Finally finished reading the thread, going over it on a laptop is 100x easier, I won't have internet access tomorrow outside of reading the game on my phone at times so collecting my thoughts here should help.
Still think Nachos early push on me in Post #8 and attempts to get people to join him in, Post #10, Post #11 are a weak town tell and still think the brazen discussion re; pocketing in Post #18 is less likely to come from scum. I also like his assessment of the Tom change in playstyle in Post #52. Nachos cheer leading of the "Too strong a read early game" reasoning in Post #111 is a real problem given he knows that I state my reads in the early game and they often change; he's seen me be attacked for "too strong" as town before re; Forest Fire. Town read on him as weakened rather significantly, really want to hear some reads and thoughts from him as well as an explanation re; his #111.
Typhons reaction towards Nacho inside Post #20 to comes across as him being very relaxed which I'd doubt he was as scum early on in this playerlist but the complete lack of content or activity after that is a concern given his normal activity levels as well as something he PM'ed me about pregame. Fairly null on him overall.
Ophidias empty RVS vote while ignoring everything else in Post #37 is something I still think is more likely to come from scum. I liked Ophidias Post #154 particularly his answer about Grape, I like his question Newcomb as to why those posts were picked and think the town read -> scum read change on Grapes inside the post is one that scums unlikely to make given the threads consensus on Grapes. Got a weak town read on him overall.
I do also like Toms read of Typhon in Post #56, his point about the lack of analysis from Typhon at the time is a reasonable one and like him acknowledging that it is still early on there too. I think Tom questioning me about how Nachos approached me as scum in Post #74 has plenty of town motivation behind it as does him hunting down some of my meta to show Vaimes inside Post #105. Actually feel pretty good that he's town here.
Went into this earlier but I liked both Post #59 and Post #60 from Grapes, the paranoia of Tom in them feels very genuine. I think his reaction towards being town read in Post #82 is a very strong town tell, don't imagine scum raise their suspicions of being town read in the thread. I also liked his recent interaction with me, I'm pretty confident he's town here.
Liked most of Newcombs analysis of Vaimes inside Post #70 and most of it mirrors how I expect him to attempt to read Vaimes. I agree with most of the W/W teams that Newcomb is crossing out in Post #150 and can follow his logic behind them and like the questioning put forward to Orphidia. Didn't like his brief comment about the Pozzai read inside #190 and Post #191 but hoping his answer tomorrow about this will help settle it. Got a weak town read on him at the moment but really want to hear his Pozzai read.
Vaimes's stance on the game inside Post #71 comes across as genuine; understand most of his stances there other than him considering me an entertaining poster. I think Vaimes's whole "Tried putting myself in Regfans shoes" section of Post #94 comes across as very town; can understand where he's coming from and typically find most players that take issue with my play in that regard to be town. Going over his interactions and reads throughout the game I'm fairly sure he's town here.
Don't like Xequalsys Post #89 comes across as a very forced way to interject himself into the game and conversation and looks like attempting to take a mediator role rather than solving alignments. Got a weak scum read on him overall.
Still dislike Pozzais stream of catching up posts; none of them really have any reads or stances in them and the questions all feel very throwaway. I really think his stance on Tom inside Post #126 and Post #129 makes very little sense, it a) Ignores that others have mentioned that Tom taking this playstyle change was planned pre-game and a null tell and b) The suggestion that the change is a purposeful one to have more town reads stated is something that doesn't add up and think there's a decent chance he's scum here.
Conflicted about what to make of Isos catch up reads inside Post #171 and Post #172, the reads themselves are something I very much disagree with and can't see particularly the Grapes/Vaimes/Pozzai ones but not sure if I see scum faking the "Oh it's a basic 3 scum not 4" type post.
Also not sure where to place Delphi at the moment, badly need more stances from her.
Currently at; Town (S->W): Grapes, Vaimes, Tom [Huge Gap], Newcomb, Ophidia, Nacho Null: Typhon, Iso, Delphi Scum (S->W):Pozzai, Xequals
American but I've migrated to Australia and love it here. Picked up a few of the colloquialisms in the meantime.
Hoping you're not in Sydney, the weather here in the past month has been disgustingly bad, constant 40C days; timing of you finishing work makes me think you're over at WA which isn't much better. Curious to hear an American migrants thoughts on a very important matter, if answered correctly will result in your lynch; cricket a good or bad sport?
And with that I'm heading to bed, see you all in ~24 hours, probably won't phone post much at work tomorrow, my boss will be in the office then and unlike Tammy I can't just sleep with them and get away with anything.
Alright. I have finally overcome both my emotional and literal hangover from the Superbowl (I should have I was going to jinx myself posting sad Brady), so lets talk mafia.
Vote: xequalsy
It's a bit of an activity tell in that I think scum are more likely than town to lurk in this playerlist (yes, I know I was away for a day, do as I say not as I do, etc.), but.
It's not just an activity tell.
Lets talk about 9. So you came into the game, didn't vote with your first post, and then blank voted me with your second post. What's the thought process there? Specifically, why vote there if you didn't with your first vote, and why me of your 12 options? What were you looking for with your questions to Grapefruit? Can you run me through the mindset in which you made 89?
Towny Posts
#70 provides orginal opinion on Vaimes. A weak town post. But Newcomb, why did you say this:
"Vaimes is the one player in this game who I'm fully confident I'll have a strong read on by the end of the Day"?
Post #150 finally gives content, and pretty good ones at that. He is not townclearing Nacho like the rest of us were doing, and his point on Regfan is solid. He also made a good comment about universal townreads. He is also the first to ask me questions, so that's nice. But why specifically Grapefruit?
Scummy Posts
Many of his posts in pages 1 and 2 were mostly gifs and fluffy posts, which contribute nothing to town. I don't like it.
I like how tom called him out for making a votecount post on page 2. Sounds wierd to me as well.'
It's not impossible that I'm being unfair here on the first bit, so I'm accepting hip checks from people (well, some of you), but Ophidia has 16 posts. Would anyone like to guess how many times s/he mentions or implies their newness and/or inexperience?
Conservatively 7. A majority of those are direct statements rather than implications.
That unsettles me a bit, as it's a thing that makes more sense coming from scum than town in a vacuum (in a vacuum meaning not under pressure).
To elaborate, I might expect to see it from town under pressure and maybe once or twice at the beginning of the game, because that makes sense. You screwed up because you didn't understand something properly? Of course you'd explain. You just want to mention it to everyone at the beginning? Yeah, sure, that's fair.
But new scum have more important reasons to make sure that /everybody/ knows that they should be considered a breed apart, namely to sort of deflect them from having to match the level of play or scrutiny of most players (an example being how his fluffiness used his meta like a spear and skewered town on it in SVM because none of us were holding him to the level of play that we were holding the rest of the game). This is especially a concern with scum having daychat for a limited time at the beginning of the game - that well of resources is getting cut off soon, and Ophidia will have to stand on his/her own (with a mentor, but even so). Establishing "I'm super new and don't know things" right at the start has potential to allow them to float along with minimal direct coaching even if there were some miscues.
So yeah, I haven't cared for that. I also agree that the entrance was awkward, although at the time I felt it was more null than anything and I'm a bit wary of letting any potential conf bias into my game here after SVM.
Hrmm. The newbie mindset does appear to be there but I'm having a hard time deciding if that changes my points.
I'm currently townreading Grapefruit, Vaimes, lightly Newcomb, and even more lightly Reg. I know Grapefruit has claimed a weird scum soulread, Vaimes has expressed some suspicion, and Newcomb and Reg have light townread them in a non-committal sort of way, but any hard opinions here? Am I seeing things in something that's kinda shrug territory that's not actually there?
Towny Posts
#70 provides orginal opinion on Vaimes. A weak town post. But Newcomb, why did you say this:
"Vaimes is the one player in this game who I'm fully confident I'll have a strong read on by the end of the Day"?
Post #150 finally gives content, and pretty good ones at that. He is not townclearing Nacho like the rest of us were doing, and his point on Regfan is solid. He also made a good comment about universal townreads. He is also the first to ask me questions, so that's nice. But why specifically Grapefruit?
Scummy Posts
Many of his posts in pages 1 and 2 were mostly gifs and fluffy posts, which contribute nothing to town. I don't like it.
I like how tom called him out for making a votecount post on page 2. Sounds wierd to me as well.'
Hope this works.
Actually, Ophidia, let's talk about this.
I won't garcia your questions to Newcomb (that's when you answer a question asked to someone else, ftr), but let's just look at your conclusions. You have 3 points there - two are things you townread and asked questions about which appear to be aimed at clarifying rather than disagreeing with his points (correct me if I'm wrong), and one is a thing you scumread (fluff posts in RVS).
So what's the final conclusion? What did you learn from your analysis of Newcomb? Did it help you understand him or the gamestate any better? Where do you plan to look next?
Towny Posts
#70 provides orginal opinion on Vaimes. A weak town post. But Newcomb, why did you say this:
"Vaimes is the one player in this game who I'm fully confident I'll have a strong read on by the end of the Day"?
Post #150 finally gives content, and pretty good ones at that. He is not townclearing Nacho like the rest of us were doing, and his point on Regfan is solid. He also made a good comment about universal townreads. He is also the first to ask me questions, so that's nice. But why specifically Grapefruit?
Scummy Posts
Many of his posts in pages 1 and 2 were mostly gifs and fluffy posts, which contribute nothing to town. I don't like it.
I like how tom called him out for making a votecount post on page 2. Sounds wierd to me as well.'
Hope this works.
Actually, Ophidia, let's talk about this.
I won't garcia your questions to Newcomb (that's when you answer a question asked to someone else, ftr), but let's just look at your conclusions. You have 3 points there - two are things you townread and asked questions about which appear to be aimed at clarifying rather than disagreeing with his points (correct me if I'm wrong), and one is a thing you scumread (fluff posts in RVS).
So what's the final conclusion? What did you learn from your analysis of Newcomb? Did it help you understand him or the gamestate any better? Where do you plan to look next?
I have a lean town read on Newcomb, as he eventually stops his fluff posts and starts to provide content. It does give me a clearer picture on him, as I am too lazy to read in depth without people telling me to. I plan to read more on Regfan and Pozzai next.
@Vaimes, good to know. Anything to add or comment on about what I have pointed out so far, or is that just general approval? Either way, thanks for the filler post. I kinda feel bad about spamming endlessly on a forum that isn't DLP.
@Nacho A lot has been made of Reg's opening where he threw down a town read on you. He's appealed to meta a bit there wrt to you - does that track from your perspective? You talked about it at one point, but it wasn't apparent if you we saying what you understood tom to be saying to Vaimes, or if your actual opinion is that town!Reg would have been more cautious. How are you reading Reg currently?
Can't say I've kept up with the thread today - had a presentation I had to work on where I got grilled in so I'm not in the best of moods. I'm going to do a read through now and post some thoughts in a bit, let me know if there is anything in particular you'd like a response/answer to please.
Err, I hit reply, so Ophidia should see it, but I can see how 218 would be unclear in who it was addressed to. It was them. Sorry, still trying to get used to this site.
@xequalsy Sorry about your day, man. I'd like to direct you to 209 when you get a chance to look and respond.
@Xequalsy Since a third person has jumped on board with that read I'm going to assume it's a fairly strong read. And my opinion on Vaimes hasn't changed since 80.
Re tom being opportunistic: just because a read is well progressed doesn't mean it isn't opportunistic. Giving a town read doesn't advance the game state, and it's main purpose would be to try and earn town cred and it's more important to be town read as scum than town.
I disagree - I just spectated a game where tom got mislynched for giving out fake reads. He seems to be playing differently here, but the point was that I don't see giving out town reads as necessarily buddying you. It creates discussion for one - people will definitely jump on or discuss town reads that seem weak or not well reasoned. The question was because people don't always state the strength of their reads (and represent them as stronger than they actually are), and I doubt a read he gave on #81 (not too long after RVS) was likely to mean all that much.
Regarding the wordiness/confidence of Regfan's read (@Vaimes #94) - I can't speak to the accuracy of the meta part of it, but I did get the vibe from Nacho that they were having fun and was super relaxed and came away from it with a town lean. I get tom's point about it though that he seems to be overselling a little the strength of the meta read based on the actual experience he has playing with Nacho.
(Fake Edit: Going back to this, I'm not sure I like his response #143 - agree with Vaimes's point there. He kinda doubled down on it being a relatively strong read that I don't really see as earned)
Reading xyxalkkqulaululayl and Typhon as likely not w/w for that early exchange. Weiyaoli, can I just call you "wei" or something?
Sure, but my display name is literally X=Y if that's easier.
Newcomb's post is hitting all the right notes - I was definitely nodding along to most of it, but there is this focus on pointing out what probably isn't w/w that bothers me a little, not too sure how relevant that is this early in D1. Not sure I'm explaining myself correctly, but like I'm not really sure how useful that is, creating these little links/non-links on not a lot.
How was Newcomb's lack of content different from anyone else who fluff posted in RVS - I assume you didn't scumread everyone from that section?
Newcomb's lack of content extended to page 2, while others stopped early.
Ehh. Nacho and I were both still meme'ing/fluffing on page two. Was it especially scummy for Newcomb for some reason, or are/were you scumreading me/Nacho as well? If you find that behavior to be scummy, why not pressure me or Nacho next?
Equally, why are you planning to examine Pozzai and Reg next? Names out of a hat, or are there specific reasons? I know that those are a lot of questions, but I'm trying to see in your head a bit and I'm having a hard time with it.
I'll be honest, I glazed over most of the walls and the spam.
Pretty sure the scum team is Grapefruit, xequalsy, regfan, and Vaimes.
You're welcome.
-
@tom, Nacho, & Pozzai: Hi! Wanna be in a townbloc with me?
There's hasn't been that many posts...
Any elaboration on this (specifically why vaimes+regfan)?
Regarding Ophidia, I like that their style so far seems to be to type out their entire thought process on things. There is a lot of self awareness, but I dunno, I kinda see that as a positive? Like answering what seems to be every question directed at them earnestly.
@Regfan (#185):
Regarding your Pozzai read, I don't really follow why not realising tom was apeing someone else's playstyle is necessarily that big a thing to miss? I definitely got the impression he was basically reacting post by post and to people replying to him in real time. I kinda feel tom's point that Pozzai basically just prodded people and didn't really comment on you specially as a much more interesting point.
Lets talk about 9. So you came into the game, didn't vote with your first post, and then blank voted me with your second post. What's the thought process there? Specifically, why vote there if you didn't with your first vote, and why me of your 12 options? What were you looking for with your questions to Grapefruit? Can you run me through the mindset in which you made 89?
I was planning to naked vote the next person who voted. Not sure I got a lot out of it since you (and everyone else) basically ignored it and disappeared, but it's definitely interesting you're the one who decided to pick it up again.
Not sure if my last post answers fully your question, but the idea was to understand if Grapefruit saw the townreads on him as being particularly strong. It kinda felt like an overreaction to me that he was scum-reading tom (the one who he already acknowledged to be "gimmicky") based on throwing out an early town read. (regarding my question about Vaimes, that was from misreading that he liked Vaimes whilst skimming instead of him being also apprehensive about Vaimes and confused at the contradiction)
How was Newcomb's lack of content different from anyone else who fluff posted in RVS - I assume you didn't scumread everyone from that section?
Newcomb's lack of content extended to page 2, while others stopped early.
Ehh. Nacho and I were both still meme'ing/fluffing on page two. Was it especially scummy for Newcomb for some reason, or are/were you scumreading me/Nacho as well? If you find that behavior to be scummy, why not pressure me or Nacho next?
Equally, why are you planning to examine Pozzai and Reg next? Names out of a hat, or are there specific reasons? I know that those are a lot of questions, but I'm trying to see in your head a bit and I'm having a hard time with it.
I see all fluff posting as a weak scum read, but since I am asked to analyze Newcomb specifically, I have to point that out. Yes, I scumread all of you based on that. But if everybody is doing that, I don't think fluff posting is going to outweigh town tells, which you and Nacho both exhibit.
I am planning to examine pozzai and reg because pozzai is seen as scum by multiple people and is rather easy to read, while I did not really have a feel about reg's alignment, so I have to read again and get a feel of it.
I see all fluff posting as a weak scum read, but since I am asked to analyze Newcomb specifically, I have to point that out. Yes, I scumread all of you based on that. But if everybody is doing that, I don't think fluff posting is going to outweigh town tells, which you and Nacho both exhibit.
I am planning to examine pozzai and reg because pozzai is seen as scum by multiple people and is rather easy to read, while I did not really have a feel about reg's alignment, so I have to read again and get a feel of it.
I see all fluff posting as a weak scum read, but since I am asked to analyze Newcomb specifically, I have to point that out. Yes, I scumread all of you based on that. But if everybody is doing that, I don't think fluff posting is going to outweigh town tells, which you and Nacho both exhibit.
I am planning to examine pozzai and reg because pozzai is seen as scum by multiple people and is rather easy to read, while I did not really have a feel about reg's alignment, so I have to read again and get a feel of it.
What were the town tells that Nacho exhibited?
He seems just too relaxed and set back to be maf. I can be wong tho.
Is that a yes?
It feels like a yes.
You came in with a flurry and didn't mention the top wagon/most talked about player.
Yeah, no, that's not how I play I give about 0 ****s about early wagons till more information is gained, and Regfan is not really the archetype of person I'm focusing on early day1, sorry not sorry.
Really none of his catch up flurry of posts look like him genuinely attempting to sort peoples alignments other than maaybe his question to Delphine in #125 and I'm not a huge fan of that either.
I don't for a second believe you think that this specific point has any indication of my alignment as you know I tend to keep my cards close to my chest especially early on. In particular because you used this as part of your accusation against me when we played videomafia and you were scum. If I remember correctly, you tend to be more curious and ask me for stances than speaking 'around me' to determine my alignment, instead of just make a blanket statement about what you think 'I' did or did not get from the questions asked.
Still dislike Pozzais stream of catching up posts; none of them really have any reads or stances in them and the questions all feel very throwaway. I really think his stance on Tom inside Post #126 and Post #129 makes very little sense, it a) Ignores that others have mentioned that Tom taking this playstyle change was planned pre-game and a null tell and b) The suggestion that the change is a purposeful one to have more town reads stated is something that doesn't add up and think there's a decent chance he's scum here.
Again, how the hell is this different from anything you have ever experienced from me, why is something that you ought to consider NAI, a thing you try to push again and again on the thread? I do not give reads on my own accord early, you know this, because you have never experienced anything else, so why oh why would you expect me to be a completely different player just because of a change of media!?
How was Newcomb's lack of content different from anyone else who fluff posted in RVS - I assume you didn't scumread everyone from that section?
Newcomb's lack of content extended to page 2, while others stopped early.
Is page 2 a late point of fluffing from your experience? Why do you consider the duration of fluffing to be alignment indicative ?
Yes, because I don't really see fluffing all that commonly, and in all of my previous games players don't fluff half as much as this game. Fluffing is bad because you are avoiding posting content and distracting the town. Nacho said this earlier and I am supportive of him.
How was Newcomb's lack of content different from anyone else who fluff posted in RVS - I assume you didn't scumread everyone from that section?
Newcomb's lack of content extended to page 2, while others stopped early.
Is page 2 a late point of fluffing from your experience? Why do you consider the duration of fluffing to be alignment indicative ?
Yes, because I don't really see fluffing all that commonly, and in all of my previous games players don't fluff half as much as this game. Fluffing is bad because you are avoiding posting content and distracting the town. Nacho said this earlier and I am supportive of him.
Hmm, okay. So if I told you that Newcomb plays elsewhere where fluff day1 is more accepted for a longer period of time, and as a result of this that particular point of yours is invalid, does that make him a firm/strong town for you, or is he still a lean? (assuming you accept my premise in regards to fluff on other sites)
Is that a yes?
It feels like a yes.
You came in with a flurry and didn't mention the top wagon/most talked about player.
Yeah, no, that's not how I play I give about 0 ****s about early wagons till more information is gained, and Regfan is not really the archetype of person I'm focusing on early day1, sorry not sorry.
Really none of his catch up flurry of posts look like him genuinely attempting to sort peoples alignments other than maaybe his question to Delphine in #125 and I'm not a huge fan of that either.
I don't for a second believe you think that this specific point has any indication of my alignment as you know I tend to keep my cards close to my chest especially early on. In particular because you used this as part of your accusation against me when we played videomafia and you were scum. If I remember correctly, you tend to be more curious and ask me for stances than speaking 'around me' to determine my alignment, instead of just make a blanket statement about what you think 'I' did or did not get from the questions asked.
Vote:Regfan
Unvote, vote Pozzai
I have no read on Newcomb. He's right that I'm town, but I stopped townreading people for that a while ago.
Him being mildly worried about failing to change his meta is kinda +town, but I did the same thing last game and he could be faking it. We'll see.
I have no read on Newcomb. He's right that I'm town, but I stopped townreading people for that a while ago.
My issue is he goes about you exactly as I feel a town should not go about unknown!Vaimes. Basically trying to get people to pay less attention to you, removing pressure from you by going "ah it doesn't matter now, he can be town till I see something else" by throwing in a townread on you for being top poster after a mainly fluffphase.
Has Newcomb come around to having a strong non-interactive read on you since last we played WH on fantasystrike?
I have no read on Newcomb. He's right that I'm town, but I stopped townreading people for that a while ago.
My issue is he goes about you exactly as I feel a town should not go about unknown!Vaimes. Basically trying to get people to pay less attention to you, removing pressure from you by going "ah it doesn't matter now, he can be town till I see something else" by throwing in a townread on you for being top poster after a mainly fluffphase.
Has Newcomb come around to having a strong non-interactive read on you since last we played WH on fantasystrike?
lol
Yes, he definitely has. Nearly every game, regardless of alignment.
I have no read on Newcomb. He's right that I'm town, but I stopped townreading people for that a while ago.
My issue is he goes about you exactly as I feel a town should not go about unknown!Vaimes. Basically trying to get people to pay less attention to you, removing pressure from you by going "ah it doesn't matter now, he can be town till I see something else" by throwing in a townread on you for being top poster after a mainly fluffphase.
Has Newcomb come around to having a strong non-interactive read on you since last we played WH on fantasystrike?
lol
Yes, he definitely has. Nearly every game, regardless of alignment.
Why the lol? Do you disagree that if one doubt your alignment, it wouldn't give results adding pressure on you, rather than step back and "see what happens"?
@Vaimes; You've now called me entertaining, handsome and think I may have 'pretty posts', if you wanted to bone you could have just asked. All this foreplay seems excessive.
@Delph; Actually like the reasoning behind your Newcomb town read in #220 a lot and agree with the part about his interaction with Vaimes coming across as town. Know I'm being greedy but moar plz, would specifically like your thoughts on Pozzai given you probably know him better than most. Feel for you having read your first game, I did that a while back and it was a painful experience, I replaced in D1 and had very accurate reads, my one misread was the vig who shot me N1 and then proceeded to ***** talk my reads the rest of the game, was a very frustrating experience all around.
@X=Y; Pozzai missing that Toms playstyle change is one that was preplanned is a fairly big thing to miss, this was a topic that was discussed earlier in this game with Von and several of us have pointed out that he mentioned doing this in the dead QT of the last game. Him not noticing this points more towards him skimming the thread then actually reading through with an attempt to discern alignment. Similarly his accusation that the playstyle change is 'to call more people town as scum' is a very weird thought process and one that I can't follow coming from town.
@Pozzai; I don't think playstyle from Video Mafia & Forum Mafia have any relevance, I think players handle both mediums very differently. My issue here isn't that your posts lack reads but moreso that I don't think the angles you're prodding and questions you're asking are leading towards you getting reads, they seem very throwaway for the most part; admittedly I do like your #241 and #242 though. Run me through your read on Tom and how you missed it being preplanned when reading the thread please.
I like most of Typhons reasoning behind his Xequals vote in #209 and his reasoning behind scum reading Ophidia in #211, think the point about the over-mention of being new is a solid one. Also like the follow up questioning directed to Ophidia.
Dislike X=Y's vote on Iso in #226, it comes across as a very lazy and easy vote for scum to place
Still dislike Pozzais stream of catching up posts; none of them really have any reads or stances in them and the questions all feel very throwaway. I really think his stance on Tom inside Post #126 and Post #129 makes very little sense, it a) Ignores that others have mentioned that Tom taking this playstyle change was planned pre-game and a null tell and b) The suggestion that the change is a purposeful one to have more town reads stated is something that doesn't add up and think there's a decent chance he's scum here.
@Pozzai; I don't think playstyle from Video Mafia & Forum Mafia have any relevance, I think players handle both mediums very differently. My issue here isn't that your posts lack reads but moreso that I don't think the angles you're prodding and questions you're asking are leading towards you getting reads, they seem very throwaway for the most part; admittedly I do like your #241 and #242 though. Run me through your read on Tom and how you missed it being preplanned when reading the thread please.
Okay?
Mainly just skimmed through the fluff, didn't pay particular case to it being preplanned, but even if preplanned, there's still a reason it's that particular person whoever it is he's imitating.
Hiding behind "I'm playing as someone else" only helps to obfuscate the game, making it harder to solve because you have a harder time sieving through what comes off as fake due to roleplaying and what comes off as fake if scum.
Still think Nachos early push on me in Post #8 and attempts to get people to join him in, Post #10, Post #11 are a weak town tell and still think the brazen discussion re; pocketing in Post #18 is less likely to come from scum. I also like his assessment of the Tom change in playstyle in Post #52. Nachos cheer leading of the "Too strong a read early game" reasoning in Post #111 is a real problem given he knows that I state my reads in the early game and they often change; he's seen me be attacked for "too strong" as town before re; Forest Fire. Town read on him as weakened rather significantly, really want to hear some reads and thoughts from him as well as an explanation re; his #111.
Typhons reaction towards Nacho inside Post #20 to comes across as him being very relaxed which I'd doubt he was as scum early on in this playerlist but the complete lack of content or activity after that is a concern given his normal activity levels as well as something he PM'ed me about pregame. Fairly null on him overall.
Ophidias empty RVS vote while ignoring everything else in Post #37 is something I still think is more likely to come from scum. I liked Ophidias Post #154 particularly his answer about Grape, I like his question Newcomb as to why those posts were picked and think the town read -> scum read change on Grapes inside the post is one that scums unlikely to make given the threads consensus on Grapes. Got a weak town read on him overall.
I do also like Toms read of Typhon in Post #56, his point about the lack of analysis from Typhon at the time is a reasonable one and like him acknowledging that it is still early on there too. I think Tom questioning me about how Nachos approached me as scum in Post #74 has plenty of town motivation behind it as does him hunting down some of my meta to show Vaimes inside Post #105. Actually feel pretty good that he's town here.
Went into this earlier but I liked both Post #59 and Post #60 from Grapes, the paranoia of Tom in them feels very genuine. I think his reaction towards being town read in Post #82 is a very strong town tell, don't imagine scum raise their suspicions of being town read in the thread. I also liked his recent interaction with me, I'm pretty confident he's town here.
Liked most of Newcombs analysis of Vaimes inside Post #70 and most of it mirrors how I expect him to attempt to read Vaimes. I agree with most of the W/W teams that Newcomb is crossing out in Post #150 and can follow his logic behind them and like the questioning put forward to Orphidia. Didn't like his brief comment about the Pozzai read inside #190 and Post #191 but hoping his answer tomorrow about this will help settle it. Got a weak town read on him at the moment but really want to hear his Pozzai read.
Vaimes's stance on the game inside Post #71 comes across as genuine; understand most of his stances there other than him considering me an entertaining poster. I think Vaimes's whole "Tried putting myself in Regfans shoes" section of Post #94 comes across as very town; can understand where he's coming from and typically find most players that take issue with my play in that regard to be town. Going over his interactions and reads throughout the game I'm fairly sure he's town here.
Don't like Xequalsys Post #89 comes across as a very forced way to interject himself into the game and conversation and looks like attempting to take a mediator role rather than solving alignments. Got a weak scum read on him overall.
Still dislike Pozzais stream of catching up posts; none of them really have any reads or stances in them and the questions all feel very throwaway. I really think his stance on Tom inside Post #126 and Post #129 makes very little sense, it a) Ignores that others have mentioned that Tom taking this playstyle change was planned pre-game and a null tell and b) The suggestion that the change is a purposeful one to have more town reads stated is something that doesn't add up and think there's a decent chance he's scum here.
Conflicted about what to make of Isos catch up reads inside Post #171 and Post #172, the reads themselves are something I very much disagree with and can't see particularly the Grapes/Vaimes/Pozzai ones but not sure if I see scum faking the "Oh it's a basic 3 scum not 4" type post.
Also not sure where to place Delphi at the moment, badly need more stances from her.
Currently at;
Town (S->W): Grapes, Vaimes, Tom [Huge Gap], Newcomb, Ophidia, Nacho
Null: Typhon, Iso, Delphi
Scum (S->W):Pozzai, Xequals
And with that I'm heading to bed, see you all in ~24 hours, probably won't phone post much at work tomorrow, my boss will be in the office then and unlike Tammy I can't just sleep with them and get away with anything.
Goodnight.
I'm getting close to conceding that maybe I'm wrong on Regfan, but I need to make sure it's not just because he's posting a lot of pretty words.
Vote: xequalsy
It's a bit of an activity tell in that I think scum are more likely than town to lurk in this playerlist (yes, I know I was away for a day, do as I say not as I do, etc.), but.
It's not just an activity tell.
Lets talk about 9. So you came into the game, didn't vote with your first post, and then blank voted me with your second post. What's the thought process there? Specifically, why vote there if you didn't with your first vote, and why me of your 12 options? What were you looking for with your questions to Grapefruit? Can you run me through the mindset in which you made 89?
Towny Posts
#70 provides orginal opinion on Vaimes. A weak town post. But Newcomb, why did you say this:
"Vaimes is the one player in this game who I'm fully confident I'll have a strong read on by the end of the Day"?
Post #150 finally gives content, and pretty good ones at that. He is not townclearing Nacho like the rest of us were doing, and his point on Regfan is solid. He also made a good comment about universal townreads. He is also the first to ask me questions, so that's nice. But why specifically Grapefruit?
Scummy Posts
Many of his posts in pages 1 and 2 were mostly gifs and fluffy posts, which contribute nothing to town. I don't like it.
I like how tom called him out for making a votecount post on page 2. Sounds wierd to me as well.'
Hope this works.
It's not impossible that I'm being unfair here on the first bit, so I'm accepting hip checks from people (well, some of you), but Ophidia has 16 posts. Would anyone like to guess how many times s/he mentions or implies their newness and/or inexperience?
Conservatively 7. A majority of those are direct statements rather than implications.
That unsettles me a bit, as it's a thing that makes more sense coming from scum than town in a vacuum (in a vacuum meaning not under pressure).
To elaborate, I might expect to see it from town under pressure and maybe once or twice at the beginning of the game, because that makes sense. You screwed up because you didn't understand something properly? Of course you'd explain. You just want to mention it to everyone at the beginning? Yeah, sure, that's fair.
But new scum have more important reasons to make sure that /everybody/ knows that they should be considered a breed apart, namely to sort of deflect them from having to match the level of play or scrutiny of most players (an example being how his fluffiness used his meta like a spear and skewered town on it in SVM because none of us were holding him to the level of play that we were holding the rest of the game). This is especially a concern with scum having daychat for a limited time at the beginning of the game - that well of resources is getting cut off soon, and Ophidia will have to stand on his/her own (with a mentor, but even so). Establishing "I'm super new and don't know things" right at the start has potential to allow them to float along with minimal direct coaching even if there were some miscues.
So yeah, I haven't cared for that. I also agree that the entrance was awkward, although at the time I felt it was more null than anything and I'm a bit wary of letting any potential conf bias into my game here after SVM.
Hrmm. The newbie mindset does appear to be there but I'm having a hard time deciding if that changes my points.
I'm currently townreading Grapefruit, Vaimes, lightly Newcomb, and even more lightly Reg. I know Grapefruit has claimed a weird scum soulread, Vaimes has expressed some suspicion, and Newcomb and Reg have light townread them in a non-committal sort of way, but any hard opinions here? Am I seeing things in something that's kinda shrug territory that's not actually there?
Actually, Ophidia, let's talk about this.
I won't garcia your questions to Newcomb (that's when you answer a question asked to someone else, ftr), but let's just look at your conclusions. You have 3 points there - two are things you townread and asked questions about which appear to be aimed at clarifying rather than disagreeing with his points (correct me if I'm wrong), and one is a thing you scumread (fluff posts in RVS).
So what's the final conclusion? What did you learn from your analysis of Newcomb? Did it help you understand him or the gamestate any better? Where do you plan to look next?
I have a lean town read on Newcomb, as he eventually stops his fluff posts and starts to provide content. It does give me a clearer picture on him, as I am too lazy to read in depth without people telling me to. I plan to read more on Regfan and Pozzai next.
@Nacho A lot has been made of Reg's opening where he threw down a town read on you. He's appealed to meta a bit there wrt to you - does that track from your perspective? You talked about it at one point, but it wasn't apparent if you we saying what you understood tom to be saying to Vaimes, or if your actual opinion is that town!Reg would have been more cautious. How are you reading Reg currently?
Since I've made another double post though, might as well make it count.
@Delphine Mind telling me the three most interesting things that have happened in the thread so far (would prefer a brief why with each).
I talked about Ophidia pinging me a bit too, and Newcomb was like "shh Vaimes only dreams now."
@xequalsy Sorry about your day, man. I'd like to direct you to 209 when you get a chance to look and respond.
Newcomb's lack of content extended to page 2, while others stopped early.
I disagree - I just spectated a game where tom got mislynched for giving out fake reads. He seems to be playing differently here, but the point was that I don't see giving out town reads as necessarily buddying you. It creates discussion for one - people will definitely jump on or discuss town reads that seem weak or not well reasoned. The question was because people don't always state the strength of their reads (and represent them as stronger than they actually are), and I doubt a read he gave on #81 (not too long after RVS) was likely to mean all that much.
Hi. Any thoughts so far?
Regarding the wordiness/confidence of Regfan's read (@Vaimes #94) - I can't speak to the accuracy of the meta part of it, but I did get the vibe from Nacho that they were having fun and was super relaxed and came away from it with a town lean. I get tom's point about it though that he seems to be overselling a little the strength of the meta read based on the actual experience he has playing with Nacho.
(Fake Edit: Going back to this, I'm not sure I like his response #143 - agree with Vaimes's point there. He kinda doubled down on it being a relatively strong read that I don't really see as earned)
I don't think we did? Did you play American Gods Mafia?
Pozzai seems cool so far. Like the mindset of their posts and prodding.
Sure, but my display name is literally X=Y if that's easier.
Newcomb's post is hitting all the right notes - I was definitely nodding along to most of it, but there is this focus on pointing out what probably isn't w/w that bothers me a little, not too sure how relevant that is this early in D1. Not sure I'm explaining myself correctly, but like I'm not really sure how useful that is, creating these little links/non-links on not a lot.
Ehh. Nacho and I were both still meme'ing/fluffing on page two. Was it especially scummy for Newcomb for some reason, or are/were you scumreading me/Nacho as well? If you find that behavior to be scummy, why not pressure me or Nacho next?
Equally, why are you planning to examine Pozzai and Reg next? Names out of a hat, or are there specific reasons? I know that those are a lot of questions, but I'm trying to see in your head a bit and I'm having a hard time with it.
There's hasn't been that many posts...
Any elaboration on this (specifically why vaimes+regfan)?
Regarding Ophidia, I like that their style so far seems to be to type out their entire thought process on things. There is a lot of self awareness, but I dunno, I kinda see that as a positive? Like answering what seems to be every question directed at them earnestly.
@Regfan (#185):
Regarding your Pozzai read, I don't really follow why not realising tom was apeing someone else's playstyle is necessarily that big a thing to miss? I definitely got the impression he was basically reacting post by post and to people replying to him in real time. I kinda feel tom's point that Pozzai basically just prodded people and didn't really comment on you specially as a much more interesting point.
I was planning to naked vote the next person who voted. Not sure I got a lot out of it since you (and everyone else) basically ignored it and disappeared, but it's definitely interesting you're the one who decided to pick it up again.
Not sure if my last post answers fully your question, but the idea was to understand if Grapefruit saw the townreads on him as being particularly strong. It kinda felt like an overreaction to me that he was scum-reading tom (the one who he already acknowledged to be "gimmicky") based on throwing out an early town read. (regarding my question about Vaimes, that was from misreading that he liked Vaimes whilst skimming instead of him being also apprehensive about Vaimes and confused at the contradiction)
Also
Vote: Iso
Come explain your reads please.
I see all fluff posting as a weak scum read, but since I am asked to analyze Newcomb specifically, I have to point that out. Yes, I scumread all of you based on that. But if everybody is doing that, I don't think fluff posting is going to outweigh town tells, which you and Nacho both exhibit.
I am planning to examine pozzai and reg because pozzai is seen as scum by multiple people and is rather easy to read, while I did not really have a feel about reg's alignment, so I have to read again and get a feel of it.
Unvote, vote Ophidia
By that, I mean that he did not write too many sentences for me to read.
What were the town tells that Nacho exhibited?
He seems just too relaxed and set back to be maf. I can be wong tho.
Yeah, no, that's not how I play I give about 0 ****s about early wagons till more information is gained, and Regfan is not really the archetype of person I'm focusing on early day1, sorry not sorry.
I don't for a second believe you think that this specific point has any indication of my alignment as you know I tend to keep my cards close to my chest especially early on. In particular because you used this as part of your accusation against me when we played videomafia and you were scum. If I remember correctly, you tend to be more curious and ask me for stances than speaking 'around me' to determine my alignment, instead of just make a blanket statement about what you think 'I' did or did not get from the questions asked.
Vote:Regfan
He is very well aware of this.
Again, how the hell is this different from anything you have ever experienced from me, why is something that you ought to consider NAI, a thing you try to push again and again on the thread? I do not give reads on my own accord early, you know this, because you have never experienced anything else, so why oh why would you expect me to be a completely different player just because of a change of media!?
I did not. I kind of loosely watched it so might've been from there.
Is page 2 a late point of fluffing from your experience? Why do you consider the duration of fluffing to be alignment indicative ?
Yes, because I don't really see fluffing all that commonly, and in all of my previous games players don't fluff half as much as this game. Fluffing is bad because you are avoiding posting content and distracting the town. Nacho said this earlier and I am supportive of him.
Hmm, okay. So if I told you that Newcomb plays elsewhere where fluff day1 is more accepted for a longer period of time, and as a result of this that particular point of yours is invalid, does that make him a firm/strong town for you, or is he still a lean? (assuming you accept my premise in regards to fluff on other sites)
I have no read on Newcomb. He's right that I'm town, but I stopped townreading people for that a while ago.
Him being mildly worried about failing to change his meta is kinda +town, but I did the same thing last game and he could be faking it. We'll see.
My issue is he goes about you exactly as I feel a town should not go about unknown!Vaimes. Basically trying to get people to pay less attention to you, removing pressure from you by going "ah it doesn't matter now, he can be town till I see something else" by throwing in a townread on you for being top poster after a mainly fluffphase.
Has Newcomb come around to having a strong non-interactive read on you since last we played WH on fantasystrike?
Yes, he definitely has. Nearly every game, regardless of alignment.
Why the lol? Do you disagree that if one doubt your alignment, it wouldn't give results adding pressure on you, rather than step back and "see what happens"?
Think someone mentioned in signups that you need to go "unvote" and "vote" on seperate lines, or it wont register.
My votes have clearly counted, so.
@Delph; Actually like the reasoning behind your Newcomb town read in #220 a lot and agree with the part about his interaction with Vaimes coming across as town. Know I'm being greedy but moar plz, would specifically like your thoughts on Pozzai given you probably know him better than most. Feel for you having read your first game, I did that a while back and it was a painful experience, I replaced in D1 and had very accurate reads, my one misread was the vig who shot me N1 and then proceeded to ***** talk my reads the rest of the game, was a very frustrating experience all around.
@X=Y; Pozzai missing that Toms playstyle change is one that was preplanned is a fairly big thing to miss, this was a topic that was discussed earlier in this game with Von and several of us have pointed out that he mentioned doing this in the dead QT of the last game. Him not noticing this points more towards him skimming the thread then actually reading through with an attempt to discern alignment. Similarly his accusation that the playstyle change is 'to call more people town as scum' is a very weird thought process and one that I can't follow coming from town.
@Pozzai; I don't think playstyle from Video Mafia & Forum Mafia have any relevance, I think players handle both mediums very differently. My issue here isn't that your posts lack reads but moreso that I don't think the angles you're prodding and questions you're asking are leading towards you getting reads, they seem very throwaway for the most part; admittedly I do like your #241 and #242 though. Run me through your read on Tom and how you missed it being preplanned when reading the thread please.
I like most of Typhons reasoning behind his Xequals vote in #209 and his reasoning behind scum reading Ophidia in #211, think the point about the over-mention of being new is a solid one. Also like the follow up questioning directed to Ophidia.
Dislike X=Y's vote on Iso in #226, it comes across as a very lazy and easy vote for scum to place
Okay?
Mainly just skimmed through the fluff, didn't pay particular case to it being preplanned, but even if preplanned, there's still a reason it's that particular person whoever it is he's imitating.
Hiding behind "I'm playing as someone else" only helps to obfuscate the game, making it harder to solve because you have a harder time sieving through what comes off as fake due to roleplaying and what comes off as fake if scum.