Ok so I'm about halfway through. Time for work. Will finish up on tom hopefully after I get off. I'm at post 515 but since I'm pretty mcuh only looking at tom it's been going fast.
Is there a reason why you're not using the ISO feature if this is what you're doing ? I've been casually going through looking at posts that I think are more alignment indicative then opening them up to read the exact context and timing it was placed in to get reads on people. Lets me sort through a lot of the weaker/more irrelevant posts and strengthen my reads that way while still making sure to look at the context correctly. I've actually stopped playing at sites due to them having bad "ISO" features in game, that's how much I rely on them; MTG's is surprisingly decent.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not really a fan of Killjoys focus here, the questioning re; the meta change rather than actually analysing this game and posting reads based on the scum flip we've just had doesn't read like actual game sovling at all.
I'm trying to differentiate between Tom and the persona. Pay attention please.
Well aware that's what you're doing; just think it's an area to focus on that's fairly irrelevant and meaningless in comparison to A) Reading the game with the knowledge that Pozzais scum (But if that's what you're doing as per the below post that's fine, it just feels more like you're intentionally delaying that with these type of questions to Tom) and B) Commenting on others reads and analysis for instance the fact that the only read of mine that you're really commented on is about yourself makes a lot of sense as scum and your sort of avoidance of DV entirely here is very concerning.
I am reading with the knowledge that Pozz is scum. The question are to better determine Tom's motives if I can.
Imagine that tom wrote a book, with a fictional character, Voxx. I'm trying to determine what in the book is the characters thoughts, and which are author commentary. But as Tom isn't really specifying like I wanted him to, I'll have to see if just reading a bit of Voxx will do.
Re; Not looking at everyone: That's a lot of information to take in. I'd prefer to concentrate on Tom>Pozz>Iso instead of everyone together. I'm specifically trying to look at Tom in relation to Pozz (and, spoiler, Iso as I may see some connection there) since the rest is unknown information.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I do think you're town pretty much for sure though Reg based on Pozz. He's making statements like "He's not trying to figure out my alignment" which for a scumbuddy to point that out about you just seems too on the nose for a buddy to think of it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Newcomb
I don't know how many more times I'll mirror specific posts, but the syntax and formatting seems easy enough to keep up. And the overarching approach is proven successful.
I usually end up breaking my schticks eventually. The one non-flavor text post to win Titanic Ultimatum, the non-rhyming partner analysis to (eventually) lose OTG.
But... I don't foresee a situation this one has no way to handle.
Note: Won't answer me when asked what he's doing, but halfway answered when Newcomb asked earlier.
Curious.
Everyone else kind of... isn't playing yet or hasn't really reacted to things in a way that I think is meaningful.
Pozzai, in particular, seems awfully out of touch for someone with so many posts and us still being in the early stages of this game.
Not 100% sure I did that right, but the colors are pretty and those are my reads. Vote: Pozzai
I'm not sure "out of touch for this stage of the game" is as strong a reason to read someone as scum as he's making it here. Also still have a problem with tom not being sure about Iso and x=y but throwing them in orange/lean scum for no reason.
Note: two posts later, Iso follows with his blank vote on x=y.
No, that's not acceptable.
Pozzai is the top wagon, and we're less than 300 posts in.
Your choices are figure it out and elaborate, or remove the read.
Explain why Pozzai isn't:
1 - A mislynch you want no part of
2 - A teammate you can't think of a real way to defend
This is semi-true. Reg, x=y, and Pozz all had 2 votes on them. (I think Reg still had an RVS on him though).
Even with Pozz and x=y being tied here, this seems really overly aggro.
It's honestly the worst vote you could make at this juncture.
Have you considered voting for scum, instead?
What a strange reaction to post saying I didn't want to vote you.
Iso. Hey, Iso.
Why isn't my vote currently on scum?
This post just seems like a weird post altogether. I mean, it's within reason that Iso was reacting to his declaration of wanting to vote him.
At the same time, it could be considered a little panicky to react with "Don't vote me vote scum" in any scenario.
But tom said it was a strange reaction to saying tom didn't wanna vote Iso... but tom specifically said that 'tom' would vote Iso, meaning he (tom) wanted to vote him, but Voxx would not have.
The strange part is that tom is pretending he didn't just say he wanted to vote Iso.
The thing that made me move my vote is just thinking about that Pozzai "stance". If Pozzai were to be confirmed town, I would want to vote Iso for that read. I can already see the "I told you so" and him just smirking to himself in whatever Italian Restaurant he hangs out in. And if Pozzai were to be confirmed scum, Iso would be my first suspect looking for his partners.
Oh, just regarding my #504:
That is not a case that xequalsy/Iso are w/w. They could be is the only point I am trying to make. But if someone can show me how they are hard unaligned, I will promptly start townreading xequalsy because Iso is very probably scum here.
The bolded was a lie. I just went back to remind myself why I wanted to lynch him in the first place and it... still stands.
In order of preference: Iso>xequalsy>>>>>>>>Pozzai
I'm not sure how Pozz jumped so far down past x=y here. Iso I can see, tom is riding Iso hard. I guess him seeing OMGUS from x=y justifies it, but Pozz jumped down a lot in scumminess for not doing anything despite being tom's biggest scum in post 280.
DVphon seems next most likely, but is less likely scum with Nacho. Ophilljoy is probably not scum with you.
I'm unsure what the exact lynch order should be, but I'd be pretty surprised if all three scum weren't in those 5 names plus Iso. My townreads on Regfan, Vaimes, and Delphinepoof haven't gone anywhere. And I'm still not interested in you/Nacho/Iso today.
Anything else?
It's notable that Pozz was also being widely scumread.
And in regards to the whole X=Y thing, it may seem shallow, so why not dig into it, I explained what Tom, and later Newcomb did in fewer words, and honestly, a reads list that's flipped upside down is keeping your "options open?" How is that different from: Null, lean scum, scum? Bear in mind, Regfan did absolutely ZERO about solving X=Y's alignment, he spent the entire day saying "X=Y and Pozzai are scum" and "Pozzai and X=Y are very likely together", but just sat back, away from the wagon the entire day without feeling any interest in solving his alingment. Why is it Regfan doing this has not come up for you in terms of "focuses on the wrong area" @Tomsloger ?
Ummm. I don't see it as analogous. Regfan has spent a significant amount of time in thread showing his thoughts on most happenings. One thing you think he should have commented more on does not equal a general pattern of idly commenting on fluff. And incidentally, I don't have a problem with shrugging and lynching a person that others had already cased on day 1. I remember feeling like so many people had said things about xequalsy. And it was all, like, sure he seems like he could be scum but I didn't have anything to add. It was a fine lynch, especially for day 1.
I feel like the way he's talking to Pozz here isn't how you talk to your top scumread. Especially one you've pretty much had the enitre game.
Ahh so this is what a scum tom game actually looks like.
What a strange thing to say with how many times we've played together. And the fact that this is likely the one and only time I'll play like this.
I'm town. Who is scum?
I think I've also just noticed: Tom keeps saying "I'm town" in the middle of his posts. IDK if that's a Voxx thing or. So I reread tom with a sideways glance at what Pozz was doing (then I started watching Iso a bit in too) and here is what I found.
First of all, I don't think Iso is scum, independent of tom. I realized it's pretty dumb that Iso would claim Vig when he performed the mafia kill. I also don't think that tom/Iso are aligned due to how hard tom is tunneling Iso .With Iso's lurking, it's not an outside chance that Iso could be lynched. I do not believe that tom does that to buddy!Iso. It is suboptimal.
Now, tom and Pozz. tom and Pozz only interacted once on D1, then a couple times on d2 prior to his lynch. That's weird given that Pozz was near the top of Tom's scum list for pretty much the entire game. Even before he discovered that Iso existed. So, one expects that tom would put some effort into either trying to nail down his alignment or lynching him. The only time he actually wanted to lynch him was when the town was pushing for it (mostly Reg), and it would have looked bad if it happened and he wasn't on it semi-organically. Also, if you read some of their interactions, tom seems to be handling Pozz with kid gloves, like he doesn't wanna seem too aggressive to soon so he under-does it instead.
I'm fairly certain tom is scum with Pozz. Vote tomsloger
Next I want to look into Delph/Empoof since Pozz said something about only trying to figure out people's alignments d1 if he knows them, but he knew Delphi and I don't recall much in the way of that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So I reread tom with a sideways glance at what Pozz was doing (then I started watching Iso a bit in too) and here is what I found.
First of all, I don't think Iso is scum, independent of tom. I realized it's pretty dumb that Iso would claim Vig when he performed the mafia kill. I also don't think that tom/Iso are aligned due to how hard tom is tunneling Iso .With Iso's lurking, it's not an outside chance that Iso could be lynched. I do not believe that tom does that to buddy!Iso. It is suboptimal.
Now, tom and Pozz. tom and Pozz only interacted once on D1, then a couple times on d2 prior to his lynch. That's weird given that Pozz was near the top of Tom's scum list for pretty much the entire game. Even before he discovered that Iso existed. So, one expects that tom would put some effort into either trying to nail down his alignment or lynching him. The only time he actually wanted to lynch him was when the town was pushing for it (mostly Reg), and it would have looked bad if it happened and he wasn't on it semi-organically. Also, if you read some of their interactions, tom seems to be handling Pozz with kid gloves, like he doesn't wanna seem too aggressive to soon so he under-does it instead.
I'm fairly certain tom is scum with Pozz.
Yes, Iso's claim was terrible regardless of alignment. No, I'm not scum with Iso.
If it's suboptimal with Iso, why is it totally what happened with Pozzai?
This playstyle I actively avoid interacting with scumreads. I'm also not trying to find scum: I'm trying to find town and lynch everyone else. Pozzai being "out of touch" remained the BEST reason for lynching him. I am quite certain I went more in depth on that at some point, as did Regfan. Perhaps you missed that... I'm not sure where I handled Pozzai with kid gloves, but I wanted to lynch him from early on until he died.
I think this case is terrible. I'll decide later if it makes you scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ah. Is that what all that Iso interacting was for? Because you don't interact with scumreads?
Listen. I'm not perfect. The plan is not to, but sometimes I get passionate.
I'm trying my best not to talk about Iso, because there is no benefit. It's super frustrating, because he screams scum to me. I never had any kind of visceral reaction to any of Pozzai's posts, so I've asked him minimal questions and consistently noted that I wanted to lynch him. It's absolutely how I should have handled Iso as well.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sometimes scum don't want to appear overly aggressive when bussing, so they overcompensate the other way. Or also sometimes, since you don't actually want to lynch your buddy, scum wait to see what others say.
Maybe in this case it was a little of both of these. That's possible.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sometimes scum don't want to appear overly aggressive when bussing, so they overcompensate the other way. Or also sometimes, since you don't actually want to lynch your buddy, scum wait to see what others say.
Maybe in this case it was a little of both of these. That's possible.
And this maybe-softballing maybe-reticence bull***** makes me more likely "bussing scum" than "town that lynched Pozzai"... how exactly?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It's my birthday today! I probably won't be back tomorrow. I will be back Sunday; killing DV as a birthday present is of course an option that would make me feel very warm and appreciated.
1) RE; Post #1243 the way I'm reading it is (And the way I thought was fairly obviously the case) is that Toms taking Voxxs playstyle / posting style in that the posts are designed to look like his and he's posting his reads in the same style as Voxx but everything else are Toms own thoughts and reads which means the Voxxstyle alone isn't ever really alignment tell which is the problem I have with your focus there; it's just an easy area for scum to send time and make it look like they're doing something.
2) RE; Your big wall inside Post #1248 about the only point I agree with inside the quoting section is that Toms drop in confidnce on the Pozzai read the point where it was much behind X=Y & Iso doesn't look great, the rest of the points really don't make a lot of sense to me. I do very much agree with your conclusion of a) Tom-Iso not being a world and b) Iso being more likely town now. I'll comment on the interaction from Pozzais end when I get to it but I don't think your reasoning behind the vote here is that strong at all and your Tom+Empoof world is one I don't see being the case given a) Empoofs someone I'd bet the game on being town (The fact you're making this stance without commenting on the plethora of reasons I think he's town for is a huge issue) and b) Empoofs replace in and push on Tom and their following interaction that followed from it didn't read like S/S.
Iso, naked votes aren't going to cut it here; really want you to answer my questions inside Post #1236.
I just got home about an hour ago, am pretty tired. Also been dealing with a rather involved other game. Knew I'd have trouble keeping up with both while I was gone.
I know there were some questions that warranted more involved/researched answers from me so I'll probably do those tomorrow. But I'm back.
It's my birthday today! I probably won't be back tomorrow. I will be back Sunday; killing DV as a birthday present is of course an option that would make me feel very warm and appreciated.
Finished going over Vaimes. Like Vaimes initial thoughts dump in the game inside Post #71, his comment directed to Pozzai inside Post #131 points slightly against them being partners and like his vote change towards Pozzai inside Post #247. His initial rainbow list inside Post #290 having Pozzai as his strongest scum read and most of the players I'm leaning towards being scum here down the bottom of the list is or in his PoE lynch list inside Post #297 a rather big town tell. I don't think Vaimes would be brazen enough to make the "Would anyone believe if I scumclaim" comment as mafia like he did inside Post #414. Reads and comments like his Post #560, Post #586 and especially Post #589 read as genuine scumhunting; especially don't see the "Post game cred read Newcomb is coaching Ophidia" type comment coming from him as scum. I really really don't see Vaimes coming out pushing Newcomb like he did inside Post #689 as mafia especially with Newcomb actually being town here. His comment directed towards Pozzai about his claim inside Post #1107 doesn't read like partner conversation and his comment re; Pozzai inside Post #1144 reads very town. The fact that his analysis of the game D3 so far inside Post #1212 mirrors mine fairly closely is reassuring too. So very confident he's town.
Cool ngl I was starting to get worried about a Nacho/Vaimes world. This definitely sets me at ease
Ok I didn't really want to address this, because I don't think it's relevant but it has become so.
I decided to be Voxxicus before getting my role PM. We've chatted a fair amount about mafia theory. We've even worked together very well as town. And I did that research after I decided. My first couple of posts in this game were copied from those previous games with just the names and a few adjectives changed. I thought I had a decent handle on the solving, but RVS is tricky with this persona. So I went the route of trying to make it obvious to the people that should be able to figure it out. Newcomb did very quickly, and the DLP folk followed quickly behind. And then I got to do the good part.
My intention was to use the method by which he solves games as well as some of his mannerisms and super cool elimination posts. I tried one before in Disinheritance after Voxx died, and enjoyed myself. Part of the impetus for the initial decision. The purpose of those posts, which I've made several times in this game and am due for another soon, really shows the crux of the method. Figure out who is town and make sure other people get lynched.
The town circle is a very powerful thing, that chokes out scum's chance at winning. I know I need to reread, but I feel good about my towncircle. Regfan, Empoof, and below-that-due-to-dropoff-but-still-pretty-high-Vaimes. I'm excited to add Nacho to it in the (likely) event of DV flipping scum. If those reads are correct, my scumreads don't matter in the slightest as we skip off into the sunset. But I digress.
From starting off copying posts, my play this game has sort of ranged from impression to homage. There's little stuff like saying that I'm town (which has actually been one of the most notable to changes for me as I naturally like to throw wine around and remind people I could be scum), or the colors I use in those rainbow elimination posts. Those have remained pretty consistent, along with the capitalization and line break structure. That's easy peasy to fake. But the overall approach is what's most exciting about this game for me. Like, I have good town games. But I'm still better as scum. This playstyle, fake though it may be, is an improvement on me. It certainly makes me more visibly townie then I typically am. And it's track record of winning games is quite impressive. I've tried to stay true to it overall. But my real opinions still occur to me, and you can see it come out sometimes. Especially in Iso interactions. I could have just not posted them. Maybe stayed truer to my inner Voxx. But again. Passion. At this point, I'm not even sure what thoughts are mine and what actually belong with what I'm doing. So asking me how I'm playing differently when I've just been doing my best to win this game does not sit well with me. I think it's frankly ridiculous to be scumreading me right now. Like, maybe if you really twist yourself I could see someone coming to the conclusion that I - tom - am faking this all to get townread. But what I have put into this game is just... objectively townie. I say this as someone who is frequently objectively scummy as either alignment. Yes there's that baked in air of fakeness Newcomb mentioned, but I don't think that's even there anymore as my natural and assumed playstyle have sort of blended in to one thing that is The Way I'm Playing This Particular Game. You shouldn't need any of the information I'm vaguely rambling about in this post to look at it and say "oh cool. Tom is town."
@Killjoy
If you think that case against me is good, and that I am scum, feel free to continue pushing. I could defend myself some more, but reading through it is just a lot of "yes, and?"s and "well I can sort of see how you think that, but"s. If you are town you should keep in mind that the only other people that share your read (IIRC) are DV and Iso, who have not read the game and contain at least 1 scum. Because I am obviously town, and it's not even that hard to see it. If you are scum you are literally never getting me lynched over you. So... good luck. Regardless. But I highly suggest you just back off now.
We're lynching DV today. I'd have prioritized my reread over [other games] if that wasn't already a foregone conclusion in my mind. I'm not sure how much longer we want to wait, but I'm ready to confirm the scumflip that's already happened in my mind and go about finding the last scum. Or, I guess, finding out now that it's wrong and really kick ourselves in the ass to figure this ***** out.
Perhaps tomorrow I will let myself run free and make the meta case I wanted to make on Iso now that Disinheritance has ended. Perhaps I'll decide it's still -EV to do that. I don't know. Because I am town, and I do what I do.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually, I agree with this, which is why I came into toDay considering tom for scum. He seemed pretty gung-ho about the Pozzai lynch early in the game but then when the time came to lynch him, he just sort of...balked. Especially when I came out with my reasoning for voting Pozzai. (Granted, I didn't actually consider that the scum would have killed Grapefruit, because I thought he was the farthest thing from obvtown. But YMMV, I guess, and the results justified the push.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm inclined to believe Tom and d_v are not w/w. "We're lynching dv today" is a fairly strong commitment to make on a wolf buddy given the other most likely Lynch and his other option, me, is town. If dv was wolf is expect him to push me over him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Vaimes
tomsloger
Iso
DV
Empoof
Killjoy
Regfan
Nachomamma8
I'm town. Dead townies are town.
Regfan caught Pozzai, in addition to being incredibly townie/solvey/transparent/what have you. I would be absolutely floored if he was scum here. He's done a better job of showing his progression than... basically anyone in any game ever. It's all there, and it's beautiful. I can't even describe how strongly I feel about this read without gushing about my own play history. This is me and Whiskeyjack in Tammy's Westeros game, me and Empoof in the New Year's Party game on MU, me and Voxx in Goldeneye. Townbros forever.
Delphine I was reading town for moderately silly reasons, but I believed them then and have seen nothing from Poofter to change my mind. I even liked when he used some stuff from our private conversations to tinfoil me, and I liked the way he let me convince him otherwise. He's been spotty at times but IIRC he's never played in phases this long before, so that's quite expected. And I've generally liked the way he reacts to things.
tomsloger Grapefruit21
xequalsy
Newcomb
Regfan
Empoof
Vaimes
Iso
DV
Killjoy
Nachomamma8
Vaimes was really townie at the beginning of this game, but has dropped off pretty significantly. I know from other games (as well as snapchat) that he's been busy IRL, so I don't want to put too much stock into it. But it's still a Thing. He should show back up and town it up to make me feel better, but no interest in lynching anyway.
Nacho is town if DV is scum. Iso is town if he's actually a vigilante. There's a few / a bunch of reasons not to trust them (respectively), but those things are less important than the first two sentences of this paragraph.
tomsloger Grapefruit21
xequalsy
Newcomb
Regfan
Empoof
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
Iso
DV
Killjoy
My feeling about Ophidia are a mess. And Killjoy is certainly trying, even if it took him forever and he's focusing on the dumbest things. He could just be scum thinking maybe my reputation makes me a possible mislynch that he really needs. Maybe he is town that actually thinks I'm scum for some ridiculous reason. This is the slot I most need to reread and figure out where he fits, but firmly in the "would lynch" camp.
DV is a passionate player. Among the most I know. And he absolutely cannot be assed to try an solve here. That absolutely vicious meta read that Nacho dropped earlier was fantastic. And his entire approach screams scum that didn't think he could escape the PoE. We should definitely lynch him today, and I highly doubt he will flip town.
Pozzai is dead scum.
tomsloger Grapefruit21
xequalsy
Newcomb
Regfan
Empoof
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
Iso
Killjoy
DV Pozzai
Man, my reads have been essentially the same for awhile. Possibly means I need to reread very carefully. But I'm hoping it just means this game has been solved-ish for quite some time.
I'm inclined to believe Tom and d_v are not w/w. "We're lynching dv today" is a fairly strong commitment to make on a wolf buddy given the other most likely Lynch and his other option, me, is town. If dv was wolf is expect him to push me over him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm inclined to believe Tom and d_v are not w/w. "We're lynching dv today" is a fairly strong commitment to make on a wolf buddy given the other most likely Lynch and his other option, me, is town. If dv was wolf is expect him to push me over him.
Maybe the pronoun game is too strong? Basically, from your perspective, there are two viable lynches today as of right now: me and DV. You declaring that "we're lynching DV" is really commital, which you likely wouldn't do in a world where you had a choice between a town or your buddy. You are unlikely to pick your buddy over the townie to lynch in that situation.
Oh wait, are you saying these two situations are the same? No. Iso isn't declaring "We're lynching KJ today" which would only mean that Iso is not w/w with me. Not that Iso is scum.
Specifically, I'm not saying you're scum for doing this, but rather that in the world where you are, DV is not also scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Maybe the pronoun game is too strong? Basically, from your perspective, there are two viable lynches today as of right now: me and DV. You declaring that "we're lynching DV" is really commital, which you likely wouldn't do in a world where you had a choice between a town or your buddy. You are unlikely to pick your buddy over the townie to lynch in that situation.
Oh wait, are you saying these two situations are the same? No. Iso isn't declaring "We're lynching KJ today" which would only mean that Iso is not w/w with me. Not that Iso is scum.
Specifically, I'm not saying you're scum for doing this, but rather that in the world where you are, DV is not also scum.
From the POV of you being town, what's the difference between me going for you over the obvious DV lynch and Iso openly stating that he's moved you ahead of DV/me?
Like, if you aren't scum you are an absolutely necessary mislynch for them to have any chance whatsoever. I know Iso claimed vig or whatever, but there's only been one kill per night and the kill he claimed makes well more sense as a scum kill than a vig shot, even based on Iso's own thought process from late day 1.
But ok if you're only looking for ways for me to be scum and not him. That's your prerogative.
So tom said a thing where he doesn't interact with his scumreads, and is trying to town hunt. That's a valid thing to do, if I believed he were doing it.
While this is the first post of the game, and is RVS... it represents the distinct opposite of what tom says he was doing. He asks someone if they are scum, which would constitute scumhunting.
But maybe he didn't decide to start townhunting at that point. Benefit of the doubt.
I'd also really like you to figure out the reasons for your Pozzai read.
I'm sure you would! I'll probably re-read the game eventually after some flips and re-establish to myself why I'm townreading Pozzai (or start scumreading him, depending). I'll be glad to share if and when that happens.
No, that's not acceptable.
Pozzai is the top wagon, and we're less than 300 posts in.
Your choices are figure it out and elaborate, or remove the read.
Explain why Pozzai isn't:
1 - A mislynch you want no part of
2 - A teammate you can't think of a real way to defend
He even aggressively persues Iso based on his scumread of Pozzai here, making it seem like he REALLY thinks Pozz is scum.
Oh, just regarding my #504:
That is not a case that xequalsy/Iso are w/w. They could be is the only point I am trying to make. But if someone can show me how they are hard unaligned, I will promptly start townreading xequalsy because Iso is very probably scum here.
The bolded was a lie. I just went back to remind myself why I wanted to lynch him in the first place and it... still stands.
In order of preference: Iso>xequalsy>>>>>>>>Pozzai
Here's where Iso and x=y passed Pozz in scumminess. It's still unclear what x=y did to merit being scummier than Pozz, tom never said how he arrived here. But it's worth noting that this doesn't mean that he thought Pozz is less scummy. Pozz is still as scummy as he was before, just others are moreso.
@Nacho
You asked me two questions about Iso, but I think I need to backburner that for my own sanity. Suffice to say that if xequalsy flips town that is where I will be tomorrow, and if he is scum... idk.
Well, that's what I was gonna say... I actually kind of like xequalsy's readslist. I mean, I disagree with a bit of it, notably Regfan/Delphine, but that's ok. I like where it seems to be coming from though. It really comes off like a townie that thinks he's going to be lynched trying to leave a legacy, not scum trying to save himself or obfuscate. And they aren't bad reads, even the ones I disagree with. Though his proposed team of Iso/Delphine/Nacho with Nacho as his second highest townread is a bit... horrific.
I kind of like Pozzai's little flurry too. His interaction with Regfan reminds me of myself and fonti in that game that never happened. Mrgle.
If he's scum, what would your guess on team be right now? X=Y/ISO/Nacho ?
If he flipped scum it doesn't clear Iso, but it definitely pushes back any discussion on Iso for a day or two. Which, to be fair, may have been the point. Without having reread super recently, I'd want to look at Typhon, Ophidia, and perhaps Nacho as well.
Here is the first major interaction between Pozz and tom. It's just discussion mostly.
The mindmeld comment makes me think he is adding slight townpoints to Pozz, but that's unclear. Also it wouldn't be enough at all to make him still not scum in tom's eyes.
Pozzai doesn't actually seem to have read the thread at most points in the game. The things he chooses to comment on are so off from what I think is important. He made some alright posts towards end of day, but that was pretty easy situation.
Typhon pinged me in minor ways several times, but nothing I would hang a real read on.
@DV You're starting with a scumread and no case. If you're town, change my mind. Our last experience together has me hopeful you can.
Iso I've talked about plenty. And now that we've got flips, we know Iso named 4 names (both our dead town, vaimes, and regfan) and then parked on the first one that people mentioned scumreading.
tomsloger Grapefruit21
xequalsy
Vaimes
DelphiBlue
Regfan
Nachomamma8
Newcomb
Killjoy
Pozzai
DV
Iso
vote: Iso
Ooh, I just noticed this: If you look up in my post, you'll see that his earlier rainbow has Pozz is red, with the reasoning of him being "out of touch at the early stages". This post says "he hasn't appeared to have read the game", which is basically the same thing, and it's now later in the game. So, why is he yellow all of a sudden?
If Regfan is lynched and flip scum, I think is dislike Tom less, but tomorrow is definitely harder to mesh together.
Now this is a bit strange. Feel like Regfan and I have steadily cozied up to one another and would fully expect some pressure if I was wrong about him. Why would him being scum make you dislike me less?
If Regfan is lynched and flip scum, I think is dislike Tom less, but tomorrow is definitely harder to mesh together.
Now this is a bit strange. Feel like Regfan and I have steadily cozied up to one another and would fully expect some pressure if I was wrong about him. Why would him being scum make you dislike me less?
Haha, that was actually an accidental double negative, I was talking about teams, and you are correct, his flipping scum would make you 'more' likely scum in my mind. Move along, nothing to see here....
Delphine is occassionally actively non-opportunistic. Like, #641. People wanted her to affirm their Pozzai notions. It would have been so easy to (shade town Pozzai / defend buddy Pozzai / whatever). There is no agenda to Delphine's posts.
Purely out of selfish reasons, do you have an example of this that does not involve me?
This is also odd, because you being town would almost lock in this read for me.
[quote from="tomsloger »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/769770-jurassic-park-adventure-2-mafia-90-day-2-fallen?comment=702"]Delphine is occassionally actively non-opportunistic. Like, #641. People wanted her to affirm their Pozzai notions. It would have been so easy to (shade town Pozzai / defend buddy Pozzai / whatever). There is no agenda to Delphine's posts.
Purely out of selfish reasons, do you have an example of this that does not involve me?
This is also odd, because you being town would almost lock in this read for me.
See that is where we disagree, scum!Delphine pushing on me day1, for what I'd consider poor reasons without me having a strong townread on her, could very well backfire on her on my townflip. I think scum!Delphine would not neccessarily run that risk day1 where she after having read a person she knows well wrong and pushed him day1, she has to live for two days without being lynched in response.
I think it is an unnecessary risk for scum!Delphine to take, especially if she felt like the X=Y lynch was highly likely to go through.
I don't think Delphine is scum for a few reasons, I was merely hoping for you to have an agenda point not revolving around me to help strengthen or soften my read.
Ok, how about her read on Ophidiaslot in #311/344?
It's a scumread, but she's not jumping on me or nacho's questions, or Newcomb's read. She's just doing her own thing.
Quickly skimmed it, will look deeper into it when I get home from work/tomorrow as those kind of nuances is not really my thing in terms of spotting them. First impressions from only skimming her posts not what prompted them or interacted with them I'm not 100% sold, I do like the "think it would give a better read if Ophidia engaged some of the interactions instead of being reactionary" part at the end. It's kind of "c'mon give me something to work with" in a manner I don't think a partner would take to another partner in, at least not in thread.
Will look into notes when I get back in terms of where in the day it was located, ie X=Y wagon status and scumchat status.
Here, Pozz does things that makes tom go "what?" But the problem is, since he's scumreading Pozz, I'd expect a little... fervor. Like the language is too passive. When a scumread does something weird, you go after them as if the confusing thing will help you nail them to the wall, because it could be a mistake that they made.
This tone feels closer to something you'd give someone you thought was town and they were saying things you didn't understand.
From a scum standpoint, if Pozz was his buddy, then it could be the case that tom was trying not to be too aggressive early on and commit to that before he saw what the town wanted to do. Commiting to an aggressive scumread of a buddy is hard to walk back, and is basically consigning yourself to killing him. Obviously, scum don't wanna do that if they can avoid it.
It's like I said here:
Sometimes scum don't want to appear overly aggressive when bussing, so they overcompensate the other way. Or also sometimes, since you don't actually want to lynch your buddy, scum wait to see what others say.
Maybe in this case it was a little of both of these. That's possible.
That's why he's handling him with kid gloves: because he doesn't actually wanna lynch him.
I've tried to make this read as succinct as possible and focus on what I think are the stronger scum-tells but clealry that's not my forte. We're lynching Pozzai here today, very very confident he's scum here and really do want to hear others thoughts re; this post.
1) His opening and entrace questioning into the game for instance his Post #126, Post #130 and Post #136 don't look like him actually hunting for alignment at all but moreso him throwing out questions to seem contributive. The huge issue here and throughout the game is the areas he's focusing on; it's never on any real important or alignment indicative sections. His focus on Toms change in playstyle for instance inside Post #129 with the accusation that the playstyle change is one done purposely as scum to give out more town reads doesn't read like a natural thought process and ignores large sections of conversation about it that happened earlier on. Outside of his read and stance on myself which I'll go into in 2) there's very little reads/analysis/stance/anything from him and while he may like to take in data before giving those reads out the fact that the angles he was poking and questioning didn't entail anything about the main topics is a huge red flag. His first actual reads/analysis post in the game in Post #553 is super shallow and the comment re; X=Y makes plenty of sense coming from scum that know X=Y is about to flip town and his reads list inside Post #664 looks like leaving multiple mslynch options open and the fact that a lot of the reads presented there (Particularly Iso/Nacho) are reads that have come mostly out of nowhere is a fairly big scum tell.
2) His reaction towards my scum read and vote on him initally inside of Post #236 makes plenty of sense coming from scum in that it allows him a) A direction to push inside the game and b) A way to respond towards his scum read on me without having to really focus on the reasoning behind it it. His reaction towards the conversation that Newcomb/Myself had about him inside Post #269 ignores what actually transpired in that Newcomb stated he'd go into the read in more detail later and I stated that I was waiting on that; the entire way that Pozzai attempts to paint it is massively scum motivated. His response to Newcomb about myself in Post #470 makes very little sense; it's pretty clear that I don't think VM translates to FM whatsoever and the "Expecting him to play 180" is smething that never transpired; his entire comment re; Newcomb/Iso ignores what my reads are on both players and ignores what my intentions behind asking Iso for his reasoning behind his Pozzai read is. His response towards how he attempts to solve/play the game inside Post #551 particularly re; 1) doesn't match his actions throughout the game at all. While I do like some of his analysis of Typhon/Ophidia inside Post #748 and Post #749 the way he goes about dropping of his read on me through "I don't see Regfan being scum with them in this world" doesn't feel natural at all especially in comparison to the amount of focus he put on his read on me throughout D1; it makes plenty of sense as scum knowing that I'm not a lynch target here and focusing on someone they can either distance with or mslynch.
3) Him returning from V/LA inside Post #435 and attacking me for not asking Delphi for her read on him (Which is something that actually happened) is a fairly huge scum tell in that A) It's making it clear he hasn't read my posts or the thread properly and B) It's a question directed solely in hope/attempt to make me look bad; When I responded inside Post #437 explaining the conversation had already occurred and running through my entire thought process about it inside Post #441 he changed the angle to "Why did you ask Newcomb before Delphine" inside Post #445 which is a case of him moving the goal posts and not him actually assessing and analyzing my answer whatsoever; particularly since asking someone 1st or 2nd about their read on a player is not an alignment indicative tell and had he actually been reading my posts it'd be obvious that I'm interacting and relying on Newcombs thought process more than most in the room.
Pretty much if you want a TLDR (But please read) it's that his focuses and questions this game don't look like him attempting to discern anyone's alignment; he's constantly focusing on fairly insignificant sections of the game and has barely actually conversed about important topics for instance he gave very little read on X=Y and the wagon on him until very very late in the day and even then it was minimalist. His read and reasoning on me throughout D1 doesn't read as genuine and moreso looks like him just using it as a main topic of his conversation, the fact that the read has fallen off entirely D2 again points towards it not being a legitimate read. His interaction with me when returning from V/LA doesn't come across as town at all, it's not him analysing my answers but just trying to constantly move the goal posts till hef finds something he can push on.
In my experience, responding to cases against you in kind like Pozzai's #899 is more likely to come from scum. The mindset there is basically "well Reg has been scumreading posting like me so maybe posting like him will work"
It's not an impression of him, but it's just... Wordier. Wallier. Whatever. Than your typical Pozzai post. It's very "playing to the audience." Which isn't inherently scummy, but the timing of it is.
So, tom finally votes Pozz following Reg's case, and Empoof's 'being on team Regfan', which I interpretted as him being willing to agree with the case because he thinks Reg is town. So now people realize Pozz is scum, so tom in on the wagon.He also gives some light reasoning of his own, though it's not very strong.
Pozzai case was made by Regfan, though I'm pretty sure the point about what Pozzai chooses to comment on being largely irrelevant was stolen from me.
tomsloger Grapefruit21
xequalsy
Regfan
Vaimes
Empoof
Iso
Nachomamma8
Newcomb
Killjoy
DV
Pozzai
Another thing I noticed: This is light Silver Rage, as well as "reasons stated". While I've not done research into whether these are particularly legitimate scumtells, if others know better, do tell.
tomsloger
Posts I liked: 296: I like how tom calls Iso out here. 348: I find his opinion here of Iso accurate. 504: I like his push on Iso here.
Posts I didn't like: 27: This just seems like a fluff question disguised as serious. I can't see Nacho'only capping one post (especially without intent to continue) as particularly noteworthy. 56: ...I can't actually remember what I didn't like about this. I feel like it had to do with his going hard on Typh then backing off by saying no one is solving? 280: Specifically dislike near the bottom where he defaults "people who aren't playing yet (one of which is x=y) to just above his big scum read (Pozz). Also kinda starting to feel like that pozz vote was bandwagony.
Questions I have: 412: Explain those pairs to me.
Overall:
Most of my liking of him has been his position on Iso, while my dislike is more substancial.
Well, for your question: That was two pairs that had interacted strangely and werren't my townreads. I already talked about the xequalsy/Typhon connection in #469, but it seems to have been incorrect. I do currently believe the Typhon slot is likely scum, which matches pretty well with my thinking at the time. The Pozzai/Iso connection stems from #282, and I talked about it multiple times. #296, #348, #363... This question feels like busywork.
Actually, this whole read does not match with what you've said. The things you don't like are "more substantial"... but one is pretending to be serious on the 27th post of the game, which is pretty lol. One you don't remember why. And the last seems to just be against the playstyle I've chosen. Actually, the second was me imitating a specific Voxxicus post from a past game with just a few words and the names changed as a form of RVS. So two thirds are just the playstyle I've chosen.
Please go further on this when you have time. Because I'm fairly certain I'm hard unaligned with both people below me on your list and the placement feels unnatural.
I know this won't mean much since he's talking about me here... but this is the type of language I expect from someone looking for scum in a post. There's a fervor behind it. It's not "uh, these are all basically my playstyle. What's up here?"
And in regards to the whole X=Y thing, it may seem shallow, so why not dig into it, I explained what Tom, and later Newcomb did in fewer words, and honestly, a reads list that's flipped upside down is keeping your "options open?" How is that different from: Null, lean scum, scum? Bear in mind, Regfan did absolutely ZERO about solving X=Y's alignment, he spent the entire day saying "X=Y and Pozzai are scum" and "Pozzai and X=Y are very likely together", but just sat back, away from the wagon the entire day without feeling any interest in solving his alingment. Why is it Regfan doing this has not come up for you in terms of "focuses on the wrong area" @Tomsloger ?
Ummm. I don't see it as analogous. Regfan has spent a significant amount of time in thread showing his thoughts on most happenings. One thing you think he should have commented more on does not equal a general pattern of idly commenting on fluff. And incidentally, I don't have a problem with shrugging and lynching a person that others had already cased on day 1. I remember feeling like so many people had said things about xequalsy. And it was all, like, sure he seems like he could be scum but I didn't have anything to add. It was a fine lynch, especially for day 1.
Why is it different than me not commenting on a guy early barely out of RvS stage though? And how come if you read my post, that entire paragraph lay forgotten?
Do you think Regfan has done anything to find my partners at all? Except a very weak "he's not with Iso because of that one comment, but could definitely be with Ophidia" part early? He egged people on about X=Y because he could be my partner, but never tried to resolve his alignment, he's done the exact same today, albeit forced to take a greater stake in it.
So whenI flip town who do you lynch tomorrow?
And I never stated he was a 'bad lynch' he was in my second tier because he would be fairly informative for the exact same reason.
Its a single example of a thing that has been habitual for you. And I've already said why I don't have a problem with the example anyway.
If you'd like to spend what little time you have left asking Regfan who your partners might be, be my guest. I'm happy to figure that out with him after you flip scum though.
If you were to flip town, I'd soon embark the hard part of this playstyle and reread after every flip. Well I'll do that either way, but more thoroughly if the flip was unexpected. As of right now, the next most likely is DV. But again, refer to 977. And however many other times I've done the same sort of post. I'm not really scumhunting, I'm townhunting and lynching everyone else. If you flip town, I don't think it would even knock Regfan too far down my list.
Again with the kid gloves.
He thinks he's scum. He's voting him. Reg made a great case, which he /barned. But still this is the tone he's taking.
Name a situation he has tried to find scum outside me? Just one? He's followed the consensus stream of thoughts from town the majority of the game, not done much to rock the boat.
The majority of his case on me I've pointed out the errors in and NOT A SINGLE PERSON has commented on it.
Oh yeah also, hai I'm the Plow Mechanic, town protective role.
Everyone has been okay with this lynch all day, no one even made an attempt to react to why Regfan's case is absolutely garbage and appearently people are not willing to theorise world's including town!Pozzai which is absolutely disgusting.
Regfan has done more solving than anyone else in this game. If he's wrong about you, I'll take that into account. But the case is not garbage even if incorrect.
What are the mechanics of your role? Who did you protect last night?
Passive language etc.
So,basically, his scumread of Pozz was inconsistant, and his handling of Pozz when he should have been scumreading him was lacking. That's just not how I see town handling their scumreads.
And my earlier point re: interactions: Pozz barely interacted with tom, and vice versa. Scum sometimes forget to interact, or avoid it when they can to avoid making each other look bad/getting people to realize they are scum together. The scum team in Planeswalkers vs. Phyrexia (starring me and others) completely forgot to interact with each other, as we were focused on interacting with town.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Is there a reason why you're not using the ISO feature if this is what you're doing ? I've been casually going through looking at posts that I think are more alignment indicative then opening them up to read the exact context and timing it was placed in to get reads on people. Lets me sort through a lot of the weaker/more irrelevant posts and strengthen my reads that way while still making sure to look at the context correctly. I've actually stopped playing at sites due to them having bad "ISO" features in game, that's how much I rely on them; MTG's is surprisingly decent.
Well aware that's what you're doing; just think it's an area to focus on that's fairly irrelevant and meaningless in comparison to A) Reading the game with the knowledge that Pozzais scum (But if that's what you're doing as per the below post that's fine, it just feels more like you're intentionally delaying that with these type of questions to Tom) and B) Commenting on others reads and analysis for instance the fact that the only read of mine that you're really commented on is about yourself makes a lot of sense as scum and your sort of avoidance of DV entirely here is very concerning.
There a particular reason you're not just looking at everyone here then? Got a link to a game where you've used this catch up method before?
Imagine that tom wrote a book, with a fictional character, Voxx. I'm trying to determine what in the book is the characters thoughts, and which are author commentary. But as Tom isn't really specifying like I wanted him to, I'll have to see if just reading a bit of Voxx will do.
Re; Not looking at everyone: That's a lot of information to take in. I'd prefer to concentrate on Tom>Pozz>Iso instead of everyone together. I'm specifically trying to look at Tom in relation to Pozz (and, spoiler, Iso as I may see some connection there) since the rest is unknown information.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tracking the progression of this read here.
I like this question to reg.
Note: Won't answer me when asked what he's doing, but halfway answered when Newcomb asked earlier.
Curious.
I'm not sure "out of touch for this stage of the game" is as strong a reason to read someone as scum as he's making it here. Also still have a problem with tom not being sure about Iso and x=y but throwing them in orange/lean scum for no reason.
Note: two posts later, Iso follows with his blank vote on x=y.
This is semi-true. Reg, x=y, and Pozz all had 2 votes on them. (I think Reg still had an RVS on him though).
Even with Pozz and x=y being tied here, this seems really overly aggro.
This post just seems like a weird post altogether. I mean, it's within reason that Iso was reacting to his declaration of wanting to vote him.
At the same time, it could be considered a little panicky to react with "Don't vote me vote scum" in any scenario.
But tom said it was a strange reaction to saying tom didn't wanna vote Iso... but tom specifically said that 'tom' would vote Iso, meaning he (tom) wanted to vote him, but Voxx would not have.
The strange part is that tom is pretending he didn't just say he wanted to vote Iso.
Making a note of this.
I'm not sure how Pozz jumped so far down past x=y here. Iso I can see, tom is riding Iso hard. I guess him seeing OMGUS from x=y justifies it, but Pozz jumped down a lot in scumminess for not doing anything despite being tom's biggest scum in post 280.
It's notable that Pozz was also being widely scumread.
I feel like the way he's talking to Pozz here isn't how you talk to your top scumread. Especially one you've pretty much had the enitre game.
Note: This is where I am right now, except Pozz not regfan.
I think I've also just noticed: Tom keeps saying "I'm town" in the middle of his posts. IDK if that's a Voxx thing or.
So I reread tom with a sideways glance at what Pozz was doing (then I started watching Iso a bit in too) and here is what I found.
First of all, I don't think Iso is scum, independent of tom. I realized it's pretty dumb that Iso would claim Vig when he performed the mafia kill. I also don't think that tom/Iso are aligned due to how hard tom is tunneling Iso .With Iso's lurking, it's not an outside chance that Iso could be lynched. I do not believe that tom does that to buddy!Iso. It is suboptimal.
Now, tom and Pozz. tom and Pozz only interacted once on D1, then a couple times on d2 prior to his lynch. That's weird given that Pozz was near the top of Tom's scum list for pretty much the entire game. Even before he discovered that Iso existed. So, one expects that tom would put some effort into either trying to nail down his alignment or lynching him. The only time he actually wanted to lynch him was when the town was pushing for it (mostly Reg), and it would have looked bad if it happened and he wasn't on it semi-organically. Also, if you read some of their interactions, tom seems to be handling Pozz with kid gloves, like he doesn't wanna seem too aggressive to soon so he under-does it instead.
I'm fairly certain tom is scum with Pozz. Vote tomsloger
Next I want to look into Delph/Empoof since Pozz said something about only trying to figure out people's alignments d1 if he knows them, but he knew Delphi and I don't recall much in the way of that.
Care to defend?
Sure. Why not?
Yes, Iso's claim was terrible regardless of alignment. No, I'm not scum with Iso.
If it's suboptimal with Iso, why is it totally what happened with Pozzai?
This playstyleI actively avoid interacting with scumreads. I'm also not trying to find scum: I'm trying to find town and lynch everyone else. Pozzai being "out of touch" remained the BEST reason for lynching him. I am quite certain I went more in depth on that at some point, as did Regfan. Perhaps you missed that... I'm not sure where I handled Pozzai with kid gloves, but I wanted to lynch him from early on until he died.I think this case is terrible. I'll decide later if it makes you scum.
Listen. I'm not perfect. The plan is not to, but sometimes I get passionate.
I'm trying my best not to talk about Iso, because there is no benefit. It's super frustrating, because he screams scum to me. I never had any kind of visceral reaction to any of Pozzai's posts, so I've asked him minimal questions and consistently noted that I wanted to lynch him. It's absolutely how I should have handled Iso as well.
It felt apprehensive.
Like, I don't even agree that I was. But what is your point?
Maybe in this case it was a little of both of these. That's possible.
And this maybe-softballing maybe-reticence bull***** makes me more likely "bussing scum" than "town that lynched Pozzai"... how exactly?
1) RE; Post #1243 the way I'm reading it is (And the way I thought was fairly obviously the case) is that Toms taking Voxxs playstyle / posting style in that the posts are designed to look like his and he's posting his reads in the same style as Voxx but everything else are Toms own thoughts and reads which means the Voxxstyle alone isn't ever really alignment tell which is the problem I have with your focus there; it's just an easy area for scum to send time and make it look like they're doing something.
2) RE; Your big wall inside Post #1248 about the only point I agree with inside the quoting section is that Toms drop in confidnce on the Pozzai read the point where it was much behind X=Y & Iso doesn't look great, the rest of the points really don't make a lot of sense to me. I do very much agree with your conclusion of a) Tom-Iso not being a world and b) Iso being more likely town now. I'll comment on the interaction from Pozzais end when I get to it but I don't think your reasoning behind the vote here is that strong at all and your Tom+Empoof world is one I don't see being the case given a) Empoofs someone I'd bet the game on being town (The fact you're making this stance without commenting on the plethora of reasons I think he's town for is a huge issue) and b) Empoofs replace in and push on Tom and their following interaction that followed from it didn't read like S/S.
Iso, naked votes aren't going to cut it here; really want you to answer my questions inside Post #1236.
Your birthday is eerily close to tom's, wow.
I just got home about an hour ago, am pretty tired. Also been dealing with a rather involved other game. Knew I'd have trouble keeping up with both while I was gone.
I know there were some questions that warranted more involved/researched answers from me so I'll probably do those tomorrow. But I'm back.
Fear me
so that's cool
Cool ngl I was starting to get worried about a Nacho/Vaimes world. This definitely sets me at ease
I decided to be Voxxicus before getting my role PM. We've chatted a fair amount about mafia theory. We've even worked together very well as town. And I did that research after I decided. My first couple of posts in this game were copied from those previous games with just the names and a few adjectives changed. I thought I had a decent handle on the solving, but RVS is tricky with this persona. So I went the route of trying to make it obvious to the people that should be able to figure it out. Newcomb did very quickly, and the DLP folk followed quickly behind. And then I got to do the good part.
My intention was to use the method by which he solves games as well as some of his mannerisms and super cool elimination posts. I tried one before in Disinheritance after Voxx died, and enjoyed myself. Part of the impetus for the initial decision. The purpose of those posts, which I've made several times in this game and am due for another soon, really shows the crux of the method. Figure out who is town and make sure other people get lynched.
The town circle is a very powerful thing, that chokes out scum's chance at winning. I know I need to reread, but I feel good about my towncircle. Regfan, Empoof, and below-that-due-to-dropoff-but-still-pretty-high-Vaimes. I'm excited to add Nacho to it in the (likely) event of DV flipping scum. If those reads are correct, my scumreads don't matter in the slightest as we skip off into the sunset. But I digress.
From starting off copying posts, my play this game has sort of ranged from impression to homage. There's little stuff like saying that I'm town (which has actually been one of the most notable to changes for me as I naturally like to throw wine around and remind people I could be scum), or the colors I use in those rainbow elimination posts. Those have remained pretty consistent, along with the capitalization and line break structure. That's easy peasy to fake. But the overall approach is what's most exciting about this game for me. Like, I have good town games. But I'm still better as scum. This playstyle, fake though it may be, is an improvement on me. It certainly makes me more visibly townie then I typically am. And it's track record of winning games is quite impressive. I've tried to stay true to it overall. But my real opinions still occur to me, and you can see it come out sometimes. Especially in Iso interactions. I could have just not posted them. Maybe stayed truer to my inner Voxx. But again. Passion. At this point, I'm not even sure what thoughts are mine and what actually belong with what I'm doing. So asking me how I'm playing differently when I've just been doing my best to win this game does not sit well with me. I think it's frankly ridiculous to be scumreading me right now. Like, maybe if you really twist yourself I could see someone coming to the conclusion that I - tom - am faking this all to get townread. But what I have put into this game is just... objectively townie. I say this as someone who is frequently objectively scummy as either alignment. Yes there's that baked in air of fakeness Newcomb mentioned, but I don't think that's even there anymore as my natural and assumed playstyle have sort of blended in to one thing that is The Way I'm Playing This Particular Game. You shouldn't need any of the information I'm vaguely rambling about in this post to look at it and say "oh cool. Tom is town."
@Killjoy
If you think that case against me is good, and that I am scum, feel free to continue pushing. I could defend myself some more, but reading through it is just a lot of "yes, and?"s and "well I can sort of see how you think that, but"s. If you are town you should keep in mind that the only other people that share your read (IIRC) are DV and Iso, who have not read the game and contain at least 1 scum. Because I am obviously town, and it's not even that hard to see it. If you are scum you are literally never getting me lynched over you. So... good luck. Regardless. But I highly suggest you just back off now.
We're lynching DV today. I'd have prioritized my reread over [other games] if that wasn't already a foregone conclusion in my mind. I'm not sure how much longer we want to wait, but I'm ready to confirm the scumflip that's already happened in my mind and go about finding the last scum. Or, I guess, finding out now that it's wrong and really kick ourselves in the ass to figure this ***** out.
Perhaps tomorrow I will let myself run free and make the meta case I wanted to make on Iso now that Disinheritance has ended. Perhaps I'll decide it's still -EV to do that. I don't know. Because I am town, and I do what I do.
Vote DV
@Reg: I'm making that stance solely on Pozz's actions/words. He could very well be town, but I wanna see what comes of that.
Nah, you tipped the scales in favor of me voting you over tom or D_V. Thanks for helping me make up my mind!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually, I agree with this, which is why I came into toDay considering tom for scum. He seemed pretty gung-ho about the Pozzai lynch early in the game but then when the time came to lynch him, he just sort of...balked. Especially when I came out with my reasoning for voting Pozzai. (Granted, I didn't actually consider that the scum would have killed Grapefruit, because I thought he was the farthest thing from obvtown. But YMMV, I guess, and the results justified the push.)
-
@Regfan: Don't worry, you'll get your turn
-
@Nacho: Happy birthday, friend!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
tomsloger
Iso
DV
Empoof
Killjoy
Regfan
Nachomamma8
I'm town. Dead townies are town.
Regfan caught Pozzai, in addition to being incredibly townie/solvey/transparent/what have you. I would be absolutely floored if he was scum here. He's done a better job of showing his progression than... basically anyone in any game ever. It's all there, and it's beautiful. I can't even describe how strongly I feel about this read without gushing about my own play history. This is me and Whiskeyjack in Tammy's Westeros game, me and Empoof in the New Year's Party game on MU, me and Voxx in Goldeneye. Townbros forever.
Delphine I was reading town for moderately silly reasons, but I believed them then and have seen nothing from Poofter to change my mind. I even liked when he used some stuff from our private conversations to tinfoil me, and I liked the way he let me convince him otherwise. He's been spotty at times but IIRC he's never played in phases this long before, so that's quite expected. And I've generally liked the way he reacts to things.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21xequalsy
Newcomb
Regfan
Empoof
Vaimes
Iso
DV
Killjoy
Nachomamma8
Vaimes was really townie at the beginning of this game, but has dropped off pretty significantly. I know from other games (as well as snapchat) that he's been busy IRL, so I don't want to put too much stock into it. But it's still a Thing. He should show back up and town it up to make me feel better, but no interest in lynching anyway.
Nacho is town if DV is scum. Iso is town if he's actually a vigilante. There's a few / a bunch of reasons not to trust them (respectively), but those things are less important than the first two sentences of this paragraph.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21xequalsy
Newcomb
Regfan
Empoof
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
Iso
DV
Killjoy
My feeling about Ophidia are a mess. And Killjoy is certainly trying, even if it took him forever and he's focusing on the dumbest things. He could just be scum thinking maybe my reputation makes me a possible mislynch that he really needs. Maybe he is town that actually thinks I'm scum for some ridiculous reason. This is the slot I most need to reread and figure out where he fits, but firmly in the "would lynch" camp.
DV is a passionate player. Among the most I know. And he absolutely cannot be assed to try an solve here. That absolutely vicious meta read that Nacho dropped earlier was fantastic. And his entire approach screams scum that didn't think he could escape the PoE. We should definitely lynch him today, and I highly doubt he will flip town.
Pozzai is dead scum.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21xequalsy
Newcomb
Regfan
Empoof
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
Iso
Killjoy
DV
PozzaiIs this a scumread of Iso?
It feel like it should be a scumread of Iso
I'm working on forming NY argument more clearly but I'm eating enough btw. Working on it
Maybe the pronoun game is too strong? Basically, from your perspective, there are two viable lynches today as of right now: me and DV. You declaring that "we're lynching DV" is really commital, which you likely wouldn't do in a world where you had a choice between a town or your buddy. You are unlikely to pick your buddy over the townie to lynch in that situation.
Oh wait, are you saying these two situations are the same? No. Iso isn't declaring "We're lynching KJ today" which would only mean that Iso is not w/w with me. Not that Iso is scum.
Specifically, I'm not saying you're scum for doing this, but rather that in the world where you are, DV is not also scum.
We're lynching DV. I don't really know what else there is to talk about right now.
I could tell a joke if that would make tom and Regfan feel better.
tom, what do/did you want for your birthday? Besides DV flipping scum.
Once I've gotten through reading Nacho & Tom I'll probably be willing to give Nacho his birthday present too.
I need a nice "Go" set and would like some new socks because holes.
DV scumflip will be fine though.
From the POV of you being town, what's the difference between me going for you over the obvious DV lynch and Iso openly stating that he's moved you ahead of DV/me?
Like, if you aren't scum you are an absolutely necessary mislynch for them to have any chance whatsoever. I know Iso claimed vig or whatever, but there's only been one kill per night and the kill he claimed makes well more sense as a scum kill than a vig shot, even based on Iso's own thought process from late day 1.
But ok if you're only looking for ways for me to be scum and not him. That's your prerogative.
Lets start on his first post of the game: While this is the first post of the game, and is RVS... it represents the distinct opposite of what tom says he was doing. He asks someone if they are scum, which would constitute scumhunting.
But maybe he didn't decide to start townhunting at that point. Benefit of the doubt.
Here's his thoughts on Pozzai, detailing that he is his top scumspect.
He even aggressively persues Iso based on his scumread of Pozzai here, making it seem like he REALLY thinks Pozz is scum.
Here's where Iso and x=y passed Pozz in scumminess. It's still unclear what x=y did to merit being scummier than Pozz, tom never said how he arrived here. But it's worth noting that this doesn't mean that he thought Pozz is less scummy. Pozz is still as scummy as he was before, just others are moreso.
Here, Pozz does things that makes tom go "what?" But the problem is, since he's scumreading Pozz, I'd expect a little... fervor. Like the language is too passive. When a scumread does something weird, you go after them as if the confusing thing will help you nail them to the wall, because it could be a mistake that they made.
This tone feels closer to something you'd give someone you thought was town and they were saying things you didn't understand.
From a scum standpoint, if Pozz was his buddy, then it could be the case that tom was trying not to be too aggressive early on and commit to that before he saw what the town wanted to do. Commiting to an aggressive scumread of a buddy is hard to walk back, and is basically consigning yourself to killing him. Obviously, scum don't wanna do that if they can avoid it.
It's like I said here: That's why he's handling him with kid gloves: because he doesn't actually wanna lynch him.
So, tom finally votes Pozz following Reg's case, and Empoof's 'being on team Regfan', which I interpretted as him being willing to agree with the case because he thinks Reg is town. So now people realize Pozz is scum, so tom in on the wagon.He also gives some light reasoning of his own, though it's not very strong.
Another thing I noticed: This is light Silver Rage, as well as "reasons stated". While I've not done research into whether these are particularly legitimate scumtells, if others know better, do tell.
I know this won't mean much since he's talking about me here... but this is the type of language I expect from someone looking for scum in a post. There's a fervor behind it. It's not "uh, these are all basically my playstyle. What's up here?"
Again with the kid gloves.
He thinks he's scum. He's voting him. Reg made a great case, which he /barned. But still this is the tone he's taking.
Passive language etc.
So,basically, his scumread of Pozz was inconsistant, and his handling of Pozz when he should have been scumreading him was lacking. That's just not how I see town handling their scumreads.
And my earlier point re: interactions: Pozz barely interacted with tom, and vice versa. Scum sometimes forget to interact, or avoid it when they can to avoid making each other look bad/getting people to realize they are scum together. The scum team in Planeswalkers vs. Phyrexia (starring me and others) completely forgot to interact with each other, as we were focused on interacting with town.