Hey DV, if you're actually scum trying to get back at me for pocketing you in Trigger Happy, I promise not to be super salty about it later.
The only way I see you as scum here is if you're trying to tie us together in case you go down, but given that you started out the Day scumreading me - in addition to the number of people who find me suspect for my ~180~ - I kind of doubt it you'd bother faking changing your mind on me.
@DV: Ok, so ONE whole person commented on it, and I missed it. Point still stands: you did NOT start or ensure Zomg's lynch.
I love when a player I suspect mike-drops and walks off because it just cements my read further. Rather than actually responding, you found one little aspect and "blew up" over it. And "you are clearly to blinded by something IDK what"? Normally a player would voice suspicions of me being scum right about now. You think I'm town purposefully misrepresenting the truth? Why? Unlike some people, I don't lie whenever I feel like it then take credit because it didn't happen to blow up in my face. Except, oh wait, it IS blowing up in your face.
AND actually PRO TIP tell me what the case on ZOMG was then.
If you remove what I developed. Tell me what the case on him was.
Please.
And of course, after the fake blowup comes the inevitable retraction and indignant questioning. It's not a "case"; I already told you what it was: a combination of Rod's catch of Zomg answering a question not meant for him and my highlighting his scummy activity (or lack thereof) in the next post. That combination started the wagon, and he dominoed downhill from there. I wouldn't have been examining Zomg's activity, though, had it not been for Rhand's calling out in 288 of Zomg's T/S list, so he was instrumental.
You claim that you started Zomg's lynch, but you literally sat back for two days after making a one-line attack that Zomg dismissed, then were conveniently--suddenly--online to join the wagon in a "prime" spot. No additional reasoning, nothing but a naked vote. There was no concern with Zomg's response to you, and no action taken because of it. If you were really pushing his case, why didn't you post during those two days? I think it's because it wasn't a serious attack. At least, not until you saw the wagon forming; how convenient that you just happened to be on right at that time.
Also Maybe I was busy and didn't have time to read the game.
Like your attack is so juvenile I really don't even know how to respond to it.
Yeah, maybe you were busy. And if that was the case, my bad, but Zomg replied to you very shortly after you "accused" him, and you did nothing until momentum started forming against him. Could be coincidental, but your vote timing and trying to claim his wagon suggests otherwise.
Quote from DV »
• I'm not suggesting that you should find DV scum for lying. I'm questioning why you would so readily accept his claim retraction in 703 as truth when he's lied so consistently.
Yeah but have I lied about anything important? Why does lying to lynch a scum = to not trust worthy. What even is your logic here. Defend the argument please because I'm not seeing the connection at all.
I'm not attacking your lies. Yes, town lie all the time. For good reason. I'm questioning why Vaimes is so eager and willing to believe you in this case when you've lied frequently in the game.
Quote from DV »
The reason you asked for a name claim was because of how Zomg responded to your neutral claim?
YES?
How is that not clear?
Oh, oh, is it my birthday? I literally have to run out the door, but I'll be back to snap this assertion in half.
And of course, after the fake blowup comes the inevitable retraction and indignant questioning. Smile It's not a "case"; I already told you what it was: a combination of Rod's catch of Zomg answering a question not meant for him and my highlighting his scummy activity (or lack thereof) in the next post. That combination started the wagon, and he dominoed downhill from there. I wouldn't have been examining Zomg's activity, though, had it not been for Rhand's calling out in 288 of Zomg's T/S list, so he was instrumental.
That isn't a case.
Answer the question.
WHAT WAS THE CASE.
K fine. I'll go over the rest of your BS case. Cause I know you're wrong.
I was actually thinking of directing the Jailer for confirmation purposes, and then I thought "what if there's a scum Watcher??" but eh, that's unlikely.
Anyway, Rod's a good target, since near-universal townread and he's Vanilla.
I was actually thinking of directing the Jailer for confirmation purposes, and then I thought "what if there's a scum Watcher??" but eh, that's unlikely.
Anyway, Rod's a good target, since near-universal townread and he's Vanilla.
I love when a player I suspect mike-drops and walks off because it just cements my read further. Rather than actually responding, you found one little aspect and "blew up" over it. And "you are clearly to blinded by something IDK what"? Normally a player would voice suspicions of me being scum right about now. You think I'm town purposefully misrepresenting the truth? Why? Unlike some people, I don't lie whenever I feel like it then take credit because it didn't happen to blow up in my face. Except, oh wait, it IS blowing up in your face.
Oh I'm starting to think you are scum. But really I just think you are dense.
Its really that simple. In what way is this blowing up in my face?
I was actually thinking of directing the Jailer for confirmation purposes, and then I thought "what if there's a scum Watcher??" but eh, that's unlikely.
Anyway, Rod's a good target, since near-universal townread and he's Vanilla.
What's your read on Ophida?
Eh.
I kind of want to stubbornly keep my townread on him.
On the one hand, he was lying pretty low during the zomg kerfluffle. And his "yeah zomg is scummy for me too...but let's talk about Ghosting" post is not my favorite.
But then there's the whole VT claim, PLUS Rod more or less clearing him. Ophidia has posts like "wait how did Rod clear me???" which sounds like suspicious town.
Ok lets go over this BS cantripmancer not in reality argument.
257 Zomg posts his T/S list
258 Ghosting responds to the list. Doesn't take issue with it defends himself.
259 Rodemy says nothing about the list
260 Rodemy and Ghosting start fighting.
266 I call both Ghosting and Shadow scum. I'm looking for scum partners of Zomg and waiting for responses at this point.
267 Ghosting points out the wagon is on him
Which is in stark contrast to what you are painting Cantrip you were saying Zomg was the only lynch of day one he clearly wasn't.
274 Ophidia also states a wagon is different that the picture you paint.
280 I propose name claim because at this point I'm tired of waiting for people to make connections to Zomg and want him lynched.
288 Rhand does indeed go after Zomg
295 I chime in
301 Rodemy isn't even reading Zomg as scummy go look at that post.
304 Rodemy comments on me calling Zomg scum and not voting which to be fair I should have done(And thought I did)
307 You agree with Rhand
321 Rodemy votes Ophida
322 Ophidia responds with a OMGUS vote
337 Scarbo votes Ophida
Note:
Players will not be prodded until the 3rd of January due to holidays. If someone didn't post their v/la status and is still mia come that day, they will be immediately prodded. All other situations will follow normal standards of posting once every three IRL days. I'll probably make a deadline for 2 weeks after the 3rd, maybe.
Vote count is this at 347. Which is starkly different than what you are painting the picture of.
Rodemy gets mad and votes ZOMG for literally the most petty reason I have seen.
416 Scarbo votes Cantripmancer
423 Vaimes votes Zomg because of my neutral claim. Literally the scummy part he sees of Zomg is because of my neutral claim.
429 YOU RE VOTE ZOMG because of my neutral claim.
430 Rodemy comments that Zomg's vote on me because of my neutral claim is way to convient.
442 Zomg defends his neutral push.
452 SHADOW votes Zomg because he hates neutral pushes day one.
Then Zomg claims and I counter name claim him and he implodes 100%.
I don't feel like looking, but d_v did you say it was one shot?
The kill was.
And no jailer should go for kill tonight IMO.
Cool. Jailer, go for me.
That way we can prove d_v isn't lying
Jailor dies toNight, d_v is scum.
Simple.
Okay break time.
Why would the Jailer dying tonight = me being scum.
Think hard about that one.
Chances of scum killing jailor tonight are 1 in (***** i forgot how many people are in this game...) but it's unlikely. Since you are the only person who knows who the jailor is, it's highly likely you told scumteam.
You can argue that they could get lucky, but honestly...
This early i would put money on inside info.
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I don't feel like looking, but d_v did you say it was one shot?
The kill was.
And no jailer should go for kill tonight IMO.
Cool. Jailer, go for me.
That way we can prove d_v isn't lying
Jailor dies toNight, d_v is scum.
Simple.
Okay break time.
Why would the Jailer dying tonight = me being scum.
Think hard about that one.
Chances of scum killing jailor tonight are 1 in (***** i forgot how many people are in this game...) but it's unlikely. Since you are the only person who knows who the jailor is, it's highly likely you told scumteam.
You can argue that they could get lucky, but honestly...
This early i would put money on inside info.
That's literally the stupidest WIFOM argument I've ever heard.
Why would the Jailer dying tonight = me being scum.
Think hard about that one.
Chances of scum killing jailor tonight are 1 in (***** i forgot how many people are in this game...) but it's unlikely. Since you are the only person who knows who the jailor is, it's highly likely you told scumteam.
You can argue that they could get lucky, but honestly...
This early i would put money on inside info.
That's literally the stupidest WIFOM argument I've ever heard.
Its not wifom tho. It's logic.
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But you said that you are town because you caught Zomg.
No.
That's not what I'm saying here.
If Rodemy and Cantrip did it that's chill too because I think they are both town.
Well cantrip less now.
Then what are you trying to say here?
No I'm trying to say that the sky is red.
I've been doing some thinking on the Rodemy plan with the Jailer. I think its a bad plan.
I think we are wasting the kill which we should use. If two or more kills show up tomorrow then we know that I was telling the truth.
And then people should decide on another person to die as well, because the reason I knew the Vig wasn't going to shoot Rodemy is the reason I know that person will die.
Your entire argument with cantrip is about how your efforts lead to the lynch of zom. Of course it matters who did it, because that is your whole point, and the main reason you claim yourself to be town.
Spent a bunch of time reading, so that I would have some ability to post while things happen instead of falling behind and not feeling like I'm understanding whats going on.
DV is town, Rodemy is town, pretty much have to be. I guess it's ever so slightly possible they are both scum but I'm ignoring that.
Scum!DV wouldn't claim being jailed. No chance, he knows where the kill went and failed to hit, so saying he claimed being jailed as an excuse for a fizzled NK doesn't make sense. Scum!DV never claims being jailed at all, there is no benefit to doing so, and if he wanted some excuse for the failed kill Doc or RB fits the bill fine.
Scum!Rod doesn't try to force this lynch through so hard. After seeing that DV's wagon is not getting traction, he would move to a secondary scumread, and throw DV into that pile of "Scum reads to get back to later." and only do so when needed to divert.
I'm down with the Jailor targeting Rodemy tonight. Either Rod gets to trust DV and move on, or the Jailor ends up dead and we lynch DV.
That was me prodding at myself to reread. Those two townreads were the only reads I was confident in /without/ rereading. It has happened before, and it will continue to happen whenever I play long games. I lose interest, I forget all but my strongest reads. And more often than not, my strongest reads are townreads.
Can anyone back Vaimes up on this self-meta? Is this normal?
Quote from Vaimes »
Are you forgetting the part where Rod CC'd DV's nameclaim at EoD1? /That/ is what started the dichotomy. But then DV revoked his claim, so I revoked the supposed dichotomy.
Um...didn't you say:
People seem to forget that the only was I was considering DV to be scum was if there was more than one scumteam.
I know there are some typos in there, but I thought you were saying that the only reason you were considering DV to be scum was if there was more than one scumteam. But you were also considering him to be scum because of Rod's CC, even if there's only one mafia? I feel like you're contradicting yourself.
Quote from Vaimes »
Because I see his actions as several poor gambits that kinda worked out, but also are getting him lots of negative attention.
So he's getting negative attention for lying, so you think it's likely he's telling the truth? But he's not voicing that he views his lies as mistakes (quite the opposite), so there's no remorse, so it doesn't make sense to me that you would think that this particular time he's telling the truth. If he thinks that lying is working, then maybe one more lie will also work. I just don't see how you can reliably say "oh, but THIS time DV's telling the truth!"
Quote from Vaimes »
I don't think I've ever consciously tried to be "on the record" for anything as either alignment without actually saying the words "for the record." And a lot of my scumplay is improv. I don't really plan or strategize (unless I believe myself to be the strongest player on the team, in which case I turn into a control freak), because I think it makes me look townier. You are free to disregard this self-meta dump until one of us is dead.
Again, can anyone who's played with Vaimes confirm that this is standard for Vaimes?
The reason you asked for a name claim was because of how Zomg responded to your neutral claim?
YES?
How is that not clear?
Well, I see that as problematic, seeing as how you asked for a name claim in 280, but didn't claim neutral until 295. So you couldn't have used Zomg's response to your neutral claim to drive your name claim request, because you hadn't claimed neutral yet! You're making stuff up on the fly, and now you're getting caught in your own inconsistencies. Boom!
Quote from DV »
Your assertion that you started Zomg's wagon is ludicrous. Rod called him out on a bad choice, and I highlighted his scummy lack of content. Heck, I would even say that Rhand was more instrumental than you were by being the first to show what was bad with Zomg's T/S list. Your one-line toss-off and subsequent sneak-vote was NOT why Zomg got lynched. You're trying to earn town points for something that's not there.
You're fixating on the Neutral claim and not on the counter name claim. I'm IDK.
What does IDK mean? I don't know? And how am I fixating on the counter name claim?
Quote from DV »
Disappointing to be even having this conversation I guess. Like ZOMG doesn't get lynched without me doing what I did. Period. At least not with what ever "Case" you had.
Disagree. And again, I'm not saying I had a "case" on him. I'm saying that Zomg got attacked from multiple angles--the least of which was your one-liner--and the pressure caused him to react poorly, eventually leading to his lynch.
And of course, after the fake blowup comes the inevitable retraction and indignant questioning. Smile It's not a "case"; I already told you what it was: a combination of Rod's catch of Zomg answering a question not meant for him and my highlighting his scummy activity (or lack thereof) in the next post. That combination started the wagon, and he dominoed downhill from there. I wouldn't have been examining Zomg's activity, though, had it not been for Rhand's calling out in 288 of Zomg's T/S list, so he was instrumental.
That isn't a case.
Answer the question.
WHAT WAS THE CASE.
K fine. I'll go over the rest of your BS case. Cause I know you're wrong.
Ok, I'm confused. Are you asking what the case on Zomg was, or what my case on you is?
Ok lets go over this BS cantripmancer not in reality argument.
257 Zomg posts his T/S list
258 Ghosting responds to the list. Doesn't take issue with it defends himself.
259 Rodemy says nothing about the list
260 Rodemy and Ghosting start fighting.
266 I call both Ghosting and Shadow scum. I'm looking for scum partners of Zomg and waiting for responses at this point.
What? Explain how that last line works?
Quote from DV »
267 Ghosting points out the wagon is on him
Which is in stark contrast to what you are painting Cantrip you were saying Zomg was the only lynch of day one he clearly wasn't.
Whoa. When did I say there were no other lynch candidates/wagons for the Day? I said there wasn't another wagon at that point (shortly after Brinatoo's votecount in 347) to jump onto.
Quote from DV »
274 Ophidia also states a wagon is different that the picture you paint.
280 I propose name claim because at this point I'm tired of waiting for people to make connections to Zomg and want him lynched.
It's easy for you to paint this picture after the fact, but the way you go about it, you can fit this narrative to fit a lot of situations. We only have your word that this is what you were doing.
Quote from DV »
288 Rhand does indeed go after Zomg
295 I chime in
301 Rodemy isn't even reading Zomg as scummy go look at that post.
Ok? Your point?
Quote from DV »
321 Rodemy votes Ophida
322 Ophidia responds with a OMGUS vote
337 Scarbo votes Ophida
Vote count is this at 347. Which is starkly different than what you are painting the picture of.
I FREAKIN INDICATED THAT I ADJUSTED THAT VOTECOUNT FOR THE VOTES THAT WENT TO ZOMG. My point was that there was no wagon at the time that Zomg "voted" you.
Quote from DV »
Rodemy gets mad and votes ZOMG for literally the most petty reason I have seen.
Since you don't specify which post...I'm guessing you mean 355, where the wagon actually started? I love how you leave out the votes that actually formed Zomg's wagon.
Quote from DV »
416 Scarbo votes Cantripmancer
Why did you throw this in, either?
Quote from DV »
423 Vaimes votes Zomg because of my neutral claim. Literally the scummy part he sees of Zomg is because of my neutral claim.
429 YOU RE VOTE ZOMG because of my neutral claim.
Yeah, "revote", as in "was voting before, still voting".
Quote from DV »
430 Rodemy comments that Zomg's vote on me because of my neutral claim is way to convient.
442 Zomg defends his neutral push.
452 SHADOW votes Zomg because he hates neutral pushes day one.
Then Zomg claims and I counter name claim him and he implodes 100%.
I think you're reading WAY more into your importance in the process than is there. Or, more likely, you've based a lot of your town appearance on the foundation that you got Zomg lynched, and you're trying hard to make that fit. Maybe your later posts were what finally pushed Zomg to be lynched, but you DIDN'T start the wagon, didn't even push it until it looked like it was really going to fly, and I think Zomg would have been lynched anyway.
I'm actually really glad for the reread I think I might have found another scum because of it.
Ah yes, keep making those vague, mystical statements that can be used to fit whatever narrative you like down the road.
I see there are now more posts, but I have real life to attend to. The next few days are going to be iffy for me, but I'll try to come back, reread this whole thing, and try to SUMMARIZE why I think DV's scum. Sorry for the textwalls. I really was going to try not to do that this time, but...sorry.
I think the plan is dumb because I don't trust Rodemy, either, and what if the scum have a Rolecop and happened to find the Jailer N1?
You guys seriously need to start playing to the town win condition in a way that I can understand so that I can start clearing people and solving this game.
I'll probably have time over the weekend to read the game, and the bank I do IT for is closed on Monday (though I still have to work) so if work volume is low, that may be additional time to read and analyze. No promises, but that's the generic plan, for now.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think the plan is dumb because I don't trust Rodemy, either, and what if the scum have a Rolecop and happened to find the Jailer N1?
You guys seriously need to start playing to the town win condition in a way that I can understand so that I can start clearing people and solving this game.
I'll probably have time over the weekend to read the game, and the bank I do IT for is closed on Monday (though I still have to work) so if work volume is low, that may be additional time to read and analyze. No promises, but that's the generic plan, for now.
...
That's weird. Why don't you trust me? I'm literally trying to figure out if d_v is lying.
Plan= not dumb.
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People seem to forget that the only was I was considering DV to be scum was if there was more than one scumteam.
I know there are some typos in there, but I thought you were saying that the only reason you were considering DV to be scum was if there was more than one scumteam. But you were also considering him to be scum because of Rod's CC, even if there's only one mafia? I feel like you're contradicting yourself.
I swear to god I'm not crazy. I feel like I've been saying the same thing over and over.
DV townread > UNLESS there's two scumteams > Rod CC's > oh look a dichotomy that I didn't include in my big post because it happened AFTER I posted it > Day 2 > DV retracts his name claim > okay no dichotomy > also no evidence of a second scumteam > townread on DV. That is how I arrived to my scumreads in 708.
I don't know where on the timeline that quote you pulled from me falls, or what the context was that prompted me to write it. I'm sure it makes sense, but again, I have a lot of posts and don't feel like digging.
Please let this be the last time anyone asks me about this. Else I'm just going to point to this post.
Quote from Cantrip »
So he's getting negative attention for lying, so you think it's likely he's telling the truth? But he's not voicing that he views his lies as mistakes (quite the opposite), so there's no remorse, so it doesn't make sense to me that you would think that this particular time he's telling the truth. If he thinks that lying is working, then maybe one more lie will also work. I just don't see how you can reliably say "oh, but THIS time DV's telling the truth!"
>reliability
>mafia
Pick one.
We could go in circles with DV's lies and what it means re: his alignment, but I'm honestly tired of it. I have laid out what I think of him. Several times. Badgering me about it isn't gonna change my answer.
On the other hand, you slapfighting with him is more likely to change my read than these "friendly reminder DV lied about everything" jabs.
I don't know if I mentioned it, but I find the way he changed his mind on me towny, since at the start of Day 2 I would say I was a fairly attractive wagon possibility. And if he's scum tying himself to me to get the mislynch when HE goes down, well, he could have just lynched me first and had another Night in scumchat to plan.
I think the plan is dumb because I don't trust Rodemy, either, and what if the scum have a Rolecop and happened to find the Jailer N1?
You guys seriously need to start playing to the town win condition in a way that I can understand so that I can start clearing people and solving this game.
I'll probably have time over the weekend to read the game, and the bank I do IT for is closed on Monday (though I still have to work) so if work volume is low, that may be additional time to read and analyze. No promises, but that's the generic plan, for now.
It's /more/ likely that that exact scenario did not happen.
You might trust Rodemy if you read the game /before/ making comments on plans that hinge on players' alignments.
It doesn't have to be Rodemy. I think it would be better to just let the Jailer randomly pick among their townreads.
The only way I see you as scum here is if you're trying to tie us together in case you go down, but given that you started out the Day scumreading me - in addition to the number of people who find me suspect for my ~180~ - I kind of doubt it you'd bother faking changing your mind on me.
I love when a player I suspect mike-drops and walks off because it just cements my read further. Rather than actually responding, you found one little aspect and "blew up" over it. And "you are clearly to blinded by something IDK what"? Normally a player would voice suspicions of me being scum right about now. You think I'm town purposefully misrepresenting the truth? Why? Unlike some people, I don't lie whenever I feel like it then take credit because it didn't happen to blow up in my face. Except, oh wait, it IS blowing up in your face.
And of course, after the fake blowup comes the inevitable retraction and indignant questioning. It's not a "case"; I already told you what it was: a combination of Rod's catch of Zomg answering a question not meant for him and my highlighting his scummy activity (or lack thereof) in the next post. That combination started the wagon, and he dominoed downhill from there. I wouldn't have been examining Zomg's activity, though, had it not been for Rhand's calling out in 288 of Zomg's T/S list, so he was instrumental.
Yeah, maybe you were busy. And if that was the case, my bad, but Zomg replied to you very shortly after you "accused" him, and you did nothing until momentum started forming against him. Could be coincidental, but your vote timing and trying to claim his wagon suggests otherwise.
I'm not attacking your lies. Yes, town lie all the time. For good reason. I'm questioning why Vaimes is so eager and willing to believe you in this case when you've lied frequently in the game.
Oh, oh, is it my birthday? I literally have to run out the door, but I'll be back to snap this assertion in half.
That isn't a case.
Answer the question.
WHAT WAS THE CASE.
K fine. I'll go over the rest of your BS case. Cause I know you're wrong.
Cantimancer isn't even scum hunting he's just arguing with me over this.
Like this is actually a waste of time and I need to just let me ego go here.
Doesn't actually matter we caught scum GG bois.
I don't feel like looking, but d_v did you say it was one shot?
The kill was.
And no jailer should go for kill tonight IMO.
This sounds like someone who can't argue and expose too much of himself.
Vote D_V
Cool. Jailer, go for me.
That way we can prove d_v isn't lying
Jailor dies toNight, d_v is scum.
Simple.
Okay break time.
Why would the Jailer dying tonight = me being scum.
Anyway, Rod's a good target, since near-universal townread and he's Vanilla.
What's your read on Ophida?
Actually I'll just ask this directly. What does this even mean?
Oh I'm starting to think you are scum. But really I just think you are dense.
Its really that simple. In what way is this blowing up in my face?
I literally can't be scum.
This sentence just completely dismisses Cantrip's argument.
You literally said that his words don't matter because "we" caught Cantrip as scum, and proceeds to not vote Cantrip.
And then you said "GG bois" which just sounds like you want the day to end.
How is this not scummy behavior?
I kind of want to stubbornly keep my townread on him.
On the one hand, he was lying pretty low during the zomg kerfluffle. And his "yeah zomg is scummy for me too...but let's talk about Ghosting" post is not my favorite.
But then there's the whole VT claim, PLUS Rod more or less clearing him. Ophidia has posts like "wait how did Rod clear me???" which sounds like suspicious town.
THATS NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL.
We caught scum IE ******* Zomg. So it doesn't matter who did it in a sense the town is up one.
But you said that you are town because you caught Zomg.
257 Zomg posts his T/S list
258 Ghosting responds to the list. Doesn't take issue with it defends himself.
259 Rodemy says nothing about the list
260 Rodemy and Ghosting start fighting.
266 I call both Ghosting and Shadow scum. I'm looking for scum partners of Zomg and waiting for responses at this point.
267 Ghosting points out the wagon is on him
Which is in stark contrast to what you are painting Cantrip you were saying Zomg was the only lynch of day one he clearly wasn't.
274 Ophidia also states a wagon is different that the picture you paint.
280 I propose name claim because at this point I'm tired of waiting for people to make connections to Zomg and want him lynched.
288 Rhand does indeed go after Zomg
295 I chime in
301 Rodemy isn't even reading Zomg as scummy go look at that post.
304 Rodemy comments on me calling Zomg scum and not voting which to be fair I should have done(And thought I did)
307 You agree with Rhand
321 Rodemy votes Ophida
322 Ophidia responds with a OMGUS vote
337 Scarbo votes Ophida
Vote count is this at 347. Which is starkly different than what you are painting the picture of.
Rodemy gets mad and votes ZOMG for literally the most petty reason I have seen.
416 Scarbo votes Cantripmancer
423 Vaimes votes Zomg because of my neutral claim. Literally the scummy part he sees of Zomg is because of my neutral claim.
429 YOU RE VOTE ZOMG because of my neutral claim.
430 Rodemy comments that Zomg's vote on me because of my neutral claim is way to convient.
442 Zomg defends his neutral push.
452 SHADOW votes Zomg because he hates neutral pushes day one.
Then Zomg claims and I counter name claim him and he implodes 100%.
No.
That's not what I'm saying here.
If Rodemy and Cantrip did it that's chill too because I think they are both town.
Well cantrip less now.
Think hard about that one.
Chances of scum killing jailor tonight are 1 in (***** i forgot how many people are in this game...) but it's unlikely. Since you are the only person who knows who the jailor is, it's highly likely you told scumteam.
You can argue that they could get lucky, but honestly...
This early i would put money on inside info.
That's literally the stupidest WIFOM argument I've ever heard.
Then what are you trying to say here?
Its not wifom tho. It's logic.
No I'm trying to say that the sky is red.
I've been doing some thinking on the Rodemy plan with the Jailer. I think its a bad plan.
I think we are wasting the kill which we should use. If two or more kills show up tomorrow then we know that I was telling the truth.
And then people should decide on another person to die as well, because the reason I knew the Vig wasn't going to shoot Rodemy is the reason I know that person will die.
MORE REASON TO DO IT
Avoiding my question yet again.
Your entire argument with cantrip is about how your efforts lead to the lynch of zom. Of course it matters who did it, because that is your whole point, and the main reason you claim yourself to be town.
How is denouncing your own argument not scummy?
O_o.
If there is a Jailer and they're the next NK flip, then uh. That looks really, really bad.
This could more or less function as a soft Copcheck on DV.
But it really should be Rod so that it's more reliable.
WOO NELLY, RODEMY ISN'T CRAZY.
Vaimes i still think you are scum though. ♡
I forgot to add that what i quoted sounds like coaching.
Just sayin.
Well yeah I was approaching it that way.
Then I realized the argument could be made that I have my scum buddy do it.
Tell you what. We should all vote on someone for the Jailer to kill. If the Jailer decides NOT to do that they should go for rodemy.
That seem better?
So we should vote on somebody to lynch with 2 people to kill possibly.
It still shouldn't be Rodemy.
We all agree Rodemy is town right?
I think we should vote on somebody that seems slightly scummy or something. And see if we can block the night kill.
IDK that still leaves the opportunity for me to be scum, IDK I just hate wasting a possibly nightkill block.
Is we plan on Rodemy. Scum team kills me off. Cool auto confirmed.
Which is fine for me to die but then we've wasted a PR for the night.
No.
You lied all day yesterday, you don't get a say in this. It's the best way to decide if you are telling the truth or lying.
You kinda brought this on yourself.
That kill can be saved.
An extra kill toNight doesn't mean ***** for your credibility.
WHY THE HELL DID YOU POST THE JAILORS READS LIST.
._____.
DV is town, Rodemy is town, pretty much have to be. I guess it's ever so slightly possible they are both scum but I'm ignoring that.
Scum!DV wouldn't claim being jailed. No chance, he knows where the kill went and failed to hit, so saying he claimed being jailed as an excuse for a fizzled NK doesn't make sense. Scum!DV never claims being jailed at all, there is no benefit to doing so, and if he wanted some excuse for the failed kill Doc or RB fits the bill fine.
Scum!Rod doesn't try to force this lynch through so hard. After seeing that DV's wagon is not getting traction, he would move to a secondary scumread, and throw DV into that pile of "Scum reads to get back to later." and only do so when needed to divert.
I'm down with the Jailor targeting Rodemy tonight. Either Rod gets to trust DV and move on, or the Jailor ends up dead and we lynch DV.
Your vote feels like its missing the greater context of today's proceedings. Do you think DV was jailed?
And your reaction made me think that the Jailer left themselves out of it > DV outed the Jailer.
But no, there's thirteen names on there, so. No big deal?
---
DV, you're the Jailer's top townread?
That list easily helps scum find the jailor.
Um...didn't you say:
People seem to forget that the only was I was considering DV to be scum was if there was more than one scumteam.
I know there are some typos in there, but I thought you were saying that the only reason you were considering DV to be scum was if there was more than one scumteam. But you were also considering him to be scum because of Rod's CC, even if there's only one mafia? I feel like you're contradicting yourself.
So he's getting negative attention for lying, so you think it's likely he's telling the truth? But he's not voicing that he views his lies as mistakes (quite the opposite), so there's no remorse, so it doesn't make sense to me that you would think that this particular time he's telling the truth. If he thinks that lying is working, then maybe one more lie will also work. I just don't see how you can reliably say "oh, but THIS time DV's telling the truth!"
Again, can anyone who's played with Vaimes confirm that this is standard for Vaimes?
Well, I see that as problematic, seeing as how you asked for a name claim in 280, but didn't claim neutral until 295. So you couldn't have used Zomg's response to your neutral claim to drive your name claim request, because you hadn't claimed neutral yet! You're making stuff up on the fly, and now you're getting caught in your own inconsistencies. Boom!
What does IDK mean? I don't know? And how am I fixating on the counter name claim?
Disagree. And again, I'm not saying I had a "case" on him. I'm saying that Zomg got attacked from multiple angles--the least of which was your one-liner--and the pressure caused him to react poorly, eventually leading to his lynch.
Ok, I'm confused. Are you asking what the case on Zomg was, or what my case on you is?
Two mike-drops in one page; you're on a roll! But I *am* scumhunting. By proving that you're full of it.
Unvote, Vote DV
What? Explain how that last line works?
Whoa. When did I say there were no other lynch candidates/wagons for the Day? I said there wasn't another wagon at that point (shortly after Brinatoo's votecount in 347) to jump onto.
It's easy for you to paint this picture after the fact, but the way you go about it, you can fit this narrative to fit a lot of situations. We only have your word that this is what you were doing.
Ok? Your point?
Why did you even include these?
I FREAKIN INDICATED THAT I ADJUSTED THAT VOTECOUNT FOR THE VOTES THAT WENT TO ZOMG. My point was that there was no wagon at the time that Zomg "voted" you.
Since you don't specify which post...I'm guessing you mean 355, where the wagon actually started? I love how you leave out the votes that actually formed Zomg's wagon.
Why did you throw this in, either?
Yeah, "revote", as in "was voting before, still voting".
I think you're reading WAY more into your importance in the process than is there. Or, more likely, you've based a lot of your town appearance on the foundation that you got Zomg lynched, and you're trying hard to make that fit. Maybe your later posts were what finally pushed Zomg to be lynched, but you DIDN'T start the wagon, didn't even push it until it looked like it was really going to fly, and I think Zomg would have been lynched anyway.
I've caught you, and now others are starting to see it, too. And now you're resorting to personal attacks?
Come again? Explain this.
Ah yes, keep making those vague, mystical statements that can be used to fit whatever narrative you like down the road.
I see there are now more posts, but I have real life to attend to. The next few days are going to be iffy for me, but I'll try to come back, reread this whole thing, and try to SUMMARIZE why I think DV's scum. Sorry for the textwalls. I really was going to try not to do that this time, but...sorry.
You guys seriously need to start playing to the town win condition in a way that I can understand so that I can start clearing people and solving this game.
I'll probably have time over the weekend to read the game, and the bank I do IT for is closed on Monday (though I still have to work) so if work volume is low, that may be additional time to read and analyze. No promises, but that's the generic plan, for now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
...
That's weird. Why don't you trust me? I'm literally trying to figure out if d_v is lying.
Plan= not dumb.
I swear to god I'm not crazy. I feel like I've been saying the same thing over and over.
DV townread > UNLESS there's two scumteams > Rod CC's > oh look a dichotomy that I didn't include in my big post because it happened AFTER I posted it > Day 2 > DV retracts his name claim > okay no dichotomy > also no evidence of a second scumteam > townread on DV. That is how I arrived to my scumreads in 708.
I don't know where on the timeline that quote you pulled from me falls, or what the context was that prompted me to write it. I'm sure it makes sense, but again, I have a lot of posts and don't feel like digging.
Please let this be the last time anyone asks me about this. Else I'm just going to point to this post.
>reliability
>mafia
Pick one.
We could go in circles with DV's lies and what it means re: his alignment, but I'm honestly tired of it. I have laid out what I think of him. Several times. Badgering me about it isn't gonna change my answer.
On the other hand, you slapfighting with him is more likely to change my read than these "friendly reminder DV lied about everything" jabs.
I don't know if I mentioned it, but I find the way he changed his mind on me towny, since at the start of Day 2 I would say I was a fairly attractive wagon possibility. And if he's scum tying himself to me to get the mislynch when HE goes down, well, he could have just lynched me first and had another Night in scumchat to plan.
You might trust Rodemy if you read the game /before/ making comments on plans that hinge on players' alignments.
It doesn't have to be Rodemy. I think it would be better to just let the Jailer randomly pick among their townreads.