Hey Nacho, I just skimmed your ISO and I realized that you are really, really, really light on scumreads. You've thrown out townreads on Typhon, Grapefruit, Vaimes, sort of on Reg, and to a lesser degree (at least pushing back on other people's scumreads) on Iso and tom. You've cast some general, very hands-off suspicion at Pozzai and Ophidia, but then smacked me around about not townreading Ophidia as hard as you (which, again, ????). You had an odd comment about xequalsy where you townread him for something early, but then "you wouldn't be shocked if the Tammy curse continued" and he was mafia, or something like that.
Talk to me about where your head's at, broadly.
Of the people you've called town, who's your strongest read at the moment? Of the people you've cast suspicion on, do you believe any of them are scum strongly enough that you want to actually lynch them? IIRC your vote's on Reg. Assuming that's not an actual vote? If deadline was in an hour, where would you vote?
Do you think that if we swing through Pozzai, xequalsy, and Ophidia we stand a decent chance of hitting two wolves there?
What do you think about the gamestate in general?
I'm just kind of firing off general questions at this point; you know what I'm asking you. Especially in light of your "it doesn't feel like one of those "everyone is super town" games" comment. I don't need an ordered list or anything, but I'd like something a little more focused than what you've been putting out.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
When somebody posts something and I respond to it with a vote, I fully expect people to go, "Huh, wonder what Iso sees?" and mull over that person's posts.
Look at the playerlist.
Then look back at yourself.
Then look at the playerlist again.
Back at yourself.
That is to say, this isn't really that kind of game.
Are you familiar with the phrase, "If the mountain won't come to Muhammad then Muhammad must go to the mountain"?
Nope.
Alright, well, you do you. I was just trying to say that I don't think that expectation holds up, at all, in this game. Like, if you're not going to be transparent about your hypothetical xequalsy read, I have no real reason to treat it like it exists. But I'm also suuuuuuper not interested in trying to drag it out of you. Like I said, that's not the game I signed up to play.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okay had an emergency in the family that has completely consumed the past three days. Things are going to slowly normalize going forward but I'll still be spotty over the next couple days. I'll still try to pop in and make a few posts and when I head back to work next week I'll be posting from there guaranteed even if things are still chaotic at home. Anyway onto the fun stuff.
I'm just going to do a mini version of my full reads list rather than trying to respond to everything.
Town
Grape: I'm town despite there being some doubts now because of my peaceing out of the thread.
Town Reads
Vaimes: I have a much easier time seeing everything Vaimes is doing from a town POV. He is asking relavent questions, pushing but not tunneling, and seems like he's Vaimes from his town games I've read.
Iso: This feels very much like town can't be bothered to put any effort into the game Iso who is assuming he'll figure it out later. His actions are a bit scummy but his tone screams town Iso to me. @Iso, Hi I'm town and hope you find more time to invest in this game going forward. But if you can't I'm going to be very happy to join tom and lynch you, this read is projecting future behavior.
Town Leans
Regfan: I don't have a ton here but I really liked 205. What worries me here and more elsewhere is the lack of forward thrust in his posts. There is a lot of "here's a wall of thoughts reach your own conclusions and town read me because this post was long." I mostly see the town POV on the posts like his flurry around 205 so Reg is in the town leans for now.
tomsloger: I think I was just wrong here and I like the way he's pushed Iso even if I'm town reading Iso.
Null
Nacho, DelphiBlue, and Typhrous have collective left no impression on me past RVS and that is my own fault. I am ignoring them in the abbrevaited reread because I want to focus on people I have opinions on while I have time to post but I will dig in as soon as I have more time. (minus hating Typhorus' entrance which I still hate)
Newcomb: Has a stronger case of my reservations on Regfan. 314 is a massive post and helped me greatly in catching up, but I come out of not finding him giving anywhere for the thread to go (his scum teams at the end aren't helpful, and his vote is beyond consensus). He is providing a ton of helpful information and analysis, but I'm not seeing a ton of effort to build consensus and push the gamestate forward. Like he keeps butting heads with Iso which is getting nowhere and just aruging a read that isn't going anywhere because the player they are aruging about is v/la. Walls are great and memes are funny, but I'm not seeing enough here.
Pozzai: I don't get the consensus scum read. Pozzai is another person I really need to reread, but I liked his entrance.
Scum Leans
Ophi: So this is a weird one for me. Ophi's tone throughout this game has screamed scum to me. In Bare Bones and elsewhere Ophi has been relatively willing to go along with consensus and shown a huge desire to survive as long as possible. Here Ophidia hasn't shown concern about surviving later into the game and has been willing to engage in banter which is new. Which makes me think they are actively looking to change the way they are playing because they have a reason to, eg rolling scum. That said their interactions with Newcomb come across as so earnestly towny that I'm not super invested in this tonal read. It just feels like a different player in tone, but not necessarily in play, which makes me think Ophi isn't town.
Xequalsy: I'm sheeping everyone's reads here but I see them too.
I think we will hit 1 scum between Ophi and X=Y and am happy to lynch either today.
I ran out of time a bit because life is busy right now and I'm sorry I couldn't link more or give any reads on Nacho, Delph, or Typh. I will try to rectify that going forward but no promises in the short term.
Vote: xequalsy *Furiously crosses fingers that this vote works*
EBWODP: I know it's super hypocritical to call out Newcomb for not giving the thread anywhere to go and then go pure consensus vote, but I've been beyond busy and not posting so whatever.
Out drinking tonight, will either get to this when I get home or tomorrow morning, should be able to devote a bit of time to trying and solidify a few reads on the weekend.
"Why are you focusing on a scumread you have that I'm obfuscating my own read on."
You could be not purposefully obnoxious sometimes.
While we're on this subject, am I missing something? Because I don't understand how wanting an elaboration on how someone being a "delight" is the basis of a read = I didn't read properly and I'm "wasting [his] time."
This has nothing to do with Vaimes being upset at Iso. And is just feels like mudslinging to bring up here.
Hey, xequalsy: Why do you think I was "clearly wrong once"? Vaimes hasn't flipped. Do you expdct me to believe that you've grokked a better understanding of the gamestate than I have at this point when you've pressured absolutely nobody and the best vote you could come up with is on me?
Well I'm town so you're still wrong. It doesn't matter if Vaimes has flipped or not, you were "pretty sure" that the scum team was Grapefruit/me/Vaimes and now you're more Grapefruit/me/Ophidia. You're wrong for one of the teams.
And yes, since your basic premise of the game so far has been - xequalsy is 100% scum and I'm not moving off him for the rest of the day. So I by default have a better understand of the gamestate since I'm in the position of being the main wagon at the moment knowing the fact that I'm town.
The vote on you was a prod to see what you'd post. Yes, there probably could have been other people I found suspicious at the time I could have voted - but I didn't choose to use my vote that way. Currently, the vote is staying for your vote on me.
This is not solving, by the way. This is when OMGUS is a scumtell.
@Grapefruit
Who's xequalsy read was the most convincing?
The only one that stuck out was Newcombs, but that is just due to me leaning on his mega post to catch up. Honestly they're all pretty much the same. He didn't have a good entry and his recent defense has been underwhelming. I haven't really seen any dissenting opinions on that.
Toms meta of Iso in Post #348 does very little for me but his point about Isos read on Pozzai looking bad regardless of Pozzais alignment is one that I can follow fairly well and agree with to a certain extent. I find the way that Toms going about explaining that to come across very town.
I don't like Isos reaction towards Tom in Post #350 at all, it's fairly obvious why Tom and others including myself want him to comment more on either a) his his town read on Pozzai and/or b) His thoughts on others scum reads on Pozzai. Doing neither and questioning why Toms hung up on one of his top scum reads makes very little sense as town. Problem is I also find it to be an attitude that makes little sense for scum to take as well so not entirely sure what to make of it overall, probably will take a look at a game or two of his and see if this is just a playstyle thing.
X=Y's analysis of his own wagon inside Post #353 doesn't come across as natural at all, the entire paragraph about Typhon to effectively end up with a fairly null read on him but still to progress stating that he thinks the scum on his wagon is Iso/Delphine doesn't add up at all. That said I don't mind his analysis on me and think the "Was making quick 2 minute rough notes in my QT and forgot his name" section inside the post actually comes across as town, I don't think it's impossible for scum to fake but I think it's something newer scum members wouldn't think to do. I disagree with a lot of his analysis on Pozzai inside Post #354 but on a skim I can follow his thought process for parts of it -- I want to go over this when I'm in a proper headspace though*
I really like Newcombs attitude to Iso inside Post #356, the frustration that comes across while discussing the Grapes reads comes across as very genuine as does his frustration with Iso about the lack o elaboration in the X=Y scum read inside Post #361 feeling a lot better with Newcomb being town now.
@Newcomb - I'll raincheck the elaborated Tom town read until tomorrow; think I'll be able to go into my read and thought process clearest then and want to do that read justice given he's one of my strongest twon reads. I can understand your hesitation re; Grapes better now so thanks for that. Understand the Delphine read stength more now but still disagree re; the "re-reading initial game" part, I really make nothing of it, I think she's a player that relys on meta fairly heavily and thus think she's capable to do 'meta research' as scum. I agree with Tom more about Isos read on Pozzai making sense in an Iso!Scum and Pozzai!Town world (Though I think the odds we're living in that is super super small), I've seen dozens of games where scum have town read a player about to be mslynched while barely defending them.
I like Nachos pop in analysis on the Tom/Iso situation inside Post #367; I don't exactly share the same town read he does on Iso (Gun to Tammys head asking me Isos alignment I'd not be able to answer, rip Tammy) but I think Iso's point about the "4 town" and the confidence exerted on his X=Y push is enough to nullify most of the concerns I have with his lack of elaboration on Pozzai and reaction to Iso. All that said I'd have liked a lot more content and reads from Nacho on other players; the fact his votes still on me while having me as town is a concern.
Think Newcombs reach out post to Nacho to get reads from him inside Post #369 is a decent town-tell.
I need to go over Grapes reads post in Post #373 again when I'm fully concentrated* but the inclusion of a 'read/reasoning' section on himself is ugly. The "I'll join Tom lynching you" section of the Iso read feels really out of plac and the read on Ophidia is something I have difficulty following at the moment, the rest of the reads I have little issue with so far.
So quick TLDR (But plz read); town read on Tom is continuing to strengthen, feel much more confident that Newcomb is town now and want to focus on X=Y and Grapes posts when I wake up. Pretty conflicted on what to make of Iso overall, think some meta reading there might help. Still think Pozzais scum here.
@Nacho
Do you see any effort from Iso to get rolling in this game?
@Grapefruit
Who's xequalsy read was the most convincing?
Not really. The parts where it seemed to be town Iso last night where he seemed to be getting annoyed that people were disrupting his approach; reminded me in an offhanded way of in the Invitation was Azrael was pushing his lynch.
Do you understand why I'm approaching Iso in this way?
Newcomb, my scumreads right now center around X=Y and Pozzai. I'm not really sure who rounds out the last slot; there's a few possibilities that it could be but none that I feel particularly great about. Lack of content lately is mostly a cause of not really having a ton of time lately; I've been keeping up on my phone when possible and trying to make fly by posts but Curse lags incredibly hard on mobile and I won't be able to channel you and Regfan properly until the weekend.
Town
Grape: I'm town despite there being some doubts now because of my peaceing out of the thread.
Why do you feel the need to sum up your standing within the thread?
So I do not like 209 and 211 from Typh despite him echoing my scum reads. I dislike his picking apart of X=Y's entrance which felt fairly normal despite not voting in the first post. I also hate using an activity tell this early (or even at all).
@Grapefruit
Who's xequalsy read was the most convincing?
The only one that stuck out was Newcombs, but that is just due to me leaning on his mega post to catch up. Honestly they're all pretty much the same. He didn't have a good entry and his recent defense has been underwhelming. I haven't really seen any dissenting opinions on that.
I guess what I'm currently trying to understand is why your play style seems to be a bit passive this game. Like the vote you made after I asked you to put down a vote, or the fact that I had to specifically ask why you made your vote on me in particular over anyone else in particular. I've also noticed the vast bulk of your posts is you answering other people's questions. (the other ~third is you prodding people with questions)
I'd have to go back and re-read some of your other games to figure out if it's just your usual play style, but it seems to me you're just scum who is happy to mostly coast along atm.
the entire paragraph about Typhon to effectively end up with a fairly null read on him but still to progress stating that he thinks the scum on his wagon is Iso/Delphine doesn't add up at all.
Eh, I don't see why it doesn't follow:
I have a lean town read on Typhon over other things he did, but I still have concerns about his vote (the way he voted). I've shelved those for now, since he had to go without responding to my answers to his questions. Meanwhile, I think there was probably only one scum at the time on the wagon, and those were more likely to be Delphine/Iso who were much more scummier than a lean town read.
If it wasn't clear, I think he's probably town being pushed on awkwardly by scum!X=Y.
He just made me sad >:
*Patpat* Don't mind me, I'm just a crabby Mafia veteran.
If it wasn't clear, Nacho's "delightful" personality shines through far more when he's town. He's clearly enjoying himself and he has an incredibly hard time faking that as scum.
I don't like that tom is pretending he hasn't played Mafia with me, before.
How so?
And why do you keep responding to the least important part of things?
You're pretending you don't know the way I play Mafia and I think you're looking for easy pushes. You know full well that my playstyle is extremely offputting, especially to people that have either never played with me or have not done so in a long time. Therefore, because I'm stubborn and lazy, it's extremely easy to dredge up anti-Iso sentiments in any game where that is a fair chunk of the playerbase.
Aside from not actually talking to X=Y or elaborating on my Pozzai read, please advise me on what you feel I haven't sufficiently addressed.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Newcomb: Has a stronger case of my reservations on Regfan. 314 is a massive post and helped me greatly in catching up, but I come out of not finding him giving anywhere for the thread to go (his scum teams at the end aren't helpful, and his vote is beyond consensus). He is providing a ton of helpful information and analysis, but I'm not seeing a ton of effort to build consensus and push the gamestate forward. Like he keeps butting heads with Iso which is getting nowhere and just aruging a read that isn't going anywhere because the player they are aruging about is v/la. Walls are great and memes are funny, but I'm not seeing enough here.
@Vaimes
@tom
@Regfan
@Nacho
Talk to me about this, from a mindset perspective. I actually have some very specific things I'd like to say about this, but I don't want your responses to be responding to my response, if that makes sense. I want to hear your thoughts unfiltered through mine.
X=Y's analysis of his own wagon inside Post #353 doesn't come across as natural at all, the entire paragraph about Typhon to effectively end up with a fairly null read on him but still to progress stating that he thinks the scum on his wagon is Iso/Delphine doesn't add up at all. That said I don't mind his analysis on me and think the "Was making quick 2 minute rough notes in my QT and forgot his name" section inside the post actually comes across as town, I don't think it's impossible for scum to fake but I think it's something newer scum members wouldn't think to do. I disagree with a lot of his analysis on Pozzai inside Post #354 but on a skim I can follow his thought process for parts of it -- I want to go over this when I'm in a proper headspace though*
I am interested in where you're going with this. There is a degree to which xequalsy feels too consensus-y. Like, the first person to express a scumread on him was me, pointing out that comment of his to tom and Grapefruit that looked like "politely inserting himself between two town." Which I poked you on, and you agreed with and expanded a bit. Everything since then has just been variations on a theme - or suspicion through PoE, like Vaimes, Nacho, and Iso are doing. (Though Iso's kind of his own case.) The general lynchshape of how this wagon has developed, the lack of any real counter outside of Pozzai just doesn't fill me with confidence that this is a hit here. At the same time, it's like. Game could just be that easy? Thoughts?
Newcomb, my scumreads right now center around X=Y and Pozzai. I'm not really sure who rounds out the last slot; there's a few possibilities that it could be but none that I feel particularly great about. Lack of content lately is mostly a cause of not really having a ton of time lately; I've been keeping up on my phone when possible and trying to make fly by posts but Curse lags incredibly hard on mobile and I won't be able to channel you and Regfan properly until the weekend.
I'm going to hold you to that weekend thing.
When you get a chance, talk to me about the most compelling point you see about both X=Y and Pozzai. Like, if the elevator doors were closing on me, and you had about 10 seconds to frantically scream why you thought each were mafia, what's the essence, what's the key?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You're pretending you don't know the way I play Mafia and I think you're looking for easy pushes. You know full well that my playstyle is extremely offputting, especially to people that have either never played with me or have not done so in a long time. Therefore, because I'm stubborn and lazy, it's extremely easy to dredge up anti-Iso sentiments in any game where that is a fair chunk of the playerbase.
Aside from not actually talking to X=Y or elaborating on my Pozzai read, please advise me on what you feel I haven't sufficiently addressed.
Where am I doing that? I'm fully aware of the way you play mafia, and you being offputting has nothing to do with it.
You have insufficiently addressed literally everything though. So, you know, do stuff.
@Newcomb
I find it a little strange that Grapefruit mentioned using your big post to catch up a couple times but isn't actually townreading you. Beyond that, I can see how he got there. I'm not familiar with the "not advancing the gamestate" scumtell, but you have tended towards commentary mode. It's got some shades of looking for a reason to push you, but I'm not sure why he would even want to do that as scum. I want to say it's townie paranoia that he's being misled by a charismatic mafioso, but it's unclear how much of that is confirmation bias.
@Nacho - Happy to wait until the weekend for you to get to your reads/thoughts, would like you to elaborate on your 'scum possibilities' even if you don't feel great about them. Glad to hear the issues viewing this site on the mobile isn't just my phone being bad but a sitewide thing.
@X=Y - My issue with your analysis of your wagon is that while you may have mentioned a town read on Typhon at the start of your paragraph about him the way you went into it made it seem more like you have him as null. And having him as roughly null and saying you think the scum is x/y instead doesn't run smoothly.
@Newcomb re; Grapes section on you in Post #373, the section where he accuses your vote of being beyond consensus while ignoring that you were one of the first few people to comment on X=Y being scum to accuse you in the very same post of not doing anything to build towards a consensus is something I'm struggling to grasp. I can understand his point re; the scum teams you listed given they're not exactly a typical way to state reads or stances. All that said I don't even think his read on you is the one I'm having the biggest problem with inside his post, I really did not like him commenting on himself and his read on Iso comes across as attempting to use an appeal to fear against one of his stonger town reads which is a huge concern.
@Newcomb - I'l get to the Tom elaborated read in a few hours, probably going to try an get a few more hours sleep in a sec; also want to go over X=Y's post about Pozzai then. I found X=Y's section of "When populating a reads list in a QT I forgot one persons that which isn't a good sign" to be something I see rarely faked from newer scum players, it's certainly not impossible to fake and something I've actually done myself as mafia before so it's weakish in that regard but the way he stated it felt genuine (rather than thrown or overly focused on). There's a lot about his play that I don't like and think makes plenty of sense from scum but I'm still much more confident that Pozzai is maifa here and the difficulty to get people to move to Pozzai in comparison to X=Y is a problem. I mean it'd be great if it was that easy as both of them being scum (Would mean the odds of this being #16 town wins in a row is actually very high) and it possibly is but the fact that there's no one really pushing elsewhere and that most people seem content as is doesn't bode well.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vaimes is not happening toDay; if you had sole control over the lynch but couldn't lynch Vaimes, who you got?
I am not trying to lynch Vaimes. His behavior seems town enough to me, as he is poking people with questions and is a universal townread at this point in the game.
I just can't find one definite person to vote for right now. Pozzai, reg and x=y all seem to be good candidates.
Ok, First a couple of questions for clarification.
What is a POE?
@Everyone on the pozzai wagon: Could you please clarify why you voted for pozzai? Why is he especially scummy?
@Iso: Can you point out the specific post(s) in which I interacted with x=y? I am unable to fin it and I don't remember interacting with him.
It seems that most people scumread me for changing my playstyle and act defensively.
I changed my playstyle mainly because in every game prior to this game, I basically did something absurdly unreasonable for a scum and got a universal townread, and then float on top of that townread and rely on other town members, which did not really work well for me. Because many of my own scumreads are accurate, but the wagons that I follow are not. I want to get better in forum mafia, and solve this game on my own. Therefore, I rejected that strategy and try to get down on the ground and be like others and actually actively try to gain towncred and find the scum. This is why my playstyle changed so drastically from my past games.
My passiveness is mostly caused by my initial confusion about the game state. In the previous games that I played in, I organize the game into different sections, each with its own wagons and information. This is the way I understand each game of mafia. However, in the first couple of days in this game, people were doing all kinds of stuff instead of focusing on one/two topics to discuss. So I can't find a hole to poke at or something to cling onto. Also, each post is longer and takes more effort to comprehend. As the dust settles, however, I now get a clearer picture of the game and is much less confused about the game state.
I forgot who asked it, but here is a question that I did not answer yet: Why do you need to be told to read people in-depth? Don't you care about catching scum?
I do care about catching scum, it is just that I need a direction to do so. Moreover, I can also get a read on the people asking the questions based on what kind of questions they ask.
Newcomb, if there was an elevator closing on you I'd tell you to hold your arm out because the sensors on those things are pretty good and even if it tries to close on you it's not like it would actually hurt a whole lot.
If there were 10 minutes until deadline, the Pozzai case wouldn't change; the only things I've read from his slot are the things at the very beginning. The X=Y thing is based on his big wall on Pozzai which didn't really seem like legitimate analysis; I suppose I'd pick it apart more thoroughly if deadline wasn't so soon but I don't like the repeated mentions of having to understand his play better before reading him because he doesn't make that comment about anyone else and I don't like how the analysis by the end of it feels so... weak? tentative? blah? I didn't like his push on Delphine, particularly the "why haven't you voted in seven pages?" bit and extended questioning after that. Recently, I didn't like his response to Iso's vote; the piece where he went "I'm voting you because you're voting me" especially because it seemed hollow and fake, didn't have the same bite as a townie who thought scum was voting them in a bull***** way would have.
Regfan, I am like Tammy in that I vote when I vote, even if it means I don't have my vote on my top scumread sometimes. I doubt that my vote on you is putting you in danger of being lynched and I'm nowhere near ready for day to end and am afraid voting my top scumread will balloon momentum against him to a point where he's claiming before I want him to claim and thus leaving vote on you until I'm caught up and know what I'm doing.
@Newbcomb - As promised, my read on Tom; I liked Toms prodding of Typhon and yourself in Post #56, I really liked him putting in the time to hunt for my post in the Westeroes game to show to Vaimes in Post #105. Ignoring the fact that I love the playstyle and way of solving the game inside his Post #280 I really like most of the reads and reasoning behind them, very much mirrored where my head was at when he made it with most of them. I think his interaction with Iso about Pozzai inside Post #296 -> Post #339 -> Post #348->Post #363 is a thought process that makes a lot of sense and really comes across as he believes what he's saying. Pretty much I can follow what he's doing and his play / questioning comes across as him actually trying to solve this.
I am not trying to lynch Vaimes. His behavior seems town enough to me, as he is poking people with questions and is a universal townread at this point in the game.
I just can't find one definite person to vote for right now. Pozzai, reg and x=y all seem to be good candidates.
You're going to have to elaborate on this for me because this just looks like you looking at the vote count ~5 posts above yours and stating 3 of the 4 leading wagons names rather than you actually having a scum read on all three of us. So run me through why you think each of us individually are 'good vote candidates' and how you don't seem to have a particular preference for one over the other. Also PoE = Process of elimination.
The "Iso where did I interact with X=Y" section of Ophidias Post #399 actually comes across as very scummy, would like others thoughts on it but it seems overly-defensive especially pre-flip. Don't really follow the 'change of playstyle' explanation inside the thread either -- the whole post actually makes very little sense to me and dislike the fact that he's stepping back again and waiting for questions before offering reads and thoughts.
@Nacho - Did I just read you compare yourself to Tammy voluntarily? The **** are you doing, you're ruining my chance to ***** on her. But fair enough; understand the lack of vote movement more now. What's your thoughts on Ophidias recent posts - does it impact your town read on him at all / if so why/why not?
Just going to pop in and say that I commented on myself because I was upset at people accusing me of falling off as coasting. I would have loved nothing more than to have had time to play mafia but I didn't and that influenced peoples reads and I had a hissy fit over it. Deal with it.
@X=Y that was poor wording. I had no issues with your page 1. I had massive issues with they way you stepped between tom and myself. I mistakenly called that an entrance in the second post.
So in my continued quest to read Ophi 399 strikes me more as town Ophi even as I can say it would be the first thing scum!Ophi would do to try to clear himself. I really like that Ophi is continuing to figure out the gamestate and the latter attempt to clear is NAI I think.
Re possible Iso fear mongering, this is town Iso early game. Late game town Iso plays differently. If that change doesn't happen Iso is scum, but right now this feels very strongly like town Iso.
I don't really understand why asking Iso what interaction he was referring to is "overdefensive"; if Iso was talking about an interaction I had with Newcomb and i didn't remember and couldn't find an interaction with Newcomb then he'll yeah I would question it; wouldn't you?
I liked that Ophidia talked about trying a different style because he keeps clearing himself in absurd ways as town and instead ends up feeling like a town decoration as opposed to someone solving the game and being useful, felt like a genuine sentiment and I'm not sure that he would try to use it to clear himself as scum.
So in my continued quest to read Ophi 399 strikes me more as town Ophi even as I can say it would be the first thing scum!Ophi would do to try to clear himself. I really like that Ophi is continuing to figure out the gamestate and the latter attempt to clear is NAI I think.
Can you elaborate on what part of Ophis #399 you thought was him 'trying to figure out the gamestate' because I see him mentioning that he wants to scumuhunt but not actually doing it at all, the question about people elaborating on their Pozzai read is super lazy in that it's only directed to two people both of which have gone into the read in detail throughout the thread several times, the Iso one is a self-serving question and the rest is just about his own meta. So show me what I'm missing there?
Thanks for your explanation re; the Iso part, that makes sense. Not really a fan of your explanation behind mentioning yourself, it's not as if you were garnering votes or anything at the time.
@Nacho - 1) I think the fact that Ophidia is focusing re; his questioning on why Iso considers X=Y/himself a scum-team rather than actually scumhunting is problematic especially given that Iso never stated that his issue was on Ophidias end, could be merely how X=Y's treated or commented on Ophidia. 2) The problem I'm having with his meta conversation is that if his sole issue in the past was not actually 'solving the game himself' and he's saying he's intentionally changed it up to do so this game I don't really see any attempt at doing it -- his 3 scum reads are 3 of the 4 leading wagons, his reasoning behind them are effectively non-existent. It doesn't come across as genuine scumhunting.
@Regfan the first half of Ophi's is what I was pointing to as solving the gamestate. Basically until proven otherwise Ophi is someone who plays the game at level 1. If you are taking things at face value those questions read to me as towny. It's possible I'm underestimating Ophidia but until proven otherwise I'm okay with a light town read on Ophi right now.
Ok, First a couple of questions for clarification.
What is a POE?
@Everyone on the pozzai wagon: Could you please clarify why you voted for pozzai? Why is he especially scummy?
@Iso: Can you point out the specific post(s) in which I interacted with x=y? I am unable to fin it and I don't remember interacting with him.
@Grapes, are you talking about the above 2 questions from him? If not quote for me what you're referring to. If so you're going to have to go elaborate more than "I think he only does Level 1 scumhunting" because neither seem like scumhunting; the first question is asking two people to explain reads that have been gone over 4-5 times throughout the thread and the second comes across as him trying to defend himself rather than get a read on Iso.
Reading Ophidia's 399 again, especially the part about dividing the game into groups, got me thinking. Not exactly about groups, but pairs that need figured out.
Iso/Pozzai
Xequalsy/typhon
Either of these pairs could be w/w (very unlikely both, setup-wise). Both of them could be w/v and resolving them should be pretty key. If there's 3 or even 4 town in those 4 names, uh oh....
Xequalsy and Typhon seem moderately likely to be w/w. I don't think xequalsy/iso are particularly likely teammates,
@Regfan it's not so much scumhunting as game solving. Like I said I have only seen Ophi play the game at level 1 and to me these two lines in particular stick out as a town trying to get a grasp on the game at level 1. (especially for a player who has mentioned several times they don't like to read the thread...)
@Everyone on the pozzai wagon: Could you please clarify why you voted for pozzai? Why is he especially scummy?
This one is confusion and trying to get a grasp on where the game is. Sure I'd like to see more initiative but Ophi isn't casting any doubt on the reads or trying to defend pozzai here just trying to get a picture of what's happening.
@Iso: Can you point out the specific post(s) in which I interacted with x=y? I am unable to fin it and I don't remember interacting with him.
And the same here.
This is a meta read because I think scum Ophi isn't as patient to just sit back and ask for clarifications on reads, and I think town Ophi 100% would when they are trying to figure out the game state. It's not scum hunting but it's reasonably towny.
Was kind of hoping certain people would be around more today. I'm heading out drinking shortly but will probably check this before I go to bed when I get home (Can't promise that I'll be fully articulate), otherwise I have most of tomorrow free.
@Tom - Generally not a fan of dividing the game into 'pairs' and focusing in them since it can lead to pretty bad positions if any grouping is ever T/T. Rather just focus on getting reads normally and lynching my strongest scum read which at the moment is still Pozzai. What's your thoughts on X=Y's Post #353 and Post #354 particularly the latter one, I've gone over his post there several times today trying to see if I can buy and follow the entire thought process and read from him and constantly get caught up with the fact the parts of Pozzais ISO that he seems to be focusing more on conversing about are the parts that are less important, the parts that I actually find scummy from Pozzai he barely comments on. Would like to hear an outsiders point of view on it.
@Grapes - I still don't read either of those questions as game solving? I might need to actually take a look at his meta to understand where you're coming from with it because both questions feel very shallow.
@Von - Sure, go for it. Only thing I won't believe from you is that you like Tammy.
@Regfan
The most disconcerting part of that first post is when he tells iso he was already wrong once but doesn't seem to be talking about the scumread on him... I don't at all like his comments on Delphine in that post. As for Pozzai, his read there his so hedgey as to have no actual meaning. He mentions some things and figures out how they can be null and somehow ends up with a townread. I'm not really buying it either. I haven't talked about xequalsy much, but I'm certainly willing to lynch there if this Iso thing doesn't get any traction.
Talk to me about where your head's at, broadly.
Of the people you've called town, who's your strongest read at the moment? Of the people you've cast suspicion on, do you believe any of them are scum strongly enough that you want to actually lynch them? IIRC your vote's on Reg. Assuming that's not an actual vote? If deadline was in an hour, where would you vote?
Do you think that if we swing through Pozzai, xequalsy, and Ophidia we stand a decent chance of hitting two wolves there?
What do you think about the gamestate in general?
I'm just kind of firing off general questions at this point; you know what I'm asking you. Especially in light of your "it doesn't feel like one of those "everyone is super town" games" comment. I don't need an ordered list or anything, but I'd like something a little more focused than what you've been putting out.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Alright, well, you do you. I was just trying to say that I don't think that expectation holds up, at all, in this game. Like, if you're not going to be transparent about your hypothetical xequalsy read, I have no real reason to treat it like it exists. But I'm also suuuuuuper not interested in trying to drag it out of you. Like I said, that's not the game I signed up to play.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm just going to do a mini version of my full reads list rather than trying to respond to everything.
Town
Grape: I'm town despite there being some doubts now because of my peaceing out of the thread.
Town Reads
Vaimes: I have a much easier time seeing everything Vaimes is doing from a town POV. He is asking relavent questions, pushing but not tunneling, and seems like he's Vaimes from his town games I've read.
Iso: This feels very much like town can't be bothered to put any effort into the game Iso who is assuming he'll figure it out later. His actions are a bit scummy but his tone screams town Iso to me. @Iso, Hi I'm town and hope you find more time to invest in this game going forward. But if you can't I'm going to be very happy to join tom and lynch you, this read is projecting future behavior.
Town Leans
Regfan: I don't have a ton here but I really liked 205. What worries me here and more elsewhere is the lack of forward thrust in his posts. There is a lot of "here's a wall of thoughts reach your own conclusions and town read me because this post was long." I mostly see the town POV on the posts like his flurry around 205 so Reg is in the town leans for now.
tomsloger: I think I was just wrong here and I like the way he's pushed Iso even if I'm town reading Iso.
Null
Nacho, DelphiBlue, and Typhrous have collective left no impression on me past RVS and that is my own fault. I am ignoring them in the abbrevaited reread because I want to focus on people I have opinions on while I have time to post but I will dig in as soon as I have more time. (minus hating Typhorus' entrance which I still hate)
Newcomb: Has a stronger case of my reservations on Regfan. 314 is a massive post and helped me greatly in catching up, but I come out of not finding him giving anywhere for the thread to go (his scum teams at the end aren't helpful, and his vote is beyond consensus). He is providing a ton of helpful information and analysis, but I'm not seeing a ton of effort to build consensus and push the gamestate forward. Like he keeps butting heads with Iso which is getting nowhere and just aruging a read that isn't going anywhere because the player they are aruging about is v/la. Walls are great and memes are funny, but I'm not seeing enough here.
Pozzai: I don't get the consensus scum read. Pozzai is another person I really need to reread, but I liked his entrance.
Scum Leans
Ophi: So this is a weird one for me. Ophi's tone throughout this game has screamed scum to me. In Bare Bones and elsewhere Ophi has been relatively willing to go along with consensus and shown a huge desire to survive as long as possible. Here Ophidia hasn't shown concern about surviving later into the game and has been willing to engage in banter which is new. Which makes me think they are actively looking to change the way they are playing because they have a reason to, eg rolling scum. That said their interactions with Newcomb come across as so earnestly towny that I'm not super invested in this tonal read. It just feels like a different player in tone, but not necessarily in play, which makes me think Ophi isn't town.
Xequalsy: I'm sheeping everyone's reads here but I see them too.
I think we will hit 1 scum between Ophi and X=Y and am happy to lynch either today.
I ran out of time a bit because life is busy right now and I'm sorry I couldn't link more or give any reads on Nacho, Delph, or Typh. I will try to rectify that going forward but no promises in the short term.
Vote: xequalsy *Furiously crosses fingers that this vote works*
And I hate this quote from delphi
This has nothing to do with Vaimes being upset at Iso. And is just feels like mudslinging to bring up here.
How so?
And why do you keep responding to the least important part of things?
Do you see any effort from Iso to get rolling in this game?
@Grapefruit
Who's xequalsy read was the most convincing?
This is not solving, by the way. This is when OMGUS is a scumtell.
The only one that stuck out was Newcombs, but that is just due to me leaning on his mega post to catch up. Honestly they're all pretty much the same. He didn't have a good entry and his recent defense has been underwhelming. I haven't really seen any dissenting opinions on that.
Toms meta of Iso in Post #348 does very little for me but his point about Isos read on Pozzai looking bad regardless of Pozzais alignment is one that I can follow fairly well and agree with to a certain extent. I find the way that Toms going about explaining that to come across very town.
I don't like Isos reaction towards Tom in Post #350 at all, it's fairly obvious why Tom and others including myself want him to comment more on either a) his his town read on Pozzai and/or b) His thoughts on others scum reads on Pozzai. Doing neither and questioning why Toms hung up on one of his top scum reads makes very little sense as town. Problem is I also find it to be an attitude that makes little sense for scum to take as well so not entirely sure what to make of it overall, probably will take a look at a game or two of his and see if this is just a playstyle thing.
X=Y's analysis of his own wagon inside Post #353 doesn't come across as natural at all, the entire paragraph about Typhon to effectively end up with a fairly null read on him but still to progress stating that he thinks the scum on his wagon is Iso/Delphine doesn't add up at all. That said I don't mind his analysis on me and think the "Was making quick 2 minute rough notes in my QT and forgot his name" section inside the post actually comes across as town, I don't think it's impossible for scum to fake but I think it's something newer scum members wouldn't think to do. I disagree with a lot of his analysis on Pozzai inside Post #354 but on a skim I can follow his thought process for parts of it -- I want to go over this when I'm in a proper headspace though*
I really like Newcombs attitude to Iso inside Post #356, the frustration that comes across while discussing the Grapes reads comes across as very genuine as does his frustration with Iso about the lack o elaboration in the X=Y scum read inside Post #361 feeling a lot better with Newcomb being town now.
@Newcomb - I'll raincheck the elaborated Tom town read until tomorrow; think I'll be able to go into my read and thought process clearest then and want to do that read justice given he's one of my strongest twon reads. I can understand your hesitation re; Grapes better now so thanks for that. Understand the Delphine read stength more now but still disagree re; the "re-reading initial game" part, I really make nothing of it, I think she's a player that relys on meta fairly heavily and thus think she's capable to do 'meta research' as scum. I agree with Tom more about Isos read on Pozzai making sense in an Iso!Scum and Pozzai!Town world (Though I think the odds we're living in that is super super small), I've seen dozens of games where scum have town read a player about to be mslynched while barely defending them.
I like Nachos pop in analysis on the Tom/Iso situation inside Post #367; I don't exactly share the same town read he does on Iso (Gun to Tammys head asking me Isos alignment I'd not be able to answer, rip Tammy) but I think Iso's point about the "4 town" and the confidence exerted on his X=Y push is enough to nullify most of the concerns I have with his lack of elaboration on Pozzai and reaction to Iso. All that said I'd have liked a lot more content and reads from Nacho on other players; the fact his votes still on me while having me as town is a concern.
Think Newcombs reach out post to Nacho to get reads from him inside Post #369 is a decent town-tell.
I need to go over Grapes reads post in Post #373 again when I'm fully concentrated* but the inclusion of a 'read/reasoning' section on himself is ugly. The "I'll join Tom lynching you" section of the Iso read feels really out of plac and the read on Ophidia is something I have difficulty following at the moment, the rest of the reads I have little issue with so far.
So quick TLDR (But plz read); town read on Tom is continuing to strengthen, feel much more confident that Newcomb is town now and want to focus on X=Y and Grapes posts when I wake up. Pretty conflicted on what to make of Iso overall, think some meta reading there might help. Still think Pozzais scum here.
* - Reminder to myself to reread.
Alight heading to bed, hopefully I can get on tomorrow while someone is actually here.
Not really. The parts where it seemed to be town Iso last night where he seemed to be getting annoyed that people were disrupting his approach; reminded me in an offhanded way of in the Invitation was Azrael was pushing his lynch.
Do you understand why I'm approaching Iso in this way?
Why do you feel the need to sum up your standing within the thread?
What changed between the two posts?
I guess what I'm currently trying to understand is why your play style seems to be a bit passive this game. Like the vote you made after I asked you to put down a vote, or the fact that I had to specifically ask why you made your vote on me in particular over anyone else in particular. I've also noticed the vast bulk of your posts is you answering other people's questions. (the other ~third is you prodding people with questions)
I'd have to go back and re-read some of your other games to figure out if it's just your usual play style, but it seems to me you're just scum who is happy to mostly coast along atm.
Letting himself get so easily distracted is exactly why I find his play here scummy. TownIso slaps it aside and keeps doing his thing.
@xequalsy
If you ranked who was coasting the hardest in this game, would Delph be in the top half?
Eh, I don't see why it doesn't follow:
I have a lean town read on Typhon over other things he did, but I still have concerns about his vote (the way he voted). I've shelved those for now, since he had to go without responding to my answers to his questions. Meanwhile, I think there was probably only one scum at the time on the wagon, and those were more likely to be Delphine/Iso who were much more scummier than a lean town read.
Just behind the people who had RL reasons for being away, yes.
Iso - 2 (xequalsy, tomsloger)
Pozzai - 2 (Vaimes, Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 5 (Typhrous, Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, Grapefruit21)
Not Voting - 0 ()
The PHONE stops RINGING and goes to VOICEMAIL.
"You know who this is. Think you, that simply not picking up will prevent the return of Ra-"
You DELETE the VOICEMAIL.
*Patpat* Don't mind me, I'm just a crabby Mafia veteran.
If it wasn't clear, Nacho's "delightful" personality shines through far more when he's town. He's clearly enjoying himself and he has an incredibly hard time faking that as scum.
Does that make sense?
You're pretending you don't know the way I play Mafia and I think you're looking for easy pushes. You know full well that my playstyle is extremely offputting, especially to people that have either never played with me or have not done so in a long time. Therefore, because I'm stubborn and lazy, it's extremely easy to dredge up anti-Iso sentiments in any game where that is a fair chunk of the playerbase.
Aside from not actually talking to X=Y or elaborating on my Pozzai read, please advise me on what you feel I haven't sufficiently addressed.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Vaimes
@tom
@Regfan
@Nacho
Talk to me about this, from a mindset perspective. I actually have some very specific things I'd like to say about this, but I don't want your responses to be responding to my response, if that makes sense. I want to hear your thoughts unfiltered through mine.
I am interested in where you're going with this. There is a degree to which xequalsy feels too consensus-y. Like, the first person to express a scumread on him was me, pointing out that comment of his to tom and Grapefruit that looked like "politely inserting himself between two town." Which I poked you on, and you agreed with and expanded a bit. Everything since then has just been variations on a theme - or suspicion through PoE, like Vaimes, Nacho, and Iso are doing. (Though Iso's kind of his own case.) The general lynchshape of how this wagon has developed, the lack of any real counter outside of Pozzai just doesn't fill me with confidence that this is a hit here. At the same time, it's like. Game could just be that easy? Thoughts?
I'm going to hold you to that weekend thing.
When you get a chance, talk to me about the most compelling point you see about both X=Y and Pozzai. Like, if the elevator doors were closing on me, and you had about 10 seconds to frantically scream why you thought each were mafia, what's the essence, what's the key?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Where am I doing that? I'm fully aware of the way you play mafia, and you being offputting has nothing to do with it.
You have insufficiently addressed literally everything though. So, you know, do stuff.
@Newcomb
I find it a little strange that Grapefruit mentioned using your big post to catch up a couple times but isn't actually townreading you. Beyond that, I can see how he got there. I'm not familiar with the "not advancing the gamestate" scumtell, but you have tended towards commentary mode. It's got some shades of looking for a reason to push you, but I'm not sure why he would even want to do that as scum. I want to say it's townie paranoia that he's being misled by a charismatic mafioso, but it's unclear how much of that is confirmation bias.
@X=Y - My issue with your analysis of your wagon is that while you may have mentioned a town read on Typhon at the start of your paragraph about him the way you went into it made it seem more like you have him as null. And having him as roughly null and saying you think the scum is x/y instead doesn't run smoothly.
@Newcomb re; Grapes section on you in Post #373, the section where he accuses your vote of being beyond consensus while ignoring that you were one of the first few people to comment on X=Y being scum to accuse you in the very same post of not doing anything to build towards a consensus is something I'm struggling to grasp. I can understand his point re; the scum teams you listed given they're not exactly a typical way to state reads or stances. All that said I don't even think his read on you is the one I'm having the biggest problem with inside his post, I really did not like him commenting on himself and his read on Iso comes across as attempting to use an appeal to fear against one of his stonger town reads which is a huge concern.
@Newcomb - I'l get to the Tom elaborated read in a few hours, probably going to try an get a few more hours sleep in a sec; also want to go over X=Y's post about Pozzai then. I found X=Y's section of "When populating a reads list in a QT I forgot one persons that which isn't a good sign" to be something I see rarely faked from newer scum players, it's certainly not impossible to fake and something I've actually done myself as mafia before so it's weakish in that regard but the way he stated it felt genuine (rather than thrown or overly focused on). There's a lot about his play that I don't like and think makes plenty of sense from scum but I'm still much more confident that Pozzai is maifa here and the difficulty to get people to move to Pozzai in comparison to X=Y is a problem. I mean it'd be great if it was that easy as both of them being scum (Would mean the odds of this being #16 town wins in a row is actually very high) and it possibly is but the fact that there's no one really pushing elsewhere and that most people seem content as is doesn't bode well.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I am not trying to lynch Vaimes. His behavior seems town enough to me, as he is poking people with questions and is a universal townread at this point in the game.
I just can't find one definite person to vote for right now. Pozzai, reg and x=y all seem to be good candidates.
What is a POE?
@Everyone on the pozzai wagon: Could you please clarify why you voted for pozzai? Why is he especially scummy?
@Iso: Can you point out the specific post(s) in which I interacted with x=y? I am unable to fin it and I don't remember interacting with him.
It seems that most people scumread me for changing my playstyle and act defensively.
I changed my playstyle mainly because in every game prior to this game, I basically did something absurdly unreasonable for a scum and got a universal townread, and then float on top of that townread and rely on other town members, which did not really work well for me. Because many of my own scumreads are accurate, but the wagons that I follow are not. I want to get better in forum mafia, and solve this game on my own. Therefore, I rejected that strategy and try to get down on the ground and be like others and actually actively try to gain towncred and find the scum. This is why my playstyle changed so drastically from my past games.
My passiveness is mostly caused by my initial confusion about the game state. In the previous games that I played in, I organize the game into different sections, each with its own wagons and information. This is the way I understand each game of mafia. However, in the first couple of days in this game, people were doing all kinds of stuff instead of focusing on one/two topics to discuss. So I can't find a hole to poke at or something to cling onto. Also, each post is longer and takes more effort to comprehend. As the dust settles, however, I now get a clearer picture of the game and is much less confused about the game state.
I forgot who asked it, but here is a question that I did not answer yet: Why do you need to be told to read people in-depth? Don't you care about catching scum?
I do care about catching scum, it is just that I need a direction to do so. Moreover, I can also get a read on the people asking the questions based on what kind of questions they ask.
If there were 10 minutes until deadline, the Pozzai case wouldn't change; the only things I've read from his slot are the things at the very beginning. The X=Y thing is based on his big wall on Pozzai which didn't really seem like legitimate analysis; I suppose I'd pick it apart more thoroughly if deadline wasn't so soon but I don't like the repeated mentions of having to understand his play better before reading him because he doesn't make that comment about anyone else and I don't like how the analysis by the end of it feels so... weak? tentative? blah? I didn't like his push on Delphine, particularly the "why haven't you voted in seven pages?" bit and extended questioning after that. Recently, I didn't like his response to Iso's vote; the piece where he went "I'm voting you because you're voting me" especially because it seemed hollow and fake, didn't have the same bite as a townie who thought scum was voting them in a bull***** way would have.
You're going to have to elaborate on this for me because this just looks like you looking at the vote count ~5 posts above yours and stating 3 of the 4 leading wagons names rather than you actually having a scum read on all three of us. So run me through why you think each of us individually are 'good vote candidates' and how you don't seem to have a particular preference for one over the other. Also PoE = Process of elimination.
@Nacho - Did I just read you compare yourself to Tammy voluntarily? The **** are you doing, you're ruining my chance to ***** on her. But fair enough; understand the lack of vote movement more now. What's your thoughts on Ophidias recent posts - does it impact your town read on him at all / if so why/why not?
@X=Y that was poor wording. I had no issues with your page 1. I had massive issues with they way you stepped between tom and myself. I mistakenly called that an entrance in the second post.
So in my continued quest to read Ophi 399 strikes me more as town Ophi even as I can say it would be the first thing scum!Ophi would do to try to clear himself. I really like that Ophi is continuing to figure out the gamestate and the latter attempt to clear is NAI I think.
Re possible Iso fear mongering, this is town Iso early game. Late game town Iso plays differently. If that change doesn't happen Iso is scum, but right now this feels very strongly like town Iso.
I'll get back to this game maybe tomorrow.
I liked that Ophidia talked about trying a different style because he keeps clearing himself in absurd ways as town and instead ends up feeling like a town decoration as opposed to someone solving the game and being useful, felt like a genuine sentiment and I'm not sure that he would try to use it to clear himself as scum.
Can you elaborate on what part of Ophis #399 you thought was him 'trying to figure out the gamestate' because I see him mentioning that he wants to scumuhunt but not actually doing it at all, the question about people elaborating on their Pozzai read is super lazy in that it's only directed to two people both of which have gone into the read in detail throughout the thread several times, the Iso one is a self-serving question and the rest is just about his own meta. So show me what I'm missing there?
Thanks for your explanation re; the Iso part, that makes sense. Not really a fan of your explanation behind mentioning yourself, it's not as if you were garnering votes or anything at the time.
@Grapes, are you talking about the above 2 questions from him? If not quote for me what you're referring to. If so you're going to have to go elaborate more than "I think he only does Level 1 scumhunting" because neither seem like scumhunting; the first question is asking two people to explain reads that have been gone over 4-5 times throughout the thread and the second comes across as him trying to defend himself rather than get a read on Iso.
Iso/Pozzai
Xequalsy/typhon
Either of these pairs could be w/w (very unlikely both, setup-wise). Both of them could be w/v and resolving them should be pretty key. If there's 3 or even 4 town in those 4 names, uh oh....
Xequalsy and Typhon seem moderately likely to be w/w. I don't think xequalsy/iso are particularly likely teammates,
This one is confusion and trying to get a grasp on where the game is. Sure I'd like to see more initiative but Ophi isn't casting any doubt on the reads or trying to defend pozzai here just trying to get a picture of what's happening.
And the same here.
This is a meta read because I think scum Ophi isn't as patient to just sit back and ask for clarifications on reads, and I think town Ophi 100% would when they are trying to figure out the game state. It's not scum hunting but it's reasonably towny.
@Tom - Generally not a fan of dividing the game into 'pairs' and focusing in them since it can lead to pretty bad positions if any grouping is ever T/T. Rather just focus on getting reads normally and lynching my strongest scum read which at the moment is still Pozzai. What's your thoughts on X=Y's Post #353 and Post #354 particularly the latter one, I've gone over his post there several times today trying to see if I can buy and follow the entire thought process and read from him and constantly get caught up with the fact the parts of Pozzais ISO that he seems to be focusing more on conversing about are the parts that are less important, the parts that I actually find scummy from Pozzai he barely comments on. Would like to hear an outsiders point of view on it.
@Grapes - I still don't read either of those questions as game solving? I might need to actually take a look at his meta to understand where you're coming from with it because both questions feel very shallow.
@Von - Sure, go for it. Only thing I won't believe from you is that you like Tammy.
The most disconcerting part of that first post is when he tells iso he was already wrong once but doesn't seem to be talking about the scumread on him... I don't at all like his comments on Delphine in that post. As for Pozzai, his read there his so hedgey as to have no actual meaning. He mentions some things and figures out how they can be null and somehow ends up with a townread. I'm not really buying it either. I haven't talked about xequalsy much, but I'm certainly willing to lynch there if this Iso thing doesn't get any traction.