Newcomb dying over Regfan is slightly disconcerting, but I thought he did act a bit like a power role around Pozzai's claim so it may be meaningless. Need to look at Nacho again, but with the talk of a dichotomy between him and Newcomb it doesn't seem like a kill he would make.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Newcomb dying over Regfan is slightly disconcerting, but I thought he did act a bit like a power role around Pozzai's claim so it may be meaningless. Need to look at Nacho again, but with the talk of a dichotomy between him and Newcomb it doesn't seem like a kill he would make.
Newcomb dying over Regfan is slightly disconcerting, but I thought he did act a bit like a power role around Pozzai's claim so it may be meaningless. Need to look at Nacho again, but with the talk of a dichotomy between him and Newcomb it doesn't seem like a kill he would make.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I did some interaction reading throughout the night, leaning pretty heavily towards lynching DV today too but there's still a bit more rereading and analysis I want to get done. I have from Wednesday night onwards free to devote to actually going over things properly here, really think this game should be mostly solveable based on the scum flip and peoples hesitancy in lynching Pozzai both D1 and sections of D2 while still agreeing with the read.
Was hoping to see two kills during the night so I wouldn't have to worry about sorting Iso at all. I want to hear from Iso on a) The reasoning behind the Grapes 'shot', b) Him attempting to remember & explain his reasoning behind his Pozzai town read because the constant shrugging that off has some scum motivation especially with Pozzai flipping roleblocker and c) Explanations behind all three recent scum reads of his (Killjoy/Tom/DV). That said still think there's little gain in lynching Iso before a mass-claim and don't think today is the time to actually mass-claim here.
I don't have an issue with Toms Post #1191 at all and find the paranoia type comment re; me living to be more likely to come from town if anything. Happy birthday btw.
Oh boy the threads back up I have thoughts and things, but POE literally dropped 2.6 and I think I've slept 5 hours this weekend. I'll umm post some real content I haven't read much of after I got the ban either. But I did start a total reread and made some notes. Then path came out.
Will say that its disheartening to earn scum points for simply disappearing.
Going to dump my analysis of the DV/Typhon slot, I'll post mine on other slots on Wednesday night.
The reasoning behind Typhons particular push on X=Y inside Post #209 is something I didn't have a problem with at the time and agreed with several sections of it but looking back at it now the over focus there instead of on Pozzai at a time where my reads were "Scum (S->W):Pozzai, Xequals" inside Post #205 has a lot of scum motivation behind it in that it fits scum attempting to redirect the focus towards a mslynch rather than a partner. His hammer on X=Y inside Post #679 is fairly problematic in that he's claiming Iso was one of his scum reads D1 and was the biggest pusher of the X=Y wagon. His reasoning behind the hammer inside Post #711 of it "providing information" doesn't mesh with his complete lack of analysis from it and the read on Nacho there and in follow posts feels very shallow and more of a "Comment on something someone said recently!" type post. The read and vote on Vaimes inside Post #721 and their following interactions doesn't feel like a genuine scum reading; feels more like scum attempting to find something to focus on and talk about, ignoring the plethora of information and content from Vaimes throughout the game and focusing on a singular comment from him is fairly hard to see coming from town here. His read on Newcomb inside Post #886 is very vague and continued postponement of actually getting to his analysis is a rather solid scum tell. The strongest scum tell inside this post is his stance on Pozzai "That being said I guess Pozzai Is probabally scum just based on how much I've already whittled down the list." the scum read via PoE doesn't fit his prior stances of scum reads on Vaimes/Iso/Nacho and a null read on Tom, it makes a *****load of sense coming from a partner though.
Actually want to post my Killjoy/Ophidia thoughts too since that's my most conflicted read by a large margin and would like others to chime in on it.
Still like Ophidias response towards Newcomb asking him to analyse Grapefruit inside Post #154 and find it something unlikely to come from newer scum. Him promising to get around to reading Me/Pozzai inside Post #215 and again inside Post #228 to actually not following through on it at all and then responding stating that he's fine voting any of X=Y, Pozzai and myself inside Post #398 which at the time was the 3 leading wagons is very concerning, it's made worse by his reasoning behind the reads inside Post #494 making very little sense. Not entirely sure what to make of his Post #573 directed to Pozzai and would like others to weigh in on that.
I liked Killjoys reaction towards me stating I had a scum read on his slot tonally inside Post #744 and while I dislike a lot of the placement of his reads and reasoning behind them inside Post #745 I found the phrasing behind the Nacho reads as well as his analaysis of the X=Y votes to come across as genuineish. That said didn't like much of his more updated reads inside Post #1029 at all, most of them felt super surface level with no real actual thought process delved into the reads and lots of the linked quotes and questions felt very throwaway.
@Nacho/Empoof - Both of you seem relatively confident this slots town, can you run through that read for me a bit deeper, specifically want your thoughts on a) Ophidias read progression & handling of Pozzai D1 and b) Killjoys reads and analysis inside his second reads post in D2 since those are some of my larger problems with the slot.
Actually want to post my Killjoy/Ophidia thoughts too since that's my most conflicted read by a large margin and would like others to chime in on it.
Still like Ophidias response towards Newcomb asking him to analyse Grapefruit inside Post #154 and find it something unlikely to come from newer scum. Him promising to get around to reading Me/Pozzai inside Post #215 and again inside Post #228 to actually not following through on it at all and then responding stating that he's fine voting any of X=Y, Pozzai and myself inside Post #398 which at the time was the 3 leading wagons is very concerning, it's made worse by his reasoning behind the reads inside Post #494 making very little sense. Not entirely sure what to make of his Post #573 directed to Pozzai and would like others to weigh in on that.
I liked Killjoys reaction towards me stating I had a scum read on his slot tonally inside Post #744 and while I dislike a lot of the placement of his reads and reasoning behind them inside Post #745 I found the phrasing behind the Nacho reads as well as his analaysis of the X=Y votes to come across as genuineish. That said didn't like much of his more updated reads inside Post #1029 at all, most of them felt super surface level with no real actual thought process delved into the reads and lots of the linked quotes and questions felt very throwaway.
@Nacho/Empoof - Both of you seem relatively confident this slots town, can you run through that read for me a bit deeper, specifically want your thoughts on a) Ophidias read progression & handling of Pozzai D1 and b) Killjoys reads and analysis inside his second reads post in D2 since those are some of my larger problems with the slot.
Can you give weights to each of these points for me? This is fencesitty and you could theoretically paint these as thinking I'm town or scum at a later date. I don't like that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Your slot has been the one I've had/have the most trouble actually trying to get a definitive read on for most of the game. My post is more attempting to get my thoughts on it down in an attempt to get Nacho/Empoof & others to elaborate on their reads there.
Dont really attribute 'points' to each part; if you're after what I consider the stronger ones I thought I made that clear inside that post? a) I find Ophidias reaction towards Newcomb Grapes question and a few posts tonally there very town. b) I found Ophidias handling of Pozzai/Myself throughout mid-late D1 as well as his actual reads to be very scum motivated. c) I thought the surface level reads on everyone in your second catch up post was a big concern; can understand having difficulty putting the sheer amount of content down into reads but the fact that pretty much zero of the reads felt like they had a deeper thought process to them is something that makes more sense from scum.
Overall I think you're more likely scum than town, more confident on DV ATM but pretty much want Empoof/Nacho to elaborate on their end. You said you were going to start going into players one at a time, would really like you to get around to that particularly with the scum flip.
Ok this reread is not getting finished today either. So just some quick thoughts for now.
I don't see anything changing my townread of Regfan at this point. If him and Pozzai was w/w, it fooled me. This is not quite an "I lose to scumRegfan" read, but it's very close. Empoof (and Delphine) I entered a townreading tunnel at some point and I need to look at with fresh eyes. I expect to still think town, but yeah.
Vaimes and Nacho are townie when here, but they've both left less a mark on the game than their postcounts and who they are would make me expect. Vaimes I know has been busier since the beginning of the game, and Nacho's engagement in longer phases always wavers. Nacho has a chance to be scum just because he has been pulling the strings but not committing to anything really. Vaimes would have to have a pretty specific set of partners and with Pozzai flipped scum and Newcomb flipped town, I'm not really seeing it. But I'd like stronger stances from both.
I'd like to lynch DV as of right now. He has a decent chance of being scum and clearing Nacho (which is obviously huge). Him flipping town would muddle things a bit, but its definitely a flip we need soon either way.
Not sure what to do with Killjoy and Iso. Well, I know what I should do with Iso. It's ignore him like he deserves based on the way he's played this game and worry about him when it's time to claim. But that isn't particularly satisfying.
Had enough spare time to go through the Empoof/Delphine slot today at work. The rest will have to wait until tomorrow night.
Delphines response towards Pozzais question inside Post #199 points against her being scum. Still like her analysis of Newcomb early on inside Post #220 and the analysis and progression on Pozzai inside Post #281 feels fairly natural. I really really don't see Delphine making Post #576 towards a partner, the photo of notes type thing for 'distancing' purposes is something I don't see her doing at all and makes her super likely be town from that alone. Still think her unedited and unprompted thoughts in fear a hammer had been laid inside Post #633 is a fairly solid town tell and similarly think lines re; her confidence on X=Y inside Post #669 and Post #671 come across as very genuine. Empoofs tone inside his first few replace in posts all came across as fairly town and I liked his prodding for information on Pozzai partners inside Post #854 and makes sense with his reasoning behind it in Post #858. Drop off of activity after that isn't great and certainly has scum motivation behind it especially if Nacho is town here and it was indeed a TvT fight that was clearly brewing. I really liked that his stance and thoughts on Pozzais claim inside Post #1142 mirrored mine and find his response to Pozzai in Post #1151 to be unlikely to come from a partner. Also like majority of his reads and his explanation behind his DV scum read inside Post #1178. Feel pretty good about this slot being town now.
Don't agree with Tom in that it "clears" Nacho entirely but it'd certainly make it significantly less likely he's scum and has little to do with your specific posts (Albeit your 'push' on him does decrease it a bit more) but more to do with a) Nachos push on your slot on both Typhon & yourself making little sense if he was already having a partner suspected in Pozzai and b) The interaction between Typhon/Nacho in the early game reading fairly natural and less likely to come from partners. Really dislike that's your only comment on recent posts though especially when you're continuously promising analysis and reads.
I'm town. Regfan has put more effort into solving the game than anyone, and he spent all game pushing on the scum Roleblocker; he's town.
I really don't like Iso this game. His D1 push, his read on Pozzai, his claim, his target, his refusal to elaborate on his claim, and him doing mostly nothing on D2 all make him look awful. That said, he'll get sorted out during a massclaim, since we only have one other town PR flipped.
If we ignore Iso, then there is very, very likely to be one mafia between tom and Typhrous' slot. D_V is free to argue why he should be townread more than tom.
Some random notes I took during the Night:
- at least one of [tom, Nacho, Ophidia] is scum. My order of likelihood would be Ophidia > Nacho > tom, because...
- ...I think tom had good interactions with Pozzai (specifically, the "are you scum wtih Regfan? ...this feels like a 'yes'"), and Pozzai's flip-out-y reaction to it
- [notes I had about Newcomb being potential scum with Pozzai; no longer relevant]
- Pozzai has throwaway interactions with [Ophidia, Typhon]
- Nacho pushing for the Roleblocker to be lynched and defending the newbscum [Goon/BP?] doesn't make sense, so the team is never Nacho/Ophidia/Pozzai
I know lynching through DV/Killjoy is pretty universal-ish at this point and feels too easy, but unless Iso is doing some weirdo scum gambit or Nacho/tom are playing a damn good game, I'm pretty set with my DV vote.
Your slot has been the one I've had/have the most trouble actually trying to get a definitive read on for most of the game. My post is more attempting to get my thoughts on it down in an attempt to get Nacho/Empoof & others to elaborate on their reads there.
Dont really attribute 'points' to each part; if you're after what I consider the stronger ones I thought I made that clear inside that post? a) I find Ophidias reaction towards Newcomb Grapes question and a few posts tonally there very town. b) I found Ophidias handling of Pozzai/Myself throughout mid-late D1 as well as his actual reads to be very scum motivated. c) I thought the surface level reads on everyone in your second catch up post was a big concern; can understand having difficulty putting the sheer amount of content down into reads but the fact that pretty much zero of the reads felt like they had a deeper thought process to them is something that makes more sense from scum.
Overall I think you're more likely scum than town, more confident on DV ATM but pretty much want Empoof/Nacho to elaborate on their end. You said you were going to start going into players one at a time, would really like you to get around to that particularly with the scum flip.
It's mostly overall tone of the slot. Little things more than big things. Like when Killjoy had his moment yesterday of asking "why are we talking about PoE", it felt like he had a bit of fear of me being scum. Which is showing a townie mindset. I can go more thoroughly on the slot when I'm back but I'd put killjoy as a town lean over a scum lean atm.
The way Nacho went at DV's very presence so soon after he replaced in is not something I'd expect to see from him. There's bussing and then there's never giving him a chance. That meta read was absolutely brutal (and is still my primary reason for wanting to lynch DV).
The only way I'm buying it is if they decided to sacrifice DV to let Pozzai live to roleblock another night, and it just doesn't seem worth it with our tracker already dead. The slot was in the PoE but DV is pretty good at making people not want to lynch him. I'd have to check the timing of things to see if DV's 1 week break could have severely messed with those plans, and I do remember Nacho wanting to wait for a CC. But the whole thing is a bit of a stretch.
Your slot has been the one I've had/have the most trouble actually trying to get a definitive read on for most of the game. My post is more attempting to get my thoughts on it down in an attempt to get Nacho/Empoof & others to elaborate on their reads there.
Dont really attribute 'points' to each part; if you're after what I consider the stronger ones I thought I made that clear inside that post? a) I find Ophidias reaction towards Newcomb Grapes question and a few posts tonally there very town. b) I found Ophidias handling of Pozzai/Myself throughout mid-late D1 as well as his actual reads to be very scum motivated. c) I thought the surface level reads on everyone in your second catch up post was a big concern; can understand having difficulty putting the sheer amount of content down into reads but the fact that pretty much zero of the reads felt like they had a deeper thought process to them is something that makes more sense from scum.
Overall I think you're more likely scum than town, more confident on DV ATM but pretty much want Empoof/Nacho to elaborate on their end. You said you were going to start going into players one at a time, would really like you to get around to that particularly with the scum flip.
Aww you're gonna hold me to that? Fiiiiiiine. I'll do it.I'll get started on it soonish.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Most of Vaimes 'random notes' inside Post #1212 is exactly what I was/am at in a few different things; I noticed a few Tom-Pozzai interactions that pointed against him being scum, will go over it again properly when I get through his ISO & interactions analysis. I also thought some of Pozzais interaction from his end with Typhon & Ophidia make sense as partners there too. About the only thing I disagree with is the ruling out of the Ophidia/Nacho scum team since I've had trouble with Nachos read there throughout the game and while some of his explanations on it are decent it's a read I can see him giving to a partner as scum.
@Empoof - Would appreciate if you could go more into it and comment on b) and c) when you do.
@Killjoy - Yep, holding you to it. Would also like your tinfoil "Scum team inside X/Y/Z" theory elaborated on because the throw out there doesn't really come across as genuine at all.
Have tomorrow night free to go through the remaining players [Iso, Nacho, Vaimes & Tom] and will probably end up voting DV afterwards unless something sticks out inside the interaction analysis.
A TOMBSTONE spontaneously RISES out of the GROUND.
On it is INSCRIBED a MESSAGE:
"This is LIMESTONE TOMBSTONE. All CRAFTSRagnorSHIP is of the HIGHEST QUALITY. The TOMBSTONE menaces with SPIKES of RED SPINEL.
On the TOMBSTONE is a DEPICTION of a GALLOWS. In the GALLOWS hangs a CORPSE. This ARTWORK relates to the LYNCHING of SOMEONE by 7PM CST on MARCH 21ST, 2017
On the TOMBSTONE is a DEPICTION of PREMATURE NIGHTFALL. This ARTWORK relates to the CONSEQUENCES of SOMEONE not being LYNCHED by the DEADLINE."
The TOMBSTONE recedes back into the GROUND.
Man, that GUY is INCORPOREAL, you THINK to YOURSELF. How does he even DO this SORT of THING?
Hi! The game I'm hosting just ended and most of my moving stuff has been downgraded to simple unpacking at this point, so I can funnel more time into this game soon. This week is unlikely (unless maybe Friday) because I'm working 12 hours of OT this week, but the first thing I'm gonna do is actually read what I missed. I don't think there's actually a need for me to justify my Pozzai townread from early game as I became in favor of lynching him in the eleventh hour and he flipped scum and realistically speaking if I were scum I could just fake that ***** super easily. I was wrong on Day 1 and that's all there is to it. With regards to Grapefruit, I had a lot of thoughts on him on Day 1 that I didn't share because I didn't want to broadcast the fact that I was planning on murdering him on Night 1. For what it's worth, he seemed more obvscum than obvtown to me, to those of you criticizing my shot.
I've been checked out of this game for OoG reasons but I'll try to give a good effort as soon as the opportunity for me to do so presents itself.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Was hoping to come home to actual analysis and thoughts from others.
I'll be casually reading through Vaimes/Tom throughout the next few hours, want to reaffirm my town reads there but if anyone pops in happy to actually converse about reads.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Finished going over Vaimes. Like Vaimes initial thoughts dump in the game inside Post #71, his comment directed to Pozzai inside Post #131 points slightly against them being partners and like his vote change towards Pozzai inside Post #247. His initial rainbow list inside Post #290 having Pozzai as his strongest scum read and most of the players I'm leaning towards being scum here down the bottom of the list is or in his PoE lynch list inside Post #297 a rather big town tell. I don't think Vaimes would be brazen enough to make the "Would anyone believe if I scumclaim" comment as mafia like he did inside Post #414. Reads and comments like his Post #560, Post #586 and especially Post #589 read as genuine scumhunting; especially don't see the "Post game cred read Newcomb is coaching Ophidia" type comment coming from him as scum. I really really don't see Vaimes coming out pushing Newcomb like he did inside Post #689 as mafia especially with Newcomb actually being town here. His comment directed towards Pozzai about his claim inside Post #1107 doesn't read like partner conversation and his comment re; Pozzai inside Post #1144 reads very town. The fact that his analysis of the game D3 so far inside Post #1212 mirrors mine fairly closely is reassuring too. So very confident he's town.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Killjoy
If you would like to talk about how true my imitation is, it can wait for postgame. Voxxicus I take this game way too seriously to talk about it now.
reread not today either. something something in-laws
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ok so I'm about halfway through. Time for work. Will finish up on tom hopefully after I get off. I'm at post 515 but since I'm pretty mcuh only looking at tom it's been going fast.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
What games of his did you read to prepare for this?
All of them.
But actually WWE, ZDS' normal, and a reread of the games we've been in together (Goldeneye, SG1, 2016 Ivitational), as well as some conversations we've had about mafia theory on discord and a couple private QTs from DLP games. I spent a couple days doing research on and off after I decided to do this pregame.
But again- my reads are my reads. This is busy work.
Finished going through Iso again, just Tom & Nacho I need to reread and then look at more interactions from Pozzais directions before I throw down a vote but here's where I'm at with him;;
I still find Isos "Scum team guess" involving 4 players inside Post #171 to be something less likely to come from scum especially combined with his "Wait we're in a basic" reaction in Post #172 posted within a minute, the only problematic part of the post is that two of the names on the list are flipped town, I'm town and I'm pretty sure Vaimes is town; it's not implausible for someone to have a really bad game but the fact that it could easily be scum setting themselves up to PowerWolf isn't great. Him shrugging me off when I asked him about Pozzai inside Post #282 is concerning too as is when he does the same thing inside Post #476; his stance there makes plenty of sense in attempting to save a partner (Particularly one that's a PR). His read stated and elaborated on Grapefruit inside Post #335 fits with the claimed shot and the huge elaboration into his thought process & reasoning behind why he's playing in the manner he is inside Post #511 still makes plenty of sense and reads very genuine as does his paranoia type read on Delphi pocketing inside Post #648. The vig claim inside Post #704 points fairly heavily towards him being town in that A) There's vigs inside ~70% of games and there's only 1 flipped PR here so far and B) He'd be aware of the huge likelihood of a vig existing and thus know that doing so is a fairly low-reward, high-risk play there, the shot also makes a lot more sense going through his posts on D1, several times he touched on his Grapes scum read but never fully went into it which fits his recent explanation inside Post #1223. So yeah, after going through that about the biggest issue I have with him is his prior stance on Pozzai, outside of that I think it's more likely he's town here than scum but really do want him to A) Start actually contributing and B) Elaborate a bit more on why he defended Pozzai to the level he did early on (And no "I changed my read after his claim and got it right then!" is not good enough), I need you to go back and let me know exactly what and why you ruled him out for.
Not really a fan of Killjoys focus here, the questioning re; the meta change rather than actually analysing this game and posting reads based on the scum flip we've just had doesn't read like actual game sovling at all.
Also Nacho hi, you've not posted here in 3 days; you wanted my thoughts on Killjoy elaborated on so we can talk about that read yesterday, I've posted my read on that slot (And a few others) and I've still not heard anything from you. Really would like to hear your thoughts on Non-DV (I very much agree with your read there and very probably vote there when I'm done) players right now.
Not really a fan of Killjoys focus here, the questioning re; the meta change rather than actually analysing this game and posting reads based on the scum flip we've just had doesn't read like actual game sovling at all.
I'm trying to differentiate between Tom and the persona. Pay attention please.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Newcomb dying over Regfan is slightly disconcerting, but I thought he did act a bit like a power role around Pozzai's claim so it may be meaningless. Need to look at Nacho again, but with the talk of a dichotomy between him and Newcomb it doesn't seem like a kill he would make.
@Iso have you read the game yet?
it's not Tom's birthdayI get home tonight from work.I will say I don't like tom's "Newcomb over Regfan" comment.
I opted not to specify.
Happy birthday and nope!
What's it to you? I'll claim when it's necessary.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
otay~
Happy birthday Tom!
I'll worry about rereading if DV manages to do something even vaguely town.
Otherwise, death.
Will probably have more tomorrow after work.
Not like he doesn't have things to talk about though
If you'd like, we can just powerlynch DV; nothing's quite as effective of a pick-me-up as blitzing the ***** out of scum.
I did some interaction reading throughout the night, leaning pretty heavily towards lynching DV today too but there's still a bit more rereading and analysis I want to get done. I have from Wednesday night onwards free to devote to actually going over things properly here, really think this game should be mostly solveable based on the scum flip and peoples hesitancy in lynching Pozzai both D1 and sections of D2 while still agreeing with the read.
Was hoping to see two kills during the night so I wouldn't have to worry about sorting Iso at all. I want to hear from Iso on a) The reasoning behind the Grapes 'shot', b) Him attempting to remember & explain his reasoning behind his Pozzai town read because the constant shrugging that off has some scum motivation especially with Pozzai flipping roleblocker and c) Explanations behind all three recent scum reads of his (Killjoy/Tom/DV). That said still think there's little gain in lynching Iso before a mass-claim and don't think today is the time to actually mass-claim here.
I don't have an issue with Toms Post #1191 at all and find the paranoia type comment re; me living to be more likely to come from town if anything. Happy birthday btw.
Will say that its disheartening to earn scum points for simply disappearing.
The reasoning behind Typhons particular push on X=Y inside Post #209 is something I didn't have a problem with at the time and agreed with several sections of it but looking back at it now the over focus there instead of on Pozzai at a time where my reads were "Scum (S->W):Pozzai, Xequals" inside Post #205 has a lot of scum motivation behind it in that it fits scum attempting to redirect the focus towards a mslynch rather than a partner. His hammer on X=Y inside Post #679 is fairly problematic in that he's claiming Iso was one of his scum reads D1 and was the biggest pusher of the X=Y wagon. His reasoning behind the hammer inside Post #711 of it "providing information" doesn't mesh with his complete lack of analysis from it and the read on Nacho there and in follow posts feels very shallow and more of a "Comment on something someone said recently!" type post. The read and vote on Vaimes inside Post #721 and their following interactions doesn't feel like a genuine scum reading; feels more like scum attempting to find something to focus on and talk about, ignoring the plethora of information and content from Vaimes throughout the game and focusing on a singular comment from him is fairly hard to see coming from town here. His read on Newcomb inside Post #886 is very vague and continued postponement of actually getting to his analysis is a rather solid scum tell. The strongest scum tell inside this post is his stance on Pozzai "That being said I guess Pozzai Is probabally scum just based on how much I've already whittled down the list." the scum read via PoE doesn't fit his prior stances of scum reads on Vaimes/Iso/Nacho and a null read on Tom, it makes a *****load of sense coming from a partner though.
Still like Ophidias response towards Newcomb asking him to analyse Grapefruit inside Post #154 and find it something unlikely to come from newer scum. Him promising to get around to reading Me/Pozzai inside Post #215 and again inside Post #228 to actually not following through on it at all and then responding stating that he's fine voting any of X=Y, Pozzai and myself inside Post #398 which at the time was the 3 leading wagons is very concerning, it's made worse by his reasoning behind the reads inside Post #494 making very little sense. Not entirely sure what to make of his Post #573 directed to Pozzai and would like others to weigh in on that.
I liked Killjoys reaction towards me stating I had a scum read on his slot tonally inside Post #744 and while I dislike a lot of the placement of his reads and reasoning behind them inside Post #745 I found the phrasing behind the Nacho reads as well as his analaysis of the X=Y votes to come across as genuineish. That said didn't like much of his more updated reads inside Post #1029 at all, most of them felt super surface level with no real actual thought process delved into the reads and lots of the linked quotes and questions felt very throwaway.
@Nacho/Empoof - Both of you seem relatively confident this slots town, can you run through that read for me a bit deeper, specifically want your thoughts on a) Ophidias read progression & handling of Pozzai D1 and b) Killjoys reads and analysis inside his second reads post in D2 since those are some of my larger problems with the slot.
Dont really attribute 'points' to each part; if you're after what I consider the stronger ones I thought I made that clear inside that post? a) I find Ophidias reaction towards Newcomb Grapes question and a few posts tonally there very town. b) I found Ophidias handling of Pozzai/Myself throughout mid-late D1 as well as his actual reads to be very scum motivated. c) I thought the surface level reads on everyone in your second catch up post was a big concern; can understand having difficulty putting the sheer amount of content down into reads but the fact that pretty much zero of the reads felt like they had a deeper thought process to them is something that makes more sense from scum.
Overall I think you're more likely scum than town, more confident on DV ATM but pretty much want Empoof/Nacho to elaborate on their end. You said you were going to start going into players one at a time, would really like you to get around to that particularly with the scum flip.
I don't see anything changing my townread of Regfan at this point. If him and Pozzai was w/w, it fooled me. This is not quite an "I lose to scumRegfan" read, but it's very close. Empoof (and Delphine) I entered a townreading tunnel at some point and I need to look at with fresh eyes. I expect to still think town, but yeah.
Vaimes and Nacho are townie when here, but they've both left less a mark on the game than their postcounts and who they are would make me expect. Vaimes I know has been busier since the beginning of the game, and Nacho's engagement in longer phases always wavers. Nacho has a chance to be scum just because he has been pulling the strings but not committing to anything really. Vaimes would have to have a pretty specific set of partners and with Pozzai flipped scum and Newcomb flipped town, I'm not really seeing it. But I'd like stronger stances from both.
I'd like to lynch DV as of right now. He has a decent chance of being scum and clearing Nacho (which is obviously huge). Him flipping town would muddle things a bit, but its definitely a flip we need soon either way.
Not sure what to do with Killjoy and Iso. Well, I know what I should do with Iso. It's ignore him like he deserves based on the way he's played this game and worry about him when it's time to claim. But that isn't particularly satisfying.
Delphines response towards Pozzais question inside Post #199 points against her being scum. Still like her analysis of Newcomb early on inside Post #220 and the analysis and progression on Pozzai inside Post #281 feels fairly natural. I really really don't see Delphine making Post #576 towards a partner, the photo of notes type thing for 'distancing' purposes is something I don't see her doing at all and makes her super likely be town from that alone. Still think her unedited and unprompted thoughts in fear a hammer had been laid inside Post #633 is a fairly solid town tell and similarly think lines re; her confidence on X=Y inside Post #669 and Post #671 come across as very genuine. Empoofs tone inside his first few replace in posts all came across as fairly town and I liked his prodding for information on Pozzai partners inside Post #854 and makes sense with his reasoning behind it in Post #858. Drop off of activity after that isn't great and certainly has scum motivation behind it especially if Nacho is town here and it was indeed a TvT fight that was clearly brewing. I really liked that his stance and thoughts on Pozzais claim inside Post #1142 mirrored mine and find his response to Pozzai in Post #1151 to be unlikely to come from a partner. Also like majority of his reads and his explanation behind his DV scum read inside Post #1178. Feel pretty good about this slot being town now.
I've barely said anything at all.
Pozzai - 2 (Vaimes, Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 6 (Typhrous, Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, Grapefruit21, tomsloger) (L-1)
o~o~o~o~o
I'm town. Regfan has put more effort into solving the game than anyone, and he spent all game pushing on the scum Roleblocker; he's town.
I really don't like Iso this game. His D1 push, his read on Pozzai, his claim, his target, his refusal to elaborate on his claim, and him doing mostly nothing on D2 all make him look awful. That said, he'll get sorted out during a massclaim, since we only have one other town PR flipped.
If we ignore Iso, then there is very, very likely to be one mafia between tom and Typhrous' slot. D_V is free to argue why he should be townread more than tom.
Some random notes I took during the Night:
- at least one of [tom, Nacho, Ophidia] is scum. My order of likelihood would be Ophidia > Nacho > tom, because...
- ...I think tom had good interactions with Pozzai (specifically, the "are you scum wtih Regfan? ...this feels like a 'yes'"), and Pozzai's flip-out-y reaction to it
- [notes I had about Newcomb being potential scum with Pozzai; no longer relevant]
- Pozzai has throwaway interactions with [Ophidia, Typhon]
- Nacho pushing for the Roleblocker to be lynched and defending the newbscum [Goon/BP?] doesn't make sense, so the team is never Nacho/Ophidia/Pozzai
I know lynching through DV/Killjoy is pretty universal-ish at this point and feels too easy, but unless Iso is doing some weirdo scum gambit or Nacho/tom are playing a damn good game, I'm pretty set with my DV vote.
I was starting to get worried about your slot and then you pocket me
I'm gonna be V/LA for 2-3 days while I'm out of town. Might pop in to give short things
It's mostly overall tone of the slot. Little things more than big things. Like when Killjoy had his moment yesterday of asking "why are we talking about PoE", it felt like he had a bit of fear of me being scum. Which is showing a townie mindset. I can go more thoroughly on the slot when I'm back but I'd put killjoy as a town lean over a scum lean atm.
The only way I'm buying it is if they decided to sacrifice DV to let Pozzai live to roleblock another night, and it just doesn't seem worth it with our tracker already dead. The slot was in the PoE but DV is pretty good at making people not want to lynch him. I'd have to check the timing of things to see if DV's 1 week break could have severely messed with those plans, and I do remember Nacho wanting to wait for a CC. But the whole thing is a bit of a stretch.
Although this is me we're talking about so DV is probably scum because I'm ignoring him in the possible scumteam.
@Empoof - Would appreciate if you could go more into it and comment on b) and c) when you do.
@Killjoy - Yep, holding you to it. Would also like your tinfoil "Scum team inside X/Y/Z" theory elaborated on because the throw out there doesn't really come across as genuine at all.
Have tomorrow night free to go through the remaining players [Iso, Nacho, Vaimes & Tom] and will probably end up voting DV afterwards unless something sticks out inside the interaction analysis.
What a strange thing to say with how many times we've played together. And the fact that this is likely the one and only time I'll play like this.
I'm town. Who is scum?
On it is INSCRIBED a MESSAGE:
"This is LIMESTONE TOMBSTONE. All CRAFTSRagnorSHIP is of the HIGHEST QUALITY. The TOMBSTONE menaces with SPIKES of RED SPINEL.
On the TOMBSTONE is a DEPICTION of a GALLOWS. In the GALLOWS hangs a CORPSE. This ARTWORK relates to the LYNCHING of SOMEONE by 7PM CST on MARCH 21ST, 2017
On the TOMBSTONE is a DEPICTION of PREMATURE NIGHTFALL. This ARTWORK relates to the CONSEQUENCES of SOMEONE not being LYNCHED by the DEADLINE."
The TOMBSTONE recedes back into the GROUND.
Man, that GUY is INCORPOREAL, you THINK to YOURSELF. How does he even DO this SORT of THING?
You suppose that the BETTER QUESTION is WHY.
I've been checked out of this game for OoG reasons but I'll try to give a good effort as soon as the opportunity for me to do so presents itself.
Goodnight.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll be casually reading through Vaimes/Tom throughout the next few hours, want to reaffirm my town reads there but if anyone pops in happy to actually converse about reads.
There's no holidays coming so IDK why we're so crazy this week.
If I'm lucky, there'll be a post following it.
@Tom: Can you describe what you envision Voxx's playstyle to be?
@Killjoy
If you would like to talk about how true my imitation is, it can wait for postgame.
VoxxicusI take this game way too seriously to talk about it now.Like, what are you doing differently than tom would?
What games of his did you read to prepare for this?
All of them.
But again- my reads are my reads. This is busy work.
I still find Isos "Scum team guess" involving 4 players inside Post #171 to be something less likely to come from scum especially combined with his "Wait we're in a basic" reaction in Post #172 posted within a minute, the only problematic part of the post is that two of the names on the list are flipped town, I'm town and I'm pretty sure Vaimes is town; it's not implausible for someone to have a really bad game but the fact that it could easily be scum setting themselves up to PowerWolf isn't great. Him shrugging me off when I asked him about Pozzai inside Post #282 is concerning too as is when he does the same thing inside Post #476; his stance there makes plenty of sense in attempting to save a partner (Particularly one that's a PR). His read stated and elaborated on Grapefruit inside Post #335 fits with the claimed shot and the huge elaboration into his thought process & reasoning behind why he's playing in the manner he is inside Post #511 still makes plenty of sense and reads very genuine as does his paranoia type read on Delphi pocketing inside Post #648. The vig claim inside Post #704 points fairly heavily towards him being town in that A) There's vigs inside ~70% of games and there's only 1 flipped PR here so far and B) He'd be aware of the huge likelihood of a vig existing and thus know that doing so is a fairly low-reward, high-risk play there, the shot also makes a lot more sense going through his posts on D1, several times he touched on his Grapes scum read but never fully went into it which fits his recent explanation inside Post #1223. So yeah, after going through that about the biggest issue I have with him is his prior stance on Pozzai, outside of that I think it's more likely he's town here than scum but really do want him to A) Start actually contributing and B) Elaborate a bit more on why he defended Pozzai to the level he did early on (And no "I changed my read after his claim and got it right then!" is not good enough), I need you to go back and let me know exactly what and why you ruled him out for.