1. Most likely Tom. Nacho's early posts give me a more relaxed town vibe, while Regfan's attack on me seems warranted, as I did not answer Vaimes' question and that was pretty scummy for me to make that post. I don't really have any idea about tom now, so he is likely the best candidate.
2. The Grapefruit question got me thinking about his alignment. I had him as lean town before for the anti-meme post. I mean currently, in the three posts that you presented, he is giving scummy vibes to me. Also, Newcomb, why these specific posts, and not the earlier ones?
"See two people town reading me off one post of content is not something I feel great about."
"I strongly disagree, philosophically, with this. Strong townreads, especially in a smaller game like this one, are incredibly powerful."
These two quotes seem to be in some kind of conflict against each other. Grapefruit, if you believe that a strong townread is greatly beneficial to the game, and that you are town, why do you make a second post disowning other's townreads on you? Sure, they might come from a scum perspective, but being townread as a town should be a good thing and Grapefruit's post #82 sounds more like its coming from a scum mindset.
"Apparently I'm blindingly obv!town so a mindmeld over that probably isn't the best indicator of town." @Grapefruit: I don't quite understand this post, now could you please explain the meaning of this post and its purpose?
I want to read your post in depth when I'm actually not phone posting and can read it properly. Nacho the person in this room I have have the most experience with and think he knows there's a noticeable difference between my town/scum play so while he may have dropped the push once I'd posted I can see it early on being an attempt at sorting me; do want to go over it again later.
Like your questions directed to Orphidia, liked one of the posts you linked of Typhs, the other didn't do as much for me and dislike his lack of activity since.
1. Most likely Tom. Nacho's early posts give me a more relaxed town vibe, while Regfan's attack on me seems warranted, as I did not answer Vaimes' question and that was pretty scummy for me to make that post. I don't really have any idea about tom now, so he is likely the best candidate.
This reads a lot like scum trying to be townie by acknowledging their own scumminess. Overly reasonable.
1. Most likely Tom. Nacho's early posts give me a more relaxed town vibe, while Regfan's attack on me seems warranted, as I did not answer Vaimes' question and that was pretty scummy for me to make that post. I don't really have any idea about tom now, so he is likely the best candidate.
2. The Grapefruit question got me thinking about his alignment. I had him as lean town before for the anti-meme post. I mean currently, in the three posts that you presented, he is giving scummy vibes to me. Also, Newcomb, why these specific posts, and not the earlier ones?
"See two people town reading me off one post of content is not something I feel great about."
"I strongly disagree, philosophically, with this. Strong townreads, especially in a smaller game like this one, are incredibly powerful."
These two quotes seem to be in some kind of conflict against each other. Grapefruit, if you believe that a strong townread is greatly beneficial to the game, and that you are town, why do you make a second post disowning other's townreads on you? Sure, they might come from a scum perspective, but being townread as a town should be a good thing and Grapefruit's post #82 sounds more like its coming from a scum mindset.
"Apparently I'm blindingly obv!town so a mindmeld over that probably isn't the best indicator of town." @Grapefruit: I don't quite understand this post, now could you please explain the meaning of this post and its purpose?
The second sentence you're quoting is actually something I wrote; it's not a quote from one of those three posts.
I picked those posts because I wanted to see how you approached three content-filled posts (that is, non fluffy/RVS) by someone who's been pretty widely townread (I'd argue to the point of being spewed).
Quote confusion aside, I'm kind of buying this? That is, it doesn't read like Ophidia's trying to shade Grapefruit, it reads like he's more trying to sort him. Could be just, hrmn, kind of overly cautious, skittish scum? Which would fit with Ophidia being relatively new (I think?) and unfamiliar with the player base. But, on balance I think this is more earnest if kind of surface level town engagement.
1. Most likely Tom. Nacho's early posts give me a more relaxed town vibe, while Regfan's attack on me seems warranted, as I did not answer Vaimes' question and that was pretty scummy for me to make that post. I don't really have any idea about tom now, so he is likely the best candidate.
This reads a lot like scum trying to be townie by acknowledging their own scumminess. Overly reasonable.
Like, so often when scum play that "yes I'm scum but your reasons are bad, now watch me defend myself and nothing else," it comes with some kind of barbs/snark/shade at the person scumreading them. That just reads so... idk, earnest, or something.
I want to read your post in depth when I'm actually not phone posting and can read it properly. Nacho the person in this room I have have the most experience with and think he knows there's a noticeable difference between my town/scum play so while he may have dropped the push once I'd posted I can see it early on being an attempt at sorting me; do want to go over it again later.
Like your questions directed to Orphidia, liked one of the posts you linked of Typhs, the other didn't do as much for me and dislike his lack of activity since.
Particularly interested in what you think about that xequalsy quote I talked about. It's kind of a holistic/gameflow/intuitive read.
Is that a yes?
It feels like a yes.
You came in with a flurry and didn't mention the top wagon/most talked about player.
@Newcomb
Grapefruit is not only thinking about whatever Toms he's seen before, but comparing it to the Tom he sees here and reacting.
It's not "he's playing differently, let's lynch it", it's thoughtful comparison to a town game and a scum game of mine and seeing more similarities with the latter.
He's wrong, because I am town. But I'm sure he'll realize it eventually.
Perhaps I should have waited for Reg to answer, but I am here now and [something about in-laws].
Fake edit:
Ophidia seems likely town for the cheekiness of #164
Even though shooting me seems terrible.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Newcomb if forming a town block is so strong how does one spew by making themselves obviously town? Your theory wall was convincing and taken into consideration.
Quote from Ophidia »
"Apparently I'm blindingly obv!town so a mindmeld over that probably isn't the best indicator of town."
@Grapefruit: I don't quite understand this post, now could you please explain the meaning of this post and its purpose?
That part was directed @Regfan but I forgot to @ them. I was attempting to push my tom wagon and point out that others had a similar read on me as well and that tom making that read on me shouldn't exclude tom from being scum.
Oh now I get what you are saying grapefruit. You started the tom wagon because he follows other people' townreads on you in a way that shows his scum mindset.
As tom tells me to keep watching, I will closely following his posts and the tom wagon itself. Sounds fun.
@Newcomb if forming a town block is so strong how does one spew by making themselves obviously town? Your theory wall was convincing and taken into consideration.
I'm not quite sure what you're asking?
If you're asking "how does one make themselves obviously town," the answer is, um. Simple, but also pretty context-based. I can go into detail if you'd like, but I don't think that's what you're asking. Is it?
If you're asking what being spewed town means, it's not something you directly do, I'm saying other people have spewed you town. Short version:
1. You picked up a bunch of quick townreads from generally strong players.
2. In the world where you're town, you've been correctly townread by town and/or mafia who already knew you were town.
3. In the world where you're mafia, a bunch of pretty strong players misread you, and any potential wolves in that group decided to just go with the flow on that read, despite having probably no idea if you're about to collapse like a house of cards and make them look bad.
3 is certainly not impossible, but 2 is way more likely. In my experience, a lot of games have that one guy who the wolves write off pretty early, and the game has this kind of... flow, around that person? It's hard to describe. But it feels like that situation to me, and I have no real reason to assume this is a weird game.
@Newcomb
Grapefruit is not only thinking about whatever Toms he's seen before, but comparing it to the Tom he sees here and reacting.
It's not "he's playing differently, let's lynch it", it's thoughtful comparison to a town game and a scum game of mine and seeing more similarities with the latter.
He's wrong, because I am town. But I'm sure he'll realize it eventually.
I mean. I take issue with the word "thoughtful," just like I did with "nuance." I understood what Grapefruit was doing in those posts, I just don't see how you read that much depth in it.
EBWODP I'm at work and took forever to type that post, Tom's 56 is much more straight forward and since Tom is one of the few players I know of (Barebones is a good read) that scares me.
Grapefruit is town.
This nuance in a null/paranoia read is not something even very experienced players would think to fake as scum.
... the vibe I got was that you were dropping a bombshell, something profound, like you really had something. Since I do not see that, at all, in the posts you're quoting to make that read, I'm having trouble seeing it as genuine and not as a lazy townread of someone who must seem pretty blindingly town if you're a wolf and already know they are.
@Newcomb "spewed town" and the latter is what I was asking about. I focused on spew and took offense. The first part I pretty much have figured out at this point.
And I'm Barning your 179 because that was what I was trying to get at about tom and referring to as opportunistic. Just better articulated than I can manage.
And @Ophidia that was pretty much my intent, I didn't like the way he was trying to seem super towny for that read. Just rankled me a bit.
In the meantime Vote: Typhorus for their awkward entrance.
A new player faking a read typically is much more black and white.
If you'd like to argue that grapefruit is scum, I'd love to hear it. But it doesn't seem as if you do.
I'm unsure why you were expecting a bombshell at that point in the game. I thought it was townie, and was comfortable sharing it once I confirmed that he was fairly new.
Maybe he has fooled us all, like hisfluffiness in The Game We All Forgot.
But I don't think so.
Oh now I get what you are saying grapefruit. You started the tom wagon because he follows other people' townreads on you in a way that shows his scum mindset.
I dislike Pozzais focus on Tom altering his playstyle in #126 and #129, him ignoring the mentions earlier that this was preplanned from Tom and very much null is a huge thing to miss given the conversation was already had with Vaimes earlier. His accusation that Toms made this change purposefully to get away with giving away more town reads as mafia is one that makes very little sense. Really none of his catch up flurry of posts look like him genuinely attempting to sort peoples alignments other than maaybe his question to Delphine in #125 and I'm not a huge fan of that either.
I actually like Ophidias #149, I think the attitude of "Ask me questions so I can learn to analyse" is more likely to come from newtown than newscum. Also think him coming out of Newcombs questions with the opposite alignment than most people on Grapefruit is something unlikely for scum to do, they'd know it leads towards more focus.
@Newcomb/Von - I've gone into this more than enough but want to go over it one final time since I have a keyboard for a bit. Nachos the person in the game that knows me and my town/scum difference the best (I'd argue no one else knows it at all other than Delphine if she's done secret meta research) so I find the fact that he came out the gate pushing me and attempting to get others to vote me too make plenty of sense as town, particuarly given I've seen him do this to others before as town but haven't as scum. Doesn't eman it's impossible for him to fake but it's certainly an indicator even if just a weak one that he's town, combine it with the other posts of his I liked and I felt pretty good about the read for the time in the game. That said I've not liked the lack of progression from the push nor do I like his #111 when combing over the thread again.
@Newcomb - I very much do see what you're referring to in Xequals post, it feels less like him attempting to determine alignment and more like him trying to put himself in a mediator position without taking a stance. What did you yourself make of Pozzais posts? Very much would like to hear what you agree/disagree with my read on him.
@Iso - Would very much like an explanation behind some of the reads given they differ from mine pretty greatly.
Consider this post an unvote on Ophidia even though my original vote didn't count for some reason (Pretty sure the mods being manipulated by Tammy to troll me, would explain why I never got an answer to my question too) and probably will throw down a vote on Pozzai or Xequal when I get home after I do another reread.
Oh now I get what you are saying grapefruit. You started the tom wagon because he follows other people' townreads on you in a way that shows his scum mindset.
Who did I follow?
Oops. I did not mean what I said. i meant to say that your townread seems too friendly and provides less scrutiny, which lead to the feeling of teaming up with others. I am sure there is a mafia word for that, but I am not sure which.
Well, you are just putting words in my mouth now tom. Wouldn't like you doing that again as it is quite scummy to me.
I think it is called pocketing after a quick search on Google.
As for the question, I need to reread newcomb to get a hold of what he is all about, and it is already bedtime for me. Will post thoughts tomorrow, hopefully.
I guess what I'm saying is that the Monte Diamond is not looking great for tom this game.
I will say that the gimmick kind of...complicates things.
Are you actually still doing it? I legitimately can't tell.
@tom the last bit wasn't an idle question.
@Reg, I'll get back to you about Pozzai, I'm kinda beat and want to take a look at it with fresh eyes. Off the top of my head, kinda agree with you, yet my impression of Pozzai's towngame is that he's very heavy on the rapid fire kind of scattershot questions without suuuuuper following up on them. That being said I've never seen his scumgame. I'd say I'm pretty null without going back and reading his posts. Not a townread.
That part was directed @Regfan but I forgot to @ them. I was attempting to push my tom wagon and point out that others had a similar read on me as well and that tom making that read on me shouldn't exclude tom from being scum.
\
This was preciously my point though, Toms thought process behind his town read on you mirrored mine, I think it makes it slightly more likely he's town but would understand how some others might consider the action null from him, what I disagreed with was you reading it as a scum-tell.
@regfan
What does Nacho knowing you best have to do with trying to lynch you before you posted?
He'd already decided what to do before you had posted.
You're slipping on your 'reasonable' shtick because this is a fairly basic point; him knowing me best and knowing what I'm like as both alignments means that him attempting to mount pressure on me before I arrive is more likely to give him alignment indicative information he knows how to read and anaylse; it's that action from him that I town read. The lack of follow through on that from him since and his #111 is problematic though.
@Newcomb - I'm happy to wait until tomorrow for you to get around to Pozzai. I was warned in the sign up thread and in DM conversations in the past that he likes to spam and interrogate players so it's not the existence of lots of spam posts and questioning that I find scummy; that action alone I think is relatively null. What I dislike is the angles and questions he's asking specifically, I don't think his questions are him attempting to actually discern alignment anywhere other than maybe Delphines and really think his stance on Tom makes no sense whatsoever if he's read the thread in it's entirety.
Don't think I need to unvote given my vote is somehow still on no one.
@Regfan I think we're talking past each other a bit.
I'm saying this particular mind meld doesn't have value because it was an obvious/lazy read that could easily come from scum. The fact that tom wasn't the first to town read me (Vaimes) or the only other to make that read with you makes it strange that you are singling out tom for it. Do I think tom is scum for it? Not anymore. Do I have an extra eye on him for it? Yes. And you too.
@Newcomb
I don't know how many more times I'll mirror specific posts, but the syntax and formatting seems easy enough to keep up. And the overarching approach is proven successful.
I usually end up breaking my schticks eventually. The one non-flavor text post to win Titanic Ultimatum, the non-rhyming partner analysis to (eventually) lose OTG.
But... I don't foresee a situation this one has no way to handle.
@Regfan
What do you think of Newcomb's doubt of the townread you mindmelded with?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Grapes - I think we are talking past each other too (We agree on something!), it's not the fact that Tom town read you alone that I liked because you're right in that Vaimes was the first to mention the read. It was that Toms reasoning about your paranoia about him that came across as town particularly in the line "That scares me", it's that mesh of reasoning I like. And sure, it's possible that as scum he preemptively saw that you'd be town read for that and jumped ahead but I think that's slightly less likely at the moment. I have no problem with you "having your eye" on him though, or myself for that matter as long as you're willing to discuss reads and share your thoughts as well.
@Tom - I don't make a whole lot of him not agreeing or seeing the mindmeld, it's not a super strong tell or read of mine. Actually not particularly sure what to make of Newcomb overall yet, don't actually have any real scum meta on him; mostly just town meta so it's more a lack of specific town behavior of his that I'm trying to keep an eye on, haven't really seen any red flags outside of his brief Pozzai answer not really responding to my main issues with Pozzais play (re; his read/stance on you) but his answer tomorrow should resolve that one way or another. Did like his interaction with Ophidia and some of his with myself as well.
I'll be at a laptop completely uninterrupted and able to reread everything properly in 1-2 hours, if anyone is online then to able to bounce thoughts and reads with that'd help a lot.
I'll be at a laptop completely uninterrupted and able to reread everything properly in 1-2 hours, if anyone is online then to able to bounce thoughts and reads with that'd help a lot.
I'm around for a while. Couple of quick questions before you get deep into your reread.
So is your town lean for tom just that he was the first to cite my read of him as evidence of my towniness? Because I think that's informed a lot of reads and been seen by several for that reason. But then again it could just be because he said it first and made everyone else see it.
Second what do you have on Vaimes and Newcomb because they seem very strongly town to me at this point, but I am not trusting any of my reads since everyone keeps banging on about how experienced this player base is.
@Iso - I very much do want to hear elaboration behind your reads, if you're going to be too stubborn to go over all of them I'll settle with an explanation behind your town read on Pozzai and your scum read on Grapes & Vaimes for now.
@Delphi -
1) I don't think Nachos push on me is necessarily just him following up on his pre-game statement, it's the type of statement Tammy/Naco/Empire/Myself would often joke around with before games start and pretty much never actually follow through with, that said I do want to hear a lot more from him because the fact that the push completely halted and he started sideline cheering for my wagon doesn't come across as natural especially since I think he should have a decent read on me by now.
2) I'm not a fan of the "Too scummy to be scum" or "Acting too town to be town" theories that people present; if someone has a similar thought on something to me I generally find it a town-tell even if it's a player I generally aren't on the same page with. So no, even though it's a rarity to have the same thoughts as Tom it doesn't dissuade it from being a town tell to me at all.
3) I didn't have a read on you when spectating SVW and I still don't have a read on you now, I thought while you were active throughout D1 in that game your reads and thoughts weren't presented to the thread anywhere near as much as they should be. You being a mason and having daytalk there made that play from you much more understandable after your flip but your play here is maintaining the same lack of clarity with your reads. Other than Grape do you have any town reads and if so who/why?
@Grapes - I assume you're a fellow Australian? If so awesome.
Most of my town read on Tom at the moment is based around him seeing what I did re; you earlier, I also liked the effort put forward from him to go hunting in Westeroes to find my meta post to show to Vaimes; shows a lot of town thought process behind it. I'll let you know exactly where I am with him when I finish the reread in ~1 hour though but haven't really had any problems with his posts so far from memory
I've got a town read on Vaimes at the moment, while his push on me is incorrect I can at least somewhat understand where he's coming from with it, been attacked for 'being too confident' with reads and being 'overly wordy' several times in the past in the very early game, does take a while for people to fully understand my playstyle in that I share all my reads, regardless of their strength and reevaluate constantly, typically avoid the entire mess by just replacing in but this playerlist was too good to risk not getting in. I liked his early analysis on Ophidia and while I disagree with his recent analysis on them I again can follow his thought process there. I've touched on my read on Newcomb earlier but will go into it more after he answers about Pozzai tomorrow.
@Grapes - I assume you're a fellow Australian? If so awesome.
Most of my town read on Tom at the moment is based around him seeing what I did re; you earlier, I also liked the effort put forward from him to go hunting in Westeroes to find my meta post to show to Vaimes; shows a lot of town thought process behind it. I'll let you know exactly where I am with him when I finish the reread in ~1 hour though but haven't really had any problems with his posts so far from memory
I've got a town read on Vaimes at the moment, while his push on me is incorrect I can at least somewhat understand where he's coming from with it, been attacked for 'being too confident' with reads and being 'overly wordy' several times in the past in the very early game, does take a while for people to fully understand my playstyle in that I share all my reads, regardless of their strength and reevaluate constantly, typically avoid the entire mess by just replacing in but this playerlist was too good to risk not getting in. I liked his early analysis on Ophidia and while I disagree with his recent analysis on them I again can follow his thought process there. I've touched on my read on Newcomb earlier but will go into it more after he answers about Pozzai tomorrow.
American but I've migrated to Australia and love it here. Picked up a few of the colloquialisms in the meantime.
Cool that mostly echo's what I've been thinking wrt Vaimes though I have less of an issue with his later reads and tend to like where most of them are going.
What you are saying on tom makes sense and it's why I'm off the wagon now. I still find his initial read scummy, but I like everything else he's been doing since then.
I thought I'd have more time but work finished and I'm heading home. Might post more before bed but probably not.
I will say before I go right now my top three scum leans are Typh, Xequalsy, and a weird soul read on Ophi that makes no sense but I can't shake.
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VOTECOUNT:
Pozzai - 1 (Typhrous)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Vaimes)
tomsloger - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Typhrous - 2 (xequalsy, tomsloger)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
Not Voting - 5 (Iso, DelphiBlue, Pozzai, Newcomb, Regfan)
2. The Grapefruit question got me thinking about his alignment. I had him as lean town before for the anti-meme post. I mean currently, in the three posts that you presented, he is giving scummy vibes to me. Also, Newcomb, why these specific posts, and not the earlier ones?
"See two people town reading me off one post of content is not something I feel great about."
"I strongly disagree, philosophically, with this. Strong townreads, especially in a smaller game like this one, are incredibly powerful."
These two quotes seem to be in some kind of conflict against each other. Grapefruit, if you believe that a strong townread is greatly beneficial to the game, and that you are town, why do you make a second post disowning other's townreads on you? Sure, they might come from a scum perspective, but being townread as a town should be a good thing and Grapefruit's post #82 sounds more like its coming from a scum mindset.
"Apparently I'm blindingly obv!town so a mindmeld over that probably isn't the best indicator of town."
@Grapefruit: I don't quite understand this post, now could you please explain the meaning of this post and its purpose?
I want to read your post in depth when I'm actually not phone posting and can read it properly. Nacho the person in this room I have have the most experience with and think he knows there's a noticeable difference between my town/scum play so while he may have dropped the push once I'd posted I can see it early on being an attempt at sorting me; do want to go over it again later.
Like your questions directed to Orphidia, liked one of the posts you linked of Typhs, the other didn't do as much for me and dislike his lack of activity since.
I don't want to brush aside engagement as "coaching," but. Taking note.
The second sentence you're quoting is actually something I wrote; it's not a quote from one of those three posts.
I picked those posts because I wanted to see how you approached three content-filled posts (that is, non fluffy/RVS) by someone who's been pretty widely townread (I'd argue to the point of being spewed).
Quote confusion aside, I'm kind of buying this? That is, it doesn't read like Ophidia's trying to shade Grapefruit, it reads like he's more trying to sort him. Could be just, hrmn, kind of overly cautious, skittish scum? Which would fit with Ophidia being relatively new (I think?) and unfamiliar with the player base. But, on balance I think this is more earnest if kind of surface level town engagement.
It's so... blatant, though.
Particularly interested in what you think about that xequalsy quote I talked about. It's kind of a holistic/gameflow/intuitive read.
Don't worry Vaimes, I have a mentor.:rolleyes:
Apparently I did not do this right.
Is that a yes?
It feels like a yes.
You came in with a flurry and didn't mention the top wagon/most talked about player.
@Newcomb
Grapefruit is not only thinking about whatever Toms he's seen before, but comparing it to the Tom he sees here and reacting.
It's not "he's playing differently, let's lynch it", it's thoughtful comparison to a town game and a scum game of mine and seeing more similarities with the latter.
He's wrong, because I am town. But I'm sure he'll realize it eventually.
Perhaps I should have waited for Reg to answer, but I am here now and [something about in-laws].
Fake edit:
Ophidia seems likely town for the cheekiness of #164
Even though shooting me seems terrible.
I DON'T WANT YOU GUYS TO KEEP GETTING CARDED AND POTENTIALLY SUSPENDED, DISRUPTING THE MAFIA GAME
IF YOU'RE GOING TO POST AN IMAGE DIRECTLY INTO YOUR POST PLEASE USE A DEDICATED IMAGE HOSTING SITE SUCH AS IMGUR
THANK YOU
Okay, I'm reading what's gone on so far in a bit.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Is he also giving you sassing tips?
Good times.
@tom: Of course you would say that you are town and a bad candidate to shoot. What are some proof that you are town? Show them to me.
Wtf is this. Typed a post using a keyboard on a work computer and emailed it to myself and can't even post it.
Pretty sure the scum team is Grapefruit, xequalsy, regfan, and Vaimes.
You're welcome.
-
@tom, Nacho, & Pozzai: Hi! Wanna be in a townbloc with me?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I guess regfan is the least scummy of the 4?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What stands out from xequalsy?
@Ophidia
Keep watching.
@Newcomb if forming a town block is so strong how does one spew by making themselves obviously town? Your theory wall was convincing and taken into consideration.
That part was directed @Regfan but I forgot to @ them. I was attempting to push my tom wagon and point out that others had a similar read on me as well and that tom making that read on me shouldn't exclude tom from being scum.
As tom tells me to keep watching, I will closely following his posts and the tom wagon itself. Sounds fun.
I'm not quite sure what you're asking?
If you're asking "how does one make themselves obviously town," the answer is, um. Simple, but also pretty context-based. I can go into detail if you'd like, but I don't think that's what you're asking. Is it?
If you're asking what being spewed town means, it's not something you directly do, I'm saying other people have spewed you town. Short version:
1. You picked up a bunch of quick townreads from generally strong players.
2. In the world where you're town, you've been correctly townread by town and/or mafia who already knew you were town.
3. In the world where you're mafia, a bunch of pretty strong players misread you, and any potential wolves in that group decided to just go with the flow on that read, despite having probably no idea if you're about to collapse like a house of cards and make them look bad.
3 is certainly not impossible, but 2 is way more likely. In my experience, a lot of games have that one guy who the wolves write off pretty early, and the game has this kind of... flow, around that person? It's hard to describe. But it feels like that situation to me, and I have no real reason to assume this is a weird game.
I mean. I take issue with the word "thoughtful," just like I did with "nuance." I understood what Grapefruit was doing in those posts, I just don't see how you read that much depth in it.
Like, the way you prefeaced that post -
... the vibe I got was that you were dropping a bombshell, something profound, like you really had something. Since I do not see that, at all, in the posts you're quoting to make that read, I'm having trouble seeing it as genuine and not as a lazy townread of someone who must seem pretty blindingly town if you're a wolf and already know they are.
I will say that the gimmick kind of...complicates things.
Are you actually still doing it? I legitimately can't tell.
Either I'm not doing a good job of sticking to my plan, or y'all are not posting enough. Probably both.
And I'm Barning your 179 because that was what I was trying to get at about tom and referring to as opportunistic. Just better articulated than I can manage.
And @Ophidia that was pretty much my intent, I didn't like the way he was trying to seem super towny for that read. Just rankled me a bit.
In the meantime Vote: Typhorus for their awkward entrance.
If you'd like to argue that grapefruit is scum, I'd love to hear it. But it doesn't seem as if you do.
I'm unsure why you were expecting a bombshell at that point in the game. I thought it was townie, and was comfortable sharing it once I confirmed that he was fairly new.
Maybe he has fooled us all, like hisfluffiness in The Game We All Forgot.
But I don't think so.
Who did I follow?
I actually like Ophidias #149, I think the attitude of "Ask me questions so I can learn to analyse" is more likely to come from newtown than newscum. Also think him coming out of Newcombs questions with the opposite alignment than most people on Grapefruit is something unlikely for scum to do, they'd know it leads towards more focus.
@Newcomb/Von - I've gone into this more than enough but want to go over it one final time since I have a keyboard for a bit. Nachos the person in the game that knows me and my town/scum difference the best (I'd argue no one else knows it at all other than Delphine if she's done secret meta research) so I find the fact that he came out the gate pushing me and attempting to get others to vote me too make plenty of sense as town, particuarly given I've seen him do this to others before as town but haven't as scum. Doesn't eman it's impossible for him to fake but it's certainly an indicator even if just a weak one that he's town, combine it with the other posts of his I liked and I felt pretty good about the read for the time in the game. That said I've not liked the lack of progression from the push nor do I like his #111 when combing over the thread again.
@Newcomb - I very much do see what you're referring to in Xequals post, it feels less like him attempting to determine alignment and more like him trying to put himself in a mediator position without taking a stance. What did you yourself make of Pozzais posts? Very much would like to hear what you agree/disagree with my read on him.
@Iso - Would very much like an explanation behind some of the reads given they differ from mine pretty greatly.
Consider this post an unvote on Ophidia even though my original vote didn't count for some reason (Pretty sure the mods being manipulated by Tammy to troll me, would explain why I never got an answer to my question too) and probably will throw down a vote on Pozzai or Xequal when I get home after I do another reread.
Oops. I did not mean what I said. i meant to say that your townread seems too friendly and provides less scrutiny, which lead to the feeling of teaming up with others. I am sure there is a mafia word for that, but I am not sure which.
What does Nacho knowing you best have to do with trying to lynch you before you posted?
He'd already decided what to do before you had posted.
@Ophidia
The phrase you are looking for is town successfully identifying other town.
What do you think of Newcomb so far?
I think it is called pocketing after a quick search on Google.
As for the question, I need to reread newcomb to get a hold of what he is all about, and it is already bedtime for me. Will post thoughts tomorrow, hopefully.
@tom the last bit wasn't an idle question.
@Reg, I'll get back to you about Pozzai, I'm kinda beat and want to take a look at it with fresh eyes. Off the top of my head, kinda agree with you, yet my impression of Pozzai's towngame is that he's very heavy on the rapid fire kind of scattershot questions without suuuuuper following up on them. That being said I've never seen his scumgame. I'd say I'm pretty null without going back and reading his posts. Not a townread.
This was preciously my point though, Toms thought process behind his town read on you mirrored mine, I think it makes it slightly more likely he's town but would understand how some others might consider the action null from him, what I disagreed with was you reading it as a scum-tell.
You're slipping on your 'reasonable' shtick because this is a fairly basic point; him knowing me best and knowing what I'm like as both alignments means that him attempting to mount pressure on me before I arrive is more likely to give him alignment indicative information he knows how to read and anaylse; it's that action from him that I town read. The lack of follow through on that from him since and his #111 is problematic though.
The point
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Your head.
@Newcomb - I'm happy to wait until tomorrow for you to get around to Pozzai. I was warned in the sign up thread and in DM conversations in the past that he likes to spam and interrogate players so it's not the existence of lots of spam posts and questioning that I find scummy; that action alone I think is relatively null. What I dislike is the angles and questions he's asking specifically, I don't think his questions are him attempting to actually discern alignment anywhere other than maybe Delphines and really think his stance on Tom makes no sense whatsoever if he's read the thread in it's entirety.
Don't think I need to unvote given my vote is somehow still on no one.
Vote: Pozzai
I'm saying this particular mind meld doesn't have value because it was an obvious/lazy read that could easily come from scum. The fact that tom wasn't the first to town read me (Vaimes) or the only other to make that read with you makes it strange that you are singling out tom for it. Do I think tom is scum for it? Not anymore. Do I have an extra eye on him for it? Yes. And you too.
I don't know how many more times I'll mirror specific posts, but the syntax and formatting seems easy enough to keep up. And the overarching approach is proven successful.
I usually end up breaking my schticks eventually. The one non-flavor text post to win Titanic Ultimatum, the non-rhyming partner analysis to (eventually) lose OTG.
But... I don't foresee a situation this one has no way to handle.
@Regfan
What do you think of Newcomb's doubt of the townread you mindmelded with?
Oh, were you expecting more?
The fact that he's scum, probably.
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@Regfan: I'm sure you would!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Tom - I don't make a whole lot of him not agreeing or seeing the mindmeld, it's not a super strong tell or read of mine. Actually not particularly sure what to make of Newcomb overall yet, don't actually have any real scum meta on him; mostly just town meta so it's more a lack of specific town behavior of his that I'm trying to keep an eye on, haven't really seen any red flags outside of his brief Pozzai answer not really responding to my main issues with Pozzais play (re; his read/stance on you) but his answer tomorrow should resolve that one way or another. Did like his interaction with Ophidia and some of his with myself as well.
I'm around for a while. Couple of quick questions before you get deep into your reread.
So is your town lean for tom just that he was the first to cite my read of him as evidence of my towniness? Because I think that's informed a lot of reads and been seen by several for that reason. But then again it could just be because he said it first and made everyone else see it.
Second what do you have on Vaimes and Newcomb because they seem very strongly town to me at this point, but I am not trusting any of my reads since everyone keeps banging on about how experienced this player base is.
What do you think of Iso's reads?
@Delphi -
1) I don't think Nachos push on me is necessarily just him following up on his pre-game statement, it's the type of statement Tammy/Naco/Empire/Myself would often joke around with before games start and pretty much never actually follow through with, that said I do want to hear a lot more from him because the fact that the push completely halted and he started sideline cheering for my wagon doesn't come across as natural especially since I think he should have a decent read on me by now.
2) I'm not a fan of the "Too scummy to be scum" or "Acting too town to be town" theories that people present; if someone has a similar thought on something to me I generally find it a town-tell even if it's a player I generally aren't on the same page with. So no, even though it's a rarity to have the same thoughts as Tom it doesn't dissuade it from being a town tell to me at all.
3) I didn't have a read on you when spectating SVW and I still don't have a read on you now, I thought while you were active throughout D1 in that game your reads and thoughts weren't presented to the thread anywhere near as much as they should be. You being a mason and having daytalk there made that play from you much more understandable after your flip but your play here is maintaining the same lack of clarity with your reads. Other than Grape do you have any town reads and if so who/why?
Most of my town read on Tom at the moment is based around him seeing what I did re; you earlier, I also liked the effort put forward from him to go hunting in Westeroes to find my meta post to show to Vaimes; shows a lot of town thought process behind it. I'll let you know exactly where I am with him when I finish the reread in ~1 hour though but haven't really had any problems with his posts so far from memory
I've got a town read on Vaimes at the moment, while his push on me is incorrect I can at least somewhat understand where he's coming from with it, been attacked for 'being too confident' with reads and being 'overly wordy' several times in the past in the very early game, does take a while for people to fully understand my playstyle in that I share all my reads, regardless of their strength and reevaluate constantly, typically avoid the entire mess by just replacing in but this playerlist was too good to risk not getting in. I liked his early analysis on Ophidia and while I disagree with his recent analysis on them I again can follow his thought process there. I've touched on my read on Newcomb earlier but will go into it more after he answers about Pozzai tomorrow.
American but I've migrated to Australia and love it here. Picked up a few of the colloquialisms in the meantime.
Cool that mostly echo's what I've been thinking wrt Vaimes though I have less of an issue with his later reads and tend to like where most of them are going.
What you are saying on tom makes sense and it's why I'm off the wagon now. I still find his initial read scummy, but I like everything else he's been doing since then.
I thought I'd have more time but work finished and I'm heading home. Might post more before bed but probably not.
I will say before I go right now my top three scum leans are Typh, Xequalsy, and a weird soul read on Ophi that makes no sense but I can't shake.