilty, those people just aren't gathering votes themselves.
What would you think? Probably that some people on your wagon are scum. I'm looking at you and Cyan. Possibly Apacado, but GJ seems to be digging into that. I'm content to see how that plays out.
Self conscious.
Upset over a little pressure.
Pointing finger around the room saying looookkkk.
Unvote
Vote Mindreaver
I never wanted this, true. But somebody has to stop the Deepness. And, apparently, Terris is the only place this can be done.
On this fact, however, I don’t have to take the word of the philosophers. I can feel our goal now, sense it, though the others cannot. It... pulses, in my mind, far off in the mountains.
Gah my post from yesterday is not here
Bleh, it was full of quotes.
I'm not gonna bother doing all the quotes again.
@Hunt: re:#108: where's the backpedal? I don't see it.
What do you think of Shadow's Logic vote in #110?
I don't like Apocado's entrance at all in #112.
Not liking Terry's entrance either in #119.
It's weird that Apocado only reacts to Terry's entrance and not to anything else that happened in the game.
Terry's vote in #141 is opportunistic.
Apocado's bandwagon vote on Mind in #159 is bad.
@Mind: why did you not respond to my #99?
Cantrip declaring me town makes me nervous :/
But I like his Mindreaver vote, so giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.
@Cantrip: if you're scum, don't you dare pocket me again
@GJ (re:#137): all Cythare did was a ptap. How do you get a scumread out of that?
Also, the Cyan thing was what bothers me the most about you. I always say what I think, I didn't even think of ignoring it to use it to catch you later on.
About the @Mindreaver part in your post: you explain him about offsite mechanics and then call his vote a stretch. Does that mean you think Mind is scum casting a vote like that?
Why did you not answer my #106 until Cantrip asked for it?
@Cyan: do you have any other reads than a townread on Cantrip?
I'm not a big fan of the whole daychat discussion. Either there is daychat and then the whole thing is null, or there isn't and then Gruff is town. But we'll never know unless Gruff flips. Useless discussion. And apparently the only thing Terry is talking about.
T/S:
Town
Rhand
Gruffinchops (Asks good questions)
Lean town
Cantripmancer (Great posts, but I’m a bit wary because of our last game together)
Kitbits (Good reactions to my early pressure, inquisitive posts)
Grapefruit21 (Gut)
Shadowlancerx (Mimics my thoughts a lot, but also wary because of our last game together)
Null
AtheistGod (Has he posted?)
Huntzilla (Giving him more time. My gut actually wants to place him at lean scum, but I always scumread him and am trying to step out of that)
Cythare (only a ptap post)
Bur (Can’t remember much from him)
LogicoftheVI (His posts go both ways)
Gentleman Johnny (I was hoping to get a real read out of my push, but I have no clue)
Lean scum
Cyan (Isn’t asking questions)
Apocado (Bad entrance, not inquisitive, bad vote on mindreaver)
Scum
Mindreaver (All has been said)
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Bad entrance and too much focus on Daychat instead of players)
unvotevote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I'm also on the Mindreaver wagon in spirit and wouldn't mind an Apocado lynch either.
@Rhand What about Terry's day chat focus is scummy?
And what makes Apocado in particular Mind vote bad? There hasn't been much of a case beyond Catrips initial post and people saying his defensiveness with Shadow looks bad. So why does Apocado in particular and not Hunt, Cyan, or GJ look bad for it? You pretty much sheeped the existing argument too.
I'm seeing a bit of mud being thrown at people who haven't posted much. They need to get in here and post but for the time being that reeked of setting up some low hanging fruit.
Self conscious.
Upset over a little pressure.
Pointing finger around the room saying looookkkk.
Unvote
Vote Mindreaver
Cyan agrees with Cantrip and votes. There's nothing wrong with a /barn. That said, I do think Cyan is likely scum because he hasn't produced a single independent thought.
GJ isn't voting him?
I'm not throwing mud. I'm calling people out for bad posts and bad votes.
I'm too lazy to make a meme, but imagine there is one here that says "One does not simply.... Set up low hanging fruit"
Someone is or is not low hanging fruit. You don't create that.
I would to apologize to you all for my lack of activity. Inclement weather has caused power outages and internet interruptions the past few days. Things should hopefully start to clear up this afternoon but if problems persist I'll be asking for a replacement.
@GJ (re:#137): all Cythare did was a ptap. How do you get a scumread out of that?
I don't like it. I think there is at least one wolf in the below the mod line, and you have played long enough with me to know how much I tolerate low posters (I also realize the irony of Bur's game Cythare).
Also, the Cyan thing was what bothers me the most about you. I always say what I think, I didn't even think of ignoring it to use it to catch you later on.
I don't see a reason to really push this further, so I am going to drop it
About the @Mindreaver part in your post: you explain him about offsite mechanics and then call his vote a stretch. Does that mean you think Mind is scum casting a vote like that?
I think it's NAI. As far as I am aware, Mind has only played on mtgs, where day chat isn't very common. On other sites, day chat is the standard with a few exceptions. I think Mind legit thought (or believed he could push) the vote thinking it was a slip. I actually think it points to more village points, as I don't know if Mind would push a "slip" like that as a wolf, but it is NAI overall.
Why did you not answer my #106 until Cantrip asked for it?
I missed that question, and it wasn't until CAntrip asked about it that I reread your 106, or whatever number it was.
Grapefruit's post is spicy and I like it (Self-serving, I know).
Vote TRSJ. Completely ok with this counterwagon.
@Rhand: How do you feel about your list looking very similar to mine+reads?
I never wanted this, true. But somebody has to stop the Deepness. And, apparently, Terris is the only place this can be done.
On this fact, however, I don’t have to take the word of the philosophers. I can feel our goal now, sense it, though the others cannot. It... pulses, in my mind, far off in the mountains.
Bur I agree with, Kitbits I'm more inclined to say NAI
What else you got to add?
About kit? His response to Rhand felt over explainy, overall I don't see him as obv town.
About the game? I like you for town, but we'll see how I feel by the end of day.
GJ came out with "Bur town. Kit town", in his enigmatic way. I've seen him do that early in both alignments, and I don't think it was alignment indicative either way. However, the interaction with shadow here, caught my eye at the time. "I don't agree with KIt, because of XXX, but I like you". That last little bit, felt off to me. Especially with the qualifier "we'll see how today goes".
Also, I thought, just like GJ mentioned, that Kit's posting was much townier than Bur. Bur wasn't obviously town to me, until GJ later mentioned that he would be a great mislynch target, and that seeing that many votes on him early was a factor in his townread. Which I think is much different than...
... not you too...
*sigh* Why am I town to you too?
Also, what part of Kit's post felt over-explanatory to you, shadow?
I really liked your playful tone and posting, you seem excited for the game, which I feel like comes from town!bur more often than scum!bur.
He just went a little too much into the "no this actually what I meant" than I think was necessary. I don't think it means scum!kit, but I don't feel like it comes only from town.
What would you do if I refuted that point? (You can also try asking from Logic about Fairy Tail if you want more detail about the matter)
And why are you townreading GJ?
I guess I give you town points for correcting a bad meta read?
And I like his feel so far, its a weak soul read, I'll feel better one way or the other in a few hundred posts. I'm gonna get burned at some point, but so far I've correctly townread GJ in games we've been together that he's town, and had hesitations when he wasn't.
This is where bur pressures him for more information regarding his read, and shadow comes up with a better reason. Correcting a meta read. That's fine. But Bur also seemed to pick up on the why shadow added that "I like GJ", and asked about it. Weak Soul-read is not a sufficient answer to that question.
So those are the major differences between GJ and Shadow. I'm seeing a thoughtful GJ, and a buddying Shadow. That was why I wanted more interaction with him, so see if he'd continue that trend. To Shadow's question of "did you get what you wanted"... not really. In 134 you said that your early game frequently involves you declaring top town reads and then changing your mind quickly. Giving me a specific example to look at. I haven't had a chance to follow up with that reading, but I haven't played enough with you to know off the top of my head if that's indeed what I can expect.
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Added to that the skepticism/critical thinking regarding GJ and I, Gruffin is solidly town.
@Other Site Peeps: Is "soulread" the same as "gutread", that is, "for reasons that I can't solidly identify, but I have strong feelings"?
I don't really had a rationale. Bur was on tone + votes. Tone was the main thing because tone is all that has really happened so far. The fact that rvs votes aren't unvoting, and no one else is adding ontop of it goes to my point about Bur being seen as toxic to push from the mafia team.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.
Had a long Monday, too tired to actually focus on this game.
Misunderstanding someone and jumping on them are not mutually exclusive. Why are you implying they are? At this point it sounds like you're grasping just to argue with me.
At the time of your post, I feel like he's not super active and pushing to move the game forward. He did point out that one thing but didn't say much about it besides that he thought it was non aligned. (I've played with him in shorter phase games, but never as scum, as he's never been scum).
-after reading more of the thread, I still feel like he isn't as present as usual, but I do think his train of thought is understandable regarding the alignments he's discussed.
I stayed on GJ because that is who I was most suspicious of as of page 2. I even made a post that mentioned I thought he was susp.
Timeframe doesn't matter as much as content posted in the thread, and there just isn't that much content in the thread (as of when I made the post you quoted). I don't even feel like you have really explained why I'm town, I haven't even done anything.
Here are the games I've played. I've only played MAL games, and I've only ever been town. Pronouns doesn't matter.
Oh wow I hadn't even realized that. Both me and Gruffin are from a site where every game has day chat for scum. If there really is no day chat in this game that sounds like a town slip from Gruffin since I don't feel like she'd have faked not knowing... I honestly was wondering the same thing about why would scum coach in the main thread.
Can you expand a bit more on your GJ read as well. I've spent a lot of my time this game on GJ and I've found my opinion swinging wildly back and forth. I'm having trouble reconciling posts 50 and 101.
Anyone else is free to jump in on that question as well, I just want to hear from Cantrip first.
I'm still happy with my vote on Bur at this point. And if the deadline were in 24 hours I'd be choosing between Bur, Johnny, Mind, Shadow, Apocado, and TRSJT for the lynch.
Plus one million town points for Cantrip.
Also Vote Mindreaver
Mindreaver, you've posted several times since the discussion about Gruffin and scum chat took place, why are you still voting her?
The Deepness must be destroyed, and apparently I'm the only one who can do so. It ravages the world even now. If I don't stop it soon, there will be nothing left of this land but bones and dust.
Vote Count 1.05 (9 to lynch)
[3] Bur - Grapefruit21, AtheistGod, Huntzilla
[3] Mindreaver - Cantripmancer, Apocado, Cyan
[2] Gentleman Johnny - Kitbits, Rhand
[2] Gruffinchops - Mindreaver, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Bur
[1] Apocado - LogicoftheVI
[1] AtheistGod - Gruffinchops
Not Voting: Cythare, Gentleman Johnny, shadowlancerx
The deadline is on Friday, March 17th.
And no, I haven't read that game. Why?
I thoroughly disagree with this.
Your opening made a psuedo bad impression with me, for making a post, and not reading all of the ~100 posts at the time. With at least half being RVS ***** votes, it would not have taken that much time to get over it. I feel like your tone is playing cautious right now, which while isn't inherently wolfy, does not feel appropriate. It feels like you are trying to post safely under the radar.
Why do you think Mindreaver posts feel forced and insincere?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What is the bolded a reference to?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote Mindreaver
Part of me just doesn't want to unvote now because it's been such a big thing. But if it makes you happy Shadow: Unvote.
I'm not OMGUSing, per se. But take a look from my perspective:
1) I know my alignment.
2) I have 4 Votes. Leading wagon, yay!
3) Scum would be looking for reasons to push me.
4) You push me for leaving my vote on somebody in no danger of anything. Even after I've conceded that I overreacted.
5) There are other votes that are equally guilty, those people just aren't gathering votes themselves.
What would you think? Probably that some people on your wagon are scum. I'm looking at you and Cyan. Possibly Apacado, but GJ seems to be digging into that. I'm content to see how that plays out.
...I've been on a bit of hiatus (over a year); do you remember the last game we played that I was scum? Why do you "thoroughly disagree" with this?
Am I mistaken in thinking that your vote on Gruffin was serious? Do you agree that Gruffin's post isn't as damning in light of her meta norm being highlighted? If yes to both, why wouldn't you unvote in 150? Same question as what I asked Terry: Do you disagree that Gruffin's assumption--given her meta background--makes her strongly likely to be town?
Also, your 139 shows that you read my 135, but that you didn't see the question I asked Gruffin, a player you *said* you had suspicion on, indicates to me that you aren't really reading the thread. Now, I know I post walls, and even *I* don't always read walls posted by others. But even when faced with a wall that I don't want to read, I still usually read the parts that a) pertain to me, and b) pertain to my main town reads (to see if scummy attacks are being made that I can help poke holes in), and c) pertain to my main scum reads (to help in the final weighing of my scum reads' guilt or innocence). You obviously read the part where I voted and attacked you, but, given that you had ALREADY posted 136 and expressed suspicion on Gruffin, why wouldn't you have read the part of my post that pertained to her?
EWP: Some of the above has been nathed by Mind's 179, but I think there's more for him to respond to. Mind, 179 sounds a lot like CFTWR + appeasing your attacker, but I'm trying to make sure I'm not just tunneling on you now, so I'd like other player's impressions of that.
I really think, her early concern with what people though of her was a scum-tell. Maybe not as strong as a tell as I've seen in other games, but still a tell.
I agree with Shadow: your reaction is bad. You talk about me projecting, but you've taken one of the most innocent elements of the game (RVS votes) and labeled them "equally [as] guilty" as your vote. Why isn't your vote "just as innocent" as theirs? Word choice can be very telling.
I can agree that this can be a tell, but I also see it as a much more conditional tell, dependent upon the player's experience (Gruffin's relatively new, but not a complete newb), recent game history (can't speak to this), site meta (she's from another site, so it may be different than here), etc. And I would say it pales in comparison to her townslip.
Eh, I'll shut up for a bit and let others chime in on this.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I love this post, I was pushing on Johnny for what I though was a contradiction in his and he doubles down on it. I'll get back to this later.
I like this one too, but not as much. The mind wagon was going to come under pressure for forming so quickly and I like his pre-emptive pressure onto the most suspect vote on it. That said it could be a deflection as GJ is in the second worst seat on the wagon...
This post on the other had is just bleh... His votes on mind so that's not much of a revelation. Giving Shadow and Cantrip town+ for the recent posts isn't exactly a scorching take. I don't think Cyan has posted anything except a town+ for Cantrip so announcing you don't have a read on him isn't the most helpful take in the world.
So making this post after the more noticed hot take post is incredibly towny. As scum it would take away any credit he'd get for making the read that early and does nothing to remove the suspicion he'd face for making such bold early reads.
This is a post I hate. And it's the one that lead me to pressure him and got the response I liked in 157. So he's said Bur is town for his engaged/jokey tone and having 3 votes on him. Then says that he thinks all 3 on the wagon are town when asked about the obvious implication of there being scum on the wagon.
That's quite the awkward twist of logic. And I know that I said I liked him doubling down on it earlier. I like the doubling down because I can't imagine scum would possibly ever do that. What a horrible hill to pick to die on. Bur having an all town wagon tells us nothing about his alignment, because town would know nothing about his alignment. So you can either look to clear Bur by saying scum wouldn't push him for a mislynch because they know his meta and that they'll look bad for it or clear his wagon by assuming they all know Bur's meta. You can't really have it both ways... If Bur's wagon is town, they would have no idea what his alignment is outside of cases stated and made.
And then that get's us into another kettle of fish: GJ is sitting here making subtle meta based arguments to clear Bur and his wagon based on everyone having knowledge of that meta. There is a very large problem with this given that roughly a third of the game is completely new to this site and would have no clue about any of the subtle meta that GJ is using to try and clear people here...
So long story short I have no clue what to make of GJ. A couple of his posts are the scummiest things I've seen here, but there are enough posts that strike me in such a town way that I'm more inclined to think he's town on the reasoning that I don't think scum GJ is doubling down on that horrible Bur/wagon meta argument. I think that stems from a town mindset of posting from the hip as thoughts come to you. I'd appreciate another set of eyes checking my work and making sure I'm not writing off scum as too scummy to be scum, but I think it just makes a lot more sense as town not obsessing over the smaller details.
Self conscious.
Upset over a little pressure.
Pointing finger around the room saying looookkkk.
Unvote
Vote Mindreaver
On this fact, however, I don’t have to take the word of the philosophers. I can feel our goal now, sense it, though the others cannot. It... pulses, in my mind, far off in the mountains.
Vote Count 1.06 (9 to lynch)
[5] Mindreaver - Cantripmancer, Apocado, Cyan, shadowlancerx, Huntzilla
[2] Bur - Grapefruit21, AtheistGod
[2] Gentleman Johnny - Kitbits, Rhand
[2] Gruffinchops - Mindreaver, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
[1] TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Bur
[1] Apocado - LogicoftheVI
[1] AtheistGod - Gruffinchops
Not Voting: Cythare, Gentleman Johnny
AtheistGod has been prodded.
The deadline is on Friday, March 17th.
Bleh, it was full of quotes.
I'm not gonna bother doing all the quotes again.
@Hunt: re:#108: where's the backpedal? I don't see it.
What do you think of Shadow's Logic vote in #110?
I don't like Apocado's entrance at all in #112.
Not liking Terry's entrance either in #119.
It's weird that Apocado only reacts to Terry's entrance and not to anything else that happened in the game.
Terry's vote in #141 is opportunistic.
Apocado's bandwagon vote on Mind in #159 is bad.
@Mind: why did you not respond to my #99?
Cantrip declaring me town makes me nervous :/
But I like his Mindreaver vote, so giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.
@Cantrip: if you're scum, don't you dare pocket me again
@GJ (re:#137): all Cythare did was a ptap. How do you get a scumread out of that?
Also, the Cyan thing was what bothers me the most about you. I always say what I think, I didn't even think of ignoring it to use it to catch you later on.
About the @Mindreaver part in your post: you explain him about offsite mechanics and then call his vote a stretch. Does that mean you think Mind is scum casting a vote like that?
Why did you not answer my #106 until Cantrip asked for it?
@Cyan: do you have any other reads than a townread on Cantrip?
I'm not a big fan of the whole daychat discussion. Either there is daychat and then the whole thing is null, or there isn't and then Gruff is town. But we'll never know unless Gruff flips. Useless discussion. And apparently the only thing Terry is talking about.
T/S:
Town
Rhand
Gruffinchops (Asks good questions)
Lean town
Cantripmancer (Great posts, but I’m a bit wary because of our last game together)
Kitbits (Good reactions to my early pressure, inquisitive posts)
Grapefruit21 (Gut)
Shadowlancerx (Mimics my thoughts a lot, but also wary because of our last game together)
Null
AtheistGod (Has he posted?)
Huntzilla (Giving him more time. My gut actually wants to place him at lean scum, but I always scumread him and am trying to step out of that)
Cythare (only a ptap post)
Bur (Can’t remember much from him)
LogicoftheVI (His posts go both ways)
Gentleman Johnny (I was hoping to get a real read out of my push, but I have no clue)
Lean scum
Cyan (Isn’t asking questions)
Apocado (Bad entrance, not inquisitive, bad vote on mindreaver)
Scum
Mindreaver (All has been said)
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Bad entrance and too much focus on Daychat instead of players)
unvote vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I'm also on the Mindreaver wagon in spirit and wouldn't mind an Apocado lynch either.
And what makes Apocado in particular Mind vote bad? There hasn't been much of a case beyond Catrips initial post and people saying his defensiveness with Shadow looks bad. So why does Apocado in particular and not Hunt, Cyan, or GJ look bad for it? You pretty much sheeped the existing argument too.
I'm seeing a bit of mud being thrown at people who haven't posted much. They need to get in here and post but for the time being that reeked of setting up some low hanging fruit.
Have you seen Apocado's vote?
This is nothing. He even gives himself an out for later on.
Hunt gives a real reason (snipped out the Mind quote):
Cyan agrees with Cantrip and votes. There's nothing wrong with a /barn. That said, I do think Cyan is likely scum because he hasn't produced a single independent thought.
GJ isn't voting him?
I'm not throwing mud. I'm calling people out for bad posts and bad votes.
I'm too lazy to make a meme, but imagine there is one here that says "One does not simply.... Set up low hanging fruit"
Someone is or is not low hanging fruit. You don't create that.
I don't like it. I think there is at least one wolf in the below the mod line, and you have played long enough with me to know how much I tolerate low posters (I also realize the irony of Bur's game Cythare).
I don't see a reason to really push this further, so I am going to drop it
I think it's NAI. As far as I am aware, Mind has only played on mtgs, where day chat isn't very common. On other sites, day chat is the standard with a few exceptions. I think Mind legit thought (or believed he could push) the vote thinking it was a slip. I actually think it points to more village points, as I don't know if Mind would push a "slip" like that as a wolf, but it is NAI overall.
I missed that question, and it wasn't until CAntrip asked about it that I reread your 106, or whatever number it was.
Grapefruit's post is spicy and I like it (Self-serving, I know).
Vote TRSJ. Completely ok with this counterwagon.
@Rhand: How do you feel about your list looking very similar to mine+reads?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Cythare/Gruffin: Where are you at?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Take a look at these:
GJ came out with "Bur town. Kit town", in his enigmatic way. I've seen him do that early in both alignments, and I don't think it was alignment indicative either way. However, the interaction with shadow here, caught my eye at the time. "I don't agree with KIt, because of XXX, but I like you". That last little bit, felt off to me. Especially with the qualifier "we'll see how today goes".
Also, I thought, just like GJ mentioned, that Kit's posting was much townier than Bur. Bur wasn't obviously town to me, until GJ later mentioned that he would be a great mislynch target, and that seeing that many votes on him early was a factor in his townread. Which I think is much different than...
This is where bur pressures him for more information regarding his read, and shadow comes up with a better reason. Correcting a meta read. That's fine. But Bur also seemed to pick up on the why shadow added that "I like GJ", and asked about it. Weak Soul-read is not a sufficient answer to that question.
So those are the major differences between GJ and Shadow. I'm seeing a thoughtful GJ, and a buddying Shadow. That was why I wanted more interaction with him, so see if he'd continue that trend. To Shadow's question of "did you get what you wanted"... not really. In 134 you said that your early game frequently involves you declaring top town reads and then changing your mind quickly. Giving me a specific example to look at. I haven't had a chance to follow up with that reading, but I haven't played enough with you to know off the top of my head if that's indeed what I can expect.