Coming on the heels of a Percival claim, why would you fish for other Percivals?
I suppose I can see that. I didn't quite notice the percival claim (A bit of a mafia newb). But I'd say it's not particularly forced to scumread D_V and maybe Rhand.
I have a proposal. It's not fully hashed out, but what if we intentional fail the first vote. It will pass to DK, who has been lurking and not someone I trust on a quest. That way we can put Mindreaver, who I have a town read, on on the quest.
I don't like DV.
Right now I would get behind Mindreaver, Silver and Shadow/vaime
I'd guess that at least one of Silver and Cantrip is scum, based on Rhand's post, and at the moment I'd lean Silver. Also, this is an iso game, hence why I'm not more certain on Mindreaver.
@Modso:
Once someone has voted Yes or No for a party, are they allowed to change their vote or is it locked in?
(I'm assuming we can change, but. better safe than sorry.)
Votes will be accepted for the 72-hour period that the voting phase is open after each party selection.
Right, but once I've voted can I change my mind during the 72 hour period?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So far I like Vaimes. For his D_V questions (particularly the why not-merlin) and his comment to shadow "you aren't town enough yet". Love it.
Cantrip, seems overeager. Not sold man.
Shadow, see Cantrip
Rhand and Silver, no opinion yet. But no bad vibes either.
This seems like an odd reason to express suspicion. I would think that everyone would be eager to go on the quest; it's sorta an integral part of everyone's wincon, no?
I specifically mean the way you're buddying up to Rhand. That interaction just seems... I don't know. Do you love me? I can read you the best. Unladen swallow.... all of that.
Maybe that is all just friendly RVS-style banter, but right this second, it's most of your posts in the game. It's page 2 though, so I wouldn't take it too hard.
Ah, I see what you mean. That's not what you said, though. Regardless, I sorta had it in my head that "going on a quest" meant more than it really does. There won't be any additional interaction between just the quest members, so being able to read Rhand doesn't factor into whether we quest together.
Quote from Mindreaver »
As far as the D_V claim, just one question for you: How would a scum D_V be outed? Or for that matter, how would any claim be outed? We aren't going to see any flips. Take a look at the 4 or 5 Merlin claims, OR you could look at the 7-9 Knight claims we'll eventually have. Conflicts won't hurt, if we can't prove who is lying and who is telling the truth.
Oy, the lack of flips is going to throw me all game. Ok, so really the only downside for scum claiming Percival is that the real Percival knows they're scum and will discourage them going on a quest. So if DV is scum, he's not Morgana, as the real Percival would see one of his two "Merlin" possibilities and know which one could be trusted. But he would still know that DV is lying, and would discourage quests that included DV. Which is why town would be highly unlikely to false claim Percival, right? So it still feels likely that DV really is Percival. I'm going to have to ponder the reasons that the real Percival would claim.
(Ok, maybe it's not strictly -EV. But we should probably drop it. I was trying to hint at that with my post right after D_V's claim and my post after you asked what I thought of D_V, but. For now just assume he's town unless he gets counterclaimed or we know he's throwing fails - if he's counterclaimed, we can just not put either of them on a quest team.)
Ok, I know I'm going against your recommendation with my response to Mindreaver, but I'm a little blown away by a Percival claim. What's "-EV"? And I don't like that last line; it feels almost like coaching as a way to take DV out of the equation.
I have a proposal. It's not fully hashed out, but what if we intentional fail the first vote. It will pass to DK, who has been lurking and not someone I trust on a quest. That way we can put Mindreaver, who I have a town read, on on the quest.
I don't like DV.
Right now I would get behind Mindreaver, Silver and Shadow/vaime
We just discussed why intentional passing is bad. I will not support such a plan.
Lets see what my group is (probably sometime saturday/sunday, to give DK a fair shot at participating) before we start pushing a better team.
I'd guess that at least one of Silver and Cantrip is scum, based on Rhand's post, and at the moment I'd lean Silver. Also, this is an iso game, hence why I'm not more certain on Mindreaver.
Interesting. I'm always paranoid of silver, because I've never seen his scum game, and I suspect he'd be hard to figure out. I'll have to go take another look, because I have his as practically towncleared for <reasons I'll reveal in due time>.
Can you elborate on what this being an Iso game has to do with my alignment? Just curious. I know Iso is famously difficult to break via massclaims, role names, role PMs, etc. I just don't know how it applies here.
I have a proposal. It's not fully hashed out, but what if we intentional fail the first vote. It will pass to DK, who has been lurking and not someone I trust on a quest. That way we can put Mindreaver, who I have a town read, on on the quest.
I don't like DV.
Right now I would get behind Mindreaver, Silver and Shadow/vaime
We just discussed why intentional passing is bad. I will not support such a plan.
Lets see what my group is (probably sometime saturday/sunday, to give DK a fair shot at participating) before we start pushing a better team.
I understand why it would be bad to overuse, but in this case the precise reason you've discussed that it was good to put yourself on the quest in the first place and that it's bad to swap groups, gives me solid town read on you, so I would love to have someone I have a solid town read on a quest. How is that bad?
Seeing as I have two really solid townreads, including myself, I agree I'm a great candidate, BUT... your suggestion is premature. Bur or AG could ocme in here, dazzling us with their townness. I think by the time DK has time this weekend, we'll be able to put a reasonable group together, and if not, I'll be more receptive to passing. But I don't want to do that, and not get the tells from it, if there is a viable option.
Can you elborate on what this being an Iso game has to do with my alignment? Just curious. I know Iso is famously difficult to break via massclaims, role names, role PMs, etc. I just don't know how it applies here.
Just that I would not rely on iso putting a town member as the first chooser. Though I'd have to look more into strategies and math to figure out exactly what's the best plan on that. I'll see if I can do that before the weekend, or on my train this weekend.
I do not like DV. Regardless of his alignment, I am leaning towards vetoing any quest that he picks or has him on it because of his claim.
Claiming Merlin is fine, but any and all claims after the fact only help the scumteam. Real claims means they will have an easier time hunting for Merlin, and fake claims could cause the real power roles to unintentionally slip up.
In fact, this game it isn't at all awful for the scumteam to "out" themselves, or be openly scummy. As long as some of them can get information via fakeclaims and rolefishing, they can still win with the Assassinatino even if we pass three quests. Scum have less of an incentive to stay hidden here.
---
People who trust DV: first of all, stop. Second of all: why?
Also, I like Rhand's choices. I'd probably say Vaimes instead of Cantrip but I'm having a hard time reading Cantrip.
Plus tonereading Vaimes is a poor plan but I'm doing it anyway since he has all of one post worth of content.
Do you have an opinion on D_V? I originally hated the not-Merlin thing, and the "because I'm Percival" is too cute.
Same question to you Rhand, since he's in your grouping.
Sigh.
So close, yet so far.
The mission leader not being able to nominate themselves is awful.
I have a proposal. It's not fully hashed out, but what if we intentional fail the first vote. It will pass to DK, who has been lurking and not someone I trust on a quest. That way we can put Mindreaver, who I have a town read, on on the quest.
I don't like DV.
Right now I would get behind Mindreaver, Silver and Shadow/vaime
Town? That, or scummates with shadow, probably.
I assume you mean veto a quest, rather than fail it.
---
osie, what specifically makes you think Silver could be scum?
Can you elborate on what this being an Iso game has to do with my alignment? Just curious. I know Iso is famously difficult to break via massclaims, role names, role PMs, etc. I just don't know how it applies here.
Just that I would not rely on iso putting a town member as the first chooser. Though I'd have to look more into strategies and math to figure out exactly what's the best plan on that. I'll see if I can do that before the weekend, or on my train this weekend.
I wasn't the first chooser though Although Shockwave/Vaimes doesn't seem scummy either.
osie, what specifically makes you think Silver could be scum?
"Nullifies the tells" - This phrase could be innocent, but… Also, trying to obfuscate for town is a decent strat of scum for this game. It's a mixed bag, since they also want to find Merlin, but it's not too extreme. Anyways, these were the points that led to that:
I don't think passing Q1 is super-duper important, actually. Q2 is, though, because if we pass Q1 we can be in a strong position after passing Q2 and if we fail Q1 we're screwed if we fail Q2. Basically, failing Q1 is like mislynching on D1 except we actually get more info - we know there's at least one scum in those three names. So it's not really the end of the world *if* we can figure out which of the three failed the quest.
Also, there are ways of maximizing our data for Q1 before choosing. But talking about them sort of nullifies the tells, which is why I'm not saying anything. Ask me about that in post game, too, if you want.
Also, I like Rhand's choices. I'd probably say Vaimes instead of Cantrip but I'm having a hard time reading Cantrip.
Plus tonereading Vaimes is a poor plan but I'm doing it anyway since he has all of one post worth of content.
I do not like DV. Regardless of his alignment, I am leaning towards vetoing any quest that he picks or has him on it because of his claim.
Claiming Merlin is fine, but any and all claims after the fact only help the scumteam. Real claims means they will have an easier time hunting for Merlin, and fake claims could cause the real power roles to unintentionally slip up.
This is 100% opportunistic.
Vaimes is scum.
Vaimes had already commented multiple times yesterday when I made the claims that I did.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.
Also on the Merlin claim thing it doesn't do anything and Vaimes saying or indicating that the Merlin claim is "Pro town" is ridiculous it doesn't mean anything its just a I am Spartacus play.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.
Basically I get to pick three people, and then everyone else votes yes or no. If there are 6 yes, those three go on a quest (pm Iso pass/fail) and if there are 6 no, the next person on the list (DK in this case) gets to propose a 3 person team. etc.
Right now, I haven't proposed a team. Probably the biggest development has been that I can't choose myself. Which was definitely going to be my first choice.
I have a proposal. It's not fully hashed out, but what if we intentional fail the first vote. It will pass to DK, who has been lurking and not someone I trust on a quest. That way we can put Mindreaver, who I have a town read, on on the quest.
I don't like DV.
Right now I would get behind Mindreaver, Silver and Shadow/vaime
Town? That, or scummates with shadow, probably.
I assume you mean veto a quest, rather than fail it.
Yes, I meant veto the vote for the first quest proposed by Mindreaver so we could nominate him because he is my most solid town read. I didn't quite follow your first comment. I put Shadow in my town reads because if I remember correctly he was the first one to claim Merlin, which is a town move, whether he's Merlin or not.
I do not like DV. Regardless of his alignment, I am leaning towards vetoing any quest that he picks or has him on it because of his claim.
Claiming Merlin is fine, but any and all claims after the fact only help the scumteam. Real claims means they will have an easier time hunting for Merlin, and fake claims could cause the real power roles to unintentionally slip up.
This is 100% opportunistic.
Vaimes is scum.
Vaimes had already commented multiple times yesterday when I made the claims that I did.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.
Are you joking DV? You're being super scummy, that does not make the second, third or fourth person saying you're scummy opportunistic. Just straight up, a not-Merlin claim is anti-town, even if you are Percy. Wagoning on any vote is scummy. Use your friggin brain, don't sheep, sheep are scum. Oh hey, here's a good way to tell a scum member out of the first mission... IT FAILS. WTF, seriously!? This is not a regular game of Mafia, it's three strikes and you're out or Merlin gets hit in the head by a pitch and dies and we lose. Both scenarios you are actively contributing to. Not reading the rules? Scummy.
I have read the rules. I've never actually played Avalon, but I have played a lot of resistance. Basically its a vote for a team see what happens go for there kind of game. Sure there are some tells you might pick up befor the first group but overall not really.
Vaimes had already commented multiple times yesterday when I made the claims that I did.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.[/quote]False. I made exactly one post after your claim. It was a quick phone post clarifying what I believed to be a contradiction in the rules (Silver mentioning that townies could fail quests when that is illegal in Avalon; if a town player fails a quest, the game needs to be rerolled). I just missed your post.
I caught up, saw that you had claimed Percival, went back to check, and decided that it made you very likely to be scum. Unless you want to refute my points that scum can openly rolefish and still win, despite town passing three quests?
Agreeing with a read != sheeping. Nice try though.
I have read the rules. I've never actually played Avalon, but I have played a lot of resistance. Basically its a vote for a team see what happens go for there kind of game. Sure there are some tells you might pick up befor the first group but overall not really.
Also Vaimes sheeped you guys soooo.
yeah.
Ok, I'll retract the part about you not reading the rules, I got excited in finding scum.
Vaimes had already commented multiple times yesterday when I made the claims that I did.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.
False. I made exactly one post after your claim. It was a quick phone post clarifying what I believed to be a contradiction in the rules (Silver mentioning that townies could fail quests when that is illegal in Avalon; if a town player fails a quest, the game needs to be rerolled). I just missed your post.
I caught up, saw that you had claimed Percival, went back to check, and decided that it made you very likely to be scum. Unless you want to refute my points that scum can openly rolefish and still win, despite town passing three quests?
Agreeing with a read != sheeping. Nice try though.
(Ok, maybe it's not strictly -EV. But we should probably drop it. I was trying to hint at that with my post right after D_V's claim and my post after you asked what I thought of D_V, but. For now just assume he's town unless he gets counterclaimed or we know he's throwing fails - if he's counterclaimed, we can just not put either of them on a quest team.)
Ok, I know I'm going against your recommendation with my response to Mindreaver, but I'm a little blown away by a Percival claim. What's "-EV"? And I don't like that last line; it feels almost like coaching as a way to take DV out of the equation.
It is coaching. I'm trying to keep us from losing without passing too much information to the scum team. I've typed up the exact logic like, five times then not posted it because I don't want scum to see it if they can't figure it out themselves. I want D_V out of the equation because of the logic I'm sitting on that I can't explain. Trust me or don't, but for the love of Arthur leave this alone. I'll explain in post-game if someone else doesn't let it out during the game.
EV is Expected Value. -EV is bad for town, +EV is good for town. Well, in this instance anyway because I'm talking about town.
People who trust DV: first of all, stop. Second of all: why?
See above. And like my last four posts. Absent a counterclaim, I trust him. And I'm Merlin so he's either town or Mordred. Also, why are we rolefishing D_V if we know it's good for scum? Take his claim at face value - or don't - but either way it's just helping scum if we keep talking about it.
"Nullifies the tells" - This phrase could be innocent, but… Also, trying to obfuscate for town is a decent strat of scum for this game. It's a mixed bag, since they also want to find Merlin, but it's not too extreme.
What I was saying is, (example) if I propose that the optimal strategy is to vote yes on the first proposal every time and never pass it over, it gives the scum team a reason to just vote yes without having to justify their vote. They can just say "oh, it's the optimal strategy!" I lean pretty heavily on vote analysis, so I need accurate votals. I'm trying to walk a fine line between explaining the optimal strategy and not ruining my own scum hunting tools.
As far as obfuscating for town as scum, there's no reason to. I could have just vomited the whole thing into the thread and none of you (except maybe Rhand) would have batted an eye about it. Instead I'm making a big deal about it because, well, it's kind of a big deal. If I was scum, I'd be pushing for someone to counterclaim D_V and playing dumb about it if anyone asks. Even if it backfired, it's not like I can be lynched.
(Ok, maybe it's not strictly -EV. But we should probably drop it. I was trying to hint at that with my post right after D_V's claim and my post after you asked what I thought of D_V, but. For now just assume he's town unless he gets counterclaimed or we know he's throwing fails - if he's counterclaimed, we can just not put either of them on a quest team.)
Ok, I know I'm going against your recommendation with my response to Mindreaver, but I'm a little blown away by a Percival claim. What's "-EV"? And I don't like that last line; it feels almost like coaching as a way to take DV out of the equation.
It is coaching. I'm trying to keep us from losing without passing too much information to the scum team. I've typed up the exact logic like, five times then not posted it because I don't want scum to see it if they can't figure it out themselves. I want D_V out of the equation because of the logic I'm sitting on that I can't explain. Trust me or don't, but for the love of Arthur leave this alone. I'll explain in post-game if someone else doesn't let it out during the game.
I meant it sounded like coaching your scumbuddies: "hey, if someone counterclaims DV as Percival, then you're not going on any quests, but neither is Percival; take him out!" But in retrospect, Percival doesn't have to go on any quests to be effective, and eliminating one scum from the quest pool should be a little worse for scum than eliminating one town from the quest pool is for town, so there's probably no reason to coach.
"Nullifies the tells" - This phrase could be innocent, but… Also, trying to obfuscate for town is a decent strat of scum for this game. It's a mixed bag, since they also want to find Merlin, but it's not too extreme.
What I was saying is, (example) if I propose that the optimal strategy is to vote yes on the first proposal every time and never pass it over, it gives the scum team a reason to just vote yes without having to justify their vote. They can just say "oh, it's the optimal strategy!" I lean pretty heavily on vote analysis, so I need accurate votals. I'm trying to walk a fine line between explaining the optimal strategy and not ruining my own scum hunting tools.
As far as obfuscating for town as scum, there's no reason to. I could have just vomited the whole thing into the thread and none of you (except maybe Rhand) would have batted an eye about it. Instead I'm making a big deal about it because, well, it's kind of a big deal. If I was scum, I'd be pushing for someone to counterclaim D_V and playing dumb about it if anyone asks. Even if it backfired, it's not like I can be lynched.
The bolded is sorta what I suspected you of doing with the coaching. And it does matter, as every scum we identify significantly increases our chances of forming quests that pass. You can't be lynched, but you can be blacklisted.
I don't like the fact that you have dismissed me from any group.
Why?
Because if I propose a group with you in it, Vaimes and company won't let it go through. I think. I haven't gone back and looked to see who all doesn't trust you, so maybe they don't have enough votes.
I don't like the fact that you have dismissed me from any group.
Why?
Because if I propose a group with you in it, Vaimes and company won't let it go through. I think. I haven't gone back and looked to see who all doesn't trust you, so maybe they don't have enough votes.
A few people have talked about DV negatively, but Vaimes is the only one who has openly said he'd fight against a group with DV.
Well, I can't pick myself. And it doesn't appear that any team with D_V on it will go through.
Probably Rhand/Mindreaver/Vaimes. Not sold on Vaimes, but it'd be better than sending Osi or Terry. I'd prefer if neither of them went.
What would you think about Rhand/D_V/Vaimes?
Seems just as good as Rhand/Mindreaver/Vaimes, I guess. Mindreaver/D_V/Rhand are all about the same level of "town" to me so any of them with Vaimes is worse than those three together but better than any other team.
Actually. I had a thought. Can I get a show of hands? Who has played Avalon, or Resistance with roles before?
As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
I... actually still kind of think he's town, but he's probably not Percy then. Real Percy still should not claim. And I've probably been worried about nothing. Sorry.
I'd never even heard of it, and didn't realize it was a thing until people in the sign up thread talked about it as an existing thing, so I have zero experience with it.
As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
I... actually still kind of think he's town, but he's probably not Percy then. Real Percy still should not claim. And I've probably been worried about nothing. Sorry.
I thought DV was rescinding the "I'll vote for any quest today" claim, not his Percy claim...?
I'm a little soured on DV, though. Silver's got me double-thinking that motivation.
My quest nomination would probably be:
Shadow
Vaimes
Rhand
Although Shadow/Vaimes/Mindreaver would probably work, too.
@Cantrip:
I think D_V is town for his Percy claim.
If you agree, why am I making you double think it?
I just didn't want people going down certain paths there and posting them in thread because of reasons.
@D_V: There is some confusion. Are you retracting your Percy claim, or the thing where you said you would vote any group through?
@Cantrip:
I think D_V is town for his Percy claim.
If you agree, why am I making you double think it?
I just didn't want people going down certain paths there and posting them in thread because of reasons.
@D_V: There is some confusion. Are you retracting your Percy claim, or the thing where you said you would vote any group through?
No.
To be specific. I was retracting the part about randomly voting for any group because we couldn't get reads. I think we can get reads.
Also I wish you hadn't specifically said that because I don't think everyone understood what I had said.
I suppose I can see that. I didn't quite notice the percival claim (A bit of a mafia newb). But I'd say it's not particularly forced to scumread D_V and maybe Rhand.
See
How is this town? I vote not putting DV on a team.
I don't like DV.
Right now I would get behind Mindreaver, Silver and Shadow/vaime
Leaning More Scum:
Leaning Somewhat Scum:
Neutral:
Leaning Somewhat Town:
Leaning More Town:
I'd guess that at least one of Silver and Cantrip is scum, based on Rhand's post, and at the moment I'd lean Silver. Also, this is an iso game, hence why I'm not more certain on Mindreaver.
That was implied, yes.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oy, the lack of flips is going to throw me all game. Ok, so really the only downside for scum claiming Percival is that the real Percival knows they're scum and will discourage them going on a quest. So if DV is scum, he's not Morgana, as the real Percival would see one of his two "Merlin" possibilities and know which one could be trusted. But he would still know that DV is lying, and would discourage quests that included DV. Which is why town would be highly unlikely to false claim Percival, right? So it still feels likely that DV really is Percival. I'm going to have to ponder the reasons that the real Percival would claim.
Ok, I know I'm going against your recommendation with my response to Mindreaver, but I'm a little blown away by a Percival claim. What's "-EV"? And I don't like that last line; it feels almost like coaching as a way to take DV out of the equation.
Lets see what my group is (probably sometime saturday/sunday, to give DK a fair shot at participating) before we start pushing a better team.
Can you elborate on what this being an Iso game has to do with my alignment? Just curious. I know Iso is famously difficult to break via massclaims, role names, role PMs, etc. I just don't know how it applies here.
I understand why it would be bad to overuse, but in this case the precise reason you've discussed that it was good to put yourself on the quest in the first place and that it's bad to swap groups, gives me solid town read on you, so I would love to have someone I have a solid town read on a quest. How is that bad?
Just that I would not rely on iso putting a town member as the first chooser. Though I'd have to look more into strategies and math to figure out exactly what's the best plan on that. I'll see if I can do that before the weekend, or on my train this weekend.
Claiming Merlin is fine, but any and all claims after the fact only help the scumteam. Real claims means they will have an easier time hunting for Merlin, and fake claims could cause the real power roles to unintentionally slip up.
In fact, this game it isn't at all awful for the scumteam to "out" themselves, or be openly scummy. As long as some of them can get information via fakeclaims and rolefishing, they can still win with the Assassinatino even if we pass three quests. Scum have less of an incentive to stay hidden here.
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People who trust DV: first of all, stop. Second of all: why?
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Sigh.
So close, yet so far.
The mission leader not being able to nominate themselves is awful.
Maybe Silver instead of Mind? Hum.
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Town? That, or scummates with shadow, probably.
I assume you mean veto a quest, rather than fail it.
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osie, what specifically makes you think Silver could be scum?
"Nullifies the tells" - This phrase could be innocent, but… Also, trying to obfuscate for town is a decent strat of scum for this game. It's a mixed bag, since they also want to find Merlin, but it's not too extreme. Anyways, these were the points that led to that:
On Rhand:
On D_V:
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True. And it's also possible that it doesn't matter who chooses the first quest for the game to be enjoyable.
This is 100% opportunistic.
Vaimes is scum.
Vaimes had already commented multiple times yesterday when I made the claims that I did.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.
Right now, I haven't proposed a team. Probably the biggest development has been that I can't choose myself. Which was definitely going to be my first choice.
Are you joking DV? You're being super scummy, that does not make the second, third or fourth person saying you're scummy opportunistic. Just straight up, a not-Merlin claim is anti-town, even if you are Percy. Wagoning on any vote is scummy. Use your friggin brain, don't sheep, sheep are scum. Oh hey, here's a good way to tell a scum member out of the first mission... IT FAILS. WTF, seriously!? This is not a regular game of Mafia, it's three strikes and you're out or Merlin gets hit in the head by a pitch and dies and we lose. Both scenarios you are actively contributing to. Not reading the rules? Scummy.
I have read the rules. I've never actually played Avalon, but I have played a lot of resistance. Basically its a vote for a team see what happens go for there kind of game. Sure there are some tells you might pick up befor the first group but overall not really.
Also Vaimes sheeped you guys soooo.
yeah.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.[/quote]False. I made exactly one post after your claim. It was a quick phone post clarifying what I believed to be a contradiction in the rules (Silver mentioning that townies could fail quests when that is illegal in Avalon; if a town player fails a quest, the game needs to be rerolled). I just missed your post.
I caught up, saw that you had claimed Percival, went back to check, and decided that it made you very likely to be scum. Unless you want to refute my points that scum can openly rolefish and still win, despite town passing three quests?
Agreeing with a read != sheeping. Nice try though.
False. I made exactly one post after your claim. It was a quick phone post clarifying what I believed to be a contradiction in the rules (Silver mentioning that townies could fail quests when that is illegal in Avalon; if a town player fails a quest, the game needs to be rerolled). I just missed your post.
I caught up, saw that you had claimed Percival, went back to check, and decided that it made you very likely to be scum. Unless you want to refute my points that scum can openly rolefish and still win, despite town passing three quests?
Agreeing with a read != sheeping. Nice try though.
You will not be going on any quests. Sorry.
EV is Expected Value. -EV is bad for town, +EV is good for town. Well, in this instance anyway because I'm talking about town.
See above. And like my last four posts. Absent a counterclaim, I trust him. And I'm Merlin so he's either town or Mordred. Also, why are we rolefishing D_V if we know it's good for scum? Take his claim at face value - or don't - but either way it's just helping scum if we keep talking about it.
What I was saying is, (example) if I propose that the optimal strategy is to vote yes on the first proposal every time and never pass it over, it gives the scum team a reason to just vote yes without having to justify their vote. They can just say "oh, it's the optimal strategy!" I lean pretty heavily on vote analysis, so I need accurate votals. I'm trying to walk a fine line between explaining the optimal strategy and not ruining my own scum hunting tools.
As far as obfuscating for town as scum, there's no reason to. I could have just vomited the whole thing into the thread and none of you (except maybe Rhand) would have batted an eye about it. Instead I'm making a big deal about it because, well, it's kind of a big deal. If I was scum, I'd be pushing for someone to counterclaim D_V and playing dumb about it if anyone asks. Even if it backfired, it's not like I can be lynched.
The bolded is sorta what I suspected you of doing with the coaching. And it does matter, as every scum we identify significantly increases our chances of forming quests that pass. You can't be lynched, but you can be blacklisted.
Actually, Cantrip, silver, if you were picking the teams, who would you pick?
Probably Rhand/Mindreaver/Vaimes. Not sold on Vaimes, but it'd be better than sending Osi or Terry. I'd prefer if neither of them went.
I don't like the fact that you have dismissed me from any group.
Why?
Assume any group you pick will go through, do you swap out Vaimes for DV?
Because if I propose a group with you in it, Vaimes and company won't let it go through. I think. I haven't gone back and looked to see who all doesn't trust you, so maybe they don't have enough votes.
What would you think about Rhand/D_V/Vaimes?
So who are your top 3?
If I got to pick the quest I would send:
1. Mindreaver
2. Shadow
3. Vaimes
I had silver on the list earlier, but he's dropped off because he seems to think DV's claim cleared him instead of condemned him.
What do you make of DV rescinding his claim? Also, someone having differing reads than your own shouldn't be the only think to condemn them.
Actually. I had a thought. Can I get a show of hands? Who has played Avalon, or Resistance with roles before?
I have not, but I read a lot after I went /in.
I... actually still kind of think he's town, but he's probably not Percy then. Real Percy still should not claim. And I've probably been worried about nothing. Sorry.
I'm a little soured on DV, though. Silver's got me double-thinking that motivation.
My quest nomination would probably be:
Shadow
Vaimes
Rhand
Although Shadow/Vaimes/Mindreaver would probably work, too.
@Osie: "not not not-scum" = town.
I think D_V is town for his Percy claim.
If you agree, why am I making you double think it?
I just didn't want people going down certain paths there and posting them in thread because of reasons.
@D_V: There is some confusion. Are you retracting your Percy claim, or the thing where you said you would vote any group through?
No.
To be specific. I was retracting the part about randomly voting for any group because we couldn't get reads. I think we can get reads.
Also I wish you hadn't specifically said that because I don't think everyone understood what I had said.
Just so we're all on the same page.
just kidding, first timer, and I didn't look up anything until today. I wasn't going to sign up, and then I saw Iso's heart breaking and joined.