Going to be away until Monday evening, got an unexpected project work load wise. Have also informed Wheat. Will devote time catching up to everything then.
@Newcomb
I find it a little strange that Grapefruit mentioned using your big post to catch up a couple times but isn't actually townreading you. Beyond that, I can see how he got there. I'm not familiar with the "not advancing the gamestate" scumtell, but you have tended towards commentary mode. It's got some shades of looking for a reason to push you, but I'm not sure why he would even want to do that as scum. I want to say it's townie paranoia that he's being misled by a charismatic mafioso, but it's unclear how much of that is confirmation bias.
Who in this game do you see as "advancing the gamestate" more than me?
To me, when I look at that read on me, it seems like there a pretty huge disconnect between the things he's talking about, and anything having to do with my alignment. It seems incredibly... arbitrary, I guess? It very much does not feel like someone reading my posts and trying to discern my alignment.
@Newcomb re; Grapes section on you in Post #373, the section where he accuses your vote of being beyond consensus while ignoring that you were one of the first few people to comment on X=Y being scum to accuse you in the very same post of not doing anything to build towards a consensus is something I'm struggling to grasp. I can understand his point re; the scum teams you listed given they're not exactly a typical way to state reads or stances. All that said I don't even think his read on you is the one I'm having the biggest problem with inside his post, I really did not like him commenting on himself and his read on Iso comes across as attempting to use an appeal to fear against one of his stonger town reads which is a huge concern.
@Newcomb - I'l get to the Tom elaborated read in a few hours, probably going to try an get a few more hours sleep in a sec; also want to go over X=Y's post about Pozzai then. I found X=Y's section of "When populating a reads list in a QT I forgot one persons that which isn't a good sign" to be something I see rarely faked from newer scum players, it's certainly not impossible to fake and something I've actually done myself as mafia before so it's weakish in that regard but the way he stated it felt genuine (rather than thrown or overly focused on). There's a lot about his play that I don't like and think makes plenty of sense from scum but I'm still much more confident that Pozzai is maifa here and the difficulty to get people to move to Pozzai in comparison to X=Y is a problem. I mean it'd be great if it was that easy as both of them being scum (Would mean the odds of this being #16 town wins in a row is actually very high) and it possibly is but the fact that there's no one really pushing elsewhere and that most people seem content as is doesn't bode well.
Yeah, that was definitely one thing that made me raise my eyebrows at that post. Dude's like, "your vote on xequalsy was too consensus", and I don't get how that's a thought that goes through your head when I was the very first one to push him. Like... I'm not following anyone, you're all following me. I do feel a fair bit of just visceral "come the **** on dude" about that, so it felt like something I wanted to get more opinions on. I... don't really know if it's alignment indicative. Maaaaybe scum wouldn't be that sloppy?
I don't really feel your point on him commenting on himself; it sounds bad viscerally but I've seen plenty of town talk about themselves in that kind of shady, self-aware way. I think the point about how he talked about Iso was stronger. It read like positioning, not genuine analysis.
Your point on x=y and Pozzai is well-taken, I just... don't feel Pozzai as strongly as I do x=y. However, the longer the game goes without any real counterwagon happening, the more I feel the itch to upset the apple cart. I'm really, really trying to not be so antsy with my reads this game but ehhh it's not exactly a switch I can just turn off.
Vaimes is not happening toDay; if you had sole control over the lynch but couldn't lynch Vaimes, who you got?
I am not trying to lynch Vaimes. His behavior seems town enough to me, as he is poking people with questions and is a universal townread at this point in the game.
I just can't find one definite person to vote for right now. Pozzai, reg and x=y all seem to be good candidates.
Delve a little bit. Why do they seem like good candidates? Do you think that could be the team exactly? Why, or why not?
I don't get why you have to be prompted to talk about this stuff. I keep having this "how is this coming from town" / "but would a wolf really be this blatant about lack of interest in the game?" back and forth with myself on Ophidia's posts.
Newcomb, if there was an elevator closing on you I'd tell you to hold your arm out because the sensors on those things are pretty good and even if it tries to close on you it's not like it would actually hurt a whole lot.
If there were 10 minutes until deadline, the Pozzai case wouldn't change; the only things I've read from his slot are the things at the very beginning. The X=Y thing is based on his big wall on Pozzai which didn't really seem like legitimate analysis; I suppose I'd pick it apart more thoroughly if deadline wasn't so soon but I don't like the repeated mentions of having to understand his play better before reading him because he doesn't make that comment about anyone else and I don't like how the analysis by the end of it feels so... weak? tentative? blah? I didn't like his push on Delphine, particularly the "why haven't you voted in seven pages?" bit and extended questioning after that. Recently, I didn't like his response to Iso's vote; the piece where he went "I'm voting you because you're voting me" especially because it seemed hollow and fake, didn't have the same bite as a townie who thought scum was voting them in a bull***** way would have.
I feel that last one. It's the weekend now though, so. Step Up 2: The Streets.
@Newbcomb - As promised, my read on Tom; I liked Toms prodding of Typhon and yourself in Post #56, I really liked him putting in the time to hunt for my post in the Westeroes game to show to Vaimes in Post #105. Ignoring the fact that I love the playstyle and way of solving the game inside his Post #280 I really like most of the reads and reasoning behind them, very much mirrored where my head was at when he made it with most of them. I think his interaction with Iso about Pozzai inside Post #296 -> Post #339 -> Post #348->Post #363 is a thought process that makes a lot of sense and really comes across as he believes what he's saying. Pretty much I can follow what he's doing and his play / questioning comes across as him actually trying to solve this.
What is the nuance in tom looking at a Westeros game of yours versus Delphine going back to look at games to address Typhon's "newb card" comment? Like, what makes one a town thing and one a null thing in your opinion?
The "Iso where did I interact with X=Y" section of Ophidias Post #399 actually comes across as very scummy, would like others thoughts on it but it seems overly-defensive especially pre-flip. Don't really follow the 'change of playstyle' explanation inside the thread either -- the whole post actually makes very little sense to me and dislike the fact that he's stepping back again and waiting for questions before offering reads and thoughts.
Ehh, that part of his post to me pinged a lot more on my "this guy is just too damn earnest to be a wolf" radar. Like, it just seems... genuinely confused where Iso's going with that, which is a position I can understand.
Reading Ophidia's 399 again, especially the part about dividing the game into groups, got me thinking. Not exactly about groups, but pairs that need figured out.
Iso/Pozzai
Xequalsy/typhon
Either of these pairs could be w/w (very unlikely both, setup-wise). Both of them could be w/v and resolving them should be pretty key. If there's 3 or even 4 town in those 4 names, uh oh....
Xequalsy and Typhon seem moderately likely to be w/w. I don't think xequalsy/iso are particularly likely teammates,
I think that early game exchange between Typhon / xequalsy is pretty unlikely to come from partners.
@Newcomb
I don't think I agree with Grapefruit's definition of advancing the game state, but it has remained consistent (see #92). He can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think he sees you making these big posts with lots of analysis but it doesn't look like catching scum to him. I don't think it's a good read, I just see how he got it and it doesn't seem to come from a scummy place.
Do you think the fluffy page 1 exchange is a hard unalignment? Why?
@Regfan
The most disconcerting part of that first post is when he tells iso he was already wrong once but doesn't seem to be talking about the scumread on him....
This is abolutely not how I read the entire exchange and I think you're misreading it too. X=Y stated that Iso had been wrong once already and it was Iso that brought up that X=Y was referring to Vaimes (When X=Y never did anything of that sort inside his post), X=Y's following post where he elaborates that he is indeed talking about himself also fits that. I do like your points about his Pozzai read coming across really badly though.
Regardless, i will reread the game and see what I can get from it.
You ignored it when I mentioned it earlier (Despite asking for questions) so I'll re-ask it; can you elaborate on why you're content to join 3 of the top 4 wagons (Reasoning attached) as well as why you seem to not have a preference between them given that's what your reason seems to be not to have moved your vote. I need some thought process from you re; reads.
@Newcomb RE; Post #422. 1) Yeah so your thoughts re; Ophidias section on you match mine pretty well, I don't find the read genuine / town but I'm not particularly sure how much more likely it make him mafia. 2) I've noticed at my home site and a few others I've played at that people that include themselves in their own read list (Even tier lists) are actually mafia more often than not, had to drop that read entirely when going to DLP since it seems to be common practice there but it's the inclusion of 'reasoning' behind putting himself there that strengthens it as a scum tell. 3) I know what you mean, I'm getting a bit frustrated with this game too, most of the people that I don't have a strong read on and was hoping to attempt to sort out this weekend have barely been here and I'm growing pretty impatient. 4) Difference between Tom bringing up the Westeroes meta and Delphi going and rereading one of her own games is fairly huge (You asking me this question is actually a bit troublesome since I think you should know the answer to most of it yourself), Tom brought it up to attempt to explain to Von how his reasoning behind a read was incorrect, as scum he doesn't have to do that and can keep Von tunneling in on it longer, there's the additional fact that Westeroes games are alted (Using rotating alts generally) which makes finding particular posts from people super difficult postgame so the effort put in there by Tom has a lot of town motivation behind it. Delphis meta usage didn't actually lead towards much in the thread other than her commenting on how amusing her first game was.
Pretty sure that emotional response only comes from town!newcomb.
Re: the validity of that read no one was doing much to advance the game state, but newcomb was putting a heck of a lot more words into it so I was holding you to a higher standard. I wanted to make sure you weren't coasting by just giving IIOA. And it overall wasn't a great read in the first place but your response was very towny and makes me feel better that I'm not being pocketed.
@Regfan @Newcomb the pace of the game is slow because everyone is just sat on x=y.
So here is something moderately spicy. Delphi feels pretty scummy. This isn't a full PbPA, but it hits most of it.
Post 84 is s a one line quote for her first post of the thread. What about that exchange is so urgent it has to come before an RV or a full catch up? It feels too eager to discredit.
Post 196 is better and worth mentioning because it's the only post that feels completely town to me.
Post 199 is a post I hate everything about. Implying that hard to follow reads come from town is a horrible argument. Reads that make a leap they shouldn't is a great way to catch scum (and a large part of the reason we're all thinking x=y is scum).
Post 220 is an incredible hedge. Asked to give any other read and they go out of their way to leave themselves an escape hatch. Gross.
Post 238 is a weird one, it's subtly defensive of X=y but assigning a reason ("as it feels easy to me to push someone seemingly primarily for being tight-lipped early") that doesn't seem to exist to x=y's Iso Vote to avoid calling it OMGUS. She does restate her suspicion of X=y though, which is slight town +.
Post 311 is her other town +, but I still am slightly pinged her Ophi read. I've not heard of the posting despite claiming busyness tell before, and it feels a bit gross. Is this a real tell or is it a way to throw a bit of mud?
I don't like 344 the quotes he's posting are pretty much in line with the Ophi we're getting. I don't want to scum read for this because Delph hasn't played with Ophi before, but this feels like an intentional misread of Ophi's meta to me. But I can't prove it's intentional.
Already mentioned that I hate 355 but it bears repeating that the middle quote is mudslinging. Comes out of nowhere to defend Iso and attack Vaimes.
The WIND blows through the GAPS in the WIZARD'S TEETH, a GROUPING of STONE PILLARS that has gone UNDISCOVERED in this TIMELINE. If someone were to DISCOVER IT just now, the WHISTLING would sound like this:
Regardless, i will reread the game and see what I can get from it.
You ignored it when I mentioned it earlier (Despite asking for questions) so I'll re-ask it; can you elaborate on why you're content to join 3 of the top 4 wagons (Reasoning attached) as well as why you seem to not have a preference between them given that's what your reason seems to be not to have moved your vote. I need some thought process from you re; reads.
X=y is generally passive and erratic in his posts while also being a huge wagon right now. I have not yet voted on him because that would put him at L=1, which is not good since the day has started just a while ago. Pozzai is scumread by people whom I have a townread on, but his posts are mostly a null-tell to me, which is why I am asking for reasons why he is scummy. Reg, you are on the list because of the same reason Pozzai is on the list, but you appear townier than him so unless you do something really bad, I won't vote you over Pozzai/x=y.
On for a tiny bit before trotting off to work, will mainly be focussing on catching up but if you're around feel free to poke me.
@DelphiBlue why would you consider my readlist to have an impact in your read on me, considering our previous experiences?
@Newcomb
Lets assume scum!Regfan and scum!Newcomb:
Regfan's question to you is basically in that situation "can I push on Pozzai for this reason without it backfiring" to which your answer (again paraphrased) is "I don't think that reason is alignment indicative of Pozzai" after which he votes.
If he's afraid of a backlash, that question fits much better in scumchat, if it's an interaction that Regfan wants to have with a partner in chat, I'd expect their to be a deeper purpose in the outcome. Be that an argument between the two of you, you seemingly convincing him otherwise on his read, just, anything?
There lacks an actual purpose behind the interaction from a w/w interaction, it is not to get you to speak, because you'd already been one of the more active, it was not to somehow create a chasm between the two of you, because neither of you strongly confronted the reads/reasonings, as in 'attempted' to make a deal out of it.
So in short, I consider it along the same lines as "too wolfy to be wolf", "too clumsy to be wolfies", as it lacks any sort of purpose in a w/w scenario.
@Regfan Do you have any resemblances of read on Delphine? You know she and I speak a lot, so why didn't you ask her for a Pozzai read to gain info on the both of us?
Was casually reading through some ISO's earlier and noticed I'm somehow the second top poster in the game, no ******* idea how that's possible given I don't really do one liner posts all that often but that means people really need to pick up their socks. Also be worried Vaimes, I'm coming for you???
@Grapes - I think several of your points about Delphi are playstyle clashes rather than alignment indicative tells for instance while I agree with what you're saying about her entrance in #84 it's something she did fairly similarly in SVM and I've noticed her as a player that does more of her work outside of the game thread than in it. I similarly think her #199 is just her reading/playing the game differently, I had the complte opposite read of her on CF last game and similarly disliked her stance there but she was town. I don't think her 'hedge' in Newcomb in #220 is an issue, I found the read and way it was phrased as fairly genuine. I guess I can see where you're coming from in a few of the other points but don't agree strongly with any of them?
@Ophidia - You're going to have to elaborate more than what you did inside Post #433, got a few questions that I really want answered from you;
1) In your own words what makes you think X=Y is scum other than him being passive?
2) Okay so you have a null read on Pozzais posts but he's a scum read because Vaimes and myself are voting him but you're not town reading me so your reasoning behind scum reading Pozzai is SOLELY that Vaimes is scum reading him, is this correct? If so please explain how a singular town read of yours voting someone leads towards you scum reading the player especially given you've stated your playstyle change is to make your own reads.
3) So your reasoning for including me on the list is that you're town reading the people that are voting me but given you don't have a town read on Pozzai this means you've included me in your list solely due to Nacho voting me. If you've read the thread properly you'd have noticed Nachos actually got a town read on me and has merely kept his vote there as he also didn't want to put X=Y to L-1, so explain the disconnect here please.
None of these three reads from you come across as you actually attempting to solve the game or scumhunt at all, they all come across as you attempting to just agree with the threads consensus and not actually make any waves which hsa a lot of scum motivation behind it. So if you're actually town here I need to hear some of your own genuine thought process. Ignore others reads, what's your stances and why?
Huh, how did Pozzais Post #435 not come up when I made mine.
Also Nacho I is disappointed, was hoping to hear a lot more from you this weekend.
@Pozzai - I have a weakish town read on Delphine, there's a few posts and reads of hers throughout the day phase that have come across as genuine; that said the lack of follow through on elaborating on more reads is slightly concerning. And I have asked her for her read on you, did so in Post #256 where I stated exactly this; "would specifically like your thoughts on Pozzai given you probably know him better than most. which led to an entire conversation about you between us; I don't actually think you've read this thread properly at all and the fact that you've not noticed this just strengthens my scum read on you.
Huh, how did Pozzais Post #435 not come up when I made mine.
Also Nacho I is disappointed, was hoping to hear a lot more from you this weekend.
@Pozzai - I have a weakish town read on Delphine, there's a few posts and reads of hers throughout the day phase that have come across as genuine; that said the lack of follow through on elaborating on more reads is slightly concerning. And I have asked her for her read on you, did so in Post #256 where I stated exactly this; "would specifically like your thoughts on Pozzai given you probably know him better than most. which led to an entire conversation about you between us; I don't actually think you've read this thread properly at all and the fact that you've not noticed this just strengthens my scum read on you.
That was a 'expecting tone to be determable through thread' kind of thing. It was meant to emphasize the 'did' part, as in why was she not your first target to ask for a read.
Vaimes is not happening toDay; if you had sole control over the lynch but couldn't lynch Vaimes, who you got?
I am not trying to lynch Vaimes. His behavior seems town enough to me, as he is poking people with questions and is a universal townread at this point in the game.
That was a 'expecting tone to be determable through thread' kind of thing. It was meant to emphasize the 'did' part, as in why was she not your first target to ask for a read.
You're not making an ounce of sense here and constantly moving the goal posts, lets go over this quickly; I voted you initially in Post #193, started interacting with Delphi inside Post #202 where I asked her for her reads, did a reread of the thread myself and still had a scum read on you inside Post #205 and when Delphi didn't naturally get around to you like I was waiting on I asked her specifically her thoughts on you inside Post #256 stating that she's more familiar with you than I am and thus wanting to know her opinion.
Re possible Iso fear mongering, this is town Iso early game. Late game town Iso plays differently. If that change doesn't happen Iso is scum, but right now this feels very strongly like town Iso.
How much experience do you have with Iso, do you know him outside game as well?
What makes his day1 'town Iso early game', as in what have you seen/not seen from him that makes it clear to you?
Regfan, not really sure how time works over there in Australia, but in AMEROCA, weekend is not over and I'm allowed at least one day a month to get plastered.
@Nacho - Well aware there's another day for you guys over there, was just mostly hoping to actually be online (At a laptop / not at work) at the same time as you catching up so I can get a stronger read on you via actually interacting with you in real time. I'll settle with you actually getting around to it tomorrow though. Weekend is coming to a close over here, only a few more hours of relaxation before setting up everything for the work week ahead, rather depressing really.
That was a 'expecting tone to be determable through thread' kind of thing. It was meant to emphasize the 'did' part, as in why was she not your first target to ask for a read.
You're not making an ounce of sense here and constantly moving the goal posts, lets go over this quickly; I voted you initially in Post #193, started interacting with Delphi inside Post #202 where I asked her for her reads, did a reread of the thread myself and still had a scum read on you inside Post #205 and when Delphi didn't naturally get around to you like I was waiting on I asked her specifically her thoughts on you inside Post #256 stating that she's more familiar with you than I am and thus wanting to know her opinion.
At which point you had already had the darn Newcomb interaction, if you read my question at Delphine in the first post I made today, you'll see I did indeed read the interactions, as that was her conclussions to it. Why was Newcomb your first choice to ask, over Delphine?
@Ophidia: No, as that requires re-reading. If you're uncertain, please refer to any posts that you or X=Y that may have pertained to each other shortly before I made that post.
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I agree with Regfan's analysis RE: Ophidia in #404 (post not found). That said, Regfan, the way I read that X=Y post (#425) was that he was saying I was only wrong about my reconsidered Vaimes read since I hadn't budged on my read on him.
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@Nacho: I mostly find it odd that Ophidia would automatically assume it was an interaction with X=Y that I didn't like. Doesn't that suggest hyperawareness of how he's interacted with X=Y through the game, as well as the fact that it highlights he hasn't really interacted with him?
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@Grapefruit21: How familiar are you with my meta?
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@tom: I'm interested in your X=Y/Typhrous pairing. Tell me more about that, if you don't mind. And yes, that's another reason my vote is permaparked on X=Y RE: #419.
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@Pozzai: I re-read when I need a paradigm shift or the situation calls for it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why was Newcomb your first choice to ask, over Delphine?
Multiple reasons, Newcombs one of the players inside the thread whose opinion I take into account moreso than others especially considering I can normally understand his thought process and reads very well after having worked together in the SVM dead QT and speaking outside of the game during/after it. I also wanted to see if Delphi would get around to commenting on you posts without being prompted on it to give me a better read on her, when that never happened I had to explicitly ask her about her detailed read on you. The fact that this out of everything inside the thread is what you're focusing on makes absolutely no sense coming from town; I see no thought process here that can be you genuinely thinking that this would actually be a tell and again just makes me more confident you're scum here. If you're actually town I need to see some form of thought process & reads from you that actually make an ounce of sense as none of your posting thus far has really done so.
Worth noting at this point that my townreads on Vaimes/Grapefruit are not super strong; I have mild reservations on both of them at this point. I... think that leaves, like - Delphine/Reg as my strongest townreads? Maaaaaybe Typhon sneaks onto that list via early tone, but. Which, ew.
2) Okay so you have a null read on Pozzais posts but he's a scum read because Vaimes and myself are voting him but you're not town reading me so your reasoning behind scum reading Pozzai is SOLELY that Vaimes is scum reading him, is this correct? If so please explain how a singular town read of yours voting someone leads towards you scum reading the player especially given you've stated your playstyle change is to make your own reads.
3) So your reasoning for including me on the list is that you're town reading the people that are voting me but given you don't have a town read on Pozzai this means you've included me in your list solely due to Nacho voting me. If you've read the thread properly you'd have noticed Nachos actually got a town read on me and has merely kept his vote there as he also didn't want to put X=Y to L-1, so explain the disconnect here please.
None of these three reads from you come across as you actually attempting to solve the game or scumhunt at all, they all come across as you attempting to just agree with the threads consensus and not actually make any waves which hsa a lot of scum motivation behind it. So if you're actually town here I need to hear some of your own genuine thought process. Ignore others reads, what's your stances and why?
I like this point a ton.
My problem right now is that with so much of the game low-impact/VLA it's a) affecting my own motivation a bit, and b) making it hard to parse lack of interest in solving the game from just, like... lack of interest in the game.
The continued vibe of complacency in the thread is kind of narrowing the range of options for me to "we're doing great" or "we're nowhere close." I think 2+ wolves in xquealsy/Pozzai/Ophidia is probably the first world here. The second world, where wolves are just kind of floating along because they're happy with the thread direction, implies mafia in at least one of Nacho/Iso/Vaimes, all of whom are seemingly content to push the game in no meaningful direction. Possibly with a side of Delphine, who despite being good on tone and having an at least somewhat novel reason for scumreading xequalsy, feels very much on the sidelines.
I am pretty much at the point where I either want people to meaningfully step up their content, or we just proceed with lynching xequalsy.
Worth noting at this point that my townreads on Vaimes/Grapefruit are not super strong; I have mild reservations on both of them at this point. I... think that leaves, like - Delphine/Reg as my strongest townreads? Maaaaaybe Typhon sneaks onto that list via early tone, but. Which, ew.
2) Okay so you have a null read on Pozzais posts but he's a scum read because Vaimes and myself are voting him but you're not town reading me so your reasoning behind scum reading Pozzai is SOLELY that Vaimes is scum reading him, is this correct? If so please explain how a singular town read of yours voting someone leads towards you scum reading the player especially given you've stated your playstyle change is to make your own reads.
3) So your reasoning for including me on the list is that you're town reading the people that are voting me but given you don't have a town read on Pozzai this means you've included me in your list solely due to Nacho voting me. If you've read the thread properly you'd have noticed Nachos actually got a town read on me and has merely kept his vote there as he also didn't want to put X=Y to L-1, so explain the disconnect here please.
None of these three reads from you come across as you actually attempting to solve the game or scumhunt at all, they all come across as you attempting to just agree with the threads consensus and not actually make any waves which hsa a lot of scum motivation behind it. So if you're actually town here I need to hear some of your own genuine thought process. Ignore others reads, what's your stances and why?
I like this point a ton.
My problem right now is that with so much of the game low-impact/VLA it's a) affecting my own motivation a bit, and b) making it hard to parse lack of interest in solving the game from just, like... lack of interest in the game.
The continued vibe of complacency in the thread is kind of narrowing the range of options for me to "we're doing great" or "we're nowhere close." I think 2+ wolves in xquealsy/Pozzai/Ophidia is probably the first world here. The second world, where wolves are just kind of floating along because they're happy with the thread direction, implies mafia in at least one of Nacho/Iso/Vaimes, all of whom are seemingly content to push the game in no meaningful direction. Possibly with a side of Delphine, who despite being good on tone and having an at least somewhat novel reason for scumreading xequalsy, feels very much on the sidelines.
I am pretty much at the point where I either want people to meaningfully step up their content, or we just proceed with lynching xequalsy.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think the main peg I'm hanging that read on is the way she approached her read on me. It felt genuine, for lack of a better word.
Ah, a self-revolving read, I can dig that, why has your read on Vaimes trended down?
Town energy trending downward. Also, in retrospect, there's a vibe to his overall demeanor that he doesn't quite /care/ about the things he's saying, the questions he's asking. It's not something I've paid much attention to because, I mean, it's Vaimes. He's not obviously mafia, and lynching him D1 unless he's obvious mafia is terrible.
Speaking of caring about the things you're asking, though, Pozzai, I have to say that the things you've poked me over throughout the game haven't really felt like... hm. They feel kind of directionless? Like we're just having a conversation. And not like you're also a town type person who has zero information and is trying to figure ***** out.
I think the main peg I'm hanging that read on is the way she approached her read on me. It felt genuine, for lack of a better word.
Ah, a self-revolving read, I can dig that, why has your read on Vaimes trended down?
Town energy trending downward. Also, in retrospect, there's a vibe to his overall demeanor that he doesn't quite /care/ about the things he's saying, the questions he's asking. It's not something I've paid much attention to because, I mean, it's Vaimes. He's not obviously mafia, and lynching him D1 unless he's obvious mafia is terrible.
Speaking of caring about the things you're asking, though, Pozzai, I have to say that the things you've poked me over throughout the game haven't really felt like... hm. They feel kind of directionless? Like we're just having a conversation. And not like you're also a town type person who has zero information and is trying to figure ***** out.
Do I ever? I have found your attitude to Vaimes... Alien. You're basically trending the opposite way of me, but might be because of different approaches to him, albeit your "he's not obviously mafia" is kind of how I work from. I found him so easily identifiable as scum the last two games I played with him, so his continious lack of scumminess is actually upwards trending for me.
@Iso - I could say the same thing about a Pozzai flip providing information and changing the gamestate as well? If you don't want to re-read what you town read about him earlier at least comment on his more recent posting; I don't find his interaction with myself and questioning to come across as him trying to gamesolve at all.
@Newcomb - Yeah I am, I'm sorting dinner out but can try and muti-task. I'd completely agree with the game being frustrating due to a huge amount of V/LA's and lesser active players. I'm still happy to give most players a few more days to actually get in here and contribute though; I think some of the issue we're dealing with can be attributed with no deadline causing people to have no immediate reason to be here, think it equally leads towards scum lurking and town being lesser motivated. I'm still feeling pretty good about Vaimes being town here (Certainly does feel weird to have a stronger town read on him than you do given last game though) but my town read on Grapes has weakened since his reads post, I don't like the way he's treating his Ophidia read at all.
@Newcomb - Can you run me through exactly where you're at with Ophidia/Nacho/Iso (Don't need hugely detailed sections on each, just a quick summary) since I'd say they're my more iffy reads that we're not gone into as much detail about.
I think I've gone over my approach to Vaimes well enough already.
Vaimes is capable of hitting a "lock town" threshold on D1. He absolutely has not hit that in my mind. Like, sometimes Vaimes will just make a post that I'll go, "yeah, scum!Vaimes is not capable of making that post." He doesn't have a post like that in this game. Absent that, it's just a sliding scale of town energy. If the trend line Vaimes is on right now continues into D3, he's lock mafia. If he makes a town!Vaimes post, he's lock town. If the trendline goes up, he's town.
I'm just sick of talking about Vaimes; he's almost literally self-resolving. Just give it a bit.
In fact I'll just predict the future right now. Here's what's gonna happen. We're not lynching him toDay, he's going to continue to skirt the line of town energy and be ~plausibly in his scumrange~ into late D2, at which point someone will lead a serious push on him and he'll either make a town!Vaimes post, or fold like a cheap card table.
@Newcomb - Can you run me through exactly where you're at with Ophidia/Nacho/Iso (Don't need hugely detailed sections on each, just a quick summary) since I'd say they're my more iffy reads that we're not gone into as much detail about.
Ophidia strikes me as plausibly newbtown, but with an awkwardness and lack of organic process to his posts (like, the vote logic thing you just asked him about is a very, very good point) that makes me viscerally want him dead. I would say I'm thinking he's less town than I did 5 days ago, but not enough that I really feel conviction with pulling the trigger. He strikes me as a pretty inevitable PoE lynch barring some kind of black swan type event.
That kinda segues into Nacho because one of the things I've been most confused about with Nacho was him poking me about my Ophidia read, like chastising me for putting caveats on my townread, while putting very similar caveats on that read himself, earlier. If I'm remembering that whole thing right, it was a while ago. Nacho's been super light on the scumreads / pushes. Which is concerning. For sentimental reasons + the reason that I'm not sure how much good it would do + the reason that he's RL busy or whatever, I'm fine giving him time to catch up. But at this point I kinda want to be ~dazzled~
Iso I've got nothing on. He fits on literally any scumteam, and he's not backing up his reads with analysis, so at this point he's an almost inevitable PoE lynch. I'll grant Nacho the "oh wait it's a basic, not 4 scum" thing is prooooobably a little cheesy to fake as a wolf here, but.
I liked Nachos initial few posts and push towards me as well as some of his other initial stances (ie. Toms playstyle change being null). Disliked his cheerleading type attitude around Tom/Vaimes. His decline in activity and content afterwards is a concern. I liked his pop in stance and read on Iso despite not agreeing with all of it, I've tonally liked a few of his posts throughout the game. Outside of that there's very little memorable posting from him which generally a issue. I'm hoping his content tomorrow helps since I currently don't know where I'd place him on my Town/Null/Scum (S->W) list.
I liked a few of Ophidias posts and responses in the early game tonally, some of it came across as very genuine; his constant reference to his experience level and postponement of actually getting to the thread is a fairly solid scum tell. His reads particularly the ones I've touched on recently don't feel genuine or thought through and make plenty of sense as scum. I'm hoping his response will give me a better read on him but currently think there's a decent chance he's scum.
I think a lot of my issues with Iso may be attributed to playstyle clashes; I'm someone that likes vocalising my thoughts and constantly rereading and analysing the game, he seems to mostly like to just stick to his initial guns. I think his comment re; 4 scum reads and "Wait this is a basic" is slightly more town than not? but really dislike the way he's been treating Pozzai throughout the day particularly not commenting on his recent posting, the level of obnoxiousness in the way he's handling it is something I'm not sure mafia would do? Eh I think I've got a weakish town read on him overall but nothing I'd take to the bank.
Regfan's question to you is basically in that situation "can I push on Pozzai for this reason without it backfiring" to which your answer (again paraphrased) is "I don't think that reason is alignment indicative of Pozzai" after which he votes.
If he's afraid of a backlash, that question fits much better in scumchat, if it's an interaction that Regfan wants to have with a partner in chat, I'd expect their to be a deeper purpose in the outcome. Be that an argument between the two of you, you seemingly convincing him otherwise on his read, just, anything?
There lacks an actual purpose behind the interaction from a w/w interaction, it is not to get you to speak, because you'd already been one of the more active, it was not to somehow create a chasm between the two of you, because neither of you strongly confronted the reads/reasonings, as in 'attempted' to make a deal out of it.
So in short, I consider it along the same lines as "too wolfy to be wolf", "too clumsy to be wolfies", as it lacks any sort of purpose in a w/w scenario.
Hum. I don't really /agree/ with your reasoning here, kind of predicated on that fact that you have both too narrow a range of what you consider potentially w/w and too high an expectation for the purpose of those interactions altogether, but I can at least follow your thought process here. Like, what you're saying tracks based on what Reg and I said if you apply those criteria to it.
What is your current take on Reg, actually? He's probably the person you've interacted with most ITT, you're his top suspect. So. Is he trying to get you mislynched, or is he just a tragically misguided towny?
Ah, your thoughts on Nacho & Iso match mine pretty closely which is pretty nice to see.
I think I've got more of a scum read on Ophidia than you do at the moment.
Re: Ophidia, probably. He's not exactly a townread, I just viscerally don't want to go there. I'm really wary of an Ophidia push right now, because reading his posts, it's just like. Man. If I were a wolf here and knew Ophidia were town, I'd be like "welp, there's my freebie."
My problem right now is that with so much of the game low-impact/VLA it's a) affecting my own motivation a bit, and b) making it hard to parse lack of interest in solving the game from just, like... lack of interest in the game.
The continued vibe of complacency in the thread is kind of narrowing the range of options for me to "we're doing great" or "we're nowhere close." I think 2+ wolves in xquealsy/Pozzai/Ophidia is probably the first world here. The second world, where wolves are just kind of floating along because they're happy with the thread direction, implies mafia in at least one of Nacho/Iso/Vaimes, all of whom are seemingly content to push the game in no meaningful direction. Possibly with a side of Delphine, who despite being good on tone and having an at least somewhat novel reason for scumreading xequalsy, feels very much on the sidelines.
I am pretty much at the point where I either want people to meaningfully step up their content, or we just proceed with lynching xequalsy.
Yeah, this is where I am at as well. I feel like we're all trying our best to find other possible scum but I think ~everyone is down with an xequalsy lynch. I do think enough people have at least tried to push elsewhere while continuing to scumread xequalsy in the background that we have a chance of finding a partner in there if he flips scum, but the main people doing that right now are people I'm townreading. So maybe he's scum and his team has given up on him already or he's town and scum are just sitting back letting it happen.
This is my official intent to vote xequalsy once people are back and caught up.
I'm going to continue to want to lynch Iso as long as he is playing like this instead of, you know, well. But, like, whatever man. Pozzai, Ophidia, and Typhon are the rest of my "not town" reads at this point, and it feels too consensusy even as I type the names.
Someone asked why Typh/xequalsy looked aligned to me. I've felt their interactions had an air of theater about them. And xequalsy's read on Typhon in #353 and #389 looks very much w/w. But that world was eliminated for some by having a short derpversation on page 1 to find out he is Weiyaoli, which he probably wouldn't know even if they were buddies? I just don't get that.
Regardless, i will reread the game and see what I can get from it.
Who in this game do you see as "advancing the gamestate" more than me?
To me, when I look at that read on me, it seems like there a pretty huge disconnect between the things he's talking about, and anything having to do with my alignment. It seems incredibly... arbitrary, I guess? It very much does not feel like someone reading my posts and trying to discern my alignment.
Yeah, that was definitely one thing that made me raise my eyebrows at that post. Dude's like, "your vote on xequalsy was too consensus", and I don't get how that's a thought that goes through your head when I was the very first one to push him. Like... I'm not following anyone, you're all following me. I do feel a fair bit of just visceral "come the **** on dude" about that, so it felt like something I wanted to get more opinions on. I... don't really know if it's alignment indicative. Maaaaybe scum wouldn't be that sloppy?
I don't really feel your point on him commenting on himself; it sounds bad viscerally but I've seen plenty of town talk about themselves in that kind of shady, self-aware way. I think the point about how he talked about Iso was stronger. It read like positioning, not genuine analysis.
Your point on x=y and Pozzai is well-taken, I just... don't feel Pozzai as strongly as I do x=y. However, the longer the game goes without any real counterwagon happening, the more I feel the itch to upset the apple cart. I'm really, really trying to not be so antsy with my reads this game but ehhh it's not exactly a switch I can just turn off.
Delve a little bit. Why do they seem like good candidates? Do you think that could be the team exactly? Why, or why not?
I don't get why you have to be prompted to talk about this stuff. I keep having this "how is this coming from town" / "but would a wolf really be this blatant about lack of interest in the game?" back and forth with myself on Ophidia's posts.
I feel that last one. It's the weekend now though, so. Step Up 2: The Streets.
What is the nuance in tom looking at a Westeros game of yours versus Delphine going back to look at games to address Typhon's "newb card" comment? Like, what makes one a town thing and one a null thing in your opinion?
Ehh, that part of his post to me pinged a lot more on my "this guy is just too damn earnest to be a wolf" radar. Like, it just seems... genuinely confused where Iso's going with that, which is a position I can understand.
I think that early game exchange between Typhon / xequalsy is pretty unlikely to come from partners.
I might!
I don't think I agree with Grapefruit's definition of advancing the game state, but it has remained consistent (see #92). He can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think he sees you making these big posts with lots of analysis but it doesn't look like catching scum to him. I don't think it's a good read, I just see how he got it and it doesn't seem to come from a scummy place.
Do you think the fluffy page 1 exchange is a hard unalignment? Why?
Wow you must have had a lot to drink.
This is abolutely not how I read the entire exchange and I think you're misreading it too. X=Y stated that Iso had been wrong once already and it was Iso that brought up that X=Y was referring to Vaimes (When X=Y never did anything of that sort inside his post), X=Y's following post where he elaborates that he is indeed talking about himself also fits that. I do like your points about his Pozzai read coming across really badly though.
You ignored it when I mentioned it earlier (Despite asking for questions) so I'll re-ask it; can you elaborate on why you're content to join 3 of the top 4 wagons (Reasoning attached) as well as why you seem to not have a preference between them given that's what your reason seems to be not to have moved your vote. I need some thought process from you re; reads.
Re: the validity of that read no one was doing much to advance the game state, but newcomb was putting a heck of a lot more words into it so I was holding you to a higher standard. I wanted to make sure you weren't coasting by just giving IIOA. And it overall wasn't a great read in the first place but your response was very towny and makes me feel better that I'm not being pocketed.
@Regfan @Newcomb the pace of the game is slow because everyone is just sat on x=y.
So here is something moderately spicy. Delphi feels pretty scummy. This isn't a full PbPA, but it hits most of it.
Post 84 is s a one line quote for her first post of the thread. What about that exchange is so urgent it has to come before an RV or a full catch up? It feels too eager to discredit.
Post 196 is better and worth mentioning because it's the only post that feels completely town to me.
Post 199 is a post I hate everything about. Implying that hard to follow reads come from town is a horrible argument. Reads that make a leap they shouldn't is a great way to catch scum (and a large part of the reason we're all thinking x=y is scum).
Post 220 is an incredible hedge. Asked to give any other read and they go out of their way to leave themselves an escape hatch. Gross.
Post 238 is a weird one, it's subtly defensive of X=y but assigning a reason ("as it feels easy to me to push someone seemingly primarily for being tight-lipped early") that doesn't seem to exist to x=y's Iso Vote to avoid calling it OMGUS. She does restate her suspicion of X=y though, which is slight town +.
Post 311 is her other town +, but I still am slightly pinged her Ophi read. I've not heard of the posting despite claiming busyness tell before, and it feels a bit gross. Is this a real tell or is it a way to throw a bit of mud?
I don't like 344 the quotes he's posting are pretty much in line with the Ophi we're getting. I don't want to scum read for this because Delph hasn't played with Ophi before, but this feels like an intentional misread of Ophi's meta to me. But I can't prove it's intentional.
Already mentioned that I hate 355 but it bears repeating that the middle quote is mudslinging. Comes out of nowhere to defend Iso and attack Vaimes.
Vote: DelphiBlue
I'm very happy with either right now. Not opposed to the X=y's lynch at all just expanding on rereads like promised in my 373.
DelphiBlue - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Iso - 2 (xequalsy, tomsloger)
Pozzai - 2 (Vaimes, Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 4 (Typhrous, Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb)
Not Voting - 0 ()
"Are you listening to this infuriating whistl-"
You move away from the ROCKS.
I think you may be looking for reasons to scumread people, rather than letting it come naturally. I've noticed it more than once now. Why is that?
X=y is generally passive and erratic in his posts while also being a huge wagon right now. I have not yet voted on him because that would put him at L=1, which is not good since the day has started just a while ago. Pozzai is scumread by people whom I have a townread on, but his posts are mostly a null-tell to me, which is why I am asking for reasons why he is scummy. Reg, you are on the list because of the same reason Pozzai is on the list, but you appear townier than him so unless you do something really bad, I won't vote you over Pozzai/x=y.
@DelphiBlue why would you consider my readlist to have an impact in your read on me, considering our previous experiences?
@Newcomb
Lets assume scum!Regfan and scum!Newcomb:
Regfan's question to you is basically in that situation "can I push on Pozzai for this reason without it backfiring" to which your answer (again paraphrased) is "I don't think that reason is alignment indicative of Pozzai" after which he votes.
If he's afraid of a backlash, that question fits much better in scumchat, if it's an interaction that Regfan wants to have with a partner in chat, I'd expect their to be a deeper purpose in the outcome. Be that an argument between the two of you, you seemingly convincing him otherwise on his read, just, anything?
There lacks an actual purpose behind the interaction from a w/w interaction, it is not to get you to speak, because you'd already been one of the more active, it was not to somehow create a chasm between the two of you, because neither of you strongly confronted the reads/reasonings, as in 'attempted' to make a deal out of it.
So in short, I consider it along the same lines as "too wolfy to be wolf", "too clumsy to be wolfies", as it lacks any sort of purpose in a w/w scenario.
@Regfan Do you have any resemblances of read on Delphine? You know she and I speak a lot, so why didn't you ask her for a Pozzai read to gain info on the both of us?
@Grapes - I think several of your points about Delphi are playstyle clashes rather than alignment indicative tells for instance while I agree with what you're saying about her entrance in #84 it's something she did fairly similarly in SVM and I've noticed her as a player that does more of her work outside of the game thread than in it. I similarly think her #199 is just her reading/playing the game differently, I had the complte opposite read of her on CF last game and similarly disliked her stance there but she was town. I don't think her 'hedge' in Newcomb in #220 is an issue, I found the read and way it was phrased as fairly genuine. I guess I can see where you're coming from in a few of the other points but don't agree strongly with any of them?
@Ophidia - You're going to have to elaborate more than what you did inside Post #433, got a few questions that I really want answered from you;
1) In your own words what makes you think X=Y is scum other than him being passive?
2) Okay so you have a null read on Pozzais posts but he's a scum read because Vaimes and myself are voting him but you're not town reading me so your reasoning behind scum reading Pozzai is SOLELY that Vaimes is scum reading him, is this correct? If so please explain how a singular town read of yours voting someone leads towards you scum reading the player especially given you've stated your playstyle change is to make your own reads.
3) So your reasoning for including me on the list is that you're town reading the people that are voting me but given you don't have a town read on Pozzai this means you've included me in your list solely due to Nacho voting me. If you've read the thread properly you'd have noticed Nachos actually got a town read on me and has merely kept his vote there as he also didn't want to put X=Y to L-1, so explain the disconnect here please.
None of these three reads from you come across as you actually attempting to solve the game or scumhunt at all, they all come across as you attempting to just agree with the threads consensus and not actually make any waves which hsa a lot of scum motivation behind it. So if you're actually town here I need to hear some of your own genuine thought process. Ignore others reads, what's your stances and why?
Also Nacho I is disappointed, was hoping to hear a lot more from you this weekend.
@Pozzai - I have a weakish town read on Delphine, there's a few posts and reads of hers throughout the day phase that have come across as genuine; that said the lack of follow through on elaborating on more reads is slightly concerning. And I have asked her for her read on you, did so in Post #256 where I stated exactly this; "would specifically like your thoughts on Pozzai given you probably know him better than most. which led to an entire conversation about you between us; I don't actually think you've read this thread properly at all and the fact that you've not noticed this just strengthens my scum read on you.
That was a 'expecting tone to be determable through thread' kind of thing. It was meant to emphasize the 'did' part, as in why was she not your first target to ask for a read.
Which questions of Vaimes have you liked?
You're not making an ounce of sense here and constantly moving the goal posts, lets go over this quickly; I voted you initially in Post #193, started interacting with Delphi inside Post #202 where I asked her for her reads, did a reread of the thread myself and still had a scum read on you inside Post #205 and when Delphi didn't naturally get around to you like I was waiting on I asked her specifically her thoughts on you inside Post #256 stating that she's more familiar with you than I am and thus wanting to know her opinion.
How much experience do you have with Iso, do you know him outside game as well?
What makes his day1 'town Iso early game', as in what have you seen/not seen from him that makes it clear to you?
At which point you had already had the darn Newcomb interaction, if you read my question at Delphine in the first post I made today, you'll see I did indeed read the interactions, as that was her conclussions to it. Why was Newcomb your first choice to ask, over Delphine?
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I agree with Regfan's analysis RE: Ophidia in #404 (post not found). That said, Regfan, the way I read that X=Y post (#425) was that he was saying I was only wrong about my reconsidered Vaimes read since I hadn't budged on my read on him.
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@Nacho: I mostly find it odd that Ophidia would automatically assume it was an interaction with X=Y that I didn't like. Doesn't that suggest hyperawareness of how he's interacted with X=Y through the game, as well as the fact that it highlights he hasn't really interacted with him?
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@Grapefruit21: How familiar are you with my meta?
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@tom: I'm interested in your X=Y/Typhrous pairing. Tell me more about that, if you don't mind. And yes, that's another reason my vote is permaparked on X=Y RE: #419.
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@Pozzai: I re-read when I need a paradigm shift or the situation calls for it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Multiple reasons, Newcombs one of the players inside the thread whose opinion I take into account moreso than others especially considering I can normally understand his thought process and reads very well after having worked together in the SVM dead QT and speaking outside of the game during/after it. I also wanted to see if Delphi would get around to commenting on you posts without being prompted on it to give me a better read on her, when that never happened I had to explicitly ask her about her detailed read on you. The fact that this out of everything inside the thread is what you're focusing on makes absolutely no sense coming from town; I see no thought process here that can be you genuinely thinking that this would actually be a tell and again just makes me more confident you're scum here. If you're actually town I need to see some form of thought process & reads from you that actually make an ounce of sense as none of your posting thus far has really done so.
I like this point a ton.
My problem right now is that with so much of the game low-impact/VLA it's a) affecting my own motivation a bit, and b) making it hard to parse lack of interest in solving the game from just, like... lack of interest in the game.
The continued vibe of complacency in the thread is kind of narrowing the range of options for me to "we're doing great" or "we're nowhere close." I think 2+ wolves in xquealsy/Pozzai/Ophidia is probably the first world here. The second world, where wolves are just kind of floating along because they're happy with the thread direction, implies mafia in at least one of Nacho/Iso/Vaimes, all of whom are seemingly content to push the game in no meaningful direction. Possibly with a side of Delphine, who despite being good on tone and having an at least somewhat novel reason for scumreading xequalsy, feels very much on the sidelines.
I am pretty much at the point where I either want people to meaningfully step up their content, or we just proceed with lynching xequalsy.
Is your Delphine point mainly on tone?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ah, a self-revolving read, I can dig that, why has your read on Vaimes trended down?
Oh wait, did I say hilarious? I meant awful.
Town energy trending downward. Also, in retrospect, there's a vibe to his overall demeanor that he doesn't quite /care/ about the things he's saying, the questions he's asking. It's not something I've paid much attention to because, I mean, it's Vaimes. He's not obviously mafia, and lynching him D1 unless he's obvious mafia is terrible.
Speaking of caring about the things you're asking, though, Pozzai, I have to say that the things you've poked me over throughout the game haven't really felt like... hm. They feel kind of directionless? Like we're just having a conversation. And not like you're also a town type person who has zero information and is trying to figure ***** out.
Do I ever? I have found your attitude to Vaimes... Alien. You're basically trending the opposite way of me, but might be because of different approaches to him, albeit your "he's not obviously mafia" is kind of how I work from. I found him so easily identifiable as scum the last two games I played with him, so his continious lack of scumminess is actually upwards trending for me.
So depressed that you don't consider me man enough for you!
@Newcomb - Yeah I am, I'm sorting dinner out but can try and muti-task. I'd completely agree with the game being frustrating due to a huge amount of V/LA's and lesser active players. I'm still happy to give most players a few more days to actually get in here and contribute though; I think some of the issue we're dealing with can be attributed with no deadline causing people to have no immediate reason to be here, think it equally leads towards scum lurking and town being lesser motivated. I'm still feeling pretty good about Vaimes being town here (Certainly does feel weird to have a stronger town read on him than you do given last game though) but my town read on Grapes has weakened since his reads post, I don't like the way he's treating his Ophidia read at all.
@Newcomb - Can you run me through exactly where you're at with Ophidia/Nacho/Iso (Don't need hugely detailed sections on each, just a quick summary) since I'd say they're my more iffy reads that we're not gone into as much detail about.
Vaimes is capable of hitting a "lock town" threshold on D1. He absolutely has not hit that in my mind. Like, sometimes Vaimes will just make a post that I'll go, "yeah, scum!Vaimes is not capable of making that post." He doesn't have a post like that in this game. Absent that, it's just a sliding scale of town energy. If the trend line Vaimes is on right now continues into D3, he's lock mafia. If he makes a town!Vaimes post, he's lock town. If the trendline goes up, he's town.
I'm just sick of talking about Vaimes; he's almost literally self-resolving. Just give it a bit.
In fact I'll just predict the future right now. Here's what's gonna happen. We're not lynching him toDay, he's going to continue to skirt the line of town energy and be ~plausibly in his scumrange~ into late D2, at which point someone will lead a serious push on him and he'll either make a town!Vaimes post, or fold like a cheap card table.
So, what about the alignment thing you asked about, did it give you anything?
Ophidia strikes me as plausibly newbtown, but with an awkwardness and lack of organic process to his posts (like, the vote logic thing you just asked him about is a very, very good point) that makes me viscerally want him dead. I would say I'm thinking he's less town than I did 5 days ago, but not enough that I really feel conviction with pulling the trigger. He strikes me as a pretty inevitable PoE lynch barring some kind of black swan type event.
That kinda segues into Nacho because one of the things I've been most confused about with Nacho was him poking me about my Ophidia read, like chastising me for putting caveats on my townread, while putting very similar caveats on that read himself, earlier. If I'm remembering that whole thing right, it was a while ago. Nacho's been super light on the scumreads / pushes. Which is concerning. For sentimental reasons + the reason that I'm not sure how much good it would do + the reason that he's RL busy or whatever, I'm fine giving him time to catch up. But at this point I kinda want to be ~dazzled~
Iso I've got nothing on. He fits on literally any scumteam, and he's not backing up his reads with analysis, so at this point he's an almost inevitable PoE lynch. I'll grant Nacho the "oh wait it's a basic, not 4 scum" thing is prooooobably a little cheesy to fake as a wolf here, but.
My answer that is
Huh?
First post I made since I came back, the Reg/you NKA thing.
Pretty much where I myself are on them is that;
I liked Nachos initial few posts and push towards me as well as some of his other initial stances (ie. Toms playstyle change being null). Disliked his cheerleading type attitude around Tom/Vaimes. His decline in activity and content afterwards is a concern. I liked his pop in stance and read on Iso despite not agreeing with all of it, I've tonally liked a few of his posts throughout the game. Outside of that there's very little memorable posting from him which generally a issue. I'm hoping his content tomorrow helps since I currently don't know where I'd place him on my Town/Null/Scum (S->W) list.
I liked a few of Ophidias posts and responses in the early game tonally, some of it came across as very genuine; his constant reference to his experience level and postponement of actually getting to the thread is a fairly solid scum tell. His reads particularly the ones I've touched on recently don't feel genuine or thought through and make plenty of sense as scum. I'm hoping his response will give me a better read on him but currently think there's a decent chance he's scum.
I think a lot of my issues with Iso may be attributed to playstyle clashes; I'm someone that likes vocalising my thoughts and constantly rereading and analysing the game, he seems to mostly like to just stick to his initial guns. I think his comment re; 4 scum reads and "Wait this is a basic" is slightly more town than not? but really dislike the way he's been treating Pozzai throughout the day particularly not commenting on his recent posting, the level of obnoxiousness in the way he's handling it is something I'm not sure mafia would do? Eh I think I've got a weakish town read on him overall but nothing I'd take to the bank.
I think I've got more of a scum read on Ophidia than you do at the moment.
Alright I've got to head off, should be able to get on tomorrow at work.
Hum. I don't really /agree/ with your reasoning here, kind of predicated on that fact that you have both too narrow a range of what you consider potentially w/w and too high an expectation for the purpose of those interactions altogether, but I can at least follow your thought process here. Like, what you're saying tracks based on what Reg and I said if you apply those criteria to it.
What is your current take on Reg, actually? He's probably the person you've interacted with most ITT, you're his top suspect. So. Is he trying to get you mislynched, or is he just a tragically misguided towny?
Re: Ophidia, probably. He's not exactly a townread, I just viscerally don't want to go there. I'm really wary of an Ophidia push right now, because reading his posts, it's just like. Man. If I were a wolf here and knew Ophidia were town, I'd be like "welp, there's my freebie."
Yeah, this is where I am at as well. I feel like we're all trying our best to find other possible scum but I think ~everyone is down with an xequalsy lynch. I do think enough people have at least tried to push elsewhere while continuing to scumread xequalsy in the background that we have a chance of finding a partner in there if he flips scum, but the main people doing that right now are people I'm townreading. So maybe he's scum and his team has given up on him already or he's town and scum are just sitting back letting it happen.
This is my official intent to vote xequalsy once people are back and caught up.
I'm going to continue to want to lynch Iso as long as he is playing like this instead of, you know, well. But, like, whatever man. Pozzai, Ophidia, and Typhon are the rest of my "not town" reads at this point, and it feels too consensusy even as I type the names.
Someone asked why Typh/xequalsy looked aligned to me. I've felt their interactions had an air of theater about them. And xequalsy's read on Typhon in #353 and #389 looks very much w/w. But that world was eliminated for some by having a short derpversation on page 1 to find out he is Weiyaoli, which he probably wouldn't know even if they were buddies? I just don't get that.