There's a lot of scum you haven't wanted to lynch.
That's likely true. I've found at least one thing that made me want to trust each person in this game except Typhon and Iso. And even for Iso [xequalsy being scum] is a semi-compelling reason.
I'm fairly locked on you and Grapefruit being town. Regfan, Nacho, Newcomb, and Delphine I have no desire to lynch. Any of the rest are fine.
If we want a counterwagon, my gut says it should be Ophidia. But I think we all need the xequalsy flip to either stop second guessing ourselves or start doing it harder.
Sorry to hear about your health issues Typhon, look after yourself, I'm sure I'll catch you in another game soon. Replacement should bring in a new perspective to the thread, hoping it's one person in particular albeit I'm not quite sure how to read them.
Not reading X=Y's attitude inside Post #621 as town at all, really dislike the way he's attempting to state the reads on him makes him less confident in his reads -- that's not a thing. His point about me trying to lump his other reads with his read on me is a huge concern given it's near the opposite of what I said; I actually found his read on me to be one of the read that the most sense inside his reads post and stated such so his last paragraph there makes no sense and doesn't actually look like him attempting to scumhunt at all.
Not interested in lynching Delphi at all, really want the lynch inside Pozzai/X=Y. There's cookies for those that come join me on Pozzai here. If I get a chance later today I'll try and run through my scum-read on him again.
Kinda think Newcomb's "here are lots of reasons why we're about to mislynch, but let's do it anyways" is super lazy, but realistically, I don't see us lynching anyone else.
I feel pretty good about Vaimes!town. His tone has a lot of edge and the timing of his votes/pushes feels really natural to me.
With Pozzai I'm mostly struggling to find anything that's actually alignment indicative for him. Knowing him as a person, I think that the things he's pushing on are things that would be important to him as town, inc. what looks to me more like shiny object poor play from his perspective. He comes off disjointedly from the rest of the thread, but I wanna say it's more b/c he thrives on real-time interactions and has only been here in short spurts at weird hours. Have him noted somewhere as an "austere scummy little *****" and I think that's less true after ~#551-#553. I expected to come out of today w/ an actual read on him but I haven't and I'm not really sure how to fix that tbh.
I like the vast majority of this post, especially the Grapefruit and Nacho sections. But I would like some clarification on the two bolded sections when you can.
I think Delphis info dump inside #633 of a post she was clearly half way through making out of fear that a hammer had been dropped is a fairly big town tell especially considering she died N1 last game and felt she didn't get her reads out then, fits with not wanting a repeat. The reads on Vaimes/Newcomb/Grapes even the bit about his usage of 50% I agree with, mostly get the Iso one too. Think I've got a much stronger town read on Tom than she does. The stance on Pozzai is really underwhelming though, would have expected an actual read from her on him rather than a just waffle with no real conclusion while similarly ignoring the reasons most people are scum reading him for.
@Delphi - I actually liked Nachos post to Tom about Iso, can understand the 'pocketing' argument you're putting forward but found the read very genuine and like that he was one of the few (if not only) person to comment on the "basic" section of Isos posting. Can you try and articulate your last paragraph in #638 a little clearer, having a lot of difficulty trying to follow your thought process there.
I'm going to get home and pass out because **** catching up right now. Tomorrow if the game is still open I'd like to at least address some of the floaty stuff going on but I will probably have to disappoint Papa Regfan and finish catch-up tomorrow if I am so lucky to be breathing.
@Delphi - 1) The Tom thing was an early thing that I scum read Pozzai for, the larger (And stronger) reasons have to do with a) His avoidance of commenting on anything remotely important that has occurred throughout the game, b) The fact that his angles of questioning do not look like game solving type ones nor do they look like him focusing on alignment indicative areas for instance him going into semantics re; order of asking Newcomb->You about the read on him makes no sense as town but fits as busywork as mafia. 2) I don't have the same concerns you do about the linked post of Nachos, I've found of his discussion about his meta on me fairly solid.
@Nacho, 14 hours is a lot but I is still disappointed and you're now grounded for a week! Just want your up to date stances on players in the game, happy even if it's just a two paragraph post at this point.
Looks like no one is joining me on Pozzai which is pretty depressing since I think I've tried to throw my thought process re; my scum read on him fairly clearly into the thread. I'm out tonight but if this game continues to stagnate as much as it currently is doing so I'll probably hammer in 24-48 hours after Nacho/Newcomb have posted their thoughts or a replacement has actually happened, last thing I want is this to be a repeat of SSVM where people lose motivation to play the remainder of the game due to a D1 consisting off too many posts / people getting caught in a specific world view.
I think I've given you enough space after making you sad, so let's talk.
I'm concerned that you're scum trying to pocket me by agreeing with me on at least the X=Y stuff. I don't disagree with your points on him, but he's also made it really easy to lynch him toDay. If you could please assuage my concerns about you agreeing with me because you're scum rather than because you're good at catching scum early, please feel free to do so, as I'd be most appreciative.
Nothing personal, you understand. I'm just the paranoid type.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I just updated Wheat, but I wanted to toss this in the thread as well so you guys have some clue as to what's been going on/aren't overly harsh on whoever it is that comes next for my slot.
The very short story is that my health sort of imploded, and I had to undergo a stopgap surgery to try and remedy some of the issues yesterday. Resultantly, it is exceedingly unlikely that I will be able to give you guys the time the game/you deserve here, so I'm withdrawing. I'm sorry to have dallied this long when you could have had a replacement in my slot days ago, but I had no idea things were going to go ass up quite so quickly, and had been quite looking forward to this, so I was trying to avoid bailing if I could. Hope to one day catch a game with the lot of you again (preferably on MTGS when I don't have some sort of clusterf**k make me replace out -_-), catch up with you when my body isn't trying to end me.
How strong do you think the two town reads you commented on you are? What are your thought on Vaimes?
I'm not seeing why Tom is necessarily being opportunistic in his approach, he reasoned out his thought process - it's another thing entirely if you disagree with how he reached it more than it being based on just the one post.
Mentioned this before, but this post still feels very much like scum playing the "I'm reasonable" card placing himself between two town without really going anywhere with it. Like the scum mindset here is that you feel like you get some points for being correct. Feel pretty strongly that if Xequalsy is a wolf here it's nearly clearing for both Grapefruit AND tom.
Lets talk about 9. So you came into the game, didn't vote with your first post, and then blank voted me with your second post. What's the thought process there? Specifically, why vote there if you didn't with your first vote, and why me of your 12 options? What were you looking for with your questions to Grapefruit? Can you run me through the mindset in which you made 89?
I was planning to naked vote the next person who voted. Not sure I got a lot out of it since you (and everyone else) basically ignored it and disappeared, but it's definitely interesting you're the one who decided to pick it up again.
Not sure if my last post answers fully your question, but the idea was to understand if Grapefruit saw the townreads on him as being particularly strong. It kinda felt like an overreaction to me that he was scum-reading tom (the one who he already acknowledged to be "gimmicky") based on throwing out an early town read. (regarding my question about Vaimes, that was from misreading that he liked Vaimes whilst skimming instead of him being also apprehensive about Vaimes and confused at the contradiction)
Also
Vote: Iso
Come explain your reads please.
Again, both the major points here - the explanation of the naked vote, and the drive to understand Grapefruit's understanding of the strength of the townreads on him - are just... floaty. Like, not only is there no follow through where he goes, "and therefore I think player X is more likely to be [town/mafia], there's no real hint in those two points that you even really /could/ get something like that out of it, making those prods look exceedingly empty.
@Vaimes, any elaboration on your Grapefruit town read in #71? (Or if this isn't "later" yet, thoughts on tom/regfan's townreads of him and his suspicion of you)
@DelphiBlue - You've been very subdued so far. Care to weigh in with a vote on anyone?
... kind of run along the same lines.
Basically xequalsy seems very much like he's kind of on the sidelines, not solving, pushing back against some reads and trying to look reasonable, but the inquisitiveness is pretty surface level. Moderate scumread.
Easy world: xequalsy/Pozzai/Ophidia
Harder world: Regfan/Nacho/Iso
Suicide world: Vaimes/Grapefruit/Typhon
And with that, I'm going to go take a bunch of antiinflamatories and gargle some salt water. Ah, the joys of being sick.
Vote: xequalsy
This was from Newcomb's first mega and combined with Iso announcing x=y is scum and his vote is not moving are the two most influential cases. x=y's post 89 quoted above is the most common reason given along with tonal markers.
DelphiBlue - I've talked already about the passivity that I dislike. But in #480, I don't buy that her entire game view is so distorted by my play that she needs my flip to reconsider the game state.
What if I told you that I agreed with Delphine's stance; i.e. I also believe it's going to be next to impossible to move on from this gamestate until we resolve your alignment?
So yeah, please look at Iso&DelphiBlue D2 - in particular, please get her to fully explain #355, I'm sure N1 is long enough for her to formulate her experience on trying to read me this game.
Especially if Pozzai also turns out to be town, please come back and re-evaluate D1 being mostly t/t. I think Delphine would almost certainly be scum there.
If you do flip town I've had similar thoughts about wolf complacency D1, so. I think I've talked about this before even picking out Delphine, but this is a good reminder.
And it's one of the reasons I'm side-eyeing Newcomb. I thought Ophidia was laying it on pretty thick with his "people are right to suspect me, I didn't answer Vaimes' question and that was scummy" that Newcomb handwaved as earnest or whatever.
I'm like 75% sure that it was a different bit of Ophidia's early posting that I found earnest, but you'll be happy to know that my intial townread on him is down to a big fat waffle.
In case you get NK'd N1, I'd like your thoughts on the game state down assuming I was town. Am I completely off base on Iso being scummy in that world where he slapped down scum reads he doesn't explain, and then a vote he doesn't really explain? Who are the top town on my wagon and off it?
In the world where you're town, the odds of you being right on Delphine go up a ton. I think off the top of my head, Delphine + at least one, maybe two of Iso/tom/Nacho/Vaimes. If it's just one, Ophidia maybe can be the third? Like, especially if Pozzai is town, there is just zero % chance that there weren't at least two scum just kinda floating along. That's not Reg, unless he's way better at faking that kind of thing than I am. He's seemed pretty genuinely invested in progressing the game, and I feel like that would be just /hard/ to muster up the energy for if Pozzai/you are both misses.
Like. If you flip town, I don't think I can say "I'd snap off [this person] and walk away from the thread D2", because, like. Most people have treated you the same way - you /are/ hella lifeless, and the whole game thinks so, including me. So... scum either started that train or just went along for the ride.
Gun to my head, I'm putting Delphine under a microscope if you flip town, but I'm not committing to killing her without a re-read.
____
Want to talk holistically about xequalsy, this is kinda to myself to just make sure I've done my due diligence here.
I think there are a couple compelling reasons to townread him here but I'm pretty sure we still have to kill him.
1) Consensus scumread on D1 with lack of meaningful counterwagon. When you look at the lynchshape here, how the wagon's developed, with the context - D1, no redcheck, no info - does this look like a hit? No, it really doesn't.
2) VT claim. xequalsy was under a fair bit of heat before daychat closed, IIRC. Even if he wasn't, the first claim of the game being VT comes from scum, like... not super often. It's such an automatic +EV move to claim PR here, as mafia. To claim VT as scum in xequalsy's shoes here either shows a lack of care or insight into correct scumplay, or a pretty bold next level WIFOM move that no sane mafia player would give much credence to it actually saving them.
3) Asking specific people if he should claim. Would be a pretty nice touch to fake as mafia here; mafia in his shoes just either claims, or asks the whole game if he should. Asking a group of people like that - people he's townreading - is not a bad indicator that he's thinking about how to play this from a town perspective. Granted this isn't the strongest point; 1 and 2 are the main thrusts here, but it caught my eye and kind of reinforced what I was already thinking.
So, yeah. I think there's at least a coin flip that he's just VT.
That being said, because of the position we're in here, to not lynch him is essentially to clear him for the remainder of the game. And I just... can't quite do that. Because the persona he's got going on right now - which yeah, all the adjectives everyone's been throwing around, stiff, lifeless, robotic, that's all accurate.
The frustrating thing is that his townflip doesn't really tell us a ton; there are some directions to go, some leads to pursue, but the hugely consensus part of this read means, like. Yeah, like literally every town is okay with this lynch? No one is defending him? Meaning every single town player in this game is kind of on the same page here? Gonna make a townflip kinda messy to go back and sort.
I think if I were feeling a bit more bold, like I wanted to make a splash, I'd put my foot down here and try to swing it off him and onto Delphine. But that's projecting an awful lot of confidence that I just... don't really feel. Part of it's not having the time I'm accustomed to to invest in this game, for sure. I can't really confidently look at the future and say I'll have the time in the next few weeks to shove it down anyone's throat.
So, I'm good. Take us to D2 whenever, and xequalsy, if you're town, best I can do is a promise to not let people ignore or gloss over your reads tomorrow. Assuming I'm around and all.
This is Newcomb's post on the currentish state of affairs snipped down to size. I have some issues with it, but it's a good jumping in point.
The case in my eyes is basically 89 sucked. His posts with Iso sucked. His tone sounded defeated and resigned until recently. His later posts have been better so people are waffling.
EDWODP: 89 was x=y's post @me putting himself in the middle of tom and myself. I people took it as a "Hey fellow townies" moment. THought it would have the number in the quote wall.
Kind of hate Delphine a little less after reading her posts yesterday, I guess I can understand where the passivity in reading me stems from, and she hit on a few nodes I liked.
She's still fairly null maybe leaning town because of really stupid and bad reasons >_>
In regards to the Grapefruit read, in general he's seemed to not give a fudge about anyone's opinion about him, very blunt and 'in your face' at times, this had me leaning him town for the majority of the thread, and he then made a comment that flipped him more town for me, but can't quite remember where it was, I'll find it this afternoon when I have more time.
Since then his position with regards to flip-flopping on Iso. I do not think he as scum starts out by saying "this is town Iso" midways through the day, only to go "yeah I could agree with you on Iso now Tom". I don't see the 'need' to all of a sudden push that from scum!Grape's pov at this point.
Ophidia early posts have been talked about a bit, but I dislike the comment he had in regards to X=Y where a few days ago where he basically says "well I've done more than this guy, so I deserve to live".
I think scum in general considers themselves as having done 'more' than they actually have in a game, and from experience the argument that more=town, more often comes from scum.
At the same time Ophidia hasn't voted the person she spoke about in that manner either, he's still sitting on an rvs vote, and while you could argue that it's to not hammer, there's been plenty of situations where we've been {L-2}.
Welcome DV, if you've got any objections towards the X=Y lynch best let us know soon. I'll likely be hammering tomorrow after Nachos given his recent thoughts and reads and Newcombs checked in again. Grapes quoted most of peoples main reasons behind X=Y being mafia but for me the strongest scum-tell of his is the lack of conviction behind any of his scum reads, looks very fake particularly his treatment of Iso and his robotic posting throughout the day is something I see significantly more often as mafia, I similarly think the weak explanations behind several of his town reads show a lack of actual scumhunting here.
Actually do like Pozzais point about Ophidia inside Post #660 about him still on his RVS vote on his strongest town read in the game while claiming to be up to date and scum reading X=Y while he wasn't at L-1 the entire time, would make plenty of sense being scum with X=Y and wanting to agree with the read but not actually increase the likelihood of his lynch. That said don't like his read on Delphi inside Post #658 feels very panderingy.
It probably has something to do with Tammy, should watch what you say about her and maybe the CEO problem will go away!<that *****>, she gives my boss crabs and is now the reason my CEO is hanging around like a bad smell!
Public Mod Note (Bur): Even as a joke, flaming is not allowed. Warning issued.
@Newcomb - 1) I don't think Pozzais over focus on the meta / different medians of mafia is a town tell at all nor do I think it reads 'pure'? It should be pretty obvious by now that my stance is that VM doesn't translate to FM so him harping on that rather than the actual real reasons I think he's mafia makes very little sense -- it's one of those things where scum tend to focus on what they think is a 'weak' point in a case against them while ignoring the rest. 2) I think your point #1 re; the consensus and ease the X=Y wagon has formed is a solid one (That said a fairly similar thing happened in TH7 where the leading two wagons D1 were scum (Miner/Math) with little resistance elsewhere and I can see that potentially being the case here), I don't make much from the VT claim personally; attempted to use that as a tell a few years ago (Expecting mafia run up to not claim VT) and got burnt by it far too often, similarly your point #3 does very little for me.
Re: Pozzai; I get that, but there's an element of stubbornness to his video mafia thing that feels towny to me. Like, I know what you're talking about re: scum harping on minor points and ignoring major ones; this doesn't feel quite like that to me. Especially when he elaborated on it - I don't even remember his specific point, but it was something about how you were basically holding him to conflicting standards or something - that felt like he'd actually thought about it, like it wasn't lip service.
Fair enough re: points 2 and 3.
Do you agree with my basic conclusion, though? Like. "He's not lock scum and there are good reasons to think he's town, but we don't want to just deal with this all over again D2, so we basically have to clear him for the rest of the game, or kill him."
Part of me wants to unvote because Newcomb's points are compelling.
Another part of me doesn't because this D1 has dragged on long enough and a 50% shot at a scum lynch is actually pretty great.
@Newcomb If x=y flips town you find me more scummy correct?
Not.. really? I didn't love that post I quoted of yours; it felt kinda like you knew xequsly was town and leaned on tom and Pozzai there to re-bolster your vote. It felt self-aware in a kind of shady way. Your ~10 posts before that reminded me why I was initially townreading you, though.
I think in general if X=y flips town I want to do a hard reset on my reads.
I just updated Wheat, but I wanted to toss this in the thread as well so you guys have some clue as to what's been going on/aren't overly harsh on whoever it is that comes next for my slot.
The very short story is that my health sort of imploded, and I had to undergo a stopgap surgery to try and remedy some of the issues yesterday. Resultantly, it is exceedingly unlikely that I will be able to give you guys the time the game/you deserve here, so I'm withdrawing. I'm sorry to have dallied this long when you could have had a replacement in my slot days ago, but I had no idea things were going to go ass up quite so quickly, and had been quite looking forward to this, so I was trying to avoid bailing if I could. Hope to one day catch a game with the lot of you again (preferably on MTGS when I don't have some sort of clusterf**k make me replace out -_-), catch up with you when my body isn't trying to end me.
Newcomb's self-assurance is very town imo, as was the Newtron bombing while sick and his recent interactions around Iso.
What's been the most self-assured thing I've done IYO? Like. Not gonna lie, I haven't felt this ambivalent about this game in a while. Part of it's the tempo and part of it's my extreme RL business right now, but it doesn't feel like I game I could crush if only I could dedicate 300% of the time to it, and I really don't feel like I've been projecting self-assurance.
]I think Delphis info dump inside #633 of a post she was clearly half way through making out of fear that a hammer had been dropped is a fairly big town tell especially considering she died N1 last game and felt she didn't get her reads out then, fits with not wanting a repeat. The reads on Vaimes/Newcomb/Grapes even the bit about his usage of 50% I agree with, mostly get the Iso one too. Think I've got a much stronger town read on Tom than she does. The stance on Pozzai is really underwhelming though, would have expected an actual read from her on him rather than a just waffle with no real conclusion while similarly ignoring the reasons most people are scum reading him for.
@Delphi - I actually liked Nachos post to Tom about Iso, can understand the 'pocketing' argument you're putting forward but found the read very genuine and like that he was one of the few (if not only) person to comment on the "basic" section of Isos posting. Can you try and articulate your last paragraph in #638 a little clearer, having a lot of difficulty trying to follow your thought process there.
This is just. Not a w/w conversation. I'd probably lock clear the other if one of Iso/Grapefruit flipped wolf here.
I kind of ignored this yesterday to think about it for a bit, but why is it so strong for you? I can kind of see some indication, but lockclearing?
The nuance to that read. It's so clearly, vibrantly trying to be understood / trying to articulate something. It just has to come from people who don't know they're on a team. There's a ton of little detail in there that like, yeah sure is potentially fakable to a partner, but that many, I just don't see it. The apology for making him angry, the way he tries to talk about the xequalsy wagon in terms of Iso's contribution to it without really pushing an agenda - like it's almost 100% likely that if they were w/w that wagon discussion would come with some sort of... agenda. Either blame, or setting him up to look good, depending on xquealsy's alignment.
Just... read that post with the assumption that Grapefruit and Iso have been knowingly on the same team since the beginning of the game. I just don't see it.
@DV I think others have adequately covered it. Basically, look through his ISO and try to find that thing called "towny energy" and he doesn't have it.
At this point I'd vote on Pozzai, Ophidia, or xequalsy, but tbh all three feel kinda like "meh, not a townread, fine" to me.
I think as long as I'm not getting snowed by exactly Regfan it's at least okay? I've generally agreed with a lot of what he's saying / how he's approaching the game, so if he's a wolf here that's definitely gonna be *****ty. That being said, I think holistically his drive to solve the game feels pretty real. I feel like he could have gotten away with less, as a wolf. This game feels like it's dragging for me, and as mafia here for Reg it must be like, suuuuuper draggy, yet he's still driving forward. So... hopefully he's just town and in basically the same place I am.
@Pozzai so then your top scum reads become Reg>Ophi>>>Delphi>Everyone else?
Want to lynch:
Reg, Ophi
Okay with lynching:
Iso, Nacho, X=Y
Wouldn't lie sleepless over lynching as last resort:
TyphD_V, Delphine
Would probably be more like it, had you asked yesterday Delphine had probably been up a tier. The last two I'm obviously not 'interested' in lynching, but their lynch wouldn't 'devastate' me.
@Newcomb - 1) I think I know where you're coming from re; Pozzai stubbornness with the VM->FM thing but I just don't agree with your conclusion? For instance the 'conflicting standards' thing never happened and it's pretty clear that VM has nothing to do with my scum read on him. 2) Do agree that X=Y isn't 'lock scum' largely due to how easily he was wagoned in comparison to Pozzai and others but then again that happened in TH7, that said I think my confidence level of him flipping scum is higher than yours; I'd rate it closer to 70-80% rather than a coinflip; I've got enough town reads elsewhere that I think the odds of him being scum via PoE alone is very high, add his play to that and I think we do have a solid chance at hitting scum here and if he is then I think the odds of the scum team being exactly X+Y+Pozzai+ 1 of Ophidia/D_V is very high. Do agree with your analysis that we have to either lynch him or clear him here anything else and he's just going to be a constant issue in future days.
@Pozzai so then your top scum reads become Reg>Ophi>>>Delphi>Everyone else?
Want to lynch:
Reg, Ophi
Okay with lynching:
Iso, Nacho, X=Y
Wouldn't lie sleepless over lynching as last resort:
TyphD_V, Delphine
Would probably be more like it, had you asked yesterday Delphine had probably been up a tier. The last two I'm obviously not 'interested' in lynching, but their lynch wouldn't 'devastate' me.
Like, if all three scum isn't in the two top tiers, I'd at this point expect the last one(assuming I'm not 80-100% backwards) to be between TyphD_V and Delphine. TyphD_V has been very non-present(obviously for good reason) and would be a very poor lynch even should the spot turn out to be scum, because there's so little to learn from it, and as my prior post said I kind of read Delphine town, but not really? I don't even know.
Not.. really? I didn't love that post I quoted of yours; it felt kinda like you knew xequsly was town and leaned on tom and Pozzai there to re-bolster your vote. It felt self-aware in a kind of shady way. Your ~10 posts before that reminded me why I was initially townreading you, though.
I think in general if X=y flips town I want to do a hard reset on my reads.
Doing a hard reset was fair, but my post was more weakening my x=y read than bolstering it. Anyway I just really find it strange that you point out that post and then in the same post say
In the world where you're (x=y: Editors note) town, the odds of you being right on Delphine go up a ton. I think off the top of my head, Delphine + at least one, maybe two of Iso/tom/Nacho/Vaimes. If it's just one, Ophidia maybe can be the third? Like, especially if Pozzai is town, there is just zero % chance that there weren't at least two scum just kinda floating along. That's not Reg, unless he's way better at faking that kind of thing than I am. He's seemed pretty genuinely invested in progressing the game, and I feel like that would be just /hard/ to muster up the energy for if Pozzai/you are both misses.
Like. If you flip town, I don't think I can say "I'd snap off [this person] and walk away from the thread D2", because, like. Most people have treated you the same way - you /are/ hella lifeless, and the whole game thinks so, including me. So... scum either started that train or just went along for the ride.
Gun to my head, I'm putting Delphine under a microscope if you flip town, but I'm not committing to killing her without a re-read.
Like your going to reset your reads and look at Vaimes, tom, and Iso but leave me off just after your drew attention to a post of mine that looks bad if X=y flips town. I don't like it.
Vote: Ophidia this day needs to end and this is the only other candidate that have enough steam to get a lynch done. I don't love the case but the day needs to end and I'm not sure I want to lynch x=y anymore.
I really like Delphis above post, the linked posts specifically the fist one of Newcombs all come across as town to me too.
@Grapes - Don't think any lynch other than X=Y is plausible at the moment; too many people are locked into the read and I myself am more confident of X=Y flipping scum than Ophi, only person I'd prefer is Pozzai and effectively no one has joined me on him all day so I don't think that's even doable.
Heading to bed, hoping to wake up and see Nachos updated reads.
Quick post since I'm on my lunch break and have to go back in ~10mins:
Skimmed the last few pages, where is Ophidia?? They're slipping down and down my list I think. Sheeps other people's reasoning on planning to vote for me (worse, not even giving much explanation until prodded), then just seems to be lying low after making somewhat a deal out of how they were giving more thoughts/hunting than me.
I'm not going to fight an Ophidia lynch, but I can't put my vote behind it because I said I would vote X=Y until the end of the Day and I'm a man of my word! That said, consider me on the wagon in spirit.
-
@Delphi: That...doesn't really address my issue, here.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hoping for a Nacho sighting in the next few hours!
X=Y popping in solely to attack Ophidia at a time when a few others have stated possible intention towards lynching there doesn't come across well at all, the timing feels very opportunistic.
Sadly, I don't have nearly enough time to invest into this game as of now. I wouldn't want to mostly fluff post and wait so I will ask for a /replace from wheat. Sorry guys.
I was going to troll-hammer and have been waiting to troll-hammer for basically the entire game, and you took the chance from me. My next three days are going to be extremely limited and so I love you fine ladies and gentlemen for making this happen at basically the perfect time, am sad to see Ophidia gone. If you're looking for that sweet Nacho interaction that you crave and desire, come and get me.
Newcomb/Delphi, I see that I've been accused of making lots of pretty observations and pretty words and not making a general impact on the game. You're absolutely right. And, if this game wasn't going along as swimmingly as it is, you'd probably see a lot more teeth gnashing and fire, but as it stands, people this game have been playing well and I've had more sounding boards than I know what to do with. I've played with good playerlists like this one but typically ego clashes and everyone melts down and that hasn't come close to happening here. The closest thing I've seen to push that's seemed weird is a push that's not a push at all (Newcomb's "we'll have to kill Ophidia eventually!"). Tom's Iso push is one of the things in this thread that I've felt the closest to disagreeing with and even then it's felt more like an academic disagreement than anything emotional or particularly frustrating, and I've been through a bunch of games that have been frustrating or annoying or too easy or too emotionally charged and this, at least right now, is not any of those things and it's really really wonderful. I'm sure that your concerns will die pretty soon because X=Y will inevitably flip town and Regfan will flip out on me for lurking for a day and I'll get banned for flaming Tammy too hard but right now it just feels good.
You've reached your INITIAL DESTINATION of the OREGANO HILLS. Well, most of you have. When you AWAKEN, you're SHOCKED to find the BODY of Grapefruit21 LYING THERE in a BLOODY MESS. He was LILY ADAM VIOLET (LAV), Town Tracker
Having reached the OREGANO HILLS, you CONTINUE your PILGRIMAGE. Next STOP, LOVER'S DIVE, the SITE of the ORIGINAL BETRAYAL.
It is now DAY 2. With TEN ALIVE, it takes SIX to LYNCH.
You feel a FAINT MEMORY in your HEAD. A VOICE EXPLAINS very SADLY that there was an ERROR YESTERDAY - Typhrous' vote was accidentally STILL COUNTED, meaning that xequalsy was LYNCHED PREMATURELY. The VOICE PROMISES that the VOTECOUNT will be BETTER-VETTED from NOW ON.
Either our active protective role stinks, or scum have roles that suggest a passive protective role, or none at all.
Taking an open shot on Grapefruit N1 seems eh.
But anyways, I hate hate hate Newcomb's EoD post where he highlighted a bunch of good reasons to move the wagon off of x=y, and then went "but yeah let's lynch him anyway, otherwise we have to clear him." Which is total bull*****.
That's likely true. I've found at least one thing that made me want to trust each person in this game except Typhon and Iso. And even for Iso [xequalsy being scum] is a semi-compelling reason.
I'm fairly locked on you and Grapefruit being town. Regfan, Nacho, Newcomb, and Delphine I have no desire to lynch. Any of the rest are fine.
If we want a counterwagon, my gut says it should be Ophidia. But I think we all need the xequalsy flip to either stop second guessing ourselves or start doing it harder.
Not reading X=Y's attitude inside Post #621 as town at all, really dislike the way he's attempting to state the reads on him makes him less confident in his reads -- that's not a thing. His point about me trying to lump his other reads with his read on me is a huge concern given it's near the opposite of what I said; I actually found his read on me to be one of the read that the most sense inside his reads post and stated such so his last paragraph there makes no sense and doesn't actually look like him attempting to scumhunt at all.
Not interested in lynching Delphi at all, really want the lynch inside Pozzai/X=Y. There's cookies for those that come join me on Pozzai here. If I get a chance later today I'll try and run through my scum-read on him again.
Unvote, vote xequalsy
I like the vast majority of this post, especially the Grapefruit and Nacho sections. But I would like some clarification on the two bolded sections when you can.
This post is the main thing I'm townreading Ophidia for. The rest is a cavalcade of meh with minor pings each way.
@Delphi - I actually liked Nachos post to Tom about Iso, can understand the 'pocketing' argument you're putting forward but found the read very genuine and like that he was one of the few (if not only) person to comment on the "basic" section of Isos posting. Can you try and articulate your last paragraph in #638 a little clearer, having a lot of difficulty trying to follow your thought process there.
Ecophagy is LOOKING for a new MENTEE.
Without very much POMP of CIRCUMSTANCE, the following TEXT APPEARS:
VOTECOUNT
Iso - 1 (xequalsy)
Pozzai - 1 (Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 5 (Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, tomsloger, Vaimes) (L-2)
Not Voting - 2 (Grapefruit21,Typhrous)
Without very much POMP or CIRCUMSTANCE, you look away from the PART of the TEXT that you have come to EXPECT after such a TIDING.
Hoping for good news to come your way Typh. That sucks.
Read X=y's iso again and yeah let's end this.
Vote: xequalsy
I'm going to get home and pass out because **** catching up right now. Tomorrow if the game is still open I'd like to at least address some of the floaty stuff going on but I will probably have to disappoint Papa Regfan and finish catch-up tomorrow if I am so lucky to be breathing.
@Nacho, 14 hours is a lot but I is still disappointed and you're now grounded for a week! Just want your up to date stances on players in the game, happy even if it's just a two paragraph post at this point.
Looks like no one is joining me on Pozzai which is pretty depressing since I think I've tried to throw my thought process re; my scum read on him fairly clearly into the thread. I'm out tonight but if this game continues to stagnate as much as it currently is doing so I'll probably hammer in 24-48 hours after Nacho/Newcomb have posted their thoughts or a replacement has actually happened, last thing I want is this to be a repeat of SSVM where people lose motivation to play the remainder of the game due to a D1 consisting off too many posts / people getting caught in a specific world view.
I think I've given you enough space after making you sad, so let's talk.
I'm concerned that you're scum trying to pocket me by agreeing with me on at least the X=Y stuff. I don't disagree with your points on him, but he's also made it really easy to lynch him toDay. If you could please assuage my concerns about you agreeing with me because you're scum rather than because you're good at catching scum early, please feel free to do so, as I'd be most appreciative.
Nothing personal, you understand. I'm just the paranoid type.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll fix the OP and stuff when I'm not worried about sleeping enough.
Iso - 1 (xequalsy)
Pozzai - 1 (Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 6 (Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, tomsloger, Vaimes, Grapefruit21) (L-2)
Not Voting - 1 (DV)
No, Iso, I'm not going to color you in blue just yet.
I kind of ignored this yesterday to think about it for a bit, but why is it so strong for you? I can kind of see some indication, but lockclearing?
Sorry to hear, get better man
It's a lot of hand wringing and going through the motions of solving. I think I've seen the words "robotic" and "lifeless" bandied about.
I'm really disappointed your first post wasn't a hammer.
This was from Newcomb's first mega and combined with Iso announcing x=y is scum and his vote is not moving are the two most influential cases. x=y's post 89 quoted above is the most common reason given along with tonal markers.
This is Newcomb's post on the currentish state of affairs snipped down to size. I have some issues with it, but it's a good jumping in point.
The case in my eyes is basically 89 sucked. His posts with Iso sucked. His tone sounded defeated and resigned until recently. His later posts have been better so people are waffling.
She's still fairly null maybe leaning town because of really stupid and bad reasons >_>
In regards to the Grapefruit read, in general he's seemed to not give a fudge about anyone's opinion about him, very blunt and 'in your face' at times, this had me leaning him town for the majority of the thread, and he then made a comment that flipped him more town for me, but can't quite remember where it was, I'll find it this afternoon when I have more time.
Since then his position with regards to flip-flopping on Iso. I do not think he as scum starts out by saying "this is town Iso" midways through the day, only to go "yeah I could agree with you on Iso now Tom". I don't see the 'need' to all of a sudden push that from scum!Grape's pov at this point.
If it was Iso mang.
Woulda snapped.
Ophidia early posts have been talked about a bit, but I dislike the comment he had in regards to X=Y where a few days ago where he basically says "well I've done more than this guy, so I deserve to live".
I think scum in general considers themselves as having done 'more' than they actually have in a game, and from experience the argument that more=town, more often comes from scum.
At the same time Ophidia hasn't voted the person she spoke about in that manner either, he's still sitting on an rvs vote, and while you could argue that it's to not hammer, there's been plenty of situations where we've been {L-2}.
Actually do like Pozzais point about Ophidia inside Post #660 about him still on his RVS vote on his strongest town read in the game while claiming to be up to date and scum reading X=Y while he wasn't at L-1 the entire time, would make plenty of sense being scum with X=Y and wanting to agree with the read but not actually increase the likelihood of his lynch. That said don't like his read on Delphi inside Post #658 feels very panderingy.
... lol
Re: Pozzai; I get that, but there's an element of stubbornness to his video mafia thing that feels towny to me. Like, I know what you're talking about re: scum harping on minor points and ignoring major ones; this doesn't feel quite like that to me. Especially when he elaborated on it - I don't even remember his specific point, but it was something about how you were basically holding him to conflicting standards or something - that felt like he'd actually thought about it, like it wasn't lip service.
Fair enough re: points 2 and 3.
Do you agree with my basic conclusion, though? Like. "He's not lock scum and there are good reasons to think he's town, but we don't want to just deal with this all over again D2, so we basically have to clear him for the rest of the game, or kill him."
Not.. really? I didn't love that post I quoted of yours; it felt kinda like you knew xequsly was town and leaned on tom and Pozzai there to re-bolster your vote. It felt self-aware in a kind of shady way. Your ~10 posts before that reminded me why I was initially townreading you, though.
I think in general if X=y flips town I want to do a hard reset on my reads.
Be well, man.
What's been the most self-assured thing I've done IYO? Like. Not gonna lie, I haven't felt this ambivalent about this game in a while. Part of it's the tempo and part of it's my extreme RL business right now, but it doesn't feel like I game I could crush if only I could dedicate 300% of the time to it, and I really don't feel like I've been projecting self-assurance.
Agreed.
The nuance to that read. It's so clearly, vibrantly trying to be understood / trying to articulate something. It just has to come from people who don't know they're on a team. There's a ton of little detail in there that like, yeah sure is potentially fakable to a partner, but that many, I just don't see it. The apology for making him angry, the way he tries to talk about the xequalsy wagon in terms of Iso's contribution to it without really pushing an agenda - like it's almost 100% likely that if they were w/w that wagon discussion would come with some sort of... agenda. Either blame, or setting him up to look good, depending on xquealsy's alignment.
Just... read that post with the assumption that Grapefruit and Iso have been knowingly on the same team since the beginning of the game. I just don't see it.
@DV I think others have adequately covered it. Basically, look through his ISO and try to find that thing called "towny energy" and he doesn't have it.
At this point I'd vote on Pozzai, Ophidia, or xequalsy, but tbh all three feel kinda like "meh, not a townread, fine" to me.
I think as long as I'm not getting snowed by exactly Regfan it's at least okay? I've generally agreed with a lot of what he's saying / how he's approaching the game, so if he's a wolf here that's definitely gonna be *****ty. That being said, I think holistically his drive to solve the game feels pretty real. I feel like he could have gotten away with less, as a wolf. This game feels like it's dragging for me, and as mafia here for Reg it must be like, suuuuuper draggy, yet he's still driving forward. So... hopefully he's just town and in basically the same place I am.
Want to lynch:
Reg, Ophi
Okay with lynching:
Iso, Nacho, X=Y
Wouldn't lie sleepless over lynching as last resort:
TyphD_V, Delphine
Would probably be more like it, had you asked yesterday Delphine had probably been up a tier. The last two I'm obviously not 'interested' in lynching, but their lynch wouldn't 'devastate' me.
Like, if all three scum isn't in the two top tiers, I'd at this point expect the last one(assuming I'm not 80-100% backwards) to be between TyphD_V and Delphine. TyphD_V has been very non-present(obviously for good reason) and would be a very poor lynch even should the spot turn out to be scum, because there's so little to learn from it, and as my prior post said I kind of read Delphine town, but not really? I don't even know.
Doing a hard reset was fair, but my post was more weakening my x=y read than bolstering it. Anyway I just really find it strange that you point out that post and then in the same post say
Like your going to reset your reads and look at Vaimes, tom, and Iso but leave me off just after your drew attention to a post of mine that looks bad if X=y flips town. I don't like it.
Vote: Ophidia this day needs to end and this is the only other candidate that have enough steam to get a lynch done. I don't love the case but the day needs to end and I'm not sure I want to lynch x=y anymore.
@Grapes - Don't think any lynch other than X=Y is plausible at the moment; too many people are locked into the read and I myself am more confident of X=Y flipping scum than Ophi, only person I'd prefer is Pozzai and effectively no one has joined me on him all day so I don't think that's even doable.
Heading to bed, hoping to wake up and see Nachos updated reads.
Skimmed the last few pages, where is Ophidia?? They're slipping down and down my list I think. Sheeps other people's reasoning on planning to vote for me (worse, not even giving much explanation until prodded), then just seems to be lying low after making somewhat a deal out of how they were giving more thoughts/hunting than me.
Vote: Ophidia
-
@Delphi: That...doesn't really address my issue, here.
Don't worry. You will, soon enough.
You're lucky I'm lazy or I'd case you just to be vindictive.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
X=Y popping in solely to attack Ophidia at a time when a few others have stated possible intention towards lynching there doesn't come across well at all, the timing feels very opportunistic.
Can't since he's not at L-1; Nacho/Grapes can hammer after Nachos posted his updated reads.
Unvote, Vote xequalsy
Vote xequalsy
I don't really see any compelling reason to fight this one. Lez go day 2.
I was going to troll-hammer and have been waiting to troll-hammer for basically the entire game, and you took the chance from me. My next three days are going to be extremely limited and so I love you fine ladies and gentlemen for making this happen at basically the perfect time, am sad to see Ophidia gone. If you're looking for that sweet Nacho interaction that you crave and desire, come and get me.
What do you think of me inadvertently asking "scum!nacho" type questions? And what do you think of Vaimes' reaction to them?
VOTECOUNT
Iso - 1 (xequalsy)
Ophidia - 2 (Grapefruit21, Pozzai)
Pozzai - 1 (Regfan)
Regfan - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 7 (Typhrous, Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, tomsloger, Vaimes, D_V)
A RED LIGHT suddenly shines out from the CLOUDS, pointed directly on xequalsy.
Everyone looks at him. "He must be SCUM," a PLURALITY decide.
"It's not me!" shouts xequalsy. "Don't you see, I'm one of the NINE. I'm CAPTAIN SERGEI! Surely you recognize me from your DREAMS!"
But none of you recall him.
You quickly tie xequalsy to a CANNON and throw him OVERBOARD. He SINKS QUICKLY. The last of the LIGHT fades, and turns BLUE.
You think about what you've done.
xequalsy has been LYNCHED. He was CAPTAIN SERGEI, Vanilla Town
It is now NIGHT. ACTIONS, if you have any, are due to me with SEVENTY TWO HOURS.
Having reached the OREGANO HILLS, you CONTINUE your PILGRIMAGE. Next STOP, LOVER'S DIVE, the SITE of the ORIGINAL BETRAYAL.
It is now DAY 2. With TEN ALIVE, it takes SIX to LYNCH.
You feel a FAINT MEMORY in your HEAD. A VOICE EXPLAINS very SADLY that there was an ERROR YESTERDAY - Typhrous' vote was accidentally STILL COUNTED, meaning that xequalsy was LYNCHED PREMATURELY. The VOICE PROMISES that the VOTECOUNT will be BETTER-VETTED from NOW ON.
Taking an open shot on Grapefruit N1 seems eh.
But anyways, I hate hate hate Newcomb's EoD post where he highlighted a bunch of good reasons to move the wagon off of x=y, and then went "but yeah let's lynch him anyway, otherwise we have to clear him." Which is total bull*****.