It should be pretty obvious why that doesn't work.
Enlighten me.
But I'm not saying scum Vaimes.
Scum team didn't know I was faking my claim. So they assumed I was real. They have their own counter claimer. Who still hasn't shown their face.
Then Vaimes counter claimed and they didn't know what was going on at all.
So...you DIDN'T answer the question. Don't do it now. Only provides perspective to any scum on the quest if you're town or manipulates town on the quest if you're scum. Like I said, the value in you answering that question would have been before the quest successfully went.
What no the question was if it failed who was scum out of the group.
My answer was Rhand.
That was a direct answer. I'm just saying that having one scum isn't the worst.
DV, in the politest way possible. It was pretty obvious that you were scum from very early on, fake claiming to draw out a town PR. I'm surprised the charade went on as long as it did and that even to this moment some people still believe you are misguided town. OK, I'm going to play along. Let me ask you this Mr. Misguided Townee:
That probably gets 1 fail from Mindreaver, unless he decides to play things really risky for scum and let it pass.
@D_V: If that passes, who do you add to that pile?
I've made it pretty clear how I feel about rhand.
There's no way you're this bad at reading. There are TWO indications that Osie is talking about it passing ("adding to the pile" rather than "who would you cut/drop/suspect as scum", and, well, the word "passes"), not failing. TDTBS only gets you so many passes, and this one is the final straw for me.
Again, don't answer the question now, please. If it passes, I guess we'll see who you will add.
That probably gets 1 fail from Mindreaver, unless he decides to play things really risky for scum and let it pass.
@D_V: If that passes, who do you add to that pile?
I've made it pretty clear how I feel about rhand.
Tell me how Osie's statement isn't "[Cantrip's proposed quest] probably gets 1 fail from Mindreaver..." In which case, he's asking "if [Cantrip's proposed quest] [gets five pass-votes, counts toward the town wincon], who do you add to that pile?"
What may be even more telling is that Osie didn't follow up on that in 774.
@Osie: You're the only one who can set this straight. What were you asking in 761? If I'm interpreting you correctly, why didn't you follow up on DV's (nonsensical) response?
@DV: To clarify, I figured he's asking you who you ADD to the pile that passed (as in, Q3 passed with five pass-votes from the people Cantrip nominated), so who do you, as DV, add to that list because you're next in line to propose a quest.
Frickin.
Just NO WAY you interpret that question as "if this proposal passes with six yeses, who on the quest is scum". NO WAY you see the word "add" and think "oh, he's asking me who I think is scum".
I'm so done.
Iso needs to get in here and give us results (or ask for votes from the questors if they obnoxiously haven't all already submitted them).
@DV: To clarify, I figured he's asking you who you ADD to the pile that passed (as in, Q3 passed with five pass-votes from the people Cantrip nominated), so who do you, as DV, add to that list because you're next in line to propose a quest.
Frickin.
Just NO WAY you interpret that question as "if this proposal passes with six yeses, who on the quest is scum". NO WAY you see the word "add" and think "oh, he's asking me who I think is scum".
I'm so done.
Iso needs to get in here and give us results (or ask for votes from the questors if they obnoxiously haven't all already submitted them).
Dude the proposal is literally 2 posts above it.
His other comment is about who he thinks is scum in that proposal.
So yes. That's exactly how it should be interpreted.
still haven't had the time to post meaningful content but I've been reading to keep up on my townreads.
That quest proposal rounds out a good solution to test rhand and proph and potentially net us a pass on the hardest quest. vote yes
I didn't know AG existed until I was labeled as all mostly pretty scummy. Lemme just find my makeup and impersonate Buffalo Bill so I'm the real pretty scummy...
@Osie: You're the only one who can set this straight. What were you asking in 761? If I'm interpreting you correctly, why didn't you follow up on DV's (nonsensical) response?
You got it right. The question was "If Q3 passes, who do you add as a 6th person?" I i
As for lack of follow-up, I was tired (as mentioned in post 774), and then forgot about it later (it's been a busy week for me; today was an oasis of relaxation in the middle of a hellish desert of schoolwork). I think that at a glance, I also expected his answer meant "I'd have to think about it because I'd be adding two people, one as a sixth, and another to replace Rhand." Then, as you mentioned, it was no longer worth him answering.
Have patience with iso. I do not envy his work schedule.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll try to post tomorrow morning investigating that possibility, though gun to my head right now it's one of Rhand or Mindreaver. If Silver is indeed scum, then super well played man.
Also sorry for being so absent this week, I've been insanely busy with school. Gonna catch up tomorrow.
I think mindreaver was the scum there. But it can be Proph.
We know that Vaimes - DV - Silver - Shadow = 1 fail
Vaimes - Silver - Rhand - Proph - Mindreaver = 1 fail
I think it's safest to keep the 1 fail and add 1 person we think is town (Cantrip?) instead of swapping out an unknown and adding 2 people.
@D_V: I agree with Silver in believing that you are town. If you still don't trust me, that's on you. But since the next two quests are 2 votes to fail, we can add Cantrip here and then I can add you on the next quest. If you trust me enough to test if I'm right, replace Mindreaver with me and Cantrip. We get nothing from just doing the same quest +1, and I am very certain that it wasn't one of the other quest members. Proph, Rhand, Silver, and Vaimes are all too likely to be town.
Heck, we have our backs to the wall...
If it is within my ability to do so (if 6 people do not vote the same way as each other before me),I will vote NO on any Q4 proposal from D_V other than Proph, Rhand, Silver, Vaimes, Cantrip, Osieorb18.
If it is within my ability to do so (if 6 people do not vote the same way as each other before me),I will vote NO on any Q4 proposal from D_V other than Proph, Rhand, Silver, Vaimes, Cantrip, Osieorb18.
EBWOP: Or Proph, Rhand, Silver, Vaimes, Cantrip, Mindreaver by virtue of playing it safe.
Quest 3 + Cantrip sounds good to me I think? I seriously need to do a full reread of this game now though. Very possible I'm just WRONG about the entire gamestate.
Feels like osieorb's alignment is the key to this game to be honest. He was my top scum read when I replaced in but his posts keep getting more solvey. 823 in particular reads like a poem.
Yeah, I had a feeling. Here's the thing - if most of the thread agrees on the team it probably has scum in it. Because almost half the thread is scum. We're significantly handicapped by low content posters in this format because if they're town there's no way we can know that unless we're Merlin, who loses the game if they out themselves.
Rhand/Cantrip I don't think have done anything outside of their respective scum ranges. If it's Mindreaver he's matched his town meta almost perfectly, at least as near as I can tell. Which leaves Proph, who I kind of still think is town but hasn't done anything especially townie to prove it.
I want to agree with Rhand's suggestion. But I think there's a decent chance that he's scum. Which would mean that either there are two scum on Q3 but one threw a pass, or one of the other consensus town reads likely to be added are scum with him (Cantrip probably).
I don't want Cantrip and Rhand on the same quest. Since it's D_V's selection, he can't pick himself. I want to swap Rhand for Osi, fifth should be someone who isn't Cantrip or shadow. Up to D_V ultimately though, I guess.
I'll try to do votes sometime tonight but I have some projects for school due on Monday/Tuesday so we'll see.
(oh, there's the chance that Rhand is actually town, in which case the scum is probably Proph and Rhand's Q2 proposal would have passed. In that case the proposal failed because scum voted against it. I'll look at that when I have time to do the votes.)
Man I really might be coming around to osieorb town.
Quote from osieorb »
Soon after post 370 we get to the point where I really started thinking about the game and if I even wanted to continue playing as a heavily scumread town member.
Silver - I'm town, I've just been heavily disengaged with this game because it's so different from actual mafia that I regret replacing into it.
I recognize that I have not managed to prove my alignment in any way, and I apologize for that. I was really looking forward to dunking scum and spamming Sho gifs all day until I realized that all we can do to the scum is to /not/ send them on any quests.
Quote from Silvercrys »
Rhand/Cantrip I don't think have done anything outside of their respective scum ranges
Are you familiar with either of their scum ranges, Silver? I respect both of them and know they can be very solid as both alignments but I think their scumgames were before your time?
Quote from Silvercrys »
If it's Mindreaver he's matched his town meta almost perfectly, at least as near as I can tell.
I'm sure I've read some of Rhand and Cantrip's scum games but I'd have to dig up the links. I don't remember which games off hand.
Mindreaver's town meta is like. I guess it comes down to my experience with him more than anything else? I knew he was town in TriggerHappy when he was a mislynch scum really, really needed. I misread him in BareBones and we almost lost the game because we lynched him instead of shadow, who I thought was town. I guess I could just be so used to him being town I'm not really looking for scummyness from him, but. He's reasonably engaged, posting thoughtfully, logical, etc. None of that means a lot without a scum game to compare to, I guess. But I think he's town.
There's some little things, too, like. Asking to put Shockwave on Q1 so it auto passes. His looking for people more worried about group composition more than vote patterns. His "Are you scum yet Silver?" I think is too cute for scum!Mindreaver since he'd be drawing my attention to him having not been scum yet, either. I'm mobile posting or I'd look for more recent stuff.
I think mindreaver was the scum there. But it can be Proph.
We know that Vaimes - DV - Silver - Shadow = 1 fail
Vaimes - Silver - Rhand - Proph - Mindreaver = 1 fail
I think it's safest to keep the 1 fail and add 1 person we think is town (Cantrip?) instead of swapping out an unknown and adding 2 people.
That could work, I'm just not certain that Cantrip is town.
I think mindreaver was the scum there. But it can be Proph.
We know that Vaimes - DV - Silver - Shadow = 1 fail
Vaimes - Silver - Rhand - Proph - Mindreaver = 1 fail
I think it's safest to keep the 1 fail and add 1 person we think is town (Cantrip?) instead of swapping out an unknown and adding 2 people.
That could work, I'm just not certain that Cantrip is town.
Yeh I know.
This is where I stand now:
Town
Rhand
Vaimes
Silver
Proph OR Mindreaver
Shadow OR DV
Cantrip OR AG
Brinatoo OR Terry
Osi
Scum
Our best chance is taking a full dichotomy-duo + 1 more.
*Proph / Mindreaver: I trust Proph more here, but the evidence pointing towards his town!mindset is feeble. It's close to a coinflip.
*Shadow / DV: I am convinced DV wouldn't have done that claim as scum. I'm heavily leaning towards Shadow being the scum in this pairing, but I think putting DV on a team won't pass. And DV has to choose the team too.
*Cantrip / AG: I've townread Cantrip form the start, and AG is kind of a non-entity. Cantrip is good enough a player to fool me though.
*Brinatoo / Terry: I'm very conflicted here. I've been reading Terry as scum for the whole game, but Brinatoo is so non-existent that he can hardly be town.
This is all under the assumption that Osi is scum. If I throw that assumption away, it becomes this:
Town
Rhand
Vaimes
Silver
DV OR Shadow
Proph OR Mind
2 out of Cantrip, AG, Brinatoo, Terry, Osi
Purely based on chance, we should add 3 out of DV, Shadow, Proph and Mind to succeed the quest. That's 50% chance.
The next best option is one duo (Proph + Mind since DV is proposing) + 1 out of the group of 5, in which there are 3 scum. That's 40% chance. And what DV will have to do since he cannot propose himself.
I think we need a voting order for next quest, so that we can see how the possible scum vote before we decide on the quest in the end.
I would say:
Osi
Brinatoo
Shadow
AG
Mind
Terry
Proph
Cantrip
(DV)
Rhand
Silver
Vaimes
I put DV in brackets because we should keep up voting order until we pass a proposition.
This way the 3 last votes are sure town and scum hopefully goes early. I'm assuming they're not going to pass a plan that gives us the win, so this should give us some nice info.
I think we need a voting order for next quest, so that we can see how the possible scum vote before we decide on the quest in the end.
I would say:
Osi
Brinatoo
Shadow
AG
Mind
Terry
Proph
Cantrip
(DV)
Rhand
Silver
Vaimes
I put DV in brackets because we should keep up voting order until we pass a proposition.
This way the 3 last votes are sure town and scum hopefully goes early. I'm assuming they're not going to pass a plan that gives us the win, so this should give us some nice info.
We should have done this all along. Wish I'd thought of it.
I'm between Rhand and Proph on this fail. I believe Vaimes' claim, I am going to trust my read on silver, and I know how I voted. Rhand is coming off really townie after that last post, I'm going to reflect a bit on what that means. It's possible he thinks he can just out-town proph to a win here. Or this might just be what it looks like, a town trying to figure out a win.
How worried are we that both Rhand AND Proph are Scum together right now? Just collectively.
I'm leaning that it would be really tight play for them to both be on there, and only generate one fail vote. I don't see anything in their posts that would indicate any signalling to the other (I'll fail it, you vote pass!).
My question is really whether we want to take a the 5 we have here, with a single fail vote, and roll the dice with a 6th person? Figuring on just one fail + the addition. I suspect one of Cantrip/AG would be the choice. But if we're at all worried that both Rhand and Proph are scum, we'd autolose no matter who we pick, so it kinda all depends on that, more than who would be added.
Our best chance is taking a full dichotomy-duo + 1 more.
*Proph / Mindreaver: I trust Proph more here, but the evidence pointing towards his town!mindset is feeble. It's close to a coinflip.
*Shadow / DV: I am convinced DV wouldn't have done that claim as scum. I'm heavily leaning towards Shadow being the scum in this pairing, but I think putting DV on a team won't pass. And DV has to choose the team too.
*Cantrip / AG: I've townread Cantrip form the start, and AG is kind of a non-entity. Cantrip is good enough a player to fool me though.
*Brinatoo / Terry: I'm very conflicted here. I've been reading Terry as scum for the whole game, but Brinatoo is so non-existent that he can hardly be town.
Yeah, same as above, I think I'm just missing something with Terry/Brin.
Purely based on chance, we should add 3 out of DV, Shadow, Proph and Mind to succeed the quest. That's 50% chance.
The next best option is one duo (Proph + Mind since DV is proposing) + 1 out of the group of 5, in which there are 3 scum. That's 40% chance. And what DV will have to do since he cannot propose himself.
If all your dichotomies are accurate (and I'm not sold that Brin/Terry is one, although I do have to admit that PoE alone would lead me to one or both as scum at this point), we probably have to include *parts* of two of them. and it comes down to these possibilities (i'm leaving out the terry/brin stuff, because I think they are both risky):
me, proph, cantrip
me, proph, AG
me, proph, DV
me, porph, shadow
cantrip, AG, Me
cantrip, AG, proph
cantrip, AG, D_V
cantrip, AG, Shadow
DV, Shadow, me
DV, Shadow, proph
DV, Shadow, Cantrip
DV, Shadow, AG
Half of those have 1 scum, and half have 2, if my math is correct and Rhand's dichotomies are really dichotomies.
@Rhand - My PoV is that your name takes the place of mine (it's either you or proph). From that perspective "you" are "me" in these lists. which one is most attractive to add to three town to you? @Proph, same question.
I might be missing it, but why is Terry/Brinatoo a Dichotomy? I remember how we arrived at the others.
Because they were the only 2 players left and I am only missing 1 scum.
Why do you only have 4 scum accounted for here? Also, if this specific scenario, Osi should be in the town block.
I don't. I'm talking about 2 town in that block of 5 people, not 2 scum.
I didn't put Osi in the town block because I'm simply not assuming he's scum and throwing away the info I took from that one post he made.
If all your dichotomies are accurate (and I'm not sold that Brin/Terry is one, although I do have to admit that PoE alone would lead me to one or both as scum at this point), we probably have to include *parts* of two of them.
That's what I was saying. We take 1 full dichotomy, creating 1 fail, and add the person that we are most confident in to that.
and it comes down to these possibilities (i'm leaving out the terry/brin stuff, because I think they are both risky):
me, proph, cantrip
me, proph, AG
me, proph, DV
me, porph, shadow
cantrip, AG, Me
cantrip, AG, proph
cantrip, AG, D_V
cantrip, AG, Shadow
DV, Shadow, me
DV, Shadow, proph
DV, Shadow, Cantrip
DV, Shadow, AG
Half of those have 1 scum, and half have 2, if my math is correct and Rhand's dichotomies are really dichotomies.
@Rhand - My PoV is that your name takes the place of mine (it's either you or proph). From that perspective "you" are "me" in these lists. which one is most attractive to add to three town to you? @Proph, same question.
I'm unsure and that's why I want to vote in a certain order.
I think DV + any dichotomy is what I'm most comfortable with, followed by Cantrip and then Proph.
Since Osi's post is unreliable, I would go for Mind, Proph, DV / Mind, Proph, Cantrip / Shadow, DV, Cantrip or Shadow, DV, Proph (all with me, Silver, Vaimes obviously)
I really like the idea of a voting order. I wish DV went before me, but that's okay.
I also think that we should make sure we don't hammer, we are in a sort of LyLo scenario where if the proposition has 2 scum on it, if it gets up to 5 votes, any one of the scum not yet voting will be able to hammer it for a town loss.
And anyone who is voting yes would have to be wary of a pile on of new votes. I almost think we should do vote intent rather than actual votes. The downside to this is a situation where someone can say whatever they want without actually backing it up with a vote.
me, proph, cantrip
me, proph, AG
me, proph, DV
me, porph, shadow
cantrip, AG, Me
cantrip, AG, proph
cantrip, AG, D_V
cantrip, AG, Shadow
DV, Shadow, me
DV, Shadow, proph
DV, Shadow, Cantrip
DV, Shadow, AG
Doesn't this miss the dichotomy-viable solution:
DV, Proph, Cantrip
Just wondering about that.
------------
A voting order... Hmm. I'm not enthused by the selection of people who think it is a good idea. But the big thing for me is how it gets organized... Randomized might be better in that respect than going off of what someone says, so that noone has to post readwalls. Just based on averaging a bunch of what people have said, the vote order list would look something like:
EBWOP: Average read list is hilarious as a way to not provide any information on reads that people can't figure out themselves from reading the thread.
me, proph, cantrip
me, proph, AG
me, proph, DV
me, porph, shadow
cantrip, AG, Me
cantrip, AG, proph
cantrip, AG, D_V
cantrip, AG, Shadow
DV, Shadow, me
DV, Shadow, proph
DV, Shadow, Cantrip
DV, Shadow, AG
Doesn't this miss the dichotomy-viable solution:
DV, Proph, Cantrip
Just wondering about that.
So yes, we can pick the "favorite" or "consensus" from each dichotomy: DV/Shadow, Cantrip/AG, Proph/Mindreaver(Rhand); but that doesn't give us a 50/50 shot. Each "choice" is 50/50, and in the end you're probably looking at some small percentage of those teams are no scum, the same percentage is 3 scum, lots of 1 scum groups, and lots of two scum. Maybe you'd get luck there, but I think the math works better adding one "full dichotomy" (we will absolutely generate 1 fail), and then 1 other person from another dichotomy, getting to the 50/50.
In reality, and I'm only spoiling this because I really liked Rhand's answer to the question, we're at the same 50/50 that keeping this group and adding one more ends up being. So if we decide to add Cantrip, for instance, we're 50/50 about whether that quest passes with 1 fail or loses completely. It's statistically the same as getting rid of "Mindreaver/Proph" and adding "Shadow/D_V". The only hazard is, if it's really Rhand that's the scum. Then we've left the scum on the quest and added a second scum in shadow/D_V. And it won't matter if that last player is scum or not.
So the more I think about it, the more I either want to remove Proph/Me/Rhand, and go for Cantrip/D_V/(Terry/Brin/Osi ???) solution, which seems risky; or go for not trying to figure out the one fail in the last five, and just find 1 more town to get the win. I think we're closer there.
It's important to note that "Finding 1 more town and getting the win" is not accurate, as we are down 1-2, so we have to succeed 2 back to back quests.
It's important to note that "Finding 1 more town and getting the win" is not accurate, as we are down 1-2, so we have to succeed 2 back to back quests.
it's where we are actually.
Groups 4 and 5 are 6 people each; and we have a 5 person team that is currently generating 1 fail. As long as we are sure to add town to that group, and it passes, we can send the exact same group a second time.
We also CAN force the second group by where we've landed in the rotation. SOOOO, I think what we should decide is whether we let D_V fill the void with Cantrip; or we'd rather pass and force Brinatoo to pass the group + D_V. If he refuses and nominates another group we can get AG to do it, Osi to do it, then Shadow. But if it makes it that far, we're probably screwed because we'd HAVE to vote yes for Silver's proposal (sans Silver) to not lose.
Yeah, now that I look at that list, I'm a little worried actually. Silver -> Vaimes -> Me -> proph -> Rhand. That sucks. We probably shouldn't pass if we can avoid it.
It's important to note that "Finding 1 more town and getting the win" is not accurate, as we are down 1-2, so we have to succeed 2 back to back quests.
it's where we are actually.
Groups 4 and 5 are 6 people each; and we have a 5 person team that is currently generating 1 fail. As long as we are sure to add town to that group, and it passes, we can send the exact same group a second time.
We also CAN force the second group by where we've landed in the rotation. SOOOO, I think what we should decide is whether we let D_V fill the void with Cantrip; or we'd rather pass and force Brinatoo to pass the group + D_V. If he refuses and nominates another group we can get AG to do it, Osi to do it, then Shadow. But if it makes it that far, we're probably screwed because we'd HAVE to vote yes for Silver's proposal (sans Silver) to not lose.
Yeah, now that I look at that list, I'm a little worried actually. Silver -> Vaimes -> Me -> proph -> Rhand. That sucks. We probably shouldn't pass if we can avoid it.
Yup, I'm a dummy, 6 people for both. And for what it's worth, the current group + DV would be almost a sure loss unless silver is scum.
me, proph, cantrip
me, proph, AG
me, proph, DV
me, porph, shadow
cantrip, AG, Me
cantrip, AG, proph
cantrip, AG, D_V
cantrip, AG, Shadow
DV, Shadow, me
DV, Shadow, proph
DV, Shadow, Cantrip
DV, Shadow, AG
Doesn't this miss the dichotomy-viable solution:
DV, Proph, Cantrip
Just wondering about that.
So yes, we can pick the "favorite" or "consensus" from each dichotomy: DV/Shadow, Cantrip/AG, Proph/Mindreaver(Rhand); but that doesn't give us a 50/50 shot. Each "choice" is 50/50, and in the end you're probably looking at some small percentage of those teams are no scum, the same percentage is 3 scum, lots of 1 scum groups, and lots of two scum. Maybe you'd get luck there, but I think the math works better adding one "full dichotomy" (we will absolutely generate 1 fail), and then 1 other person from another dichotomy, getting to the 50/50.
In reality, and I'm only spoiling this because I really liked Rhand's answer to the question, we're at the same 50/50 that keeping this group and adding one more ends up being. So if we decide to add Cantrip, for instance, we're 50/50 about whether that quest passes with 1 fail or loses completely. It's statistically the same as getting rid of "Mindreaver/Proph" and adding "Shadow/D_V". The only hazard is, if it's really Rhand that's the scum. Then we've left the scum on the quest and added a second scum in shadow/D_V. And it won't matter if that last player is scum or not.
So the more I think about it, the more I either want to remove Proph/Me/Rhand, and go for Cantrip/D_V/(Terry/Brin/Osi ???) solution, which seems risky; or go for not trying to figure out the one fail in the last five, and just find 1 more town to get the win. I think we're closer there.
umm No. I'm not questing with my two top scum reads.
Enlighten me.
But I'm not saying scum Vaimes.
Scum team didn't know I was faking my claim. So they assumed I was real. They have their own counter claimer. Who still hasn't shown their face.
Then Vaimes counter claimed and they didn't know what was going on at all.
What no the question was if it failed who was scum out of the group.
My answer was Rhand.
That was a direct answer. I'm just saying that having one scum isn't the worst.
Who on the scum team thought your claim was real?
There's no way you're this bad at reading. There are TWO indications that Osie is talking about it passing ("adding to the pile" rather than "who would you cut/drop/suspect as scum", and, well, the word "passes"), not failing. TDTBS only gets you so many passes, and this one is the final straw for me.
Again, don't answer the question now, please. If it passes, I guess we'll see who you will add.
Thats not even remotely contextually correct.
You literally just showed you're not even in the game.
Now I have to revise my read on you.
The comment was about if the questing part passes who would I say is scum.
Tell me how Osie's statement isn't "[Cantrip's proposed quest] probably gets 1 fail from Mindreaver..." In which case, he's asking "if [Cantrip's proposed quest] [gets five pass-votes, counts toward the town wincon], who do you add to that pile?"
What may be even more telling is that Osie didn't follow up on that in 774.
@Osie: You're the only one who can set this straight. What were you asking in 761? If I'm interpreting you correctly, why didn't you follow up on DV's (nonsensical) response?
Frickin.
Just NO WAY you interpret that question as "if this proposal passes with six yeses, who on the quest is scum". NO WAY you see the word "add" and think "oh, he's asking me who I think is scum".
I'm so done.
Iso needs to get in here and give us results (or ask for votes from the questors if they obnoxiously haven't all already submitted them).
Dude the proposal is literally 2 posts above it.
His other comment is about who he thinks is scum in that proposal.
So yes. That's exactly how it should be interpreted.
That quest proposal rounds out a good solution to test rhand and proph and potentially net us a pass on the hardest quest. vote yes
I didn't know AG existed until I was labeled as all mostly pretty scummy. Lemme just find my makeup and impersonate Buffalo Bill so I'm the real pretty scummy...
You got it right. The question was "If Q3 passes, who do you add as a 6th person?" I i
As for lack of follow-up, I was tired (as mentioned in post 774), and then forgot about it later (it's been a busy week for me; today was an oasis of relaxation in the middle of a hellish desert of schoolwork). I think that at a glance, I also expected his answer meant "I'd have to think about it because I'd be adding two people, one as a sixth, and another to replace Rhand." Then, as you mentioned, it was no longer worth him answering.
Have patience with iso. I do not envy his work schedule.
I'm retarded then.
Well it would have been Cantrip as my answer.
Yes (6): Prophylaxis, D_V, Rhand, Silvercrys3467, Vaimes, Mindreaver
Quest 3's party proposal has passed.
Vaimes, Rhand, Mindreaver, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467 - you know the drill.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fail: 1
Quest 3 has failed.
2 Quests have failed. Tread carefully, Knights of Camelot!
It is now Quest 4's party selection phase.
It is D_V's turn to propose a questing party.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Guaranteed there's scum in my townbloc, then.
I'll try to post tomorrow morning investigating that possibility, though gun to my head right now it's one of Rhand or Mindreaver. If Silver is indeed scum, then super well played man.
Also sorry for being so absent this week, I've been insanely busy with school. Gonna catch up tomorrow.
I thought for SURE that would pass. I'm thinking Proph or Mindreaver for the fail.
Weekends are always sketchy for me, but I'll devote some time to this on Monday at the latest.
We know that Vaimes - DV - Silver - Shadow = 1 fail
Vaimes - Silver - Rhand - Proph - Mindreaver = 1 fail
I think it's safest to keep the 1 fail and add 1 person we think is town (Cantrip?) instead of swapping out an unknown and adding 2 people.
Heck, we have our backs to the wall...
If it is within my ability to do so (if 6 people do not vote the same way as each other before me), I will vote NO on any Q4 proposal from D_V other than Proph, Rhand, Silver, Vaimes, Cantrip, Osieorb18.
EBWOP: Or Proph, Rhand, Silver, Vaimes, Cantrip, Mindreaver by virtue of playing it safe.
Feels like osieorb's alignment is the key to this game to be honest. He was my top scum read when I replaced in but his posts keep getting more solvey. 823 in particular reads like a poem.
Is it Rhand or Mindreaver?
Rhand/Cantrip I don't think have done anything outside of their respective scum ranges. If it's Mindreaver he's matched his town meta almost perfectly, at least as near as I can tell. Which leaves Proph, who I kind of still think is town but hasn't done anything especially townie to prove it.
I want to agree with Rhand's suggestion. But I think there's a decent chance that he's scum. Which would mean that either there are two scum on Q3 but one threw a pass, or one of the other consensus town reads likely to be added are scum with him (Cantrip probably).
I don't want Cantrip and Rhand on the same quest. Since it's D_V's selection, he can't pick himself. I want to swap Rhand for Osi, fifth should be someone who isn't Cantrip or shadow. Up to D_V ultimately though, I guess.
I'll try to do votes sometime tonight but I have some projects for school due on Monday/Tuesday so we'll see.
Reads as heavily genuine.
Hmm.
I recognize that I have not managed to prove my alignment in any way, and I apologize for that. I was really looking forward to dunking scum and spamming Sho gifs all day until I realized that all we can do to the scum is to /not/ send them on any quests.
Are you familiar with either of their scum ranges, Silver? I respect both of them and know they can be very solid as both alignments but I think their scumgames were before your time?
What is Mindreaver's town meta?
Mindreaver's town meta is like. I guess it comes down to my experience with him more than anything else? I knew he was town in TriggerHappy when he was a mislynch scum really, really needed. I misread him in BareBones and we almost lost the game because we lynched him instead of shadow, who I thought was town. I guess I could just be so used to him being town I'm not really looking for scummyness from him, but. He's reasonably engaged, posting thoughtfully, logical, etc. None of that means a lot without a scum game to compare to, I guess. But I think he's town.
There's some little things, too, like. Asking to put Shockwave on Q1 so it auto passes. His looking for people more worried about group composition more than vote patterns. His "Are you scum yet Silver?" I think is too cute for scum!Mindreaver since he'd be drawing my attention to him having not been scum yet, either. I'm mobile posting or I'd look for more recent stuff.
That could work, I'm just not certain that Cantrip is town.
As a note the common denominator now is Silver.
Yeh I know.
This is where I stand now:
Town
Rhand
Vaimes
Silver
Proph OR Mindreaver
Shadow OR DV
Cantrip OR AG
Brinatoo OR Terry
Osi
Scum
Our best chance is taking a full dichotomy-duo + 1 more.
*Proph / Mindreaver: I trust Proph more here, but the evidence pointing towards his town!mindset is feeble. It's close to a coinflip.
*Shadow / DV: I am convinced DV wouldn't have done that claim as scum. I'm heavily leaning towards Shadow being the scum in this pairing, but I think putting DV on a team won't pass. And DV has to choose the team too.
*Cantrip / AG: I've townread Cantrip form the start, and AG is kind of a non-entity. Cantrip is good enough a player to fool me though.
*Brinatoo / Terry: I'm very conflicted here. I've been reading Terry as scum for the whole game, but Brinatoo is so non-existent that he can hardly be town.
This is all under the assumption that Osi is scum. If I throw that assumption away, it becomes this:
Town
Rhand
Vaimes
Silver
DV OR Shadow
Proph OR Mind
2 out of Cantrip, AG, Brinatoo, Terry, Osi
Purely based on chance, we should add 3 out of DV, Shadow, Proph and Mind to succeed the quest. That's 50% chance.
The next best option is one duo (Proph + Mind since DV is proposing) + 1 out of the group of 5, in which there are 3 scum. That's 40% chance. And what DV will have to do since he cannot propose himself.
I think we need a voting order for next quest, so that we can see how the possible scum vote before we decide on the quest in the end.
I would say:
Osi
Brinatoo
Shadow
AG
Mind
Terry
Proph
Cantrip
(DV)
Rhand
Silver
Vaimes
I put DV in brackets because we should keep up voting order until we pass a proposition.
This way the 3 last votes are sure town and scum hopefully goes early. I'm assuming they're not going to pass a plan that gives us the win, so this should give us some nice info.
I'm between Rhand and Proph on this fail. I believe Vaimes' claim, I am going to trust my read on silver, and I know how I voted. Rhand is coming off really townie after that last post, I'm going to reflect a bit on what that means. It's possible he thinks he can just out-town proph to a win here. Or this might just be what it looks like, a town trying to figure out a win.
I'm leaning that it would be really tight play for them to both be on there, and only generate one fail vote. I don't see anything in their posts that would indicate any signalling to the other (I'll fail it, you vote pass!).
My question is really whether we want to take a the 5 we have here, with a single fail vote, and roll the dice with a 6th person? Figuring on just one fail + the addition. I suspect one of Cantrip/AG would be the choice. But if we're at all worried that both Rhand and Proph are scum, we'd autolose no matter who we pick, so it kinda all depends on that, more than who would be added.
I might be missing it, but why is Terry/Brinatoo a Dichotomy? I remember how we arrived at the others.
Yeah, same as above, I think I'm just missing something with Terry/Brin.
Why do you only have 4 scum accounted for here? Also, if this specific scenario, Osi should be in the town block.
If all your dichotomies are accurate (and I'm not sold that Brin/Terry is one, although I do have to admit that PoE alone would lead me to one or both as scum at this point), we probably have to include *parts* of two of them. and it comes down to these possibilities (i'm leaving out the terry/brin stuff, because I think they are both risky):
me, proph, cantrip
me, proph, AG
me, proph, DV
me, porph, shadow
cantrip, AG, Me
cantrip, AG, proph
cantrip, AG, D_V
cantrip, AG, Shadow
DV, Shadow, me
DV, Shadow, proph
DV, Shadow, Cantrip
DV, Shadow, AG
Half of those have 1 scum, and half have 2, if my math is correct and Rhand's dichotomies are really dichotomies.
@Rhand - My PoV is that your name takes the place of mine (it's either you or proph). From that perspective "you" are "me" in these lists. which one is most attractive to add to three town to you? @Proph, same question.
Because they were the only 2 players left and I am only missing 1 scum.
I don't. I'm talking about 2 town in that block of 5 people, not 2 scum.
I didn't put Osi in the town block because I'm simply not assuming he's scum and throwing away the info I took from that one post he made.
That's what I was saying. We take 1 full dichotomy, creating 1 fail, and add the person that we are most confident in to that.
I'm unsure and that's why I want to vote in a certain order.
I think DV + any dichotomy is what I'm most comfortable with, followed by Cantrip and then Proph.
Since Osi's post is unreliable, I would go for Mind, Proph, DV / Mind, Proph, Cantrip / Shadow, DV, Cantrip or Shadow, DV, Proph (all with me, Silver, Vaimes obviously)
I also think that we should make sure we don't hammer, we are in a sort of LyLo scenario where if the proposition has 2 scum on it, if it gets up to 5 votes, any one of the scum not yet voting will be able to hammer it for a town loss.
Doesn't this miss the dichotomy-viable solution:
DV, Proph, Cantrip
Just wondering about that.
------------
A voting order... Hmm. I'm not enthused by the selection of people who think it is a good idea. But the big thing for me is how it gets organized... Randomized might be better in that respect than going off of what someone says, so that noone has to post readwalls. Just based on averaging a bunch of what people have said, the vote order list would look something like:
Terry
Brinatoo/Shadow/AG
Brinatoo/Shadow/AG
Brinatoo/Shadow/AG
Mindreaver/Osieorb18/D_V
Mindreaver/Osieorb18/D_V
Mindreaver/Osieorb18/D_V
Proph
Silver/Rhand/Cantrip
Silver/Rhand/Cantrip
Silver/Rhand/Cantrip
Vaimes
@Rhand: Can you explain your current read of me? In particular, is it just based off the first half of the game?
In reality, and I'm only spoiling this because I really liked Rhand's answer to the question, we're at the same 50/50 that keeping this group and adding one more ends up being. So if we decide to add Cantrip, for instance, we're 50/50 about whether that quest passes with 1 fail or loses completely. It's statistically the same as getting rid of "Mindreaver/Proph" and adding "Shadow/D_V". The only hazard is, if it's really Rhand that's the scum. Then we've left the scum on the quest and added a second scum in shadow/D_V. And it won't matter if that last player is scum or not.
So the more I think about it, the more I either want to remove Proph/Me/Rhand, and go for Cantrip/D_V/(Terry/Brin/Osi ???) solution, which seems risky; or go for not trying to figure out the one fail in the last five, and just find 1 more town to get the win. I think we're closer there.
Groups 4 and 5 are 6 people each; and we have a 5 person team that is currently generating 1 fail. As long as we are sure to add town to that group, and it passes, we can send the exact same group a second time.
We also CAN force the second group by where we've landed in the rotation. SOOOO, I think what we should decide is whether we let D_V fill the void with Cantrip; or we'd rather pass and force Brinatoo to pass the group + D_V. If he refuses and nominates another group we can get AG to do it, Osi to do it, then Shadow. But if it makes it that far, we're probably screwed because we'd HAVE to vote yes for Silver's proposal (sans Silver) to not lose.
Yeah, now that I look at that list, I'm a little worried actually. Silver -> Vaimes -> Me -> proph -> Rhand. That sucks. We probably shouldn't pass if we can avoid it.
Three different groups.
Vaimes, Rhand, Mindreaver, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467 + Cantrip
Vaimes, Rhand, Mindreaver, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467 + Cantrip - Rhand + Osie
Vaimes, Rhand, Mindreaver, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467 + Cantrip - Proph + Osie
I think group one is the best.